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ATX-Hiker
12-06-2008, 13:57
I'm hitting trail in GA on Feb 26, might possibly leave a hair earlier 20th?. I was wanting some criticism on my cold weather gear. I've got a NF 15 degree down bag. I think I should be fine sleeping, clothing is where I need some input. Here is what I'm planning for clothing to start out.

Trail
Salomon Goretex Trail Runners
Wool Socks with liners
lightweight coolmax baselayer top and bottom
terramar thermawool superfine merino top and bottom (midweight?)
Dickies Pants coated with Nikwax or similar waterproofer (I've grown to like the fit of dickies, after wearing them for work all the time)

Also if needed
Marmot Precip Jacket and Pants
knee high gaiters
windproof balaclava
waterproof synthetic fill mitts
wool beanie

Camp/Sleep
300 weight fleece jacket and pants (under marmot precip)
fleece socks
waterproof down booties

Does this sound like enough or too little?
Should I maybe add a mid weight insulated jacket for layering?
Should I look into other/additional socks?

Thanks everybody!

daddytwosticks
12-06-2008, 14:53
I'm not a thru-hiker, but I live down here in the Southern Mountains...I belive your sleeping bag will probably not be enough even IF it's true to it's ratings. Is there enough room in the bag for you to wear that 300 wt fleece?

ATX-Hiker
12-06-2008, 14:58
Yes, I had planned on wearing the fleece in the bag on very cold nights.

Feral Bill
12-06-2008, 15:56
Beanie and balaklava?

ATX-Hiker
12-06-2008, 15:58
Beanie and balaklava?

I've got short thin hair, and I like to keep my dome warm.

rafe
12-06-2008, 15:59
I would ditch the Dickies. No cotton, ever, in winter. (A t-shirt in August is not a problem.) For winter, think layers. You have 2 base layers, good start. Add to that a windproof shell (top and bottom). Add to that a hat and gloves and neck turtle, maybe. All from synthetics (or wool, maybe.) Finally, add 1 more layer for your upper body, to go under the outer shell. A wool or synthetic flannel shirt might do. Or -- if you never, ever let it get wet -- one of those nice Montbell down vests or jackets. Mmmmm. You probably won't need this layer while hiking; your body will generate enough heat. It should be kept safe and dry and donned at camp, only. Socks should also be synthetic, and one pair reserved for camp use and sleeping.

It's all about layers -- and being able to add/remove them with minimal fuss and bother.

ATX-Hiker
12-06-2008, 16:04
I would ditch the Dickies. No cotton, ever, in winter. (A t-shirt in August is not a problem.) For winter, think layers. You have 2 base layers, good start. Add to that a windproof shell (top and bottom). Add to that a hat and gloves and neck turtle, maybe. All from synthetics (or wool, maybe.) Finally, add 1 more layer for your upper body, to go under the outer shell. A wool or synthetic flannel shirt might do. Or -- if you never, ever let it get wet -- one of those nice Montbell down vests or jackets. Mmmmm. You probably won't need this layer while hiking; your body will generate enough heat. It should be kept safe and dry and donned at camp, only. Socks should also be synthetic, and one pair reserved for camp use and sleeping.

It's all about layers -- and being able to add/remove them with minimal fuss and bother.

So would you add an outer shell in addition to the marmot precip top and bottom?

ATX-Hiker
12-06-2008, 16:06
Terrapin what does your cold weather clothing list look like?

Tinker
12-06-2008, 16:44
The Precip isn't breathable enough to hike in without creating a mess of condensation on the inside (cold weather or not). If it's not raining, sleeting, or snowing (quite likely any or all three in Feb, March, and sometimes April), you need something to break the wind (no, really! Please! :)). A windshirt might be worth carrying (Marmot Ion or equivalent). Windproof pants (any uncoated nylon pair will do) will also keep the wind from blowing away the heat from your legs without trapping sweat like the Precip will do. As mentioned in other threads, Precip will keep the rain out, but it won't let enough of your perspiration vapor out in conditions which require high exertion. Being damp when it's 50 degrees is ok. being damp when it's 15 is not.

rafe
12-06-2008, 17:47
ATX - I gave my suggestions (per your request) in the most generic form possible. I'm not up clothing brands and technology, sorry. One outer shell layer is enough. It should block wind and hopefully at least resist rain. Different shell materials have different properties, vis-a-vis breathability, rain resistance, warmth, weight, cost, etc. Choose your poison.

buckwheat
12-06-2008, 17:50
Dude,

Whatever you do, don't try to hike in those Dickies. When they get wet, and they will get wet, they will kill you.

mudhead
12-06-2008, 17:50
I've got short thin hair, and I like to keep my dome warm.

