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Percival
04-11-2004, 15:53
If you saw Sex, Lies, and Videotape, the husband kept cheating on his meek wife until she had enough and started fooling around herself, where she finds true happiness. An analogy can be made with dogs and irresponsible owners.

Owners of aggressive dogs cheat on their pets in many ways, including but not limited to:

1. Letting them go unleashed when they are not well disciplined,

2. Failing to teach them that humans, not dogs, are on top the food chain, and most important,

3. Failing to properly train their dogs to respect humans unless a clear threat is posed to the owner.

The worst failure is #3, which when combined with #2 usually ends with the dog finding true happiness in an innocent hiker's leg or other fleshy spot (innuendo intended). Usually, the hiker does not consent to this intimate encounter, though the dog will argue the point.

The point (my point, not the dog’s -- remember I'M on top here) is, if your dog is not properly disciplined, don’t bring him on the trail. Remember that not all hikers are capable of discerning a "bluff charge" from the real thing, and some hikers may act accordingly when faced with a threatening dog and take defensive action.

As is the hiker’s right. If a dog is unleashed and snarls, snaps, and – most importantly – invades the hiker’s "personal space," the hiker would be a fool to wait until its teeth are in his flesh to assume aggression. The dog has already presented obvious signs of aggression, thus justifying a defensive strike.

So train your dog properly or accept the consequences when an innocent hiker defends home plate.

Valmet
04-11-2004, 21:01
Better yet, don't take them on the trails. I do not like dogs running loose. If one invades my space they get a whack across the head with my hiking stick. Believe it or not everyone does not like your dog.

steve hiker
04-12-2004, 16:57
It's usually not thru-hiker dogs that cause trouble, but the day trippers and weekenders. Some of those people do NOT belong on the trail, period, much less their dogs.

borntired
04-12-2004, 17:10
"It's usually not thru-hiker dogs that cause trouble, but the day trippers and weekenders."
-- I agree with that. All the dogs I've seen accompanying thru-hikers have been too tired to even bark.

Chip
04-12-2004, 21:06
Wow!! Sure are alot of replies regarding dogs on the trail. Yes I have posted 3 on other threads regarding Trail Hounds. I agree with Percival for the reasons why some dogs are aggressive. Some of the dogs I have seen running lose on the trail have no owner nearby. When you get near a farm or home close to a trail it may be the local dog. Sometimes I think a few of these dogs are strays. Yeah there are the day trippers & weekenders too who let their dogs run free.

I train my dogs and keep them on a leash at all times and believe it or not my dogs really have a great time being on a leash out on the trail. I don't own any trail and neither do my dogs when we are hiking.

My advice to anyone who runs into someone who has a dog running free is to let them know it is not appreciated and why. You can make a difference ! If more people with dogs would act responsibly, the better !!
Sometimes if not most IT IS THE OWNER WHO NEEDS TO BE TRAINED!!!
Thanks for reading,
Chip ;)

Brushy Sage
04-12-2004, 21:31
While I was hiking through the Smoky Mtns, a large black animal bounded out of the thicket just ahead of me. I experienced a flash of fear, thinking I was almost face to face with a bear, until the creature started howling, and looking at me with its large, red-streaked eyes. While I was trying to figure out what to do with a large dog in a no-dogs-allowed environment, a hiker who had just gone ahead of me heard the dog's howl and came back to check on it. Turns out he was missing his own dog, which he had boarded during the hike through the Smoky Mtn Park,and would meet again at Davenport Gap. He took the dog with him all the way to Mountain Momma's. It apparently belonged to someone in Georgia, and the owner came to Mountain Momma's to get it. Strange happening, and I never did understand how the canine got lost out in the Smokies like that. Maybe on a bear hunt? Or followed some hikers? Who knows?

retread
04-22-2004, 21:37
Well....I am not a dog person, but I did meet some cool dogs on my hike. And I did meet some incredibly stupid dog owners. One woman was letting her dog drink directly from a spring then got pi$$ed off when I told her that while she might not mind drinking after her dog, I did.

