View Full Version : Need Winter Hiking Tips
RITBlake
12-14-2008, 21:53
Well I got a break at work and with the holiday schedule I'll be out of the office for 11 days (what a shame :) ) I'd like to get out and do a 4-6 day hike through Connecticut and Mass. However, I've never done a true overnight winter hike. The closest I've come is mid November down in the NC/GA area.
So I was thinking about the unique challenges a winter hike presents and here are a few that come to mind:
Length of Day - Must wake up earlier, and cover more miles in a shorter time
Night time Temps - Being prepared to sleep through the night in much colder conditions, this means carrying much warmer gear
Snow - Dealing with small to large amounts of snow. This is where I'm most concerned
Are there any other unique issues w/ winter backpacking I should be aware of?
Tips?
You need a plan to keep your water in a liquid state:rolleyes:
RITBlake
12-14-2008, 21:56
You need a plan to keep your water in a liquid state:rolleyes:
Tips?
Tips?
Some say you can use a platypus and blow the water out the tube but that does not work for me. It eventually freezes up. Bring bottles and keep them inside your pack upside down. I keep 1 insulated bike bottle close at hand. heat them up in the morning and have warm water to drink. You'll drink more and keep your core temp up. Heat them up at night and sleep with them. Do not sleep with a platy. Had one burst on me last morning of a section hike. Really stunk as I lost half my water when the west side of GSMNP was dry a year ago.
RITBlake
12-14-2008, 22:06
Thanks for this, I don't use Platypus bottles anyway, strictly a 32 oz gatorade bottle man.
Mass and conn don't appear to have much snow at this time if this map (http://www.nohrsc.nws.gov/nsa/index.html?year=2008&month=12&day=14&units=e®ion=Northeast) is at all accurate.
Keep moving is a common tip when hiking in the colder months, quick breaks
to snack and drink .
Its either hike in the dark under headlamp or turn in early this time of year.
Double up on sleeping pads if ground sleeping so you don't melt/thaw the snow/ground under you.
I carry a insulated pouch which holds two 1 qt, gatorade bottles, no probs with freezing water even overnight.
Any more specific questions....?
RITBlake
12-14-2008, 22:18
I carry a insulated pouch which holds two 1 qt, gatorade bottles, no probs with freezing water even overnight.
Any more specific questions....?
Link to this product for purchase?
Mine is from Arctic Zone, a collapsible cooler, probably meant for something else but it is just right for 2 1 qt bottles, similar items can be found in many dept stores.
RITBlake
12-14-2008, 22:37
Woodsy, thanks for this!
And FWIW, with your refrigerator on your back, you can bring whatever perishable food items you like, if its real cold, bite size items are good, they thaw easier in mouth.
I usually bring along some cooked meat , steak, sausage/bacon mmmmmmmmmm
Alligator
12-14-2008, 22:44
The longer you are out, the more chance of adverse conditions, give yourself a little leeway in your mileage plan. Also, reduce your daily mileage factor a little.
RITBlake
12-14-2008, 22:58
And FWIW, with your refrigerator on your back, you can bring whatever perishable food items you like, if its real cold, bite size items are good, they thaw easier in mouth.
I usually bring along some cooked meat , steak, sausage, mmmmmmmmmm
Oh that is a great idea!
Is this the style of insulated bag I should pick up?
Maybe one for food, one for water.
http://www.amazon.com/Ensign-Insulated-Lunch-Sack-Red/dp/B000IG2H2U/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=apparel&qid=1229308802&sr=8-2
garlic08
12-14-2008, 23:01
Will you be able to find liquid water to drink along the way? If you need to melt snow, you'll need extra fuel. If it's powder snow, it's possible to burn a pot if you don't keep the bottom of the pot wet.
RITBlake
12-14-2008, 23:03
me thinks the streams in CT and Mass are still running.
ChinMusic
12-14-2008, 23:09
RIT - Try not to sweat. If you find yourself sweating, either take off some clothes or slow down. That sweat is REAL cold once you stop.
Feral Bill
12-14-2008, 23:20
About half your pack weight should be dry wool socks.:)
Seriously, winter footwear is really important.
Read a good winter camping book. I believe AMC had one.
RITBlake
12-14-2008, 23:22
About half your pack weight should be dry wool socks.:)
Seriously, winter footwear is really important.
Read a good winter camping book. I believe AMC had one.
Good suggestion. I'll hit the bookstore tmrw.
Plenty of water in CT. Just sleep with your gatorade bottles in your bag and they will not freeze up. Be very careful with icy bare rock areas in that section. Hiking sticks required, crampons probably overkill.
