View Full Version : Footpath-only way of bypassing the Whites?
Yamagame
12-02-2008, 16:19
I'm writing a term-paper on the Whites, and one possible alternative I am exploring in the paper (though is something that would never happen--so don't worry), would be to reroute the AT around the Whites.
I'm curious if there is a way to reroute a journey on the AT to avoid the crowds and regulations of the Whites, while still continuing the journey on foot.
Hypothetically, would it be possible to link currently existing "valley" non- AT trails in the Whites to the AT? Does anyone know of a blue blaze route that would allow a NOBO hiker to go from Kinsman Notch to Gorham, or even connect the trail from further distances, such as Glencliff to South Arm Road?
Thanks for your help!
Liz
GAME '08
Sounds like you need the AMC maps (which I don't have in front of me.) I know of a number of east-west trails that parallel the Kancamagus highway (both to the north, in the Pemi Wilderness, and to the south, in the Passaconaway range) that could bypass the AT between the Franconia Ridge and Crawford Notch. I'm not so sure about the blue-blaze possibilities heading North from Crawford Notch.
I'm not sure you can entirely bypass the Whites using blue-blazes. You may need to step onto the AT (or do a road walk) from time to time. For example, walking "northbound" off of Mt. Kinsman, arriving at Rte. 93, you might need to follow the Kanc for a bit to catch one of the trails leading into the Pemi wilderness that will take you east. I suppose you could hike up Flume Slide trail and then follow that ridgeline south (if you were feeling very masochistic.)
I suppose you could hike up Flume Slide trail and then follow that ridgeline south (if you were feeling very masochistic.)
I walked up the Flume Slide Trail ONCE back in 1996.
I had to do many veggie belays, had trouble finding the blue blazes as at some points the trail went STRAIGHT UP (I kid you not), etc.
Of all the hiking I've done, that was by far the worse "trail" I've ever hiked. Heck, if it wasn't for the blazes, it would never be classified as a trail. :)
Digger'02
12-02-2008, 17:40
There are so many trails through there.....
Regulations? Crowds? Come to the Smokies.
Johnny Thunder
12-02-2008, 17:53
Road Walk?
The Old Fhart
12-02-2008, 18:06
By the Whites I assume you're referring to the above treeline route the A.T. takes through the WMNF. The WMNF (see map) (http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/maps/location_map.php) is 770,000 acres and many of the rules governing what you can or can't do on the A.T. in that section would apply to the rest of the WMNF as well. The rules prohibiting above treeline camping are there for hiker safety and most knowledgeable hikers don't have trouble with the rules because they understand the rules are there to protect the environment and the hikers. Assuming that other areas would have no or fewer rules isn't true. The NPS would have agreements with landowners wherever the trail would go so moving the trail would basically give you the same rules without the spectacular views. You might have less crowds but who would pay for and maintain a trail designed for a few hundred hikers per year?
The goal of the Appalachian National Scenic Trail is to have the entire trail on public, not private lands, and to use existing local trails wherever possible. To try to find a route around the Whites (WMNF) would require a huge reroute adding many miles to the A.T. and would be impractical both logistically and financially.
Perhaps a better topic for a paper would be how can you educate thru hikers to understand and appreciate the existing A.T. as well as encouraging those who can, to volunteer and help maintain the trail.:-?
berninbush
12-02-2008, 18:15
Yamagame doesn't seem to be advocating re-routing the AT. She said it was one option she was "exploring" (not advocating) in a school paper. A good academic paper on a problem examines all possible solutions and gives the pros and cons, even solutions the author thinks are a bad idea.
Her question was not about building and maintaining an alternate route either... she was just asking whether such a route already exists.
If some of the existing regulations are designed to protect the environment and hikers above tree line, then an alternate route that went through valleys below treeline by definition would not have the same regulations, even if it was still on National Forest land.
