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TrippinBTM
12-07-2008, 22:37
I'm wondering what size pack one would want to thru-hike the PCT. I just finished doing a thru of the AT this year, and my pack is a goner. It wasn't much to begin with; a cheap external frame. But the point is, I'm in the market for a new pack, and have plans to do the PCT in '10 (and certainly other shorter trips in the meantime).

So, what size do I need? I'm not ultralight (obvious, as I used a clunky external frame), but AM looking to go lighter. Since most of my old equipment is worn out, I'm keeping that in mind as I re-outfit. But again, I'm no ounce counter (I didn't even weigh my whole pack once until I got to mid PA on the trail... and being horrified, that was the last time too), just your average, if experienced, hiker, willing to forgo some, but not all, comforts (eg, I like hot food/tea at least sometimes, so I will have a stove of some sort).

Actually, on that... what kind of stove is best? Lots of people used alcohol stoves on the AT, but I hear that's not as common on the PCT. I used a Whisperlite; should I go with that? Or reduce weight by going alcohol? Or what? I'm actually thinking of just using wood fires, I saw a guy do that on the AT with a modified coffee can, worked like a Zip Stove but without a fan. but I'd want at least an alcohol stove as a back up; is alcohol available out there?

lastly, do I need a bear canister?

taildragger
12-07-2008, 22:40
I'd go with a smallish pack (3600CI or less)

An alcohol stove (ion, pepsi can, or super cat)

You can travel pretty light on the PCT if you want. I'd suggest getting Yogi's book if you're looking to do a thru.

Bear cans are now required in the Sierras. Last year the Ursack was no longer a valid can.

TrippinBTM
12-07-2008, 22:58
Damn, really? I'd hoped to get away w/o using the bear can. How much do they weigh/cost?

Thanks for the other suggestions, as well. I have a supercat stove I'm working with, seems to work well and is reliable (in theory... easy to light/use anyways). I'm experimenting with my whole cooking system this winter (nothing else to do), mainly in the area of alcohol and wood burning stoves, and various ways to make them compact and effective.

Spirit Walker
12-08-2008, 00:43
On the PCT many hikers go very light, because so much of the trail is so warm. However there are a few long food carries (Sierras) and you will be carrying a gallon of water a lot of the time - so you will want a pack that can carry some weight comfortably. You also need to be prepared for bad weather in May and June and again when you are in the Cascades, so you'll need some warm gear even in California.

You might look into a ULA Catalyst. I've been very happy with mine. I used it on the CDT where long food sections and big water carries are common.

I used a whisperlight on the PCT but switched to alcohol later. It is much lighter and fuel is generally available. I wouldn't go for wood fires - as you will see, fire is a huge issue on the PCT. At least three fires have been started by PCT thruhikers. I would really hate to see you become known as the guy who started a forest fire in 2009. (Which is better than the guy who started the fire burning his TP.) Yes, it has happened with an alcohol stove too. But I think a wood fire is much more likely to be a danger than way.

taildragger
12-08-2008, 00:55
Damn, really? I'd hoped to get away w/o using the bear can. How much do they weigh/cost?

Thanks for the other suggestions, as well. I have a supercat stove I'm working with, seems to work well and is reliable (in theory... easy to light/use anyways). I'm experimenting with my whole cooking system this winter (nothing else to do), mainly in the area of alcohol and wood burning stoves, and various ways to make them compact and effective.

I agree with spiritwalker, I wouldn't use wood unless I was in WA because of the fire risk. If you use an alcohol stove you'll still need to be vary wary of this risk, especially in So. Cal, my brother would be pissed if you ruined part of his climbing season.

As for bear cans. You can rent some, they're sort of heavy. You can usually get good deals on bearvaults. The wild ideas, bearikades look to be the nicest, but are pricey even to rent. I'd suggest buying a bearvault and having it sent to KM and picking it up there. If you cannot fit all of your food in the can, just stealth camp until you can, then do whatever you want, but I wouldn't risk camping near someone whose cooking at their site, especially if you don't have a can (seriously, the bears near yosemite can be a pain in the arse, if you stealth you should be fine, but note, if you get caught w/o a can, you can be ejected from the park).

In socal, bring something like a driclime, or some sort of nylon type shirt/wind breaker that can shed some water. You might have to deal with rain, odds are you won't. Also, WRT the driclime, it and a balaclava will work nicely as a warm layer in the desert in case you get some odd weather (it can snow, it did last year).

