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JAK
01-15-2009, 15:15
Our small family has been talking about getting a dog. My wife is hypo-allergenic, only day-hikes, and would also prefer something small. I go on longer trips, with my daughter, and would like to take the dog along. I would like a dog that could do 20km days in spring/summer/fall, and also short trips but not long or fast trips in winter. Looking at some sort of poodle mix, but wondering how long the legs need to be, and also how big the dog needs to be for winter?

Also wondering how long a dog can be left alone. Is 7 hours a day 5 days a week too long? Would going home for 30 minutes to an hour at lunch be enough? Does having 2 small dogs vs 1 help, or make things worse? Mostly I'm curious about good breed choice, as we would wait until we are ready if our lifestyle is unsuitable.

Looking at animals like Yorkshire or West Island Terriers, Miniature but not Standard or Toy Poodle, also Terrier-Poodle mixes.
Are there other breeds I'm missing, that are hypo-allergenic?

mister krabs
01-15-2009, 15:27
Some good info from another site found when googleing hypoallergenic dogs.

Rather than asking which dog breed is hypoallergenic, we would rather ask “which dog breed is hypoallergenic for you?” The fact is, every individual is different and each person has a unique allergic threshold; this makes it impossible to generalize about hypoallergenic dog breeds for the general population.
We suggest that if you are attracted to one of the recommended breeds below, find a breeder and spend some time at the breeder’s place of business. While there, remain cognizant of how you are feeling; are your usual allergic symptoms acting-up? This is the true pet allergy test; how you are feeling while visiting the breed you’re interested in!


I'm partial to wirehaired fox terriers myself, having grown up with an airedale and now having a rat terrier mix . They're supposed to be somewhat less allergen-producing. I think any dog will have problems with snow up to it's chest, so a bit taller is probably better.

JAK
01-15-2009, 15:29
lol
My wife probably is hypo-allergenic, but she is also allergic to most dogs,
so we would be looking for a hypo-allergenic dog.

JAK
01-15-2009, 15:35
Some good info from another site found when googleing hypoallergenic dogs.

Rather than asking which dog breed is hypoallergenic, we would rather ask “which dog breed is hypoallergenic for you?” The fact is, every individual is different and each person has a unique allergic threshold; this makes it impossible to generalize about hypoallergenic dog breeds for the general population.
We suggest that if you are attracted to one of the recommended breeds below, find a breeder and spend some time at the breeder’s place of business. While there, remain cognizant of how you are feeling; are your usual allergic symptoms acting-up? This is the true pet allergy test; how you are feeling while visiting the breed you’re interested in!


I'm partial to wirehaired fox terriers myself, having grown up with an airedale and now having a rat terrier mix . They're supposed to be somewhat less allergen-producing. I think any dog will have problems with snow up to it's chest, so a bit taller is probably better.Thanks for that good advice.
We've been testing my wife out with some local dogs we see, and see what breeders are in the region. Not all that clear what she is allergic too, or how bad, so we will do some more testing. From what I've just googled, poodle-mixes can be sketchy allergy wise, so a plain old poodle might be better. She likes them small, but I would need something bigger than a teacup, as I drink alot of tea when I hike and wouldn't want to choke on him.

Mother's Finest
01-15-2009, 15:43
I am very curious about this subject. I am highly allergic to dogs and cats, and have been around supposed non-allergenic dogs that had me sneezing and wheezing badly.

I have never been around a dog or cat that did not make me react, I have never considered the severity from breed to breed.

peace
mf

JAK
01-15-2009, 17:15
My wife is allergic to many things, mostly trees and pollen, latex, and dogs and cats. Not severely life threatening, but serious enough to take benadril and stuff. Poodles are supposed to be the best because they apparently don't produce dander, but I've always been somewhat sceptical, because they are dogs, with fur, and skin. It must be a matter of degree. Bigger dogs that shed more must be worse. Also I can see how some fur and dead skin might be worse than others because of its chemical makeup, but poodles like any other dog must shed something right? Then again, people are mammals, and she isn't allergic to hairy people. It must be something in the dander, and there is apparently some variation among breeds of the same species, with poodles apparently being known for being less allergenic.