Mountain Dew
04-22-2004, 23:14
When I thru-hiked in 2003 it was my experience that well over half of the A.T. "thru-hikers" dogs should NOT have been on the trail. I was charged twice by dogs. Once, two dogs came at me at the same time. Often I would see trail dogs either drinking in the water source or bathing in it. One dog that was with a husband/wife duo was always begging for food. I do think dogs should be allowed on the trail, but maybe a training certificate of some kind should be required before the dog is allowed on the A.T. Most people just can't or won't handle the extra responsibility of hiking with a dog.

steve hiker
04-23-2004, 00:18
I was charged twice by dogs. Once, two dogs came at me at the same time.
What happened with the two dog attack and how did you fend them off?

snuffleupagus
04-23-2004, 02:41
If I'm not mistaken, all dog's are direct descendents of the wolf. From there dogs have been bread to serve different purposes in respect to man's needs. Be it hunting, tracking, security, or just plain companionship. Most dog breed's are comprised of two or more dominant features which give that particular breed the characteristics of the breeder's needs. That being said, the internal intinct to fight for dominance is there in all breed's of dog's. Even though dog breeder's have decreased aggressive nature through training and behavioral modification, the nature of the dog is to fight for what it needs. If a dog is put in a place or a situation where the need for it's own security or safety arises, that internal instinct comes back, and hence, an attack. It all comes down to how well the initial behavioral modification process, and personalization skills have been taught. The more a dog is surrounded by people during training, the more comfortable the dog will feel around social situations..... Then again, take that same dog out of a social environment for too long and the insecure feeling may come back.
There are a thousand and one reasons why a dog will attack a hiker. For the most part though, it all comes down to good breeding, behavioral modification with positive reinforcement, and socialization skill training. In my opinion there is no such thing as a bad dog, only the bad owner of a mistreated dog.

Ramble~On
04-23-2004, 05:43
I love dogs. I love cats. I love birds, fish, ferrets...all kinds of pets..
AND...THEY ARE PETS....
I also love hiking and have never felt any sympathy for any dog or dog owner who feels that any trail or trail shelter is a good place to have their dog.
In 1996 there were thru hikers with dogs that never caused (to my knowledge) any problems. But if it's okay for thru hikers to have dogs on the AT then it has to be okay for everyone to have dogs.

Scenario: It's been a usual day....you've hiked, you're tired and hungry
You see the shelter up ahead and you move closer... Then you hear the dog barking and growling...you see the dog moving in your direction. You see gear all over the shelter but don't see or hear any people. A long minute passes and someone eyes you up and calls to the dog. The dog returns to the shelter but still growls and barks. It's dusk and will be dark soon....
:-? It's a big German Sheppard or Pit Bull or Doberman or Rottweiler
How do you feel ? What do you do ?

It's my opinion (OPINION) that most of the people who take their "LARGE" dogs on the trail are insecure and having that dog with them is their "security"
In which case that dog is....or could instantly become a weapon.
If you have a "big" dog and you disagree with me GOOD...I've already made my point because now you have my perspective and know how I...(the ordinary hiker) feels about your big dog. Not only that but you may feel that your big dog is intimidating.......a better word is "instigating"
Because I am going to sleep in that shelter...your dog is not....
If I want to make sudden movements around the shelter....I am going to make sudden movements....I'll be polite to you at first....and no I do not want your dog to sniff me....I do not want to pet your stinking dog and I could care a less how friendly your dog is once it gets to know me. I'm a really, really laid back person, open, friendly etc etc.....but your barking, growling dog has changed me....No, I am not about to be intimidated by your dog. No, I am not going to leave and let you and your girlfriend have the shelter to yourselves for the weekend. And YES....your dog is going to stay out of the shelter. And yes, I'd be happy if you and your dog went out and set up the tent.......AH Yes.....now you are being "COURTEOUS".
Trail shelters are designed for trail hikers......trail hikers are humans.
If your friendly big dog doesn't like sudden movements or me that is your dog's problem....not mine...but if you are unable to keep your friendly dog from barking and growling at me than that is going to become your problem and you are going to have to do something about it. If you are unable to control your dog or unable to have the common sense to tie your friendly, barking, growling dog to a tree (away from the shelter area) and your friendly, barking, growling dog continues to "instigate" IT is going to become a major, major problem for me to share the shelter with you....
" A FOOTPATH FOR THOSE WHO SEEK FELLOWSHIP WITH THE WILDERNESS "
Not a public dog walking area...But people will continue to take their dogs
I can tolerate people taking their dogs on the trail so long as those dogs are well behaved dogs....well behaved dogs do not bark and growl at hikers and do not exhibit any sign of hostility.....which says an awful lot about the owner of that dog......but I still do not feel that the AT is a place for dogs.
So....next time you set out for a hike on the AT or any other public "hiking" trail please keep in mind that people just like me are going to be using that same trail. People like me who leave the pets at home have the right to hike the trails and use the shelters without the threat or perception of being mauled by a dog.
If you take the dog with you on the trail you also take responsiblity for making sure that dog does not make anyone on the trail uncomfortable....and yes, by just being there your dog will make some people uncomfortable.

