View Full Version : Need serious advice for gung-ho brother-in-law.
Vonderbach
01-11-2009, 15:21
I have an 18 year old brother-in-law that I regard as a very close friend. He is seriously intending on hiking the entire AT straight through. A couple things concern me, some more than others.
1. He's 18, just barely of legal age. He's mature for his age, but I still wonder if he has the experience necessary for such a journey.
2. He wants to start now, and I see this as a major concern. Starting at the Southern point, I expect he would encounter some horrendous weather this time of year.
I am going to invite him to read this thread, so please provide us with your honest advice. I wanted to at least take him to an AT prep course which is offered by a local sporting goods store.
What say you all?
saimyoji
01-11-2009, 15:31
both your points have no validity. many hikers start this time of year, for many reasons. 18 is not too young, ask kirby.
Toolshed
01-11-2009, 15:32
Well for starters, I would drop the "barely, since he IS of legal age. ;)
Experience is simply learning from yours and others mistakes (he and others hiking might make a few, but will likely are well from them).
In Lone Wolf's words, "It's Walking - It's putting one step in front of the other"
I only wish I could go back and do a TH when I was 18.
I wish him the best. He is lucky to have a BIL who has an interest, instead of the "I'm only talking to you becuase I have to" syndrome.
saimyoji
01-11-2009, 15:34
both your points have no validity. many hikers start this time of year, for many reasons. 18 is not too young, ask kirby.
let me re-phrase that: if he has the hiking, camping, backwoods experience, he should have no problems. if he is a beginner, he'll likely learn very quickly. he'll not be alone, even this time of year there are others starting this early. after a little while, he'll be in good company.
get him to explore this site, its a very valuable resource. it'll help him prepare, and allay many of your concerns. best of luck.
:welcome
buff_jeff
01-11-2009, 15:35
Nothing wrong there. Let him go. I was 19 when I started sectioning the AT, and there have been plenty of younger people that have thru-hiked and/or done long sections.
He's an adult, let him go and try. You can't shelter the guy's existence forever. He's got to get out and live his own life sooner or later, what better time than now?
Vonderbach
01-11-2009, 15:40
I wasn't looking for people to prop up my opinion, just in case that was how it looked. I am truly surprised to see the replies above. I now feel a bit more comfortable giving him my encouragement.
And yes, he's 18, so I have no say in the end. But I do tend to have some influence, but in this case, I have zero "experience" with this type of adventure. I wish I could go with him, but alas, I will have to settle for weekend hikes.
Thanks all for your candid opinions. I'm sure he will be happy to read this thread and the remainder of the site. If nothing else, I'm going to help him prepare so he doesn't freeze his a$$ off. :)
Thanks again
WILLIAM HAYES
01-11-2009, 15:40
go for it learn as much as you can from the veteran hikers on whiteblaze hike your own hike it is not a race and about max mileage every day get your weight and equipment tuned in and go hiking
Aint no schooling or job out there that is going to give any relevant experience to long distance hiking. Some experience backpacking helps, but you don't have to be an expert on the subject of the weekend backpacking trips. The main thing is just being flexable and learning from your mistakes.
What do you mean by starting now? Jan 11th now or this spring now?
You don't need an AT prep course. A copy of the thru hikers companion or handbook or pages pretty much lays everything out for you. You just hike from one town to the next and the book tells you where the grocery store is at, where the hostels and hotels are at, where everything else is at. It is very simple. Just have him look around on here and he can learn much more than a prep course. I took the backpacking class in college for an easy A and the classroom instruction was worthless for someone who had backpacked at least once before.
Vonderbach
01-11-2009, 15:54
He wants to start now, as in a couple weeks. He won't have much money, maybe $1000-$1500 at best. So he will likely be keeping to the shelters for the most part.
I suggested starting in Spring so as to keep a decent climate for his entire trip, but he's set on getting on the trail soon. I will be sure to get the guidebook for him prior to his start. It's the least I can do.
knicksin2010
01-11-2009, 15:57
Does he live in Tampa? How much AT experience does he have? I ask because I know Floridians who hadn’t really seen hills and snow before they moved north.
He’s old enough. I was 17/18/19 the summers when I did the trail.
He’ll see horrendous cold and winter precipitation. There’s a reason most people don’t start in January, but other people will be out there.
If you’re looking to scare him out of it, this is probably the wrong site. It’s got some great resources which helped me plan and avoid some of the common pitfalls.
Make sure he has adequate equipment for this time of year. By that I mean adequate to survive, not necessarily be comfortable. You know, not taking bluejeans and a 40* bag. Even then he will probably survive, but not good to push it too much. :D
He will quickly learn where he wants to modify his gear. And when he sees others out in the same weather and temps able to enjoy themselves, he will re-evaluate and emulate. It's how he learned to walk and talk, right?
As others said, he will run into other folks out there. Doubt if any of them would pass him by if he really got himself into trouble.
