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Ron Haven
12-31-2008, 04:13
Saw on tv this evening that North Carolina had approved the bill to carry concealed weapons on federal lands and even parks with a concealed weapons permit.

Lone Wolf
12-31-2008, 04:18
cool. a packin' we will go, a packin' we will go...:)

Lone Wolf
12-31-2008, 04:26
gun sales have skyrocketed here in virginny lately. i'm fixin' to make me a purchase next week to go along with my ccw permit

jrwiesz
12-31-2008, 04:31
gun sales have skyrocketed here in virginny lately. i'm fixin' to make me a purchase next week to go along with my ccw permit


Sales are reportedly up in Michigan, also. Our houshold alone purchased two new weapons this year.

Don't forget the ammo!!

mtnkngxt
12-31-2008, 08:25
Bought 2 new glocks in .45 and a S&W nightguard in .454 squirrels fear me!

Worldwide
12-31-2008, 09:29
I know we all enjoy our freedoms. However, the people that will be packing heat are the ones who need it least for protection. The usual targets / casualties of the trail are 20 - 30 year old women/girls. I don't see them standing 100 deep at the gun shop buying weapons. It is a long slippery slope in my opinion.

First of all, has anyone considered that all along we didn't need guns to hike until now. Now that it is allowed people are gonna be shooting up the parks like Yosemite Sam while on a moonshine bender. Think of all the gear heads on the trail talking gear, showing gear to each other demonstrating it uses. Now add gun nuts to the mix how many guns do you think will be brandished / shown off / demonstrated uses around the campfire next year?

Secondly, when you get sick of carrying said gun you can't just send it home like you do useless gear. It has to be sent from one gun shop to another gun shop only to be picked up by the owner / sender all the while accruing storage fees. So do we now add to Baltimore Jacks, AT Pages, and Thru Hikers handbook resupply list best places to buy ammo?

Lastly, how about church hostels, Township buildings ( ie Palmerton, PA ), and or any privately owned hostels how many will be closed to the gun carriers and possibly all hikers?. When you take a shower do you then take your gun with you just to get all rusty? Because you can't just leave guns sitting around. Where do you oil and clean your gun? Maybe the common area of a hostel? What if your pack gets stolen ( because it happens every year )? Quite a long slippery slope.

We thought we had problems in with people screwing up in Port Clinton in '07. That I forsee as childs play compared to the future of the AT or any trail / National Park with guns allowed.

Worldwide
gun owner and hiker but not at the same time

Lone Wolf
12-31-2008, 09:31
much ado about nothing. things will remain the same

Worldwide
12-31-2008, 09:36
I hope so Lone Wolf, because I like it as is.

Bucky Katt
12-31-2008, 09:40
Im a 25 year old female --prime target, as some say, and I'm one standin in line to purchase my guns and ammo! Which reminds me...must go drop some hard earned money on ammo...

Lone Wolf
12-31-2008, 09:41
Im a 25 year old female --prime target, as some say, and I'm one standin in line to purchase my guns and ammo! Which reminds me...must go drop some hard earned money on ammo...

and go to range and practice

Bucky Katt
12-31-2008, 09:42
thanks Lone Wolf. I have had instruction. I will target practice. I can use my gun. Geesh, you tell them your a women and they automatically assume you don't know ****.

Toolshed
12-31-2008, 09:54
I stopped at Cabella's Monday (in Hamburg) - Tried to get lunch first at the hotel in Port Clinton but it was closed - Anyways, headed over to the gun counters. All Stacked 3 deep with customers. The crowds were incredible. I waited about 10 minutes and then decided to head home. Maybe I'll stop by today. The checkout lines went almost to the back of the store - Probably 150 feet long. About 20% of the gun crowd were women (my estimate)

PS Saimyoji - They have a lot of used shotguns on sale.

Dances with Mice
12-31-2008, 10:08
Geesh, you tell them your a women and they automatically assume you don't know ****.You mean Wolf? He didn't assume that because you're a woman.

He assumes that about everybody.

Worldwide
12-31-2008, 10:10
I stopped at Cabella's Monday (in Hamburg) - Tried to get lunch first at the hotel in Port Clinton but it was closed - Anyways, headed over to the gun counters. All Stacked 3 deep with customers. The crowds were incredible. I waited about 10 minutes and then decided to head home. Maybe I'll stop by today. The checkout lines wentalmost to the back of the store - Probably 150 feet long. About 20% of the gun crowd were women (my estimate)

PS Saimyoji - They have a lot of used shotguns on sale.

It would make sense that the largest outfitter in the world was crowded for gun sales, but how many of them are hikers?

snowhoe
12-31-2008, 11:09
Yeah I just got mine!! Its a .45 or .46 cant remember.

Plodderman
12-31-2008, 11:22
Never carry a gun hiking and I know it is a right just not interested in carrying.

Ron Haven
12-31-2008, 11:34
gun sales have skyrocketed here in virginny lately. i'm fixin' to make me a purchase next week to go along with my ccw permitThey have here in NC too.I agree with you Lone Wolf.I don't think nothing will be different.People who has broke the law with guns have always been there and always will.

It is like this gun law they passed for having guns on school property.There have never been an arrest yet they've been several masacres.The law never stoppd nothing.All the shooters commited suicide.

The law sounds good but stopped nothing.My opinion is our government needs to execute violent offenders but others think they need tax payers money spent on them to rahabilitate them.:rolleyes:

SloHiker
12-31-2008, 12:12
Fear mongering (or scaremongering) is the use of fear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear) to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetition), in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicious_circle).

Problems, dangers, safety, accidents, injuries, long slippery slopes ..... blah, blah, blah. None of the "predictions" involving the possession, carry or use of firearms by law-abiding citizens, in any circumstance or situation, have ever come true - and they never will!

But some folks just can't seem to leave it alone. I understand the motive though - the phenomenon of "tell the lie often enough, and eventually it will be accepted as the truth" has worked quite well in this country. The MSM has turned it into an art form.

We've got some real problems in America ..... guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens ain't one of them.

