PDA

View Full Version : Nunatak Arc Aplinist vs Montbell SS #1 vs JRB Rocky Mountain Sniveller



ChinMusic
12-08-2008, 15:54
Nunatak Arc Aplinist vs Montbell SS #1 vs JRB Rocky Mountain Sniveller.

I've finally come to the conclusion that when push comes to shove, me and traditional mummy bags don't play well together. I just do not zip them up all the way as I am too wide in the shoulders, or I just cannot accept the tightness that others deal with. Not zipping it up all the way works fine for temp above the bags rating but that kinda defeats the purpose.

I have never even been in/under a quilt. I understand the rational of not wasting down under you....makes sense. I'm concerned about the loss of heat from rolling around in a quilt. I am a restless sleeper. What are the downsides of a quilt? Just laying on something like a Big Agnes Insulated Air Core (rated to 15) really good to 15* with a quilt? Do all quilts have a strap that goes under your pad to keep things together?

I am getting paralysis by analysis when trying to figure out which direction to go.

I like the idea of the Montbell being able stretch. That might allow me to zip it up all the way. It still wastes the down that is trapped under you.

I like the idea of the JRB Rocky Mountain Sniveller over the Nunatak Arc Alpinist as you can wear the quilt while in camp.

Quality wise: Are JRB and Nunatak similar?

take-a-knee
12-08-2008, 18:33
I don't have any experience with Nunatak gear, but I don't think they have anything on JRB, their stuff is top shelf. JRB's main market is hammockers, as such their quilts are a rectangle that can be used an underquilt, top quilt, and campwear with the headhole option. I believe the Nunatak has a Jardine style sewn footbox so it might have the edge on footwarmth. I'd go with the Rocky Mountain No Sniveler, I believe they are currently on sale, and, if you don't like it, someone at www.hammockforums.net will give you most of what you paid for it. Francis Tapon used a RMNSniveler to yo-yo the CDT.

Egads
12-08-2008, 18:37
ChinMusic,

I cannot speak for Nunatak from experience, but they have a great reputation.

I can speak from experience using the JRB Nest & RMS quilts. They are quality products and are true to their "ratings". They do not have a strap under the pad. But, JRB offers a Down to Earth converter pad with velcro to keep the quilt from leaking cold air. I do not have one and cannot comment on it's effectiveness. I like using a quilt until ~36-38* when the cold drafts wake me, although I've used the Nest with a down jacket to 30*. I think that a big guy like you will need a Mt Rogers or Katahdin quilt. Maybe they will provide a custom quilt with the head hole for you.

Montbell makes great comfortable bags that allow freedom of movement. I have the #0 and love it. It has seen a low of 11* so I cannot speak for it's rating.

Good luck with your decision

doodah man
12-08-2008, 19:00
ChinMusic,
I used a Nunatak Arc Specialist for my JMT thru hike this September. (I spent a few weeks eating Phreak's trail dust). It is rated at 32*F and was plenty warm for me even though we had several nights down to the very low 20's. (My water bottles were frozen solid by morning a bunch of times). With a Wal-Mart generic blue full length pad, doubled up on the top half with a Gossamer Gear torso length 'Mt. Washington' style pad, my sleep system weighed less than 2 pounds and was comfy enough. The only time I got cold was if I got overheated a little to a light sweat and got a chill a few times. Sleeping bags don't work well for me... I am a side sleeper and tend to toss-n-turn all night... The freedom of movement of a quilt makes all the difference for me. doodah-man

ChinMusic
12-08-2008, 19:05
I called Jack (JRB). What a nice guy. He asked me more questions than I asked him in trying to point me in the right direction. He agreed with Egads (and I hadn't read Egad's post yet) that the Katahdin could be better than the Rocky Mountain for my size and sleeping pattern. You really can't wear the Katahdin like the RM but it can drape over you like a "cone".....for times you are just sitting at a shelter for example.

I'm still afraid, for winter conditions, that a quilt wouldn't hold in the heat for me since I like to turn over....side, stomach, side, repeat. I'd love to give one a "try" sometime (borrow one from a bud)....maybe in my backyard. I have a trip sched for the first week of Jan (Tennessee Turnpike) and really don't want to "experiment" too much on that one.

I used to be a hammock guy but gave it up a few years ago due poor temperature control....still have my Asym. Jack let me know that things have changed greatly since then.

Long feet
12-08-2008, 19:11
I have a regular No Sniveler, with the Down to Earth conversion, also a ground sleeper, and have slept very comfortably into the 30s.