Interesting poodles are a hunting breed, from Russia I understant, so I don't understand why they are all that different. Perhaps they were bred for the type of fur they have, so it won't get tangled in brush, and the same adaptation that produced that effect made them hypo-allergenic. Perhaps its only the smaller poodles, developed from standard poodles, that are hypoallergenic. Not sure.

Phreak
01-15-2009, 17:17
I'm allergic to dogs but simply deal with it with over-the-counter meds. Well worth the runny nose and itchy eyes to have their companionship.

Ladytrekker
01-15-2009, 17:29
Although all are not small a good dog for this would be a greyhound. I do believe there is a miniature breed, but they do not shed and have incredible agility stamina, and speed, and very personable.

JAK
01-15-2009, 17:30
I'm allergic to dogs but simply deal with it with over-the-counter meds. Well worth the runny nose and itchy eyes to have their companionship.Have you noticed much difference between breeds,
or the size of the dog, or the ammount of hair, or does a little set you off the same as alot?

GMTMinusFive
01-15-2009, 17:31
One of the best attributes of the Bichon Frise breed is the fact that it's hypo-allergenic. There's a bit of variation in the breed, though. Our female is stocky, stoic, and has a wide stance. Our male is skinny, excitable, and energetic. I would have been more likely to take him on the trail than her when they were younger. (They're 14 YO now.) Both bark at the doorbell, which makes for a bit of security, but are otherwise peaceful and very good-natured. You might want to talk to a breeder and see what they think about taking them on the trail.

Tilly
01-15-2009, 17:33
Sorry but there is no such thing as a NON allergenic dog.

Especially if your wife is allergic to everything.

What people are usually allergic to is not pet fur but their dander, which all dogs will have regardless of their "hypoallergenicity."

JAK
01-15-2009, 17:33
Although all are not small a good dog for this would be a greyhound. I do believe there is a miniature breed, but they do not shed and have incredible agility stamina, and speed, and very personable.
I have seen whippets, which are like small greyhounds. Unfortunately I think I need a hairy dog, for winter. Not sure.

JAK
01-15-2009, 17:35
Sorry but there is no such thing as a NON allergenic dog.

Especially if your wife is allergic to everything.

What people are usually allergic to is not pet fur but their dander, which all dogs will have regardless of their "hypoallergenicity."I have heard that also, but we are looking for less allergenic, not non-allergenic.
I am curious though, if there is really such a thing as less allergenic.

leeki pole
01-15-2009, 17:39
My daughter, with bad allergies, does not have any problems with my Labradors (actually one is hers.) I keep them brushed and vacuum their coat twice a week and I think that helps.

Rouen
01-17-2009, 10:13
air filters usually help along with keeping the dogs clean and vaccuuming regularly.

WritinginCT
01-17-2009, 11:35
Besides varying breed to breed- it can vary dog to dog. My mother is highly sensitive (hives, triggers her asthma, etc) yet can play with and pet my fawn boxer but my brindle breaks her out in hives.

There are certainly breeds that are "better" for people with allergies, but nothing is guaranteed. If you go with a breeder make sure it's in your contract to be able to return the puppy if there is a problem (for a refund!).

And for the record (I used to volunteer with Greyhound Rescue)- there is a HUGE difference between Greyhounds and their smaller cousins, Italian Greyhounds (no pun intended). Iggys (Italian Greyhounds) are the cat of the dog world. They go 1000mph and get into everything and can jump and climb like nobody's business. Regular greyhounds are completely different. :) (and I don't think I would recommend either as a hiking/woods companion (walks in the woods, yes, hiking, no).

ChinMusic
01-17-2009, 11:50
Both my kids are allergic to pets so we got a Cockapoo. He is a LARGE Cockapoo at 31 pounds and turned out to be the perfect trail dog. The breed is well-tempered for the trail. He is smart, easy to train, does not shed, does not chase wildlife, stays close, is NEVER threatened by others, rarely barks, but cannot catch a Frisbee to save his life.