If the ATC were ever to consider it and surveyed or held a vote.....dogs would be banned quicker than dogs**t. If dogs were banned from the trail....the trail would get that much better.

Jaybird
04-23-2004, 09:18
keep FIDO @ home!
solves everything

walkon
04-23-2004, 09:49
Bring fido with you!!! i will always take my dog into the woods with me, i take him wherever i go. except work of course. but...
i do realize some people are different, such as spiritwind. spiritwind does not want to pet my stinky dog. 10-4 spiritwind. its all about respect and common courtesy. unfortunately, dog owners and non dog owners will forever be at odds over the correct usage of and place of dogs in the woods.
but just like any other facet of humanity it only takes a few misdirected folks to ruin the game for everyone. someone out there is mistreating their pet for reasons i will not even guess. the pet responds by developing an increasingly primitive attitude that will include unfriendliness and tooth sharpening.
so i would chance a suggestion- if you reach a dog inhabited shelter, and you dont like dogs, and the dog doesnt like you, and nobody likes the dogs owner, move on. youve got your tarp/tent dont you? instead of barging into the mutt infested shelter and just being mad about it, keep going a little bit. how important is staying in the shelter to you? important enough for you to ruin the experience not only for yourself but for the dog as well? never mind the owner.
this post is intentionally spacey because so is the argument, better left for unsolved mysteries.
walkon

Ramble~On
04-26-2004, 00:13
Walkon....read my scenario and what I said about that imaginary incident.

Also, shelters are for hikers. Thank you.
From what you just wrote it sounds as though you expect me and anyone else to accommodate you and your dog..."hike on"
"hike on"....I don't think so.
I'm sure your dog is well behaved and a really cool dog. I doubt there'd be any problems. But what happens when you get to a shelter with your dog and there is another hiker already there with his bigger, mean and nasty dog ?
If it's almost dark and you've just hiked all day are you gonna "hike on"
If not, do you expect all the other hikers in the shelter to be happy with listening to the dogs bark at each other ?
Are you going to find somewhere to set up your tent.... ?
Like I said...I'll be sleeping in the shelter with all the other humans.
Where are you sleeping ?

Also, I don't recall saying I didn't have dogs
And I am positive I never said I hate dogs

loonyhiker
04-26-2004, 06:46
I have had dogs and love them but like people love well disciplined children, dogs should be also. Nothing is worse than being on a hike, relaxing and enjoying nature as a form of relaxing from stress and then being confronted with a barking dog not on a leash. My adrenalin rushes, and the fight or flight response kicks in. This is something that I can not control. People with dogs can control their actions by putting their dogs on a leash. I am constantly thanking and praising those dog owners who I have hiked past who have had their dogs on a leash and actually take their dogs off the trail in order to let me pass. They seem to respect the fact that I may not feel comfortable around them. I think if all people would just respect others, and use good manners by being courteous to others, we all could get along...but that is the fantasy world I guess and this is just my opinion.

