View Full Version : Number of comleted through hikes dropped in 2008
hopefulhiker
01-12-2009, 23:10
It seems that while the number of completed dropped last year.
Total hike completions recorded: 625 597 604 584 554 513 500
Last year about 350 hikers reported finishing.. I wonder if this was due to the drought....
I doubt that all the reports are in yet.
Lone Wolf
01-13-2009, 01:39
Last year about 350 hikers reported finishing.. I wonder if this was due to the drought....
...due to hikers being more honest
Johnny Thunder
01-13-2009, 09:58
...due to hikers being more honest
I agree...My number at the Birches was way above 360 and that was Sept 30th.
It's easy to argue that the oppressive heat (not as much a drought) in VA and the endless rain in Vermont would end people's hikes, but, I didn't see many other hikers quit except for those periods. Now, the total number of Southbounders might be lower since many of them walked in rain almost everyday between Katahdin and Killington.
Low Impact
01-13-2009, 10:07
...due to hikers being more honest
I'm with you 100% on this one Lone Wolf.
...due to hikers being more honest
I suspect that the debate on White Blaze from time to time triggered that new found honesty.
Despite the cynics, words occasionally do change minds. I know the ancient debate on Trailplace changed my mind. I was tempted to register my '93 walk, just to let some of the people I had met on the trail know I had reached Katahdin. The words of Wingfoot and others convinced me otherwise.
Weary
cowboy nichols
01-13-2009, 12:12
I feel no need to report trails I've hiked nor miles I've covered. Can't imagine anyone caring. Just my 2 cents,
TrippinBTM
01-13-2009, 12:42
Of course, if fewer people this year attempted to do a thru hike, then the numbers would naturally be down. I'd be more interested in seeing a percentage, which of course would be very hard to come by since not everyone signs in.
Jack Tarlin
01-13-2009, 14:58
I don't think it has anything to do with honesty.
I think people are thinking long and hard before quitting jobs or careers, and evn more importantly, I think folks are looking at other outdoor adventures, including other Trails. We tend to get sort of centered here on one thing, which is understandable, but there are indeed other hiking adventures out there and every year, people that might have thru-hiked the A.T. at one point now find themselves very happily hiking somewhere else.
It seems that while the number of completed dropped last year.
Total hike completions recorded: 625 597 604 584 554 513 500
Last year about 350 hikers reported finishing.. I wonder if this was due to the drought....
apples and oranges. 428 total finished so far last year. This is the number to compare to the 500, 513, 544....... 347 is the total of SOBOs, NOBOs and flip flops.
Historical figures for these three groups:
2007: 379
2006: 406
2005: 444
2004: 482
Things have gone down continually but it is not as bad as 350 vs 500. Its still early though. Some SOBOs are still out and some just got home so have not filed yet.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851143/k.C36D/2000Milers_Facts_and_Statistics.htm
jersey joe
01-13-2009, 15:47
Very possible it is the "Bill Bryson" factor wearing off...
Cookerhiker
01-13-2009, 16:19
I suspect that the debate on White Blaze from time to time triggered that new found honesty.
Despite the cynics, words occasionally do change minds. I know the ancient debate on Trailplace changed my mind. I was tempted to register my '93 walk, just to let some of the people I had met on the trail know I had reached Katahdin. The words of Wingfoot and others convinced me otherwise.
Weary
Only assuming that a significant number of thru- and would-be thru-hikers spend appreciable on WhiteBlaze or even know what WhatBlaze is. Even approaching 20,000 members, I still suspect WB is not that familiar to many LD hikers. This may not be scientific but when I talk to thrus either along my maintenance section in SNP or elsewhere on the Trail, most have never heard of WB.
In my town, I talked to a young guy this past weekend who's planning an '09 thruhike - he had never heard of WB. Thanks to me, now he has! There's another guy in town who I've met at the fitness center and thruhiked. He's on TrailJournals but never goes on WB. He and I met after discovering we lived in the same town when we each signed Wildcat's Guestbook on TJ. Wildcat? Avid triple-crown hiker but he's never on WB.
Then again, we know there are lurkers in WB so who knows? But I wouldn't give WB discussions too much credit.
Jack Tarlin
01-13-2009, 16:24
Nor should we give too much credit to Bill Bryson.
He hiked in the spring and summer of '96; his book was published in May of 1998. That was awhile ago.
Whatever the "Bryson effect" may have been on the Trail, it wore off long ago.
Nor should we give too much credit to Bill Bryson.
He hiked in the spring and summer of '96; his book was published in May of 1998. That was awhile ago.
Whatever the "Bryson effect" may have been on the Trail, it wore off long ago.It takes some time for some folks to get around to reading it.I first heard about and read it in 2004. Not everybody gets around to reading it right off the bat or are the able to immediately drop anything and go thru-hike so I wouldn't throw out the "bryson effect" quite yet.
On Amazon, AWITW is;
#1 in Books > Outdoors & Nature > Travel > Adventure
#1 in Books > Travel > United States > Regions > Northeast > New England
#1 in Books > Outdoors & Nature > Hiking & Camping > Excursion Guides
I have met a couple of people just recently who read the book and plan to thru-hike as a result. Certainly, the effect is significantly diminished from 2000 when I hiked.
Blue Jay
01-13-2009, 17:31
Those numbers may be complete fiction since many people have no interest in being counted since there is little point..
What about the hotly debated scare of making a movie of Bill Brysons book?
Probably never happen.
I feel no need to report trails I've hiked nor miles I've covered. Can't imagine anyone caring. Just my 2 cents,
I imagine though that if the popularity of the trail rises, it's a better reason to get more federal grants and more conservational recognition.
then again, there is also the real world.
ArDiAcMe
01-13-2009, 18:24
Nor should we give too much credit to Bill Bryson.
He hiked in the spring and summer of '96; his book was published in May of 1998. That was awhile ago.
Whatever the "Bryson effect" may have been on the Trail, it wore off long ago.
I am planning an 09 Thru Hike starting mid March. Though I can't give Mr. Bryson all the credit for this decision (simply experiencing bits and pieces of the trail, and a 1/4 life crisis accounted for the majority of the planned hike), it was reading his book several years ago as a 16 year old that got the idea initially into my head. Without that initial exposure I can not honestly say I would be posting on this website today.
jersey joe
01-13-2009, 18:34
Nor should we give too much credit to Bill Bryson.
He hiked in the spring and summer of '96; his book was published in May of 1998. That was awhile ago.
Whatever the "Bryson effect" may have been on the Trail, it wore off long ago.
Jack, I disagree and think it is still wearing off...consider a longer history of AT completers...