If you consider a Cockapoo make sure that the predicted final weight is over 20 with 30 being ideal. Some Cockapoos come in just over 10.

No, we don't use that over-sized pack for him anyore.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b186/ChinMusicIHSS/Mugsy/Deam_GroupPic.jpg

Here, with Crash Bang (NOBO 04)
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b186/ChinMusicIHSS/Mugsy/Pate7.jpg

Wise Old Owl
01-17-2009, 12:23
Sorry but there is no such thing as a NON allergenic dog.

Especially if your wife is allergic to everything.

What people are usually allergic to is not pet fur but their dander, which all dogs will have regardless of their "hypoallergenicity."

I have never had to say this on Wb before..

Sorry Tilly, you are wrong, or uninformed.

Here is the science.....

A tiny protein particle, the "Fel d 1" allergen, is found in the cat's skin flakes and saliva. This is deposited on the fur by the cat licking itself. It is shed into the air and can be deposited on the walls and clothing in the home. The cat allergen may remain airborne for months due to its small size. If breathed in by the allergy sufferer, it will lead to an allergic reaction within minutes. These allergic reactions usually include itchy eyes and nose, sneezing, asthma and itchy skin rashes.

In some studies it has been shown that over 80%of asthmatic children whose home contained a cat at the time of their birth and during the first year of their life, will develop a cat allergy. While less than 40% of asthmatic children whose homes contained either no cat or a cat after the first year of life will develop a cat allergy. The cat allergen is much more likely to cause sensitisation than that of the dog. The cat allergen can also cause allergies by being brought into homes where no cats live, for example on a person's clothing. This has been noted to occur quite commonly in the school class-room setting.

Dogs have a number of allergy-provoking protein particles in their saliva and skin scales. Dog allergy is less common than cat allergy, and the longer haired breeds which carry more skin scales see to provoke allergic reactions more frequently A dog's lick may set off a severe allergic response, as can breathing in the allergen particles.

Finally, when avoidance is not possible or can only be partly accomplished, medication may be needed. Oral antihistamines and topical sodium cromoglycate or corticosteroids can be used when nose and eye symptoms occur, while bronchodilators and inhaled sodium cromoglycate or corticosteroids can be used to control asthmatic symptoms. Hyposensitisation injections (immunotherapy) are of limited benefit for patients who wish to live or work with pets to which they are highly allergic.

Here is where it was discussed before.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38240

Furthermore, how can you post that when the news has been covering the Obama's choice of dog for the White House? Yes I know "no politics."

Wise Old Owl
01-17-2009, 12:44
Chin Music, that is the coolest picture of a Cockapoo and a great write up!

I bet he's popular with the ladies~ you left out his name.

Ranc0r
01-17-2009, 12:57
My wife says that Labra-Doodles are practically non-allergenic. She's allergic to mornings, air and most water, so she has a vested interest. :)

ChinMusic
01-17-2009, 13:11
Chin Music, that is the coolest picture of a Cockapoo and a great write up!

I bet he's popular with the ladies~ you left out his name.

Mugsy is quite popular with everyone I've hiked with. In fact, I get dirty looks when I DON'T bring him with me.

With my daughter
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b186/ChinMusicIHSS/Mugsy/Mugsy02062005.jpg

Hiding is the sands of Nordhouse Dunes, Michigan.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b186/ChinMusicIHSS/Mugsy/n3.jpg

Wise Old Owl
01-18-2009, 22:44
I have never had to say this on WB before..
Sorry Tilly, you are wrong, or uninformed.
Here is the science.....



I just want you all to know I really wrestled with myself before posting this and came back today to see if there was a reply. Honest I felt bad for posting it. I am sure there are different schools of thought on the subject. And I just reviewed your bio Tilly and see that you are a relatively new member and a Vet Lab Tech. I am sure you are surrounded with knowledgeable folk at work on the subject. I try very hard not to say things that upset people here at WB anymore. I don't pretend to know everything. Yea there is that trail name.... hmmm.