Sounds like a fantastic adventure for a curious young man. Best wishes for him.
knicksin2010
01-11-2009, 16:01
He wants to start now, as in a couple weeks. He won't have much money, maybe $1000-$1500 at best. So he will likely be keeping to the shelters for the most part.
I suggested starting in Spring so as to keep a decent climate for his entire trip, but he's set on getting on the trail soon. I will be sure to get the guidebook for him prior to his start. It's the least I can do.1,500 won't get him to ME.
He wants to start now, as in a couple weeks. He won't have much money, maybe $1000-$1500 at best. So he will likely be keeping to the shelters for the most part.
I suggested starting in Spring so as to keep a decent climate for his entire trip, but he's set on getting on the trail soon. I will be sure to get the guidebook for him prior to his start. It's the least I can do.He has a very slim chance on that budget. He would do better just planning on hiking to Harpers Ferry and doing the rest later. If I was just going to Harpers Ferry I would start in April to avoid the cold. I think that he will still learn a ton and have a very valuable experience. This is assuming he already has his gear and doesn't have to dig into the budget for that.
TrippinBTM
01-11-2009, 16:15
A slim chance with that budget indeed. Especially if he's not used to cold and snow; the temptation to get into a hotel or at least a hostel will always be there. I suggest he wait a month or two and try to save some more money. He'll have better weather too.
TrippinBTM
01-11-2009, 16:15
But I definitely think he should do it.
If he has hopes of getting to ME, I'd suggest having him read articles by Weathercarrot. He's a bevy of info on hiking on the cheap. Since he is not of drinking age, that's a whole lot of savings there. Plus, if he leaves soon, he will be far enough ahead of the pack to avoid being caught in the party. But, he has to commit to hiking thru some seriously ugly trail, like say the Smokies in early Feb. If he is mature as you say his age will be an advantage to his endeavor. Besides, never to early to gets to steppin'.
I'd say, chances of finishing are slim but not none. Weather will suck early and late (he'd hit New England at the height of bug season). The suggestion of getting off at HF is not a bad one. But, I'd encourage him.
I don't think Jan is the best time to begin a through hike. I don't know his experience but as you know weather can be really bad. There were 2 hypothermia deaths in NC in 2008. Standing Indian and the Smokies could have long walks out to get help
bigcranky
01-11-2009, 16:17
1. An 18 year old can certainly hike the Trail. That's not a big deal.
2. A winter start is more of a big deal. There are several issues:
a. It's really cold. Does he have winter hiking experience, with low temps in the single digits? While there may be other hikers out there, I've gone several days on the AT in January without seeing anyone. Winter hiking is not, IMHO, for the inexperienced hiker.
b. It costs more. The proper gear is more expensive, and he'll need to spend more time in towns waiting out the serious winter storms.
If he's serious about hiking this year, and he doesn't have winter hiking experience and the proper gear, he might be better off working for a few months, making some more money, and starting April 1.
both your points have no validity.
Just to clarify , he says neither of your points are valid.
superman
01-11-2009, 16:21
If you want to help him, try to set up a financial loan/pay back option for him. He's going to need it to finish the AT.:-?
Johnny Thunder
01-11-2009, 16:21
A slim chance with that budget indeed. Especially if he's not used to cold and snow; the temptation to get into a hotel or at least a hostel will always be there. I suggest he wait a month or two and try to save some more money. He'll have better weather too.
I agree...waiting another 8 to 10 weeks will allow him to save more (as much as another grand) and will help him stretch the money he has into longer miles.
futureatwalker
01-11-2009, 16:23
How much experience does he have? Has he backpacked in the winter before?
I was hiking around Harper's Ferry in November, and it was seriously cold up on the trail (which was up on the ridge). It's one thing to be out in the cold for an hour; it's a lot different when you're out there all the time. It wouldn't surprise me if it was pretty cold still in February starting from Springer. I had a 20 degree down bag, and I woke in the middle of the night because I was so cold. (Next time, I'll bring a liner.)
If your brother-in-law is set on going, encourage him to have a good sleeping bag. If it were me, I'd also bring a light down jacket.
saimyoji
01-11-2009, 17:40
Just to clarify , he says neither of your points are valid.
ok gramer boy. :rolleyes:
ok gramer boy. :rolleyes:
If you read even a small fraction of my posts you should know i am NO grammer?..grammar...gramar.. @#$@@!! , boy was just restating the obvious..in an obvious way...
1,500 won't get him to ME.
No, probably not, but if he makes decent time, he could probably stop someplace when he ran out of money and get a temp job. I've known a lot of folks on long trips that did that, myself included. Took six weeks off, worked right where the money ran out. Save every penny, then hike on.
There are often a bunch of jobs available if you aren't picky and get the word out that you need work. Churches are a good place to start, often have elderly folks who would love some yard work or repairs done.