Layer up and remove layers as you hike. I am just coming off a 2 day hike starting in 20 degree weather, nothing serious, and I was too warm with 4 layers, wool hat, gloves. Standard take off the hat to regulate body heat helps somewhat, but if I was doing more miles, I would have took off pack to delayer.
My 20 degree bag is good to about 15 degrees when sleeping with dry clothes.
Slo-go'en
12-15-2008, 00:02
Don't discount traction devices. The last few storms to come through have been mostly rain events, followed by deep freezes. It will be mightly slick in a lot of spots. Bog bridges when covered with ice can be deadly.
Full crampons will likely be more trouble then thier worth, but some kind of small spikes or boot chains would be in order. I see you can even get these at Wal-mart noow. Not great stuff, but will likely last the trip.
You don't need to wear much while hiking, but have a change of dry and warm stuff ready for camp. Don't start out in the morning overdressed, you'll start to sweat pretty quickly.
If your crossing the CT/MASS line, Sage ravine and Race Mt could be something of a challenge. That will likely be the hardest part of the hike. Hope you have good weather!
-Get out the clothes you'll think you'll need and add another layer. Try not to sweat, constantly change outfit (On/off hat gloves, open/close vents, etc) DO not take any cotton, AKA death cloth.
-White gas stove, 1/3 quart per person per day in winter
-Turn your stuff sack inside out, place boots inside and put in bag to keep them warm and dry out over night.
-Plan on walking 2/3 of regular mileage b/c cold, snow, dark, snowshoes. Much less if post holing
-Sleep with water, camera, headlamp (anything you don't want to freeze up)
-Bring a pee bottle unless you can pee out the tent or don't mind getting dressed and going outside (bring a pee bottle)
-take a tent
-Know your limits and have plans to be able to get off trail if needed (blizzard, ice storm)
OMHO but have camped below zero many times, in wind chill -25 last January (here in NC)
If your crossing the CT/MASS line, Sage ravine and Race Mt could be something of a challenge. That will likely be the hardest part of the hike. Hope you have good weather!
Jug End is also interesting when wet or icy.
double d
12-15-2008, 01:07
You might want to carry a small plastic shovel to remove snow at your campsite. I believe REI has a nice selection at a good price. They also do not weight much. I recently hiked on the Ice Age Trail in Wisconsin, wish I had the shovel with me.
RITBlake
12-15-2008, 01:17
If your crossing the CT/MASS line, Sage ravine and Race Mt could be something of a challenge. That will likely be the hardest part of the hike. Hope you have good weather!
Yes, that's the section I love. My first real backpacking trip on the AT was a 10 day walk starting at the CT/NY border and walking in to Mass so I love going back to revist it.
Looking forward to seeing it in a new season.
Yes, that's the section I love. My first real backpacking trip on the AT was a 10 day walk starting at the CT/NY border and walking in to Mass so I love going back to revist it.
Looking forward to seeing it in a new season.
nice area, i live nearby, pm me is you need a ride or assistance along the way.
RITBlake
12-15-2008, 01:33
Appreciate that TM, I'll PM you in a few days when my plans are a bit more firm.
buckwheat
12-15-2008, 01:33
me thinks the streams in CT and Mass are still running.
Depends on where you are, especially with the ice storm recently. For example, today I drove maybe 30 minutes West of where I live, and conditions were dramatically, unbelieveably more dangerous than where I live. The ice storm just wreaked absolute havoc on parts of Massachusetts (at least the parts I have been able to observe.) You should definitely try to get some local recon info for where exactly you will be hiking.
I travelled on Route 2 West into Leominster today, with plans to hike the Leominster State Forest area. One look, and I turned my car around and drove back toward Northeast Massachusetts and did a day hike near my house. It was that bad. I especially feared potential damage to my vehicle both driving on the roads, and just having it parked at a trailhead.
There are a LOT of downed trees and everything is still covered with 2 inches of ice. I felt that the hiking conditions in that area were unreasonably dangerous.
Just a heads up.
yep, if your dates are flexible, don't go right after an ice storm. if your dates aren't flexible, had alternate plans after an ice storm
RITBlake
12-15-2008, 01:50
Just a heads up.
Many thanks BW. Maybe I'll get our friend Tom in Dalton on the phone tomorrow and see what's shaking in his neck of the woods.
mkmangold
12-15-2008, 02:27
During our infamous hike in the Kettle Moraine last February, we survived because we brought toe warmers. They are those disposable small bags that release heat throughout the night while you are sleeping and unable to keep your circulation going through muscular action. We highly recommend them.
