View Full Version : The Appalachian Trail Conservancy
Wise Old Owl
12-18-2008, 22:24
The Appalachian Trail Conservancy is the only organization that has responsibility to protect and promote the A.T. experience. Established in 1925, the ATC has cared for the world's most famous long-distance hiking trail for over 80 years. Running 2,175 miles from Maine to Georgia, the A.T. is the nation's longest national park. ATC coordinates the management and protection of the Trail in conjunction with the National Park Service Appalachian Trail Park Office.
Over the last couple of years membership is down and they need new folk and old to reinvest in the future of the AT, for future generations. Currently the membership is in the high 30,000’s, Donations are greatly needed for future projects, Donations are being used to improve community awareness, trying to involve neighbors to appreciate what passes though their town or community, Other projects do involve the handicapped to have small sections wheel chair accessible. School programs have been implemented to increase awareness for future generations.
Future projects of the Appalachian Trail Conservancy include the idea of moving the trail away from the north part Pearisburg away from all the industrial areas. Fighting the encroachment in WV,MD, & PA with with easements & donations of land. Your donation or membership this Christmas will go a long way to make the trail a better place for future generations to enjoy what we have.
Please take a moment and read the webpages provided,
Click here.
www.appalachiantrail.org (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/www.appalachiantrail.org)
I just reinstated my membership to the AMC. I've been a member of the Sierra Club for the past four years, I may have to reinstate my ATC membership.
earlyriser26
12-19-2008, 08:01
Been a member since 1974 and now donate extra every year. After I retire in a few years I hope to take a more active role.
I'm a member of ATC.
I thought the name change and image change a few years ago was supposed to solve the dwindling membership problems and tap into a whole new demographic of young people. In my opinion the changes were a mistake then, haven't changed my mind yet.
Not only is ATC feeling the pinch, but most non-profits are also feeling it. If you haven't joined/donated/ or otherwise supported your favorite trail club or other non-profit, now would be a good time to make an end of the year end gift.
yet there is no issue raising millions for one road crossing in pa
:-?
yet there is no issue raising millions for one road crossing in pa
:-?
It's much easier to raise money for a project such as a new facility then it is to raise money for ongoing operating expenses like salaries and routine maintenance.
It's much easier to raise money for a project such as a new facility then it is to raise money for ongoing operating expenses like salaries and routine maintenance.
if it is such a big problem, they need to get on the horn to some more fat cats and do some arm twisting. the ones who can will pony up. i ain't no fat cat, but they did call me.
FritztheCat
12-19-2008, 09:37
For military and civil service folks, you can donate to the ATC through the Combined Federal Campaign. I didn't know this until this year when I sat down and actually went through the catalogue of charitable organizations.
sheepdog
12-19-2008, 10:21
if it is such a big problem, they need to get on the horn to some more fat cats and do some arm twisting. the ones who can will pony up. i ain't no fat cat, but they did call me.
A whole bunch of little people can do more than a fat cat. We don't need no stinkin fat cats!!!
I belong.
ofthearth
12-19-2008, 12:29
A whole bunch of little people can do more than a fat cat. We don't need no stinkin fat cats!!!
I belong.
Misguided :rolleyes: It takes a village ;)
Chenango
12-19-2008, 13:08
I threw a little extra in this year to the ATC. Every dollar helps.
RedneckRye
12-19-2008, 14:05
They could save alot of money if they would stop sending me junkmail every couple of weeks. ATC seems sort of like the boy who cries "WOLF". It has gotten to the point where I've stopped opening anything but the magazine and the one every year that says "Your Membership Expires This Month!".
Lone Wolf
12-19-2008, 14:07
They could save alot of money if they would stop sending me junkmail every couple of weeks. ATC seems sort of like the boy who cries "WOLF". It has gotten to the point where I've stopped opening anything but the magazine and the one every year that says "Your Membership Expires This Month!".
agree. i get the same every few weeks. i ain't been a memmber for 4 or 5 years
Lion King
12-19-2008, 15:25
agree. i get the same every few weeks. i ain't been a memmber for 4 or 5 years
This is so funny.
I got home from the ADT hike to visit Mom last night and I had, I kid you not, about 40 mailers from ATC, PCT and Sierra Club.
Each included a AT/PCT/SC sticker or personal mailing labels, numerous info pamplets, patches, professionally done photos on postcards, etc..
Now THAT when mailed out to 30,000+ people every month from all three (Or more) groups has to cost millions a year.
combined.
How about this...
A simple postcard with a photo of Katahdin with basic paragraph explaining how much your support means to others who are trying to reach the Holy Grail AT MTN or whatever?
Just a thought.
Lone Wolf
12-19-2008, 16:19
This is so funny.
I got home from the ADT hike to visit Mom last night and I had, I kid you not, about 40 mailers from ATC, PCT and Sierra Club.
