View Full Version : question for the winter hiking experts about snowshoes
i have been considering getting a pair of MSR lightening snowshoes. I like the fact that they are metal with teeth all around and have very flexible bindings. Also most reviews I have read seem to be good.
My question is do I really need the 30 inch bindings or could I get buy on 25? I weigh over 250 lbs before my gear. But here in NH we rarely get feet of powder.. usually more dense and crusty and often packed down from other hikers.
Also, Any one have any experience with these snowshoes? anything negative to say about them other than the high price? Any other models to recommend that would be just as good for winter hiking in the White Mountains? Also, while I want to go up mountains, I am still a novice winter hiker and don't tackle the real serious stuff (like the Presies or Franconia Ridge).
All input appreciated.
Thanks,
David
well since I can't edit.. here is a clarification post.
Do I really need the 30 inch bindings? meant to refer to snowshoes not bindings.
TunnelvisionGAME09
01-09-2009, 14:39
I thoroughly enjoy my lightnings. I have used them to trek into camp with all my gear, but then set up camp and play around free of the weight. I can't say what length you would want, I would check with someone at an EMS or something - they would have more knowledge of length requirements in regards to what your pack weight would be. If you're planning on any steep ascents, the televator is a great asset!
I can't think of any negatives. When looking at price, I got mine at an LL Bean outlet for half the price, so that might be a place to look now that Christmas returns are coming in.
Are these plastic like MSR's other snowshoes? If they are, they will be very noisy. That's the main reason I've never considered MSR's.
Here's my experience: in powder, it won't matter whether you have 25" or 30" shoes, you will sink. I think old fashioned ash and rawhide shoes work far better in powder than modern shoes.
On a trail (i.e. not virgin snow), flotation doesn't much matter, you're getting a traction machine.
My only caveat: I'm only 190#, you're an extra 60#, and I don't have experience with that.
If you can try them out, that's best, but I'd be inclined to go with the 25" shoes. I'd love a pair of those MSR's, but not this year.
If you weight over 250 lbs w/o gear, then conservatively you'll probably weigh 280+ w/ gear? (Probably closer to 300?)
Most 8x25 hold up to 200 lbs AT THE MOST. The, MSRs, being even lighter snowshoes, are probably rated at ~180lbs.
If you were on the cusp, I'd say go with the smaller shoes. But you are almost 100 lbs over the max weight load.
Yes, in packed snow, you can probably use almost anything (maybe, over 100 lbs max makes me very cautious). In powder, you'll want the larger ones.
I must politely disagree that it does not matter what kind of shoes you have in powder and you'll sink anyway. Yes, there is always some kind of sinking, but w/o shoes (or skis) you'll sink even more!
Here's a photo from a quick moonlit walk I took on a hut trip sans skis on the very path we skied on:
http://www.pmags.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=15065&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=f78a3e9fade375390b8197797125e37a
Shoes make a difference...even in powder. :) Notice the snowshoe tracks next to me...they did not sink. ;)
Slo-go'en
01-09-2009, 16:21
30" is a bit long for NH trails. Those are more suited to big, open snow fields out west. I get by with 21" which gives better freedom of movement around stuff. For trails which are somewhat packed or snow depth isn't too deep, these are fine. Just enough support to keep from sinking in too far and give traction. BTW, these are the cheap "Yukon" brand from Wal-Mart. 25" would likely be a good size for you.
Another problem with long snow shoes is if you do get into deep snow, they can be hard to pull back up with all the snow on top of them.
I have a pair of classic ash and rawhide shoes which are 35" long and are definately too long. They also have the neoprene bindings which my boots don't like to stay in. Was forever falling out of them. However, I did use them nearly every day when I was winter caretaker for Gray Knob back in the winter of '86/87, which was a very good snow year. Had to put them on just to beat a path to the outhouse nearly every morning from Jan 1st until I left at the end of March.
30" is a bit long for NH trails.
I am just concerned about the almost 300 lbs of person and gear, though. Yeah, long snowshoes are a pain...but so is sinking into snow. :eek:
Here's a case where RENTING snowshoes comes in handy. :) Try a few different types, see what works. You've had several different opinions. We are all correct..you just have to see what is correct for YOU. Renting is a relatively painless way to try out different types.
Slo-go'en
01-09-2009, 16:53
I am just concerned about the almost 300 lbs of person and gear, though. Yeah, long snowshoes are a pain...but so is sinking into snow. :eek:
Yeah, at 300 lb's the 21"ers would be pretty marginal for NHDave. But NH trails are somewhat unique, with typically dense, crusty snow, narrow trails, steep in places and downed trees to go around. If one sticks to the more popular and well trodden winter trails, you just need something to give your feet a wider base and traction. Above tree line where the snow is wind packed, crampons are more suitable.