18 is plenty old enough to hike the trail. Kirby was 16 last year when he thru-hiked.
Paying for an AT backpacking course is a waste of money, he'll learn all he needs to know in the first few weeks.
1500 is not near enough to finish the AT. Double that at least.
I'd wait if I were him till at least mid-March.
ALSO, this next weekend, MLK weekend, is the Southern Ruck in N. Carolina. There are still bunks left for under 20 a night. If he can attend this, he'll learn tons about the trail and gear and be able to pick the brains of past thru hikers.
I would also suggest he wait till early to mid March. That would reduce at least the chance of serious cold/ice/snow in the southern Appalachians and he could arrive at the end with the fine weather of late summer.
If he could attend some kinds of hiker prep session that would be advisable. Maybe at least read a book or two about thru hiking so he knows what he is getting into?
Other than that, I'd say go for it!
David
elmotoots
01-11-2009, 18:38
He is a lucky 18yr old. !! BUT !!
tell him to go back and read E-doc's post on page 1
18 is not to young to hike alone, but he should have a really good understanding of signs and symptoms of Hypothermia, and how to react if he wants to do it safely.
I would not encourage him to go this early unless he had an experienced buddy to go with. Otherwise wait for march.
people have frozen to death in Feb, and mar in the Smokies.
Support his decision to hike, but not alone in the cold.
l0ngterm
01-11-2009, 19:08
For me, there was no greater time in my life than that when I first became an adult in the sense that I was finished with mandatory education and could make my own decisions. I enlisted in the Air Force but had 3 months before I had to report so me and a buddy grabbed some our boy scout gear, hitch-hiked from about 30 miles south of Atlanta to Springer and walked for about 6 weeks. At the time I had never heard of thru-hiking but wouldn't have had time anyway.
I look back at that trip as a defining moment in my life. Always seek adventure and always rely on yourself. Everytime I get on the trail today (I'm 43 now), I still remember those days on that hike and I think it taught me a lot about myself and life.
Do not be fearful for your brother-in-law, encourage him. No matter what happens he will be blazing his own path and that is what life is all about.
l0ngterm
A slim chance with that budget indeed. Especially if he's not used to cold and snow; the temptation to get into a hotel or at least a hostel will always be there. I suggest he wait a month or two and try to save some more money. He'll have better weather too.
I agree absolutely. Unless he's had a lot of winter experience, this is not a good time to start -- especially with a very limited budget.
As near as I can tell from my several hikes, temperatures and general climate of the high ridges of Georgia and North Carolina are pretty identical to the climate on the coast of Maine -- at least come April and May the same flowers seem to flower about the same time, and leaves leaf out in both places about the same time.
If I am right, night time temperatures will from time to time be in the plus single numbers, maybe lower.
I would suggest starting in mid March, maybe even April 1. Then even an inexperienced person has a reasonable chance of achieving his dreams.
But everyone should recognize that a $1,500 budget is skimpy at any season. It is especially skimpy with a January start. I think I could hike north bound starting May 1 on $1,500. But having lived a lifetime on limited budgets, I'm pretty skilled at wise purchasing, and cooking. Your BIL should ask himself, if he is, especialy, starting almost four month earlier.
Weary
TrippinBTM
01-11-2009, 20:25
1500 is not near enough to finish the AT. Double that at least.
That's not true; I did it for well under 3000, and could have done it for under 2000 if I'd stayed solo; you spend more money when in a group, in motels and town-fun in general. For example, I wouldn't have gone to Trail Days if I was alone, but the group convinced me. So there went 3 and a half more days in town. And I really would have stayed in fewer hostels/towns if I were solo (my plan was to do a lot of in-and-out resupplies.
But hiking with a group is so much more fun that I didn't worry about it.
That's not true; I did it for well under 3000, and could have done it for under 2000 if I'd stayed solo; you spend more money when in a group, in motels and town-fun in general. For example, I wouldn't have gone to Trail Days if I was alone, but the group convinced me. So there went 3 and a half more days in town. And I really would have stayed in fewer hostels/towns if I were solo (my plan was to do a lot of in-and-out resupplies.
But hiking with a group is so much more fun that I didn't worry about it.
So, now tell us in more detail, what this kid needs to do differently than what you did, considering that he may be starting later, and may have fewer resources.
Weary
Blissful
01-11-2009, 20:45
Sorry, but someone said an 18 yr old is an adult and I beg to differ. That's not to mean they couldn't do something like the trail, but to say he is an adut knowng what it means to be an adult is a misnomer (I am a mother of an 18 yr old). 18 is still a teen and trying to determine the best path in life (which is bumpy at best). And I think it's good you're concerned and want to make sure it's the right thing to do. Best bet for him and you is to read here, esp about cold weather hiking, and the articles as well. But I can say, if he is determined to do it, there isn't much stopping him. He will find out much sooner than later whether it was a good idea or not...and sometimes all we can do is watch and sigh.
