View Full Version : windshirt vs windbreaker
What is so special about the windshirt as compared to a simple hooded nylon parka??
eg.
http://www.worldclassgear.com/marmot_driclime_windshirt.asp
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014FLJKU/ref=nosim/?tag=shopzilla_rev_5-20&linkCode=asn
I'm a budget hiker and hate to blow money for a brand name.
But, I fought the trend in bicycling for years, starting to ride in cut offs and tennies before finally relenting to get lined riding shorts and clipless shoes and a real cycling jersey.
My hiking hero, Stumpknocker, wears one. He seems to configure gear systems that minimize weight and maximize function, but he does nothing but hike, while I hike two or three weeks a year.
There's gotta be a balance in here somewhere.
Thanks for any opinions you might have.
Grinder
as far as i know, a windshirt is just another way of saying wind breaker. kinda marketing. although the better windshirts (marmot's driclime for example) will be more breathable, lighter, and most likely more water resistant, than a no frills brand. i personally don't use one, adn just use my rain jacket as a wind break. but some guys LOVE them. if you're a budget hiker i don't think you'll go wrong w/ a cheap one.
take-a-knee
01-10-2009, 10:21
A windshirt shines when it isn't cold/windy enought to hike wearing insulation but it is too cold to just hike in a LS tee shirt. If you wear goretex under those conditions, you'll likely get lathered up with sweat, so basically, you need a windshirt in cold windy conditions 'cause your rainjacket won't breathe well enough. Marmot has one that weighs 3 ounces, my Golite weighs six IIRC.
I also keep it simple, and for a wind layer I just pickup the lightest untreated nylon I can find, unlined, with or without a hood. I picked up two that I found at LL Beans factory outlet in Bangor, but haven't seen any since. I wear it or carry it every day. One is a large, which I got for $20, and the other is a XXL which is big enough for all my winter layers, and was further reduced to $20. Neither have a hood, and they have just one side pocket where I would have prefered a pouch, but they are simple half-zip and have a effective draw string and they both weight under 4oz. They are breathable enough, and windproof enough, and light enough to not hold much water or ice, and they don't try to be anything they are not. Its not for rain, but is enough for rain in summer, though not at altitude. Cheap light nylon works. If you wear a wool sweater as your main layer its easier to find cheap light wind shells and rain shells that work.
garlic08
01-10-2009, 10:26
I agree, you don't need a name-brand, no way, even though I do LOVE mine. I've probably saved 6 or 8 oz and some pack room with it, but I also wear the Driclime all the time now, on the bike, skiing, etc. It replaced my fleece.
I'm sure you remember when fleece first came out. I resisted that for a decade or so, finally broke down and got one on sale, and gradually got rid of all my wool. The same thing is happening now. I haven't seen my fleece in a year or so.
The think about a long hike is you still have to carry all your clothing, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to find the lightest system for fair weather. What people need is a reasonably light total clothing system , with enough flexibility and comfort for all conditions. I generally hike in my wool sweater and shorts, add a skin layer under if its a colder day than normal, put the wind layer on only when I stop or am walking slowly in cold wind, and save the rain layer for heavy rain. That way the sweater stays on, and all the other layers are super light and packable. In colder climates same idea but thicker layers, plus an extra layer. So I don't get the idea of the windshirt, the way its described. Better to keep layers separate, and to optimize your total system weight, not the weight of clothes normally worn.
the rest of the story is that I just bought a tyvek windbreaker (called "Sheddable Shell" from MPE) for @21.95 delivered.
It weighs an honest 3 OZ and scrunches up to about twice the size of a bandana.
I think I'll stop there for this year.
My layers will be:
1, poly T shirt,
2. Army EWS poly top
3.the tyvek jacket and
4.a dri ducks rain suit.
Thanks
Grinder/Tom
Update on the Tyvek jacket.
Sorry folks, but it wasn't up to the job.
As far as weather protection, it was fine, but the wearability factor was unsatisfactory.
the areas under the pack straps developed holes from putting on and removing the pack.
No great surprise, I suppose. $11 is not $100 is it??
take-a-knee
04-23-2009, 11:13
I agree, you don't need a name-brand, no way, even though I do LOVE mine. I've probably saved 6 or 8 oz and some pack room with it, but I also wear the Driclime all the time now, on the bike, skiing, etc. It replaced my fleece.