Each included a AT/PCT/SC sticker or personal mailing labels, numerous info pamplets, patches, professionally done photos on postcards, etc..
Now THAT when mailed out to 30,000+ people every month from all three (Or more) groups has to cost millions a year.
combined.
How about this...
A simple postcard with a photo of Katahdin with basic paragraph explaining how much your support means to others who are trying to reach the Holy Grail AT MTN or whatever?
Just a thought.
you're $30 per year membership pays for that not for land protection
you're $30 per year membership pays for that not for land protectionATC does very little land protection -- and never has -- except that it fought for the federal purchase of the trail corridor back in the 60s, that kept the trail from becoming mostly a long road walk. ATC has aided in the purchase of occasional small buffers to the trail corridor. But they have never had the resources to do big land protection things.
What your dues and donations do is provide a service organization for the 30 or so maintaining clubs. Without the ATC there would not be a uniform trail. Each maintaining group would gradually go off on their own. The ATC presence is invaluable to the Maine Appalachian Trail Club. They provide the knowhow to deal with the National Park Service, funnel us money for special projects, and generally keep us on the ball.
I too had misgivings about the ATC renaming and reorganization a few years back. I never believed that it would result in the rejuvenation they had anticipated. And, it hasn't. But that's not an excuse to not renew your membership, or continue your donations.
It's a critically needed organization, essential to the maintenance of the Appalachian Trail.
Weary
They provide the knowhow to deal with the National Park Service...this reminds me of office space (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baMuCkYoAU8)
They probably do some good, but I get tired of seeing ATC junk mail in my box as well.
Jack Tarlin
12-19-2008, 16:59
If one is interested in helping protect, safeguard, maintain, and permanently ensure the continued existence of the Appalachian Trail, then there is nothing one could do that would be more significant than joining, assisting, supporting, and regularly donating to the A.T.C. The Trail would never have existed without this organization; it would never have lasted as long as it has; and more to the point, its continued existence would be imperiled without it. If you still have some Christmas shopping yet to do, consider giving a great gift to the Trail: Join the ATC.
For info: www.appalachiantrail.org
Outdoor organizations asking for money to cut down trees to print more mailers. Interesting.
Lone Wolf
12-19-2008, 17:59
a moratorium on shelter building would save tons of money
skip a party stop once in awhile and donate instead would solve all the fund raising problems :D
I always assumed shelter building was a decision made by the local maintaining clubs. I doubt the ATC allocates much money for shelter construction.
Jack Tarlin
12-19-2008, 18:05
Weak argument. Shelters these days are just about ALL built with private donations, often from the family and friends of the person in whose honor the shelter has been named. Much of the funding also comes from private individuals, private hiking clubs, or private organizations, such as colleges.
Weak argument. Shelters these days are just about ALL built with private donations, often from the family and friends of the person in whose honor the shelter has been named. Much of the funding also comes from private individuals, private hiking clubs, or private organizations, such as colleges.
It's not a weak argument at all. People say they want to donate to build a new shelter, the ATC could come back with "what a great idea that is but we have a more urgent need over here that I would like to tell you about..."
Jack Tarlin
12-19-2008, 18:16
Tin Man:
A lot of people who donate to shelter construction (especially memorial shelter construction) often end up getting involved with the Trail in other ways as a result. Many end up joining local Trail clubs and/or the ATC itself.
Lone Wolf
12-19-2008, 18:17
his thread will degenerate soon
Jack Tarlin
12-19-2008, 18:19
Actually, the thread only began to degenerate when folks started sniping at the Conservancy, and some folks wil do just that whenever the Conservancy is mentioned.
Sound familiar, Wolf? :-?
Tin Man:
A lot of people who donate to shelter construction (especially memorial shelter construction) often end up getting involved with the Trail in other ways as a result. Many end up joining local Trail clubs and/or the ATC itself.
Yeah, I understand that, but perhaps the ATC would benefit if they headed off the shelter projects and discussed more urgent needs with those looking for a memorial type project.
Actually, the thread only began to degenerate when folks started sniping at the Conservancy, and some folks wil do just that whenever the Conservancy is mentioned.
Sound familiar, Wolf? :-?
The ATC is needed and I donate, no question. It would seem that donations could be better managed, that's all. Seriously, how can the ATC say they are falling short when they allow donors to put trough a 1.x million road crossing project?
max patch
12-19-2008, 18:54
The ATC is needed and I donate, no question. It would seem that donations could be better managed, that's all. Seriously, how can the ATC say they are falling short when they allow donors to put trough a 1.x million road crossing project?
ATC didn't pay for the tunnel.
ATC didn't pay for the tunnel.
never said they did
My family decided to have an alternative to traditional gift giving which usually involves shopping this holidays season.
Each was supposed to pick a charity or oranization they thought was worthwhile to donate to, and people give money in their name, rather than getting another necktie/gift card/coffee table book/insert your least favorite piece of junk. Money isn't exactly falling from trees these days and we figured others needed more than us.