1996 - 406
1997 - 417
1998 - 402 (Book Released)
1999 - 552
2000 - 619
2001 - 603
2002 - 536
2004 - 482
2005 - 444
2006 - 406
2007 - 379
max patch
01-13-2009, 18:44
Brysons impact on the trail is pretty much over.
Thru hikes will be down next year. People with good jobs and/or people with family obligations aren't going to quit to take a 6 month vacation and then look for work when they get back. At least those who read the business section won't.
Rockhound
01-13-2009, 18:57
:bananaCan't wait until the Robert Redford movie comes out,(if it ever does) There will be thousands of people that will have claimed to walk the trail. Not that they will have. I'm just gonna start selling certificates on EBAY. The complete package. I'll photo shop some pictures to show em' hiking, send em' some smelly worn out boots, I'll even try to bottle that wonderful hiker scent. Packages will start at $79.99.
It seems that while the number of completed dropped last year.
Total hike completions recorded: 625 597 604 584 554 513 500
Last year about 350 hikers reported finishing.. I wonder if this was due to the drought....
That was the talk up in Maine when I did the "Hundred Mile - whatever:D"
BUT- just before I headed out of Monson, a good number of folks quit because of too MUCH rain (or so I was told) in September.
I guess it wasn't what they had expected............
I feel no need to report trails I've hiked nor miles I've covered. Can't imagine anyone caring. Just my 2 cents,
If a person brags about his accomplishments, few care. If he/she wishes to share his/her successes and failures to help others, they usually care, if for no other reason than it may aid their own pursuit of happiness. Just don't hold your breath waiting for a "thank you". ;) (Not that it should be your reason for helping anyhow).
Don't forget, the amount of people who backpack has declined quite a bit in the past decade. I suspect with less people backpacking, less people are going to attempt to hike the AT as well.
It is not the only reason, but I think it is a reason.
joshua5878
01-13-2009, 21:09
Brysons impact on the trail is pretty much over.
Thru hikes will be down next year. People with good jobs and/or people with family obligations aren't going to quit to take a 6 month vacation and then look for work when they get back. At least those who read the business section won't.
I bought his book @ some airport in 2002. I am packed up and ready to go in around a month from now, from Springer, with my brother. I WILL make it to MAINE. Since 2002 I have read, studied etc....
His book inspired me to go further in my "due diligence" about the AT. Yes I still have his book on my IPOD and yes I still listen to it.
Would I be going this year if he hadn't written his book. I doubt it.
OK, Let me have it!!!
I guess there is one in every crowd... this time it's me ..... hadn't heard of the book....what's it about? And do you know the all time total of those who have completed a thru? Getting smarter by the second...I hope....haha!
MDhiker1967
01-13-2009, 21:56
Does anyone have stats on the age ranges of those completing thru's?
I didn't care for the book but I'm another one that thinks the Bryson effect has been huge. I'm confident it was a primary reason for the spike in thru-hikers, and that its diminishing affects are a major factor for the number of attempts decreasing.
The popular media raises awareness and awareness raises interest. I just watched Band of Brothers again and some of those guys joined the Paratroops specifically because of some magazine article. There's little doubt that the number of applicants to become fighter pilots spiked shortly after the release of Top Gun.
Does anyone have stats on the age ranges of those completing thru's?
not exactly what you might be looking for, but interesting nonetheless ...
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851151/k.4C05/Noteworthy_2000Milers.htm
jersey joe
01-13-2009, 22:31
I guess there is one in every crowd... this time it's me ..... hadn't heard of the book....what's it about? And do you know the all time total of those who have completed a thru? Getting smarter by the second...I hope....haha!
The book is about a guy and his out of shape friend who unsuccessfully attempt to thru hike the AT. It was a best seller.
As for total numbers...The ATC has recorded 9,529 2k milers through 2006. Though, that number may include section hikers.
2,000 miler facts and stats page
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851143/k.C36D/2000Milers_Facts_and_Statistics.htm
The book is about a guy and his out of shape friend who unsuccessfully attempt to thru hike the AT. It was a best seller.
As for total numbers...The ATC has recorded 9,529 2k milers through 2006. Though, that number may include section hikers.
10,543 according to ATC link posted previously
jersey joe
01-13-2009, 22:39
Yes, i see...the number I posted was only through 2006.
Cookerhiker
01-13-2009, 22:54
....As for total numbers...The ATC has recorded 9,529 2k milers through 2006. Though, that number may include section hikers.
I don't believe the ATC differentiates or tracks thruhikers vs. section hikers at all.
I don't believe the ATC differentiates or tracks thruhikers vs. section hikers at all.yeah, they keep track of as much as they can.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851143/k.C36D/2000Milers_Facts_and_Statistics.htm
I suspect that as the economy gets worse, less people will want to thru-hike.
People with good jobs won't want to quit because they are afraid they won't get a comparable job when they get back, an they may be right about that.
Also, more people may now have lower paying jobs and won't be able to save up as much money as they would have if the economy was doing better.
Panzer
Jack, I disagree and think it is still wearing off...consider a longer history of AT completers...
If the Bryson-inspired hikers are like the author, we should look at the number who started, then failed to complete half of the miles, and then call themselves "having hiked the AT."
Just saying...
:-?
nitewalker
01-14-2009, 08:16
one of the thoughts i have on this is that todays world is geared towards starting and not finishing. todays youth are all starters and seem to not be finishers. all too many times i see projects started by some folks and all of a sudden they stop and never get finished. alot of people get high props for starting something and not finishing. if u start something it should be finished period then you get your props.. maybe we need to retrain the country to become finishers and not just starters. its kinda like the athletes who are spoiled and catered to from day one. if it doesnt go their way its time to disrupt and quit the team...T.O., B PARCELLS are to good examples of quiters and spoiled brats...blah, blah, blah
Colin Fletcher was my great influence to continue hiking. I was also born in Baie Comeau, Quebec; a small town on the north shore of the Saint Lawrence River. There were trails from my back yard to school or into town or ones that went on for miles and miles. I recall as a small child spending most of my time playing in the woods and being transfixed with the beauty and magic of everything around me. There is a feeling in my belly I have never lost from that.
TrippinBTM
01-14-2009, 09:46
As Panzer said, a lot of people who otherwise would try to hike won't be able to afford to hike with the economy as it is. And of course many won't want to quit a job if they aren't certain of finding one when they finish.
But then again, if they lost their job and have few options, they may end up on the trail, due to suddenly having the time for it. Kind of like "well, got fired, have nothing else better to do. I think I'll go hiking."