Lastly, join the PCT-L, you might get better faster answers there.

garlic08
12-08-2008, 10:16
I donated my BearVault to a guy who started a loaner program a couple of years ago. Search the pct-l for that. They're not that bad, and it's only for a couple hundred miles. They're nice chairs.

Alcohol is definitely the way to go, I think.

The ULA packs were the most common ones I noticed on the PCT. Henry Shires Tarptents were also very common when I hiked the PCT. So were trail runners.

MOWGLI
12-08-2008, 10:19
Most bear cans are close to 3 pounds. You only have to carry them in the Sierra. Not the whole way. This is a site worth checking;
http://www.sierrawildbear.gov/

A-Train
12-08-2008, 13:45
I donated my BearVault to a guy who started a loaner program a couple of years ago. Search the pct-l for that. They're not that bad, and it's only for a couple hundred miles. They're nice chairs.

Alcohol is definitely the way to go, I think.

The ULA packs were the most common ones I noticed on the PCT. Henry Shires Tarptents were also very common when I hiked the PCT. So were trail runners.

Wow, THANKS, that is really cool of you! I participated in the program, getting a loaner can that I mailed from the Saufleys to KM and used through the Sierra. Mailed it back to Donna in Tahoe.

I would suggest perspective thru's look into this. Really nice of all you donators and the guy who organized it (AND the Saufleys!).

Haiku
12-09-2008, 01:48
Honestly, even though the weight of a bear can is a pain, it kind of helped with my peace of mind, knowing that I had it. Even when I'd left the required zone, and was carrying it to the next place I could mail it home, it was nice to have because I no longer had to even think about rodents or deer messing with my food.

Anyway, in answer to the original question, your pack doesn't need to be that big. No bigger than your AT pack, anyway. I'm sure you figured out on your AT hike what you need and what you don't - that's going to be essentially the same on the PCT.

Haiku.

Chickety
12-09-2008, 08:53
I also used the bear cannister loaner program, what a great service! That's the way I'd try to go if I ever did it again, but they only have so many to loan out per year, fyi.

I have the old ULA "Catalyst" called the P2, worked for the AT, worked for the PCT. I was impressed by the number of people who were lightweight on the PCT, you just don't see anyone with huge heavy packs, most people have already hiked the AT or some other trail and they know what they are getting into from the start.

Used alcohol stove, only time it got tricky were some really windy areas in So.Cal, but used the windscreen to the best of its ability and we were fine. Alcohol was everywhere.

Mango
12-09-2008, 10:07
[/quote from Traildragger] Lastly, join the PCT-L, you might get better faster answers there.[/quote]


What or where is "PCT-L"? Is it the separate forum on WB?

papa john
12-09-2008, 10:11
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

chris
12-09-2008, 11:21
The link below has my 2003 PCT gear

http://cwillett.imathas.com/pct/index.html

This one has my 2008 PNT gear.

http://cwillett.imathas.com/pnt/index.html

Not a lot has changed, except in details. I like ULA packs and alcohol stoves are very easy to use and get fuel for. I'd suggest reading as many journals as you can to see what worked and what didn't work for people. www.trailjournals.com is a good place to start.

I'd use a tarp at the very start and would probably recommend something with a shape to it if this is your first tarp experience. Henry Shires makes good stuff and I've hiked a few thousand miles with the old Virga. If I was in your shoes I'd probably buy the Rainbow.

Sly
12-09-2008, 11:31
I I was impressed by the number of people who were lightweight on the PCT, you just don't see anyone with huge heavy packs, most people have already hiked the AT or some other trail and they know what they are getting into from the start.


Hey Chickety,

You missed Jester. :D

mts4602
12-09-2008, 14:35
I've hiked a few thousand miles with the old Virga. If I was in your shoes I'd probably buy the Rainbow.

What makes you recommend the Rainbow over the new contrail?

I'm looking at purchasing the contrail simply b/c it's 1/2 lb lighter than the rainbow but I'm worried about it being a pain to set up since I've never used a tarp before.

Chickety
12-09-2008, 21:58
You missed Jester.

Ha ha! I guess so! Though, we did see him at the kickoff, but that was with a burger in his hand, not a pack on his back!

TwoForty
12-09-2008, 22:26
Alcohol stove is the easiest to get fuel for, well, other than a wood stove.

Yes, you need a bear can.

Pack size depends on how fast you hike. You'll be carrying more water in the desert, so take that into account. In the Sierra, you may also have a couple of longer resupply stretches and a bear can.

chris
12-10-2008, 11:43
What makes you recommend the Rainbow over the new contrail?