My step-father found an organization that assists military families, my brother a Toronto based homeless organization (where he lives) and my girlfriend a fundraiser to combat the reduction of NYC after school programs at public schools that our governor has proposed.
Besides for my New Orleans based organization, I had people donate to various trail clubs: ATC, NYNJTC, PCTA. For me its been easy to warrant my laziness by saying there are too many to support and I don't have disposable income to renew. But, the trail clubs need or money to continue doing good things. Of course there are overhead costs and Promotional materials, but I do believe the clubs do benefit the trails.
Don't mean to be preachy, just offering an alterative idea for the holidays. It's fun to collaborate with family on something other than collusive shopping to fill our houses with more stuff
Okay, maybe this project was a poor example as it looks like the taxpayers of PA paid for it... However, it would appear to me that the ATC could be more active in influencing where donations could be put to the best use. In my opinion, building shelters is not a priority.
From ATC website...
Route 944 was identified as one of 22 potentially hazardous road crossings for Appalachian Trail hikers in a 2003 study by the National Highway Safety Administration. ATC received a grant from the community conservation partnership program of the department of conservation and natural resources and contracted with engineering-design firm HRG, Inc., to plan and design the underpass. The Commonwealth’s department of transportation funded the project through transportation enhancement funds while ATC Regional Director Karen Lutz took on the contracting and oversight responsibilities.
max patch
12-19-2008, 19:05
never said they did
You most certainly did!!!
You said: Seriously, how can the ATC say they are falling short when they allow donors to put trough a 1.x million road crossing project?
Not only did the ATC NOT pay for the tunnel, the actual cost of the 1.3 million dollar project came in at $572,000.
CrumbSnatcher
12-19-2008, 19:09
proud life member of A.T.C. and ALDHA. i can only hope they use the money the best ways they can. i send in extra money every now and then but i prefer to do trail maintenance. my favorite is hardcore but i'll throw down the pack and help out if i run into a work party along the trail.
You most certainly did!!!
You said: Seriously, how can the ATC say they are falling short when they allow donors to put trough a 1.x million road crossing project?
Not only did the ATC NOT pay for the tunnel, the actual cost of the 1.3 million dollar project came in at $572,000.
I said 'allowed donors' in the context of allowing direct funding of a project which is different than the ATC paying for it from donations into their coffers. But I retracted that as a bad example after reading where the donation came from. My apologies to the ATC.
... i prefer to do trail maintenance. my favorite is hardcore but i'll throw down the pack and help out if i run into a work party along the trail.
that's cool. i intend to do the same after i am done my work with the scouts.
Lone Wolf
12-19-2008, 19:23
so i'm told the ATC doesn't spend money on shelters or buying land. what do they spend it on?
so i'm told the ATC doesn't spend money on shelters or buying land. what do they spend it on?
employees who make sure the boundaries are not violated and making sure the local clubs divert donations to rebuilding shelters and road crossings :D
The Appalachian Trail Conservancy (ATC) is the only organization that has responsibility to protect and promote the A.T. experience. Established in 1925, the ATC has cared for the world's most famous long-distance hiking trail for over 80 years. Running 2,175 miles from Maine to Georgia, the A.T. is the nation's longest national park. ATC coordinates the management and protection of the Trail in conjunction with the National Park Service Appalachian Trail Park Office.
Programs: As the entity responsible for managing the Trail, the ATC has specific programs related to conservation, community outreach, volunteers, advocacy, and education. These signature programs include the day-to-day maintenance and management, as well as new initiatives to engage more citizens as volunteers.
Trail Resources: As the first national scenic trail, the A.T. and its volunteers and managers have led the way in establishing trail resources that include policies on trail use and management, books on sustainable trail building and maintenance, manuals, volunteer training, and solid foundation of maps and GIS information related to the Trail.
Trail Management: Trail management is the coordinated effort of the ATC, the National Park Service, the USDA Forest Service, 30 Trail-maintaining clubs and other local and state partners. The management of the Trail includes policy and planning parameters conceived and reviewed by ATC's Stewardship Council before they are taken to the ATC Board of Directors for approval. It also includes the Local Management Planning Guide, boundary monitoring, local stewardship of the Trail by volunteers, and advocacy related to protecting the Trail from threats.
Volunteer Tools: The ATC has a dedicated resource of volunteers who contribute more than 196,000 hours a year to benefit the Appalachian National Scenic Trail. In order to manage and coordinate the 6,000 volunteers, ATC recruits new volunteers, provides trainings and workshops for skill-building, and publishes the quarterly volunteer resource magazine The Register online.
proud life member of A.T.C. and ALDHA. i can only hope they use the money the best ways they can. i send in extra money every now and then but i prefer to do trail maintenance. my favorite is hardcore but i'll throw down the pack and help out if i run into a work party along the trail.
