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gunn parker
12-18-2008, 07:51
Hi All
Please no hard time about my question.
I am writing to you from Australia and I have been listening to A Walk in the Woods. I have enjoyed very much listening to this story and find when I get home after work I look up places mentioned in the story on the net to find more about them

I found the story of Shenandoah and the people who lived there very interesting but I am stuck on one place. The name sounds something like "walace see e" or something.

Can anyone help me with this place please? I am likely to never be able to hike this trail so I live it by research only :)

Thanks
Gunn

Lone Wolf
12-18-2008, 07:56
Walasi-Yi is a place at Neel Gap in Georgia 30 miles north of Sringer Mtn.
http://www.uncommondays.com/states/ga/places/mountaincrossings.htm

The Old Fhart
12-18-2008, 07:59
Try 'Walasi-Yi' which is at Neels Gap, Georgia, 30.7 miles north of Springer Mountain on the Appalachian Trail. This is the first road crossing with good hiker supplies at Mountain Crossings (http://www.mountaincrossings.com/), a full service store with hostel. Up to 10% of the people who start and plan on hiking to Maine drop out by here.

joshua5878
12-18-2008, 08:02
Hi All
Please no hard time about my question.
I am writing to you from Australia and I have been listening to A Walk in the Woods. I have enjoyed very much listening to this story and find when I get home after work I look up places mentioned in the story on the net to find more about them

I found the story of Shenandoah and the people who lived there very interesting but I am stuck on one place. The name sounds something like "walace see e" or something.

Can anyone help me with this place please? I am likely to never be able to hike this trail so I live it by research only :)

Thanks



Gunn
http://www.mountaincrossings.com/ (http://www.mountaincrossings.com/) This AT crossing is in GA, the AT runs through it... I will be there tomorrow on my way back from NC to FL.

Lone Wolf
12-18-2008, 08:02
Try 'Walasi-Yi' which is at Neels Gap, Georgia,

Neel. singular

bloodmountainman
12-18-2008, 08:29
Walasi- Yi is a native American phrase (Chreokee) meaning Big Frog.
There are thousands of Native American place names along the Trail.
Chattahoochee..... painted rock

Nantahala........ noonday sun
Just a few examples

gunn parker
12-18-2008, 08:41
Walasi- Yi is a native American phrase (Chreokee) meaning Big Frog.
There are thousands of Native American place names along the Trail.
Chattahoochee..... painted rock

Nantahala........ noonday sun
Just a few examples

Thanks everyone I'll have a look at the links now. And thanks for the native American explanation of some place names, I thought as much. Very similar to aboriginal names we have here for lots of places.
All the best

Kirby
12-18-2008, 08:55
Neel. singular

Wrong, it's Neel's, as in a guy named Neel owns the gap.

Kirby

gunn parker
12-18-2008, 09:19
In answer to the Neels / Neel gap I found this.

MOUNTAIN CROSSINGS
9710 GAINESVILLE HWY.
BLAIRSVILLE GA 30512
Located 32 miles from the Southern Terminus of the Appalachian Trail at Neel's Gap, Mountain Crossings is a "friend along the way" for the Appalachian Trail Hiker. From our full line of hiking gear and footwear to the comforts of hostel facilities (up to 16 guests) including showers, laundry and groceries, Mountain Crossings is stocked with supplies, support and first hand knowledge of the AT.

Manwich
12-18-2008, 09:28
Neel's Gap OR Neels Gap (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=G6I&q=neels-gap+OR+neel%27s-gap&btnG=Search) : 13,000 results
Neel Gap (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=WRy&q=neel-gap&btnG=Search) : 2,160 results

Forsooth, the Google hath spoken.

Groucho
12-18-2008, 09:40
Neels gap. Most "possessive" geographical names lack the apostrophe.

Lone Wolf
12-18-2008, 09:50
It's NEEL

sheepdog
12-18-2008, 10:03
It's actually Kneels Gap. Because most hikers fall on their knees gasping for air after walking over Blood Mountain.

jlb2012
12-18-2008, 10:32
It's NEEL

All I know is that on the ATC map its Neels Gap. I also checked some map software and it also said Neels Gap. Since both are based on USGS maps I suspect that most people will know the place as Neels Gap. If in fact it is Neel Gap - well all I can say is that it won't be the first mistake on the USGS maps.

Lone Wolf
12-18-2008, 10:33
At Neel gap there's a plaque that says it's NEEL gap

Pedaling Fool
12-18-2008, 10:46
Here's one of the plaques at Walasi-Yi

Lone Wolf
12-18-2008, 10:51
post #38 http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37983&highlight=Neel+gap+plaque&page=2

Pedaling Fool
12-18-2008, 10:58
Neels gap. Most "possessive" geographical names lack the apostrophe.
I don't want to throw my hat into this discussion, but I'm curious why this is?

Groucho
12-18-2008, 13:11
I don't want to throw my hat into this discussion, but I'm curious why this is?


Topo maps have it as Neels. A sign near has Pleasant on one side and on the opposite it has "Pleasan"? We're talking govt. agencies here. Interested in knowing which is correct and who was Neel?

http://www.usgs.gov/faq/list_faq_by_category/get_answer.asp?id=788

gives a little history of possessive usage in maps.

Jack Tarlin
12-18-2008, 13:53
I seem to remember Winton Porter telling me that the original name was indeed "Neel" Gap, hence the spelling on the plaque out front. Many years later, tho, 99% of folks use the plural.

But Wolf is right. The correct historical name is Neel.

Manwich
12-18-2008, 14:00
http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg511/scaled.php?server=511&filename=neelsmx1.jpg&xsize=578&ysize=480

End of Discussion.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

le loupe
12-18-2008, 14:07
didn't quite scale the "S" right, but otherwise a nice job.

Lone Wolf
12-18-2008, 14:08
jerseyhick could do a better job

Jack Tarlin
12-18-2008, 14:18
End of discussion?

Hardly.

You like photos? Try THIS one.

http://www.suite101.com/view_image.cfm/535440

The sign was presumably put up by Mr. Porter, who presumably knows the name of the place where he has chosen to work and live.

Manwich
12-18-2008, 14:42
End of discussion?

Hardly.

You like photos? Try THIS one.

http://www.suite101.com/view_image.cfm/535440

The sign was presumably put up by Mr. Porter, who presumably knows the name of the place where he has chosen to work and live.

It was a joke...

+10 points for all the adults who are actually arguing about this.

Lone Wolf
12-18-2008, 14:43
no arguing here. it's NEEL gap. fact :)

Blissful
12-18-2008, 15:04
I think this is funny, actually...

I mean on the scheme of things in life...uh...


Who cares??? :)

Lone Wolf
12-18-2008, 15:05
you're right Blissfuls

Blissful
12-18-2008, 15:12
you're right Blissfuls



Lone Wolves...now that sounds dangerous in a way and yet sad. Can you see the image of a lonely soul in the wilderness howling at the moon? :)

Serial 07
12-18-2008, 15:28
LOL...man, i laugh out loud and then have to try and explain what's goin' on to those who could care less...but blissfuls, wouldn't it be "lones" wolf? or maybe "lone's" wolf?

Lone Wolf
12-18-2008, 15:30
canada geese not canadian geese

Kerosene Charlie
12-18-2008, 15:32
"Yi" Cherokee for "place of convergence," or "meeting place." Interesting to picture big frogs meeting at Neel Gap. I guess backpackers have been called many things.