For the most part, people who are motivated by money won't just drop out of the work force and start hiking the trail unless they have some major life change like the death of a loved one, a divorce, or something else. Folks who aren't motivated by money will always attempt these sorts of endeavors.
That's a generalization, but I find it pretty true, I have met 100s of folks who have always dreamed of hiking the trail, and 99% of them will never take that first step because they were taught that they are here to work and make money. To do otherwise runs counter to the way they are wired.
jersey joe
01-14-2009, 09:56
I agree Mowgli, most people can't seem to make the leap and drop out of the work force to start a long hike. Contrary to what Panzer said, I think MORE people will attempt thru hikes because of the bad economy and lay offs. Getting laid off is how I was able to "find the time" to do my thru hike.
Well, I agree with the part about getting laid off.
If I get laid off, it would probable take me 6 months or a year to find another job. I have little prospects of getting another job if I lose this one. I'm doing my best to hold onto it. That being said, if I do get laid off I may do a section hike, 2 or 3 months or so. But probable not attempt the whole trail.
I'm not going to quit this job just to go hiking in large part because I'm already living my real dream, which is to live here in this house with my wife.
Panzer
I'm not going to quit this job just to go hiking in large part because I'm already living my real dream, which is to live here in this house with my wife.
Panzer
Simplicity at it's finest!!
I think that the lower number of thru hikers for 2008 is a little bit due to all of the things that have already been mentioned. I would add to that list the super high price of gas/transportation in 2008 . It simply cost a WHOLE lot more just to get to the AT in 2008. For some folks that alone would be a budget buster. The high price of gas in 2008 (and parts of 2007) also probably cut into people's ability to save up for the trip.
It will be REALLY interesting to see the 2009 numbers. We will still be suffering from all of the things mentioned for 2008--but feeling the effects even more in 2009. Many retirees hike the AT. Currently, most retirement funds and savings accounts are in the toilet. That may cause some retirees to think twice about thru hiking. On the other hand, all of the layoffs and an overall crappy job market might cause some working age people (especially single/no kids) to say: "I am out of work anyway and my house has been foreclosed, I might as well go take 'a walk in the woods' until things improve." (For them, it could actually be cheaper to live on the trail--no rent, no mortgage, no utilities etc.).
mtt37849
01-15-2009, 01:19
Well i see some ppl say that it don't matter don't keep count, they see no point.. Well my 2cents is that it does matter, not many ppl get to do a over 2k hike. Its a mild stone for some ppl and when i do mine i will be counted.
I am planning an 09 Thru Hike starting mid March. Though I can't give Mr. Bryson all the credit for this decision (simply experiencing bits and pieces of the trail, and a 1/4 life crisis accounted for the majority of the planned hike), it was reading his book several years ago as a 16 year old that got the idea initially into my head. Without that initial exposure I can not honestly say I would be posting on this website today.
Just don't expect the trail to much resemble Bill's description.
Lone Wolf
01-15-2009, 09:52
not now anyway. rainbow springs is gone for instance. bryson was dead on about that place
NCYankee
01-15-2009, 10:51
I think Bryson’s book and the desire to thru hike is an interesting discussion.
I know for myself I am unable at this point in life to take 5-6 months away from life to go hike from Georgia to Maine. I can make excuses all day long from my career, bills, debt, wife, nearing parenthood, ect. That being said, my goal is still to hike from GA to ME. I have essentially broken things down that between weekend trips, week long trips, and extended weekend trips I can complete the hike over the course of a decade (just about the time my kids can hopefully walk the last steps of ME with me).
Whether my plan works for everyone doesn’t really matter to me, it’s my hike and my goal to finish.
Getting back to Bryson’s book, I read it but that I read it during a period when I was reading everything I could get my hands on regarding the AT. I am actually a much bigger than of AWOL on the AT or various trail journals, but Bryson certainly has a wit to his writing. His approach to the hike was his hike, just as his approach to his book was his approach. I take it for what it was (although inexperienced people in the woods scare the heck out of me).
At this point I believe that the number of people attempting a thru will most likely stay consistent. I think that the culture we live in today where everyone believes that they will be rich or famous or where people document every moment of their lives for broadcast on the internet encourages the mass of society to not attempt to experience something as introspective as backpacking or wilderness living. I’m just as much of a techno freak and my blackberry is never more than 12” from my body (when it charges while I am asleep), but disconnecting from the world is not something that is as respected as a societal rite of passage as it was in previous years.
That suits me just fine… Crowded camp sites never made me very happy anyway.
A final comment regarding the potential for the Walk in the Woods movie… I work for a university and at least 5-6 times a week when I ask a potential student why they are interested in graduating with a degree in criminal justice they mention to me the TV show CSI, and I am 1 of 2000 counselors who interacts with students. People don’t read, even bestsellers, at the degree to which they consume television and cinema. A film version of the book, especially one that has mass market appeal, is just as much a major threat to the AT as environmental changes or political encroachments.
Then again, I’m just a section hiker, so what do I know :)
The number of thru-hikers in 2008 was higher than in 2007 (more starters, more in Harpers Ferry, more finishers). Our 2,000-miler stats page (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/2000milers)was just updated yesterday. You'll see the number of northbound completion reports for 2008 is only one behind 2007. Reports are still trickling in--some days we are still receiving one or two.
Laurie P.
ATC
Slo-go'en
01-15-2009, 12:46
I think what is really interesting about the 2000 mile stats page is the percentage of hikers who finish, which is running close to 30% in recent years. Lighter gear and better support along the trail are no doubt big factors in this. Even so, 50% of those who start still don't make it half way.
jersey joe
01-15-2009, 13:54
Even so, 50% of those who start still don't make it half way.
A lot of people realize just how "soft" they really are.
Jim Adams
01-15-2009, 19:01
As long as the retirees have the house paid off, I think that there may be more of them hiking. You can't stay home for 6 months as cheaply as you can hike.
If you are laid off and can collect unemployment, hiking IS the answer. Hiking is cheap and basically you get paid to hike.
Total numbers will never be accurate as many hikers don't report their completion to the ATC.
geek
I know that the rainfall for New Hampshire at least was way above average. It seemed to rain for part of almost every day in June and July (or was it July and August or all three months?!) in the Concord area and I suspect it was even worse up north. Don't know the situation further south. But folks most have tired of all the mud and high streams and just plain wet conditions.
David
Rain Man
01-15-2009, 19:45
Our 2,000-miler stats page (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/2000milers)was just updated yesterday. You'll see the number of northbound completion reports for 2008 is only one behind 2007.