Double D (#22): where did you go and when was that?
Oh that is a great idea!
Is this the style of insulated bag I should pick up?
Maybe one for food, one for water.
http://www.amazon.com/Ensign-Insulated-Lunch-Sack-Red/dp/B000IG2H2U/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=apparel&qid=1229308802&sr=8-2
similar,One should do it. I keep one quart jug handy in pack side pocket and put the cooler with another qt jug and few food items tucked away in pack. On a 15 deg overnighter, had no ice in qt jug with insulated cooler. wouldn't bother with the cooler thing if temps expected to stay above 25 deg. Bring cocoa for hot drink.
We need some fresh snow over this crud we just got to make for some traction, right now its just plain hard snow and slippery around here, difficult mountain traveling w/o traction aids but ok on the easy terrain.
This link (http://www.backpacking.net/wintertips.html)has some good tips and tricks for wintry travel and camping, some if not many you have already heard here.:)
Ramble~On
12-15-2008, 09:04
Well I got a break at work and with the holiday schedule I'll be out of the office for 11 days (what a shame :) ) I'd like to get out and do a 4-6 day hike through Connecticut and Mass. However, I've never done a true overnight winter hike. The closest I've come is mid November down in the NC/GA area.
So I was thinking about the unique challenges a winter hike presents and here are a few that come to mind:
Length of Day - Must wake up earlier, and cover more miles in a shorter time
Night time Temps - Being prepared to sleep through the night in much colder conditions, this means carrying much warmer gear
Snow - Dealing with small to large amounts of snow. This is where I'm most concerned
Are there any other unique issues w/ winter backpacking I should be aware of?
Tips?
Leave your cotton clothing at home.
Put your clothes in the bottom of your sleeping bag...warm clothes are nicer to get into in the morning than frigid clothes.
Plan on drinking more water than normal -cold, dry winter air dehydrates you quickly.
Take a book or something to do while you're in your tent/hammock for the long winter night.
Don't overpack !
* You can make DIY water bottle insulated pockets for cheap.
Pick up a closed cell sleeping pad at one of those Chinese Super Centers and some duct tape. Cut pad to wrap bottle, cut out rings for top and bottom and duct tape together. You can make one for a stove fuel canister too if you use cansiter fuel.
I fill a bottle with hot water before I go to bed and put iit in the sleeping bag..it's still warm in the morning.
Cookerhiker
12-15-2008, 09:12
I've hiked CT in the winter but for only 3 days/2 nights (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=122932)and also did 5 nights on the Laurel Highlands Trail (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=7356)last March. All of the advice you've received is on-target. The only thing I would add is that it's nigh impossible to prevent sweating so the key is your shirts. Don't skimp; wear one high-quality wicking shirt and bring another. The first thing to do when finishing your hike for the day is to change your shirt. Put the one you wore in your sleeping bag that night.
Re water bottles, one trick I've heard is to not fill them up completely, loosen the cap a bit, and store them upside down.
I like to put a bandana over my mouth while sleeping. Youngblood taught me that. It's uncomfortable at first, but it eliminates the nasty sore throat that you can develop from breathing in that cold air all night long. If you've ever had that sore throat - you know what I'm talking about.
Ramble~On
12-15-2008, 09:25
Yes, and recently.. It's nasty when it's so cold it hurts to breathe!
I end up getting deep into the bag and pulling the drawstring tight...which works except the exhilation eventually causes the top of the bag to freeze solid:eek: which happend on my last trip..I was stuck until I managed to get the zipper to work. The hole formed in the hood by the drawstring was frozen like a rock from my breath coming out. That sore throat lasts a couple days. I'll wear a merino wool neck gaiter to bed next time and pull it up.
RITBlake
12-15-2008, 16:10
Thanks for the advice everyone very helpful.
Hike & sleep with a balaclava, it mixes the super dry & cold air with your warmer & moist breath.
ChinMusic
12-15-2008, 18:58
I end up getting deep into the bag and pulling the drawstring tight...which works except the exhilation eventually causes the top of the bag to freeze solid:eek: which happend on my last trip..I was stuck until I managed to get the zipper to work.
That just gives me the creeps, thinking about it. I'm nearly sure I would have just ripped my way out. Getting stuck in the bag is an irrational fear I have.
Skidsteer
12-15-2008, 19:00
Hike & sleep with a balaclava, it mixes the super dry & cold air with your warmer & moist breath.
Second that. Makes a big difference.
fiddlehead
12-15-2008, 19:08
Bring something to read. 16 hour nights (over and over) are long.
