View Full Version : Winding trails
TrippinBTM
12-31-2008, 20:21
So, I was just reading on the "triple crown" thread about the Hayduke trail in Arizona. A link to a site said this:
According to Joe and Mike, the authors of the recently published The Hayduke Trail (http://www.upress.utah.edu/), the routes circuitous corridor is, “…not intended to be the most direct way through the region, nor is it always the easiest or even the most logical route…” After pouring over maps for the past few months, I can do nothing but agree!
(source: http://www.ula-equipment.com/hayduke/index.htm)
...and it reminded me of certain sections on the AT that were also illogical. Many times we (fellow hikers and I) would joke that we could almost smell the testosterone, thanks to competing trail clubs/maintainer groups. I heard it said (don't remember who said it, or if I read it, what source) that the AT is a white-man's trail... as no self respecting Indian would ever walk such a difficult path in his travels.
What do you guys think about this? Should the trail be a more logical, and so easier, route of travel? Or should it be kept challenging and interesting by taking the long and difficult way around? And what are, in your mind, the most infamous sections of ridiculous trail?
Lone Wolf
12-31-2008, 21:14
it's fine the way it is. nothing tough about it
And what are, in your mind, the most infamous sections of ridiculous trail?
I have always found the Delaware section to be oddly laid out. Especially the beach walk.
I have always found the Delaware section to be oddly laid out. Especially the beach walk.
The part of the AT that went through Rhode Island seemed rather odd.
Granted, the very northwest corner of the state is the very tail-end of the Appalachian foothills, but it did seem to out of the way before hooking back up to the Berkshires.
TrippinBTM
12-31-2008, 22:12
Geez, you guys are a real riot...
I have always found the Delaware section to be oddly laid out. Especially the beach walk.
Watch it .... :cool:
We have some fine mountains here in Delaware. In fact, some of our trails have climbs of over 300 feet!
Watch it .... :cool:
We have some fine mountains here in Delaware. In fact, some of our trails have climbs of over 300 feet!
Delaware has the finest hostel on the whole trail! It's located in Rehobeth Beach. A great place to relax and regain some strength before you attempt the ford to Cape May.
Delaware has the finest hostel on the whole trail! It's located in Rehobeth Beach. A great place to relax and regain some strength before you attempt the ford to Cape May.
Just remember, the ferry is the OFFICIAL trail route. If you choose the 17-mile ford of the Delaware Bay, you haven't taken the real trail and you can't apply for your patch.
Just remember, the ferry is the OFFICIAL trail route. If you choose the 17-mile ford of the Delaware Bay, you haven't taken the real trail and you can't apply for your patch.
The key is doing it on a low tide. Never try this when the moon is full!!
The part of the AT that went through Rhode Island seemed rather odd.
Granted, the very northwest corner of the state is the very tail-end of the Appalachian foothills, but it did seem to out of the way before hooking back up to the Berkshires.
You must be thinking of another small eastern state. The AT does not go near Rhode Island.
You must be thinking of another small eastern state. The AT does not go near Rhode Island.
Mags and I are the only two who have walked the entire trail. That's because few have hiked the sections in Rhode Island or Delaware.
Slo-go'en
01-01-2009, 14:19
What do you guys think about this? Should the trail be a more logical, and so easier, route of travel? Or should it be kept challenging and interesting by taking the long and difficult way around? And what are, in your mind, the most infamous sections of ridiculous trail?
The AT sometimes seems to follow the path a drunken cow made. In some places the trail has to go around private land or stay on land which otherwise can't be developed. In other places, the trail was moved off of old woods roads to the ridge line to keep in the spirt of following the creast of the Appalachians. This lead to the rule of thumb of trail making which says "don't go around when you can go over".
PA drove me crazy. The trail would be following a nice gravel woods road on the crest of the ridge, then for no apparent reason, detour to a PITA rock pile trail for a mile or so then come back out on the woods road.
Cabin Fever
01-01-2009, 16:25
After doing some trail maintenance, I have heard some of the reasoning why the trails are laid out as such. Some the reasons include: private land, endangered ecosystems (plants, animals, waters), getting off logging roads, getting away from roads because of trouble from locals, river crossings at bridges (Nolichucky @ Erwin is a great example of this), sidehill trail with switchbacks, finding water sources, good places to build shelters, seeing features like falls or views, etc. If you are with the person laying out the trail, it usually makes a lot of sense. However, there will always be sections to question. People always question why TEHCC doesn't have privies. There's good answers. Most of the questions have logical answers.
My most recent one is why AT parallels the Virginia Creeper Trail within 50 yards for significant distances and goes up and over mountains when it could cruise into Damascus along the beautiful creek. I am sure MRATC has fine reasons.