Sorry, Laurie, but that photo of the hiker at the Katahdin sign, which is placed smack dab in the middle of the statistics makes it impossible to read a chunk of them. The photo of the two gals at the ATC HQ is over to the side out of the way, the way the other one should be.
Rain:sunMan
.
joshua5878
01-15-2009, 20:00
I think what is really interesting about the 2000 mile stats page is the percentage of hikers who finish, which is running close to 30% in recent years. Lighter gear and better support along the trail are no doubt big factors in this. Even so, 50% of those who start still don't make it half way.
Weather must be a big factor in dropout rate.
It has to be hard to go 1-2-3 weeks being wet! As opposed to Spring like conditions early on...
Thanks for pointing this out, Rainman. Laurie
TrippinBTM
01-16-2009, 11:07
I think what is really interesting about the 2000 mile stats page is the percentage of hikers who finish, which is running close to 30% in recent years. Lighter gear and better support along the trail are no doubt big factors in this. Even so, 50% of those who start still don't make it half way.
I bet that with the numbers down in recent years of people even starting the attempt, The demographic is more skewed towards serious hikers than when Bryson's book was still getting a lot of exposure and more causal hikers turned out.
But I mean more than just the "Bryson effect;" it seems to me that there might be a sort of (albiet nebulous and vague) baseline of the amount of serious hikers that attempt it each year. A lot of the surplus above and beyond that core would be the more casual hikers.
But yeah, I'm sure better gear and more info (thank you internet/whiteblaze) are major factors as well. (still, there's something to be said about personality and determination. I had little support and cheap, heavy gear, but refused to quit).
Sorry, Laurie, but that photo of the hiker at the Katahdin sign, which is placed smack dab in the middle of the statistics makes it impossible to read a chunk of them. The photo of the two gals at the ATC HQ is over to the side out of the way, the way the other one should be.
Rain:sunMan
.
I clicked on and dragged right the photo. It popped back, but at reduced color.
Made the print readable.
It would be special if some one could add a "p" to the thread title.
It gives me problems when reading the title in new posts. Most unsettling.
Bare Bear
01-21-2009, 00:16
I am going to go re-read the Bryson book for the third time now.
Maybe someone should start a new thread about why those who started their thru-hike aborted it. Might get some interesting replys.
Lone Wolf
01-21-2009, 16:44
Maybe someone should start a new thread about why those who started their thru-hike aborted it. Might get some interesting replys.
cuz fantasy and reality ain't the same
cuz fantasy and reality ain't the same
Hmmmm.....? Good point.
Lone Wolf
01-21-2009, 16:53
lots of folks like to run but not wanna do a marathon
Jack Tarlin
01-21-2009, 16:56
Interesting thread.
And I seriously question that 30% completion figure.
Yes indeed, more and better Trail information; the existence of the Internet; more hiker facilities every year; more people making it thru the critcal first few weeks of a hike; and absolutely, lighter packweight, these are all factors that have resulted in more folks staying on the Trail longer, and more folks completing their hikes.
But the main reason we have such a high completion rate these days is that there are more people every year reporting or announcing a completed thru-hike who haven't actually hiked the Trail in its entirety.
Fifteen years ago, virtually NOBODY did this. It was really frowned on.
Nowadays, everybody does this.
The nasty little secret that everyone knows but nobody likes talking about is this: This vast majority of folks who've reported a completed thru-hike in recent years have actually skipped significant sections of the Trail, yet they have no qualms whatsoever in reporting to Harpers Ferry that they just hiked the entire A.T. It's like the crazy ninety-year old aunt that lives up in your attic. Everyone in the family is perfectly aware she's up there, but nobody likes to talk about it.
The inflated completion rates of recent years has more to do with a decrease in integrity than it does with a decrease in pack weight.
The actual completion rate on the A.T., i.e. the number of people who set out to hike the Appalachian Trail in its entirety and actually do so, wwell that figure is the same as it's always been: Well under 5 percent.
Rain Man
01-21-2009, 18:03
The inflated completion rates of recent years has more to do with a decrease in integrity than it does with a decrease in pack weight.
Might be so. I surely see threads on WB here about how to deceive the Park Service about being a thru-hiker through the GSMNP, or about how to mail order gear to illegally avoid paying sales tax, rationalizing sneaking dogs, alcohol, and drugs into hostels, and so forth.
Thankfully, that seems to be only a very small percentage and I think the large majority of backpackers are very honorable and trusty people with high levels of personal integrity, as in they do the right thing even when no one is watching or policing them.
But I agree that some few seem to "flaunt it" and that encourages others to think it's okay to do such unethical things. And that's the end of Western Civilization as we know it. Or at least, reliable statistics!
Rain:sunMan
.
rdsoxfan
01-21-2009, 18:36
From the looks of the reg. thru hikers for this yr, it appears the number will drop again.
Slo-go'en
01-21-2009, 18:49
This vast majority of folks who've reported a completed thru-hike in recent years have actually skipped significant sections of the Trail
Come on Jack, that's a rather bold statement to make with no way to prove it. Vast majority to me would mean like 70 or 80%. I don't buy that.
No doubt not everyone kissed every blaze along the way, more than a few skipped pointless pieces of trail to take a short cut in or out of town and a few even skipped significant sections, but I doubt they were the vast majority.
Interesting thread.
And I seriously question that 30% completion figure.
Yes indeed, more and better Trail information; the existence of the Internet; more hiker facilities every year; more people making it thru the critcal first few weeks of a hike; and absolutely, lighter packweight, these are all factors that have resulted in more folks staying on the Trail longer, and more folks completing their hikes.
But the main reason we have such a high completion rate these days is that there are more people every year reporting or announcing a completed thru-hike who haven't actually hiked the Trail in its entirety.
Fifteen years ago, virtually NOBODY did this. It was really frowned on.
Nowadays, everybody does this.
The nasty little secret that everyone knows but nobody likes talking about is this: This vast majority of folks who've reported a completed thru-hike in recent years have actually skipped significant sections of the Trail, yet they have no qualms whatsoever in reporting to Harpers Ferry that they just hiked the entire A.T. It's like the crazy ninety-year old aunt that lives up in your attic. Everyone in the family is perfectly aware she's up there, but nobody likes to talk about it.
The inflated completion rates of recent years has more to do with a decrease in integrity than it does with a decrease in pack weight.
The actual completion rate on the A.T., i.e. the number of people who set out to hike the Appalachian Trail in its entirety and actually do so, wwell that figure is the same as it's always been: Well under 5 percent.
What evidence do you have to back this up? I think the first group of reasons you cited are a lot more responsible in the completion spike than folks lying and cheating.
