Pack Liner vs. Pack Cover

[chris]

A recent post by Howie has me thinking about rain covers vs. liners for this summer. While future employment might derail some or all of the current plan, I'll be on the AT for a month or more this spring/summer. After that I'll be...well, we'll see where I'll be, but right now it looks like a place that is notorious for bad weather. So, rain protection is on my mind. Currently, I use a silnylon pack cover that fits nicely over my frameless pack (Z-rest acts as a partial frame). This will be the pack that I'll be taking on the AT, but on my other thing I'll have a larger capacity pack and have to strap my sleeping pad to the outside. Umm, it will also be typically windy and above treeline.

So, after reading one of Howie's posts, I thought perhaps I would try the liner idea. Dancing Light has a 24 by 36 silnylon stuff sack that weighs about as much as my current pack cover. The advantage here would be that it would always be there and I wouldn't have to worry about taking it on and off repeatedly. It would also be better in high wind situations and in bushwacking (not major concerns for the first part of the summer). I'm unsure if my liner will fit over the larger pack with the sleeping pad on the outside.

The downside is that the pack itself gets wet, as will part of the sleeping pad, when it rains. I also have to shell out another $20 plus shipping. I've heard of people using trash compactor bags as liners, but have no experience with them. A third downside is that the stuff in the external pockets gets wet, but this isn't a big deal as most of what I have in there can take it. A fourth downside is that when I go to sleep, I like to put my pack under my feet, which I can't do if the pack is soaked.

Please chime in with any thoughts on pack covers vs. liners, or other ways of keeping the contents of one's pack dry during a rainy time. I thought about a poncho like the Packa, but because of potential high winds in the later half of the summer, I'd rather use a jacket.

[Moon Monster]

I've used trash compactor bags. In my pack, I used three and could have used a fourth on my AT thru-hike. So, that's about 5-600 miles each for me. A box of four costs $3-5. They did get ragged and holey on me, but being inside the pack it was never a risk as long as I replaced them every so often. I have had a pair of silnylon shell mittens get chewed up inside my pack before. I personally would then be leery about spending 20 bucks on a silnylon bag as a liner--constant motion all day could wear some holes in it. Compactor bags are much cheaper as disposable items.

I have heard of people spraying the DWR finish products on their packs. That won't make the packs themselves totally water-tight, but when coupled with a liner, it may help reduce the amount of water weight the pack will soak up from long rains--and may let you still use it under your feet at night.

Otherwise, you have all the other considerations I've thought of before already laid out.

[firefly]

I gave up on pack covers and went back to the old garbage bag inside the stuff sac method. I use silnylon stuff bags and I add the garbage bag to the sac that holds my sleeping bag and to the sac that holds my clothes. This works well for me because the packs I use do not soak up alot of water.

[Footslogger]

I used them both on my thru last year. Had a silnylon pack cover that worked fine ...for a while. As some of you know, we had an abundance of rain last year on the trail. After hours of constant downpour even the best of pack covers will leak. I found something called a "trash compactor bag" made out of heavy duty plastic. It's sort of a turbo version of a tall kitchen trash bag. Anyway, once I lined my pack with one of those I never again had any problems with water getting inside my pack.

Personally, I will never hike again without a pack liner. Often the rain isn't coming down hard enough (or so it seems) to stop and get out your pack cover. By the time you break down and dig out the pack cover the outside of the pack is already a bit damp. With or without the pack cover, you goods will stay dry if you have a good pack liner.

Just my .02

[Blue Jay]

Here's what you do. Get a pack liner, mount it to a light weight external frame (easy to make or find at a yard sale). Packs are obsolete.

[hungryhowie]

Chris,

I'm not sure if you noticed (or if I forgot to mention it in that post) but I use both a pack liner and a pack cover.

I hiked the AT in 2000, the last El-Nino year and slogged through more than 100 days of rain out of the 175 that I was on the trail. Consequently, I tend to be cautious with my stuff.

I used a trash compactor bag as a pack liner while I was on the AT. I loved the fact that it worked, but it was so loud and crinkly that it I hated opening my pack or packing it up again around shelters or campsites. If I wanted to start the day early, I'd always have to fiddle with eveything in my arms, take it a ways from the shelter, dump it on the ground, and then start packing it.

After I got back from the trail, one of the first things I did was sew a pack liner. I used 1.1oz silnylon, measured the inside of my pack, and made a large stuff sac. It cost me about $5-7 and is still going strong. I love it.