Mocs123
12-08-2008, 19:14
I have the JRB Hudson River Quilt (20*). I would be happy to let you borrow it and try it out anytime you want.

ChinMusic
12-08-2008, 19:40
I have the JRB Hudson River Quilt (20*). I would be happy to let you borrow it and try it out anytime you want.
Stick it in your car......:D

hopefulhiker
12-08-2008, 20:25
I used a Nunatak back country blanket, silk liner and BA insulated mattress.. but I am considering the JRB no sniveler to save weight because you can use it to keep warm walking around camp.. Right now they are on sale at JRB's

Oms
12-08-2008, 22:04
If you live around Chicago, let me know. I have a Nunatak AA long with overfill, a JRB Hudson River and a Nest (both regular length). The Nunatak has much closer baffles, a more traditional footbox, and fits more like a bag. It's definately warmer then the JRBs, but they are not rated the same. You would have to step up to a four season quilt. The JRB footbox is ok, but I use them as underquilts. My old Nest only had the Omni-tape and the HR now comes with the Omni-tape and a string to help hold it closed. As for the price, the JRBs are much better. I'm bumming because I just bought the HR and a month later they are $40 off. Nunatak products are very nice, but I think a little overpriced. Still I bought the Skaha after saving for two years. I am not disappointed with anything from them. What ever you buy make sure it's wide to keep the drafts down. I used my old bag like a quilt before buying one and liked the freedom of movement. When using it in the cold you will quickly learn to tuck. I don't think I have ever used the straps. If you choose a Nunatak, get the straps fully removable.

dmax
12-08-2008, 22:31
"I" prefer a down bag. The only part smashed flat, is what's right under you. while you twist abd turn through the night, it will change. the bag starts to loft beside each leg arm back, or anywhere else. What ever area starts lofting beside the body, starts warming up. I guess what I'm trying to say is, not all of the bottom of your bag will be useless.

coldspring
12-08-2008, 22:39
ChinMusic, if you think a mummy bag is too small in the shoulders, I don't think you'll be happy with a 48" wide quilt that doesn't have straps to keep it secure.

I have a Jacks R Better Katahdin for sale. I haven't listed it on WB yet, but it is on some other forums. It has been used one night, and is as good as new.

take-a-knee
12-08-2008, 23:29
ChinMusic, if you think a mummy bag is too small in the shoulders, I don't think you'll be happy with a 48" wide quilt that doesn't have straps to keep it secure.

I have a Jacks R Better Katahdin for sale. I haven't listed it on WB yet, but it is on some other forums. It has been used one night, and is as good as new.

If he's a big guy I'm not sure 48" is wide enough. I'm only 5'8"/165 and following Ray Jardine's quilt making instructions I arrived at a 48" width for a Rayway quilt. A quilt doesn't need to be as wide in a hammock as it does on the ground.

Ramble~On
12-09-2008, 03:43
Have you looked at Big Agnes Bags ? They have a lot of room to roll around in and there's no down on the bottom to compress, like a quilt but the bag wraps entirely around you.

I have a JRB No Sniveler and love it. You can close the hook and loop at the bottom, pull the drawcord and tie two strings together to create a footbox. I've had no problems with it and have nothing but praise for the quilt...that goes for use as an underquilt in a HH and as a stand alone quilt..as well as being used as a bag liner in really frigid temps.
It also doubles as a down jacket around camp.

Egads
12-09-2008, 08:07
I slept with my JRB RMS in the backyard last night. It was plenty warm, but I I am a restless side sleeper and pull the legs up into a fetal position. That extra width makes air gaps under the edges that I felt even at 37*. I really recommend that you try hte JRB extra wide quilts or the Nunatak BCB.

My daughter's one eyed cat recommends teh JRB quilt too. Spent the whole night nestled underneath.:D

buz
12-09-2008, 10:37
Two comments:

I have a MB ULSS #2 and love it. However, I am slim guy, and from what I can gather, If you are big guy, the SS feature is nice, but may raise the temp rating of their bags. So if you consider them, go lower in bag temp than you may need it. They are great bags, and for me, warmer than rated.

I have the BA insulated air core, regular, not the 0 degree one. For me, that pad is good to 30 by itself. Any lower and it sucks the heat out of me. I need a ridgerest, or other closed cell on top of it in temps lower than 30. Works great, just need additional layer.

ChinMusic
12-09-2008, 15:29
I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on a Montbell #0 and just fill my needs for a "worst-case bag". I don't "plan" on backpacking with temps below 0 and I can't see a quilt being a primary part of my "worst case" planning.

I will readdress the quilt/bag issue (for higher temps) once I see how I get along with stretchy Montbell bag.

