View Full Version : Sweat management
hootyhoo
12-20-2008, 17:36
I felt like I was putting on and taking off clothes too many times last weekend. It was cold, sunny at times, and windy at times, I was in an out of forest cover and gaining elevation. One minute I would be hot and the next I would have to put on gloves. My pack was on and off a lot. I was trying to avoid any moisture from sweat on my trail clothes because I was relying on trails clothes as part of camp clothing/sleep system. It all worked out comfortably, but that might be pushing my luck too much. I wore the same clothes for three days - luckily it only rained a wee bit, but it sure did get cold.
One item that I left at home for the last time is my windshirt - it is such a versatile peice and I think it makes temperature changes more tolerable since wind is less of and issue.
Do any of you add and subtract clothes a lot?
Do you allow yourself to be too cool or too clammy?
What do you find works best for sweat management?
NICKTHEGREEK
12-20-2008, 17:59
I felt like I was putting on and taking off clothes too many times last weekend. It was cold, sunny at times, and windy at times, I was in an out of forest cover and gaining elevation. One minute I would be hot and the next I would have to put on gloves. My pack was on and off a lot. I was trying to avoid any moisture from sweat on my trail clothes because I was relying on trails clothes as part of camp clothing/sleep system. It all worked out comfortably, but that might be pushing my luck too much. I wore the same clothes for three days - luckily it only rained a wee bit, but it sure did get cold.
One item that I left at home for the last time is my windshirt - it is such a versatile peice and I think it makes temperature changes more tolerable since wind is less of and issue.
Do any of you add and subtract clothes a lot?
Do you allow yourself to be too cool or too clammy?
What do you find works best for sweat management?
I think you had the right idea but maybe for the wrong reason. A dry set of clothes is pretty essential when the temps drop and the precip threatens. This is even more important if you are hiking solo and shelters and fire aren't close by.
Pit zips on my fleece and deep neck zips on my base and intermediate layers help ventilate. A light fleece watchcap is the best warm up/cool down I have. It's first to go on when I'm cold, first off when I get warm. Stay hydrated too!
Nick has it right. Zips (full zips are best) are essential for quick venting, minimizing overheating. Having to take your pack off to vent a half zip layer isn't my idea of a good time. That's why I almost never wear anything but the lightest inner garment. I don't want to have to remove that to get the comfort zone just right. Take a wind shell and something dry (at least for the torso) for camp use only. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. :)
If it's cold outside (below 40 or below 55 and rainy ect) and I go hiking, I expect to be cold (but not uncomfortably so). If I layer up to the point that I don't feel cold I just end up getting sweaty and ending up even colder in the long run.
Zipping and unzipping a jacket and adding/removing a hat are quick and easy changes you can make as you walk to stay at a reasonable temperature
shelterbuilder
12-20-2008, 22:10
I try to dress so that I'm comfortably COOL. Now, I usually wear lightweight poly-pro as a base layer, with wool over that. I'll have gloves and a watch cap handy (stuffed in a pocket), and between zips/buttons and the gloves and cap, I can usually regulate my temperature pretty well. Don't be afraid to roll your sleeves up or down, too. One other thing that I always tell people is that, if their clothing is right but they're STILL too warm, then they're hiking too fast. (Slow down and enjoy the trip - you only get to go this way once, so try not to miss any of the sights!)
Modified from: http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php/Outdoor-Writings/intro-to-snowshoeing.html
A quick and dirty rule of thumb is to use the 20 Degree Rule. Borrowed from running, it simply means to dress like it is twenty degrees warmer than the actual temperature.
The 20 Degree Rule is just a rule of thumb that can differ from person to person, but overall the logic is the same regardless:
Many outdoor activities are aerobic ones.You will be generating body heat and will soon warm up. If you start off the trip and you are slightly cool, you are probably dressed correctly. When you stop, you can always throw on an extra layer. If you overdressed, you will be soaked in sweat and will be cold quite quickly when you stop.
I find a light hat (fleece or wool) is an excellent way to regulate the body temps in cold weather. Take off if hot; put on if cold.