Hope you and anyone else who volunteers man hours does so through official channels. Besides providing you with accident insurance, your hours translates into real dollars to the Conservancy.
Officially report every hour you work, travel time included!!!! Please!
so i'm told the ATC doesn't spend money on shelters or buying land. what do they spend it on?
Fund raising?
The Commonwealth’s department of transportation funded the project through transportation enhancement funds
That's the U.S. not the PA taxpayer. Drop in the bucket even compared to "rails to roads" TE funds, much less the parent highway fund. In the meantime the maintaining club needs a few hundred bucks to match a grant to buy a new mower to care for the rest of the Valley. Like someone said, money to cut ribbons, not for ongoing maintenance.
Dances with Mice
12-19-2008, 22:43
so i'm told the ATC doesn't spend money on shelters or buying land. what do they spend it on?Why Mr. Wolf, I didn't know you were so interested in the ATC and its budget.
I happen to know someone considered* to be an expert on the ATC, its budget and how its monies should be best spent. I'll make sure he gets in contact with you.
It might be awhile before that can happen though. He's offline at the moment starting a hike in Alabama with his girlfriend. But when they get to Damascus I'll make sure he drops by your house to spend lots of time talking with you about this topic.
No need to thank me. I know how much this will be appreciated. I'll send him an e-mail now.
(* by himself)
Wise Old Owl
12-19-2008, 23:15
They could save alot of money if they would stop sending me junkmail every couple of weeks. ATC seems sort of like the boy who cries "WOLF". It has gotten to the point where I've stopped opening anything but the magazine and the one every year that says "Your Membership Expires This Month!".
What... you havn't got the PM from White Blaze - that says "Your Membership Expires This Month!"?
Allthough most mailers are badly written. It is up to you, your dollars make a difference. Here at WB and the AT
CrumbSnatcher
12-19-2008, 23:15
Hope you and anyone else who volunteers man hours does so through official channels. Besides providing you with accident insurance, your hours translates into real dollars to the Conservancy.
Officially report every hour you work, travel time included!!!! Please!
the last time i was at hardcore.(offical channels) the NFS paid the trail club, for the work 100 volunteers -16 hours each(2 days)- $8.00 an hour. alot of barley and hops since bob peoples told me this, i could be wrong. jack would know. and yes any time i did trailwork,it was an offical organized work/trail crew party or whatever. LYLE you made me pause and think for a minute.was i tricked into cutting a bunch of lumber, for someones fire place.:-?wood poachers? flash backs are a bitch sometimes!
Lone Wolf
12-19-2008, 23:27
Why Mr. Wolf, I didn't know you were so interested in the ATC and its budget.
I happen to know someone considered* to be an expert on the ATC, its budget and how its monies should be best spent. I'll make sure he gets in contact with you.
It might be awhile before that can happen though. He's offline at the moment starting a hike in Alabama with his girlfriend. But when they get to Damascus I'll make sure he drops by your house to spend lots of time talking with you about this topic.
No need to thank me. I know how much this will be appreciated. I'll send him an e-mail now.
(* by himself)
flacidity is a word somewhere.
Bulldawg
12-19-2008, 23:30
flacidity is a word somewhere.
Those poor potatoes....:(:(
Wise Old Owl
12-19-2008, 23:30
a moratorium on shelter building would save tons of money
Uhh no, most shelter building is complete, (not about to change) the ATC only feeds the folk that put the shelters together.
Uhh no, most shelter building is complete, (not about to change) the ATC only feeds the folk that put the shelters together.
shelter building is a continual project. As the old ones deteriorate, they are replaced with new ones every so many years. repeating past mistakes makes no sense if the monies could be diverted to more urgent issues.
when the ATC calls or writes and asks for more money than i give already, it is hard to say yes when I see and hear about where some of the money is going and where other's donations outside of the ATC are going. if the ATC is hard up for urgent projects, they could get the message out, "hey, I hear you want to rebuild this shelter, instead of donating to that project, please considering donating to the ATC so we could do xyz. we will take your picture and put up a plaque for all your help."
just saying :)
ofthearth
12-20-2008, 09:44
I guess the AT is like WB. Some people donate to keep it going and some people don't :D. Just saying. :rolleyes:
Read Awol's book where he describes a 15 minute phone call by some ATC employee who ignored him while he needed to ask a simple question. Awol on the AT. I think your $$$ go for salary for people who work at keeping their jobs. I would like to see what their budget looks like, with total transparency for salary, etc. For instance, what does the head ATC guy/gal make? Bet it is six figures.
No one is getting rich working for ATC. It's a living....and a labor of love.
I think your $$$ go for salary for people who work at keeping their jobs.
Maybe you can cite some examples to back up that rather harsh, and in my opinion, inaccurate statement.