Re: Drinks and insulated water bottle holders - They will only slow the freezing of your water, not prevent it. You need to heat the water up to extend the time before the water freezes in your insulated holders. Also - adding an energy drink with electrolytes (salt) in it will lower the freezing temperature a bit. Sleep with your water bottles in your sleeping bag to keep them from freezing overnight. If you have a water filter, sleep with that, too, or the pump will freeze up (it will at some point, anyway, better to bring extra fuel and boil your water or use chemical purification - heating water will speed up purification).
Sleep with your stove fuel (unless it's liquid - Coleman, white gas, kerosene). Your stove will fire up quicker in the morning. In the evening, at camp, put your stove fuel (if cannister or alcohol) in an inner pocket in your parka before cooking supper (same reason as above).
In case of an ice storm, hike out or stay in a clearing or a shelter with a solid roof. Falling ice can easily damage a tent or tarp.
Bring an extra lighter, and matches double bagged in plastic bags in case the lighters fail (the same holds true for butane lighters in extreme cold as your cannister - keep the lighters in your warm pockets).
Jack Tarlin
12-15-2008, 19:13
Just ran into someone yesterday who was on a college winter hiking trip, and despite all preparations and good leadership, they STILL had someone suffer serious frostbite, which will probably result in some toe snipping.
Tinker's above post makes a lot of sense.
Consider a thermos. Boil your water in the morning and fill the thermos. You can have a hot drink whenever you stop.
Look into changes with your food. Drink mixes really help me stay hydrated because plain hot water pretty much sucks. Hot chocolate, cider, soup mixes all help me stay hydrated.
Plan on more fuel. If it's genuinely cold, you'll likely prefer hot meals and hot drinks. The fuel will make this possible.
Consider more fat in your meals. Summer sausage at lunch time with some hot soup helps me stay warmer. I've been known to drop some butter into hot chocolate before bedtime because the fat calories help me sleep warmer.
Consider lightweight liner gloves to wear under mittens or heavier gloves when temps are below freezing. They really help to avoid direct contact with metal while having some dexterity.
Winter is the one time I often carry designated sleeping layers. It is just too easy to chill once I am in camp and not moving much and damp sweaty stuff against my skin just plain hurts. You can dry your damp stuff (if it's not soaked) by wearing it over a dry base layer and under your insulating layers. If your clothing is just plain soaked, set it aside.
Consider gaiters if you know you'll be in snow. Sleep in dry socks and go back to damp ones when you hike the next day if necessary. But by all means, maintain a pair of "sacred socks" for camp. Your dogs will need them to avoid immersion foot (AKA trench foot). It's like walking on a very hot brillo pad with every step until you lose enough skin for everything to simply start scabbing over. Then it becomes just plain painful. Trenchfoot SUCKS. I speak from experience.
Shorten your goals. Less daylight, more energy expended if there is snow. You do the math.
And don't eat yellow snow. ;)
Tips?
Perhaps the biggest think is that wet stuff is colder and dries slower.
Where you want to go 4-6 days and haven't alot of time to practice and test gear, I would make that your goal. So I would fill up your car with all the stuff you want to try out and head someplace where you can do alot of hiking and camping not too far from the car should things get 'interesting'.
Tips/Ideas:
1. Pretend your car is broken down on a cold night and test your winter kit.
2. Bring stuff with you to make a hobbo stove from a coffee can, but do it out there, and maybe some other projects, rather than doing them at home.
3. Practice stopping to make tea with a tin cup and a few sticks and rocks, or with your hobo stove, in all sorts of different conditions, including cold hands.
4. Practice drying socks and stuff.
5. With your car is close by get some stuff wet and see how you manage.
6. Bring a thermometer to be more objective about how your gear/clothing worked out.
7. Don't lose your care keys or lock them in your car.
8. Learn to recoginize poor judgement as a sign of hypothermia/fatigue, and stop for tea when in doubt.
9. Carry a big plastic jar of honey, like 1kg, as emergency backup food.
10. Try living in the woods or out of your car the whole 11 days, including bathing/laundry.
11. Have fun.
RITBlake
12-16-2008, 00:28
you guys are making me nervous!
you guys are making me nervous!
ice is really the only thing to respect out there. make sure you have good traction as suggested earlier and hiking sticks. it rarely gets extremely/dangerously cold in the section you are planning. just carry the maps, cell phone and plan to bail out if things get too dicy. you will be plenty close to roads, so don't worry. :)
ice is really the only thing to respect out there. make sure you have good traction as suggested earlier and hiking sticks. it rarely gets extremely/dangerously cold in the section you are planning. just carry the maps, cell phone and plan to bail out if things get too dicy. you will be plenty close to roads, so don't worry. :)
I respect the cold:eek: you can find a way around ice, but you are hours or days from heated buildings
buckwheat
12-16-2008, 06:06
you guys are making me nervous!
