Groups of kids on the Trail

[psuruns10]

I am going to be leading a group of 10 kids from an outdoor school for troubled youth on the trail. I am open to suggestions on how to be as unnoticed as possible.

We will not be staying at any shelters.

[TedB]

The fact that you are posting this question suggests your group will be one of the better ones.

One suggestion is to show them how to treat a water source with respect. Approaching a spring from uphill, stirring up the mud and dirt, and making it look like a pig pen is what needs to be avoided. I ran into this a few hours after it happened, and caught up with the likely suspects the next morning.

[Rain Man]

I am going to be leading a group of 10 kids from an outdoor school for troubled youth on the trail. I am open to suggestions on how to be as unnoticed as possible.

We will not be staying at any shelters.

More power to you! And I apologize for the title I put on this reply, but I think it's one you'll need to get used to. Also, I think it's something you need to be upfront about with hikers you meet.

I met such a group (I suspect) on an August section in Georgia. I chatted with them for a bit, but felt there was something they weren't telling me. Some instinct raised my "awareness" and caution. Afterwards I thought they were a "troubled youth" group and weren't up front with me about it NOR did they have a good cover story, so they tried to finesse it. Since I asked questions, I guess I put them on the spot.

Frankly, I believe "honesty is the best policy." I was more "suspicious" of them for what I perceived as dishonesty than for them being "Hoods in the Woods."

Also, they seemed poorly equipped. Not necessarily under-equipped, though. Then last week my daughter (who is hiking the AT right now) stayed at a full shelter on a booming thunderstorm night. She said a "Hoods in the Woods" group was there at (not in) the shelter and each of them seemed to have a small (insufficient) tarp of cut-up plastic without sufficient experience (or equipment) to set them up properly.

She thinks they all got soaked.

So, be prepared. Last year a youth died on the trail because a leader was not experienced or equipped or willing to accept help, apparently. So, be prepared.

Finally, having said the above, I think it's a GREAT THING that you are doing and you are to be commended, and it's a wonderful thing for these kids and will do them a ton of good, whether they have all the right gear and whether they get a little wet and dirty and cold and hungry or not. God bless you.
:clap
Rain Man

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[psuruns10]

We do use tarps to sleep out under. These kids are equiped with good sleeping bags...heavey but good.

As far as imforming the trail that we are "hoods in the woods"...if you ask any kid in my group they will gladly state that they are at the Discovery School because of choices they made earlier in life and they are learing to deal with their emotions here.

we dont around stating that we are troubled youth...but we wont beat around the bush either

[TJ aka Teej]

I am open to suggestions on how to be as unnoticed as possible.

Unnoticed while your hiking, or after you're gone? :D
10 is a large group, with what, 3 or 4 adults along too?
My group has two boys and girl, now ages 14, 11, and 10. What worked for me was to take them places I know well, with interesting features, varied terrain, and tentsites well off the trail. I suggest you go for a thoughtful hike or two without your group. With leave-no-trace and stealth camping in mind, picture them taking breaks or lunching here or there, exploring that hill or this stream. Try to pick out places to tarp ahead of time, and remember you'll need to split up into smaller groups to minimize impact. Clean up a fire ring or two, pack out other people's litter - my kids have become fanatics about doing that! When my kids were younger, I'd pick out two-night campsites or plan a really short day ahead of time. A day of sleeping late, and exploring and climbing without packs is a great way to break up the 'work' of a backpacking trip!
Thanks for being so involved with those kids!

[art to linda]

I worked with kids with problems for 12 years(ages 7-18), never had the nerve to take them backpacking as I couldn't get enough adult helpers to make it work.....did take them camping,tubing and anything else I could think of that would get them outdoors. Their response was so great! So many of them have never had a chance to see what their world is like outside of the city/town. Good Luck to you, have a great hike :clap

[chris]

The best way to make friends would be to load up the kids with a lot of beer (buy cases, encase in Christmas wrapping paper so they won't know what it is) and snacks. Maybe an additional 30 lbs per kid. Then, have them drop off the packages to various shelters as they move. Not only will everyone love your group, but the kids will be so tired that they will go to sleep right away and not keep up hikers who crash at 8.

On a more serious note, I there isn't much that you can do beyond simple things. For example, not staying in shelters. I'd try not to camp at shelters either, as you might not want the kids exposed to a lot of drinking and smoking. When you take a break, don't do so in the middle of the trail. By 10 pm, make sure the kids are quiet.

On a side note, make sure everyone drinks plenty of water and eats enough. I believe some young girl from a similar type of group died last summer on the AT from a combination of factors. There is a thread somewhere on the site about it.

[bobgessner57]

I second TJ's post about doing a recon trip if at all possible. That really helps. I assume these youth have little or no backpacking experience. In my dealings with novice backpackers I have found that I have to ride them hard about drinking enough water. Many times I have had to get them to show me that their bottles are getting used at a rate I consider appropriate. When I don't do that it often seems that stomach aches, cramps, or other problems start popping up and bog the group down. Perhaps a water buddy system would work.

Fire- if they haven't been around fire many will act like 6 year olds, poking it constantly, swinging sticks, etc. The older ones get over it quick.

Poop-'nuf said.

Have a good trip. Ten will be tough. If you have other leaders can you split into 2 groups?