As a past amateur radio operator I used to hang out via radio with a group of young doctors (net) where they exchanged ideas, and one day they were talking for several hours about immunotherapy. Having been through the procedure twice at three years of injections (total six years age 10-13 then again in my twenties) I had something to add to the conversation. I had allergies bad as a kid, hayfever, hives, asthma you name it. We always had cats and or a dog in the house growing up. If I touched poison ivy it quickly covered 80 percent of my body. Today immotherapy is awesome and it works. I bearly have a reaction to poison ivy, If I am going to visit a barn I only need one OTC allergy pill.

But these Doctors I hung out with clearly recommended breeds that don't clean themselves (IE licking) Even my own doctor made several suggestions. So I read up on it while I was suffering years ago. So I got a little over the top when I saw your post.

Just putting this out there...you are more than welcome to offer a different side of WB.

daibutsu
01-19-2009, 10:44
Check out Schipperkeys, my friend has two, Brother and Sister, Amazingly clean and i think non allergenic as much as possible. I'm very allergic and never remotely have a problem with them.

JAK
01-19-2009, 10:53
Both my kids are allergic to pets so we got a Cockapoo. He is a LARGE Cockapoo at 31 pounds and turned out to be the perfect trail dog. The breed is well-tempered for the trail. He is smart, easy to train, does not shed, does not chase wildlife, stays close, is NEVER threatened by others, rarely barks, but cannot catch a Frisbee to save his life.

If you consider a Cockapoo make sure that the predicted final weight is over 20 with 30 being ideal. Some Cockapoos come in just over 10.

No, we don't use that over-sized pack for him anyore.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b186/ChinMusicIHSS/Mugsy/Deam_GroupPic.jpg

Here, with Crash Bang (NOBO 04)
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b186/ChinMusicIHSS/Mugsy/Pate7.jpgThanks. Great looking dog.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 10:53
I just want you all to know I really wrestled with myself before posting this and came back today to see if there was a reply. Honest I felt bad for posting it. I am sure there are different schools of thought on the subject. And I just reviewed your bio Tilly and see that you are a relatively new member and a Vet Lab Tech. I am sure you are surrounded with knowledgeable folk at work on the subject. I try very hard not to say things that upset people here at WB anymore. I don't pretend to know everything. Yea there is that trail name.... hmmm.

As a past amateur radio operator I used to hang out via radio with a group of young doctors (net) where they exchanged ideas, and one day they were talking for several hours about immunotherapy. Having been through the procedure twice at three years of injections (total six years age 10-13 then again in my twenties) I had something to add to the conversation. I had allergies bad as a kid, hayfever, hives, asthma you name it. We always had cats and or a dog in the house growing up. If I touched poison ivy it quickly covered 80 percent of my body. Today immotherapy is awesome and it works. I bearly have a reaction to poison ivy, If I am going to visit a barn I only need one OTC allergy pill.

But these Doctors I hung out with clearly recommended breeds that don't clean themselves (IE licking) Even my own doctor made several suggestions. So I read up on it while I was suffering years ago. So I got a little over the top when I saw your post.

Just putting this out there...you are more than welcome to offer a different side of WB.


No offense taken (well at first there was but that's okay:))

I was not going to get into the saliva/skin scales/dander issue, I thought "dander" was a generic word that would suffice.

My point was just that, contrary to pop. belief, just because you have a lesser shedding dog/short haired dog (I live w/ 3 Giant Schnauzers, they are supposedly non-shedding...yea right...I don't know if there are any dogs that will never shed, ever) they can still cause allergic reactions in people that are highly allergic.

Most people think that it is the pet's FUR that they are allergic to and it's not the case.

Yes, cats tend to cause more problems w/allergies in people than dogs, yes, cats groom a ton more than dogs do, but I just have never seen a dog that never will groom or lick it's fur, and the amount of grooming the dog does I don't know if it correlates w/being a lesser shedding breed.

People with very, very bad allergies probably may still have problems w/a dog that is generally considered to be hypoallergenic (including the dozens of poodle-mutts that people are breeding nowadays.)