The Old Fhart
12-02-2008, 18:58
berninbush-"Yamagame doesn't seem to be advocating re-routing the AT. She said it was one option she was "exploring" (not advocating) in a school paper."Understood. And I'm just "exploring" the implications of such a plan.;)
Slo-go'en
12-02-2008, 21:28
It can sorta of be done. The main problem is between Kinsman notch the Pemi. One would need to do about a 20 mile road walk or hitch. There is no other way to get between Kinsman Notch and Franconia Notch, other than by the AT.
First, one would head south on 112 from Kinsman notch to 118 and head into Lincon, then up the Kang to the Wilderness trail head in the Pemi.
Now you take the Wilderness trail over to the old Desolation shelter site and pick up the Nacy Brook trail. This will eventually bring you out to 302. At 302, head north for a mile or so and get on the Davis Path. When you get to Resolution shelter, you have a choice. One can continue on the Davis Path and come out close to Pinkham Notch or take the Stairs trail over to Rocky Branch. When you come out to RT 16, go south a mile or so and get on the Halls Ledge trail. This will put you on the east side of the Carter-Mariah range. After the Halls Ledge trail, you can connect a bunch of other trails to eventually come out on RT2, a few miles east of where the AT crosses.
All in all, it could be an interesting hike, but it sure would add a whole lot of miles to the trip! Not counting the road walk, I'd guess it'd about double distance the AT takes. Keeping track of which way to go in that maze of trails would be a challenge too!
Now you take the Wilderness trail over to the old Desolation shelter site and pick up the Nacy Brook trail. This will eventually bring you out to 302. At 302, head north for a mile or so and get on the Davis Path. When you get to Resolution shelter, you have a choice. One can continue on the Davis Path and come out close to Pinkham Notch or take the Stairs trail over to Rocky Branch. When you come out to RT 16, go south a mile or so and get on the Halls Ledge trail. This will put you on the east side of the Carter-Mariah range. After the Halls Ledge trail, you can connect a bunch of other trails to eventually come out on RT2, a few miles east of where the AT crosses.
Another alternative would be to descend off Mt. Washington via Tuckermans, and back up onto the Carter-Moriah ridge via 19-Mile Brook (after a short roadwalk north on Rte 16.) Or... head down off Mt. Madison via any of about 1000 blue-blazes, and back onto the C-M ridge via that blue-blaze out of Gorham.
Of course, one could skip the C-M ridge entirely, but I wouldn't. The views are spectacular, and the woods near Moriah summit have that truly primordial feeling...
PS, to Mags: veggie belays... LOL! No doubt, the descent off Flume slide certainly rates as one of my most... err... exciting and interesting and... just plain brain-dead White Mountain expeditions.
Slo-go'en
12-02-2008, 22:29
PS, to Mags: veggie belays... LOL! No doubt, the descent off Flume slide certainly rates as one of my most... err... exciting and interesting and... just plain brain-dead White Mountain expeditions.
Ever do Owls Head in the Pemi? Its actually a bushwack to the top, straight up a rock slide. Talk about crazy :eek: There's also a trail up in Dixville Notch which goes straight up a crack in the cliff. I butt slid down that one!
Ever do Owls Head in the Pemi? Its actually a bushwack to the top, straight up a rock slide. Talk about crazy :eek: There's also a trail up in Dixville Notch which goes straight up a crack in the cliff. I butt slid down that one!
Ah..the Whites. Where I cut my backpacking teeth...
It set the bar for tough hiking!
Ever do Owls Head in the Pemi? Its actually a bushwack to the top, straight up a rock slide. Talk about crazy :eek: There's also a trail up in Dixville Notch which goes straight up a crack in the cliff. I butt slid down that one!
No, but I've done the rock slide up Tripyramid, south of the Kanc, and the north side of Mt. Carrigain.
IMO, those hills are way under-rated. That's fine, 'cuz the gomers will be on the AT at the usual beauty spots. Has anyone tallied the total length of non-AT trails through the Whites? I'm sure it vastly exceeds the AT proper.
