View Full Version : Appalachian pronunciation
So... Is it Appala-(short A as in apple)-chian or
is it Appala-(long A as in rain)-chian ?
Short A down south.
Long A up north.
We both understand. :)
Growing up in Ohio, I learned apple-ay-shun
Here in atlanta I usually hear apple-latch-un
apple-ay-chee-en is how dictionary.com pronounces it.
Tinker got it right. I always used to say Appallaychian... but when hiking in NC I was corrected by a local. He said "if you're gonna hike a trail, you oughta know how to say its name, it's appalatchin". Now I know to use one south of VA and one North.
Jack Tarlin
12-22-2008, 15:45
Whatever. What's important is that the REALLY important pronounciation rule to remember is that it it's "Neel" Gap, Georgia, not "Neel's".
Just so you all know. :D
Merry Christmas.
Yes ma'am. And with a Texas accent it might sound right. LOL. When I say it southern-style you can tell I'm kissing up. :D
Lone Wolf
12-22-2008, 15:55
apple-ay-chee-en is how dictionary.com pronounces it.
that is the correct pronunciation
garlic08
12-22-2008, 16:03
Down South, they say, "If y'all don't say it right, I'll throw an apple at cha.":D
TrippinBTM
12-22-2008, 16:04
A friend of mine who lives in TN always "yells" at me that it's said app-uh-latch-in, she should know, she lives in them. I always counter that so do people in new England, and they say it my way (app-uh-lay-shin)
And, Lone Wolf, are you serious? I've NEVER heard anyone say that, north or south.
Whatever. What's important is that the REALLY important pronounciation rule to remember is that it it's "Neel" Gap, Georgia, not "Neel's".
Just so you all know. :D
Merry Christmas.
we already knew. thank you though.
AUDIO LINK:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/appalachian
There's room for interpretation.
And, Lone Wolf, are you serious? I've NEVER heard anyone say that, north or south.
I recently heard it for the first time, I thought they were mispronouncing it until I looked it up.
I argued at college with my best friend over this word. He, being from New Hampshire, said it with a long "A" and I, having lived in East Tennessee, pronounced it with a short "A".
Jack Tarlin
12-22-2008, 16:15
Uh-huh. Meaning he was right, and you were wrong. :D
J.T.
Hanover, New Hampshire
Lone Wolf
12-22-2008, 16:15
southerners pronounce it wrong
nuh-uh! it's you damn yankees that pronounce it wrong!
sweet, we are fighting the war of northern aggression again.:banana
ChinMusic
12-22-2008, 16:48
Short A down south.
Long A up north.
We both understand. :)
So does the boundary appoximate sweet/unsweetened tea?
bigmac_in
12-22-2008, 16:50
Long A is correct , which is how it was taught in school. But I would of voted for a third option -
I don't give a (darn).
So does the boundary appoximate sweet/unsweetened tea?
yes, it most certainly does. also, grits also seems to stop at the line. cain't for the life of me figger why.
yes, it most certainly does. also, grits also seems to stop at the line. cain't for the life of me figger why.
Grits ? ain't that a two or three syllable word ? :D
Long A is correct , which is how it was taught in school. But I would of voted for a third option -
I don't give a (darn).
It wasn't taught that way in my school!
Grits ? ain't that a two or three syllable word ? :D
two, but you gotta say 'em r-e-a-l s-l-o-w like and draw 'em out. gri-yuhts.
yes, it most certainly does. also, grits also seems to stop at the line. cain't for the life of me figger why.
two, but you gotta say 'em r-e-a-l s-l-o-w like and draw 'em out. gri-yuhts.
whaaat she said.
and AppalAchian is pronounced with a short A
troglobil
12-22-2008, 19:03
Whatever. What's important is that the REALLY important pronounciation rule to remember is that it it's "Neel" Gap, Georgia, not "Neel's".
Just so you all know. :D
Merry Christmas.
Where do you get this? My USGS topos have it as "Neels".
bigmac_in
12-22-2008, 19:12
Where do you get this? My USGS topos have it as "Neels".
Oh CRAP - here we go. :rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
12-22-2008, 19:12
Where do you get this? My USGS topos have it as "Neels".
the topos are wrong
troglobil
12-22-2008, 19:13
Has this one been beaten down before?
Pedaling Fool
12-22-2008, 19:16
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44253
ChinMusic
12-22-2008, 19:31
Re Neels/Neel
When enough people get it "wrong" it becomes right.
troglobil
12-22-2008, 19:32
Thanks John, Wolf you were your usual helpful self.
troglobil
12-22-2008, 19:40
There is a creek down the road from me that the DOT decided to change the name of by way of a typo on their sign when they put up a new one after replacing the bridge.