[Jaybird]

I am going to be leading a group of 10 kids from an outdoor school for troubled youth on the trail. I am open to suggestions on how to be as unnoticed as possible.We will not be staying at any shelters.


psruns10

i second all the above recommendations. Stay away from shelters....hopefully you have plenty of help with these "troubled youth".
(a few more adults for supervision).

plenty of water, food, gorp, & take as many "breaks" as you/they need.
if it's their first trail experience...you dont wanna kill them with a killer hike.

Good Luck.

[Blue Jay]

We do use tarps to sleep out under. These kids are equiped with good sleeping bags...heavey but good.

As far as imforming the trail that we are "hoods in the woods"...if you ask any kid in my group they will gladly state that they are at the Discovery School because of choices they made earlier in life and they are learing to deal with their emotions here.

we dont around stating that we are troubled youth...but we wont beat around the bush either

I for one are very glad to see you out there. Thankyouthankyouthankyou. Getting kids away from the Money is God World is a great way to show them there are other less cruel ways to live. You are truly someone who is making things better for everyone. By the way shelters are for everyone, if someone gets cold use a shelter.

[Peaks]

I am going to be leading a group of 10 kids from an outdoor school for troubled youth on the trail. I am open to suggestions on how to be as unnoticed as possible.

We will not be staying at any shelters.

If you follow the Leave No Trace principals, then you should have no problems.

Just make sure the group is very considerate of others. Like others have posted, don't monopolize sheltes, respect water sources, keep the noice down, etc.

[Dances with Mice]

Couple years ago I advised a Venturing unit - part of the BSA that used to be called Exploring. Not problem kids by any measure - most were Eagle scouts or nearly at that rank. But they hadn't done much serious backpacking - as Scouts they'd backpack into a campsite that they'd use as their weekend base. We started longer distance backpacking trips on the Georgia AT and here's my hard-won advise - keep'em hydrated!

Kids aren't used to drinking the quantities of water they need when backpacking. You need to force the issue and enforce a quantity - one liter of water per hour of walking isn't too much but they won't drink that much if they're not told. And the effects of dehydration are subtle - I'm not talking about heat stroke or heat exhaustion, just simple mild dehydration: The kids will first get irritable. Little problems quickly become big problems. Stuff that might just simmer comes to a full boil. Push leads to shove and sometimes something more than pushing and shoving, even among normally well-behaved, well adjusted, older and experienced Scouts that had known each other for years. Along with irritation will be lethargy - "I can't go no further". They quit doing the little things they should be doing, things that they knew needed to be done, I could give specific examples but it's easier to say they developed an "I don't give a damn" attitude about everything that couldn't be overcome by counseling.

After a few changes things smoothed out - the kids were told to NEVER walk past a water source. We had a break every 30 minutes and everyone had to finish off a half liter of water if they hadn't already. This led to smart-ass in-jokes - stopping to take a break at a stream 50 yards past the one they'd just stopped at for a major break, laying around with water bottles propped in their mouths or pretending that their bottles were IV's. I guess you had to have been there to appreciate the humor. But once I started "force feeding" them water all of our problems disappeared. OK, MOST of our problems disappeared, we're talking about teen boys here. But the problems they had were more easily handled. The boys had enough energy to solve their own problems.

Some of the boys weren't drinking enough because they didn't like the iodine tables I preferred. Using a filter delivered water without floaties and better acceptance. The filter was one investment that paid off well.

I began to believe - and I still believe - that there's very few problems I used to call "personality conflicts" among the kids that couldn't be solved with a liter of water for everyone involved and an hour's wait.

So that's my 0.02. Keep your group's morale up and any interactions with other hikers will all be positive.

To keep your group's morale up, have a drink on me.

[ziffy]

I did a three day hike last summer with kids from a boys overnight camp in northern PA. Since we wouldn't be out that long we asked the thru hikers for some of their trash to pack out. It went over well. We kept up a good pace and were friendly with the other hikers but not loud and clamoring. Just a quick personal lesson learned from leading trips like that all summer...make sure that each kid had the right footwear. I was out on another trip when the one I took out was leaving and I didn't realize that one of the boys had only these light mid-hiker/sneaker things and it turns out he'd had ankle surgery three months prior. We had to cut the hike short on his account because he didn't wear supportive enough shoes. Moral: be attentive to every detail, footwear and medical histories included.

[Ramble~On]

I agree with all of the above...umm, the part about the beer would be something. Anyway, I ran into a group of "Hoods in the Woods" in 1996.
In fact..I ran into the same group twice...they had shuttle support and moved up the trail.

I THANK YOU for you decision to not use the shelters.
The group we encountered "took over" the entire shelter and picnic table.
Their (under trained, under staffed) 1 Adult(?) Leader made our time spent that evening anything but what the AT Shelter System is meant to be.

The next time we ran into them at a shelter we hiked on.

That one group and one adult(?) do not ruin my impression of that program or any similar program. I agree with all of the above entries.
I've lead similar groups. It was a great experience for me and I can honestly say the kids liked it too. Carrying a backpack up and down mountains, camping and cooking in the woods teaches kids a whole lot more than meets the eye.

[Mini-Mosey]

The only thing I would add to the excellent advice already given is make sure an adult leader stays at the very end of the group so as to monitor the "stragglers". I say this because when I was out on my last trip, I encountered what I believe may have been such a group, and two stragglers were apparently strewing trash along the trail, plus I passed them once by the side of the trail setting fire to a small pile of leaves!!