Why Mr. Wolf, I didn't know you were so interested in the ATC and its budget.
I happen to know someone considered* to be an expert on the ATC, its budget and how its monies should be best spent. I'll make sure he gets in contact with you.
It might be awhile before that can happen though. He's offline at the moment starting a hike in Alabama with his girlfriend. But when they get to Damascus I'll make sure he drops by your house to spend lots of time talking with you about this topic.
No need to thank me. I know how much this will be appreciated. I'll send him an e-mail now.
(* by himself)
That's cold. :p
I flipped MATLT (http://www.matlt.org/what-we-do/high-peaks) a one hundred dollar check recently for the continuing High Peaks Initiative nearby, a special area (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=30077) (click on photo to enlarge) where i have spent a good amount of quality time over the years, and i also contribute annually to the Maine trail club.
Money well spent IMO.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=30077
Here is a statement describing where some of the corporate and family bequests have channeled funds. If funding is such an issue, the ATC could revisit the priorities, see where changes could be made, and communicate to future donors where the funds are needed most.
http://blueandwhitecrew.org/files/2007%20G2C%20guidelines.pdf
The ATC publishes their budget in their mag, AT Journeys. If someone has a copy handy, maybe they could share it. I may have recycled mine.
Jack Tarlin
12-20-2008, 12:20
Jorel:
Their budget, annual expenditures, and executive salaries are public information. There's no mystery about it.
And the fact that the head of the ATC makes "six figures" doesn't mean that much.
I know plumbers who make that much.
Fact is, compared to many other environmentally oriented non-profits, the ATC pays its staff quite modestly, and this includes its top staff.
Jorel's mean-spirited post above (#54) is way out of line.
The ATC publishes their budget in their mag, AT Journeys. If someone has a copy handy, maybe they could share it. I may have recycled mine.
How about this:
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2007/526/046/2007-526046689-040db223-9.pdf
People need to consider that the full-time employees are counting on the ATC for their primary income. This may be a labor of love, and as such, most employees are willing to make some compromises. The fact remains, that as with the rest of us, most have a family to support and bills to pay. To expect a person to dedicate full-time effort (often more than just what is generally considered full-time) for sub-standard pay and benefits is unrealistic and counter-productive to making progress for the trail. It results in frequent turn-over and loss of productivity.
Yes, we may volunteer our time and energy, but we also do it when convenient for us, not when demanded by the trail. We depend on other sources to pay the electric bill. I've been involved with trail organizations for several years now in a volunteer administrative position and I have not met a single full-time employee of either a trail organization or government administrator who does not go well beyond the required time and effort. This is because for the vast majority it is both a labor of love and a JOB.
As far as the comments about fund raising. Yes direct mail campaigns are expensive. It's a fine balance between money spent and money received. I'm quite sure the ATC evaluates this with every mailing and would not continue if the overall benefit weren't there.
Regarding re-directing donors. It's difficult or impossible to dictate where folks are willing to spend their dollars and for what specific projects. Is the ATC to stop accepting donations because they are earmarked? Most appeals go out for general funding requests in my experience, they may highlight a specific project as an example, but I believe most organizations prefer donations to the general fund, and this IS what they request most.
If anyone is truely interested in how the trail is administered, go ahead and get involved. Few trail organizations do not welcome volunteers with open arms, both on actual work projects, and in the administartion also. Find out when the next board meeting is and attend. See what some of the dilemas are that are facing the Conservency. Volunteer in one of the regional offices, see how hard the paid employees are working, and what kind of demands for their time they deal with. Volunteers (myself included at times) can be VERY demanding of the paid employees. It is a tough aspect of working for an organization that uses both paid and volunteer workers.
If you think there is a problem, get involved. Find out first hand what's going on. I don't think anyone can argue that ATC and many other trail organizations aren't doing a fantastic job with very little. Most professional trail builders and administrators are amazed when they see what the volunteer organizations can accomplish, and how quickly, when given the ok.
Jack Tarlin
12-20-2008, 12:52
Thanx, Rick, good work.
A quick perusal of this document reveals that there is ONE person at the ATC earning over six figures, and the ammount earned is $100,577, which isn't exactly high in the six figures.
The big surprise is to see how many key folks (Directors, Treasurers, Secretaries, Vice Chairmen, etc.) are not compensated at all.
Like zip, nada, nothing.
Jorel's comment above was worthless. Nobody takes a job at the ATC to get wealthy.
Dances with Mice
12-20-2008, 13:49
Thanx, Rick, good work.
A quick perusal of this document reveals that there is ONE person at the ATC earning over six figures, and the ammount earned is $100,577, which isn't exactly high in the six figures.That's all? For managing a $5 million'ish budget across however many states, a hq and 4 regional offices? He must have a significant amount of love for his job because nobody and I mean nobody in my Corporation with that level of responsibility would change places with him.