Dancer
12-31-2008, 12:24
carry if you want, don't if you don't. I have a gun, can use it, but think it's too heavy to hike with. Anyway, is a perp going to wait for you to fish it out of your pack? Just sayin.... Get a tazer if you feel strongly about it. I think my hiking poles would make good spears....hehehe

Toolshed
12-31-2008, 12:38
It would make sense that the largest outfitter in the world was crowded for gun sales, but how many of them are hikers?
Didn't Ask. Don't care. Not an issue for me.

snowhoe
12-31-2008, 14:37
I have an AR15 but I dont have a clip for it. Gonna get me a rabid infested deer this year!!

Aiwix
12-31-2008, 15:10
Just curious. what type of hand gun would be the best to carry on a thruhike? I was leaning towards a glock, but they do not have safety's on them. A revolver then?

Bulldawg
12-31-2008, 15:19
Just curious. what type of hand gun would be the best to carry on a thruhike? I was leaning towards a glock, but they do not have safety's on them. A revolver then?

Ruger P45.

Lone Wolf
12-31-2008, 15:25
Just curious. what type of hand gun would be the best to carry on a thruhike? I was leaning towards a glock, but they do not have safety's on them. A revolver then?

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14760&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15704&isFirearm=Y

Bucky Katt
12-31-2008, 16:49
carry if you want, don't if you don't. I have a gun, can use it, but think it's too heavy to hike with. Anyway, is a perp going to wait for you to fish it out of your pack? Just sayin.... Get a tazer if you feel strongly about it. I think my hiking poles would make good spears....hehehe


Hiking poles would probably work...maybe...
They have ways that you can carry a concealed handgun and yet still have decent access to it. It would defeat the purpose to bury it in your pack in the event you needed quick access to it, wouldn't it?

Bucky Katt
12-31-2008, 16:54
Just curious. what type of hand gun would be the best to carry on a thruhike? I was leaning towards a glock, but they do not have safety's on them. A revolver then?


You could go with a revolver--but make sure it has a cross bar saftey. Or, if you wanted a semi auto you could just load the clip, but not rack the slide....Only problem with that is, you have to take precious seconds to rack the slide on your gun in the event of an emergency, whereas with a revolver you could simply pull the trigger.

It boils down to whatever you're most comfortable with and whatever you personally feel the safest with using.

take-a-knee
12-31-2008, 16:55
Just curious. what type of hand gun would be the best to carry on a thruhike? I was leaning towards a glock, but they do not have safety's on them. A revolver then?

A Glock has three safeties, they are all automatic. As long as you obey rule three "Keep your finger off the GD trigger until you are looking for your front sight on your already ID'ed target", you'll be fine. If, you don't have the training/understanding/presence of mind to do that, you need training.

If I were to carry a pistol on a hike (I might and then again I might not, for a variety of reasons) this is what I'd carry:

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_9mm_pm.html

I'd get it with tritium night sights, and I'd get the black diamond finish.

This gun will fit inside those Granite Gear belt pouches.

rickb
12-31-2008, 16:56
Just curious. what type of hand gun would be the best to carry on a thruhike?

A mouse gun.

I hear FGNs talking about them all the time, so you should have no problem finding one.

Bucky Katt
12-31-2008, 16:57
can you have night sites put on a gun that doesn't come with them? I know that if you have a skilled machinist you can put on sites that are colored--can you do the same with night sites? That'd be really handy!

Jack Tarlin
12-31-2008, 16:58
Just a quick reminder to folks thinking about carrying: You go thru all sorts of lands and jurisdictions on a thru-hike, never mind going thru 14 different States. There are National Parks; State Parks; National Forests; State Forests; State Game or Hunting Lands; Historical Parks; State or Federal Wilderness Areas; Wildlife Management areas; Preserves;Land Trusts; state "Recreation" areas; Town or County-owned land; privately owned land, and so on. All of these places have their own rules and laws regarding the possession of guns.

Unless you are a law enforcement officer on the Federal level, at some point you'll almost certainly be breaking the law if you decide to carry a firearm on an extended hike of the A.T.

winger
12-31-2008, 19:27
http://www.ruger.com/LCP/index.html

winger
12-31-2008, 19:28
....and yes I plan on "breaking the law"....

take-a-knee
12-31-2008, 19:42
can you have night sites put on a gun that doesn't come with them? I know that if you have a skilled machinist you can put on sites that are colored--can you do the same with night sites? That'd be really handy!

Yes, they come in green or yellow, Meprolight or Trijicon. It is always cheaper to buy the gun with them, not to mention the hassle.

Waterbuffalo
12-31-2008, 19:43
I carry a glock 38 which is .45gap hold 8 rounds and is small enough to conceal and light.There is a smaller version too. Before I got this one I carried a Glock 22 .40 16 rounds kinda heavy for hiking both have lithium night sights.
I always carry one in the chamber FBI stats show a gunfight is over on average in less than 3 seconds which could save your life.
Get a holster made by Blackhawk or Fobus they are able to hold the gun secure at any angle and lock in so if you reach in you dont get a hold of the trigger first. They also are hardshell and made custom for any model not one size fits all.

Waterbuffalo
12-31-2008, 19:45
Sorry Mine has Tridium night sights not lithium the brand is Tru dot and I sweat they glow for months

SunnyWalker
12-31-2008, 22:36
I have no argument with those who carry on a hike or anywhere. As long as they are trained and licensed if required by law. I personally carry a can of OC/CS. Safer for me and I feel I could put someone down with it and get away, etc. Just my personal preference. On a hike I find it is much lighter. I have tried hiking with a handgun many years ago. I found I prefer the gas. I can keep it real handy and easy to get to also.

waywardfool
12-31-2008, 23:02
Just curious. what type of hand gun would be the best to carry on a thruhike? I was leaning towards a glock, but they do not have safety's on them. A revolver then?

12 oz S&W 340PD -- scandium frame and titanium cylinder, 357 mag DAO. or save $200 bucks, add 1.3 oz, for the M&P 340, same with ss cylinder. Do a lockectomy.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14765&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15704&isFirearm=Y

Revolver for ease of maintenance, cleaning, fewer moving parts, less problems with long-term moisture/wet, etc.

A DAO revolver does not have a "safety" per se...pull the trigger, it goes bang.