Make sense?

Jorel
12-09-2008, 16:22
I have the Nunatek quilt, 20 degrees, and love it. I should say, however, that I use it in a somewhat unique way. I have a silk liner for cold weather hiking, and also use a Vapr Lite bivy (less than 4 oz) and a one eighth inch ground insulation pad and a Big Agnes 19 oz mummy sleeping pad. It isn't so much for weight that I use the quilt, I am just such a toss and turner that I cannot stand being secured by a bag. The bivy gives me some warmth, some condensation protection, and lots of room to roll around. I am very happy with my set up, and the beauty of it is that it can be pared down as the temps rise on the trail.

Oms
12-09-2008, 19:12
I always wondered how well the stretchy material would work. It seems like the insulation would get compressed and not provide warmth. Any feedback from those with the Montbell?

Ramble~On
12-09-2008, 19:50
Oms that's a good question and I'd like to get some feedback on that too.

I'm wanting to pick up a quality zero degree bag. I'm a cold sleeper and I roll around a lot. I love winter backpacking and camping and have been using a JRB No Sniveler inside a Marmot Sawtooth..works great and keeps me toasty down below zero but there isn't any room to move around.
I like Big Agnes bags for the roominess and pad sleeve concept but from what I understand their temp ratings are way off and they use 650 down instead of 800 or 900.
I like Montbell and have nothing but good things to say about their clothing..but I've never seen one of their bags. I'm wondering if the zero degree SS would be roomy enough to roll around in and if the down would compress and cause cold spots.
I wish more companies would have pad sleeves in the bottoms of their bags with or without insulation on the bottom.

ChinMusic
12-09-2008, 20:26
Well, I just pulled the trigger on the Montbell U.L. Super Stretch Down Hugger #0 at Prolite gear for $363.98.

I certainly let y'all know how it works out.

Egads
12-09-2008, 22:21
...I am slim guy, and from what I can gather, If you are big guy, the Mont Bell SS feature is nice, but may raise the temp rating of their bags. So if you consider them, go lower in bag temp than you may need it. They are great bags, and for me, warmer than rated.

That is a great point that no one has made before. It makes sense that a large person stretching out the bag is both increasing the surface area which increases heat loss, and they also thin out the down (since it is enveloping a larger area) which reduces the clo rating or R value. Therefore, it makes good sense for a larger person to buy a lower temp bag when ordering a MB SSDH.


...I'm wanting to pick up a quality zero degree bag. I'm a cold sleeper and I roll around a lot.
...I like Montbell and have nothing but good things to say about their clothing..but I've never seen one of their bags. I'm wondering if the zero degree SS would be roomy enough to roll around in and if the down would compress and cause cold spots.

I have not experienced any cold spots in my MB SSDH #0 and I am a very active sleeper. It's plenty roomy for me, but I am 6'-0" and 175#.

My son just bought a WM Kodiak GWS 0* bag instead of the MB. The tie breakers were better fabric, continous tubes for down redistribution to match conditions, & better draft stops. The Kodiak is a large sized bag allowing use of a down jacket or quilt to extend the range well below 0*.

You should take a look at both of these bags Spiritwind.

buz
12-10-2008, 10:21
Spirit, IMO, as noted previously, I think it depends on your physical size with the MB bags. For me, last weekend i layered up with a down jacket and vest layed on top of me, and had plenty of room in the bag. But I am 6' 170# in a large size MB. You could be beefier than I am no doubt in the torso area and not compress the down at all. Where the line is, size wise, I cannot say. But there is a lot of room in my bag. IMO, the design of the bag keeps the loft intact until you stretch the inside considerably, very similar to a regular bag. In fact, playing with my bag because of this thread lol, IMO, you could stretch the inside dimension slightly more than a regular bag without de lofting it, because of the ss feature. Best I can do to be constructive. I am flip floppy side only sleeper, and this bag is by far the best at dealing with that "feature" i have when sleeping.

alalskaman
12-12-2008, 00:31
Well, Chinmusic has made his choice, but I'll say what I was going to say anyway. A couple of years ago I was very much taken with the quilt idea, after reading Ray Jardine and others. At the time, was using a REI SubKilo, rated for 20 deg. It has a partial zipper, which leaves a nice foot pocket. I thought I would try it as a quilt, and then if it worked, would beat the down back into the center, trim off a few inches of fabric and zipper, and have a nifty quilt. Well, I am glad I tried the idea out first...even with all the extra width to tuck around me, it was a cold and drafty rig. One night, only a degree or so below freezing, but in a rather drafty tarptent, I knew I was never going to sleep unless I zipped up. And that was wearing long underwear, ski hat and a Montbell thermawrap jacket. Needless to say, trimming off even more of that bag, and leaving less to wrap, was not IMO going to make it warmer.