That number is total compensation, btw, not salary and is less than, say, most McDonald's district managers earn. If anyone doesn't know the diff between compensation and salary they need to learn before accepting any position that doesn't pay by the job or by the hour.
Jack Tarlin
12-20-2008, 13:55
Everyone I know at the ATC has a significant love for their job, or they wouldn't bother to be employed there, which is why I get angry when I see hurtful and mean-spirited comments by ignorant people.
Read Awol's book where he describes a 15 minute phone call by some ATC employee who ignored him while he needed to ask a simple question .
Gee, I wonder what the simple question could have been. Is my drop box there, can you go look?
Jack Tarlin
12-20-2008, 14:10
I doubt that was the question.
Hiker drops are clearly visible when you get there and there's no reason to have anyone on the staff retrieve them for you.
In any case, it seems a sort of petty thing to mention in a book.
I doubt that was the question.
Hiker drops are clearly visible when you get there and there's no reason to have anyone on the staff retrieve them for you.
In any case, it seems a sort of petty thing to mention in a book.
Yeah, I know they're clearly visible but not over the phone. Maybe someone that's read the book can chime in.
....They (ATC) probably do some good, but I get tired of seeing ATC junk mail in my box as well.
Yup. As Jack has reminded us, the "some good" that ATC provides is to keep the trail in existence, to fight the critical battles, to provide the leadership when critical issues arise.
And the junk mail? It's sent because experience shows that is the only way to get trail freeloaders, who are great at finding plausible excuses, to donate. All that stuff you call "junk mail" provides the money needed to keep the essential services that ATC provides available.
Weary
I flipped MATLT (http://www.matlt.org/what-we-do/high-peaks) a one hundred dollar check recently for the continuing High Peaks Initiative nearby, a special area (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=30077) (click on photo to enlarge) where i have spent a good amount of quality time over the years, and i also contribute annually to the Maine trail club.
Money well spent IMO.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=30077
Many thanks!
Weary, MATLT founding director and past president.
www.matlt.org
Wise Old Owl
12-20-2008, 16:47
That's the U.S. not the PA taxpayer*. Drop in the bucket even compared to "rails to roads" TE funds, much less the parent highway fund. In the meantime the maintaining club needs a few hundred bucks to match a grant to buy a new mower to care for the rest of the Valley. Like someone said, money to cut ribbons, not for ongoing maintenance.
*Pennslyvania is not a state, it is a "Commonwealth" and it is the taxpayer that put the funds together. not Foestry Dept or Government.
a moratorium on shelter building would save tons of money
Personally, I would stop shelter building. But in Maine at least, shelter building is done by the Maine maintaining club -- not ATC. As long as we can stay within the ATC and NPS requirements, we can do whatever we want. Whenever a new shelter is proposed. I vote against it at the MATC board meetings.
I tend to be outvoted. But even if by chance I win a vote, it won't help ATC. We raise the money, provide the volunteer labor and build it. ATC gives us nothing that helps the process.
I strongly suspect that the same is true for other maintaining clubs.
Lone Wolf. you truly need to get involved with the board of directors of your local maintaining club, so you wouldn't make these mistakes.
Weary
Uhh no, most shelter building is complete, (not about to change) the ATC only feeds the folk that put the shelters together.
I doubt if ATC even does that. The feed, if any, I suspect, comes from the local maintaining club. At least that is true in Maine. But in Maine we don't even provide food -- not even chain saw gas -- right alone human gas generating substances.
Weary
If I remember correctly, which is usually problematic, the Hardcore feed last year was paid for out of AT license fees from North Carolina. Jack could clarify this.
I’ll try to respond to some of the issues raised in this thread:
If you’d prefer not to receive donation requests from ATC, you can contact our membership dept. and opt out of those mailings(
[email protected] or 304-535-6331).
Like it or not, donations generated by our mailings to members are one of our largest revenue sources.
The underpass at PA 944 was built with Pennsylvania transportation funds, not ATC funds, although our regional director’s time (paid for by ATC members) was required to oversee this project that benefits not just A.T. hikers per se, but members of the local community. Multiple partners were involved, including the local volunteer club, but I doubt this project would have been undertaken or completed without ATC. As is typical in a number of A.T. projects, ATC did the very unglamorous work of planning, oversight, and probably grant-writing. This kind of work requires endless meetings, phone calls, emails and all the accounting headaches that go along with such a project. ATC often does the complex behind-the-scenes administrative stuff that is required so volunteers can dig in the dirt and hikers can just hike. Keep in mind the A.T. is not only a national park, but at the same time a collection of over 60 different parks and forests and other agencies (and 30 different trail clubs) spread out over 14 states. ATC makes sure that everything works, answering to the government agencies on one side and volunteers and hikers on the other.