walkon
04-27-2004, 09:53
spiritwind, i love dogs and so do you. i never said you hate dogs(although some dogs inexplicably may hate you). i did read your scenario and as both a fan and writer of fiction i thought it lacked in character development as as whole but pretty beleiveable nonetheless. i didnt want to come back to this discussion because i always seem to come off like an "ass" i.e. the at and sex discussion. so grrrrrrrrrr all you want but ill see your grrrrr and raise you a durrrrrrp.
walkon

ted holdridge
04-27-2004, 14:15
My dog will be hiking with me again this year. I agree they have no place in shelters. I agree that they should be held off the trail so that others may pass without worrying about their safety. I will stop at shelters for lunch/dinner break. I will be on the trail. So will my dog. Everyone who has been hiking has had bad experiences with dogs. And people. But they are both welcome on my hike.

flyfisher
04-27-2004, 15:14
I have met several hundred hikers on the AT. None has ever run at me, rubbed against me, yelled at me, or put their nose in my hand.

I have met a couple dozen dogs on the AT. About a third of them have barked at me. Almost all of them not on a leash have nuzzled me, making me wonder if in a casual petting action I was going to be seen as friendly or something to bite. People tell me that dogs can sense when someone is afraid of them and they don't attack unless they get that sense. This does not make me feel comfortable when your pooch smells my palm to see if I am afraid. I hate going into tests that I know I will not pass.

Most of the dogs on leashes, with owners pulling the leash up and away from the trail have looked at me like I was something bad, otherwise why would their owners be protecting them from me. They are only confused about whether I am going to attack their master or whether they are going to attack me.

Once or twice, I was not sure if the owner was going to be able to restrain their dog's lunges at me. The fear in my eyes was reflected in the eyes of the owners.

Even well behaved dogs seem to get in fights with one another. I have never seen hikers draw knives on one another. If I did, I would expect the police to remove both hikers until the situation could be resolved. Why aren't dogs that fight put in jail? Because that behavior is normal. Why bring animals on the trail whose normal behavior is to fight?

I have seen very well behaved dogs on the trail. Probably half of them are absolutely lovable and friendly. However, it is not until the meeting is past that I have known which half this particular dog belonged to.

I have never, never, never, met a hiker with a dog who said: "Be careful, this dog is dangerous. I don't know if I can control him. Don't pet her." So I think some of the owners were not telling me the whole truth.

I worry whenever I see a dog. I don't worry when I see a deer. A deer has never charged me and I have never needed to poke one with my hiking pole to stop a charge. I have never started looking around me quickly for a self protection stick when I saw a deer, or a chipmunk, or a squirrel, or a robin on the path in front of me.

I worry when I see a moose or a bear. They don't have owners that tell me not to worry.

Until those people with less than well behaved dogs stop bringing the pooch to the trail, I will probably show prejudice against your perfectly behaved dog. That is just the way it is.

Oh, and if you do not bring your dog, I will never miss him. Maybe this is a luxury item which should be left at home with the color TV.

To clear the air. I grew up with a dog. That dog bit me and bit my friends. It bit me 4 days from civilization in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area. My parents were very reasonable people that kept the dog until old age finally did him in. They thought it was as reasonable to get rid of this known biter as it would be to get rid of one of their children. So I know that all dogs are not nice. I know that people underestimate the bad behavior their dogs have.

Oh, and the first couple times I ran across bear scat in the middle of the NC trail, I thought it was sort of cool that I was that far in the wilderness. Till I saw the "bears" that left the pile.

I want to like dogs on the trail. I really do. But I don't. I just do not have it in me.

Oh, and if you meet me, my name is not:

Blue Jay
04-27-2004, 15:22
Great post Flyfisher. Best explaination yet for the fear we are forced to accept from Dog People.

Tater
04-27-2004, 15:53
Dogs attack hikers because they like it.

Jack Tarlin
04-27-2004, 16:01
This thread is entitled "Why Dogs Bite Hikers." In nearly every case, dogs bite hikers when their owners have been either too lazy, too stupid, or too thoughtless to train them well BEFORE taking them on the Trail, or when the owners are too lazy, stupid or thoughtless to control the animals once they are out there, or sometimes it's a combination of both.

Dogs that are untrained; dogs that will not respond to voice commands; and dogs that are skittish, overly agressive, or loud should absolutely NOT be taken on the A.T. Dog owners who insist on otherwise are inconsiderate in the extreme.