He wants to start now, as in a couple weeks. He won't have much money, maybe $1000-$1500 at best. So he will likely be keeping to the shelters for the most part.
I suggested starting in Spring so as to keep a decent climate for his entire trip, but he's set on getting on the trail soon. I will be sure to get the guidebook for him prior to his start. It's the least I can do.You are right to believe he wait until at least spring to begin. Someone with only $1000 available for a thru-hike(assuming no helpful family members to turn to for capital when that runs out) is going to spend more starting out in the cold then starting out with better weather most likely. Also if his gear choices are a reflection of his thru hike funds, he could wind up in dire straights in the middle of winter attempting to camp outside with substandard gear and clothing, if that is the case.
Kayak Karl is hiking NOBO as we speak.
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6500&highlight=january+start
Notice that he has a journal on line, so you can get an idea as to the conditions in GA from the past few days.
buckwheat
01-11-2009, 21:52
Well, I hesitate to even enter this thread at this point, but after reading everyone's advice, here's my angle. Take if for what it's worth (which is about two whole cents):
Anyone who wants to start in January and attempt the hike with $1,500 is either:
a) rabidly committed (not a bad thing)
b) probably not mature enough to finish the trail
But they're certainly mature enough to start it.
So, I say let him go. You will likely see them back again in 3 weeks time anyhow, or in May (either one).
You haven't mentioned much about this person's situation, but it sounds a lot like they're looking for an excuse to get away from a controlling authority in their life (or worse). Makes me wonder if there's more to the story.
BitBucket
01-11-2009, 21:54
Between 16 and 19, my son was traveling all across the USA. At 20, he backpacked across Europe for 4 - 1/2 months. At 21, he spent 3 months backpacking in South America. At 22, he spent 5 months backpacking in the middle east (Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Syria, and a few others he doesn't want us to know about). At 24 he is currently in Africa for a year.
He has already done and seen more in his early adult life than I've been able to do in 52 years...
I was initially very worried that he couldn't do this as he was too young...Now I'm very envious of what he has accomplished for someone his age...
It's hard to let them go the first time, but let me assure you that he is definitely "old" enough if he has the desire, the resolve, good sense, and his health.
Encourage him do these things while he is still young. Once he gets past the 50 mark, his chances of being able to do something like a thru-hike start to drop significantly for a variety of reasons (family, job, commitments, health, etc)
You didn't elaborate on his physical fitness or mental maturity. If he's in fairly good condition, mentally strong and tenacious, he can make it. He can work along the way at some of the hostels to pick up some more money, but he will still probably run out about half way and be forced to abort his hike. He needs at least $3,000.00 and be very frugal to do the entire trail.
I hiked some of VA with a 18 or 19 year old who had just graduated high school and I don't know if he finished or not, but he certainly had the ability to. He did the quad-state, 40 mile challange with no trouble. His trail name as Pusher. If someone out there knows whether or not he finished I would like to hear from you.
for a jan start to be comfortable and safe then go to summer gear in may I might would use 4000 in gear. you don't get good winter gear cheep or used. Summer gear is much easier I would put together a nice set of used gear including clothing for a few hundred depending on size it would take a while till I get back to the states
ok gramer boy. :rolleyes:
You mean grammar. :banana
Jim Adams
01-11-2009, 23:58
Just my opinion.
Work until late feb., start March 1st.
He will still get to do a bit of COLD weather hiking. There will be more people around but the crowd will still be behind him.
This will give him a whole extra month to save therefore a better buget.
He will still have to learn about cold weather hiking and deal with it but it won't be as long or as cold.
If he needs help out there there will be more new friends around to help but typically not a group of 20 new friends luring him into town parties.
I moved 175 miles from home at 16 years old for a job that I really wanted. I think that that young adventure set the stage for the rest of my life.
Let him go. Back him all that you can. He will be better for it in the future.
geek
Toolshed
01-12-2009, 00:29
Sorry, but someone said an 18 yr old is an adult and I beg to differ. That's not to mean they couldn't do something like the trail, but to say he is an adut knowng what it means to be an adult is a misnomer (I am a mother of an 18 yr old). 18 is still a teen and trying to determine the best path in life (which is bumpy at best). And I think it's good you're concerned and want to make sure it's the right thing to do. Best bet for him and you is to read here, esp about cold weather hiking, and the articles as well. But I can say, if he is determined to do it, there isn't much stopping him. He will find out much sooner than later whether it was a good idea or not...and sometimes all we can do is watch and sigh.
You raise an excellent point - there are 18 year olds that are not mature enough to get by in the world as adults yet - They may need more time. And then there are those that are able to with no ill effect. There's probably enough others on the board that have been 18 once that can chime in, on that thought though.
superman
01-12-2009, 08:23
You raise an excellent point - there are 18 year olds that are not mature enough to get by in the world as adults yet - They may need more time. And then there are those that are able to with no ill effect. There's probably enough others on the board that have been 18 once that can chime in, on that thought though.