That was my only point.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 11:02
Just have to add,

Was at work the other day, and we were taking rads of a cocker spaniel (hypoallergenic, right?) Nice dog, but this dog has allergy/skin infection issues of its own, and when we we done with the xray, both me and my coworker had both arms covered in a red rash and hives because whatever was going on with the dog triggered something in US, and I am only rarely allergic to any dogs.

You just never know what you're going to get. I can only imagine what someone would look like who has true full blown allergies after coming into contact with this dog.

berninbush
01-19-2009, 11:07
[quote=JAK;759230]

Also wondering how long a dog can be left alone. Is 7 hours a day 5 days a week too long? Would going home for 30 minutes to an hour at lunch be enough? Does having 2 small dogs vs 1 help, or make things worse?
[quote]

Nobody had really addressed this part of your post, so I thought I'd say something.

I'm single and work an 8-to-5 job, so I've had to take this into careful consideration when selecting a dog. The bottom line is that it's more about the individual dog's personality than the breed.

I'm a golden retriever lover. (Fantastic dogs, but NOT recommended for people with allergies, I should think... I could probably knit a sweater from what my dog sheds each month.) I've owned 2, one at a time, in the last 8 years. My first, Annie, was a golden retriever- cocker spaniel mix. I deliberately chose to adopt a 4-year-old very calm adult rather than a high-energy puppy because I knew she'd have to spend a lot of each day in a house or apartment by herself. Annie fit the bill and did well with this; she would end up sleeping a lot of the day while I was gone, and I would walk her mornings and evenings and give her lots of love whenever I was home. After a couple of years, we were adopted by a stray cat who kept her company some of the time.

She died of epilepsy in early 2007. Six months later I got my current dog, Lucy, an (apparently) purebred GR. Like Annie, she was adopted from a Golden Retriever Rescue group. These groups are great because the "foster family" can give you a lot of insight into the personality, needs, and foibles of the dog you're adopting. Once again, I chose an adult with a moderate level of energy rather than one that needed constant exercise and attention. A lot of golden retrievers would be utterly unsuitable to my lifestyle, but I've been fortunate that the ones I've had, have adapted very well. Also, right before I got Lucy I changed jobs so that now I'm able to go home sometimes at lunch time, which is very nice.

Lucy's "foster mom" was a little worried about her being lonely as an only dog, so I ended up adopting a kitten to keep her company. (The foster family had a kitten that she enjoyed playing with.) It's worked out great.

So I'd advise doing your homework. Consider adopting an adult dog rather than a puppy-- you'll have a better idea of personality, and they need less constant care. Puppies are fun, but like human babies, they take a lot of time and training!

Rouen
01-19-2009, 12:56
cocker spaniel (hypoallergenic, right?) ...

I dont think cockers are hypoallegenic, like berninbush's GRs the cockers I've had over the years you could make a whole new dog out of the hair they shed every month. being retreivers they like to do a lot with their mouths. they're also not a sound breed with skin, eye, joint, and mental issues becoming more common.

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 13:05
I dont think cockers are hypoallegenic....
Cockers are NOT.

Only when mixed with something like a poodle, creating a cockapoo, do you get a non-shedding, hypoallergenic dog. AND one with brains.

berninbush
01-19-2009, 13:11
Yeah, my first dog Annie was half cocker. She was the sweetest thing ever in temperment, but the poor thing had major health problems (she seems to have gotten the worst genes from both sides of her family, including shedding!). The epilepsy that killed her probably came from the GR side, but she also had CS ear infection problems.

ChinMusic's cockapoo sounds great, but I would add a word of warning that it does not represent all members of the breed. My parents have one that is psycho. :D As I said before, individuals vary. Making a generalization about all cockapoos is like making one about all New Yorkers.

Cockapoos and poodles DO tend to shed less. The texture of their fur is such that it resists falling out and holds together like lamb's wool. I guess it depends on what you're allergic to, as to whether this helps or not.

SteveJ
01-19-2009, 13:12
<clip>Most people think that it is the pet's FUR that they are allergic to and it's not the case. <clip>

I have a Siberian Husky that spends about 80% of the time indoors.

