View Full Version : New Years resolution we can all live with
johnnybgood
01-01-2009, 22:01
With a new year upon us we often look at ways we can better ourselves.While out walking in a park near where I live a question came to my mind and thought I might post it. I wondered how many WB posters know CPR. Knowing how to perform CPR and emergency first aid is something we all can benefit from. For those that have thru hiked, you know how far a hospital may be from the AT or how long it may take paramedics to get to where you are on the AT, assuming that you can get phone service. In a nutshell,classes are available to anyone wanting to learn CPR or first aid by going to the American Red Cross website at ; www.redcross.org (http://www.redcross.org) and signing up. If you just remember to hike with someone at all times he or she may save your life by knowing CPR. Happy New Years yaw !:sun
The chances of someone receiving CPR in the woods and making it alive to a hospital are almost none. I was an EMT and worked the ER when I was in the ARMY, and I can't remember one case where we administered CPR where the individual made it. And that's with almost immediate Paramedic Response.
That being said, it's not a bad idea to know CPR, and definitely a great idea to know basic first aid.
I heard if you start CPR on someone you're liable for the outcome if the person dies. Doesn't seem right...
tom_alan
01-02-2009, 00:56
I heard if you start CPR on someone you're liable for the outcome if the person dies. Doesn't seem right...
I believe that in the state of Colorado they have what is called the “Good Samaritan Law”. The law protects people that are trying to rescue / save the life of someone in an emergency situation. The state also gives out a reward (Wooden plaque) for anyone that assists in saving the life of others.
My brother and his wife are both trained Ski Patrollers. On their way to the ski area one morning they watched a car slide out of control down the side of a mountain and roll over. They both had there med kits that they carry on the mountain with them. They removed the two occupants and stabilized them until medics got there. The car did catch on fire before the medics arrived. They each received a plaque from the Governor of the state of Colorado at that time.
HikerRanky
01-02-2009, 01:10
The chances of someone receiving CPR in the woods and making it alive to a hospital are almost none. I was an EMT and worked the ER when I was in the ARMY, and I can't remember one case where we administered CPR where the individual made it. And that's with almost immediate Paramedic Response.
That being said, it's not a bad idea to know CPR, and definitely a great idea to know basic first aid.
While the statistics do support the first item, I can give you an example of where it did work.
I also teach CPR/First aid, and scuba diving, and was getting ready to start an open water training session when someone yelled for help. The victim was not breathing and did not have a heart beat.
The owner of the location activated the EMS, I begin CPR, and continued it for about 10 minutes. A helicopter arrived at the location, and they administered shocks with a defib unit. Person lived.
I heard if you start CPR on someone you're liable for the outcome if the person dies. Doesn't seem right...
It depends on the state you are in.... While most states have a Good Samaritan law, you should check for your specific state. Here in Tennessee, no one has been held liable for the outcome. Technically, the state considers the person to be dead since they are not responding to stimuli....
Randy
Bare Bear
01-02-2009, 05:03
Most states have the model "Good Samaritan" Law which protects you from anything except malicious acts basically. Every group I know now requires CPR and First Aid as a requisite of being a member: Sierra Club Outings Leader, Fla Trail Sawyer, etc.
Randy,
Good to hear CPR saved someone's life. Wish I would have seen it happen at least once.
Good Samaritans are no longer immune to being sued for heroic acts of kindness. At least not in California!
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/medicine/la-me-good-samaritan19-2008dec19,0,6547898.story
Worldwide
01-02-2009, 10:34
CPR is a pretty handy skill, but like most skills it is perishable. If you don't use it or practice it you lose it. I was trained by the Army to perform CPR and once in high school. Never needed it until I visited my parents one day dad was asleep and mom was unconcious at the foot of the stairs.. she had suffered a stroke and a heart attack. Her heart wasn't beating and she wasn't breathing on her own. I was able to fumble through CPR long enough for the ambulance to arrive. She was DOA when they arrived she was defibbed and brought back to life. I know without their responding my fumbling would have saved her, but they said it did buy her some time. In fact it bought her close to 17 years with their help. It is a worthwhile skillset to have but without the ambulance showing up it probably wouldn't have done squat.
Now put yourself on the AT, and this isn't that remote of a trail. How long do you think you think it takes to get help? Way longer than you will be able to sustain CPR I would guess, but I honestly don't know.
Also most injuries and casualties in the outdoors are from falls ( I believe that is still the leader may have changed )
Worldwide
01-02-2009, 10:36
I know without their responding my fumbling would have saved her, but they said it did buy her some time.
I meant my fumbling wouldn't have saved her
Lone Wolf
01-02-2009, 10:44
my rescue squad just acquired one of these http://www.zoll.com/product.aspx?id=84 not good for the trail but a cool device
garlic08
01-02-2009, 11:26
I agree that CPR on a remote trail is ineffective, but hey, it may help the survivors feel better that they were at least able to try something.