Throughout history societies will always have some liars and cheaters. However the type of person a 6 month walk in the woods attracts is generally not the charlatan type. I see all sorts of people in New York driving to the end of the exit ramp to avoid waiting in line, but this impatient disrespectful person generally sees no value in walking across the country in a long green tunnel.
Since the earliest thru-hikers people have been fabricating stories and skipping sections. The more people attempt, the more fibbing there will be, but I think the number is proportional.
More likely information on websites like this which basically tell you everything you need to know and more are the reason for higher completion. The AT, because of the internet, increased hostels and services, guidebooks and lightweight gear is esentially a paint by numbers adventure. It's still not easy, but there's a lot less head scratching and intuition then there was 10 or 20 years ago.
Sorry, Laurie, but that photo of the hiker at the Katahdin sign, which is placed smack dab in the middle of the statistics makes it impossible to read a chunk of them. The photo of the two gals at the ATC HQ is over to the side out of the way, the way the other one should be.
Rain:sunMan
.
I've tried it on three different browsers and the page looks fine.
I This vast majority of folks who've reported a completed thru-hike in recent years have actually skipped significant sections of the Trail, yet they have no qualms whatsoever in reporting to Harpers Ferry that they just hiked the entire A.T.
Jack wasn't it you the other day that said unless you have proof you shouldn't spread rumors? You have absolutely no idea if these people completed missed sections either before or after their thru-hike.
max patch
01-21-2009, 19:18
What Jack said is 100% accurate and anybody who has done a thru knows exactly what he is talking about. Quite frankly I'm shocked that at least 2 former thru hikers have challenged what Jack has said. Deep down in their hearts I'm sure they know Jack is right.
neighbor dave
01-21-2009, 19:29
Interesting thread.
And I seriously question that 30% completion figure.
Yes indeed, more and better Trail information; the existence of the Internet; more hiker facilities every year; more people making it thru the critcal first few weeks of a hike; and absolutely, lighter packweight, these are all factors that have resulted in more folks staying on the Trail longer, and more folks completing their hikes.
But the main reason we have such a high completion rate these days is that there are more people every year reporting or announcing a completed thru-hike who haven't actually hiked the Trail in its entirety.
Fifteen years ago, virtually NOBODY did this. It was really frowned on.
Nowadays, everybody does this.
The nasty little secret that everyone knows but nobody likes talking about is this: This vast majority of folks who've reported a completed thru-hike in recent years have actually skipped significant sections of the Trail, yet they have no qualms whatsoever in reporting to Harpers Ferry that they just hiked the entire A.T. It's like the crazy ninety-year old aunt that lives up in your attic. Everyone in the family is perfectly aware she's up there, but nobody likes to talk about it.
The inflated completion rates of recent years has more to do with a decrease in integrity than it does with a decrease in pack weight.
The actual completion rate on the A.T., i.e. the number of people who set out to hike the Appalachian Trail in its entirety and actually do so, wwell that figure is the same as it's always been: Well under 5 percent.
:-? if one was to hike down a blueblaze and take a car to the next road crossing it doesn't count??;):D:welcome
What Jack said is 100% accurate and anybody who has done a thru knows exactly what he is talking about. Quite frankly I'm shocked that at least 2 former thru hikers have challenged what Jack has said. Deep down in their hearts I'm sure they know Jack is right.
That less than 5% of folks actually hiked all of the trail? Maybe if your definition is put together by somebody who thinks you need to go in & out of the same shelter loop, or walk through blow downs, or walk every inch of every road crossing. In other words, find someone who has OCD and a superiority complex, and let them define what a thru-hike is.
No thanks.
BigFoot2002
01-21-2009, 19:35
Jack knows whats going on on the trail. Hostel owners on the northern part of the trail have mentioned it to me. I'm sure that people who provide shuttle services along the trail will concur. If you carry your pack past every white blaze today, be prepared to explain what "what your problem is" to a great many people.
max patch
01-21-2009, 19:37
That less than 5% of folks actually hiked all of the trail? Maybe if your definition is put together by somebody who thinks you need to go in & out of the same shelter loop, or walk through blow downs, or walk every inch of every road crossing. In other words, find someone who has OCD and a superiority complex, and let them define what a thru-hike is.
No thanks.
The ATC has clearly defined what constitutes a 2,000 miler.
And having OCD and a superiority complex isn't part of the definition.
You know better than that.
Lone Wolf
01-21-2009, 19:38
Jack knows whats going on on the trail.
oh puhleeze :rolleyes:
Jack Tarlin
01-21-2009, 19:39
Thanx, Max.
Sorry to rain on the parade, guys, but since you asked:
Those interested in knowing where my thoughts and reasoning come from, well, they come from here: I've probably spent as much time on the A.T. as a long-distance backpacker over the last 14 years as anyone else out there. This includes seven consecutive thru-hikes from 1997-2003 and several thousand miles since. During that time, I spent time with; interacted with; spoke with; obeserved; and most important of all, actually hiked with thousands of long-distance A.T. hikers.
And the simple truth is that very few of these people were absolute purists, i.e., very few were absolutely committed to hiking every mile of the Trail, and made sure that theuy actually did so. In point of fact, the vast majority of folks I met were NOT committed to this goal. They weren't interested in achieving it, not did it particularly bother them when they deviated from it.
Yet they nearly all reported in to Harpers Ferry that they did in fact hike the A.T. in its entirety.
So A-Train, Sly, and SloGoEn, sorry, but you're wrong. If you actually believe that the majority of folks who report completed thru-hikes actually achieved that goal, i.e. they hiked the Trail in its entirety, well I'm here to tell you that this is simply wrong.
As to those who asked me how I know this, well the answer is simple. This is what I heard, this is what I observed, this is what many people personally told me ABOUT THEIR OWN travels, and most important, this is what I personally witnessed.
SloGoEn, let's look at your post. I said that the vast majority of folks who've reported a completed thru-hike in recent years actually skipped significant sections of the Trail.
You took umbrage at this, calling it a "bold" statement that can't be proven, and that you're not buying.
Well, let's look at the alternative........are you saying that the "vast majority", i.e at least 70-80% of long-distance hikers are committed purists who make sure that they DON'T miss any of the Trail?
I sure hope you're not saying this, cuz sorry, if this is what you believe, you need to spend more time on the Trail. Cuz that's nonsense.
Fact is, very, very few folks actually walk every mile without at least some deviation.
Anyone who denies this is either delusional, running from the truth, or doesn't have the experience to accurately comment.