When I was 18 years old I hiked with friends for up to 30 days at a time carrying approximately 80 lb packs. We didn’t have cell phones in those days but we had radios so we could chat with each other. Town stops were different in that if they weren’t friendly, some times, we lit them up. All my expenses were paid and I got free gear. I was talking to one of my hiking partners from those days and he asked me how old I am. He had thought all these years that I was older than him…in fact he’s a year older than me. I had just started hiking before him. When I was 19 I did a sobo section hike on the HCM trail.
So, is a 18 years old too young to hike the AT….LMAO.
Most, not all but most people hiking in winter are aware of what they will face as far as weather conditions. I am more concerned with when he starts than his age. If he starts at Springer now and heads north he will likely see single digits or below 0 in the Smokies along with snow in February. Please carry a -20 degree bag and a good down coat and know how to layer and keep dry from your own sweat. Prepare for the worst with plenty of food. People have been known to hole up in Tricorner shelter for up to a wwek after snow storms. I would not wnat to see my face on the local news after having to be pulled out of something I wasn't prepared for!! Otherwise good luck and go for it!
If his primary interest is the whole winter thing, he should start sooner, but he will need more clothing and a bigger sleeping bag and not so concerned about covering the distance. If he is inexperienced in winter then he shouldn't go alone, but if he does go alone he would need to spend alot of time testing himself and his gear close to trail heads where he can make exits. Even that would take alot of sound judgement that people aren't like to have at any age without some experience. If he is primarily interested in the distance, he would do well to start later. I don't think the lack of money is a big issue as long as he is prepared to stop when he runs out. Personally, I think taking $1500 and seeing how far you can go on that is commendable. Going 1000 miles on $1500 of your own money is better than going 2000 miles on someone elses. He might make it all the way, but it would be far more likely if he waited until May. If its the winter challenge he wants, then he might need to spend $250-$500 on extra gear, and $250-$500 on transport and lodging and restraunts bailing out of the worst weather, and he would need to be more content with days in the woods than miles covered, but if he was to go 50 days in winter on $1500, including extra gear and logistics of winter, and only make 250 miles, that would still be very commendable as long as he doesn't put himself or others in harms way. I've never done the AT, but I think he's looking at either 250 miles in winter or 1000 miles in summer, or something in between, but none of that would be anything to sneeze at. I would recommend against winter though, if he is going alone without the winter experience. I grew up with Canadian winters and did 3 months of basic training in BC in winter and still made alot of mistakes when I started hiking alone. He would have to be very disciplined at studying climate and weather and sticking close to trailheads and just poking in and backing our to test and learn before going deeper and higher from one trailhead to another, and even then, chances are he would make some mistakes and run into some bad luck.
What you could both do is do a few winter weekend excursions together between now and spring, might be alot of driving up to Springer for Tampa, for just one overnight on the trail, but if you picked some nasty weather it might be fun. Perhaps you could do two nights over a long weekend, and then take a week off and do a section together, and then you would both have an idea how long he should wait before he starts the long walk, and how far he should expect to get.
Blissful
01-12-2009, 09:45
Maturity is a huge key. Then again, 16-18 yr olds were married in the olden days. :) And my nephew who just turned 20 just got married on Dec 26, is in the army and heading off to Afghanistan in a month. Talk about needing to grow up quick.
All I can say is, if this young dude's determined and will do it no matter what, let him do it and find out for himself...
My $.02:
He's old enough.
He may be mature enough. Living without the normal support matrix tests many "mature, responsible" adults. Long-distance hiking is a different stress than city life.
Only about 10+% of folks who start the AT intending to do a through-hike Georgia to Maine actually finish it, for many reasons, such as "not what they thought it would be," "harder than thought it would be," physical injury, boredom, finances run out, or personal reasons off the trail (family member becomes sick, etc.)
The biggest questions regarding your BIL are:
a) Is he experienced in long-distance hiking? He doesn't have to be, and the AT is a great place to learn, but a start in late March would be a better time if he has a learning curve so that he could lean on others (the "pack") that are starting then also. They can be his safety net for the inevitable mistakes. The downside is that many of the young folks in the pack like to party in towns, and your BIL's budget doesn't really match up with that.
b) Does he have winter backpacking experience? The weather gets into the teens and single digits regularly in the Southern Appalachians in winter. It can snow a couple of feet in the mountains, meaning folks get stranded for several days and its tough to plan around that. It is tough to hike deep snow without snowshoes, tough to hike frozen waterfall-like trail without mini-crampons, tough to make camp, cook gear, keep clean, take a crap, etc. in bone-chilling cold. Waiting out a 5-day storm in a town could run $60-100/day.