All pistols, glocks included, have at least two safeties. First is between your ears. Second is a proper holster, that covers and protects the trigger...most modern hand guns will not/cannot "go off" unless the trigger is pulled.

and...

Safety Rule #5 "Keep your bugger hook off the bang switch."

Desert Reprobate
12-31-2008, 23:54
I have no argument with those who carry on a hike or anywhere. As long as they are trained and licensed if required by law. I personally carry a can of OC/CS. Safer for me and I feel I could put someone down with it and get away, etc. Just my personal preference. On a hike I find it is much lighter. I have tried hiking with a handgun many years ago. I found I prefer the gas. I can keep it real handy and easy to get to also.
Sunny Walker is right. If you don't have extensive handgun training, you could end up a menace to yourself and others on the trail. CS will work on dogs, weird hikers, bears anything you may come across.

waywardfool
01-01-2009, 00:37
CS will work on dogs, weird hikers, bears anything you may come across.

Being a gun guy, and in light of my previous post, I will say that I very much agree with this. If I were to thru-hike, and not section hiking, definitely no gun due to weight. A week of an extra 12oz is far different than 4-5 months. One reason I got an airweight revolver is not necessarily for the trail, but security at rest stops, gas stations, etc to and from section hikes (3 to 10 hours one way for me typically, often at night). Many more BG's and nutjobs there than on the trail. I wouldn't be a responsible gun owner if I left it in the car at a trailhead parking lot...so it has to go with me on the trail.

OC is not bad for giving you a little 'get-away' time. Good to have some plan, though for getting farther away if something bad does happen...pepper spray will only incapacitate at best a few minutes....do you go up/down the trail (in a predictable direction to the BG and his buddies, or off-trail and out of sight? Then what do you do?) In some areas of the trail, I'm not sure I'd want to shoot a BG...half his family might be within earshot, and my luck he'd be the backwoods' Sheriff's brother in law. (Wasn't that a movie?)

Someone mentioned hiking staffs as self defense. It would truly take years to become proficient....but a few hours with someone well trained in martial arts could teach you a lot about how they could be used more effectively to stop a threat. Remember, the bad guy you have a run in with might be an ex-marine, or ex-police officer, and well-versed and trained in self-defense against such tactics. Most hand to hand fighting anyway goes to the ground...that's a whole different animal than poking or clubbing somebody with a stick. ("There's no such thing as a fair fight...")

None of the above would do a bit of good in some situations we've seen on/near the trail. I'm sure a good number of the trail assaults we've heard of had some forewarning. I know several times I've met up either with locals or "hikers" that didn't sit right with me, and moved on. Probably nothing to it, but I wasn't of the mindset to wait around and find out.

A good website to check out is www.nononsenseselfdefense.com Neither pro-gun or anti-gun, it has lots of info on not becoming a victim, with an emphasis on situational awareness as a prevention tool, and how self-esteem and physical appearance/presentation can avoid or deflect confrontations.

Desert Reprobate
01-01-2009, 00:59
I'm not anti-gun. I'm just concerned about people taking a firearm on a trek like this without proper training. The best defense is awareness of your surroundings. This will allow you to avoid a lot of problems. I do agree it is better to carry the gun than leave it in your vehicle at the trailhead for 5-6 months. I haven't decided yet how I am going to handle the situation when I start my hike.

waywardfool
01-01-2009, 01:32
I'm not anti-gun. I'm just concerned about people taking a firearm on a trek like this without proper training.

Didn't take it that you were either for or against....just reinforcing what you said in a round about way. OC is a great self defensive tool, in many situations. Gives time for escape and evasion. OC and other methods do have their place...on a thru, more so than a firearm.


The best defense is awareness of your surroundings. This will allow you to avoid a lot of problems.

Amen... true at the mall, office, etc, too. I preach "situational awareness" whenever I can...if it doesn't feel right, it may not be...get out is the safest option...limit, eliminate, or deflect confrontation...the best way is separation from the threat. Easier in some trail situations than others, and for some people than others.


I do agree it is better to carry the gun than leave it in your vehicle at the trailhead for 5-6 months. I haven't decided yet how I am going to handle the situation when I start my hike.

I'm thinking from a section hiker perspective...wouldn't leave it for an overnight (or an hour)....much less 5 months.

Here's a dancing bananner for a decent discussion! :banana

Wise Old Owl
01-01-2009, 02:16
It's sad folks, I work in some of the worst neighborhoods of west and south Philadelphia in the last three years and now in Wilmington. I never felt the need, even when working with law enforcement and gun shops in my profession. I have served as a witness for the prosecution side of a trial on a homacide. We are discussing the most unnecessary pound & a half of metal needed for the trail. Nothing UL about it. If you use your weapon under any circumstances on the AT be prepared to have the worst five years of the rest of your life.


I am not against guns, I just don't want to loose the best job of my life or get deported.

I just wonder why these threads get started over and over again here on WB.

buckwheat
01-01-2009, 05:59
Unless you are a law enforcement officer on the Federal level, at some point you'll almost certainly be breaking the law if you decide to carry a firearm on an extended hike of the A.T.

So?

There might be thousands of unconstitutional laws that you might be breaking no matter what you are doing, but you should be breaking those laws with impunity, out of a sense of duty to your country.

The law also used to say you could own black people as slaves and that women couldn't vote.

Here's what the Bill of Rights has to say about whether you can possess a firearm:

"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The United States Supreme Court has ruled this text to confer an individual right (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/26/supremecourt/main4211588.shtml) to own and carry a firearm for self defense, striking down an unconstitutional law that was used for 32 years to falsely arrest people and prevent them from exercising their ancient and God-given rights. Thousands died at the hands of criminals during those 32 years that people were illegally prevented from protecting themselves.

Keep this in mind: You can be arrested at any time, for breaking any unconstitutional law that the police choose to arrest you for. However, as a citizen, you have the duty to fight such arrests in court not only of yourself, but your fellow citizens.

Otherwise, the government might get the idea that all of your other rights are also up for negotiation.

Carry, or don't carry a firearm. It's up to you, but the United States Supreme Court says you can and so does the Bill of Rights. Do not be cowered by those who would threaten you with arrest for violating unconstitutional laws.