Don't get me wrong here......the whole purist/non-purist thing has been beaten to death. It's up to the individual what they want to do out there, and this is how it should be. You wanna hike the whole thing? Great. More power to you. You don't? You want to blue-blaze, take some side Trails, skip sections you've already done, or have no interest in? Well, that's great, too. More power to you. Hike where you like and like where you hike.
But anyone that actually believes that the majority of people in recent years who've reported completed thrus actually hiked the whole A.T. are either ill-informed, are guilty of wishful thinking, or in some cases, are perfectly aware of the actual facts, but are so uncomfortable about them that they find it easier to deny them.
Sorry, guys, but that's the way of it.
max patch
01-21-2009, 19:40
If you carry your pack past every white blaze today, be prepared to explain what "what your problem is" to a great many people.
Exactly. Somewhere along the way hiking past every white blaze changed from being an accepted part of a thru hike to being criticized as an "anal purist" or worse.
The ATC has clearly defined what constitutes a 2,000 miler.
And having OCD and a superiority complex isn't part of the definition.
You know better than that.
I don't actually. I have no idea how many uber-purists there are on the trail. And no one else does either. And frankly, I don't care.
I respect anyone that chooses to hike their own hike. But when folks start ascribing completion numbers by pulling them out of a hat, I'll respond.
Worldwide
01-21-2009, 19:44
Ask these people about their "Thru Hike" in '07
Are We There Yet ... didn't see him from Rangely to Monson
Pippy & Pittsburgh .... missed them in Shenandoah
The list is endless Yellow Blaze if you want just don't lie to everyone around you. For that matter don't lie to yourself!
Jack Tarlin
01-21-2009, 19:50
Mowgli:
With all due respect, you haven't thru-hiked in almost a decade.
Despite what you might want to think, or have others believe, my figures weren't merely pulled out of a hat.
But since you evidently have other ones, where did YOURS come from?
Despite what you might want to think, or have others believe, my figures weren't merely pulled out of a hat.So where did they come from?
Lone Wolf
01-21-2009, 19:54
Mowgli:
With all due respect, you haven't thru-hiked in almost a decade.
Despite what you might want to think, or have others believe, my figures weren't merely pulled out of a hat.
But since you evidently have other ones, where did YOURS come from?
he thru-hiked coming up on 9 years ago and your last one 6 years ago
With all due respect, you haven't thru-hiked in almost a decade.
Despite what you might want to think, or have others believe, my figures weren't merely pulled out of a hat.
But since you evidently have other ones, where did YOURS come from?
Please do tell where they did come from, along with your methodology for gathering them. That should be interesting.
PS: I didn't toss around any numbers, so I have nothing to provide to you. Sorry.
I don't actually. I have no idea how many uber-purists there are on the trail. And no one else does either. And frankly, I don't care.
I respect anyone that chooses to hike their own hike. But when folks start ascribing completion numbers by pulling them out of a hat, I'll respond.
One interesting comparison is between the number of hikers who report themselves as GA => ME thru hikers at the Kennebeck River, vs the number who submit their 2,000 milert application to the ATC.
Steve L. used to post his figure on line.
My conclusion is that many people who consider themselves to be thru hikers in deed and spirit don't bother to fill out the ATC's application.
This impacts the true completion rate, I think.
Jack Tarlin
01-21-2009, 20:15
Geez, I thought I made it pretty clear.
My comments come, by and large, from extensive and long-time personal contact and interaction with other hikers.
The very vast majority of whom did NOT make a point of walking every mile of the Trail, and had no problem admitting this simple truth.
My comments are based on what I've personally seen, in addition to what other hikers have told me about their own travels.
Most hikers skip something along the way.
Some skip a lot.
Funny how uncomfortable this makes some people. Nicholson had a point in "A Few Good Men."
Handling the truth makes some people edgy.
Oh, and Mowgli, I have to ask: Since, as you yourself just admitted, you have no figures or statistics to offer, then on what rational basis do you question or doubt anyone else's?
To quote you, you have "nothing to provide" here.
Thank you for acknowledging this.
Oh, and Mowgli, I have to ask: Since, as you yourself just admitted, you have no figures or statistics to offer, then on what rational basis do you question or doubt anyone else's?
To quote you, you have "nothing to provide" here.
Thank you for acknowledging this.
There's the superiority complex I referred to earlier. :D
Jack Tarlin
01-21-2009, 20:25
Not at all, Mowgli.
You make a prounouncement, a rather strong one.
You then say that when it comes to facts and statistics, you have nothing to provide.
So we're not talking "superiority complex" here, Mowgli.
What you evidently object to is that I merely quoted you as admitting you can't provide anything to buttress your opinion.
Which is a nice way of saying you can't remotely tell us where your thoughts come from, or on what they happen to be based.
You'be been corrected, Mowgli. It's not that big a deal, don't be so sensitive.
Unless, of course, you have some sort of inferiority complex. :D
No one's denying a lot thru-hikers fib their hikes or skip sections.
You made a claim saying that increased RECENT fibbing was altering the "completion" numbers, not proven things like the internet, lightweight gear and trail services.
I don't agree with it, thats all I'm saying.
People know exactly whatthey are getting themselves into now, where they didn't 10-15 years ago.
Jack Tarlin
01-21-2009, 20:32
True, A-Train.
They have a better idea of what they're doing; they have better info both before and during their hikes. In many cases, they absolutely have a better idea of what they've gotten themselves into.
My point, however, was that despite this knowledge, most of them still find ways to avoid hiking the whole Trail, and the number of these folks has gone up very sharply since the mid-nineties.
Knowing what you've signed on for doesn't necessarily guarantee that you'll close the deal.
As long as the retirees have the house paid off, I think that there may be more of them hiking. You can't stay home for 6 months as cheaply as you can hike.....
Well maybe. My wife still has to eat -- though I'll leave a full freezer, I suspect that she may not be a diligent in her shopping as I have been, lo ..., these many years. :)
Weary:-?
ofthearth
01-21-2009, 20:59
Sorry, Laurie, but that photo of the hiker at the Katahdin sign, which is placed smack dab in the middle of the statistics makes it impossible to read a chunk of them. The photo of the two gals at the ATC HQ is over to the side out of the way, the way the other one should be.
Rain:sunMan
.
Rain Man took a pic of the stats. See if this works for you.
Rain Man
01-22-2009, 00:40
I've tried it on three different browsers and the page looks fine.
Well, a day late and a dollar short. ~wink~ They fixed it right away.