I could see this if the beanie can be worn over the balaclava.

Feral Bill
12-06-2008, 18:43
I've got short thin hair, and I like to keep my dome warm.

Ah! That makes sense.

JAK
12-06-2008, 19:22
Beanie and balaklava?
I have found better than a balaclava is a simple wool neck tube you can pull up above your ears and nose, plus a simple wool hat with ear flaps. Ver warm and light and versatile. Then you need either a hood with your rain jacket, or a hood with your wind jacket and a brimmed hat if you raingear has no hood. I used to struggle with how much thickness for hats vs rest of clothes. I've settled on even thickness everywhere, for the situations when you are wearing everything at once, but when you delayer for the other 99% of the time, you don't need to do it evenly, and if you do it unevenly you don't have to remove as much and put as much in your pack.

For a trip that starts cold and gets warmer that's a bit trickier. I would first decide on the optimal outfit for the summer hiking, and then decide what needs to be added for early spring, and then what needs to be added for late winter / early spring. Of course by moving North the extremes might not be that great.

Here are some temperatures along the way.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.1025291/k.72A0/Average_Temperatures.htm

Here is my WAGFTSOA Guide for Clothing Temperatures.
(WAGFTSOA Wild Ass Guess for the Sake of Argument)

These are typical lows and neglect climate extremes.
March - Lows to 24F and maybe wet when warmer
April - Lows to 36F and probably very wet
May - Lows to 42F and still wet
June - Lows to 50F
July - Lows to 50F (except Mt.Washington)
August - Lows to 50F (except Katahdin)

But in theory you could go very light for June, July, August assuming you were selective on the days for Mt.Washington and Katahdin. The question then becomes what extra layers to bring in April/May, and what additional extra layer for March. You might also go with a 40F sleeping bag for May onward, because 50F sleeping bags are just silly, and then those same extra clothing layers might be enough for March and April.


Well honestly I don't know but it looks like Late February and March is a completely different animal than April/May and then you will need scarcely little for most of your trip from June on. I would start with an extra set of long wool underwear, 16oz and send them home some time in early April. I would also start with a medium wool sweater that I would likely keep until early June. Perhaps some loose 200wt fleece pants that could be sent home in early May. I would definitely start with a set of light wind pants and wind jacket and perhaps keep those for the entire trip. I might start with a light but decent rain jacket, and that might go home in June, leaving just the wind layers for summer rain. Also start with wool mitts, wool hat, wool neck/face tube, and send those all home by June and picking up some light fleece beanie and gloves. Start with thick, medium, and thin wool socks and eventually send home the thick and medium and get another pair of thin. If I wanted to hike in anything cool in Summer, like a t-shirt, I wouldn't carry that from the start, even if it were light and synthetic. Honestly I'm not sure about a sleeping bag. You don't really need even a 40F bag in the last 3 months, but it wouldn't hurt to have one when you scoot up mountains if you are going really light on clothes by then. I think the fleece or the wool underwear could make a 40F bag work for April and May, but I am not sure about wearing the fleece and the wool with a 40F bag all through March, not if you get lows of 24F and extremes of who knows what. It wouldn't really make sense to carry a 30F bag all through summer though. Maybe if you don't have the summer bag yet, just start with what you have, and send it home and pickup a really nice summer bag or quilt somewhere along the way.

This is from a guy that hasn't hiked the AT of course, and I don't use a sleeping bag in summer up here either even though we get lows of 40F. That doesn't save me any weight, I just like to carry a wool blanket instead that time of year because I can get away with it. I don't know what I would wear in June, July, August. Seriously not much. Maybe make a fashion statement. That March/April looks like serious stuff though. I would ask someone that knows.

JAK
12-06-2008, 19:26
I would also start with shoes or boots that I picked specifically for hiking in wet snow,
and then send what's left of them home in June and get something for hot weather.

ATX-Hiker
12-06-2008, 19:32
I would also start with shoes or boots that I picked specifically for hiking in wet snow,
and then send what's left of them home in June and get something for hot weather.

I currently have some Salomon Gore Tex trail runner I was planning on starting in.

Should I look into some sturdier shoes, possibly lightweight boots?