[QUOTE=TrippinBTM;748553]I heard it said (don't remember who said it, or if I read it, what source) that the AT is a white-man's trail... as no self respecting Indian would ever walk such a difficult path in his travels. QUOTE]
“Why, an Indian would die laughing his head off if he saw the Trail. I would have never started this trip if I had known how tough it was, but I couldn’t, and I wouldn’t, quit.”—Grandma Gatewood, 1955, on her first of three thru-hikes.
TrippinBTM
01-01-2009, 19:17
Coulda been Grandma Gatewood, but I now remember I heard it myself from Long Portage, who quoted it pretty much as I wrote it in my first post. Makes sense; the Natives had all the land (no "property rights" in our sense), and to travel, why go all the way up to the mountains when you have all these nice valleys? In the end, our modern highways are mainly where the old Indian paths went, which were where the game trails originally led: the natural path of travel is generally the easiest.
As to the "logical" reasons for weird trail layouts, I agree. There usually is a good reason, probably. But from the hiker's perspective, and one who doesn't know who owns what land, and all the other planning specifics, it's crazy sometimes.
Here's my "favorite" of the windy trails: Humpback Mountain, just south of Waynesboro VA. Ok, not really a very hard climb, but it was horribly hot and humid the day I did it (most of that week, actually) which made it into real work. And then I later heard that it used to be straight! Somehow it got decided to reroute it (pretty recently, too, I heard) and made it wind all over the place, added a mile at least to it. Pretty well pissed me off...
Can't say if it's true or not, but that's the main section that comes to mind for me.
Bare Bear
01-02-2009, 05:09
The Florida Trail ends at Pensacola Beach at Ft Pickens. The last five miles are beach walk. Every Trail I have ever walked had its perculiar routings at times. In Fl there is a palce where if it were laid out stright it would be across a pasture for two miles. Instead they made it wander around to make it nearly four miles. Go figure.
Wow, trippin.. the hayduke trail looks amazing.. thanks for the info.. What a hike that would be.
The Florida Trail ends at Pensacola Beach at Ft Pickens. The last five miles are beach walk. Every Trail I have ever walked had its perculiar routings at times. In Fl there is a palce where if it were laid out stright it would be across a pasture for two miles. Instead they made it wander around to make it nearly four miles. Go figure.
No mystery. Trails are simply neat places to walk. The longer you can make them, the better.
The AT will always be a subject of some criticism by some thru hikers. Thru hikers tend to prefer the easiest and quickest route to the Katahdin or Springer as the case may be.
Trails, however, are laid out by maintaining clubs, whose members are looking for exciting day and weekend hikes. They care nothing about hiking ease -- just hiking challenges.
BTW, those seeking challenges far outnumber thru hikers.
Lone Wolf is right. There is nothing wrong with the trail as it exists.
Well, I am scouting a loop to Phippsburg on the Maine coast. We have a 220 foot mountain with spectacular views of a mile long undeveloped sand beach. Hikers can look east to the pounding surf, and south to an undeveloped salt marsh. It's all part of a 600 acre preserve created by a family of school teachers in order to protect it for all times. It would make a magnificent addition to the AT. Unfortunately, there are 20 towns and 150 miles between Grafton Notch and here.
With luck, global warming may shorten the distance.
Weary
Mags and I are the only two who have walked the entire trail. That's because few have hiked the sections in Rhode Island or Delaware.
Yes. Mowgli and I have the 2400 miler patch. The only two that I know of.
The Delaware and RI section of the AT are sites to behold. The two smallest states have the two biggest stretches of scenery.
It IS out of the way, but all true purists hike this true 2400 miler trail.
TrippinBTM
01-02-2009, 17:03
Trails, however, are laid out by maintaining clubs, whose members are looking for exciting day and weekend hikes. They care nothing about hiking ease -- just hiking challenges.
Lone Wolf is right. There is nothing wrong with the trail as it exists.
First, I never said there's anything wrong, per se, with the Trail as it exists. I have my gripes, it is true, but more than anything I was just "making conversation" by making a thread about this. Thought it might be interesting, to see which sections bothered each person the most. Seems everyone wants to give me crap or post about the AT in Delaware (humorous as I found it).
Second, I had myself thought that this was mainly a divide between thrus and sectioners/weekenders. You hit the nail on the head.
Lastly, I'll say that while walking the spine of the Appalachians is awesome, the Appalachians include mountainsides, as well as valleys; it would have been neat to walk in those more often, for variety. But I understand all the reasons it doesn't go there (private land, conservation, etc).
On, and yeah, it would be pretty cool to be within sight of the sea on the AT at some point. But you can't have everything, I guess.
Watch it .... :cool:
We have some fine mountains here in Delaware. In fact, some of our trails have climbs of over 300 feet!
Yep, and we can pick up the Mason-Dixon trail and follow it all the way to the AT! :sun