Good. You should be nervous. Winter culls the herd of the weak in order to make the rest of the herd stronger.
nitewalker
12-16-2008, 07:44
you guys are making me nervous!
you should be nervous!! winter is no time to get your butt stuck out in the middle of nowhere. mother nature has no discrimination when she kicks up the cold. all the advice from above is great and use it wisely. the one thing you really need to remember is your decision making during winter could make the difference between life and death. your daily mileage will be cut in half from your summer miles. one small note on the cotton. it kills when wet but if you can keep it dry for nitetime clothing you will love it. just remember not to hike in the cotton only sleep if you decide to bring some...this is only advice and should not be considered 100% true.....:D
fiddlehead
12-16-2008, 07:55
Have fun. The views are much better in the winter and you will have the AT to yourself except on weekends. It is a great time to hike.
In cold weather I use Nalgenes instead of Gatorade bottles. If the water in the bottles freezes solid, you can put the Nalgene in a pan of boiling water to free them of ice. Needless to say, you also have to have a big enough pan and enough stove fuel.
I would carry a couple of chemical handwarmers for emergency use. If your hands get so cold they lose function (can't strike a match, for instance) you can use the chemical handwarmer to get them working again.
You'll probably need way more than your normal amount of food calories to keep your internal furnace blazing.
Cookerhiker
12-16-2008, 08:52
you guys are making me nervous!
I hope you're not discouraged. Winter is a very rewarding time to hike with the increased views, no bugs, clean air, natural refridgeration, uncrowded conditions. This may have been said already: choose a stretch where a sufficient number of bail-out opportunities i.e. side trails or roads are available. Since you indicated you'd hike in CT & MA, you should be OK.
I respect the cold:eek: you can find a way around ice, but you are hours or days from heated buildings
i respect the cold of the north, too. ct and ma don't usually get so cold. plus it is minutes, maybe an hour, two tops, from heated buildings in this section
I hope you're not discouraged. Winter is a very rewarding time to hike with the increased views, no bugs, clean air, natural refridgeration, uncrowded conditions. This may have been said already: choose a stretch where a sufficient number of bail-out opportunities i.e. side trailsw or roads are available. Since you indicated you'd hike in CT & MA, you should be OK.
exactly, no issues here. watch the ice, falling is the biggest issue
I tried this tip last week north of the smokies - jello mixed with hot water. Its really an fast energy booster and also an antidote for impending hypothermia. I think a box is about 300 calories and you can digest it an about 10 seconds. I'll always carry some of it in winter now, maybe one per planned day. I drank one box in 16 ounces of hot water and felt immediately better in low 20's/25 mph winds - then I slammed up snowbird mountain with energy to spare.
jumawalks
RITBlake
12-16-2008, 15:06
Good. You should be nervous. Winter culls the herd of the weak in order to make the rest of the herd stronger.
That's a little over dramatic isn't it?
RITBlake
12-16-2008, 15:07
I hope you're not discouraged. Winter is a very rewarding time to hike with the increased views, no bugs, clean air, natural refridgeration, uncrowded conditions. This may have been said already: choose a stretch where a sufficient number of bail-out opportunities i.e. side trails or roads are available. Since you indicated you'd hike in CT & MA, you should be OK.
I don't think discouraged is the word. Just a bit more cautious now.... But I can't tell you how much this thread has helped in my planning. You guys have brought up things that I hadn't even considered.... like footwear. I'm so used to going out for a 3 or 4 day hike in the warm months, where I just have to grab my pack and poles, hit the stop and shop on the way out of town for food, and then head for a trailhead.
Seems like winter hiking is a whole different animal.
ChinMusic
12-16-2008, 15:08
That's a little over dramatic isn't it?
The North usually wins.........:-?
Another thing I thought of...I can't remember if someone else has already mentioned it...in the winter (if I'm solo) I travel with three light sources--two headlamps and a candle lantern. The candle lantern is nice for a long-burning light, and you can warm your hands on it, too. If I'm with one or more other people, then I figure they'll have lights, so I don't bring so many backups for myself.
buckwheat
12-16-2008, 16:26
That's a little over dramatic isn't it?
Another poster in this thread points out that, even on a supervised hike recently, with a professional along, a young hiker is getting a piece of their body removed due to frostbite, so I guess it is pretty dramatic.