Should I consider crampons like the (katahoola, katahula?) micro spikes? Is the trail known to ice over in late february?

slow
12-06-2008, 20:11
I'm hitting trail in GA on Feb 26, might possibly leave a hair earlier 20th?. I was wanting some criticism on my cold weather gear. I've got a NF 15 degree down bag. I think I should be fine sleeping, clothing is where I need some input. Here is what I'm planning for clothing to start out.

Trail
Salomon Goretex Trail Runners
Wool Socks with liners
lightweight coolmax baselayer top and bottom
terramar thermawool superfine merino top and bottom (midweight?)
Dickies Pants coated with Nikwax or similar waterproofer (I've grown to like the fit of dickies, after wearing them for work all the time)

Also if needed
Marmot Precip Jacket and Pants
knee high gaiters
windproof balaclava
waterproof synthetic fill mitts
wool beanie

Camp/Sleep
300 weight fleece jacket and pants (under marmot precip)
fleece socks
waterproof down booties

Does this sound like enough or too little?
Should I maybe add a mid weight insulated jacket for layering?
Should I look into other/additional socks?

Thanks everybody!

Ditch to bag,precip, setup.You can save 1.5 lb.

ATX-Hiker
12-06-2008, 20:15
Ditch to bag,precip, setup.You can save 1.5 lb.

Huh?

Ditch the sleeping bag? precip?

slow
12-06-2008, 23:49
Diad top,reed bottom.bag...W.M.

Money well spent.

Wags
12-07-2008, 02:14
i don't know why so many people say "OMG PRECIP DOESN'T BREATH". mine breathes just fine. in fact i was out today before the snowstorm for about 3 hours hiking and didn't sweat a bit.

every time i see a quality cold weather list it reads something similar to this:

thin base layer (top/bottom)
midweight base layer (top/bottom)
poofy layer (top. sometimes i see bottoms for camp)
shell (top/bottom)
warm socks
warm hat

Panzer1
12-07-2008, 04:24
I know you've listed a windproof balaclava and a wool beanie but I would add a baseball type cap with a good sun visor because if your hiking in snow you already get a lot of sun light reflected up from the snow, the sun visor helps to keep out the extra sun coming down from above.

Panzer

Panzer1
12-07-2008, 05:09
I would ditch the Dickies. No cotton, ever, in winter...

Yea, I would second that. The waterproofing would eventually fail and that cotton would become heavy when wet and would stay cold for a long time.

Panzer

Stir Fry
12-07-2008, 05:12
I did Ga. in April and on the trail there were still night in the teens and a few day where the highs were only in the 20's. My wife and I were in a tent in 15* bags and still felt the chill on one of the worst nights. The page says to subtract 3.5* per 1000 ft. 5* is better. For that early of a start you might want a 0* bag. You will be in the GSMNP in about 3 week or less. You could see below 0 temps at night in Feb , and Mar. at the higher elevations.

ATX-Hiker
12-07-2008, 12:04
So I should look into a 0* or 5* bag to start my trip if I'm planning on heading out Feb 26th? Would a liner in addition to my 15* work possibly?

JAK
12-07-2008, 12:43
I currently have some Salomon Gore Tex trail runner I was planning on starting in.

Should I look into some sturdier shoes, possibly lightweight boots?

Should I consider crampons like the (katahoola, katahula?) micro spikes? Is the trail known to ice over in late february?


I did Ga. in April and on the trail there were still night in the teens and a few day where the highs were only in the 20's. My wife and I were in a tent in 15* bags and still felt the chill on one of the worst nights. The page says to subtract 3.5* per 1000 ft. 5* is better. For that early of a start you might want a 0* bag. You will be in the GSMNP in about 3 week or less. You could see below 0 temps at night in Feb , and Mar. at the higher elevations.Thought I would be more specific on your gear list, just for fun. I would heed the advice about knowing exactly how cold it might get though. I wouldn't bring a 0*bag for 0* temperatures, but if there is a risk of 0* temperatures, however remote, that is what I would prepare for. Some of your stuff might be wet from rain and freezing rain the previous day also. Anyhow, to me its more about the clothing than the sleeping bag, a 20F bag for me is sufficient for 0*, but everyone has to develop and test their own system for dealing with rain and wet snow and ice followed by wind and 0F. That is the extreme I would prepare for unless I heard more from the people that have been there and done that.

Here are my specific comments on your gear. Remember that I have never been on the AT, only something that might be similar, further north but alot lower altitude. I just love the science. Anyhow, the following advice and a couple of bucks should get you a very good cup of coffee before you head up Springer Mountain...