And speaking about this does NOT make one a dog-hater. The problem is that dog owners refuse to believe their pets are anything but perfect; they also tend to believe that everyone is as thrilled to be around their pets as they are; they also tend to believe that they have an inherent right to do everything and to go everywhere with their pet, regardless of the feelings of others.

By the way, when I see a problem dog on the Trail, I don't blame the dog. I blame the owner. Most Trail dogs I've met were probably better off left at home, but you'll never in a million years get their owners to agree with this, and it is certainly true of most of the Trail dogs I've encountered this spring at Hot Springs. In one memorable incident last week, an owner left an unattended dog in front of a local restaurant where it spent half an hour, whining, barking, and ultimately snapping at a young child. The owner was very lucky not to return and discover a dead dog, which is absolutely what would have transpired had the dog actually bitten someone.

Sadly, this is NOT an atypical story. Most dogs should stay at home.

SGT Rock
04-27-2004, 16:51
Agreed with all the posts about why not to bring dogs. I am a dog owner that loves dogs, yet seeing a dog on the trail is always a tense moment because you never know what they will do until they show what they will do (does that make sense). I even hiked with my dog a few times, but found a lot of reasons not to hike with one, the number one reason not to was the consideration I feel to other hikers on the trail. I still love my dog and miss her, but I am not going to bring her and MAKE other hikers have to deal with all that.

Mountain Dew
04-28-2004, 02:05
Pothead...to answer your question in post #9....

I stopped and backed up untill the owner walked up behind them and Baltimore Jack came up from behind me. Baltimore Jack then began flirting with the two dogs pretty owner and I was free to hike onward. hahahaaaa Thanks Jack !

Jack Tarlin
04-28-2004, 09:00
This is in all likelihood a true story.

Ramble~On
04-29-2004, 05:27
Walkon...Thank You for the english lesson.

It seems you are at odds with more than just me.
You say that dog owners and non dog owners will be at odds over correct usage in the woods.... I disagree.
We are not talking about "the woods" here...we're talking about the AT.
I am mostly talking about shelters....and yes, I am going to "barge" into a mutt infested shelter. "how important is it for me to stay in the shelter"
"ruin the experience for myself, the dog and nevermind the dog owner"
If the dog is already in the shelter it isn't the dogs fault...it is the owners fault and from that the experience is already "ruined"
Ruined by people who have no sense of courtesy towards fellow trail users.
Dogs are allowed on the trail. There aren't signs that say "NO DOGS IN SHELTERS". I can deal with that.
You take your dog with you....that is great...
All I ask is simple courtesy...is your dog on a leash? do you clean up after your dog when it dumps in the middle of the trail? do you step aside with your dog when other hikers pass you ? do you take for granted that your dog is welcome to stay in the shelter ?

pvtmorriscsa
05-03-2004, 17:48
Howdy all,
In surreal life, I deliver pizza for a living. So I get to come into contact with all sorts of dogs. To be honest I am not scared of any dog. Big or small. This bald semian can whip any canine.
In my ten plus years of slinging pizza, I have not been biten once. Although there have been a few close calls. Course I did miss out a tip once when I booted a little yippie dog that wanted to take a piece out of my leg. As you can imagine the owner was furious. I told the guy that he was indeed lucky. If his dog had biten me, I would have sued the s**t out of him.
I guess having been raised around big dogs, and having a father that did a few years as a mail carrier taught me that there was no need to fear them.
Now wild dogs are a different matter in some ways I suppose, but hell I'll take one on.
Bears.....that is what I am really worried about.

Coosa
05-03-2004, 22:26
:jump

Some of you know my WonderDog, Casey. If you were at Trail Days last year, she and I were in the large photo in the Bristol, VA, newspaper regarding Trail Days. Casey usually loves people and is 'motherly' towards other dogs. Occasionally she gets testy with other dogs, but since I can't interpret everything that goes on between and among dogs, I haven't a clue as to why. She has backpacked with me on numerous occasions, but I think she prefers flatwater kayaking to hiking. I have a new dog, a 'rescue' Cocker Spaniel, Crockett, the ManlyDog. I don't know Crockett's history, but he does not warm up to everyone the way Casey does.