We just got some freash snow the other day and there looks to be enough base now to cover up all the rocks and stuff, so think I'll go out and do some shoeing myself tomorrow:)
Toolshed
01-09-2009, 20:05
250+ you will need the 30's. In a perfect world, you would have 25's to take on packed trails and 30's for off trail. Unless you want to get 2 pair, get the 30's. After years of shoeing in the Daks with my 30" Sherpas with the Tucker Binding, I never had a situation where I wished that I did not have 30's, except for falling into Spruce Traps. I have also worn 36s and they are too long for the Daks, unless you are Off Trail.
I have taken my wife's 25s in Spring with packed trails and can move a bit faster, but for 1 pair, trust me. you want 30's.
As for the Lightnings, look closely - There are 2 rivets on each side of the binding, where the front binding is attached to the frame. Unless they changed their design, you will see how the frame is attached to the binding and this is the weakest point on these shoes (see Below). I know a few who called quits on them after they failed in the field during long bouts of side sloping. Too much stress on that rivet.
I'll look and see if they updated their design.
Since 2000, I have tried to replace my 30 year old Sherpas with MSR Denalis (to loud), Tubbs (Binding kept falling off), Redfeathers (Bindings caused my packboot insulation to pinch leaving cold feet) and have finally switch to Atlas 12 series and think highly enough o them to have recently sold my old Sherpas on Ebay.
OK I found an image - Look at the strip of metal under the front part of binding that curves into the frame and is held with 2 rivets (Very similar to the rear crosspiece, except the front gets more stress.
http://www.orssnowshoesdirect.com/ors-ss-images/msr_products/msr-lightning-snowshoes-lg.jpgat
Mags.. thanks for that photo. That's classic! Great example why you really want snow shoes in the Whites..especially with any elevation!!
Toolshed.. thanks as well. You give good reason to go for 30's.
I have tried so far several different snow shoes over the years.. none fully satisfactory. The bindings are my biggest nemisous. I need one that I can easily get in and out of with gloves on! MSR seems to have solved this problem.
I have currently the MSR Denali Ascents. Great binding but the shoes being mostly plastic give me feeling they aren't rugged enough. I have had them now several years and they are pretty well warn down and rusted. I am not taking them into remote areas!
I think I am going to go for the MSR Lightening 30 inch size. Now I just have to some how syke myself up to cough up almost 300 bucks!! I hesitate. The economy is not great and nor are my finances. The money is in the bank but.... !!!!
Any one know if EMS rents out this particular model? Would be wise to rent first I believe.
David
Any one know if EMS rents out this particular model? Would be wise to rent first I believe.
David
I think it depends upon the individual store? I'd try calling your local EMS and asking. I did not realize that the snowshoes were that $$$. I can see why you are saying "OUCH". :o
i have been considering getting a pair of MSR lightening snowshoes. I like the fact that they are metal with teeth all around and have very flexible bindings. Also most reviews I have read seem to be good.
My question is do I really need the 30 inch bindings or could I get buy on 25? I weigh over 250 lbs before my gear. But here in NH we rarely get feet of powder.. usually more dense and crusty and often packed down from other hikers.
Also, Any one have any experience with these snowshoes? anything negative to say about them other than the high price? Any other models to recommend that would be just as good for winter hiking in the White Mountains? Also, while I want to go up mountains, I am still a novice winter hiker and don't tackle the real serious stuff (like the Presies or Franconia Ridge).
All input appreciated.
Thanks,
David
I can't help. Ive been hiking in winter for years, mostly with with old wood and raw hide shoes -- mostly bought at yard sales. Just keep in mind that all that is new, is not necessarily better.
Weary
take-a-knee
01-10-2009, 10:40
Check and see if the Sportsman's Guide has those army surplus magnesium shoes, we used to fight over those in the infantry in Alaska. If they were available new you couldn't afford them but SG was selling them cheap a while back. As for snowshoe length, that really isn't a problem, just learn to do a kick turn like you do on skiis.
StubbleJumper
01-10-2009, 23:44
I have a pair of MSR Denali snowshoes that I quite like. You can put on 4" tails or 8" tails depending on trail conditions. In really loose powder you'll still sink, but they are very adaptable to conditions.
I am near 300 pounds with all my gear. I use Atlas 10/35s...I love them,they are big,but it sure does feel nice when I stay on top of the snow. Sucks when you sink in too deep.
Mr. Clean
01-11-2009, 06:01
I'd also vote for the 30's. The 25's will be fine if you only stayed on packed trails, but if you leave trail to take a leak or something, you'd be sorry. I'm 240 lbs, and I have a pair of 33's and 25's, both atlas, and I usually take the 33's for the simple reason of off-trail walking.
If you go hiking in the Whites, then you will see people wearing very small snowshoes all the time. With packed trails, its not uncommon to see people wearing these when they could just as easily be wearing thier boots alone. Sometimes it seams they are being worn for fashion.