Kerosene Charlie

Groucho
12-18-2008, 16:58
no arguing here. it's NEEL gap. fact :)

Look up Neel Gap in the GNIS database; you'll get this:

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=106:2:2427737448323875::NO::: :)

Jack Tarlin
12-18-2008, 17:03
Oh, I get it, if the Government says it, then it must be so. :eek:

Um, not necessarily true.

CrumbSnatcher
12-18-2008, 17:11
At Neel gap there's a plaque that says it's NEEL gap
i'll go with L.W. on this one. it might say neels most places but i believe the facts show neel. i know the sign L.W.s talkin about and i remembering talking with winton once about this. like jack said winton would know. call it what you want i love hanging out there every time i come thru.

bloodmountainman
12-18-2008, 17:41
"Yi" Cherokee for "place of convergence," or "meeting place." Interesting to picture big frogs meeting at Neel Gap. I guess backpackers have been called many things.

Kerosene Charlie
Here's a good one for you. There is a valley outside of Blairsville Ga. known as Chostoe Valley. Chostoe means "land of the dancing rabbits". Kinda makes one wonder what went on in that valley.

Pedaling Fool
12-18-2008, 19:07
Topo maps have it as Neels. A sign near has Pleasant on one side and on the opposite it has "Pleasan"? We're talking govt. agencies here. Interested in knowing which is correct and who was Neel?

http://www.usgs.gov/faq/list_faq_by_category/get_answer.asp?id=788

gives a little history of possessive usage in maps.
Thanks for the link, looks like the reason is lost to history. Though strange how they made certain exceptions.

weary
12-18-2008, 19:35
Neels gap. Most "possessive" geographical names lack the apostrophe.
I think that's a rule imposed by the U. S. Postal Service, which finds apostrophes confusing. Those of us who are gradually eliminating the use of snail mail, can use apostrophes if we want.

Maybe the U. S. Geological survey also frowns on apostrophes. I don't have a topo map handy at the moment, so I can't check.

Weary

daddytwosticks
12-18-2008, 20:22
Neel,s-Gap!?

FatMan
12-18-2008, 21:11
I respectfully disagree with both Wolf and Jack. I concur that it once was named Neel Gap, however names often change through incorrect usage and that is the case here. The area once known as Frogtown Gap and Neel Gap is now officially recognized as Neels Gap. Not because the federal or local government says so, which they do, but because that is what the locals call it and that is all that matters. If the trail did not go through Neels Gap hardly a sole on this forum would know of it.

I recall a conversation on the forum awhile back regarding Cooper Gap Road vs Coopers Gap Road. Again, although Coopers Gap Road can be found on old maps of the area, the official name is Cooper Gap Road. I know. It is my address.

mudcap
12-18-2008, 21:21
I respectfully disagree with both Wolf and Jack. I concur that it once was named Neel Gap, however names often change through incorrect usage and that is the case here. The area once known as Frogtown Gap and Neel Gap is now officially recognized as Neels Gap. Not because the federal or local government says so, which they do, but because that is what the locals call it and that is all that matters. If the trail did not go through Neels Gap hardly a sole on this forum would know of it.

I recall a conversation on the forum awhile back regarding Cooper Gap Road vs Coopers Gap Road. Again, although Coopers Gap Road can be found on old maps of the area, the official name is Cooper Gap Road. I know. It is my address.
I agree 100% .

Bare Bear
12-18-2008, 21:30
Ain't no plural of BareBear. I am just happy to see Jack and LW agree on anything.

FatMan
12-18-2008, 21:39
Ain't no plural of BareBear. I am just happy to see Jack and LW agree on anything.And the funny thing is they are both wrong.;)

Dartman
12-18-2008, 22:05
All of this because Gunn Parker from down under had a question about the name Walasi-Yi. Can you imagine the brouha if we were discussing something really serious like who distills the best bourbon : Jim Beam, Wild Turkey, Old Grand Dad, or Maker,s Mark?

gunn parker
12-18-2008, 22:10
Yes, I am aiad to ask any more questions now about places along the trail :D

The Old Fhart
12-18-2008, 22:27
Oh, and the northern end of the trail is 'Katahdin', not 'Mount Katahdin'. Katahdin means 'greatest mountain' so saying 'Mount Katahdin' means you're saying 'mount greatest mountain'.

Katahdin isn't the original spelling (Ktaadn) of the name either. It got corrupted by Lone Wolf and others over the years since Henry David Thoreau climbed it.;)

weary
12-18-2008, 22:50
....I concur that it once was named Neel Gap, however names often change through incorrect usage.....
Happens all the time. My town was incorporated in 1814 by the Massachusetts' Legislature as "Phipsburg" after Sir William Phips, the area's most illustrious citizen. Phips was born across the Kennebec River from Phippsburg, served as Massachusetts first governor, and convened the Salem witch trials. He eventually halted the trials and released the imprisoned "witches."

Over the decades, his name gradually disappeared. We became "Phippsburg," (three "ps") though the official records tell us we all spell it wrong.

Weary

mudcap
12-18-2008, 23:57
Oh, and the northern end of the trail is 'Katahdin', not 'Mount Katahdin'. Katahdin means 'greatest mountain' so saying 'Mount Katahdin' means you're saying 'mount greatest mountain'.

Katahdin isn't the original spelling (Ktaadn) of the name either. It got corrupted by Lone Wolf and others over the years since Henry David Thoreau climbed it.;)


Now that is Classic! :D

Kaptain Kangaroo
12-19-2008, 06:08
Yes, I am aiad to ask any more questions now about places along the trail :D

Yeah, that's Whiteblaze.....:D You will usually get a sensible answer in the first few posts. If the thread runs on for more than one page.......... it has probably gone feral :)
I understand what you mean though. As an Aussie there was a lot of things about the trail & the places it runs through that had a lot of mystique for me too before my hike. It was an amazing experience to actually hike through all these places I had read so much about. Funny how you build up a mental images of places & then find out that they are totally different when you get there......... For some reason I had this image of Mahoosuc Notch being this crazy, boulder filled gorge running steeply uphill..... then I get to it & find that it is flat (actually slightly downhill when going NOBO...that was a really weird sensation)

Feel free to ask me any questions about the trail. Always glad to help infect someone with white blaze fever !

Cheers,

Kaptain Kangaroo

mudhead
12-19-2008, 07:09
canada geese not canadian geese

Add mooses. My favorite.

Crazy Larry #1
12-19-2008, 07:16
It's NEELAre you sure that isn't "Kneel" your thinking...............?:D

Crazy Larry #1
12-19-2008, 07:22
canada geese not canadian geeseIf you say "Geese" that implies many, but if you say "Goose" that should read as "Canada Goose" which of course you would think of it as one.......

Crazy Larry #1
12-19-2008, 07:25
Gunn,that is impossible as long as LW is on the loose. The guy loves to stir the pot with his negative crap. Finds a fight in every thread. He must sit like a vulture over the keyboard,waiting to pounce.:rolleyes:
Yeah, well guess what? You're next.............;)

gunn parker
12-19-2008, 08:35
Feel free to ask me any questions about the trail. Always glad to help infect someone with white blaze fever !

Cheers,

Kaptain Kangaroo

Hi Thanks for that, so your in Sydney now? I am in Perth.
I doubt if I'll ever get to hike the trail (but you never know :)) and there are so many places that I'd like to find out more about.
For example in the book there is a place mentioned that has quartz rocks sticking up into the air and a river flowing between a hill as if the river cut it in half, But I cannot find it on the net.

Cheers from Perth
Gunn

Pedaling Fool
12-19-2008, 11:45
Why isn't Woody Gap called Woodys Gap

http://ngeorgia.com/ang/Arthur_Woody

sheepdog
12-19-2008, 12:36
Why isn't Woody Gap called Woodys Gap

http://ngeorgia.com/ang/Arthur_Woody

Uh oh, here we go again!!