I'm sure you remember when fleece first came out. I resisted that for a decade or so, finally broke down and got one on sale, and gradually got rid of all my wool. The same thing is happening now. I haven't seen my fleece in a year or so.
I've come to view fleece as a really cold-weather item, as in cold enough you can carry a pack and wear it all day and almost never take it off. I have little use for it as a southeastern hiker.
Spirit Walker
04-23-2009, 11:36
The Marmot windshirt is lined with a light layer of fleece. It makes it a good intermediate layer - lighter than fleece or a micropuff type jacket, but heavier than a plain windshirt. I generally wear mine if I'm out hiking in temps under 40 degrees or at camp with my micropuff when it's really cold. (My micropuff isn't as warm as I need if it's under 30.) In desert or AT hiking, it would probably be fine as your warm layer during the summer, in lieu of fleece or micropuff, or as an additional layer if you start early (or SOBO end late), along with your warm jacket.
I've tried wearing a regular light nylon windshirt and didn't feel like it did much good. If it's cold and windy, my rain jacket works fine. If it's warm and windy, I don't bother with a jacket. I wear my Marmot only when it's really cold.
Jayboflavin04
04-23-2009, 12:03
I have a Outdoor research windshirt that I bought used here on WB. It weighs 3-5oz and is nice on those windy cool spring days. I would like to treat it with some revivex on add a little more water repellancy.
This is a really good topic, one I am puzzled over as well. I simply don't understand the need for a wind-layer at all. I have a DriDucks parka for my rain shell and don't understand why it can't double as a wind layer. If the temp is cool enough that a wind-shell has to be worn, then I'm guessing that you aren't going to build up too much sweat by wearing a water-resistant layer. Is this a bad assumption? (note: I recently bought a DriDucks parka with the intent that it replace my cheapo wind breaker, haven't had a chance to use it on an aggressive hike as a wind breaker)
That's an excellent point. Quite often you don't need both. With a wool sweater in particular, you can put a rainshell over it now and then, and take it off again, and any little vapour buildup while you have it on will actually keep you warmer, and then go away when you talk it off again when you get more active and heat up and want to dry out some. That said a more breathable wind shell can be a little more comfortable to throw on and take off, and only adds 4oz. It is more comfortable and easier to throw on not just because it is more breathable but also because it is lighter and very flexible. So I carry both a wind shell and a rain shell in Fall/Winter/Spring. In summer just a rain shell because its no biggy if the wind blows through your sweater in summer.
take-a-knee
04-23-2009, 15:55
This is a really good topic, one I am puzzled over as well. I simply don't understand the need for a wind-layer at all. I have a DriDucks parka for my rain shell and don't understand why it can't double as a wind layer. If the temp is cool enough that a wind-shell has to be worn, then I'm guessing that you aren't going to build up too much sweat by wearing a water-resistant layer. Is this a bad assumption? (note: I recently bought a DriDucks parka with the intent that it replace my cheapo wind breaker, haven't had a chance to use it on an aggressive hike as a wind breaker)
You may be right...and wrong, it depends on the weather. Since they make three ounce wind shirts, if it is going to be cold and windy it'll likely be worth the weight. They do add warmth to any insulation underneath and you can wear a windshirt and a shell in brutally cold conditions.
That's a good point also. A windshell and rainshell aren't neccessarily redundant. Normally for a barrier one shell is sufficient, but you can get some mariginal improvement in a second barrier between layers as well as the flexibility of have 2 shells vs 1. There is more of a case for that in winter or at least extreme wind and cold rain rest of the year. I carry 4oz wind shell and 8-9oz rain poncho tarp Fall/Winter/Spring, but midsummer I will get by on a trip with just one or the other, usually the rain poncho. I'm skimping too much on my actual layers mid-summer to justify 2 shells.
i think the idea behind a windshirt is to keep rain jacket strictly for rainy purposes and not put it up to the daily grind of the trail. shoulder straps, branches, bushes, etc will shorten the life of the waterproofing on any rain jacket, which is why i've switched to using both a windshirt and rain jacket...
A windshirt is just that. It is a very lightweight nylon shirt. It is not water-proof and folded up it could easily fit inside of a tennis ball. It is usually a non-hooded collared shirt with a neck zipper. A windbreaker jacket probably has a hood, a full front zipper, pockets and might well be waterproof, and is made of heavier material. It is a jacket, not a shirt.