"I've got a NF 15 degree down bag."
- Yeah, that should work. Bring that and maybe send it home in June.

"Salomon Goretex Trail Runners"
"Wool Socks with liners"
- Test that system in wet snow before you go. Will you be able to change socks without instantly soaking the new pair? Develop and test your system for walking in wet snow, 30F down to 20F. Consider including a gortex sock or vbl sock or plastic bag or neoprene sock for some extremes. Also develop and test your system for drying your socks. Also develop and test your system for walking on ice, and ice under thin snow, and slippery rocks. Not just the steep up and downs, but also the long gradual descents which can really tire you and catch you off guard. I woud not have any 2 pair the same, and have one pair of thin or medium wool knee socks, one pair of thick wool ankle socks, one pair of thin wool or poly liners, plus whatever special system you develop and test for wet snow. I would also see if there it room to switch the foam insoles with a wool felt insoles for certain conditions.[/Quote]

"lightweight coolmax baselayer top and bottom"
"terramar thermawool superfine merino top and bottom (midweight?)"
"Dickies Pants coated with Nikwax or similar waterproofer (I've grown to like the fit of dickies, after wearing them for work all the time)"
I wouldn't use coolmax as a baselayer in wet winter conditions. I would hike primarily in a hand knit wool sweater and 200wt fleece pants. When that is too hot, even after removing hat and mitts and blousing up the pant legs you can switch the pants to baselayer or your boxers. When those primary layers are not warm enough even after adding hatt and mitts and neck tube, then add your skin layers, then after than add your wind layers. If it is raining then that's different, but always alway try and keep the wool sweater on. Your baselayers can be silk or wool or polypro or polyester, but for winter they should be light but fuzzy, and snug not tight. Leave a film of air between your skin and your skin layer. For an extra emergency layer of clothing and sleepwear you might also bring long wool underwear, which weigh about 16oz. Check to see exactly how cold and windy it might be on those mountains.

"Also if needed"
"Marmot Precip Jacket and Pants"
"knee high gaiters"
"windproof balaclava"
"waterproof synthetic fill mitts"
"wool beanie"
For potentially very wet and cold and windy conditions I would bring both wind gear and rain gear. A 4-5oz light nylon jacket with or without hood(untreated), a 10oz light rain jacket (ok if it doesn't breath), and plain old brushed nylon hiking pants, but baggy enough to fit over all you other layers. The gaiters should be very light and only serve to keep snow out of your trail runners, and needs to be developed and tested as part of that system. I would not use synthetic fill mitts. Instead of what you listed I would use a knit alpaca wool hat with ear flaps, a knit alpaca wool neck tube, knit shetland wool mitts, lightweight brushed nylon overmitts. Also some sort of brimmed hat and sunglasses, in addition to the rain or wind jacket hood.

"Camp/Sleep"
"300 weight fleece jacket and pants (under marmot precip)"
"fleece socks"
"waterproof down booties"
I think the cold weather clothing I listed up above for the worst extremes is enough for most camp conditions. When it is really extreme you will not be sitting around much, you will need to be either keeping busy or in bed. The wool sweater and long underwear will help share the heat between more active and less active periods. For sleep wear use as little as possible down to your bag rating, but put on those long wool underwear and socks and mitts and hat and neck tube if you really get hammered. Don't be afraid of a cold bag though. Give yourself time to warm the bag up and cool your skin down a little so you will not sweat or give off as much heat. Use a thermometer to know exactly how cold it is, and also put on more if you are tired, and much much more if you are sick.

I don't know what your shelter system is. Is it up to the task? I also don't know how easy it is to avoid having to setup camp at high elevation in exposed areas under extreme conditions. That's where skill and experience and judgement come in. The trail journals of early starters, like Sgt Rock last winter, were very informative. Remember though, that most early starters won't get hammered with the worst possible conditions, and they might also be more skilled in dodging the very worst.

ATX-Hiker
12-07-2008, 12:54
I don't know what your shelter system is. Is it up to the task? I also don't know how easy it is to avoid having to setup camp at high elevation in exposed areas under extreme conditions. That's where skill and experience and judgement come in. The trail journals of early starters, like Sgt Rock last winter, were very informative. Remember though, that most early starters won't get hammered with the worst possible conditions, and they might also be more skilled in dodging the very worst.

I have a BA Seedhouse SL I'll be taking. Thoughts?