Given how many people really use them, I am thinking you could get by with the smaller pair. That said, I would probably go up to the 30". That size is not so big as to be problematic attaching to a pack (or in my case a daypack along with a ridgerest). Snow can fall fast, and not all trails will be packed.
FWIW, I am almost your size and have both 30" and 36" Tubbs. The charts said I needed the larger ones, but thay seem to be overkill on trails where I end up. They are nice for frolliking around, though. And when I lend out the 30" they are not as awkward as they look. If I carried a heavy winter pack, I am not so sure that I wouldn't prefer the 36".
The real downside to having larger snow shoes (I think) if when you are at a snowless trailhead in the shoulder seasons and debating withyourself on whether to take them. Larger shoes are more likely to stay in the car, which is a choice you can regret at 4,000 feet.
As for the particular model, I can't add much there. I would make sure that you take a good look at the bindings, however. Mine are OK, but don't allow me to wear all my boots. I have the Sorrel-Type boots that would be great for some cold trips, but need to leave them behind.
Next time, I would take ALL my winter footwear to the store and try them in the snowshoes before buying any. I was told that because mine hinge (leaving the tail to flop downwhen you raise your foot) they would be difficult with blowdowns and such, but that turned out to be a non-issue. Some people consider that a factor, however.
Toolshed
01-11-2009, 11:28
If you go hiking in the Whites, then you will see people wearing very small snowshoes all the time. With packed trails, its not uncommon to see people wearing these when they could just as easily be wearing thier boots alone. Sometimes it seams they are being worn for fashion.
Given how many people really use them, I am thinking you could get by with the smaller pair. That said, I would probably go up to the 30". That size is not so big as to be problematic attaching to a pack (or in my case a daypack along with a ridgerest). Snow can fall fast, and not all trails will be packed.
FWIW, I am almost your size and have both 30" and 36" Tubbs. The charts said I needed the larger ones, but thay seem to be overkill on trails where I end up. They are nice for frolliking around, though. And when I lend out the 30" they are not as awkward as they look. If I carried a heavy winter pack, I am not so sure that I wouldn't prefer the 36".
The real downside to having larger snow shoes (I think) if when you are at a snowless trailhead in the shoulder seasons and debating withyourself on whether to take them. Larger shoes are more likely to stay in the car, which is a choice you can regret at 4,000 feet.
As for the particular model, I can't add much there. I would make sure that you take a good look at the bindings, however. Mine are OK, but don't allow me to wear all my boots. I have the Sorrel-Type boots that would be great for some cold trips, but need to leave them behind.
Next time, I would take ALL my winter footwear to the store and try them in the snowshoes before buying any. I was told that because mine hinge (leaving the tail to flop downwhen you raise your foot) they would be difficult with blowdowns and such, but that turned out to be a non-issue. Some people consider that a factor, however.
Very Well Put. Nice piece about ALL winter footgear. I found some bindings worked well on my PacBoots, but were horrible on my plastic double boots.
Now if only there was one boot that could be worn for snowshoeing, BC skiing and Tele-Skiing and cramp-on capabilities, without having to spring for a Randonee AT setup. :-?
i have been considering getting a pair of MSR lightening snowshoes. I like the fact that they are metal with teeth all around and have very flexible bindings. Also most reviews I have read seem to be good.
My question is do I really need the 30 inch bindings or could I get buy on 25? I weigh over 250 lbs before my gear. But here in NH we rarely get feet of powder.. usually more dense and crusty and often packed down from other hikers.
Also, Any one have any experience with these snowshoes? anything negative to say about them other than the high price? Any other models to recommend that would be just as good for winter hiking in the White Mountains? Also, while I want to go up mountains, I am still a novice winter hiker and don't tackle the real serious stuff (like the Presies or Franconia Ridge).
All input appreciated.
Thanks,
David
I haven't kept count, but I've probably walked a thousand miles on snowshoes over the years. All were on wood framed snowshoes with homemade crampons. I continue to pick up "new" pairs occasionally at yard sales and auctions for $40- $50 dollars.
Traditional snowshoes came in a variety of shapes. Oval "bearpaws" for breaking new trails through brush. Long and narrow shoes for breaking new trails over open country. And everything in between.
Sorry for the digression. Getting back to your question. I'd look around for a used pair. Use them to go on a few hikes. Look at what others are using. Chat with them about what they like or dislike about their snowshoes. You need more than forum chitchat before buying an expensive, high end pair of snowshoes -- which incidentally seem to increase in weight with price -- at least the ones I dream over in the stores do.
BTW the New Hampshire Chapter, AMC, like the Maine Chapter, runs hikes virtually every weekend. They are a great way to learn winter hiking.
And, oh yeah, send $10 bucks to White Blaze so you can edit your posts.
Weary