Lone Wolf
01-01-2009, 07:52
We are discussing the most unnecessary pound & a half of metal needed for the trail.

I just wonder why these threads get started over and over again here on WB.

maybe for you but others disagree. sad fact is every year women are being assaulted on the trail

Worldwide
01-01-2009, 08:53
You think the ATF was all over us at Trail Days this year, and that was untaxed liquor problems. Now we justify their being there with last letter of the acronym being the issue too.

Homer&Marje
01-01-2009, 09:04
much ado about nothing. things will remain the same


Not after some of these obvious earmarks are cleared up after Jan. 20. This just gives people who might commit a felony with the use of a gun availability and viability to do it in the National Parks.

If your hunting. Carry. If your not. What's the use? Don't be so insecure.

Homer&Marje
01-01-2009, 09:06
maybe for you but others disagree. sad fact is every year women are being assaulted on the trail

Probably by some A Hole who now has the legality to carry a gun to make himself more of a danger and more menacing. How many women have you protected with your gun oh Knight Lone Wolf?

Not saying that it does not happen, just saying there's a better chance to hit powerball or discover your own species whilst on the trail.

Lone Wolf
01-01-2009, 09:26
Probably by some A Hole who now has the legality to carry a gun to make himself more of a danger and more menacing. How many women have you protected with your gun oh Knight Lone Wolf?

Not saying that it does not happen, just saying there's a better chance to hit powerball or discover your own species whilst on the trail.

you don't hike

Lone Wolf
01-01-2009, 09:29
If your hunting. Carry. If your not. What's the use? Don't be so insecure.

never said i carried, kid. why you carry water treatment and bear spray/ what's the use? don't be so insecure

Toolshed
01-01-2009, 09:39
<snipped>...I am not against guns, I just don't want to loose the best job of my life or get deported.

I just wonder why these threads get started over and over again here on WB.



Probably by some A Hole who now has the legality to carry a gun to make himself more of a danger and more menacing. How many women have you protected with your gun oh Knight Lone Wolf?

Not saying that it does not happen, just saying there's a better chance to hit powerball or discover your own species whilst on the trail.


Why is it that folks on WB cannot have a discussion among themselves about what gear they carry or like, without Morons continoully dropping in to tell us how they feel about "us" hiking our own Hike.

Yeah. We know that you don't like ("ewww") guns
Yeah. We know that you want to make sure you continually chide us on the boundaries of carry locations because it gets your panties in a wad.
Yeah. We know that you are macho and feel that you can rationalize away any possible reason as to why you won't carry, or why you will not or cannot get a permit (and I know there are a few of you out there that cannot get permits).

Go Over to to the Trekking Pole Thread
Go over to the IPOD Thread
Go over to the Hammock Hanging thread
Go over to the Pepsi Can Stove thread
Annoy those folks for a bit but HIKE YOUR OWN HIKE AND QUIT WHINING ON GUN THREADS !!

Lone Wolf
01-01-2009, 09:50
won't be long 'fore the gun haters get this one shut down :) but sadly every year women are being threatened on the AT. last year 4 women were targets that i remember. 1 murdered, 1 abducted and sexually assaulted, 1 stalked and quit the trail and 1 women had some freak try to get in her car. there's probably more but they didn't make the news. but seems tghes are acceptable. personal protection is not needed against other humans but make sure you have bear spray :) NOBODY gets attacked by bears on the AT

Joey
01-01-2009, 10:17
If you wanna carry one, carry it. If you don't - well don't. But quit with the damn bleeding heart liberal crap. It's a right to own and posses firearms. LoneWolf is right with the number of assaults that have occurred not only on women but males too. I personally don't carry one, because I was a LE officer and was trained in several self defense areas. I never think of the dangers out there. If you do, it will screw with your head constantly. When I stopped a car on the highway, if I worried about being shot everytime I did that, my career would have been a VERY short one. There are arguments to both sides of this matter. But, the number of miles and times I have been hiking, not once have I met or been worried about who I met or overnighted at a campsite with. Every occasion was fun and great friendships were made. If you are that damn scared, find another form of hobby to enjoy.

Darwin again
01-01-2009, 10:42
Scared old men buying some peace of mind (what little is left, that is).
The naked apes have made fear an art form.

Darwin again
01-01-2009, 10:43
won't be long 'fore the gun haters get this one shut down :) but sadly every year women are being threatened on the AT. last year 4 women were targets that i remember. 1 murdered, 1 abducted and sexually assaulted, 1 stalked and quit the trail and 1 women had some freak try to get in her car. there's probably more but they didn't make the news. but seems tghes are acceptable. personal protection is not needed against other humans but make sure you have bear spray :) NOBODY gets attacked by bears on the AT


You should be very safe, then.

Homer&Marje
01-01-2009, 11:12
you don't hike

I do hike. I don't carry bear spray. I do treat my water. Maybe to no avail or end result.


Why is it that folks on WB cannot have a discussion among themselves about what gear they carry or like, without Morons continoully dropping in to tell us how they feel about "us" hiking our own Hike.

Yeah. We know that you don't like ("ewww") guns
Yeah. We know that you want to make sure you continually chide us on the boundaries of carry locations because it gets your panties in a wad.
Yeah. We know that you are macho and feel that you can rationalize away any possible reason as to why you won't carry, or why you will not or cannot get a permit (and I know there are a few of you out there that cannot get permits).

Go Over to to the Trekking Pole Thread
Go over to the IPOD Thread
Go over to the Hammock Hanging thread
Go over to the Pepsi Can Stove thread
Annoy those folks for a bit but HIKE YOUR OWN HIKE AND QUIT WHINING ON GUN THREADS !!

This isn't a what do you carry while your on the AT which is STILL ILLEGAL on most parts of the AT no matter the new law. But that's what this thread is about. Need a reminder, you can read it while you sit at home and think of lesser than you's that you can shoot.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif Concealed Weapons in Parks
Saw on tv this evening that North Carolina had approved the bill to carry concealed weapons on federal lands and even parks with a concealed weapons permit.

waywardfool
01-01-2009, 11:39
This just gives people who might commit a felony with the use of a gun availability and viability to do it in the National Parks.