JAK
12-07-2008, 13:06
I have a BA Seedhouse SL I'll be taking. Thoughts?I can't say. I don't have any experience up at elevation, up in exposed areas above the treeline. I've been out in some nasty winds, but haven't tried camping in that stuff. Back in 1976 we had the Ground Hog Gale and there was one fatality where these ice fishing shacks all got blown up the river, and this one guy with it all. I've sailed small boats in an honest 35 knots more than once, but never stopped to camp. :D

ATX-Hiker
12-07-2008, 13:16
"Salomon Goretex Trail Runners"
"Wool Socks with liners"
- Test that system in wet snow before you go. Will you be able to change socks without instantly soaking the new pair? Develop and test your system for walking in wet snow, 30F down to 20F. Consider including a gortex sock or vbl sock or plastic bag or neoprene sock for some extremes. Also develop and test your system for drying your socks. Also develop and test your system for walking on ice, and ice under thin snow, and slippery rocks. Not just the steep up and downs, but also the long gradual descents which can really tire you and catch you off guard. I woud not have any 2 pair the same, and have one pair of thin or medium wool knee socks, one pair of thick wool ankle socks, one pair of thin wool or poly liners, plus whatever special system you develop and test for wet snow. I would also see if there it room to switch the foam insoles with a wool felt insoles for certain conditions.

[/QUOTE]

I live in TX so no real opportunities to test them in snow, should I maybe look into a pair of boots?

Wags
12-07-2008, 13:21
i would include 2 plastic grocery bags to put over your feet (in between socks). this will keep your feet warm

JAK
12-07-2008, 13:29
Texas. Right.
No I think even boots you would want to test out. You have the Salomon Goretex Trail Runners now right, so I would just use them, and at least bring a couple of bread bags with you when you go. You will just have to test as you go, and make adjustments along the way.

Even in texas you could simulate the non-drying conditions of hiking in wet snow by soaking them in ice water, and then just shake them dry, and then put on a fresh pair of wool socks and stand in some fine crushed ice while doing some exercise like deep knee bends. If there is enough water left in the trail runners to saturate your wool socks enough that your feet keep melting the snow through the wool socks and you would be warmer in just the wet wool socks and foam insoles without the trail runners, then maybe the trail runners aren't so good. I haven't done any testing, just anecdotal experience that some trail runners are more disappointing than others. I thing wet trail runners and wet wool socks should be at least as warm if not warmer than just the wet socks and insoles without the trail runner, otherwise there is something wrong. Cheers.

JAK
12-07-2008, 14:00
i would include 2 plastic grocery bags to put over your feet (in between socks). this will keep your feet warmThat does work. When its just below freezing there is still a dilemna, that if your socks are too thick you will sweat too much, and if they are too thin you will melt too much snow on the trail runners. With bad trail runners you would need thin wool, then the bags, then thick wet wool socks your wet and cold trail runners. With good trail runners you might only need thin wool, then the bags, then only thin wet wool socks and your not so wet and cold trail runners. Perhaps with good gortex trail runners you can skip the bags and outer socks, and just wear thin or medium or thick wool socks to suit the occassion. It depends on how much water the trail runners hold outside of the gortex, and how much water leaks through the goretex in wet snow. In colder conditions the moisture tends to come from your feet rather than the melting snow, but once your socks are wet you will start melting snow on the outside, which will later freeze, so you still want them to hold as little water as possible, and I think it also matters how the material conducts heat once wet. It would be nice if trail runners were developed with wet snow in mind but I am not sure if anyone actually does this. It's mostly about marketing and how it looks and feels in a store, and secondly how it performs on the trail in normal wet and dry conditions above freezing. Wet snow performance is probably incidental, and likely varies even amongst otherwise good trail runners (for cold rain above freezing). So we do our own testing maybe and YMMV. Of the many many people out there with more experience than myself using trail runners in snow, some of them must have looked into this deeper to see what differences there might be between trail runners, and why. Most people would just stop once they find something that works, or treat all trail runners more or less the same, as in wet is wet, and they deal with it by sucking it up or using a gortex or neoprene or vbl sock. Perhaps I am wrong and they really are all the same, but I think some wet trail runners are wetter and colder than others. Perhaps weight when soaked, without drying them at all by walking in them for a few minutes, is the simplest indicator of performance when hiking in wet snow.

ATX-Hiker
12-07-2008, 14:04
They're Salomon XA 3 COMP GTX, don't know if anybody has used them.

rafe
12-07-2008, 14:09
I have a BA Seedhouse SL I'll be taking. Thoughts?

It's a decent and widely-regarded tent. One that I may even own some day. ;) But one of the lightest double-walled solo tents around, from a decent brand.