She sheds...to a certain extent, all the time. During ~June - August, she blows most of her coat. During the summer, we vacuum every day, and still have hair everywhere. We notice this especially since we replaced the light colored carpet with hardwood flooring!

I have strong allergic reactions to many things: dust mites, ragweed, certain spring grasses, and cat/dog dander - so I fight allergies almost year 'round. When I found allegra about 10 years ago, the quality of my life changed dramatically!

I don't have noticeable allergic reactions to my dog. I've read that Siberian Huskies supposedly have less dog dander than other dogs. I've always attributed my lack of allergy issues around her to that fact. (When I visit my parents, who have two cats, I begin dosing with allegra several days before and make sure to take it the entire time I'm there, or I'm miserable....)

Steve

Tilly
01-19-2009, 13:14
There are no NON SHEDDING/NON ALLERGY that will NEVER SHED and NO ONE WILL EVER BE ALLERGIC TO dogs.

That's ALL I'M SAYING!!!!!!!!!!

Tilly
01-19-2009, 13:19
PS--I was refering to cockers sarcastically as hypoallergenic....

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 13:32
There are no NON SHEDDING/NON ALLERGY that will NEVER SHED and NO ONE WILL EVER BE ALLERGIC TO dogs.

That's ALL I'M SAYING!!!!!!!!!!
My Cockapoo IS non-shedding. You would have to pull his hair out to get any. The growth cycle is not unlike human hair. He has to be trimmed every 4-8 weeks.

There is no pet hair in my house, car, clothing etc. It would take CSI to determine if I even OWNED a dog.

So, please, do not misinform.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 13:36
My Cockapoo IS non-shedding. You would have to pull his hair out to get any. The growth cycle is not unlike human hair. He has to be trimmed every 4-8 weeks.

There is no pet hair in my house, car, clothing etc. It would take CSI to determine if I even OWNED a dog.

So, please, do not misinform.

I'll duck out of the convo.

I'm just saying that you cannot tell me that no one will ever be allergic to your dog, that it is NONALLERGENIC FOR EVERYONHE, and that all cockapoos will never, ever shed.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 13:42
ETA:

I was sarcastically referring to cockers as hypoallergenic because they are mixed with poodles and the like and are called "hypoallergenic."

How can you mix a dog like that and consistently get a hypoallergenic dog is beyond me...because those dogs are mutts, some lean poodle, some lean cocker (seen cockapoos's that don't look poodle at all) so you can't say I have a hypoallergenic mixed breed dog and they will all be that way.

It also depends on the person...etc but like I said I'm ducking out now!

JAK
01-19-2009, 13:47
Thanks Tilly. I valued your input. I've heard of mixed results from mixed breeds, because the puppy might get traits from either parent. From your posts I can see how even a poodle would give some people trouble, since they are still dogs, and even a poodle has to lick and shed a little, I should think. I found it very interesting though about the protiens and the licking. Even if my wife isn't very allergic to poodles, she might become more sensitive over time. There is that risk also. We will go slow. Thanks again.

JAK
01-19-2009, 13:51
I'll duck out of the convo.
I may have to get a Duck Toller Retriever to bring you back. lol

TheKO
01-19-2009, 13:51
Another great breed other then the wire haired fox terrier is a Wesh terrier. Welsh's look exactly like a miniture Airdale. They are lap dog's so if you take with you on a hike, and they can hike, they will probably share your sleeping bag with you (unless of course they go to bed first in which case it will be their sleeping bag).

As for a larger dog, look up a Russian terrier. They don't shed, are non-alergenic and don't need clipping. Big dog but heart of gold.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 13:57
I may have to get a Duck Toller Retriever to bring you back. lol

Well if you can manage that I suppose I'll have to LOL!!

Wise Old Owl
01-19-2009, 13:57
Just have to add,

Was at work the other day, and we were taking rads of a cocker spaniel (hypoallergenic, right?) Nice dog, but this dog has allergy/skin infection issues of its own, and when we we done with the xray, both me and my coworker had both arms covered in a red rash and hives because whatever was going on with the dog triggered something in US, and I am only rarely allergic to any dogs.