Uh, hate to bust your bubble, but the folks setting out to commit a felony anywhere are not concerned about whether they can or cannot legally carry a weapon, whether it be on the street, in a theater, or in a national park. I just want to be on equal footing.


How many women have you protected with your gun

I'll say this, then taking a break... I decided a long time ago that I carry to protect myself, my wife and my family. Only them. Someone else makes the decision not to protect themselves, they'd sure better not think I may come charging in to save the day. With liabilities and the legal system the way it is, if it's somebody else, I'll just be a "good citizen" and be a good witness and report it. You never know if that assault on a woman might be an ex-boyfriend or something, and who started what. IOW, if she actually started the fight, and escalation of force, and you came in and "saved the day"...it could be deemed murder, not "self defense", if she started the whole situation. You never know. The only exception to my rule is a child...if a child I do not know is being assaulted by an adult, no holds barred.

waywardfool
01-01-2009, 11:40
Oh, HYOH.

Lone Wolf
01-01-2009, 13:24
You should be very safe, then.

correct. i choose not to be a defenseless victim like most :cool:

rickb
01-01-2009, 13:43
won't be long 'fore the gun haters get this one shut down :) but sadly every year women are being threatened on the AT. last year 4 women were targets that i remember. 1 murdered, 1 abducted and sexually assaulted, 1 stalked and quit the trail and 1 women had some freak try to get in her car. there's probably more but they didn't make the news. but seems tghes are acceptable. personal protection is not needed against other humans but make sure you have bear spray :) NOBODY gets attacked by bears on the AT

Good post.

Not PC, but this is the kind of info that should be printed on the backcover of every trail guide. Not to alarm, but to balance out the current mantra of the Trail being the safest place in America.

Wise Old Owl
01-01-2009, 14:05
Toolshed - your post #50 "you you" .... I can't quote it, as I am on a dial-up at the moment. I am trying to be part of the discussion, no I am not chiding boundries. I have a clean 40+year record with the FBI and Interpol, so yes I can get the permit. I have read the thread very carefully and I am trying to get this idea noticed. I hope you are not calling me a moron.

Take a gun and turn it into an ideal car for a moment, You have a right to get a licence to drive, you go out and practice with your dad's car for a while. You are now licenced to drive down the highway. Did anyone think they are not going to have an accident? Not to many of us have a perfect driving record in life.

What as adults do we take away from the last guy who used a gun in clear self defence against another hot headed attacking adult and two dogs? He was in a park, he used his gun in self defence. He got several years in court and lost his case and is now serving a score of years in Jail. I am asking if you thought it through, and do you know a good lawyer..... Your choice to carry a glock & ammo (a pound and a half) is your choice, your right to conceal it is fine by me.

Oh and LW, A year and a half ago we were all posting how safe the AT was and then Meridith was killed, another unfortunate moment for trail history, Today gun purchases are way up in these hard economic times. My how WB has progressivly changed too.

On an another note, only because I am not sure, I saw you don't need the permit in Texas if its clearly on your belt, would that be true if you were on the AT?

rickb
01-01-2009, 14:09
Oh and LW, A year and a half ago we were all posting how safe the AT was ...


Not L Wolf.

Lone Wolf
01-01-2009, 14:12
Oh and LW, A year and a half ago we were all posting how safe the AT was and then Meridith was killed, another unfortunate moment for trail history,

Oh and WOO, don't include me in your "we" group of safety advocates. women will continue to be the targets of murder, rape and assaults on the AT. you and your buds just keep tellin' 'em not to worry about personal protection. it doesn't happen often enuf.

Toolshed
01-01-2009, 14:31
I do hike. I don't carry bear spray. I do treat my water. Maybe to no avail or end result.



This isn't a what do you carry while your on the AT which is STILL ILLEGAL on most parts of the AT no matter the new law. But that's what this thread is about. Need a reminder, you can read it while you sit at home and think of lesser than you's that you can shoot.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif Concealed Weapons in Parks
Saw on tv this evening that North Carolina had approved the bill to carry concealed weapons on federal lands and even parks with a concealed weapons permit.


Probably by some A Hole who now has the legality to carry a gun to make himself more of a danger and more menacing. How many women have you protected with your gun oh Knight Lone Wolf?

Not saying that it does not happen, just saying there's a better chance to hit powerball or discover your own species whilst on the trail.
Oh...I don't know Cookie...Looks like you brought up the Trail earlier.

Toolshed
01-01-2009, 14:36
Toolshed - your post #50 "you you" .... I can't quote it, as I am on a dial-up at the moment. I am trying to be part of the discussion, no I am not chiding boundries. I have a clean 40+year record with the FBI and Interpol, so yes I can get the permit. I have read the thread very carefully and I am trying to get this idea noticed. I hope you are not calling me a moron.

Take a gun and turn it into an ideal car for a moment, You have a right to get a licence to drive, you go out and practice with your dad's car for a while. You are now licenced to drive down the highway. Did anyone think they are not going to have an accident? Not to many of us have a perfect driving record in life.

What as adults do we take away from the last guy who used a gun in clear self defence against another hot headed attacking adult and two dogs? He was in a park, he used his gun in self defence. He got several years in court and lost his case and is now serving a score of years in Jail. I am asking if you thought it through, and do you know a good lawyer..... Your choice to carry a glock & ammo (a pound and a half) is your choice, your right to conceal it is fine by me.

Oh and LW, A year and a half ago we were all posting how safe the AT was and then Meridith was killed, another unfortunate moment for trail history, Today gun purchases are way up in these hard economic times. My how WB has progressivly changed too.

On an another note, only because I am not sure, I saw you don't need the permit in Texas if its clearly on your belt, would that be true if you were on the AT?
Mark,
I added your comment agreeing that these threads keep getting brought up again and again.
I was going to make a comment that those that don't want guns on the trail start their own forum, like the women's forum, where they can all post and those who just HYOH would stay out. I never got that far :p
The Moron comment was directed at Cookie- and not just a shot over his bow. :sun

STEVEM
01-01-2009, 14:42
Toolshed - your post #50 "you you" .... I can't quote it, as I am on a dial-up at the moment. I am trying to be part of the discussion, no I am not chiding boundries. I have a clean 40+year record with the FBI and Interpol, so yes I can get the permit. I have read the thread very carefully and I am trying to get this idea noticed. I hope you are not calling me a moron.