As Weary indicates, some clubs are, in fact, are remarkably self-sufficient. ATC helps each of the 30 different clubs in different ways, providing whatever resources are needed most in that area, whether it's trail crews, skills training, assistance marking or clearing their boundaries, responding to encroachments, dealing with new trail-related legislation, funding, producing maps and guidebooks, providing technical expertise, etc.
I do feel bad that AWOL had to wait for 15 minutes to have a simple question answered at ATC HQ. I believe that is a pretty rare situation, but I can’t say that occasionally someone may have to wait longer than we’d like. In the information department, we have two staff members to greet and assist 14,000 visitors and hikers, answer approximately 10,000 information requests by email, answer thousands of information calls in addition to incoming calls, process several hundred 2,000-miler applications, update the hiking info part of the website, contribute to hiking publications, respond to the media when it relates to hiking information, update portions of the website--in addition to giving presentations, participating in events, running a retail store, etc. We do have an amazing corps of volunteers who assist us in almost all of these things, but now and then we may one person who ends up having to cover all the bases. That person can get stretched pretty thin. The good news is that we have more and more volunteers (some even come full-time for months at a time) and that really helps us be more responsive.
ATC does not build shelters. We provide guidelines and oversight that includes making sure that the environmental and cultural assessments are conducted. ATC favors primitive structures and has led the effort to introduce more sustainable campsites into the A.T. overnight system.
I hope everyone has the opportunity to see a few white blazes over the holidays!
Laurie Potteiger
ATC
Wise Old Owl
12-20-2008, 19:25
That's all? For managing a $5 million'ish budget across however many states, a hq and 4 regional offices? He must have a significant amount of love for his job because nobody and I mean nobody in my Corporation with that level of responsibility would change places with him.
That number is total compensation, btw, not salary and is less than, say, most McDonald's district managers earn. If anyone doesn't know the diff between compensation and salary they need to learn before accepting any position that doesn't pay by the job or by the hour.
I chuckled at the thought, As my wife said "just because the company has filed bankrupcy in the past doesn't mean you wouldn't do business with Donald Trump!" My other thought was look how many in the past, took a pay cut to be President of the United States!
From the post above **Thank You Laurie!
ATC does not build shelters. We provide guidelines and oversight that includes making sure that the environmental and cultural assessments are conducted. ATC favors primitive structures and has led the effort to introduce more sustainable campsites into the A.T. overnight system.
I hope everyone has the opportunity to see a few white blazes over the holidays!
Laurie Potteiger
ATC
Great note Laurie. Thanks for jumping in to clarify things. On this last bit, could you clarify "cultural assessments", "primitive structures" and "sustainable campsites"? Thanks again.
Tin Man
Wise Old Owl
12-20-2008, 19:36
So Laurie what do we need to do to get a few folk to sign up for membership?
I’ll try to respond to some of the issues raised in this thread:
If you’d prefer not to receive donation requests from ATC, you can contact our membership dept. and opt out of those mailings(
[email protected] or 304-535-6331).
Like it or not, donations generated by our mailings to members are one of our largest revenue sources.
The underpass at PA 944 was built with Pennsylvania transportation funds, not ATC funds, although our regional director’s time (paid for by ATC members) was required to oversee this project that benefits not just A.T. hikers per se, but members of the local community. Multiple partners were involved, including the local volunteer club, but I doubt this project would have been undertaken or completed without ATC. As is typical in a number of A.T. projects, ATC did the very unglamorous work of planning, oversight, and probably grant-writing. This kind of work requires endless meetings, phone calls, emails and all the accounting headaches that go along with such a project. ATC often does the complex behind-the-scenes administrative stuff that is required so volunteers can dig in the dirt and hikers can just hike. Keep in mind the A.T. is not only a national park, but at the same time a collection of over 60 different parks and forests and other agencies (and 30 different trail clubs) spread out over 14 states. ATC makes sure that everything works, answering to the government agencies on one side and volunteers and hikers on the other.
As Weary indicates, some clubs are, in fact, are remarkably self-sufficient. ATC helps each of the 30 different clubs in different ways, providing whatever resources are needed most in that area, whether it's trail crews, skills training, assistance marking or clearing their boundaries, responding to encroachments, dealing with new trail-related legislation, funding, producing maps and guidebooks, providing technical expertise, etc.
I do feel bad that AWOL had to wait for 15 minutes to have a simple question answered at ATC HQ. I believe that is a pretty rare situation, but I can’t say that occasionally someone may have to wait longer than we’d like. In the information department, we have two staff members to greet and assist 14,000 visitors and hikers, answer approximately 10,000 information requests by email, answer thousands of information calls in addition to incoming calls, process several hundred 2,000-miler applications, update the hiking info part of the website, contribute to hiking publications, respond to the media when it relates to hiking information, update portions of the website--in addition to giving presentations, participating in events, running a retail store, etc. We do have an amazing corps of volunteers who assist us in almost all of these things, but now and then we may one person who ends up having to cover all the bases. That person can get stretched pretty thin. The good news is that we have more and more volunteers (some even come full-time for months at a time) and that really helps us be more responsive.