I found this "Appalachian" pronunciation sign posted in the ATC office this past September.
The Neel Gap sign is posted beside the Mountain Crossings store
From: http://www.bigorrin.org/apalachee_kids.htm
How do you pronounce the word "Apalachee"? What does it mean?
It's pronounced "APP-uh-LATCH-ee." It means "people on the other side" in Hitchiti, the language of a neighboring tribe.
Tisn't Neel, tis Noel--well almost!:D
TrippinBTM
12-22-2008, 20:43
JERMM, just gotta say, I love you're avatar. :D
Blissful
12-22-2008, 21:32
Whatever. What's important is that the REALLY important pronounciation rule to remember is that it it's "Neel" Gap, Georgia, not "Neel's".
Just so you all know. :D
Merry Christmas.
lol
:D
Feral Bill
12-22-2008, 22:14
Has this one been beaten down before?
To a bloody lifeless pulp.
A friend of mine, born and raised in middle tennessee, who is very southern, informed me I was pronouncing it wrong when I used the short A. He said it was the long A, which surprised me to no end, and his family dates back to the settling of Nashville.
Jim Adams
12-23-2008, 01:54
A friend of mine, born and raised in middle tennessee, who is very southern, informed me I was pronouncing it wrong when I used the short A. He said it was the long A, which surprised me to no end, and his family dates back to the settling of Nashville.
Huh! Clear back to the settling of Nashville?....You would have thought that one of them would have gotten it right!:D
geek
RedneckRye
12-23-2008, 02:08
As long as I've known of it, it has been pronounced A T.
Capital A
Capital T.
If the AT comes up in conversation and the other person does not know what it is, that is a very good clue that the topic ought to change.
But when it really comes down to it, what do I know? I'm a flat lander from o-HI-o.
ChinMusic
12-23-2008, 02:11
So... Is it Appala-(short A as in apple)-chian or
is it Appala-(long A as in rain)-chian ?
I believe this argument ended at Appomattox Court House.....
camojack
12-23-2008, 05:22
AUDIO LINK:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/appalachian
There's room for interpretation.
There are two icons to choose from at that link; they give both of 'em. ;)
TrippinBTM
12-23-2008, 07:39
I believe this argument ended at Appomattox Court House.....
Ouch! nice one:sun
oh, and that dictionary definition link is pretty bad. It uses the word in the definition! And I've never heard anyone called an Appalachian for living in those mountains. I'm pretty sure they're properly called hillbillies.
buckwheat
12-23-2008, 09:41
Grits ? ain't that a two or three syllable word ? :D
Two.
Pronounced:
Gree-its
Used in a sentence: "Ya'll wanchall some gree-its, ya'll better getcher butt outta that damn bed!"
sheepdog
12-23-2008, 10:06
I know? I'm a flat lander from o-HI-o.
I thought it was Oh-hi-ya.
Two.
Pronounced:
Gree-its
Used in a sentence: "Ya'll wanchall some gree-its, ya'll better getcher butt outta that damn bed!"
where in the hay-ell are you from? that sounds like an okie accent to me.
I thought it was Oh-hi-ya.
it is...
Chenango
12-23-2008, 13:15
AUDIO LINK:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/appalachian
There's room for interpretation.
Both of these recordings sound so antiseptic. Where is the beauty of the word? :)
We're split almost 50/50. That surprises me. I'd have thought that more of you knew how to pronounce it the right way. :)
Lone Wolf
12-23-2008, 14:06
layshun not latchin
layshun not latchin
where's my apple? keep it up yankee.
Chenango
12-23-2008, 15:27
The poll is dead even: 40:40
i bet ifn you looked at the demo's, the short a's are below the mdl and the longs are up top.
It's the APPLE-ATCHUN Trail, which runs east of the SHI'-NEN-DOWER Valley, where the town of LOO'-RAY is located.
Tomay-to
Toe-mah-to
Kilo-mee-ter
Kil-ahm-eter
Still the same mountain range? People still know what you are talking about?
So, in my not-so-professional and ignorant opinion, I am going to say both pronunciations works just fine. ;)
/born in RhoDyeluhn
//living in Col-ah-rahdo
///Pronounce almost everything with a trace of my native accent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eOL62wgXY8). ;)
BlackCloud
12-24-2008, 02:06
As a Northerner, you know how I pronounce it; which is to say, correctly.
But I would hold that the truly right answer would be however the person who actually invented the word pronounced it. Undoubtedly there exists an 18th (17th?) century dictionary with a phoenetic [sic] pronunciation.