I'm looking at purchasing the contrail simply b/c it's 1/2 lb lighter than the rainbow but I'm worried about it being a pain to set up since I've never used a tarp before.

The Rainbow is complete coverage, which means you can pitch it where ever you like and a storm isn't going to be a big deal. If you pitch a Contrail, like a Virga, in an open, exposed place and a storm rolls in, you might get wet. Well, maybe. I've rode out some harsh storms in foolish (but beautiful) campsites in the Virga just fine. The body sags a lot on the Virga, however. I would suspect that the physics will be the same. The Rainbow is set up differently and you should be able to avoid this.

1/2 pound will make absolutely no difference in the quality of your hike. The difference between 10 lb base weight and a 12 pound base weight isn't much.

Either one would be a fine choice for a shaped tarp on the PCT and will be much more forgiving for a new user than an open tarp.

neighbor dave
12-10-2008, 12:00
:-? i carried a 5lb tent on the pct. no probs. got used to the bear can too. it's all in your head:-?

yappy
12-11-2008, 11:26
don't listen to a thing neighbor says cuz he is nuts !

A-Train
12-11-2008, 13:30
:-? i carried a 5lb tent on the pct. no probs. got used to the bear can too. it's all in your head:-?

It's all in your pack actually :)

Mags
12-11-2008, 16:12
It's all in your pack actually :)

The "all in the head" comment makes me think of this Abbey quote:

Nobody seems more obsessed by diet than our antimaterialist, otherworldly, New Age, spiritual types. But if the material world is merely illusion, an honest guru should be as content with Budweiser and bratwurst as with raw carrot juice, tofu, and seaweed slime.

TrippinBTM
12-11-2008, 22:01
Cool, I was thinking about the ULA. Is the ULA circuit big enough? I'm worried about the bear-can fitting in there. It seems to cost about 1/3 less than the catalyst, which I appreciate. If I can get by with a smaller pack, that's good by me.

I should confess that I know just about nothing about bear cannisters.

I've tried tarps, just with a cheapo "blue tarp" I got at warmart. Worked ok, got wet a few times, eaten alive too, before I broke down in CT and got my tent mailed to me. Mostly because of the wet; didn't mind the bugs too bad. I'll probably stick with a tent, though. Easier to use, IMO. Though at Trail Days the "Appy Trails" tarps looked pretty cool, liked the idea. May consider that, or something like it. Still, I like my freestanding tent...

by the way, great Edward Abbey quote. The man is my hero!

TwoForty
12-12-2008, 03:12
I saw people doing fine with their Circuits, although they had a lot of stuff on the outside. I carried my Catalyst stuffed to the brim on a few days. I typically had one day too much food though. The Circuit will fit a bear can, but last I checked you have to use it vertically (not that comfortable with a single stay, or no stay) and cram your gear around it.

If I tried the PCT again, I would go with the Circuit, but I would have to leave some stuff at home and suck it up during some of the big water hauls. I know the resupply stretch from Mojave/Tehachapi to Kennedy Meadows looked tough with a long waterless stretch and a potential for carrying a lot of food. But I didn't make it that far, so it could have been a cakewalk.

taildragger
12-12-2008, 03:18
Cool, I was thinking about the ULA. Is the ULA circuit big enough? I'm worried about the bear-can fitting in there. It seems to cost about 1/3 less than the catalyst, which I appreciate. If I can get by with a smaller pack, that's good by me.


I can put my bv500 and supplies in my catalyst, you should be fine in the sierras, the trick is fitting the food in the bear can. And for the Sierra's you may want to go tent over tarp, the mosquitoes in the Sierra's can be maddening (or so I here, there were pretty bad at 8000' in Yosemite in early June last year.)

K.B.
12-12-2008, 03:42
I hiked the PCT with a Gossamer Gear Mariposa and used a Bear Vault 500 in the high Sierras. The Bear Vault did not fit/work so well with the Mariposa at I was glad to send the BV 500 home from Bridgeport. I gave the Bear Vault to my friend after the hike.

Number of bears I saw in the required Bear Canister use area = 0. I think for the most part bears were not living that high in the Sierra’s when I was there in June.

Have fun hiking the PCT!

K.B.

Boudin
12-12-2008, 10:22
It needs to be big enough to carry a s*** load of water.

neighbor dave
12-12-2008, 10:56
for the Sierra's you may want to go tent over tarp, the mosquitoes in the Sierra's can be maddening (or so I here, there were pretty bad at 8000' in Yosemite in early June last year.)