FatMan
12-19-2008, 14:07
Why isn't Woody Gap called Woodys Gap

http://ngeorgia.com/ang/Arthur_WoodyThat's easy. Because it's not. It never was. But if over the years the locals were to incorrectly use "Woodys Gap" to where that became the more common use, I can assure you the name will be most likely changed to accommodate the current use.

Kaptain Kangaroo
12-19-2008, 15:33
a river flowing between a hill as if the river cut it in half, But I cannot find it on the net.

Cheers from Perth
Gunn

He is referring to the Delaware Water Gap. It really is like the river has cut the mountain in half. You can see this amazing cross-section of the ridge & all the folded rock strata............It's also a nice sight because it means you're out of Pennsylvania ;)

sherrill
12-19-2008, 16:22
Walasi-Yi is a place at Neel Gap in Georgia 30 miles north of Sringer Mtn.
http://www.uncommondays.com/states/ga/places/mountaincrossings.htm

Did you notice that this website has Neels?

Lone Wolf
12-19-2008, 16:24
Did you notice that this website has Neels?

yup but it's wrong. Neel Gap is correct

KG4FAM
12-19-2008, 16:36
Oh, and the northern end of the trail is 'Katahdin', not 'Mount Katahdin'. Katahdin means 'greatest mountain' so saying 'Mount Katahdin' means you're saying 'mount greatest mountain'This plaque says Mount Katahdin. So are the plaques at Mount Katahdin and Neel Gap both wrong?

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_yXrLidG1elQ/RSbkv6OYABI/AAAAAAAAACE/_wkE-d2kPvc/IMG013.JPG

Jack Tarlin
12-19-2008, 16:48
Interesting thread.

Thanx for the Maine history, Weary, tho I feel compelled to relate that Sir William Phips was not the first Governor of Massachusetts. There had been Governors in Massachusetts since 1620, though they were more properly Governors of the Plymouth Colony; the Massachusetts Bay Colony; and the Commonwealth of Masachusetts Bay. Phips' actual title was Royal Governor of the Province of Massachusetts. Also, Phips did not halt the Salem witch trials, nor did he free all of the remaining prisoners. In fact, he only really became an opponent of the witch hysteria when his own wife was charged. Tho Phips did indeed didmiss the main witchcraft trial in October of 1692, there were other trials and other prosecutions while he was Governor, and not everyone was freed. At least one woman died while still in prison in March of 1693. Weary also neglected to tell us that Phips was recalled to London, was charged with maladministration, and died while awaiting to be officially charged.

neighbor dave
12-19-2008, 16:51
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

LIhikers
12-19-2008, 16:55
While you folks argue over punctuation, I'd like to inform gunn parker that the trail in New York State goes right past the Gates Of Heaven :)

rickb
12-19-2008, 16:59
While Jack, LW and at least one sign maker may think differently, the USGS seems to think its Neels Gap. At least that's what they show here:

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=106:2:4315435384530545::NO:::

They do show Neel Gap as a variation, however:

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=106:3:4315435384530545::NO::P3_FID:356662

Perhaps there are no "wrong answers" in this great debate. Though it does look like "Neels" became official by a 1950 decision.

Jack Tarlin
12-19-2008, 17:00
Anybody thought to ask Winton about this?

This would pretty much end the discussion. :rolleyes:

neighbor dave
12-19-2008, 17:03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz7_3n7xyDg

Lone Wolf
12-19-2008, 17:03
Anybody thought to ask Winton about this?

This would pretty much end the discussion. :rolleyes:

not really. he's only been there 8 years or so. he doesn't own the place, the state of georgia does. ask the governor

rickb
12-19-2008, 17:05
The USGS seems to have made an official determination in 1950.

Neels.

rickb
12-19-2008, 17:15
This plaque says Mount Katahdin. So are the plaques at Mount Katahdin and Neel Gap both wrong?

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_yXrLidG1elQ/RSbkv6OYABI/AAAAAAAAACE/_wkE-d2kPvc/IMG013.JPG

Here is the citation for Mount Katahdin

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=106:3:513671149404053::NO::P3_FID:579940

woodsy
12-19-2008, 17:20
Oh, and the northern end of the trail is 'Katahdin', not 'Mount Katahdin'. Katahdin means 'greatest mountain' so saying 'Mount Katahdin' means you're saying 'mount greatest mountain'.


Can't argue with Merriam- Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Mount%20Katahdin) on this issue.
I was born and raised in Maine in a hiking family and it was known as Mount Katahdin in our house.
I've been called out on this before here so just thought i'd set the record straight once and for all.

You folks from away can call it whatever you want:rolleyes: :D !!!

Lone Wolf
12-19-2008, 17:22
it's Baxter Peak

woodsy
12-19-2008, 17:23
It was Pamola before white man.

Jack Tarlin
12-19-2008, 17:30
Actually, Wolf, the term "Baxter Peak" refers only to the actual summit.

The official name of the mountain is indeed "Katahdin".

rickb
12-19-2008, 17:32
The official name of the mountain is Mount Katahdin.

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=106:3:513671149404053::NO::P3_FID:579940

Ramble~On
12-19-2008, 17:35
All of this because Gunn Parker from down under had a question about the name Walasi-Yi. Can you imagine the brouha if we were discussing something really serious like who distills the best bourbon : Jim Beam, Wild Turkey, Old Grand Dad, or Maker,s Mark?

Huh...You didn't even mention Knob Creek, Booker's, Buffalo Trace......
Shame on You!:D

Jack Tarlin
12-19-2008, 17:36
Well, the people who run Baxter State Park certainly think otherwise. :rolleyes:

But who am I to dispute Rick?

Ramble~On
12-19-2008, 17:37
While you folks argue over punctuation, I'd like to inform gunn parker that the trail in New York State goes right past the Gates Of Heaven :)

:-? How many "gates" are there ? Wouldn't it be "Gate of Heaven" ?

and ah, if somebody asks me where the closest ATM machine is I always tell them that I don't know.
I'm not sure but I'm guessing that an ATM machine is a device that produces or services ATMs ?

HOLD IT.....HOLD ON.......Wait a friggin minute.....

Does this thread initially have something to do with "A Walk in the Woods" ?

Jack Tarlin
12-19-2008, 17:39
Come to think of it, and I hope Weary can chime in here, Governor Baxter always called it "Katahdin".

But then what would he know, Rick, I mean he only owned the mountain for awhile.

Ender
12-19-2008, 17:41
:-? How many "gates" are there ? Wouldn't it be "Gate of Heaven" ?

I've been to the Gates of Heaven a couple times, but the last couple of times I've hiked that section, I couldn't find the Gates... I think the trail has been rerouted through that section away from there. Too bad... I always liked to visit Heaven. :p

rickb
12-19-2008, 17:42
Well, the people who run Baxter State Park certainly think otherwise. :rolleyes:

But who am I to dispute Rick?

Not me, Jack. The US Department of the Interior.

Check out that link if you want to learn something :rolleyes:

Alligator
12-19-2008, 17:45
Don't you folks have last minute holiday stuff to take care of?

The Old Fhart
12-19-2008, 17:55
Although even some locals don't know the proper name for Katahdin, you can find it by searching the web (http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock/150219/katahdin.html). According to Baxter State Park Authority (http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/hiking/thru-hiking.html), "The northern terminus of the Appalachian Trail is Baxter Peak on Katahdin, Maine’s highest mountain."