I have a Marmot dri-clime, which replaced a fleece pull-over, but now I have replaced the fleece with a lighter sweater and windshirt combo. It gives me more options for layering. For example, I might wear the sweater over a shirt, then add the wind shirt, or I might put on the windshirt first and not use the sweater. Three options for various degrees of warmth.
The windshirt is my favorite piece of gear and I use it four seasons. (In fact, I have it on right now!) A Golite Wisp, I think. It was 50 degrees, but very windy, so I wore the wind shirt over a long sleeve shirt and that was a perfect combo for the golf course this afternoon.
Hiking, I'll put the windshirt on over my t-shirt to take the chill off. As soon as I start to over heat, the windshirt comes off and I'll stuff it in my pocket.
Stop on a windy summit,out of my pocket comes the wind shirt without having to open my pack. Same routine in the winter. On a cold night, I
might wear it in the sleeping bag. For a windbreaker, I'll use ,my Golite Virga which is my WB Rain gear, similar to the Marmot Pre-Cip.
My windshirt is my most useful and versitile piece of gear. I do not leave home without it.
(Golite even makes a version that is the same light nylon with a full length zipper, pocket and a hood. It rolls up into a sewn in pouch w/zipper.)
Smartwool sweater, windshirt, and the Virga togehter weigh 1 lb.1 oz. and roll up as small as a kid's football or a 9x5 stuff sack. Windshirt alone weighs 3 oz. Lots of warmth without taking up much room in the pack.
Phoenixdadeadhead
04-26-2009, 09:17
I am strange I like to just use an undershirt. It is army issue, not sure of the material but it works great
i think the idea behind a windshirt is to keep rain jacket strictly for rainy purposes and not put it up to the daily grind of the trail. shoulder straps, branches, bushes, etc will shorten the life of the waterproofing on any rain jacket, which is why i've switched to using both a windshirt and rain jacket...
Well, I have to say that Wags makes quite a good argument for having both a windshirt and rain jacket.
i read that as some advise a book somewhere
How about a windshirt as sun/UV protection?
I am considering hiking the Colorado Trail this summer. I was thinking about wearing/buying a windshirt as sun protection in above treeline terrain.
Any thoughts?
SloHiker
05-08-2009, 15:33
Grinder, I'm pretty much in the same camp as Rambler. A 4-6 oz unlined windshirt makes my baselayers (lightweight Smartwool to expedition weight polypro) perform much better.
This stuff is so subjective, but for me personally, an unlined windshirt used in conjunction with a good baselayer has proven to be much more versatile than my lined Marmot Driclime.
I have several unlined windshirts (Patagonia Houdini, Golite Wisp, Mountain Hardwear Phantom Anorak) and use them more (everyday wear & outdoor use) than other clothing pieces I own.
If you don't care to spend a bunch of $$$, find a generic nylon "windbreaker" that has some DWR and venting features and you'll be good to go. ExOfficio makes one I've seen on sale for $20. Lands End & LL Bean have inexpensive versions, also.
I can't count the times I've been "saved" from unexpected conditions by a 4 oz windshirt that's always brought along just in case. It's made the difference between being miserable and being comfortable enough to finish the days activities. I keep one in my truck - in my pack - always!
Jayboflavin04
05-11-2009, 07:54
I gotta say. I like mine also! I dont thing Outdoor Research makes it anymore though. Mine on the other hand has a hood, and sems to be that take it with me every time clothing article.
brooklynkayak
05-14-2009, 09:54
I have a Outdoor research windshirt that I bought used here on WB. It weighs 3-5oz and is nice on those windy cool spring days. I would like to treat it with some revivex on add a little more water repellancy.
Ouch, that would ruin one of the best aspects of a windshirt. If you want a waterproof jacket buy windbreaker.
A windshirt should breath. A windshirt adds a lot of warmth to a shirt, sweater, fleece,...
You don't sweat as much as you would in a jacket amd a highly breathable windshirt repels sprinkles pretty good.
It is the one thing I always carry from day to day.
I will admit that they tend to be ridiculously expensive as they aren't that popular with the masses so aren't produced in great mass production cycles.
A test:
Hiking on a cool windy day, wearing a shirt or light fleece/sweater,
Take the windshirt off and on and compare the added warmth that a few onces can bring.
Now do that with a rain jacket or poncho (usually much heavier) and notice how wet your clothes get.