Just as bad is hiking in 3 straight days of rain when the temps are in the 30's. More than snow, cold rain means more chance of hypothermia.
Winter amplifies the objective difficulty maybe 2-3 times. And doing it solo is even harder, with no one else to share chores, watch your back.
Unless he is unusually mature both in judgment and discipline, experienced in backpacking and resourceful, winter is NOT the time to face that learning curve.
Better that he wait until spring if he is not experienced, then by all means, go for it!
What you could both do is do a few winter weekend excursions together between now and spring, might be alot of driving up to Springer for Tampa, ....
There's some good hiking in Ocala National Forest. The Florida Trail goes through there. Pick a rainy weekend to go...that should give him some rough idea of some level of difficulty he will face.
TrippinBTM
01-12-2009, 10:54
So, now tell us in more detail, what this kid needs to do differently than what you did, considering that he may be starting later, and may have fewer resources.
Weary
Hike alone, hike fast, and stay out of towns as much as possible (can't spend money in the woods).
and, an 18 yr old is an adult. It's just that our society causes people to remain children even into their twenties. Heck, there's a lot of childishness in most adults these days. It's all in the upbringing, and not just at home, but the overall expectations of society. People don't start their work, oftentimes, until their mid-twenties after college. A hundred years ago, you started your work (on the farm) from much younger; childhood really, doing chores and easing into the harder jobs as you grew. A hunter-gatherer knew all he needed to know to survive by age 15, or earlier. I blame our educational system.
Nowadays, it just depends on the maturity level of the teen.
saimyoji
01-12-2009, 12:19
You mean grammar. :banana
no i doesn't.
tom_alan
01-12-2009, 12:39
He's an adult, let him go and try. You can't shelter the guy's existence forever. He's got to get out and live his own life sooner or later, what better time than now?
I got to agree with Hooch on this one.
I wish I was that ambitious when I was that age. I think he should do it now instead of carrying the burden of not trying through-out his life.
If I could go back and relive my life, you can bet that I would have been on the trail by now.
Section Hiking Colorado Trail,
Tom Alan
saimyoji
01-12-2009, 12:49
I got to agree with Hooch on this one.
I wish I was that ambitious when I was that age. I think he should do it now instead of carrying the burden of not trying through-out his life.
If I could go back and relive my life, you can bet that I would have been on the trail by now.
Section Hiking Colorado Trail,
Tom Alan
Hi Tom. :welcome
Tell him to hold off another month and do whatever possible to raise funds.
donate/sell plasmsa
sell clothing
call a temp agency and find a few quick jobs
Assuming he finishes the trail in 5 months(which would be somewhat fast compared to the "average", 1500 is 10 dollars a day. Thats enough to get by on, but an 18 year old might not have the experience necessary to remain on budget. Stress the need to keep track of the math, know what he can spend.
I have an 18 year old brother-in-law that I regard as a very close friend. He is seriously intending on hiking the entire AT straight through. A couple things concern me, some more than others.
1. He's 18, just barely of legal age. He's mature for his age, but I still wonder if he has the experience necessary for such a journey.
2. He wants to start now, and I see this as a major concern. Starting at the Southern point, I expect he would encounter some horrendous weather this time of year.
I am going to invite him to read this thread, so please provide us with your honest advice. I wanted to at least take him to an AT prep course which is offered by a local sporting goods store.
What say you all?Without providing everyone here with more information about your brother-in-law I don't believe anyone can really assess this situation accurately. I mean there are 18 year olds that have the knowledge and ability to successfully start out high in the mountains in the dead of winter and be geared well and will succeed admirably, and then there are 18 year olds who don't have a clue and wind up in trouble or worse. More info about your brother-in-law would be helpful.
tom_alan
01-12-2009, 13:44
Hi Tom. :welcome
:welcome
There's some good hiking in Ocala National Forest. The Florida Trail goes through there. Pick a rainy weekend to go...that should give him some rough idea of some level of difficulty he will face.Except that whole "hiking in hills" thing. :D:banana
paradoxb3
01-12-2009, 14:46
In addition to all that has been mentioned already, please take the time to consider the following things:
- The days will be shorter, colder, and weather will be poor. That equals less miles per day, fatigue, and that "why, oh why am i out here" feeling. This will just slow you down and eat into the budget faster.
- With a $1500 budget, he'll pretty much be stuck with what he starts with on springer. Think about it -- How many hikers do you know that only own ONE backpack, sleeping bag, shelter, stove, sleeping pad, etc, and have used them all since they first started hiking? Why do we all own so much? Cuz' the crap we bought the first 1 or 2 times was either too heavy, didnt work to our expectations, or we just found something better...
I would CERTAINLY suggest he go hike... But I would also suggest that he really THINK about what hes about to do, and ask himself if he wants to be in that VERY high early failure percentage, or that VERY VERY low successful percentage...