And technically Katahdin is a monadnock (http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/monadnock), as is Mt. Monadnock in NH.

Oh, and if you want to get someone from the west coast livid, say "Sierras".:)

neighbor dave
12-19-2008, 17:59
Come to think of it, and I hope Weary can chime in here, Governor Baxter always called it "Katahdin".

But then what would he know, Rick, I mean he only owned the mountain for awhile.

:-?weak arguement. people own and live in their house for years upon years and never been in the attic or even know what's in it.:rolleyes:

neighbor dave
12-19-2008, 18:00
Although even some locals don't know the proper name for Katahdin, you can find it by searching the web (http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock/150219/katahdin.html). According to Baxter State Park Authority (http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/hiking/thru-hiking.html), "The northern terminus of the Appalachian Trail is Baxter Peak on Katahdin, Maine’s highest mountain."

And technically Katahdin is a monadnock (http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/monadnock), as is Mt. Monadnock in NH.

Oh, and if you want to get someone from the west coast livid, say "Sierras".:)

sorry, it's not mt. monadnock, it's "monadnock"

mudhead
12-19-2008, 18:07
The official name of the mountain is Mount Katahdin.

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=106:3:513671149404053::NO::P3_FID:579940

A few years back the USGS had a couple young hotshots looking for loon nests in the swamp across the road. They may get to claim official, but don't count on them for the end all.

Call it what makes you happy. I can translate. Seen it a number of ways.

rickb
12-19-2008, 18:24
Call it what makes you happy.

I agree 100%.

Sometimes its best to color outside the lines of an "Official" definition and conform to one's own standard.

Like with "2000 Miler".

Personally, I could care less that the Federal Government convened a board to decree that the official name is "Mount" Katahdin.

I will probably always call it just Katahdin. Doing so does make me happy!

Pedaling Fool
12-19-2008, 18:25
Neels gap. Most "possessive" geographical names lack the apostrophe.

I don't want to throw my hat into this discussion, but I'm curious why this is?

Topo maps have it as Neels. A sign near has Pleasant on one side and on the opposite it has "Pleasan"? We're talking govt. agencies here. Interested in knowing which is correct and who was Neel?

http://www.usgs.gov/faq/list_faq_by_category/get_answer.asp?id=788

gives a little history of possessive usage in maps.
Many have referenced governmental documentation to substantiate a "fact". However, government bureaucracies are not a good source for determining fact.

Case-in-Point is the link Groucho provided me when I asked about the lack of a possessive apostrophe used on topo maps. According to the USGS FAQ they do not know why they lack the apostrophe, but they continue to use this standard. W-T-F? Yet, they decided to use the possessive apostrophe for certain other uses.:confused:


Typical Government Bureaucacy.



.

woodsy
12-19-2008, 18:45
The name Mount Katahdin (http://www.google.com/custom?q=Mount+Katahdin&sa=Google+Search&client=pub-2871740088182458&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23660033%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%2366CC00%3B VLC%3A66FF00%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3A339966%3BLBGC%3 A339933%3BALC%3A000000%3BLC%3A000000%3BT%3A330033% 3BGFNT%3A330033%3BGIMP%3A330033%3BFORID%3A1&hl=en) is used far more than some here would like to believe, and thats just the way it is.:p

FatMan
12-19-2008, 18:59
Based upon all the BS in this thread, it's not Springer Mountain, it's Penitentiary Mountain.

Slo-go'en
12-19-2008, 19:00
While you folks argue over punctuation, I'd like to inform gunn parker that the trail in New York State goes right past the Gates Of Heaven :)

Actually, it says "GATE OF HEAVEN". I know, as I have a picture of it:p

Gate of heaven makes more sense anyway, since there is only one gate of heaven, not several.

CrumbSnatcher
12-19-2008, 19:11
Anybody thought to ask Winton about this?

This would pretty much end the discussion. :rolleyes: i asked winton once about this,he told me its neel gap named after the neel family.

KG4FAM
12-19-2008, 19:42
This plaque says Mount Katahdin. So are the plaques at Mount Katahdin and Neel Gap both wrong?I had this picture on here earlier. Don't know what happened, but it disappeared. This is what I was referring to.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_yXrLidG1elQ/RSbkv6OYABI/AAAAAAAAACE/_wkE-d2kPvc/IMG013.JPG

Lone Wolf
12-19-2008, 19:43
still can't see it

Skidsteer
12-19-2008, 19:50
still can't see it

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_yXrLidG1elQ/RSbkv6OYABI/AAAAAAAAACE/_wkE-d2kPvc/IMG013.JPG

Here's the URL if it doesn't show up this time:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_yXrLidG1elQ/RSbkv6OYABI/AAAAAAAAACE/_wkE-d2kPvc/IMG013.JPG

mudhead
12-19-2008, 19:53
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/browseimages.php?do=searchresults&searchid=19979

LIhikers
12-19-2008, 19:54
Actually, it says "GATE OF HEAVEN". I know, as I have a picture of it:p

Gate of heaven makes more sense anyway, since there is only one gate of heaven, not several.

I stand corrected, thanks!
Has anyone in this group read this book sold bY ATC
Appalachian Trail Names

What's in a name? Hundreds of years of American cultural history along the A.T. This concise guide to nearly 1,100 place names will whet your appetite for the deeper stories. https://www.atctrailstore.org/images/imid343L.jpg

KG4FAM
12-19-2008, 20:38
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/browseimages.php?do=searchresults&searchid=19979thank you

rootball
12-19-2008, 21:00
The Neely family. Joshua Neely married Flow Enol in 1856 and three years later the two settled just north of Dahlonega. At the outbreak of the civil war in 1861 Joshua, then 19 years of age, joined the confederate army at Fort Smith. He sent his wife to live with cousins near Sara, GA. In 1862 Joshua returned to his wife and moved to a mountain gap. They farmed and raised cattle. But most noteably was that Joshua charged a toll to drive cattle over his pass. The area soon became known as Neely Gap. Read the wifes name backwards.

woodsy
12-19-2008, 21:27
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/browseimages.php?do=searchresults&searchid=19979
Well there, my pappy and grandpappy weren't lying when one day they told me we going to climb Mount Katahdin (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=8637&).
Must be a locals thing :rolleyes: http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/taunt013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

weary
12-19-2008, 21:56
yup but it's wrong. Neel Gap is correct
You mean as in "30 miles north of Sringer Mtn."

mudcap
12-19-2008, 22:06
Damn Gunn,see what you started! Trouble maker !:D;)

weary
12-19-2008, 22:14
Interesting thread.

Thanx for the Maine history, Weary, tho I feel compelled to relate that Sir William Phips was not the first Governor of Massachusetts. There had been Governors in Massachusetts since 1620, though they were more properly Governors of the Plymouth Colony; the Massachusetts Bay Colony; and the Commonwealth of Masachusetts Bay. Phips' actual title was Royal Governor of the Province of Massachusetts. Also, Phips did not halt the Salem witch trials, nor did he free all of the remaining prisoners. In fact, he only really became an opponent of the witch hysteria when his own wife was charged. Tho Phips did indeed didmiss the main witchcraft trial in October of 1692, there were other trials and other prosecutions while he was Governor, and not everyone was freed. At least one woman died while still in prison in March of 1693. Weary also neglected to tell us that Phips was recalled to London, was charged with maladministration, and died while awaiting to be officially charged.
Jack:

You're the historian. All I claim to know is a little about the history of the town where I've lived for the past 46 years. And where my parents, grandparents and numerous aunts, uncles, cousins, and such, lived for nearly a century.