Rain:sunMan
.
buzzamania
01-22-2009, 01:13
I think the economy as a whole as stated above is the number 1 reason for a decline. College grads in the 90's and even early in this decade all thought they had 60k/year jobs waiting for them after they got back from their thru hikes. Today's grads likely have a much more realistic view of the world. Not that planning a thru is irresponsible, it's just less feasible, especially now that mommy and daddy's nest egg just got cracked open and scrambled. I almost had to cancel my little week long section hike in GA for later this summer. Times are tough.
If you spend some time reading trailjournals, it becomes obvious a lot of folks are lying to ATC. Some folks skip parts of the trail and brag that they can still get a patch. Leaving Damascus on a different trail and skipping parts in the whites seem to be the mosy popular. I think they cut out Mt Washington in the whites. The amount of people writing about skipping and claiming has went up reacently. I get my figures from reading trailjournals.
Clyde
Lone Wolf
01-22-2009, 17:58
If you spend some time reading trailjournals, it becomes obvious a lot of folks are lying to ATC. Some folks skip parts of the trail and brag that they can still get a patch. Leaving Damascus on a different trail and skipping parts in the whites seem to be the mosy popular. I think they cut out Mt Washington in the whites. The amount of people writing about skipping and claiming has went up reacently. I get my figures from reading trailjournals.
Clyde
i'd say half that leave damascus take the creeper. good for them :)
I think the economy as a whole as stated above is the number 1 reason for a decline. College grads in the 90's and even early in this decade all thought they had 60k/year jobs waiting for them after they got back from their thru hikes. Today's grads likely have a much more realistic view of the world.
I agree. I saw that a lot when I was trying to hire employees back then.
One other thing is the decrease in outdoor activity caused by video games. When I was a kid, we would be outdoors after school and during the summer. Hiking, backpacking, skiing and shooting were the favorite things to do. Now many kids stay indoors and play with the Playstation. I even know some people in their 20's that are still parked in front of the video game on weekends, rather than enjoying the great outdoors.
Originally Posted by max patch http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=762796#post762796)
The ATC has clearly defined what constitutes a 2,000 miler.
And having OCD and a superiority complex isn't part of the definition.
You know better than that.
What exactly is the atc's definition.
johnnybgood
01-22-2009, 18:45
i'd say half that leave damascus take the creeper. good for them :)
Geez...AT THAT DIFFICULT ?...GO HOME
Direct for the ATC via Laurie Potteiger. This should shut people up...but it won't. ;)
ATC is not wedded to the current, exact wording of the 2,000-miler recognition guidelines. No one at ATC has any huge investment in keeping it as it is. In fact, it has been tweaked a few times even over the last decade--tightened and loosened in at attempt to find the right balance. Prior to that, I simply don't know whether there were actually clear, written guidelines, or just a verbal understanding, but as I stated before, attitudes and processes related to recognizing 2,000-milers have changed over the years.
ATC has several goals in the 2,000-miler recognition program:
- Capturing end-to-end usage of the A.T. (True, there may not be a lot of thru-hikers, but they can have significant impacts when bunched together).
- Capturing trends in those statistics and statistics about the hikers themselves. There is a tremendous appetite from the public, media, and researchers about thru-hikers. The 2,000-miler database allows us to answer inquiries about them.
- Strengthing our connection with this group of hikers who knows our physical trail from Georgia to Maine better than anyone and is among its most passionate supporters.
- Honoring A.T. traditions.
- Receiving ongoing feedback about trail issues and the trail experience. In the process, we sometimes get wonderful quotes about the A.T.
We want to recognize those who have hiked end to end, although it is not important to us that a hiker passes virtually every one of the 80,000-something blazes. What kind of experience would it be if a hiker was consumed with being "legit" with every step? That's never been part of ATC's view of what the A.T. is for, and it can (although doesn't necessarily) detract from a hiker's ability to really enjoy what's around them. Most at ATC don't view a hiker taking a blue-blazed trail as any great sin. In fact, we'd want someone to choose a blue-blaze if their safety were threatened and an alternate route provided greater safety. Taking a blue-blazed trail because it was more scenic or shorter? There hasn't been much discussion about that, but I know some long-time staff members who feel it's not a big deal. Of course, many blue-blazed and alternate routes were once the A.T.
The biggest question is outright skipping of sections. Skipping a mile or two here or there is not a big deal. On the other hand, if you tell us you did the "aqua blaze," or skipped the whole state of Maryland, we'll return or hold your application and ask you to go back and finish the section if you want to be recognized. It only seems fair to all the others who have come before. But if it's something in between, that's the hardest. There are some applications that end up being a judgment call, which does seem arbitrary. On the other hand, it seems counter to the whole tradition to put out some number and tell people it was okay to skip, say, 21.75 miles, but not 22.
If anyone can come up with a new definition that meets ATC's goals and better suits the long-distance hiker community, more power to them. We'd be delighted to consider it.
By the way, volunteers do more than 90% of the work involved in the recognition program.
Laurie Potteiger
ATC
Lone Wolf
01-22-2009, 18:46
Geez...AT THAT DIFFICULT ?...GO HOME
the whole AT is easy to me but the creeper trail is ten times prettier than the AT in that section. try it sometime
Jack Tarlin
01-22-2009, 18:51
Tenbeer:
If you look at the ATC's website (www.appalachiantrail.org), there's a FAQ section where it clearly says they DON'T have a definition for "thru-hiking" as they instead choose to use the term "2000-miler."
They further state that in their view, a 2000-miler is someone who has hiked the Trail in its entirety, and they further state that anyone who wishes to be listed in their records should have made an honest effort to walk the entire Trail.
By this definition, those who make the voluntary decision to skip certain sections of the Trail are not 2,000 milers.
It's not that complicated.
Direct for the ATC via Laurie Potteiger. This should shut people up...but it won't. ;)
ATC is not wedded to the current, exact wording of the 2,000-miler recognition guidelines. No one at ATC has any huge investment in keeping it as it is. In fact, it has been tweaked a few times even over the last decade--tightened and loosened in at attempt to find the right balance. Prior to that, I simply don't know whether there were actually clear, written guidelines, or just a verbal understanding, but as I stated before, attitudes and processes related to recognizing 2,000-milers have changed over the years.
ATC has several goals in the 2,000-miler recognition program:
- Capturing end-to-end usage of the A.T. (True, there may not be a lot of thru-hikers, but they can have significant impacts when bunched together).
- Capturing trends in those statistics and statistics about the hikers themselves. There is a tremendous appetite from the public, media, and researchers about thru-hikers. The 2,000-miler database allows us to answer inquiries about them.
- Strengthing our connection with this group of hikers who knows our physical trail from Georgia to Maine better than anyone and is among its most passionate supporters.