PS, no offense to gomers. The AT in the Whites is gorgeous, but it gets to be a zoo on a fine summer weekend.
I know we've gotten off the original thread topic, but the Flume Slide Trail is indeed a piece of work. I made the mistake of going down it with a heavy pack in 1978 and had a terrifying time skidding down the slabs with my feet occasionally adherent to the many frisbee-sized pieces of loose rock. One of my hiking partners got injured by careening off into the woods. By comparison, the Owl's Head trail is easy. Even all of the worst trails in the Adirondacks are less dangerous than Flume Slide. By contrast, the Osseo Trail, which descends from the summit of Flume into the Pemi, is one of the best designed, best maintained trails in the Whites.
From AT @ Rte 93 to AT @ Rte 302:
Up Flume Slide, down Osseo to Pemi East Side Trail to Wilderness Trail. Then up & over Carrigain via Carrigain Notch Tr. and Signal Ridge Tr. Walk down Sawyer River road to Rte 302 (about 3 miles). Utterly gorgeous camp sites along that way, along the water... just sayin'. Oops. The east end of this hike is several miles from the AT. My bad.
OK, now back to the original topic:
From Glencliff, take Tunnel Brook Tr to the west of Moosilauke to Rte 112.
Walk 15 miles on Rte 112 through North Woodstock to the Wilderness Tr.
Wilderness Tr to Nancy Pond Tr, cross Rte 302, onto Davis Path.
Davis Path to Stairs Col Tr. to Rocky Branch Tr. to Hall's Ledge Tr.
Hall's Ledge Tr. to Bog Brook Tr. to Wild River Tr. to Hasting's Tr.
Come out on Rte 2 about 8-9 miles east of Gorham.
There are other routes which would also work, but I don't see any way around the roadwalks.
Hikerhead
12-02-2008, 23:38
Just wondering out loud....when you're hiking north out of Kinsman Notch you cross a trail heading towards a commercial cave (turns right)... is that as far as it goes? I also seem to remember another trail up on top that crosses the trail that seemed to go towards Woodstock. And also at the power line there seemed to be a trail that went underneath it. That power line looked to head towards 93 or Woodstock.
Just wondering out loud....when you're hiking north out of Kinsman Notch you cross a trail heading towards a commercial cave (turns right)... is that as far as it goes? I also seem to remember another trail up on top that crosses the trail that seemed to go towards Woodstock. And also at the power line there seemed to be a trail that went underneath it. That power line looked to head towards 93 or Woodstock.
The trail to Lost River Gorge is the Dilly Trail. There is a good view from a cliff above the Notch along this trail. From the cliff to Lost River the trail descends roughly and steeply via a notch in the cliff band.
Farther along the Kinsman Ridge, not long before Wolf Mountain, the Gordon Pond Trail descends southeast to a trailhead across from Govonis Italian Restaurant (recommended!) on Rte 112 a couple miles west of North Woodstock. The Gordon Pond trail is a very lightly used but interesting trail that passes a pond and some cascades.
The power line is a snow machine route between North Woodstock and Easton over the Kinsman Ridge. The rocky ledge on the power line where the AT crosses is impassable to snow machine. The cross ridge route bypasses the power line here just south of Eliza Brook Shelter and actually follows the A.T. for an extremely short distance.
It is possible to use the Gordon Pond trail to connect to local snowmoblile trails in North Woodstock and Lincoln. Using these snowmobile trails you can either hike to the Flume Visitors center in Franconia Notch (0.9 miles from the A.T. on the bike path) or get to Loon Mountain ski area and from there using the gravel service road and Nordic ski trails hike along the south side of the East Branch of the Pemigewasset River to a point across the river and rte 112 from the Lincoln Woods Trailhead (Wilderness Trail). You'd have the old logging railroad builders to thank for this route. These routes would require good local knowledge of various trail systems.