Well, I did do a quick Google search of our Sir William. Incidentally, those sources claim Sir William was the first governor of Massachusetts. I did not explore all the colonies he may have previously governed. Nor, if truth be known, all that may have happened in England afterwards.

I do know that the Massachusetts Legislature in 1814 rejected the name we summitted for the town to be incorporated as, and instead tried to name us "Phipsburg."

Obviously, a lot of people over the decades disagreed with Massachusett's Legislators, and added an extra "p" in protest -- or perhaps because most of our Phippsburg forebears were mostly illiterate.

Weary

weary
12-19-2008, 23:46
Well there, my pappy and grandpappy weren't lying when one day they told me we going to climb Mount Katahdin (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=8637&).
Must be a locals thing :rolleyes: http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/taunt013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)
Both spellings of Katahdin are attempts by "white" visitors to the moutain to translate the sounds aboriginal people used when speaking of the mountain.

Only those who don't know the aboriginal meaning of the name, add the word Mount before the name of the mountain. No the aboriginals who lived near the mountain, were not "indians." That was just the name applied by early explorers, who wrongly thought they had reached India.

Weary

gunn parker
12-20-2008, 04:24
I've been to the Gates of Heaven a couple times, but the last couple of times I've hiked that section, I couldn't find the Gates... I think the trail has been rerouted through that section away from there. Too bad... I always liked to visit Heaven. :p
Hi
What are the Gates of Heaven?
Thanks

The Old Fhart
12-20-2008, 07:51
It is the Gate Of Heaven (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=14031&c=searchresults&searchid=19984) (click on link to photo gallery). The trail went by the entrance of an old cemetery in a community that disbanded and it is just an overgrown field with the eerie gate standing there as a reminder.

gunn parker
12-20-2008, 08:01
Thanks for that :)

dan8794
12-20-2008, 09:24
LW, I say it's Neel's and, with MUCH PLEASURE, I say you are wrong!

Good day sir

rickb
12-20-2008, 09:42
Repeating Mooslookmeguntic over and over is what gives me much pleasure.

The USGS allows citizens to petition to have the official name of places like Mount Katahdin changed to better reflect reflect historical or local sensibilities.

A whole bunch of places with "Squaw" in their name have had their official name changed recently. That's a good thing, of course, given the inherent disrespect conveyed through the word.

I don't think the AT has any offensive or politically incorrect (in the best sense of that word) features.

Lone Wolf
12-20-2008, 09:46
LW, I say it's Neel's and, with MUCH PLEASURE, I say you are wrong!

Good day sir

nope danny, i'm right. it's Neel

FatMan
12-20-2008, 10:52
nope danny, i'm right. it's NeelLW, I find it very interesting that you feel you, and an old plaque are the only "official" sources on the matter. Either you did not read my previous post, or you are a beligerent hole who thinks you know more than the residents of the area. There have been multiple official sources posted indicating the correct name as Neels Gap. Although there is no way to seach the "North Ga News" website, the North GA News is the paper of record for Union County and they refer to it as Neels Gap. I suspect you are just stirring the pot as you do so well, but you are wrong and I do not appreciate you diseminating incorrect information about the area of my residence. I am curious, what other official sources do you consider on the matter, or are you the only one.

Here's another source for you:

http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-2406

Names change over time through useage. Get over it and accept the fact that it is Neels Gap.

Pedaling Fool
12-20-2008, 11:06
Hey Fatman,

Your whole premise seems to be based on the wishes of the locals, or more adeptly, the mistakes of the locals. In an earlier post you conceded that the gap was originally "Neel", but locals started calling it "Neels".

Why did they start calling it "Neels"? Seems to me it was not their wish, rather their mistake. So why does that make it all right?

FatMan
12-20-2008, 11:29
Hey Fatman,

Your whole premise seems to be based on the wishes of the locals, or more adeptly, the mistakes of the locals. In an earlier post you conceded that the gap was originally "Neel", but locals started calling it "Neels".

Why did they start calling it "Neels"? Seems to me it was not their wish, rather their mistake. So why does that make it all right?Whose wish are you referring to, the Neel family or the locals? Does it matter if it is a mistake? Who do you suggest has the final say?

Its not a matter of right, it is a matter of is. Wishes and mistakes are not relevant to the matter. The name Neels is accepted and the government recognized name today. I think it is a great bit of trivia that its earlier use was Neel, but that is historical trivia. Is the argument here that names never change? That argument is folly as names have always changed throughout history. And why do they change, it is either by a government officially changing the name, or by use. Look, I don't care if you call it Neel, or Neels. But I am bothered that some here from far away places seem to be experts on the topic. There is little doubt that the area was named for Neel, and rightfully it should be called Neel, but it is not. I don't understand the mentality of this forum when they fight the obvious. As I stated in an earlier post, Coopers Gap road vs Cooper Gap road has been argued here on WB. I know it is Cooper Gap road. The county sends my tax bill to that address every year as it is the address of record in the County Courthouse. How can that be argued. It is what it is. If you all choose to continue with this silliness have at it.

Pedaling Fool
12-20-2008, 11:55
Whose wish are you referring to, the Neel family or the locals? Does it matter if it is a mistake? Who do you suggest has the final say?

Its not a matter of right, it is a matter of is. Wishes and mistakes are not relevant to the matter. The name Neels is accepted and the government recognized name today. I think it is a great bit of trivia that its earlier use was Neel, but that is historical trivia. Is the argument here that names never change? That argument is folly as names have always changed throughout history. And why do they change, it is either by a government officially changing the name, or by use. Look, I don't care if you call it Neel, or Neels. But I am bothered that some here from far away places seem to be experts on the topic. There is little doubt that the area was named for Neel, and rightfully it should be called Neel, but it is not. I don't understand the mentality of this forum when they fight the obvious. As I stated in an earlier post, Coopers Gap road vs Cooper Gap road has been argued here on WB. I know it is Cooper Gap road. The county sends my tax bill to that address every year as it is the address of record in the County Courthouse. How can that be argued. It is what it is. If you all choose to continue with this silliness have at it.
You answered my question with not just one question, but numerous questions. So I'll leave it here:

If it's not a matter of "right", rather a matter of "is" than Neel "is" what it will be called.

Jack Tarlin
12-20-2008, 12:32
So Rick doesn't think there are any offensive or politically incorrect place names on the Trail?

Hmmmm.

When speaking to a woman, the next time Rick refers to a "Chunky Gal" or to a "Big Butt", I'd love to be a fly on the wall to catch her response. :D

There are actually any number of unusual place names on the Trail.

Also, some really unusal, totally unique ones.......like Low Gap, Sassafrass Gap, Rattlesnake Knob, etc.

rickb
12-20-2008, 12:37
Geesh.

Thanks for citing some good examples.

Mostly official, BTW.

Lone Wolf
12-20-2008, 13:21
LW, I find it very interesting that you feel you, and an old plaque are the only "official" sources on the matter. Either you did not read my previous post, or you are a beligerent hole who thinks you know more than the residents of the area. There have been multiple official sources posted indicating the correct name as Neels Gap. Although there is no way to seach the "North Ga News" website, the North GA News is the paper of record for Union County and they refer to it as Neels Gap. I suspect you are just stirring the pot as you do so well, but you are wrong and I do not appreciate you diseminating incorrect information about the area of my residence. I am curious, what other official sources do you consider on the matter, or are you the only one.