Take a gun and turn it into an ideal car for a moment, You have a right to get a licence to drive, you go out and practice with your dad's car for a while. You are now licenced to drive down the highway. Did anyone think they are not going to have an accident? Not to many of us have a perfect driving record in life.

What as adults do we take away from the last guy who used a gun in clear self defence against another hot headed attacking adult and two dogs? He was in a park, he used his gun in self defence. He got several years in court and lost his case and is now serving a score of years in Jail. I am asking if you thought it through, and do you know a good lawyer..... Your choice to carry a glock & ammo (a pound and a half) is your choice, your right to conceal it is fine by me.

Oh and LW, A year and a half ago we were all posting how safe the AT was and then Meridith was killed, another unfortunate moment for trail history, Today gun purchases are way up in these hard economic times. My how WB has progressivly changed too.

On an another note, only because I am not sure, I saw you don't need the permit in Texas if its clearly on your belt, would that be true if you were on the AT?

Debating guns on Whiteblaze is useless. No one on either side is going to give an inch. Just like driving a car, all you can do is hope you're not in the wrong place at the wrong time. There can be no doubt that an AT hiker will shoot himself or an innocent bystander, or perhaps even an actual attacker. Too bad Harold Fish isn't a WB member I imagine he'd be able to offer some insight, he's had plenty of time to think about the consequences.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15199221/

Wise Old Owl
01-01-2009, 15:40
Well Steve, I am not sure if I am debating, but I am sure I have learned a lot. And a interview with Harold now that his court time is over, would be interesting.


LW - I guess my previous comment was misunderstood, I was agreeing with you. Saftey Advocates? no I was talking about the membership in general from a thread a year and a half ago.

Sly
01-01-2009, 16:10
...

Poor taste and not the way to start a new year.

Joey
01-01-2009, 16:11
...
Let me tell you one thing friend, I have worked for years with the Special Olympic Kids and for you to downgrade them that way, I would love to see you face to face right now. That just shows how much of a low down piece of crap you really are. These kids are special and if half of this world would put the heart and soul into their daily lives the way these kids do, we would not have the scum bags such as yourself walking the streets. You want to make comments about retarded kids, DO IT IN FRONT OF ME!! Otherwise, keep your lowlife comments off of this board. By the way, my young cousin is as you say "retarded". To the other WB members, I apologize for being irate right now, but this piece of s#&t individual has crossed the line with me and he is lucky I am not anywhere close to him right now!! Yes I take this VERY personal when it comes to these kids!

Worldwide
01-01-2009, 16:23
Take it personal or impersonal I don't care. If you truly want to find me just ask around, read trail registers and my itinerary for '09 is posted on the ride share board. However, once you do find me you will realize I am an incorrigible jerk with loose morals and someone you won't be able to bend to your will. It is great you spend time with special olympians. If that volunteer work makes you get all misty eyed great. However, get over yourself I am not impressed.

4eyedbuzzard
01-01-2009, 16:40
Keep this thread on subject and stop the abusive comments or it will be closed.

Homer&Marje
01-01-2009, 16:54
Oh...I don't know Cookie...Looks like you brought up the Trail earlier.


Mark,
I added your comment agreeing that these threads keep getting brought up again and again.
I was going to make a comment that those that don't want guns on the trail start their own forum, like the women's forum, where they can all post and those who just HYOH would stay out. I never got that far :p
The Moron comment was directed at Cookie- and not just a shot over his bow. :sun

I don't believe me responding with name calling would have helped at all. These threads about the new gun laws are getting out of hand because it is supposed to be about the actual LEGALITY of carrying a weapon on the AT. Not who's kid you might save, not the amount of people that get attacked on the AT and especially not about the Special Olympics.

And for the reference, I have worked with Special Needs in all age groups through my life, my mother is a Special Education Pre-School teacher that I do a lot of work with and one of my best friends has Muscular Dystrophy.

But I can also make a joke or read one without getting my panties in a bunch. Too bad you all can't see both sides to an issue. No matter what it is.

I've never bad mouthed gun owners for their opinions the way us "Anti-gun Fairies" get bad mouthed for simply saying there is NO NEED for guns in NATIONAL PARKS. That's it, that's the issue. Keep it at home protect your family and your property, but if you step out into the big bad world with all the scary people and your so paranoid you need your gun to go on a hike. Stay home.

I will HMOH without a gun, with my filter and with a god forsaken friggin' smile on my face.

I suggest the same.

Sly
01-01-2009, 17:15
Good post.

Not PC, but this is the kind of info that should be printed on the backcover of every trail guide. Not to alarm, but to balance out the current mantra of the Trail being the safest place in America.

The problem is each state has different rules and you're only in National Parks proper for about 200 miles. For example, unless you have a permit to carry in MA it's not likely an out of stater will get one.

Maybe the ATC can come up with a thru-hiker gun permit. :D

Feral Bill
01-01-2009, 20:03
Keep this thread on subject and stop the abusive comments or it will be closed.

Given the lack of civility and specific advocacy of illegal actions I think that's a splendid idea.

For the record I don't care if others carry or not.

Lone Wolf
01-01-2009, 20:04
For the record I don't care if others carry or not.

i prefer others do

Toolshed
01-01-2009, 20:48
.... Not who's kid you might save, not the amount of people that get attacked on the AT and especially not about the Special Olympics.

And for the reference, I have worked with Special Needs in all age groups through my life, my mother is a Special Education Pre-School teacher that I do a lot of work with and one of my best friends has Muscular Dystrophy.

Get your facts straight Cookie - I never made those comments and I don't care about your references.


....

I've never bad mouthed gun owners for their opinions the way us "Anti-gun Fairies" get bad mouthed for simply saying there is NO NEED for guns in NATIONAL PARKS. That's it, that's the issue. Keep it at home protect your family and your property, but if you step out into the big bad world with all the scary people and your so paranoid you need your gun to go on a hike. Stay home.
See that's it right there Cookie. You make those assumptions on why folks carry.