ATX-Hiker
12-07-2008, 14:13
It's a decent and widely-regarded tent. One that I may even own some day. ;) But one of the lightest double-walled solo tents around, from a decent brand.

i went with it for the weight, it's just a tad heavier than a lot of tarp tents and it's a true double wall tent. Haven't had enough chances to take it to test it's durability, but i'm pleased with it so far.

saimyoji
12-07-2008, 14:18
I have a BA Seedhouse SL I'll be taking. Thoughts?

i own the non-SL version of this tent. I use it 4 seasons (down to around 5 degrees i guess) with no problems to speak of.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=21265&catid=member&imageuser=3920

kayak karl
12-13-2008, 18:46
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygY3IbFYfHg he has the best sling blade impersonation i've heard. advice is good too:D

jaywalke
12-13-2008, 22:15
i don't know why so many people say "OMG PRECIP DOESN'T BREATH". mine breathes just fine.


People say that because we don't all perspire at the same rate. I wear shorts into the high 40s, and have not yet found any rainpants I can wear at any temperature without creating my own rainstorm. I can create tropical weather hiking in a t-shirt and uncoated nylon windshirt at 10 degrees. For me, and lots of other folks, rainpants are for camp only.

Blissful
12-13-2008, 22:24
Need a jacket, sleeping bag liner

Precip is fine - only time it doesn't breathe is hiking in 40 degree or better uphill. I never wear rain pants, though they are nice in camp.

I've heard good things about the BA tent.

Panzer1
12-14-2008, 04:58
Salomon Goretex Trail RunnersI think those trail runners are more for warm weather that cold weather. For a February start I would want a proper winter boot. When the weather gets warmer then switch to the trail runners.

Panzer

kayak karl
12-14-2008, 05:33
a proper winter boot
what do you recommend ?

JAK
12-14-2008, 10:47
I just got my gortex lined leather ankle boots restitched and they feel great.
They are in serious need of traction however. I will get a photo up someday.

They are very light, soft leather, like about a pound each for size 12. There is a small leather logo on the back that reads H.M.O. and a small metal tag on the side that says "Goretex". I think I got them 25 years ago in Victoria BC around the time that Goretex first came out.

Has anyone heard of H.M.O boots?

ATX-Hiker
12-14-2008, 11:46
I think those trail runners are more for warm weather that cold weather. For a February start I would want a proper winter boot. When the weather gets warmer then switch to the trail runners.

Panzer

Any suggestions for winter boots?

Panzer1
12-14-2008, 14:37
Any suggestions for winter boots?

Since you seem to already like Salomon, I went to WWW.REI.COM (http://WWW.REI.COM) and saw these Salomon boots: all are waterproof. I think all would be good for a February start.


Salomon Explorer GTX Hiking Boots $145
comfort range not listed (2 pounds 10 ounces)
http://www.rei.com/product/763465

Salomon B52 TS Gore-tex Winter boots $140
comfort range -12 degrees Fahrenheit (2 pounds 10 ounces)
http://www.rei.com/product/772108

Salomon Snowtrip TS Waterproof Winter Boots $99.95
comfort range -1 degrees Fahrenheit (2 pounds 8 ounces)
http://www.rei.com/product/772105

Salomon Deemax Dry Winter Boots $130
comfort range 20 degrees Fahrenheit (2 pounds 2.5 ounces)
http://www.rei.com/product/772094

Panzer

ATX-Hiker
12-16-2008, 10:57
Since you seem to already like Salomon, I went to WWW.REI.COM (http://WWW.REI.COM) and saw these Salomon boots: all are waterproof. I think all would be good for a February start.


Salomon Explorer GTX Hiking Boots $145
comfort range not listed (2 pounds 10 ounces)
http://www.rei.com/product/763465

Salomon B52 TS Gore-tex Winter boots $140
comfort range -12 degrees Fahrenheit (2 pounds 10 ounces)
http://www.rei.com/product/772108

Salomon Snowtrip TS Waterproof Winter Boots $99.95
comfort range -1 degrees Fahrenheit (2 pounds 8 ounces)
http://www.rei.com/product/772105

Salomon Deemax Dry Winter Boots $130
comfort range 20 degrees Fahrenheit (2 pounds 2.5 ounces)
http://www.rei.com/product/772094

Panzer

Has anybody tried the "Deemax" boots? Those don't look too bad. And if I get out there and luck out with good weather I could always bounce them ahead or send them home.