Here's another source for you:

http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-2406

Names change over time through useage. Get over it and accept the fact that it is Neels Gap.

i'm not a "beligerent hole", no name calling by the way. i'm not stirring any pot. it's Neel gap. period

mudhead
12-20-2008, 13:31
Look, I don't care if you call it Neel, or Neels. But I am bothered that some here from far away places seem to be experts on the topic. There is little doubt that the area was named for Neel, and rightfully it should be called Neel, but it is not. I don't understand the mentality of this forum when they fight the obvious.

I hereby nominate FatMan for honorary dual citizenship from the fine State of Maine.

Unless he was roaring down 75, got yanked by the Staties, and when the trooper asked if he had any ID, he said: "bout what?"

FatMan
12-20-2008, 13:39
i'm not a "beligerent (sic) hole", no name calling by the way. i'm not stirring any pot. it's Neel gap. periodOK, I apologize. Obviously if you say so it must me right. :rolleyes:

daddytwosticks
12-20-2008, 15:21
Hey, all you holes out there (me too), let's not forget my favorite just north of Winding Stair Gap (or is it Winding Stairs...). "Swinging Lick Gap". Merry Christmas (or is it Happy Holidays?). :)

Pedaling Fool
12-20-2008, 15:37
Lick my... (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=18160&c=member&imageuser=6936)

KG4FAM
12-20-2008, 15:58
Well if we are talking about lick's then how about Young Lick Knob

max patch
12-20-2008, 16:44
Neels

weary
12-20-2008, 21:47
i'm not a "beligerent hole", no name calling by the way. i'm not stirring any pot. it's Neel gap. period
Well, I'm certainly convinced that Neel Gap was once the name. I remain unconvinced about any of the suggestions about what is NOW the name.

Weary

Lone Wolf
12-21-2008, 00:28
Well, I'm certainly convinced that Neel Gap was once the name. I remain unconvinced about any of the suggestions about what is NOW the name.

Weary

Neel. NOW

CrumbSnatcher
12-21-2008, 00:30
(maybe theres more E's or a extra N OR SOMETHING but there is no S) NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL GAP APPALACH'UN TRAIL USA

rickb
12-21-2008, 09:07
Any name can change through usage. Caroline Kennedy Schlosberg just became Caroline Kennedy again. A name is simply what we choose to call someone or something.

Official names don't change because of popular usage, however. Or even because the elite prefer another one.

If one wants to change the official name of a recognized geographical feature, there is a legal process for that.

Caroline Kennedy Schlosberg realized that an official/legal name can just be ignored where it suits. There was no reason practical reason for her to do things officially.

Similarly LW and other can ignore the legal/official name of a gap where it suits them.

No big deal. Its just a gap. Another low point on the AT.

Lone Wolf
12-21-2008, 09:19
it was Neel before your official govmint designation. NEEL it is

Tin Man
12-21-2008, 09:46
it was Neel before your official govmint designation. NEEL it is

based on a sign? you never see a typo or mistake on a sign?

http://www.myroadsign.com/uploaded_images/phoeinx-730557.jpg
http://geekswithblogs.net/images/geekswithblogs_net/sdorman/5006/o_1603459.jpg
http://muttonsworld.blogspot.com/2008/11/classic-road-sign-error-problems-of.html

Tin Man
12-21-2008, 09:58
it was Neel before your official govmint designation. NEEL it is

okay, NEEL Lone Wolf :D

Marta
12-21-2008, 10:10
There is a tendency for words and phrases to mutate from harder-to-pronounce to easier-to-pronounce.

The "L" in Neel is pronounced with the middle of your tongue low in your mouth and the tip of your tongue behind your upper teeth. The "G" in Gap is pronounced with the middle of your tongue high up in your mouth and the tip behind your lower teeth. When you pronounce "S," your tongue is halfway between the two, making it a good transitional sound.

The tendency to add an "S" is there for ease of pronunciation as much as for meaning.

Same thing for Carters Gap vs. Carter Gap. Whereas Woody Gap already has a transitional sound in place, so adding an "S" would just make it harder to pronounce.

To take the discussion in yet another direction, English placenames are riddled with disparities between spelling and pronunciation. "Worcester" come to mind.

PS--Threads "gone feral." I love it!

Pedaling Fool
12-21-2008, 10:16
There is a tendency for words and phrases to mutate from harder-to-pronounce to easier-to-pronounce.

The "L" in Neel is pronounced with the middle of your tongue low in your mouth and the tip of your tongue behind your upper teeth. The "G" in Gap is pronounced with the middle of your tongue high up in your mouth and the tip behind your lower teeth. When you pronounce "S," your tongue is halfway between the two, making it a good transitional sound.

The tendency to add an "S" is there for ease of pronunciation as much as for meaning.

Same thing for Carters Gap vs. Carter Gap. Whereas Woody Gap already has a transitional sound in place, so adding an "S" would just make it harder to pronounce.

To take the discussion in yet another direction, English placenames are riddled with disparities between spelling and pronunciation. "Worcester" come to mind.

PS--Threads "gone feral." I love it!
Marta,
You're just too damn smart to be wasting your talents here.:)

Tin Man
12-21-2008, 10:19
I betcha the Neel family, if you could ask them, could give a rat's ass. Or is that rat?

Marta
12-21-2008, 10:28
Marta,
You're just too damn smart to be wasting your talents here.:)

This info is courtesy of my daughter, who is working on a PhD in Russian, so has spent considerable time studying phonetics. She is here for the holidays.

I should be out hiking, instead of sitting here at the 'puter, but my knee hurts. :mad:

Tin Man
12-21-2008, 10:34
http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles/a195_m5.jpg

Tin Man
12-21-2008, 10:44
http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles/a282_s14.jpg

jlb2012
12-21-2008, 11:36
I suspect that the root if this naming issue goes back to 1890 when the US Board on Geographic Names was created - initially the changes that the BGN made in place names were mainly to shorten the names - for example xxxxburgh became xxxxburg, xxxxborough became xxxxboro - the case for this issue however is that possessives such as xxxx's yyy were shortened to xxxx yyy

see link : http://www.carnegielibrary.org/exhibit/hname6.html

Ultimately some of these decisions were reversed or modified as appears to be the case with Neel Gap - according to the record below Neels Gap was changed as the name for the feature in 1996

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=gnispq:3:1367241341386171::NO::P3_FID:356662

Tin Man
12-21-2008, 11:54
there was a whole hulabalo on a street near me. the sign says shepherds way. town says shepherds way. the post office says shepards way. many of the people were up in arms when the town govt. and the us govt. couldn't agree. another town has shepherds street, so i can see why the post office wanted a different name since it is so hard to tell what town the mail is going to. :rolleyes:

well, if people told folks shepherds way, their mail went to a different town. if people told folks shepards way, they got their mail. when they asked me, i said sounds simple to me. when pressed, i said i don't give a flock. :)

CrumbSnatcher
12-21-2008, 12:02
TINMAN, those two pictures are funny **** thanks for the laugh. go steelers!!!

Pedaling Fool
12-21-2008, 12:22
...Ultimately some of these decisions were reversed or modified as appears to be the case with Neel Gap - according to the record below Neels Gap was changed as the name for the feature in 1996

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=gnispq:3:1367241341386171::NO::P3_FID:356662
"Phase I data compilation, or staff research on non-controversial names..."

And they thought this was a non-controversial decision :D

jlb2012
12-21-2008, 12:29
compared with the Pittsburg/Pittsburgh stuff Neel/Neels Gap is non-controversial

CrumbSnatcher
12-21-2008, 13:14
compared with the Pittsburg/Pittsburgh stuff Neel/Neels Gap is non-controversialyour right! marry christmas:D

Pedaling Fool
12-21-2008, 13:19
your right! marry christmas
It's "you're" not "your":eek::D

CrumbSnatcher
12-21-2008, 13:23
thanks john, marry christmas to you too.