FWIW, I was hiking the other day in town in very low temps (less than 5? 0?) and slightly windy conditions. I had on a polypro top and bottom. Montbell rain pants, a lt fleece hat, gloves and shell mittens. My lined windshirt was stowed in a fanny pack.
On the up hills, I was very warm to the point I had to take off my hat. On the downhills, I had to throw on my hat again along with a windshirt. On the flats, I took off the jacket again. I tend to hike consistently. Alas, I am very thin on my head, too. :o (Hence the almost constant need for head covering...)
Overall, I get my bottom half just about right for the general conditions, and layer on my torso, head and hands as appropriate
This holds true (along with the 20F rule of thumb) for my outdoor activities whether hiking or skiing/snowshoeing in all four seasons (well, I don't ski in the summer. :) )
As a side note, for winter use, when I am more concerned about warmth than weight (and I am wearing most of my layers), I tend to favor wool base layers (except for the liner socks) as it is more forgiving of sweating I find. A wool hat tends to be warmer if it gets damp in snow vs a fleece hat as well. A surplus wool sweater is now my warm layer of choice, too. In the cold, dry conditions of Colorado, I find wool works very well overall.
In three season backpacking, when weight and bulk is a chief a concern (and most of my layers are stowed), I tend to wear synthetics. Any moisture in spring through fall tends to be rain (or very wet snow), so the quick drying properties of synthetics comes in handy.
Overall, you may find one combo works better than another based on your budget, availability of what you may already have or just personal preference.
gollwoods
12-20-2008, 22:28
I agree with the wind shirt it is too light to notice but makes light insulation base layers alot more effective as long as you don't over work and get sweaty.
fiddlehead
12-20-2008, 23:55
IN the winter, i use full zip pants that unzip from both ends.
That's my regulator (and a hat, on or off)
Of course when i stop, i put on a jacket.
Blissful
12-20-2008, 23:59
Yeah, it's something you do on the trail, esp if the weather is changing. I usually start fairly bundled then begin to shed when I start to feel my back heating up, before I sweat too much. I like to hike in my smartwool long sleeve top in cold weather and sometimes my wind shirt if the wind is bad. I keep a zippered pouch on my waist belt to slip my gloves and hat into (your hat should be the first item to come off if you are starting to feel warm and the first thing you put on when you stop for a break).
Wow, a lot of good insightful sweat mangement practices already discussed!. I practice almost all of the previous posters recommendations with much success. First, I think U R ahead of the hiker curve because U realize U need to regulate your sweat and it's up to U to manage your body temp. Still surprises me how many hikers I meet who aren't fully aware that they ultimately have to manage their sweat/body temp, don't really have a solid grasp on how to do it, or just don't take the time to do it! As others have already stated those pit and deep chest zips and changing pace helps. There R many gear choices that incorporate mechanical venting options or different fabric panels. They R there to better help U manage your temp/sweat. Whenever I choose gear I'm thinking of venting/ventilation/breathabilty. I find acessories help alot too. I usually keep a pair of light wt. Windstopper gloves, wool beanie, bandana, rain hat, and/ or light vest, wind shirt, shell within arm's reach while hiking. I take the approach that if I can keep my extremities and core warm I can wear less on my forearms and legs. And, even though its been said many times before, U must keep aware of your food and, especially, water intake. Water intake is one of those things that's easy to forget about, particularly when it gets colder outside, but it's still important in regulating your core temp. I also follow the 20 deg Rule(for me it's more like the 10 deg Rule though). After finding myself constantly stopping after only 20 minutes of hiking when I started the day and having to take off layers I've learned to start off on the cool side because after I start hammering awhile I now know I'm going to get hotter. We could also talk about fabrics. Even though I sometimes incorporate synthetic layers into my clothing system I find myself increasingly turning to different wts. of merino wool garments instead. IMO, nothing beats the versatility, wickabilty, and temp management of merino wool. Recently, crossed the Mojave Desert in a micro wt. Smartwool T shirt in 110 deg temps and was still incorporating it into a layering system in sub 30 deg temps in Washington state in a snow fall.
Almost forgot, yeah I keep adding and subtracting clothing until I get the comfortable factor dialed in, but I find I've had to do it less and less as I have learned better what to expect in terms of changing weather and my hiking style.
