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krazychefkurt
04-13-2004, 02:04
Well I have read a few threads here about cell phones on the trail and really found myself agreeing w/ the fact that they have caused people to use them before they try to fix the situation. I went for a three day hike in ct-ma this past week and found myself in a shelter w/ another hiker who was slowly developing hypothermia. When he finally woke up and relized he was soaked and shaking. We tried to warm him and that wasn't working and he was very sick and we had to call for help. We were very glad to get help and to have the hiker safe. So my take now is still try to fix the problem if that doesn't work then a cell phone call is well worth it..

Blue Jay
04-13-2004, 07:54
Ever hear of the story of the Boy who cried Wolf. There will soon be so many rescues that when one is really needed, even you cell block fanatics know where this is going.

flyfisher
04-13-2004, 08:48
I went for a three day hike in ct-ma this past week and found myself in a shelter w/ another hiker who was slowly developing hypothermia. When he finally woke up and relized he was soaked and shaking. We tried to warm him and that wasn't working and he was very sick and we had to call for help.

In the military, we have training in what we call "self aid - buddy care." I don't doubt that y'all did your best with this fellow (and the post does not paint the full picture, I'm sure). However, your post leads me to think about developing skills that are useful when my fellow hiker is in trouble. Maybe he/she is in enough trouble that they can't work the problem out themselves, but with the added benefit of a buddy, the problem can be fixed without much fuss.

It is easy for me to imagine a situation where a hiker in a shelter gets so cold they can not help themselves. Go to bed cold and wet, and wake shaking and thinking very slowed down. That is a hard situation to help myself out of... Prevention is the main thing most of us do to keep out of the killer situations.

However, it is hard for me to conceive of a situation that involves wet or wind or cold or all three, that a shelter, fellow hiker's clothes/sleeping bags, a fire, and fellow hikers who are not hypothermic could not fix.

I am sure I am not imagining the whole situation. What details are missing in my reconstruction? I assume y'all did get a fire started...

Again, the idea here is that I need to think hard, not only about what I will do if I get into this or that mess, but also what I will do when someone else gets in over their head. How can I best prepare for buddy care?

Youngblood
04-13-2004, 09:47
We all have different abilities. If you find that you are in a situation where you think you need help, then make a call for help. I would think that the folks that handle the '911' calls would be able to determine whether, with their advise, you can handle the situation yourself or they need to send help. Not making a call could have serious consequences.

Blue Jay, it would sure be nice if on occasion you could disagree with someone or just give your opinion without adding insults or name calling. While it is 'colorful', it gets a little old after awhile.

Youngblood

chris
04-13-2004, 10:30
Ever hear of the story of the Boy who cried Wolf. There will soon be so many rescues that when one is really needed, even you cell block fanatics know where this is going.

Charge everyone, for every rescue, no matter what the cost or the situation. No special cases or adjustments for honest accidents, etc. If someone comes to get you, you pay for it. Post signs indicating this at every access point, preferably with a lot of neon and flashing lights. If someone doesn't want to call because they value their money more than their life, then that is their choice and their life and their money. Better yet, get rid of rescues altogether and let people get themselves out of whatever situation they are in. Not being something that most people would go for, perhaps the first idea is better than the second.

Jaybird
04-13-2004, 10:56
Well I have read a few threads here about cell phones on the trail and really found myself agreeing w/ the fact that they have caused people to use them before they try to fix the situation. ....................blah,blah,blah................ ............................... So my take now is still try to fix the problem if that doesn't work then a cell phone call is well worth it..


If ONLY people that took cell phones on the trail would use them this sparingly!

i hate to see hikers with cell phones stuck to their ear while hiking or sitting around the campsite......they're missing the "experience."...but, hey!....it's their loss! ;)

Moose2001
04-13-2004, 12:20
I have to disagree with the premise that everyone should be charged. This is what New Hampshire is doing. Much of this change was caused by reckless hikers with cellphones. I think it should be a more "common" practice.

New Search and Rescue Rules Could Be Costly for Reckless Hikers
December 29, 1999

CONCORD, N.H. -- Hikers who aren't prepared for the extremes of New Hampshire's terrain and weather may want to reevaluate their plans for outdoor adventures.

The New Hampshire Fish and Game Department announced today that hikers who recklessly cause themselves to become lost or injured -- resulting in costly and dangerous rescues -- may be billed for those rescue services. The new protocol has an educational element that includes signs and handouts advising hikers to be prepared when hiking in the backcountry, with the objective of reducing the number of rescues.

"Millions of people come to New Hampshire because it's a fantastic and beautiful place to hike," said Wayne E. Vetter, the Fish and Game Department's executive director. "Unfortunately, a small number of those hikers aren't prepared for the terrain or the weather and lack equipment or experience they need to hike safely. We hope we seldom have to take steps to bill people for search and rescues. But when those rescues are initiated because of someone's careless or reckless behavior, we feel it"s our responsibility to recover some of those costs."

Under the new protocol, which is supported by the Fish and Game Commission, the Department would review each search and rescue mission and determine whether a bill should be sent to those involved. Hikers who may be billed include those who are poorly equipped for terrain or weather and/or lack reasonable skills or stamina to handle the hike without getting lost or injured.

The many dedicated and highly trained volunteers from diverse agencies and organizations are an integral part of New Hampshire's search and rescue missions. As the lead agency in charge of such missions, the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department, handles roughly 150 to 200 search and rescues each year. Of those, only a small number are initiated because of the actions of reckless hikers, according to Col. Ronald Alie, chief of Fish and Game's Law Enforcement Division.

"Those small number of reckless hikers can present some very difficult, dangerous and expensive search and rescue missions," Alie said. "Those are the hikers who'll be billed for rescues. Furthermore, we hope that the prospects of getting a bill will itself act as a deterrent to hikers who may otherwise make incorrect and uneducated decisions."

Searches and rescues in New Hampshire are funded mainly by a $1 fee on off-highway recreational vehicles and boat registrations.

Money collected from reckless hikers will support training and purchases of equipment for volunteers of search and rescue organizations who help with rescue missions. Proper equipment for a winter hike or rescue mission costs as much as $4,000 per person, Alie said.

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papa john
04-13-2004, 15:37
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/8418088.htm

Chappy
04-13-2004, 19:48
Ever hear of the story of the Boy who cried Wolf. There will soon be so many rescues that when one is really needed, even you cell block fanatics know where this is going.

Just read an article in Pacific Stars and Stripes on Yellowstone National Park in which one of the park rangers said she often gets call from tired hikers wanting to know if someone can come get them! She said we just politely tell them "no."