Groucho
12-21-2008, 13:38
Ultimately some of these decisions were reversed or modified as appears to be the case with Neel Gap - according to the record below Neels Gap was changed as the name for the feature in 1996

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=gnispq:3:1367241341386171::NO::P3_FID:356662

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Further on the page given above in Board on Geographic Names Decisions are listed two other official decisions: 1-Frogtown Gap, 1940; and Neels Gap, 1950.
Here is a ref to an old postcard on sale on ebay which does show Neel Gap. http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-RPPC-Postcard-Lake-Trahlyta..Vogel-Neel-Gap,Georgia_W0QQitemZ220319365334QQcmdZViewItemQQi msxZ20081127?IMSfp=TL0811271110002r10563 Also, the Vogel State Park website refers to the gap as Neel; though on the map they use it is Neels.





Did anyone other than the Road and Recreation Association call this Neel Gap?

Any other history on this important subject would be appreciated.

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=106:3:7518816003195912::NO::P3_FID:1482904 lists a variant name for Damascus as Mocks Mill. Since the government never approved this name and Damascus is the official govmint designation, I suppose that Mocks Mill is the best trail town on the Appalachian Trail.:D

Pedaling Fool
12-21-2008, 13:53
This is what I love about "controversy", all the neat stuff that gets dredged up.

FatMan
12-21-2008, 14:46
"Phase I data compilation, or staff research on non-controversial names..."

And they thought this was a non-controversial decision :DIt is non-controversial. Only on WB could this be an issue. It is Neels Gap, and everyone seems to accept it as such except for one person. I might suggest that LW petition those with much more power than he to have the name changed back to his liking.

Lone Wolf
12-21-2008, 14:48
nah. it's Neel gap

FatMan
12-21-2008, 15:12
nah. it's Neels Gap

troglobil
12-29-2008, 21:05
Give it up Fat Man, it is like arguing with a three year old. He refuses to accept the fact that the agency with the authority to decide on the proper name has settled the decision back in 1950.

Lone Wolf
12-29-2008, 21:07
Give it up Fat Man, it is like arguing with a three year old. He refuses to accept the fact that the agency with the authority to decide on the proper name has settled the decision back in 1950.

prior to 50 it was Neel. it remains Neel

Lone Wolf
12-29-2008, 21:08
prior to 50 it was Neel. it remains Neel

but it's your choice to call it Neel's. just add the apostrope

FatMan
12-29-2008, 21:19
nah. it's Neels Gap

Lone Wolf
12-29-2008, 21:21
nah. it's Neels Gap

you weren't even born and raised in georgia :rolleyes::)

Tin Man
12-29-2008, 21:24
you weren't even born and raised in georgia :rolleyes::)

neither were you :)

FatMan
12-29-2008, 21:33
you weren't even born and raised in georgia :rolleyes::)OK, you got me on that one. Only a Georgian by choice for the past 30+ years.:)

It's Neels Gap.;)

Lone Wolf
12-29-2008, 21:35
It's Neels Gap.;)

only as far as you're concerned

Tin Man
12-29-2008, 21:37
only as far as you're concerned

him, plus most publications and the gov't, that's all

FatMan
12-29-2008, 21:39
Me and the rest of the world minus LW.

Tin Man
12-29-2008, 21:42
Don't forget the plaque says Neel Gap.

bloodmountainman
12-29-2008, 22:15
It's Frogtown Gap

FatMan
12-29-2008, 22:28
It's Frogtown GapYep, used to be that too. I heard an ol' timer call it that just the other day.:)

Bulldawg
12-29-2008, 22:31
you weren't even born and raised in georgia :rolleyes::)


OK, you got me on that one. Only a Georgian by choice for the past 30+ years.:)

It's Neels Gap.;)

Bulldawg here, born and raised in Georgia, only 20 air miles from the Gap in question for 34 years.


only as far as you're concerned


Me and the rest of the world minus LW.

I have to agree with LW here FatMan. I have called it Neel Gap most of my life, and I am indeed a "LOCAL". Problem with your insistence of the "locals" calling it Neels is that most folks up in them mountains, they ain't "locals", except the address!


It's Frogtown Gap

Now there is a name I have also known it by. Place of the the great frog, Cherokee translation of Walasi Yi. So lets just give up the damn argument and call it by what the indians, the true "locals" called it, WalasiYi or place of the great frog. The name Frogtown is a perversion of the Cherokee myth about a great frog, Walesi (or Walasi), who guarded Blood Mountain, which the Cherokee considered to be holy. The name Walasi-yi literally means "Place of the Great Frog," and was the name of a small Cherokee village on the slopes of Blood Mountain. The gap was known as Frogtown Gap, until the Appalachian Trail was built perpendicular to Frogtown Gap Trail, an old Indian path.

Tin Man
12-29-2008, 23:15
Is there a blue blaze around this here gap? :)

Bulldawg
12-29-2008, 23:20
Sure there are, several in fact. Would you like the names?

Tin Man
12-29-2008, 23:24
Sure there are, several in fact. Would you like the names?

not for me just yet, it will be a few years before i finish ME, NY, NJ, PA, MD, WV, etc...

Bulldawg
12-29-2008, 23:26
not for me just yet, it will be a few years before i finish ME, NY, NJ, PA, MD, WV, etc...

So are you white blazing all those places? or blue blazing, or yellow blazing, or better yet; pink blazing??

Tin Man
12-29-2008, 23:35
So are you white blazing all those places? or blue blazing, or yellow blazing, or better yet; pink blazing??

white blazed from NY to the Whites, where the blue blazes are better - more peaks, fewer begging thru-hikers. no yellow for me. i tried pink blazing, but all i get is a laughter.

Bulldawg
12-29-2008, 23:38
I am a blue blazer, ya know hiker trash outcast, myself. I usually start at Neel Gap being as how I am there often!!

Tin Man
12-29-2008, 23:51
looking forward to doing NEEL gap someday. :)

FatMan
12-29-2008, 23:55
Bulldawg here, born and raised in Georgia, only 20 air miles from the Gap in question for 34 years.

I have to agree with LW here FatMan. I have called it Neel Gap most of my life, and I am indeed a "LOCAL". Problem with your insistence of the "locals" calling it Neels is that most folks up in them mountains, they ain't "locals", except the address! Now c'mon Bulldawg. The locals I'm talking about are named Gooch, Justus, and Tritt. The Mountains and Gaps in this area took their names from these families way back when the only road north through the mountains was the Logan Turnpike. It doesn't get more local than that. Besides me, there is only one other "ain't local" in the area I live. In fact it was Hoyt Gooch who called it Frogtown Gap just the other day. And these folks call it Neels, most likely because it easily rolls off the tongue. This was pointed out in an earlier post.

And you know Mt. Airy/ Cornelia isn't really local to Neels Gap. More like 25 miles as the crow flies, and a couple of counties away. I suspect their are as many people in Mt Airy who know where Neels Gap is as there are people in Suches/Lower Union County who know where Mt Airy is, and that isn't too many. Habersham/Stephens (sorry, don't know which county Mt Airy is in) is worlds away from Union when it comes to being "local".

BTW, you said you called it Neel Gap most of your life, what did you call it the other times.;)

SassyWindsor
12-30-2008, 00:00
Maybe the name Neel Gap has been changed to Neels Gap.

After all, Damascus, VA use to be called/named Mock's Mill, VA untill the late 1800's when it was renamed to Damascus.