The power line snowmobile trail would also provide access to these routes except it crosses Bog Pond (visible from the AT) which is open water except in winter.
Tom Murphy
12-05-2008, 12:46
This might be a bit off topic but I don't understand the phrase "to avoid the crowds and regulations of the Whites".
And I don't mean to throw stones - so I hope no one gets offended....
Do thru-hikers get so accustomed to free shelters and solitude that the NH regulations are seen as an obstacle to their freedom and sharing the trail with others is a burden?
I realize that the AMC huts are very expensive but they focus our footprint above the treeline; thereby preserving the mountains for the next generation.
I have taken my son and my nieces and nephews to the huts over the years and have meet many wonderful thru-hikers but "generally" they were a clannish and somewhat elitest group.
After reading this site for a number of months, I am beginning to think it is a systematic thing rather than a reflection on the type of person who thru hikes.
What say you?
The Solemates
12-05-2008, 13:25
This might be a bit off topic but I don't understand the phrase "to avoid the crowds and regulations of the Whites".
And I don't mean to throw stones - so I hope no one gets offended....
Do thru-hikers get so accustomed to free shelters and solitude that the NH regulations are seen as an obstacle to their freedom and sharing the trail with others is a burden?
to answer your question: yes, many people fall into this category. its ridiculous.
Lone Wolf
12-05-2008, 13:29
have meet many wonderful thru-hikers but "generally" they were a clannish and somewhat elitest group.
you got that right
This might be a bit off topic but I don't understand the phrase "to avoid the crowds and regulations of the Whites".
And I don't mean to throw stones - so I hope no one gets offended....
Do thru-hikers get so accustomed to free shelters and solitude that the NH regulations are seen as an obstacle to their freedom and sharing the trail with others is a burden?
I realize that the AMC huts are very expensive but they focus our footprint above the treeline; thereby preserving the mountains for the next generation.
I have taken my son and my nieces and nephews to the huts over the years and have meet many wonderful thru-hikers but "generally" they were a clannish and somewhat elitest group.
After reading this site for a number of months, I am beginning to think it is a systematic thing rather than a reflection on the type of person who thru hikes.
What say you?
By the time they hit the Whites, entitlement is at an all-time high:)
Lone Wolf
12-05-2008, 13:32
By the time they hit the Whites, entitlement is at an all-time high:)
Whites hell! Damascus for sure
What say you?
There's bad blood that goes back a long ways between thru-hikers and the AMC. Partly it's due to the rules and regulations we all know about, partly it's due to the costly huts, tent platforms, etc. I'm sympathetic with AMC inasmuch as they do a pretty good job of managing their part of the trail. But that management can and does appear to be heavy-handed, from the POV of thru-hikers passing thru the Whites for the first (and possibly last) time. My personal "solution" to all this is to stay on blue blazes, for the most part, when I'm camping in the Whites.
I'm writing a term-paper on the Whites, and one possible alternative I am exploring in the paper (though is something that would never happen--so don't worry), would be to reroute the AT around the Whites.
I'm curious if there is a way to reroute a journey on the AT to avoid the crowds and regulations of the Whites, while still continuing the journey on foot.
Hypothetically, would it be possible to link currently existing "valley" non- AT trails in the Whites to the AT? Does anyone know of a blue blaze route that would allow a NOBO hiker to go from Kinsman Notch to Gorham, or even connect the trail from further distances, such as Glencliff to South Arm Road?
Thanks for your help!
Liz
GAME '08
Liz,
Probably one could find a way to walk around the whites without going through them on an AT hike. I can't imagine any hiker would want to though.
Consider:
You'd go from minimal road walking as it is now, to a fair a mount of road walking
you'd miss out on some of the AT's most spectacular scenery
you'd miss out on the hut experience, in my view a very positive aspect of a thru hike. You can even get free work for says at the two alpine huts.
ALL of the whites are crowded, especially along the AT
DavidNH