Both dogs hike with me (we have not been backpacking as a trio yet) and I've met a number of hikers here in North Georgia while doing so. I am very careful to keep the dogs at a distance from other hikers when passing them on the trail. I try to LNT carefully step off the trail, shorten their leashes, and have them sit. (Well, I say 'sit' but they don't always listen.) Casey usually ignores or wags her tail. Crockett will lunge if given the opportunity. I know this so I keep him on a very short leash.

When I section hike, I will probably bring both dogs with me. I will also bring my Silshelter and their water and food. I will try to follow good LNT practices with their poop. They are learning NOT to drink from streams, but to wait for me to give them water. And I wouldn't think of allowing them near a spring.

That said. I agree that dogs are not the problem. An uneducated public is the problem. The AT is visited by 3 to 4 Million Visitors a year. A very very small percentage of those AT Visitors are Thru or Section Hikers. And a smaller percentage of Thru or Section hikers bring their dog/s. Not to say that WE don't need to be reminded about LNT with OUR dogs. BUT, we would do well in the 'real world' (or the 'other world' because hiking is the 'real world' for some of us) to do our part to educate the public. Check out www.lnt.org for more Leave No Trace information that might be useful.

If we as hikers are not a part of the solution, we're part of the problem. We have to speak up and speak out and educate the public and ourselves. LNT can teach us how to do it politely. And hopefully not get bitten by the dog/s or the owners.

Auntie Coosa
Casey the WonderDog and Crockett the ManlyDog

:jump

Chappy
05-04-2004, 06:20
Howdy all,
In surreal life, I deliver pizza for a living. So I get to come into contact with all sorts of dogs. To be honest I am not scared of any dog. Big or small. This bald semian can whip any canine.
In my ten plus years of slinging pizza, I have not been biten once. Although there have been a few close calls. Course I did miss out a tip once when I booted a little yippie dog that wanted to take a piece out of my leg. As you can imagine the owner was furious. I told the guy that he was indeed lucky. If his dog had biten me, I would have sued the s**t out of him.
I guess having been raised around big dogs, and having a father that did a few years as a mail carrier taught me that there was no need to fear them.
Now wild dogs are a different matter in some ways I suppose, but hell I'll take one on.
Bears.....that is what I am really worried about.
I thought you were worried about Sasquatch! :D

Blue Jay
05-04-2004, 07:34
I don't know Crockett's history, but he does not warm up to everyone the way Casey does.......Crockett will lunge if given the opportunity. I know this so I keep him on a very short leash.

Let me get this straight, you are bringing a dog on the trail that lunges at hikers and the only thing that is keeping him from biting is a leash. For some reason this does not seem like a friendly thing to do to other humans.

Rain Man
05-04-2004, 08:40
... I have a new dog, a 'rescue' Cocker Spaniel, Crockett, the ManlyDog. I don't know Crockett's history....

... Crockett will lunge if given the opportunity. I know this ....

... That said. I agree that dogs are not the problem. An uneducated public is the problem. ....

If we as hikers are not a part of the solution, we're part of the problem. We have to speak up and speak out and educate the public and ourselves....

Auntie Coosa, I apologize, but is this so obvious to me and not to you? You take a dog known to lunge at hikers, and then you claim hikers are part of the problem? I'm sorry, but in this case, it seems you are the problem, not hikers and not your dog. So, I'm "speaking up" and saying so.

Rain Man

.

Ramble~On
05-05-2004, 01:59
The age old debate continues. If one were to read the posts and count those opposed to dogs on the trail and compare that number to those in favor of dogs on the trail it'd be pretty clear that the majority of hikers do not like dogs on the trail. Again, "A FOOTPATH FOR THOSE WHO SEEK FELLOWSHIP WITH THE WILDERNESS". Dogs are no more or less a part of "the real world" than are televisions. If you want to take your dog with you out onto the trail...great but I think you ought to take your television with you too. The weight of the television would be a constant reminder to you that you have chosen to take out into the woods something that most people don't want to encounter on the AT.