Winter hiking presents obstacles that can turn deadly quickly, especially if you are hiking alone. Yes, you will be very close to heated buildings, but the first thing to go in the early stages of hypothermia is judgment and decision-making skill.
Not trying to be dramatic, but the warnings you're getting here should at least make you more nervous about winter hiking than summer hiking.
I absolutely love doing it, but without a doubt, it is more dangerous.
Excellent thread.
I've done a fair share of winter hiking, but not a lot recently. I'm planning to do a section starting at Fontana and ending in Erwin starting Feb. 14. Some great reminders here.
Thanks everyone.
ChinMusic
12-16-2008, 16:34
Not trying to be dramatic, but the warnings you're getting here should at least make you more nervous about winter hiking than summer hiking.
I absolutely love doing it, but without a doubt, it is more dangerous.
Winter hiking is not like just showing up at Springer, in late April, and walking north. Mistakes are more costly. Experience matters more.
Don't forget, WHERE you are doing winter hiking makes a difference too.
Winter hiking in New Hampshire above treeline is a different ball of wax than hiking in say North Carolina.
Just something to keep in mind.
saimyoji
12-16-2008, 21:35
take a buxom heater along for company. :cool:
take a buxom heater along for company. :cool:
Result from Google Image search for Buxom Heater
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.livenews.com.au/static/articles/82731/F_0_Picture2_2.png&imgrefurl=http://www.livenews.com.au/articles/2008/07/03/Big_Brother_Buxom_Bianca_Tipped_to_leave_&usg=__FApAwrA0kZLVF069XS0CKoY3q6M=&h=225&w=320&sz=11&hl=en&start=14&tbnid=0Css-_TJGisTMM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbuxom%2Bheater%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26 sa%3DG
I don't think i've heard anyone mention yet that you should never, ever, go hiking alone, especially in winter.
Thats what the experts say....
ALWAYS go hiking alone. ESPECIALLY in winter. :p.
Really, though, that's very wise advice, but I wouldn't have experienced half of the wonder of winter if I'd had companions on many of my trips.
I would temper the above by saying "never hike above treeline alone in winter and avoid crossing frozen streams and lakes when hiking alone". ALWAYS have dry fire starter on your person at all times just in case...... Do bring a cell phone and keep it warm and dry.
AND - one very, very important issue:
Never allow yourself to get dehydrated, especially when travelling alone.
I was angry with myself for not mentioning the above in my first post here. Been there, and it's very scary trying to go to sleep shivering in your -30 bag when it's +35 outside your (supposedly) nice, warm tent. All because you had to bail out of an unwise climb alone in winter when it started to rain and you were in too much of a hurry to get back to the car (you never did because you ran out of daylight, were weak and dizzy, and too tired to make a hot dinner or look for water or melt snow).
That was my first big wake up call. I'm grateful it wasn't my last.
rainmaker
12-16-2008, 23:13
Madame and I plan to do some hiking in the GSMNP next month and though the conditions there are usually somewhat milder than those in NE, this post has been a reminder of things we need to consider and plan for. This has been an excellent post.
RITBlake
12-17-2008, 01:37
Excellent thread.
Some great reminders here.
Thanks everyone.
Indeed. I got a lot out of this thread. It might be worth condensing all this info for a Winter Hiking WB Article for future use.
Jim Adams
12-17-2008, 01:41
do what ever you need to do to stay dry.
geek
I keep water in a pot over night in case all water freezes, then just turn on your stove.
also i learned to sleep in so getting out of your bag is alittle warmer. you loose a few miles but I didn't mind when it was really cold. after 3 mights i learned to l=sleep 14+ hours in bad weather.
bigcranky
12-17-2008, 09:05
Bring two sets of gloves and hats -- a lighter set to hike in and a warmer set for around camp. I find my gloves and hat get damp from exertion, but I get too cold if I go bareheaded (or -handed). Bring a complete set of dry warm base layers to change into in camp, and put your damp hiking layers inside your bag to dry out, or at least stay unfrozen, overnight. You'll put them back on in the morning to hike.
One of the hardest things to do is to take off your warm layers before you start hiking, but it's important to keep your insulation layer dry, especially if it's down.
Don't forget your legs. I like to wear light weight long john bottoms as a base layer, then either shorts if the weather is decent, or rain pants if the weather is lousy. Regular nylon hiking pants are okay, but they can get soaked in bad weather and wet clothing is not a good thing in winter. Tall gaiters keep my feet dry in snow and mucky trail conditions.
Bring extra stove fuel and food in case you have to hole up somewhere for a couple of days.