ATC does not build shelters. We provide guidelines and oversight that includes making sure that the environmental and cultural assessments are conducted. ATC favors primitive structures and has led the effort to introduce more sustainable campsites into the A.T. overnight system.
I hope everyone has the opportunity to see a few white blazes over the holidays!
Laurie ATC
Laurie. Many thanks. I'm not an authority on these things. I've served on the MATC board for a decade or so, been a volunteer for several decades. But I don't pretend to be an expert on such matters. All i can post is my impressions of reality. Please! when I'm wrong, say so.
I'm not embarrassed about being wrong. I am embarrassed when people in the know, fail to correct my mistakes, for fear they may embarrass me.
Weary
I'd love to!
When a "cultural assessment" is conducted it means an archeologist studies a site to make sure there was no sign of significant human activities of historic interest, such as artifacts from native Americans, the Civil War, etc.
The term "primitive structure" is the umbrella we use to describe shelters and privies. You can read more about what "primitive" means in relation to them in our "Locating and Designing A.T. Shelters and Formal Campsites" policy at appalachiantrail.org/policies (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/policies.).
By "sustainable campsite" I mean one that's built to minimize impacts over the long term and won't expand into one giant denuded area. The new Annapolis Rocks campsite in Maryland and Slaughter Gap campsite in Georgia are examples of what I'm calling "sustainable campsites." The tentsite construction method used most often in these efforts is sometimes referred to as "cut-and-fill" or "sidehill." When level campsites are created in a slightly sloping area, hikers naturally want to use them, and impacts are concentrated into a small amount of area. It's a win-win design (as long as the campsites aren't too muddy). Campsites can also be located an appropriate distance from water sources, privies, rare plants, and food storage cables, if they are present.
Thanks for asking.
Laurie
All I can say is thanks to the all the trail clubs,orgs and groups!
Be it paid personnel or volunteers, I am thankful to anyone who dedicates so much time and effort to the places we all love.
Hey Weary, I was basically agreeing with you. In the unlikely event I was absolutely certain you were wrong on something important, I would say so, of course as tactfully as possible :). But for the most part on WhiteBlaze I try to respond to ideas and content, rather than individuals. By the way, I have a great amount of respect for the work you have done for the A.T. in Maine and appreciate the perspective you bring to WhiteBlaze.
Laurie
Hey Weary, I was basically agreeing with you. In the unlikely event I was absolutely certain you were wrong on something important, I would say so, of course as tactfully as possible :). But for the most part on WhiteBlaze I try to respond to ideas and content, rather than individuals. By the way, I have a great amount of respect for the work you have done for the A.T. in Maine and appreciate the perspective you bring to WhiteBlaze. Laurie
Yes. I recognized what you were doing. I even agree that you were right for agreeing with me.:)
I was just saying, important as agreeing is, it's not more important than truth. So I'm glad that all you have said in reference to me, is truth. You hear that, guys? Laurie thinks I'm right. And even if you don't. Me and Laurie are (mostly) in agreement., even if you don't think so.
Weary
I'd love to!
When a "cultural assessment" is conducted it means an archeologist studies a site to make sure there was no sign of significant human activities of historic interest, such as artifacts from native Americans, the Civil War, etc.
The term "primitive structure" is the umbrella we use to describe shelters and privies. You can read more about what "primitive" means in relation to them in our "Locating and Designing A.T. Shelters and Formal Campsites" policy at appalachiantrail.org/policies (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/policies.).
By "sustainable campsite" I mean one that's built to minimize impacts over the long term and won't expand into one giant denuded area. The new Annapolis Rocks campsite in Maryland and Slaughter Gap campsite in Georgia are examples of what I'm calling "sustainable campsites." The tentsite construction method used most often in these efforts is sometimes referred to as "cut-and-fill" or "sidehill." When level campsites are created in a slightly sloping area, hikers naturally want to use them, and impacts are concentrated into a small amount of area. It's a win-win design (as long as the campsites aren't too muddy). Campsites can also be located an appropriate distance from water sources, privies, rare plants, and food storage cables, if they are present.
Thanks for asking.
Laurie
Thanks again for sharing. Having passed through the Whites this year, I was amazed at how the re-vegetation areas have recovered from prior abuse. The layout and management of many of these large sites makes you hardly notice that there is a shelter there and wonder whether they are even needed at all. The point I was trying to make earlier is that primitive camping does not require a three sided structure and perhaps the monies spent on building them could be put to better use building primitive, sustainable, re-vegetated "campsites" rather than "structures" that are simply abused and quickly become an eyesore in the wilderness. The AT shelter predates the modern light-weight tents, tarps, bivies and hammocks and if people could get past the nostalgia, perhaps the AT would be better off without them.