But alas, most people in Stanton, VA can't even pronounce their own town's name....
Neither can those in Pierre, SD for that matter......
Ramble~On
12-24-2008, 03:52
Po' Tate toe ! Poh tot toe
W.T.F.C. ? Hike it!
Freedom of Speech.
But alas, most people in Stanton, VA can't even pronounce their own town's name....
Neither can those in Pierre, SD for that matter......
My favorite is Saucier, MS. Looks like a nice french name for a town, but the locals hillbillyed it up by pronouncing it so-sure.
Ramble~On
12-24-2008, 05:35
My favorite is Saucier, MS. Looks like a nice french name for a town, but the locals hillbillyed it up by pronouncing it so-sure.
There's Leicester, England and there's Leicester, MA and then there's Leicester, NC. I'm sure that there are other towns out there named Leicester. In North Carolina there are people who swear up and down that the town is pronounced " Lee Sess Ter ".
http://inogolo.com/audio/Leicester_3991.mp3
It isn't uncommon around here to hear a conversation like this :
"Hey! have yinz seen my cigarettes, this here trailer is'a all tored up and I can't find um no where"
"My NASCAR race if fix'n to start after this here wrestlin and I needs my smokes...tar nation Bubba turn down that John Boy n Billy and hear me out"
Appalaychian or Appalatchian - I reckin it done don't matter none. Ain't hardly nobody speaks right no more no how
I have hacked on enough place name pronunciations, especially in the far NW, that I can, with a smile, handle any verbal butchering.
My favorite of all time: Puyallup, WA. 2nd: The surname Padilla.
sheepdog
12-24-2008, 09:50
Call a tele-marketer. They are real good at pronouncing names. I sure they would know. ;)
I'm sorry, but here in Greene County, Virginia, we pronounce it Apple-a-che-an.:)
I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't be so bold as to disagree with anyone named Paul Bunyan.
I thought it was Oh-hi-ya.
Nope. Uh-hi-uh (or Ah-hi-ah). :D
bigboots
12-25-2008, 23:43
I'm amazed at how close this poll is, either I am too sheltered or to ignorant to accept another pronunciation. Either way "I" am hiking the AppalAchian Trail next year. (soon to be this year!)
I'd rather hike the Appalachin..trail then hike the Appalayshun. I spect we ought build a fence right over the Mason-dixon while we're at it.
Someone here once claimed the dividing line should be redrawn where McDonald's sells sweet tea. I see it's now being sold in The Green Diamond! Not sure how I feel about that yet although I expect I'll decide I don't care.:-?
One way or the other, I'll remain a Yankee educated south of the Mason-Dixon line who knows the proper pronunciation is Apple-ATchin. I prefer my tea green, strong and straight-up.:p:D
apple-ay-chee-en is how dictionary.com pronounces it.
Dictionary knows best.
Lone Wolf
12-26-2008, 03:52
I see it's now being sold in [COLOR=black]The Green Diamond
what's the green diamond, a restaurant or something?
what's the green diamond, a restaurant or something?
Berks County, Pennsylvania
One way or the other, I'll remain a Yankee educated south of the Mason-Dixon line who knows the proper pronunciation is Apple-atchin. I
Show me the "t" in Appalachian and I may start saying that way too.
Now after me...
appa-lay*-chee-un
tch is pronounced the same as ch... the question is long or short a, and we're still 50/50 on it. By the way, get a better dictionary Sly, a good one shows both pronunciations.
Show me the "t" in Appalachian and I may start saying [it] that way too.
Now after me...
appa-lay*-chee-un
You've heard of silent letters. The t is an unwritten letter which is understood to be there.
Years ago, before the advent of written language, everyone knew there was a t-sound there. When Gutenberg printed the first Guide to the A.T., it wasn't long before the English heard about it.
They were above learning German, but wanted to read about the A.T. even though they didn't hike much. This all started because an Englishman mispelled the word when he transcribed Gutenberg's work.
So, you see, it's just a big misunderstanding.;)
the question is long or short a, and we're still 50/50 on it.
Our time really would be better spent convincing those who haven't yet learned the word is only properly completed when the sound in is spoken.
sherrill
12-26-2008, 14:10
This conversation reminds me when we rented a cabin near Acadia. When I asked the owner "Is it Mt. Desert (de-ZERT), or (DEH-zert) Island?" she just stared at me and said "Yes".
Gotta love you Mainers. :D
Rockhound
12-26-2008, 17:40
according to Robert L. Ripley of "Believe It or Not" fame only 1 in 100,000 people can pronounce all 10 of the following words correctly. data, gratis, culinary, cocaine, gondola, version, impious, chic, caribbean and viking. source: The Book Of Lists.