Above all, be careful and enjoy it. Winter is the best time for a hike!
me: I don't think i've heard anyone mention yet that you should never, ever, go hiking alone, especially in winter.
Thats what the experts say....
tinker: ALWAYS go hiking alone. ESPECIALLY in winter. :p.
Really, though, that's very wise advice, but I wouldn't have experienced half of the wonder of winter if I'd had companions on many of my trips.
I hear ya, i wanted to put one of these(:rolleyes:) after my post but it is a serious matter for inexperienced winter hikers.
Like most adventurous endeavors , experience matters more when alone.
Anyone new to and interested in winter hiking would do well to start some day tripping with someone who knows the ins and outs of winter hiking.
You may find hiking in areas that you are familiar with comforting too.
Sure you can learn by the school of hard knocks and many that do live to tell about it.
Leaving behind a detailed itinerary with someone is highly recommended even if you don't stick to it 100%. Its usually easy to track someone in snow.
There is plenty of info on the web about winter hiking, a simple google search of winter hiking/ solo winter hiking brings up countless pages.
Have fun, be safe, turn back when in doubt.
nitewalker
12-17-2008, 09:48
another thing to consider is the sleeping bag fill..some people love down and some people like the synthetic for winter. the down is great if you can keep it totally dry. sometimes during the evening if the down bag is too warm for the winter temps you may start to sweat. the bag fill will take in the sweat and thus become clumpy over time. you may last one nite but over time the bag mite not do the job. you need to keep the down dry. be aware of this problem thru the nite and ventilate the bag as needed. synthetic fill can get wet and still do the job so they claim. synthetic fill is heavier than down but is a great choice for winter treking. less worry involved with taking care of the bag while on your hiking trip..whatever you decide good luck with it..;)
after the 1st of the new year i am in for some winter camping/hiking...:banana
I don't think i've heard anyone mention yet that you should never, ever, go hiking alone, especially in winter.
Thats what the experts say....
I hike alone in winter a fair amount. I prefer it, no crowds. I am confident on my skills to handle any problem. Lasy winter I broke my leg up on the parkway, got back to my car and drove 3 hrs home. As a Dr if you think I'm going to th ED you're nuts. I called my ortho from the car and went to his office.
When you're stupid you have to be tough!
When you're stupid you have to be tough!
Exactly!
garlic08
12-17-2008, 13:10
you guys are making me nervous!
A motorcycle-riding friend of mine told me the minute he's not nervous on a bike anymore, he's quitting. Fear is there for a reason--survival.
I hope you enjoy it out there, winter travel is a very rewarding sport. Nothing worth doing is ever easy.
Rockhound
12-17-2008, 13:41
winter hiking tip #1 hike in Florida
I don't know if someone's already said these, cause I'm not feeling like reading 4 pages worth of notes but here it goes:
1) To keep your water as liquid, sleep with it in your sleeping bag.
2) When sleeping, make sure not to wear too many layers. A wicking bottom layer and maybe one more layer will be sufficient. I know someone who camped all bundled up and ended up with the early stages of hypothermia.
3) This I guess is common knowledge, but make sure you check your socks often to make sure you're wearing a dry pair.
Extra stuff in the vehicle.
Food. Clothing. Shovel to dig your vehicle out of the snowdrift.
Plodderman
12-17-2008, 15:12
Two things that I wish someone would of told me when i wintered hiked are:
1. It gets dark quick so you will need to stop sooner and prepare for evening. That is one of the things I did not much care for, being at camp by 4:30. Seemed like from the time the time I noticed the sun going down it was dark so not much time.
2. Try to walk at a pace in which I did not sweat.
Alligator
12-17-2008, 15:15
Extra stuff in the vehicle.
Food. Clothing. Shovel to dig your vehicle out of the snowdrift.On that note, don't drive all the way down the forest service access road either. 'Cause it's not going to have the highest priority when it comes time to plow.
First off, this is a great thread, very informative.
The only thing I have to add, or echo is that you might want to pick somewhere you are familiar with so that you know the terrain.
My wife and I set out recently with only 20 degree night time temps on the Knobstone in Indiana. We planned to do the entire trail in three days at an average of 2 MPH. We soon realized that on this particular trail 1.5 was the quickest we could go. This would not have been a problem except we had cached the water at specific points and barely made it to our second point. When we had to call to get a ride I was heartbroken.
Listen to the experienced hikers here, and get out there and have fun.