Feral Bill
12-21-2008, 02:23
Consider a nice wool or fleece scarf. Easy on and off, and very effective thermoregulation for it's weight. Costs maybe $15 and a couple of ounces.
Headbands(fleece are good) work better than hats while hiking down to about 15-20 degrees if not too windy or snowing heavy, keep ears warm, let heat and perspiration out. Put hat on when not hiking.
I felt like I was putting on and taking off clothes too many times last weekend. It was cold, sunny at times, and windy at times, I was in an out of forest cover and gaining elevation. One minute I would be hot and the next I would have to put on gloves. My pack was on and off a lot. I was trying to avoid any moisture from sweat on my trail clothes because I was relying on trails clothes as part of camp clothing/sleep system. It all worked out comfortably, but that might be pushing my luck too much. I wore the same clothes for three days - luckily it only rained a wee bit, but it sure did get cold. One item that I left at home for the last time is my windshirt - it is such a versatile peice and I think it makes temperature changes more tolerable since wind is less of and issue.
Do any of you add and subtract clothes a lot?
Do you allow yourself to be too cool or too clammy?
What do you find works best for sweat management?
Same clothes for 3 days, even 3 weeks, is the right approach. You want extra layers, and interchangeable layers, but no change of clothes. It sounds like you are saying you wish you brought thicker layers, but you are also curious what is the best way to layer and delayer. A good 16oz insurance policy is long wool underwear that are loose enough to fit over your skin layer and under your middle layer, and compact enough to leave in your sleeping bag. I like a light windshell also, but it is normally stays off except when I stop, and comes back off before the pack goes back on. Just wear a thicker middle layer and let the wind blow through it when your moving to keep them dry and dry them out. Another good trick people miss is to leave their skin layers off on warm sunny days, and just let the wind blow right through the middle layer to your bare skin. If this is too cold even when moving then stop and put on one or both skin layers, but try and leave the wind shells for when you stop. Another good trick to delayer is to have a way to blouse up your pants and sleeves. Blouse them up when your warm, but keep them on with the wind blowing through them to dry them out. Basically, use your body like a clothes dryer or clothes line, not a washing machine. If it is really warm and sunny, consider hiking in bare legs or switching main bottom layer to you skin layer, but always try and keep your wool sweater on always.
Good winter clothing system, thickness depending on climate...
bottom skin layer (wool, silk, or poly)
flannel boxers or boxerbriefs - 1 piece of cotton flannel is manageable
200 wt fleece bottoms - loose
brushed nylon hiking shorts
top skin layer (wool, silk, or poly)
medium/heavy knit wool sweater
fleece oversweater with hood and pouch (100wt or 200wt or windstopper)
light nylon wind shell with hood
footwear/sock system (different thread)
wool liner gloves, wool mitts, brushed nylon overmitts
wool neck/face tube, wool hat with flaps
long wool underwear; serves as extra insurance layer and sleep gear
light rain jacket and pants; serves as rain gear and extreme cold wind gear
In an extreme event, you should be able to wear all of the above at once, without any layers being overstretched or compressed. If it all fits comfortably together at once, except for the heat, then you should be able to find many comfortable delayered combinations.
bigcranky
12-21-2008, 16:25
I was trying to avoid any moisture from sweat on my trail clothes because I was relying on trails clothes as part of camp clothing/sleep system.
I have to say that in the winter I think this is a bad idea. It's just too easy to get your hiking layers wet from perspiration or precipitation.
Beyond that, all of the above suggestions are good ones.
Headbands(fleece are good) work better than hats while hiking down to about 15-20 degrees if not too windy, keep ears warm, let heat and perspiration out. Put hat on when not hiking.
(copying and pasting from the doc I referenced earlier. I'm lazy... :D)
I like a light balaclava for that reason. It is my hat of choice in 3 season backpacking, and I always pack it in winter. Works well as a scarf, too:
Balaclava (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaclava_(clothing)) : AKA the Ninja Ski Mask. Not to be confused with a delicious pastry... A very versatile piece of clothing. I find a lightweight one to be the most useful. Roll it up for a light hat, roll it down for a neck warmer, roll it over your ears to be worn with a ball cap, wear it normally for more warmth and protection in the high winds and cold.