Jack Tarlin
05-05-2004, 09:18
Case in point: Yesterday, in Hot Springs, a thru-hiker's dog bit one passerby and lunged at another. All in the space of three minutes, by the way.

I politely asked her to move the dog away from where it could hurt people, in other words, to move it off of store property (the dog was tied to a bench on our driveway).

Her resoponse was to bitch me out royally, to tell me that her dog "was out of the way", and implying that it was the fault of the victims who had somehow antagonized her pet.

She also completely neglected to apologize to the guy who got bitten.

She was easily the most unpleasant person I've met of the several hundred hikers I've met this year.

This proves my point entirely: Trail dog owners, for the most part, cannot imagine that their pets are anything but perfect, and get highly indignant when anyone has the temerity to suggest otherwise. And many of them couldn't care less how their dog's presence impacts other people. And many of of their dogs have either been poorly trained or not trained at all before they hit the Trail; their owners are too lazy, ignorant, or just don't care.

Again: 1. Don't take your dog out on your hike unless it is trained, unless it responds to voice commands, unless it is obediant.

2. Dogs that are skittish or nervous around people should either be left at home, or should never be left unattended.

3. Dogs that are prone to lunge, snap, bark, or bite, should likewise stay at home.

4. Dogs that create problems when they are around people (and being around others is a daily occurence on the A.T.) should not be out here; if they create problems on the Trail or in town, they need to be sent home.

5. Pet owners need to realize that having a pet out here is a privilege and not a right. Once again, this is more of an owner problem than an animal problem, but until I see evidence that more folks are responsible about how their pets behave, I'm afraid that I still have to believe that in most cases, dogs should stay at home.

walkon
05-05-2004, 11:28
spiritwind you got me on the woods vs. AT. i had forgotton that the woods are entirely different than the mighty AT!! the at has its own rules, customs, board of directors and everything. whereas the woods are simply a place to get lost. i love the at and had a great time last spring when i hiked it but i dont place it over or under any other trail i have hiked, dogs or no. my dog is not perfect. the times he has acted inappropriate(which honestly are few and never involve biting) i am extremely embarrassed and do everything i can to right the wrong, including take him home and do some constructive training to try to solve the problem. no beatings, but positive reinforcement.
there have been good posts defining great reasons to leave your dog at home and the next time i am on the at i will definately bring my dog with me.
walkon

pvtmorriscsa
05-05-2004, 12:08
1. Don't take your dog out on your hike unless it is trained, unless it responds to voice commands, unless it is obediant.

2. Dogs that are skittish or nervous around people should either be left at home, or should never be left unattended.

3. Dogs that are prone to lunge, snap, bark, or bite, should likewise stay at home.

4. Dogs that create problems when they are around people (and being around others is a daily occurence on the A.T.) should not be out here; if they create problems on the Trail or in town, they need to be sent home.
Seems like you could replace the word dog with hiker, and be on the way to a hiker code of conduct. Just a thought.

Chappy
05-05-2004, 21:02
Jack,
Was the person with the dog charged with anything?

steve hiker
05-05-2004, 22:11
i don't get mad at hikers, i get even. when a meen hiker snaps at me or when i try to say hi lunges at me or won't give me some of his bowl even when I beg on my too hind legs like some stupid animal i wait till it gets dark.. and i go out and take half a doodoo on thr trail to the stinkhouse and half a doodoo on the trail to the spring.

then when that mean hiker goes to get water for his bowl he steps in it and he yells out oooooo someone took a doodoo here and starts hopping and dragging hsi foot on the grass. Then when that meen hiker goes to the stinkhouse he steps in it again and goes OOOOOO SOMEONE TOOK A DOODOO HERE TOOOOOOOOOOO and when he gets back he says this place is full of doodoo and throws his stuff in his sack and stomps out

Ramble~On
05-12-2004, 05:39
Woof. Woof.

Jaybird
05-12-2004, 08:52
...just completed 8 day section hike (Clingmans to Hot Springs) & encountered several un-leashed dogs on the trail (a collie & a great dane).