Rockhound
12-26-2008, 17:42
As far as Appalachian goes, I'd rather be able to hike it than pronounce it.
Mickey D's is selling sweet tea right here in Providence, RI. The "Apple-ay-shun" folks go a lot farther south than my neck of the woods (and all the way to Maine).
Show me the "t" in Appalachian and I may start saying that way too.
Now after me...
appa-lay*-chee-un
Phonetic spelling of latch= \’lach\ - Merriam-Webster online dictionary.
I’m not a strong advocate of any of the pronunciations. I easily know what you are saying.
There is some precedence for any of them. Appalachian as the name of the whole range, the long a version probably, was first popularized in the North, and the short a version was taken from the name of a tribe in FL. As I’ve posted, this has the short sound. Some early references have the ‘t’ and most of the rest could be either. http://www.sonoma.edu/users/w/wallsd/on-the-naming-of-appalachia.shtml is an interesting read, and http://www.experiencefestival.com/appalachian_mountains_-_name_pronunciation_and_origin might also be of interest.
Any of the following are acceptable according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
\,a-pə-‘lā-ch(ē-)ən, -‘la-, -sh(ē-)ən\, and it doesn’t bother me to hear any of these, although there is one that I don’t think I’ve ever heard.
I noticed a long ago that one of these possible pronunciations equals the accepted pronunciation for: appellation--\,a-pə-‘lā-shən\, as in the Appellation Trail. Oddly, some references say that the –chian should be pronounced as one syllable.
I asked on this site what the pronunciation of Schaghticoke was. The reply was: scat-uh-coke; now, that was a disappointment.
Pronunciation of an English word from merely seeing it as it is spelled is many times difficult; thus the need for phonetics, something a very few languages seem not to need. This is frustrating for people trying to learn the language as well as for those who speak it.
For instance. One and two-pronounce these imagining seeing them for the first time. As Gallagher said, two has one’s w. How about the pronunciations of –ough? There are nine of them. Which and witch can be homophones.
I talked to a Scot on the AT in the Smokies N of Tricorner long ago. I could hardly understand his deep brogue, the occasional word led me to believe that he really liked the area and it reminded him a lot of Maine. I really enjoyed listening.
Ah, well! Many will be thankful that I’m tiring of this subject- for now anyway. If anyone has any history to add, post.
Well, having grown up in the Baltimore area with relatives living just north & south of the Mason-Dixon line, I heard variations on both pronunciations. Personally I say APP - uh - LAY - tchin ! :sun :-?
Up here most say a'-pple-ay'-shen, with the accent on the 1st and 3rd,
but if we were to slow it down it would be more like 5 syllables...
a'-pple-ay'-shee-en
However, if there was such a thing as a more correct or most correct pronounciation, I would defer to the Southern pronounciation as it is closer to the origin of the word, both in pronounciation and location.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_Mountains
While exploring the northern coast of Florida in 1528, the members of the Narváez expedition, including Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca, found a Native American town whose name they transcribed as Apalachen [a.paˈla.tʃɛn]. This name and its pronunciation were applied to the Apalachee Native Americans, as well as a nearby body of water, now spelled Apalachee Bay, to the Apalachicola River, Apalachicola Bay, and the Apalachicola Native Americans, and to the city known as Apalachicola, Florida.
The word Apalachen was also applied to an inland mountain range, and through the course of time it became applied to the entire range and its spelling was changed.
In southern U.S. dialects, the mountains are pronounced as the [æ.pəˈlæ.tʃənz], with the third and fourth syllables sounding like "latch". In northern U.S. dialects, the mountains are pronounced as the [æ.pəˈleɪ.tʃənz] or [æ.pəˈleɪ.ʃənz]; the third syllable is like "lay", and the fourth is either "chins", "shins", or "shuns".
d'shadow
12-27-2008, 16:28
I often here the referral of appalachian mountains to appalachie, this may be unique to the western mountains of North Carolina. A local might express it this way: appalachian, or appalachie, don't make no never mind to me, them mountains is still over younder.:rolleyes:
The pronunciation of "Appalachian" in Colorado is "Foothills". :D
(Just being a smart-ass folks. I cut my teeth in the Whites. I know that those "hills" can have some brutal climbs...and much beauty. But, because I am from the northeast, gotta be sarcastic. ;) )
Show me the "t" in Appalachian and I may start saying that way too.
Now after me...
appa-lay*-chee-unClemson does not have a P in it yet it is still pronounced with it.