CPR training is an excellent thing to have, mainly, I think, for rendering immediate aid to family. The American Heart Association training also includes training for foreign body airway obstruction, AEDs (automatic external defibrillators), and generally helps you to think in an organized, logical fashion during a horrible event. What can be simpler than "ABCD" (airway, breathing, circulation, defibrillator)?
"Traditional" CPR rarely works. AEDs are really changing the statistics for witnessed cardiac events. So is the new protocol my rescue squad is using, of two minutes of uninterrupted compressions before arrival of the AED.
Great idea for a NY resolution!
HikerRanky
01-02-2009, 12:40
CPR is a pretty handy skill, but like most skills it is perishable. If you don't use it or practice it you lose it.
This is very true, and that is why there are refresher courses offered.... While the procedure may not change much, it at least gets people into the mindset of practicing it....
I was trained by the Army to perform CPR and once in high school. Never needed it until I visited my parents one day dad was asleep and mom was unconcious at the foot of the stairs.. she had suffered a stroke and a heart attack.Not a good combination, stroke AND a heart attack.
Her heart wasn't beating and she wasn't breathing on her own. I was able to fumble through CPR long enough for the ambulance to arrive. She was DOA when they arrived she was defibbed and brought back to life. I know without their responding my fumbling would have saved her, but they said it did buy her some time. In fact it bought her close to 17 years with their help. It is a worthwhile skillset to have but without the ambulance showing up it probably wouldn't have done squat. Glad to hear that she made it thru that episode.... And yes, CPR does NOT restart the heart beating.... It moves the blood thru the circulatory system, and gives oxygen to the cells... Only an AED or a regular defib unit can restart the heart.
Now put yourself on the AT, and this isn't that remote of a trail. How long do you think you think it takes to get help? Way longer than you will be able to sustain CPR I would guess, but I honestly don't know.Well, if you have the heart attack in Damascus, you would be in LW's excellent hands or one of his colleagues..... However, having an attack in Mahoosuc Notch or Arm may be a very bad time to have that as well.... Just like in real estate, it's all about location, location, location.
Also most injuries and casualties in the outdoors are from falls ( I believe that is still the leader may have changed )I believe that is correct.
Randy
Plodderman
01-02-2009, 12:59
Learned CPR in the Army and later with the Red Cross. Handy skill to possess.
Lose weight, and get helathier but that has been the same for 20 years.
The chances of someone receiving CPR in the woods and making it alive to a hospital are almost none. I was an EMT and worked the ER when I was in the ARMY, and I can't remember one case where we administered CPR where the individual made it. And that's with almost immediate Paramedic Response.
That being said, it's not a bad idea to know CPR, and definitely a great idea to know basic first aid.
I also recently learned that most people don't survive after they've received CPR in the field. And I also agree that it's still a good idea to know, along with basic first aid.
I'll put in a plug for knowing the Heimlich maneuver. Easy to learn. I've used this once in a choking situation. I was terrified in the moment, but thankfully, we had immediate happy results.
Blissful
01-02-2009, 15:51
Funny you mentioned this as I reminded my hubby today he needs to complete his CPR course as a scoutmaster.
johnnybgood
01-02-2009, 19:17
Sly, I believe every state has a Good Samaritan Law + D.C., but of course each state has its own version. I think the states want to encourage ordinary citizens to give emergency assistance especially in life and death circumstances. That being said there are laws within certain states that stipulate that the rescuer is not protected by the Good Samartian Law if assistance is seen in a court of law as being reckless or grossly negligent. I hope that helps a little in that doing something is generally seen as a postive.
Bare Bear
01-03-2009, 02:24
I worked a train versus RV wreck and gave CPR for 45 minutes before relief. The FD was able to revive the victim several times but eventually was DOA but I had a few saves and a few died anyway. You do what you can for as long as you can. Many times I saw FD doing CPR on one you could tell was gone but it made the family feel better that every effort was made.
tom_alan
01-03-2009, 02:46
Through a turn of events I was found in my apartment not breathing and unresponsive. The medics started CPR, ventilated me and rushed me three minutes to the nearest hospital. I had full brain activity so they kept it going for three days when I finally came back. There were a lot of people praying for me during that time. They were talking of pulling the plug shortly before I came back. God has a plan for me!
Real glad they didn’t pull that plug! I have a real guardian angle out there! A month later I put a motorcycle up against a guardrail at 65 mph and was standing before the bike stopped moving. Walked away without a scratch ~ bike was a total loss. Yep, someone is watching out for me!
Funny you mentioned this as I reminded my hubby today he needs to complete his CPR course as a scoutmaster.
yes, good reminder, we are overdue to get re-certified
I'll put in a plug for knowing the Heimlich maneuver. Easy to learn. I've used this once in a choking situation. I was terrified in the moment, but thankfully, we had immediate happy results.
People should also learn how to "Self Heimlich." Doing a belly smacker on your fist sounds painful, but would beat the alternative.