Listen to the experienced folks here. Start in March-April. Save some more money. Use your head and you'll make it to the big K!
i thru hiked when i was 18/19. i graduated high school and too a full year off from college. i worked thru til march then left for georgia. i started on march 19th and finished on august 12th in time to go back to school.
if you have the determination, and you do your homework for your gear, then there should be nothing to worry about.you would be surprised on how many people around my age i saw out on the trail.
In addition to all that has been mentioned already, please take the time to consider the following things:
- The days will be shorter, colder, and weather will be poor. That equals less miles per day, fatigue, and that "why, oh why am i out here" feeling. This will just slow you down and eat into the budget faster.
- With a $1500 budget, he'll pretty much be stuck with what he starts with on springer. Think about it -- How many hikers do you know that only own ONE backpack, sleeping bag, shelter, stove, sleeping pad, etc, and have used them all since they first started hiking? Why do we all own so much? Cuz' the crap we bought the first 1 or 2 times was either too heavy, didnt work to our expectations, or we just found something better...
I would CERTAINLY suggest he go hike... But I would also suggest that he really THINK about what hes about to do, and ask himself if he wants to be in that VERY high early failure percentage, or that VERY VERY low successful percentage...
Listen to the experienced folks here. Start in March-April. Save some more money. Use your head and you'll make it to the big K!
I think this is good advice, but I wouldn't worry so much about being in a very high failure percentage or not making it all the way to Katahdin. Depends on what his real objectives are. Is it to make it all the way, as soon as possible, or is it to have the best adventure he can as soon as possible on $1500, as long as its safe? It's not all that clear from the OP what the objective is. If it was myself at 18, it might be to go all the way on $1500 starting as soon as possible, and that would have been unrealistic. In hind site, for myself at 18, a better and more realistic objective for myself would not be to go all the way, but simply to learn as much and have the most adventure, starting as soon as it is safe for the clothing and gear and type of hiking I want to do. I would start sooner, for the challenge and adventure, but only after a few weekend tests. That would add some transportation costs, but that would be shared with a partner. I would be happy to go 50 days and 250 winter miles on $1500, first time out. Anything over that would be bonus. 100 days and 1000 miles would be really nice, but maybe not worth waiting for summer if I am interested in cold weather hiking. The big K and the 2000 mile clube could wait, but that's just me, looking back in hind site, if I was 18 and living in Florida.
Grumpy5280
01-13-2009, 13:50
I see a contradiction: does anyone else?
You state that he is mature for his age, but he is hot to leave NOW.
A mature individual would have a better grasp of the calculus between resources (money, gear, experience) and expenses and goals...
Just sayin'.
I admire his spunk and I would definitely want to encourage him to pursue his passion for the outdoors...just maybe not on the AT, now...maybe do what so many others have said...wait for spring.
leeki pole
01-13-2009, 14:06
I guess my biggest question has already been asked. Being from Tampa, where 40 degrees is frigid, can he cope with really, really cold weather day after day? Heck, it's supposed to get down in the single digits here this week and people are going to freak. But they're inside and he's not. I say wait for late March or early April. Southerners don't handle cold very well.
leeki pole
01-13-2009, 14:10
To elaborate, the only Southerner who can handle the cold really well is....Brett Favre.
I see a contradiction: does anyone else?
You state that he is mature for his age, but he is hot to leave NOW.
A mature individual would have a better grasp of the calculus between resources (money, gear, experience) and expenses and goals...
Just sayin'.
I admire his spunk and I would definitely want to encourage him to pursue his passion for the outdoors...just maybe not on the AT, now...maybe do what so many others have said...wait for spring.I don't see a contradiction. There are many opinions on how to approach this even among mature experienced individuals. He is admittedly inexperienced, but not neccessarily immature. Winter hiking and camping can be learned solo, as long as it is done with extreme caution. It isn't clear whether his real objective is thru-hiking the AT, or gaining cold weather experience and adventure on the AT, but that is a separate issue. I would agree that he sounds typically inexperienced and immature, but he might still be mature for his age, just not enough to make up for the inexperience. I think he could pursue cold weather adventuring, but he shouldn't do it solo. If his real ambition is long distance hiking, not cold weather adventuring, then he should wait, but its not clear from the OP what the real ambitions are.
I guess my biggest question has already been asked. Being from Tampa, where 40 degrees is frigid, can he cope with really, really cold weather day after day? Heck, it's supposed to get down in the single digits here this week and people are going to freak. But they're inside and he's not. I say wait for late March or early April. Southerners don't handle cold very well.I think anyone that is young and fit and healthy can cold acclimatize in a short period of time. Most of us in the North have to do over again each year, and it comes slower as we age, and most of use don't do it all that well as we spend most time indoors or in cars and parking garages. I think cold weather experience is critical, but not cold acclimitization. Alot of people even hike in cold weather without allowing themselves to acclimatize. A lot of talk of 0degF bags, and cold sleepers.