:-?ditto for sections of oregon and washington. i saw folks under a tarp that weren't haven't fun when the skeeters got rough, they were very thick:-?

Sly
12-12-2008, 11:20
I know the resupply stretch from Mojave/Tehachapi to Kennedy Meadows looked tough with a long waterless stretch and a potential for carrying a lot of food. But I didn't make it that far, so it could have been a cakewalk.

That stretch can be busted up into 100 miles and 50 miles with a side trip to Onyx, Isabella or Kernville.

Also, SMD's Wild Oasis worked fine when the mosquitoes were out. (tarp with noseeum skirting)

Sly
12-12-2008, 11:26
Taildragger, when were you at Kennedy Meadows?

taildragger
12-12-2008, 12:06
Taildragger, when were you at Kennedy Meadows?

June 10th, or so, right around the time the trail caught on fire again and I realized I was bankrupt. I didn't get to hike there, at that point I was bumming around the state picking up gear.

taildragger
12-12-2008, 12:07
I can put my bv500 and supplies in my catalyst, you should be fine in the sierras, the trick is fitting the food in the bear can. And for the Sierra's you may want to go tent over tarp, the mosquitoes in the Sierra's can be maddening (or so I here, there were pretty bad at 8000' in Yosemite in early June last year.)

I meant circuit....

taildragger
12-12-2008, 12:08
June 10th, or so, right around the time the trail caught on fire again and I realized I was bankrupt. I didn't get to hike there, at that point I was bumming around the state picking up gear.

I was in Yosemite before that, contemplating on doing the JMT SOBO style, thats where I'd experience the mosquitos anytime I got near a body of water that wasn't a water fall.

Sly
12-12-2008, 12:26
June 10th, or so, right around the time the trail caught on fire again and I realized I was bankrupt. I didn't get to hike there, at that point I was bumming around the state picking up gear.

Just missed you. I got there around the 15th. I hiked up to the Anderson's (did you stop there?) and a little beyond but got sucked back in. Joe and teriie took me up. Hiked from KM to Trail Pass (Lone Pine) before taking the bus to Tahoe.

Here's what the trail looked like a day out of KM.

taildragger
12-12-2008, 12:33
Just missed you. I got there around the 15th. I hiked up to the Anderson's (did you stop there?) and a little beyond but got sucked back in. Joe and teriie took me up. Hiked from KM to Trail Pass (Lone Pine) before taking the bus to Tahoe.

Here's what the trail looked like a day out of KM.

No, actually was about 2 miles from their place when I decided that I was getting a little too loopy to be in the desert. The beer they left out did help me for a while.

Sly
12-12-2008, 13:32
No, actually was about 2 miles from their place when I decided that I was getting a little too loopy to be in the desert. The beer they left out did help me for a while.

Probably just as well. I ended up staying three weeks. Joe and Terrie are great people. Feed hikers pancakes and coffee in the morning, taco salad at night and the coolers were always full of beer and soda. Donation only.

I took the blue blaze from "the Oasis" to their house.

mudhead
12-12-2008, 13:38
Is a BV500 big enough? In a practical sense.

yappy
12-13-2008, 10:40
in 96 we did'nt need to cannister...when did it start anyhow ?

MOWGLI
12-13-2008, 10:51
Is a BV500 big enough? In a practical sense.


I carried food for my daughter and me in one on the JMT. So.... yes. It should be plenty big.

yappy
12-13-2008, 11:06
like others have said, water will be the issue. back in the day ( yikes ! ) I used a Dana with the top off and it worked great. On a sobo pct hike I used to Ozone and it seems like al lot of room.. but, the vapor seems about right.

ScottP
12-13-2008, 12:22
i hiked with a children's school backpack for the first 900 miles or so. It was fine, but i couldn't get hitches. Anyways, it's just like any other hiking--it's pretty much all up to personal preference. You will need to carry a max of 5-8L of water (or carry a few liters less and do significant night hiking, take your pick)

I didn't use a canister and if (err when) I do the PCT again I still wouldn't use a canister. My pack thru the sierrias obviously couldn't fit one, and none of the rangers i encountered seemed to care one bit. YMMV

TrippinBTM
12-15-2008, 07:54
i heard otherwise about the rangers. And what does YMMV mean?

Marta
12-15-2008, 08:32
We obviously met different rangers. On the JMT in '07, I was asked about my bear canister by at least three different rangers. Rapping my knuckles on the side of my pack satisfied them.