I had NO PROBLEMS with them.. but still feel ALL dogs that are taken on the trail should be leashed @ ALL times. Owners seem to be totally oblivious to any conduct other than the perfect behavior that thier "babies" would display around them (the owner).


I wuz a bit concerned when the two day hikers, with the unleashed great dane came close....i said: "Hello" as they passed to show i wuz friendly...they ignored me...& i decided to not press with another friendly greeting (didnt know if the GREAT DANE was hungry or not!)....


Don't we have enuff to think about (bears, bobcats, wolves, cougars, coyotes, etc.,etc.,etc) without having to be worried about YOUR "Precious baby" attacking us.....(..."i dont know why he bit that hiker....he's never done that before!")

Ramble~On
05-13-2004, 03:47
I am far more willing and accepting of encountering and/or having an incident with a bear, boar, snake or moose while hiking the AT. They live there. They are wild animals. They belong there. Some people wouldn't consider hiking without their dog(s). The very least they could do is to have the courtesy to leash their dog(s) and step off the trail when other hikers pass. If the dog(s) bark, growl or snap at hikers they shouldn't be on the trail or in any other public place. Yes, there are 100% totally "cool" dogs and that reflects their owner.
The problem is that you never know a "cool" dog from a dog that wants to bite you. So every dog is suspect....which means that every encounter with dogs on the trail has a degree of "tension" or "stress" that I personally feel shouldn't exist.....especially on the AT.
I think that some people are affraid of being "alone" and their dog fills the gap.
I think that other people view having their dog with them as a means of protection against animals and idiots....in that case the dog is a weapon.
If people are affraid of being "alone" or affraid to the point where the feel that they need to have a "weapon" perhaps the AT isn't the right place for them to begin with.

Percival
05-13-2004, 09:10
A friend of mine went on a canoe trip last weekend. When she and her friend stopped at this "perfect" campsite, they spotted these two mangy rotweillers at the edge of the woods. My friend is a dog person and has been around dogs all her life. She intuitively knows dogs and rarely is frightened by them.

But these dogs were fierce. One of them was frothing around the mouth. They were obviously hunting, and were NOT looking at them the way most dogs look at humans. She is sure that the only thing that saved them from serious injury was getting back in the canoe immediately and paddling away.

Ridge
05-14-2004, 23:34
How bout the dog pee on the trail side vegetation. If you're wearing shorts it will soon be running down your leg and into your boots. I have a dog and cat. They stay at home. Dogs are not allowed in the NP's and should not be allowed on the rest of the AT. Wet smelling dogs in shelters will turn a tired hiker into one that may become violent. My worse encounter was at the fire tower on Albert Mtn. While the unleashed Doberman’s owner was at the top of the tower viewing the scenery, I walked up and yes the dog began to growl and charge I retreated to the highest rock while the owner shouted some stupid commands for it to stop. I had knife drawn and spiked pole ready to defend. I was going to do in the dog and then go after the idiot owner. Dogs do not belong on any hiking trail,esp the AT, they are for the humans. Instead of bringing a dog and causing a fight, leave the dog and just show up for the fight. I would rather see someone carrying a gun for company/security than a dog. Dogs are domesticated and not meant to be among wild animals.

.

Ridge
05-14-2004, 23:39
Will you keep your dog(s) from peeing on the trail side vegatation so it won't run down my legs when I walk by?

Ramble~On
05-15-2004, 06:57
My Dogs, cat, fish, television, stereo and all my other stuff that doesn't belong on the trail stay home.... I've always felt that hiking trails were for hikers.

eyahiker
05-20-2004, 23:42
;) Wow. long thread. Love dogs, have dogs.

Still don't want to set my tent up in a pile of dog poop.......

minnesotasmith
06-07-2004, 00:02
IMO this one was worth rereading.

Pencil Pusher
06-07-2004, 02:57
Maybe it's the water out there on the east coast that turns these dogs and owners into rabid monsters. I guess now I shouldn't frown on JLB for wanting to carry a pistol for the AT. Forget the bears, it's the rabid trail dogs! :p I must be very lucky for not having a problem with dogs on the trail so far.