Hydation, good point.
In winter, it is very easy to not drink. Psychologically, because it is cold, you don't feel the need to drink as often as during summer. But, it is essential to keep hydrated. Otherwise, you will feel sluggish, not process food as well and ultimately get colder. Not fun!
I do not suggest using a CamelBak. The tube tends to freeze making it so you can't get water. Even the insulated CamelBaks have had mixed results at best.
I am a big fan of a Gatorade bottle or two stowed in my pack. Wrapped in my clothing (or even an wool sock), the bottles rarely freeze. Another trick that works well is to heat some hot water at home and pour it into a Nalgene and then stowe it in your pack. You can buy an insulated bottle holder if you feel the need (or simply use the old sock trick, with the sock placed in plastic shopping bag for waterproofing)
An optional item, but one enjoyed by everyone, is a thermos of your favorite hot beverage. Some hot tea is always welcome! I also enjoy Lipton's soup or similar: A hot drink, much craved salt and some carbs/protein in one lovely package. Mmmm...
StubbleJumper
12-21-2008, 18:18
IMO, it's nearly impossible to perfectly manage moisture when hiking...you are better to take a set of dry clothes for camp.
I went out for a 9 mile snowshoe trip yesterday and it was 5 degrees. I wore a base layer of capilene long underwear, with cheapo Walmart sports pants, a Costco merino wool sweater and a very worn fleece (probably worn out to 100 weight). In my pack, I carried a goretex shell just in case. Within one mile I took off my mittens. Within 2 miles I took off the fleece. By the third mile, I was sweating and that was with long underwear and a wool sweater.
If it were not simply a day showshoeing trip, I would have needed dry clothes for the night. The Costco merino wool sweater is great in that it retains its insulating capacity when its wet, but it takes forever to dry out....and frost forms on the outside.
Another good trick people miss is to leave their skin layers off on warm sunny days, and just let the wind blow right through the middle layer to your bare skin.
Another good one. But, JAK what is to blouse up? Do U mean roll up pants legs and sleeves? Is that a local technical New Bruswick term? And, can I get some whipped cream with that balaclava? U know U opened the door to that one.
Downhill Trucker
12-22-2008, 05:23
I personally don't believe in "camp clothes" because I like to go light and if it's nasty out I'm running around camp pretty good just to cuddle up in my bag or around a fire and letting my clothes dry as much as possible for the next day. I am reevaluating my system a bit because my backpacking clothes are about 10 years old.
Current 3 season system:
Patagonia Capilene silkweight short sleeve shirt
Patagonia Capilene silkweight boxers
Nylon Convertible pants (usually used as shorts)
If chilled:
Add my LLBean Power dry zip tneck
Turn pants to shorts
At camp:
Switch into LLbean Power Dry zip tneck
Terramar Bodysensors midweight long underwear
If weather is dry I might wash some of my clothes and myself and let them dry overnight. I also use a North Face Vaporwick fleece for additional warmth.
This has worked well for me for many years. I think a hat is crucial and I have many depending on the trip. You're on the right path with carefully regulating temperature throughout the day. I am constantly taking off my windbreaker or longsleeve and tucking it somewhere and then putting it back on again.
Regardless, I'm going after some new backpacking clothes and am thinking about switching to wool layers and a powerstretch top with my nylon outers.
I hear the wool helps with that uncomfortable chill at rest stops. Just not sure if I want all wool underlayers or a polypro or polyester baselayer with wool over it.
I know for a fact my feet LOVE my Xstatic liners with merino socks. They stay dry. And as cool or warm as I think anything can.
zdank, ditch the Patagonia Capilene silkweight boxers. Not necesssary. Go commando. Let the boys roam free. Start taking UL to the next level. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
shelterbuilder
12-22-2008, 16:50
...But, JAK what is to blouse up? Do U mean roll up pants legs and sleeves?....
I believe that is what JAK means. I usually don't roll up my pants legs, but my shirt sleeves are always getting rolled up and down - it's a quick, easy way to regulate, along with those zippers and/or buttons.
I've known some people who would hike with their trousers unzipped, but we won't get into THAT one here!:eek::D