Actually, I became increasingly dissatisfied with that particular bag - it was cut rather slim, meaning that even for a fairly slim guy like me (6'1'', 160 lbs) my elbows or whatever often pushed out and made it thin, and I got cold. It never, for me, even approached the 20 deg rating. More like 32. Anyway, I had liked the lightness of it, so tried another approach..gave the REI bag to one of my sons, and got 2 bags for me. (I was feeling flush, probably for the last time!!) A dedicated summer bag, and a winter/fall one. Both Montbells...a #3 for summer. Surprisingly, I have found the #3 a bit warmer than the REI...even though, as many have noted, the down seems pretty skimpy in the chambers. Nevertheless, perhaps because of the superstretch, I have slept in the same clothes as mentioned earlier, in another drafty tent, with the thermometer right beside me saying 31 degrees, and the water skimming over in my cookpot. Complete comfort...never woke up at all during the night. Also, the MB #3 long weighs in at 1 lb 11 oz, while the REI long was 2 lb 7 oz. Just my experience...I've decided that the quilt idea is fundamentally sound, but maybe not for side sleepers, fidgeters.

Lucy Lulu
12-12-2008, 07:58
I used the 20 degree Nunatak quilt on the PCT, and then switched to the Montbell zero degree stretch bag in Washington. I am a very cold sleeper.

I loved the quilt, but I'm a very restless side sleeper, and got cold spots below about 30 degrees. Even when I cinched the quilt up tight I spent a lot of time "adjusting" to prevent drafts, as I switched from side to side. I would get the cold spots between the two straps.

I switched to the Montbell and all draft problems were resolved. This is an incredibly warm bag, and the stretch material allowed me all the room I needed, which is probably more than the typical mummy sleeper. The only minor downside that I saw with the Montbell, was that it did not pack down as small as I would have liked it to pack. I don't usually use stuff sacks for my bags, but have to with this bag, or it takes up half the pack.

buz
12-12-2008, 10:27
May,

I don't know of any 0 degree bags that pack down small. They are full of down, lol. I bet that is seriously warm, as for me, my #2 can take me to single digits with extra layering. Get a bigger pack, lol, staying warm at night, nothing more important, in my book.

Lucy Lulu
12-12-2008, 13:08
Staying warm is pretty important at night for me also...especially as I loose weight into a longer hike. It is great to be in shape, but I always miss that little extra layer of "insulation." :)

There are other zero bags that I've packed that actually seem to compress better than the Montbell. Suprisingly for me, my zero degree Sierra bag also packed down to about the same size.

ChinMusic
12-12-2008, 13:24
My MB #0 has not arrived yet. Now you guys have me worried about packing size. I love my GG Vapor Trail but may have to use my Osprey if the MB is HUGE.

Mocs123
12-12-2008, 13:40
My Phantom 0 packs down to 8" x 16" (its tight!) if that is any help. I would assume that the Mont Bell would pack down to a similar size.

dla
12-12-2008, 14:22
I definitely believe folks should give quilting a try in the backyard using a down bag.

Having said that, Time for some honesty on sleeping under a quilt for me. I'm a side-sleeper. I toss and turn mainly because I get hip pressure points. In mild weather, say high 40's, I wear very little except a poly base-layer top, a Columbia buggaboo hat, and gloves. There are drafts when I roll over but at those temps they don't bother me.

When the temps are in the 20's, I sleep fully dressed but with down booties and mittens. I usually wear a polar fleece balaclava under the Buggaboo because the only draft that bugs me is down my neck.

Now my "quilting" is done using a Campmor Long Mummy 20*, and I have to make sure that the down is shook towards the middle or I will find coldspots. When I'm on one side the hood is perfect, one the other it is in the way. This is certainly not a quality quilt, but it is what I have.

Lucy Lulu
12-13-2008, 16:12
I certainly didn't mean to cause any worries about the "compactability" of the Montbell zero degree bag. I've packed it down, and it fits just fine in my Aura 65 and my old ULA pack. It just does not seem quite as tight as a couple of my other bags.

That aside, this is an awesome bag! It gives plenty of room to this hiker, that does not care for the close quarters of a mummy. It also meets it's temperature rating with no problem, and although it does not seem to compress quite as tightly as others, it pretty close, and also retains it's loft a little better.

I hope and think you will love this bag. I know I would probably not trade it for another zero degree bag.