I have yet to make a silnylon pack cover, but it's on the to-do list now that I just got a new pack. Up till now, I've been using a lightweight gregory pack cover (really...it only weighs about 3oz).

Here's the upside to a pack liner: You don't have to mess with putting it on. Regardless you always have at least SOME protection from the elements. I've hiked in prolonged downpours without bothering to use a pack cover and my stuff has stayed dry. Bonus. That said, the pack cover keeps the pack dry, and does provide extra security and peace of mind. If I had to chose just one, I'd probably choose a pack cover. Why? Because I think they are more effective for the same or less weight. Sure, there's that hassle of always having to stop and put it on, but it will protect for whole pack, not just what's inside.

Even so, I still use both. I'm about to redo my setup, going to be making all my stuff sacs, pack liner, and cover out of 0.9oz waterproof spinnaker nylon.

-Howie

[Cedar Tree]

The Packa is not a poncho, that's why it is Patent Pending.
Great for strong winds, and rain, and cold.
Just got back from a short 1 night trip from Clingman's Dome to Newfound Gap, stayed at Mt. Collins shelter last night. Pretty cold, and much snow on the trail. Packa worked great.
Cedar Tree

[SGT Rock]

I am very paranoid about getting stuff wet, which stems from getting stuff wet before and suffering from it. I reccomend a tripple protection scheme:

1. Sil-nylon stuff sacks for everything. they are light, strong, and waterproof. Most people already use stuff sacks inside their packs anyway to sort stuff.

2. Pack liner to put the sil-nylon bags in. About 2 ounces for a trash compactor bag that will last a long time. A lot of us already use these since they keep out water in case the pack cover fails and they are protected against some of the damage that pack covers must endure.

3. A pack cover over the pack. Right now I have a Packa which I haven't had the pleasure of trying on the trail yet, but it seems like a very good system. The pack cover and a rain jacket for 11.2 ounces.

Each system could work independantly with a chance of failure, all these working together work great and will maintain your gear's integrity despite minor failures that may happen in any one part. Currently now, the only real moisture I get is the stuff I get in due to carelessness.

[Hammock Hanger]

I use the Packa and am very happy with it. Before that I used a silnylon pack cover. Keep in mind that the liner works well if you have a silnylon or rain resitant pack. If you keep the insides dry with the trash bag but have a pack that soaks up water you will be carrying extra watr weight. Sue/HH

[MedicineMan]

I have used both and both together but now just a liner of sil-nyl, things in the outside pockets can get wet....on Monday's section hike (Spivey--->Nolichucky) we met a thru-hiking couple, he had lost his pack cover on Big Bald in big wind, later that day La AquaNa found the girls pack cover and ran up the trail to return it to her----hard to loose a liner.....my liner is is 'body' sized and can act as a emergency bivy if needed or a VBL.

[Cedar Tree]

The Packa is no longer Patent Pending.
I just received notification from my lawyer that I was awarded a U.S Patent for the Packa.
It is not a Poncho.
Cedar Tree

[Doctari]

I used a pack cover once, got my gear wetter than not using it. I now use 2 trash compactor bags, one for my sleeping bag & one for the rest of my gear. AND, all the gear I want to keep dry is in zip lock bags according to what it is: first aid & tool stuff in one, spare clothiing in another, etc. & sleeping bag is in it's stuff sack.

Doctari.

[hungryhowie]

The Packa is no longer Patent Pending.
I just received notification from my lawyer that I was awarded a U.S Patent for the Packa.
It is not a Poncho.
Cedar Tree

Congratulations on getting your patent!

-Howie

[Rain Man]

A big advantage I discovered in using a white trash compacter bag as a pack liner is that now I can actually see down in my pack. Before, it was just a dark hole.

Now, especially in daylight, but even at night with a headlamp, I can actually see what's in the bottom of my pack!!! WOOOOO WOOOOO!!!!

Definitely a three dancing banana improvement!
:banana :banana :banana
Rain Man

.

[2Ply]

I just had my first chance to use my packa. Did a 30 mile section from Woody Gap to Amicalola Park. Thursday there was light rain and the packa did great! It keep the pack dry and when needed I could slip on the jacket part or take it off as the weather changed. 3 cheers for Cedar Tree! :clap

[foodbag]

A pack cover can double as a receptacle/safe place to sort out and store loose gear while sleeping under a tarp or other floorless shelter. I empty the non-clothing contents into the cover when I empty my pack at the end of the day so that little items don't end up lost in loose leaves or debris. It makes it easier to find stuff too when it is all there at your fingertips.