Sly
12-15-2008, 09:03
i heard otherwise about the rangers. And what does YMMV mean?

I think the earlier season PCT hikers are given a little more slack than the later season JMT hikers. There's also less rangers in June than July, August and September.

YMMV= Your millage (or experience) may vary

MOWGLI
12-15-2008, 09:03
i heard otherwise about the rangers. And what does YMMV mean?

Your Mileage May Vary. As in - you may see things differently.

MOWGLI
12-15-2008, 09:07
Rapping my knuckles on the side of my pack satisfied them.

Last year I was asked about my canister 2 times in 115 miles. Once in Yosemite near Donahue Pass, and once in the Ansel Adams Wilderness by 1000 Island Lakes.
I rapped on the side of my pack too.

The ranger at 1000 Island Lakes was particularly nice. We had a long chat. I told him where I planned to camp - on a peninsula jutting out into the lake. He thought it might be too close to the water. I promised to pace it off and did. In the morning he said that from up high, I looked to be too close to the water. I assured him that I wasn't - as I had paced it off in all directions. He was satisfied.

wandering_bob
12-16-2008, 01:27
Yosemite rangers are polite and helpful, but also sticklers for detail. They have good reason to be. Wait until you see the idiotic tourists they have to deal with daily at Tuolumne Meadows and Yosemite Valley.:eek: Don't be one of those.

They are familiar with PCTA Thru Permits, and as long as yours is in order and you have your bear can, they won't detain you long......but they WILL check you. Expect to meet the first one on the flat in Lyell Canyon, more at TM - especially in the backpackers' campground in the evening. Once north of heavily used Glen Aulin High Sierra Camp, rangers will be rare. Incidentally, many of the rangers around TM are of the law enforcement type (armed and sworn). Give them lip at your peril.

TwoForty
12-16-2008, 01:35
I gave one of them female cops (not a ranger) a piece of my mind on the flat in Lyell early one morning. I'm not sure who let her go beyond the parking lot, but she wasn't very nice. I had wonderful interactions with all the other rangers, who were all backcountry.
That was the only time I was questioned, asked for a permit, and had to show my bear can.

Dogwood
12-16-2008, 01:45
I know this isn't answering the IP's question, but since we're talking about the PCT, definitely get up-to-date H20 and snow reports from the PCT website or at the kick- off. They will absolutely help U better manage your hike.

taildragger
12-16-2008, 02:05
I know this isn't answering the IP's question, but since we're talking about the PCT, definitely get up-to-date H20 and snow reports from the PCT website or at the kick- off. They will absolutely help U better manage your hike.

Yes, get Asabat (I believe thats who it was) water reports for the south end, you'll hate yourself if you don't...trust me...I did...

Sly
12-16-2008, 03:22
Yes, get Asabat (I believe thats who it was) water reports for the south end, you'll hate yourself if you don't...trust me...I did...

http://www.4jeffrey.net/pct/

Erik The Black
12-20-2008, 14:13
I used a Granite Gear Vapor Trail and it was fine. I rarely ever had to use the extension collar (except one time when I packed out a watermelon).

But since then I've gone ULA and will probably never go back. The most popular pack I saw out on the PCT was the ULA Catalyst. Now in my opinion that is overkill for the PCT and if you're carrying enough stuff to fill that pack then you're carrying too much. But, it's a very nice pack and its a great "transition pack" for those who are coming down from big heavy packs into lighter weight gear.

Personally, I use a ULA Conduit now, but that's a pretty small pack and you've gotta go pretty ultra-light to get that to work for you (tarp, minimal clothing, etc.)

But I really love ULA packs (http://www.ula-equipment.com/) and they have one for almost every hiking style it seems.

If I was going to make a "one-size-fits-all" recommendation for a PCT Pack it would be the ULA Circuit. It's smaller than the Catalyst so it will force you to eliminate some of the junk you might be considering carrying... but it's still plenty big enough to carry a bear canister, water in the desert, and long food carries for the rare instances when you will need to do those things.

TrippinBTM
12-22-2008, 20:45
I ordered the Catalyst the other day. I'm not ready for ultralight yet, but I'm working on it. I'd rather have extra space go unused then not have enough when I need it (for food, for example).

TwoForty
12-22-2008, 21:21
The load hauling capacity of the Catalyst is great for when you are hauling large amounts of water in socal. You could probably get by with the new Circuit if you are light enough, but the versatility of the Catalyst was perfect for Socal and the Sierra.