RadioFreq
12-17-2008, 16:23
( this is a long thread already...haven't read all entries...apologies if this is a repeat)
Per Sgt. Rock's winter clothing list pick up a pair of Army Field Pants Liners.
http://hikinghq.net/gear/clothing4.html
http://www.fatiguesarmynavy.com/store/item/US1014
Got mine for $10.00 at the local Army Surplus store. Work great keeping my lower half warm used with my normal hiking pants. I have other layers for my upper half.
ChinMusic
12-17-2008, 16:40
My wife and I set out recently with only 20 degree night time temps on the Knobstone in Indiana. We planned to do the entire trail in three days at an average of 2 MPH. We soon realized that on this particular trail 1.5 was the quickest we could go. This would not have been a problem except we had cached the water at specific points and barely made it to our second point. When we had to call to get a ride I was heartbroken.
The Knobstone is often dry but some peeps of mine said water is not an issue right now. You saw otherwise?
2mph on the Knobstone is cooking.
The Knobstone is often dry but some peeps of mine said water is not an issue right now. You saw otherwise?
2mph on the Knobstone is cooking.
ChinMusic, There was water on the trail, but there were quite a few factors against us.
The number one reason was that we opted to forgo the filter for the cached water. Will not happen again.
The second was the short daylight. It was pitch black dark at 6:30 pm
Lastly was underestimating the terrain, we managed 1.5 to 1.75 per hour with fully loaded packs and yes, we were cooking. To the point where we couldnt go any more.
But I digress, There was water on the trail in many areas...at least trickles enough to filter.
P.S. this was on Thanksgiving.
Done ton's of winter hikes in Whites (Tucks Ravine 2/10/01 -20 below 85mph winds -86 wind chill)! I use O.R. bottle insulator, keep bottles upside down while hiking, and in sleeping bag at nite. Always use Space/Emergency blanket under sleeping bag ( retains body heat )! This time of year in Ma/Conn you'll be fine.
if it's cold enough, keeping water from freezing during the day is a problem, too... i get nervous about leaving a water bladder in my backpack, even when against my back, because i cant tell if it is partially frozen... so on my last trip, when i found my water freezing while walking, i tied a loop around my pack's sternum strap, which i ran to a pair of shock chord loops -- sized to grab 3/4 liter gatorade bottles, and to hold them inside my windshirt, with the bottom of the bottles just above waist height. worked quite well. and i find those shock chord loops are handy for holding a hat or gloves, when not being used for a bottle.
First off, this is a great thread, very informative.
The only thing I have to add, or echo is that you might want to pick somewhere you are familiar with so that you know the terrain.
For a first winter hike, RIT has picked an easy area. Get in trouble, knock on someone's back door.
ChinMusic
12-17-2008, 19:08
For a first winter hike, RIT has picked an easy area. Get in trouble, knock on someone's back door.
Great bail-out plan.
Great bail-out plan.
It's easy in the NY, CT, southern mass sections. In winter, you can see the backdoors from much of the trail.
Lion King
12-17-2008, 19:42
Well I got a break at work and with the holiday schedule I'll be out of the office for 11 days (what a shame :) ) I'd like to get out and do a 4-6 day hike through Connecticut and Mass. However, I've never done a true overnight winter hike. The closest I've come is mid November down in the NC/GA area.
So I was thinking about the unique challenges a winter hike presents and here are a few that come to mind:
Length of Day - Must wake up earlier, and cover more miles in a shorter time
Night time Temps - Being prepared to sleep through the night in much colder conditions, this means carrying much warmer gear
Snow - Dealing with small to large amounts of snow. This is where I'm most concerned
Are there any other unique issues w/ winter backpacking I should be aware of?
Tips?
Its not as bad as you think really.
I suggest starting early if possible, but for me if its cold, my damn bag never wants to let me up.
I suggest brewing a coffee as you pack, or even as you lay for an extra ten minutes in your bag, that way you start warmed up.
Take extra clothes with you for sleeping. Trust me. Put your wet clothes (Or cold ones0 under your SLeeping bag or thermarest and they will dry by morning or at least be warmer.
Take a good tent.
Know your trail and know route finding in case of heavy snow, and of course...leave an agenda in case a ICe age sets in.
Feral Bill
12-17-2008, 20:19
Two things that I wish someone would of told me when i wintered hiked are:
1. It gets dark quick so you will need to stop sooner and prepare for evening. That is one of the things I did not much care for, being at camp by 4:30. Seemed like from the time the time I noticed the sun going down it was dark so not much time.
2. Try to walk at a pace in which I did not sweat.
I find when I wear sunglasses/goggles it seems dark sooner so I make camp sooner. Sort of solves #1. #2 can be hard uphill on snowshoes.