- Honoring A.T. traditions.
- Receiving ongoing feedback about trail issues and the trail experience. In the process, we sometimes get wonderful quotes about the A.T.
We want to recognize those who have hiked end to end, although it is not important to us that a hiker passes virtually every one of the 80,000-something blazes. What kind of experience would it be if a hiker was consumed with being "legit" with every step? That's never been part of ATC's view of what the A.T. is for, and it can (although doesn't necessarily) detract from a hiker's ability to really enjoy what's around them. Most at ATC don't view a hiker taking a blue-blazed trail as any great sin. In fact, we'd want someone to choose a blue-blaze if their safety were threatened and an alternate route provided greater safety. Taking a blue-blazed trail because it was more scenic or shorter? There hasn't been much discussion about that, but I know some long-time staff members who feel it's not a big deal. Of course, many blue-blazed and alternate routes were once the A.T.
The biggest question is outright skipping of sections. Skipping a mile or two here or there is not a big deal. On the other hand, if you tell us you did the "aqua blaze," or skipped the whole state of Maryland, we'll return or hold your application and ask you to go back and finish the section if you want to be recognized. It only seems fair to all the others who have come before. But if it's something in between, that's the hardest. There are some applications that end up being a judgment call, which does seem arbitrary. On the other hand, it seems counter to the whole tradition to put out some number and tell people it was okay to skip, say, 21.75 miles, but not 22.
If anyone can come up with a new definition that meets ATC's goals and better suits the long-distance hiker community, more power to them. We'd be delighted to consider it.
By the way, volunteers do more than 90% of the work involved in the recognition program.
Laurie Potteiger
ATC
Thank you for the definition.
johnnybgood
01-22-2009, 19:18
the whole AT is easy to me but the creeper trail is ten times prettier than the AT in that section. try it sometime
That may be true but thats like takin' your good looking sister to the prom............ It ain't right .:eek::eek:
That may be true but thats like takin' your good looking sister to the prom............ It ain't right .:eek::eek:
It can also be said that it ain't right that the white blazes miss some very scenic areas, including the creeper trail as LW notes. I thought it strange that the white blazes go "around" many of the peaks in the presidentials. I hiked over many of them instead as part of my section hiking experience this year. So, it is simply a matter of hiking your own hike. Blue works for some, white for others, yellow is well, yellow.
I thought it strange that the white blazes go "around" many of the peaks in the presidentials.
Did you get a better view by going over the summit of those mountains?
No?
Then why did you go up them?
Even horses were smart enough to take the AT (then the Crawford Path). :rolleyes:
On the other hand, did you skirt around Mount Height just north of Carter Dome? The white blazes do go over the top of that one, and afford on of the best view anywhere of the Presidential. I think a lot of hikers miss that one.
Did you get a better view by going over the summit of those mountains?
No?
Then why did you go up them?
Even horses were smart enough to take the AT (then the Crawford Path). :rolleyes:
On the other hand, did you skirt around Mount Height just north of Carter Dome? The white blazes do go over the top of that one, and afford on of the best view anywhere of the Presidential. I think a lot of hikers miss that one.
For starters, never said I thru-hiked or did the whole trail. I have sectioned NY-NH and took the blue blazes over the presidential peaks south of Washington on a clear 90-mile visibility day. Next day heading north of Mt. Wash. it clouded up after Clay and we went back to hiking the white blazes. I enjoyed every minute of climbing the peaks and seeing 360 degree views.
Secondly, you snipped the piece where I said people need to hike their own hike, some like blue, some like white... what about you?
For starters, never said I thru-hiked or did the whole trail. I have sectioned NY-NH and took the blue blazes over the presidential peaks south of Washington on a clear 90-mile visibility day. Next day heading north of Mt. Wash. it clouded up after Clay and we went back to hiking the white blazes. I enjoyed every minute of climbing the peaks and seeing 360 degree views.
Secondly, you snipped the piece where I said people need to hike their own hike, some like blue, some like white... what about you?
I like it deep fried.
Sorry to offend, not my intent.
Perhaps I should have simply shared that the reason the AT does not pass over all the summits in the White Mountains of NH is historical. The Trail follows the old bridle trail, that was known as Crawford Path. You can see evidence of some of the construction in the treadway. They bolted things to the trail to help the horses get purchase on the rocks.
Speaking for myself (and only myself) the fact that the AT doesn't go over all the Presidential Summits is not as great a failing as one might think. Why? Because you are already above treeline, and the views really don't change that much whichever trail you decide to take. Its all good.
As an aside, one easy to miss summit north of the Presidentials is Mount Height. Given all the grandeur one passes to get you to that point it would be easy to pass by. Just saying its one of my favorites, that's all.
Cheers.
jersey joe
01-22-2009, 21:22
Fact is, very, very few folks actually walk every mile without at least some deviation.
This is quite true in my experience. I recall being in the minority in 02' when I expressed a desire to hike past every blaze and go back to where I got off at times. I wouldn't say that this is any more true in the past few years though.
... Today's grads likely have a much more realistic view of the world. Not that planning a thru is irresponsible, it's just less feasible, especially now that mommy and daddy's nest egg just got cracked open and scrambled. ...
If mommy and daddy just lost 30 or 40% of their nest egg in the stock market collapse, I can see why they might urge their 20 something children to look for work instead of going hiking. Its fear. There's getting to be a general climate of fear in this country. And I've heard that the worst is still to come. Maybe if times were better parents would have more confidence and urge their children to "follow their dreams". But in this market, you have to be realistic. Lets hope things get better by next year.
Panzer
2006 might not have had the highest quantity of hikers, but it sure as hell had the highest quality. Right, Marta?
2006 might not have had the highest quantity of hikers, but it sure as hell had the highest quality. Right, Marta?
I can't speak for our quality, but it sure had the good, the bad, and the ugly, and everyone in between. (And, no, I'm not going to name names and say which adjective describes whom.:eek:)
If mommy and daddy just lost 30 or 40% of their nest egg in the stock market collapse, I can see why they might urge their 20 something children to look for work instead of going hiking. Its fear. There's getting to be a general climate of fear in this country. And I've heard that the worst is still to come. Maybe if times were better parents would have more confidence and urge their children to "follow their dreams". But in this market, you have to be realistic. Lets hope things get better by next year.
Panzer
My Dad (who was as financially responsible as they come) had a different kind of advise way back when for his potentially like-minded spawn.
He observed that the experiences of travel and hiking adventures would be something that no one could ever take away.
He was right. What other "investment" can guarantee such a return.