I will HMOH without a gun, with my filter and with a god forsaken friggin' smile on my face.
.....
Told you to HYOH already this morning. Glad to see sink it. AS for WHAT you carry or don't carry - UNDERSTAND THIS: I REALLY DON'T CARE!!

Bulldawg
01-01-2009, 21:11
I don't believe me responding with name calling would have helped at all. These threads about the new gun laws are getting out of hand because it is supposed to be about the actual LEGALITY of carrying a weapon on the AT. Not who's kid you might save, not the amount of people that get attacked on the AT and especially not about the Special Olympics.

And for the reference, I have worked with Special Needs in all age groups through my life, my mother is a Special Education Pre-School teacher that I do a lot of work with and one of my best friends has Muscular Dystrophy.

But I can also make a joke or read one without getting my panties in a bunch. Too bad you all can't see both sides to an issue. No matter what it is.

I've never bad mouthed gun owners for their opinions the way us "Anti-gun Fairies" get bad mouthed for simply saying there is NO NEED for guns in NATIONAL PARKS. That's it, that's the issue. Keep it at home protect your family and your property, but if you step out into the big bad world with all the scary people and your so paranoid you need your gun to go on a hike. Stay home.

I will HMOH without a gun, with my filter and with a god forsaken friggin' smile on my face.

I suggest the same.


I thought you were going to take a break from WB a few weeks ago??? When exactly did that happen??:welcome:welcome

michael rowlands
01-01-2009, 21:18
I am a 4000 miler of the A.T. I also love to hunt. I probably would never carry a gun on the trail for the reason that the thing would be real heavy. Don't get me wrong. I am not a go light hiker either but the weight of a gun is about 20 candy bars! HA. I however am a person who was very close to death while being on the trail. When I thru hiked in 1981 two people were murdered on the trail near Pearisburg Va. in the Wapiti shelter. I was three days ahead of them when it happened. I have wondered if they woould have been killed if one of the hikers killed would have been armed at the time it happened. It is a dangerous world in which we live and if properly used a weapon can give alot of security to a person hiking alone. I do believe that conceiled means that no one should ever see the weapon as not to make others nervous. Rowmin Goat

Wise Old Owl
01-01-2009, 23:26
The problem is each state has different rules and you're only in National Parks proper for about 200 miles. For example, unless you have a permit to carry in MA it's not likely an out of stater will get one.

Maybe the ATC can come up with a thru-hiker gun permit. :D

Sly I know you are trying to help and don't quote me on this, my Prison Officer friends say there is a concealed weapon license that is good for the southern half of the US, I think that was also brought up in the lightweight Gun thread in the subscription forum six months ago. I don't understand it, it might be reciprocal agreements.

4eyedbuzzard
01-02-2009, 00:23
Sly I know you are trying to help and don't quote me on this, my Prison Officer friends say there is a concealed weapon license that is good for the southern half of the US, I think that was also brought up in the lightweight Gun thread in the subscription forum six months ago. I don't understand it, it might be reciprocal agreements.

Reciprocity argreements allow many to carry legally on much of the trail. But you have to be careful as state reciprocity agreements can change, especially around the New Year.

http://www.carryconcealed.net/ has some good info as does http://www.handgunlaw.us/

Wise Old Owl
01-02-2009, 00:56
Well that is good to know, I can go back and discuss that with my friends, perhaps I can pick up a few more gems.

Sly
01-02-2009, 01:05
Reciprocity argreements allow many to carry legally on much of the trail. But you have to be careful as state reciprocity agreements can change, especially around the New Year.

http://www.carryconcealed.net/ has some good info as does http://www.handgunlaw.us/

I noticed lots of states allow a MA CCW, but MA doesn't reciprocate. Regardless, I don't think anyone is allowed to carry in every trail state without a special permit.

HikerRanky
01-02-2009, 01:14
I noticed lots of states allow a MA CCW, but MA doesn't reciprocate. Regardless, I don't think anyone is allowed to carry in every trail state without a special permit.

I believe that LEO's are allowed to carry concealed in all 50 states....

slow
01-02-2009, 01:30
Is there a cal size limit,or the amount of guns one can carry?

4eyedbuzzard
01-02-2009, 01:54
I believe that LEO's are allowed to carry concealed in all 50 states....

LEO's and retired LEO's (who meet certain requirements)are exempted under LEOSA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Officers_Safety_Act)from state and local laws that prohibit carrying a concealed weapon, but they are still subject to any Federal laws and regulations that are not specifically covered under the LEOSA act. LEOSA does not supercede Federal law. They are also not exempt from state and local laws regarding purchase, registration, etc, nor carrying in specific places that are restricted(such as private property, courtrooms, government offices, nuclear plants, etc) under federal, state, or local laws. Nor does the act grant them police powers in jurisdictions other than there own. Outside their jurisdiction, they are extended no different treatment from that a private citizen would enjoy from a prosecution or civil action standpoint. Essentially, outside their own jurisdiction, LEOSA grants the same rights to LEO's that a private citizen would have with a concealed carry permit. Relative to this thread, LEOSA did not grant LEO's the right to carry in National Parks. Now, with the repeal of the NPS regulation, they may do so, just as any permitted private citizen may.

4eyedbuzzard
01-02-2009, 02:07
Is there a cal size limit,or the amount of guns one can carry?

That would be determined by existing federal and state laws regarding the legality of specific firearms. But, basically, no. If the weapon(s) is legal under ATF and state laws, and carried concealed, it would otherwise be legal regardless of caliber, and the law does not address carrying multiple weapons or quantity of ammunition.

Mortician
01-02-2009, 02:40
Now add gun nuts to the mix how many guns do you think will be brandished / shown off / demonstrated uses around the campfire next year?


I understand your concerns about safety if everyone was pulling out a weapon around the campfire, but this just will not be the case for those hikers with permits.

As a rule, Concealed Weapons Permits require that the weapon remain concealed; indeed you will face felony charges in Florida if you show your weapon for any reason but self defense.

Toolshed
01-02-2009, 11:09
When I accidently lived in MA I was issued a "Large Capacity Firearms" Concealed Carry Permit. It was a little easier to get a permit there than it was in NY. In NYS it took about 8 months. Both states do an In-Depth Psychiatric background check. Problem in that the state won't allow firearms companeis to sell handguns unless they (Firearms company) sport a bond of some sort with the state (amounts to a large payment). So used handguns carry a premium.

jcramin
01-02-2009, 11:10
WOW your a gun owner and you have most these facts wrong ???? Please lookup your info before you try and state facts.