FatMan
12-30-2008, 00:08
Maybe the name Neel Gap has been changed to Neels Gap.

After all, Damascus, VA use to be called/named Mock's Mill, VA untill the late 1800's when it was renamed to Damascus.SassyWindsor, no one is disputing the gap has been referred to as Neel Gap in the past. However, the correct official name as I write today is Neels Gap. And there have been a mulitude of links to authoritative websites indicating it as such.

This is really just blow hard internet playing around. It really doesn't matter what anyone wants to call it. After all, it is just a gap between a couple of mountains.

Tin Man
12-30-2008, 00:14
SassyWindsor, no one is disputing the gap has been referred to as Neel Gap in the past. However, the correct official name as I write today is Neels Gap. And there have been a mulitude of links to authoritative websites indicating it as such.

This is really just blow hard internet playing around. It really doesn't matter what anyone wants to call it. After all, it is just a gap between a couple of mountains.

you have been wrapped :D lighten up already :cool:

Bulldawg
12-30-2008, 00:30
Now c'mon Bulldawg. The locals I'm talking about are named Gooch, Justus, and Tritt. The Mountains and Gaps in this area took their names from these families way back when the only road north through the mountains was the Logan Turnpike. It doesn't get more local than that. Besides me, there is only one other "ain't local" in the area I live. In fact it was Hoyt Gooch who called it Frogtown Gap just the other day. And these folks call it Neels, most likely because it easily rolls off the tongue. This was pointed out in an earlier post.

And you know Mt. Airy/ Cornelia isn't really local to Neels Gap. More like 25 miles as the crow flies, and a couple of counties away. I suspect their are as many people in Mt Airy who know where Neels Gap is as there are people in Suches/Lower Union County who know where Mt Airy is, and that isn't too many. Habersham/Stephens (sorry, don't know which county Mt Airy is in) is worlds away from Union when it comes to being "local".

BTW, you said you called it Neel Gap most of your life, what did you call it the other times.;)

Damn, you got me, according to Google Earth it is 27.01 miles from my back porch to Frogtown Gap. In my world, that is fairly local. Couple that with the fact that I also spent a very large portion of my childhood in Cleveland, GA. Ya know the next town down the road from Frogtown Gap. I think your other question has been answered in this post.


you have been wrapped :D lighten up already :cool:

Yeah, damn, it's just a place name. I vote we call it Frogtown Gap from here forward. That solves all the argueing. On top of that, that surveyor wasn't named Neels, his name was Neel!!! Did he own the Gap or what??

Bulldawg
12-30-2008, 00:34
Google Earth is fun. Just FYI everyone who is wondering since he questioned my air mile distances. The entire trail in Georgia ranges anywhere from 40.11 miles at Springer, to 20.07 at Tray, to 32.11 at the state line from my back porch. Nice feature that Google Earth has.

Tin Man
12-30-2008, 00:42
Google Earth is fun. Just FYI everyone who is wondering since he questioned my air mile distances. The entire trail in Georgia ranges anywhere from 40.11 miles at Springer, to 20.07 at Tray, to 32.11 at the state line from my back porch. Nice feature that Google Earth has.

Got that beat. I don't have wings, but I am 13.5 road miles from the AT in NY and 14.5 in CT. :)

bloodmountainman
12-30-2008, 09:01
While on the subject of place names, I have a question that came up this weekend. What is the meaning of the Blueridge Swag? Located between Unicoi Gap and Dicks Creek Gap in Ga.:confused:

TomWc
12-30-2008, 10:28
according to Appalachian Trail Names, Swag is a local term for sag, a low saddle ridge.

FatMan
12-30-2008, 13:24
Bulldawg here, born and raised in Georgia, only 20 air miles from the Gap in question for 34 years.

I have to agree with LW here FatMan. I have called it Neel Gap most of my life, and I am indeed a "LOCAL". Problem with your insistence of the "locals" calling it Neels is that most folks up in them mountains, they ain't "locals", except the address!Sorry Bulldawg, but it looks like you have just jumped on the LW bandwagon. They reason I asked what you called it the other times is because your comment above does not jive with your previous posts.

I quote you from the following thread:

That was kind of a joke based on an old thread here from a few weeks back. I had thought it was Neels for YEARS. And I live 20 miles from the place!!http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=665600&highlight=Neels#post665600

And the following"

I just call the thing Mountain Crossings, Walasi-Yi, Winton's place, Neel's Gap, Frogtown Gap, the rock store at Blood Mountain; everybody around here knows where I am talking about except the non-hikers don't understand the "Winton's place" nomenclature.http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=641522&highlight=Neels#post641522

And another 42 of your posts found in the search where you called it Neels.

So which is it? Most of your life or the last few months after the previous Neels Gap thread? I took the liberty to search the forum and your predominant use has been Neel's prior to the thread.

BTW, I do agree that Cleveland is local. So I have no doubt that you thought it was Neels for years. All of your writings show a preponderance of the evidence up to just a few months ago. So what changed?

Lone Wolf
12-30-2008, 13:26
crissakes :rolleyes: give it up already

kanga
12-30-2008, 15:43
Sorry Bulldawg, but it looks like you have just jumped on the LW bandwagon. They reason I asked what you called it the other times is because your comment above does not jive with your previous posts.

I quote you from the following thread:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=665600&highlight=Neels#post665600

And the following"
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=641522&highlight=Neels#post641522

And another 42 of your posts found in the search where you called it Neels.

So which is it? Most of your life or the last few months after the previous Neels Gap thread? I took the liberty to search the forum and your predominant use has been Neel's prior to the thread.

BTW, I do agree that Cleveland is local. So I have no doubt that you thought it was Neels for years. All of your writings show a preponderance of the evidence up to just a few months ago. So what changed?


law, you sure do have alot of time on your hands. why don't you go take a hike or something? ;)

FatMan
12-30-2008, 16:32
Kanga, funny you should say that. I just got back from a hike with the dogs. What an absolutely beautiful day. Mid 60's, light breeze, and not a cloud in the sky. Had to take my windshirt off after about half a mile and wished I was wearing shorts. Lots of folks out on the trail today and loving it. Too bad it is going to cool down quite a bit by tomorrow for New Years Eve on Springer.:)

kanga
12-30-2008, 16:36
it'll be cold as all get out, but hopefully it will still be blue and sunny! leaving out first thing in the morning. YAY!

MOWGLI
12-30-2008, 16:38
How many trail angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Bulldawg
12-30-2008, 16:38
God lawrd, I give up. You Win!!! Hurrah, throw a party, drink a few cold beers, get stoned. I will call it whatever I want to call it and try my best not to offend you with what I call it. In fact, with all this hullabaloo about a name, ****, I may just steer clear of the place all together!!

FatMan
12-30-2008, 16:42
Bulldawg, I just got back from a hike and poured a cold one. The next one will be for you.;):)

Tin Man
12-30-2008, 17:17
God lawrd, I give up. You Win!!! Hurrah, throw a party, drink a few cold beers, get stoned. I will call it whatever I want to call it and try my best not to offend you with what I call it. In fact, with all this hullabaloo about a name, ****, I may just steer clear of the place all together!!

blue blaze around the place name arguments and hike where you want. :)

Bulldawg
01-02-2009, 17:12
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/5/3/5/4/dsc08321.jpg

Worldwide
01-02-2009, 17:14
The engraver screwed up and forgot the "s"

Dances with Mice
01-02-2009, 17:22
Yep. That's the plaque at Neel's Gap.


http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/5/3/5/4/dsc08321.jpg

Alligator
01-02-2009, 17:28
Less filling:p.