Suck it up and hike in shorts in 0degF now and then.
Sleep in a 20degF in -20degF. That's acclimitization.
But I would take experience over acclimitization any day of the year.
the goat
01-13-2009, 14:25
Suck it up and hike in shorts in 0degF now and then.
Sleep in a 20degF in -20degF. That's acclimitization.
really? you do this often?
budforester
01-13-2009, 14:26
He wants to start now, as in a couple weeks. He won't have much money, maybe $1000-$1500 at best. So he will likely be keeping to the shelters for the most part.
I suggested starting in Spring so as to keep a decent climate for his entire trip, but he's set on getting on the trail soon. I will be sure to get the guidebook for him prior to his start. It's the least I can do.
Would he be interested in including the Florida Trail? Now might be a good time to start that, without so much cold- weather concerns; maybe he would let you help with resupply and join him on weekends. And wouldn't that put him at Springer, optimum time? If he resolves the financial part, he could hike all the way to Canada.
really? you do this often?The hiking in shorts yes, the sleeping in -20F in a 20F bag now, not if I can help it. As I said, experience is more important than acclimatization. Acclimatization can get you killed. You can get a false sense of security. There is much to be said for being uncomfortable and unable to sleep when its -20F.
Johnny Thunder
01-13-2009, 15:03
There is much to be said for being uncomfortable and unable to sleep when its -20F.
Like what?
the goat
01-13-2009, 15:11
There is much to be said for being uncomfortable and unable to sleep when its -20F.
actually, i can sum up all that needs to be said on the subject in six words: "it sucks and can kill you".
Johnny Thunder
01-13-2009, 15:14
Oh, so it's like saying "there's something to be said for being uncomfortable and unable to leave your hand on a hot burner."
Lone Wolf
01-13-2009, 15:16
There is much to be said for being uncomfortable and unable to sleep when its -20F.
what kinda muldoon goes out and tries to sleep in -20 with a +20 bag? what is to be said is, is said muldoon is a friggin idiot
the goat
01-13-2009, 15:25
Oh, so it's like saying "there's something to be said for being uncomfortable and unable to leave your hand on a hot burner."
exactly, or like saying: "there's much to be said for being uncomfortable and unable to sleep at the bottom of a lake".
bigcranky
01-13-2009, 15:39
There's an "ignore" feature on this forum. I recommend it highly.
randyg45
01-13-2009, 16:34
I took my first week-long solo when I was 15. Drove to Yellowstone- from Ga- when I was 17 and spent 6 weeks or so hiking and camping. Solo. At age 18 my Dad gave me a power of attorney naming me as my 15-year-old brothers legal guardian. We hitched to Yellowstone....
More power to him. He could be doing the drunken frat-boy thing....
The way people move from immature to mature is by having difficult experiences and (if they're smart) learning from them. If the lad is already mature, he may become more so. If he is not mature, he will have an opportunity to change that.
I think anyone that is young and fit and healthy can cold acclimatize in a short period of time. ...
Only if he has the right gear, and nothing I've read so far suggests that he has. Not only is he missing the gear, he apparently does not have any experience in how to use it. November, even December, is a great time to learn about gear vs cold. January is rarely a great time for that great learning experience.
Weary
Only if he has the right gear, and nothing I've read so far suggests that he has. Not only is he missing the gear, he apparently does not have any experience in how to use it. November, even December, is a great time to learn about gear vs cold. January is rarely a great time for that great learning experience.
Wearyonly thing we know about this kid is that he is young and ain't got much folding money. he may well have plenty of winter gear, he may not. he may have experience, he may not. until the original poster or his brother in law says more all we know is that kid is 18 and has between 1000 and 1500 dollars.
tom_alan
01-14-2009, 00:04
This kind of sounds like the start of a true to life book by Jon Krakauer ~ "Into The Wild". :eek: :eek: :eek:
I really hope not! :confused: :confused: :confused:
To elaborate, the only Southerner who can handle the cold really well is....Brett Favre.
Now THAT makes sense.:D
I'd wait til it's warm but that's just me.
Suck it up and hike in shorts in 0degF now and then.
Sleep in a 20degF in -20degF. That's acclimitization.
But I would take experience over acclimitization any day of the year.
While I personally think this is nuts :), it does remind me of a well-known young oriental man who was also a student at Michigan State when I attended. He was legend on campus because he would never wear more than a t-shirt and shorts. Year-round, any and all weather. He would walk to class, could be a 45 minute walk easily. Some days he may run, if it were snowing and blowing.
Obviously there is some merit to JAK's idea.
To each their own...
There is much to be said for being uncomfortable and unable to sleep when its -20F.
Like what?
For me, it would be, "what the **** did I do this for?"
budforester
01-14-2009, 10:56
What's a muldoon?
2 klicks south of a dummy