I know we all enjoy our freedoms. However, the people that will be packing heat are the ones who need it least for protection. The usual targets / casualties of the trail are 20 - 30 year old women/girls. I don't see them standing 100 deep at the gun shop buying weapons. It is a long slippery slope in my opinion.

First of all, has anyone considered that all along we didn't need guns to hike until now. Now that it is allowed people are gonna be shooting up the parks like Yosemite Sam while on a moonshine bender. Think of all the gear heads on the trail talking gear, showing gear to each other demonstrating it uses. Now add gun nuts to the mix how many guns do you think will be brandished / shown off / demonstrated uses around the campfire next year?

Secondly, when you get sick of carrying said gun you can't just send it home like you do useless gear. It has to be sent from one gun shop to another gun shop only to be picked up by the owner / sender all the while accruing storage fees. So do we now add to Baltimore Jacks, AT Pages, and Thru Hikers handbook resupply list best places to buy ammo?

Lastly, how about church hostels, Township buildings ( ie Palmerton, PA ), and or any privately owned hostels how many will be closed to the gun carriers and possibly all hikers?. When you take a shower do you then take your gun with you just to get all rusty? Because you can't just leave guns sitting around. Where do you oil and clean your gun? Maybe the common area of a hostel? What if your pack gets stolen ( because it happens every year )? Quite a long slippery slope.

We thought we had problems in with people screwing up in Port Clinton in '07. That I forsee as childs play compared to the future of the AT or any trail / National Park with guns allowed.

Worldwide
gun owner and hiker but not at the same time

Worldwide
01-02-2009, 11:27
What is it you have issue with my opinion or the 20 - 30 year old women target list?

Because you cannot legally send a firearm to just anyone.

The rest is opinion deal with that how you may

Worldwide
01-02-2009, 11:32
Also since you are the factual type dig some up for me that refure what I say.

take-a-knee
01-02-2009, 11:32
I understand your concerns about safety if everyone was pulling out a weapon around the campfire, but this just will not be the case for those hikers with permits.

As a rule, Concealed Weapons Permits require that the weapon remain concealed; indeed you will face felony charges in Florida if you show your weapon for any reason but self defense.

Not always the case, many states are changing/eliminating the "brandishment" clause in their laws after hurricane Katrina. This enables those with a CCW permit to carry openly in those states, as they should be allowed to do (The wise falcon hides his talons, though). This does NOT enable you to point a weapon at anyone, that will always be potentially a criminal act unless you have a viable/legal ("I feared for my life") reason to do so.

Worrying about pistols being, "Pulled out around the campfire", as long as the owners don't allow their muzzle to cover anyone (Laser Rule) is an irrational fear (hoplophobia).

Bucky Katt
01-02-2009, 11:39
Yes, they come in green or yellow, Meprolight or Trijicon. It is always cheaper to buy the gun with them, not to mention the hassle.


I know someone who is skilled at this type of thing....and he voluntered to do it for me. Unfortunately, the gun I have doesn't have colored sites or night sites and I'd really like to remedy this.

Good to know about the night sites. I've never seen them on a revolver before.

Alligator
01-02-2009, 13:44
Second warning about keeping it civil, stop the baiting.

take-a-knee
01-02-2009, 14:37
Second warning about keeping it civil, stop the baiting.

For example Obiwan?

Homer&Marje
01-02-2009, 15:43
Get your facts straight Cookie - I never made those comments and I don't care about your references.


See that's it right there Cookie. You make those assumptions on why folks carry.

Told you to HYOH already this morning. Glad to see sink it. AS for WHAT you carry or don't carry - UNDERSTAND THIS: I REALLY DON'T CARE!!

I never made any assumptions as to why people carry. It's quite obvious that if you need to Carry and Conceal a Weapon hence CCW permits in National Parks then you or anyone is stepping outside with some measured fear of what might happen. No fear, no gun, no?

Not that I care...but why do you carry then? To show off your piece while in the woods to your buddies you meet....which has been discussed as illegal. Is it to hunt? Well that would be silly because that's not what a CCW permit is for. Is it just to add a little weight to your pack because it was unbalanced on one side?

WHY if your not afraid of something happening, then, do you need to carry and conceal while hiking. Which I will mention again, would be completely illegal for 50-75% of the trail unless you acquired who knows how many separate permits over the course of years of planning.

Bulldawg
01-02-2009, 15:49
Not that I care...but why do you carry then? To show off your piece while in the woods to your buddies you meet....which has been discussed as illegal. Is it to hunt? Well that would be silly because that's not what a CCW permit is for. Is it just to add a little weight to your pack because it was unbalanced on one side?

WHY if your not afraid of something happening, then, do you need to carry and conceal while hiking. Which I will mention again, would be completely illegal for 50-75% of the trail unless you acquired who knows how many separate permits over the course of years of planning.

If you don't care, then why do you ask??? Trolling??

Alligator
01-02-2009, 15:52
For example Obiwan?For example, looking to insult someone rather than posting factual information about concealed weapons in parks. If that's too difficult for people to do, then specific individuals can have their posting privileges removed or the thread can get closed. If the intent is to provide information or civil discussion that's fine, but there is zero interest in moderating gun threads when both sides can't help but throw out their digs.

Homer&Marje
01-02-2009, 15:53
If you don't care, then why do you ask??? Trolling??

If anyone here is trolling, you are. If you'll notice the caption that I quoted in my post, you'll realize the play on words. Sorry your not a literary savant and could not pick that up.

Bulldawg
01-02-2009, 15:56
If anyone here is trolling, you are. If you'll notice the caption that I quoted in my post, you'll realize the play on words. Sorry your not a literary savant and could not pick that up.


Nah, I'm not a literary savant. I don't spend all my spare time lurking and trolling on internet forums. I actually hike when I have free time. Quite a concept Cookie!!

Lone Wolf
01-02-2009, 15:57
time to sew this one up mr. gator

Alligator
01-02-2009, 15:57
Forget it closed.