I grew up in the south, surrounded by sweet tea and biscuits, and still learned it as Appa-Lay-Shun.
As for sweet tea and biscuits, it's a damned shame you have to go to McD's to get them up north. :mad: BUT that's a serious improvement over a decade ago when I couldn't get them at all once I hit Maryland.
Nearly Normal
12-28-2008, 08:09
I wonder how people who studder, er stutter pronounce it?
Worldwide
12-28-2008, 13:25
Whatever. What's important is that the REALLY important pronounciation rule to remember is that it it's "Neel" Gap, Georgia, not "Neel's".
Just so you all know. :D
Merry Christmas.
The USGS website and maps refer to it as "Neels Gap"
http://csat.er.usgs.gov/drg/24k/index.html
click on Union county from that page then look for map grid F 7 & F 8
Peace out
Worldwide
I grew up in the south, surrounded by sweet tea and biscuits, and still learned it as Appa-Lay-Shun.
You can't fool me, you're just a moderator trying to be diplomatic. Neither fish nor fowl, your post is like some sort of waterbird resembling a diving duck. Where were your parents raised?
As for sweet tea and biscuits, it's a damned shame you have to go to McD's to get them up north. :mad:
Come on, give credit where it's due. We're more accomodating than we were in the 1860s.:)
Times are changing. If you ask around and are willing to DIY, you can get everything you need to make your own, even if you can't find people who know how to prepare proper Southern fare.
I wonder how people who studder, er stutter pronounce it?
Probably more struggle with it now as result of this thread which may be enough to render some stutterers speechless!;)
Maybe we need a clear rule which everyone can agree upon?:D I suggest when in the South, pronounce Appalachian as Southerners can agree to pronounce it. When in the North, pronounce it as AMCers pronounce it unless you want to call attention to yourself.
When in West Virginia or straddling it's boarder with Virginia, pronounce it as Paul Bunyan suggests (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=745001&postcount=62) because he is a man with whom few would disagree at least to his face and is equally at home and respected in both South and North.
Now that the issue is once and for all times settled, anyone know how to pronounce trail?
River Runner
12-28-2008, 17:14
Maybe we need a clear rule which everyone can agree upon?:D I suggest when in the South, pronounce Appalachian as Southerners can agree to pronounce it. When in the North, pronounce it as AMCers pronounce it unless you want to call attention to yourself.
When in West Virginia or straddling it's boarder with Virginia, pronounce it as Paul Bunyan suggests (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=745001&postcount=62) because he is a man with whom few would disagree at least to his face and is equally at home and respected in both South and North.
Don't lump WV and VA together. I'm from West Virginia, and around here its 'Appa-latch-in'.
:p
Don't tell Paul Bunyan, but I pronounce it as you do. As I recall, that's how non-resident students were taught to pronounce it at WVU by Bill Wylie who taught Forestry 140 a course developed by Dr. Appalachia himself, Maurice Brooks (http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v111n01/p0185-p0187.pdf). Dr. Wylie called to our attention what JAK did earlier in post #80 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=746037&postcount=80) regarding the word's origin.
Now that the issue is once and for all times settled, anyone know how to pronounce trail?
Traaaaaay-----el :D
Traaaaaay-----el :D
Hey, you're not trying to start a new argument -- I mean thread -- are you?
Hey, you're not trying to start a new argument -- I mean thread -- are you?
You should make a new poll for the word "trail".
woodsy already told y'all how to say it. just sayin'.
kolokolo
08-12-2009, 21:26
I'm not partial to either, but the correct way to pronounce the 3rd syllable is 'latch'.
I've taught myself to say "AppalatchianTrail" in the south and Appalaychian Trail in the north. Different strokes for different folks. Doesn't have to be right or wrong. Being polite is usually better than having to be right.
Mr. Clean
08-13-2009, 05:18
Very well said, Tinker.
Whatever. What's important is that the REALLY important pronounciation rule to remember is that it it's "Neel" Gap, Georgia, not "Neel's".
Just so you all know. :D
Merry Christmas. im not disagreeing with jack, but i have a picture of a sign in my gallery from "neels gap", that cleary says "neels gap"! its on the AT behind Mt. Crossings!:confused:
Old Grouse
08-13-2009, 15:19
Yup, and it's Lyme Disease, not Lyme's Disease, Johns Hopkins, not John Hopkins, etc., etc.
apple at cha Is the way I pronounce it and I live next to a town named Appalachia and everybody calls is apple at cha.
Earl used to tell Yogi and me that the mountains are named for the Appalatchi Indian tribe so he pronounced it with the latch sound.