You just never know what you're going to get. I can only imagine what someone would look like who has true full blown allergies after coming into contact with this dog.

That sounds more like Chiggers!:D

JAK
01-19-2009, 14:02
I think we will check out miniature poodles. I generally prefer mutts, like me, but in this case I think we might start looking at straight poodles, and see how my wife reacts.

Thanks all.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 14:03
That sounds more like Chiggers!:D

Well the hives I got reminded me of that but luckily I didn't need to break out the clear nailpolish ha ha.

Or scabies (shudder....)

Tilly
01-19-2009, 14:04
I think we will check out miniature poodles. I generally prefer mutts, like me, but in this case I think we might start looking at straight poodles, and see how my wife reacts.

Thanks all.

Good luck, there are also allergen-reducing shampoos that you can use on your pet that you can usually get at your vet's (or maybe even PetSmart or something like that.)

Wise Old Owl
01-19-2009, 14:04
Jak, IF the legs are too small, you won't be hiking with it, you will end up carrying it.


DONT GOOGLE IMAGES scabies!

JAK
01-19-2009, 14:11
I was just wondering that.
I think a miniature poodle might be tall enough. A miniature poodle is about 15-17 pounds.

JAK
01-19-2009, 14:12
Standard Poodle 35-40 pounds
Miniature Poodle 15-17 pounds
Toy Poodle 7-9 pounds
Teacup Poodle 3-5 pounds ?

Wise Old Owl
01-19-2009, 14:29
Jak I picked up a Lasa from the pound he's 15-17 lbs and at 4 miles he is suddenly useless. I got him up to six miles over time but the lack of enthusiasm is very clear! he starts out twenty feet ahead, after four miles he's twenty feet behind.

berninbush
01-19-2009, 15:40
Jak I picked up a Lasa from the pound he's 15-17 lbs and at 4 miles he is suddenly useless. I got him up to six miles over time but the lack of enthusiasm is very clear! he starts out twenty feet ahead, after four miles he's twenty feet behind.

Ha ha, that's not just a small-dog problem. My GR loves to hike with me, but I don't take her out often enough long enough to build stamina. She runs circles around me for the first hour or two, then is content to walk right with me. On a very long walk one time, by the end she was begging to lie down. I kept her going the last mile by promising that we were almost home and there would be food! (and by tugging on the leash)

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 16:04
ETA:

I was sarcastically referring to cockers as hypoallergenic because they are mixed with poodles and the like and are called "hypoallergenic."

How can you mix a dog like that and consistently get a hypoallergenic dog is beyond me...because those dogs are mutts, some lean poodle, some lean cocker (seen cockapoos's that don't look poodle at all) so you can't say I have a hypoallergenic mixed breed dog and they will all be that way.

It also depends on the person...etc but like I said I'm ducking out now!
And IMO you should be "ducking out". I personally find it hard to believe that you are in the field with the stuff you have posted on this subject. I normally would not be so blunt, but seriously, the information has been BAD.

First generation cockapoos are NOT mutts. They are hybrids with predictable outcomes. With third+ generation cockapoos the variations become MUCH more noted.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 16:16
And IMO you should be "ducking out". I personally find it hard to believe that you are in the field with the stuff you have posted on this subject. I normally would not be so blunt, but seriously, the information has been BAD.

First generation cockapoos are NOT mutts. They are hybrids with predictable outcomes. With third+ generation cockapoos the variations become MUCH more noted.

I'm sure that the breeder you got your dog from told you that. I'm sure that the "hybrid" (ie mixed breed it MUTT) breeders go to great lenghs to put that out there.

"Hybrid"=mixed breed dog. Purebred does not equal hybrid.

You will not get the same results every time. Telling people that all poodle/x are the same is just as irresponsible. Telling people that because your kids are not allergic to your mixed breed dog equals someone else not being allergic to a mixed breed dog is bad information.

Labradoodles etc? You are out of your mind if you think they are all the same. Some look more poodle, some look more lab, etc. Their coat and size varies ALOT.

People's reactions to purebred dogs will vary, as well.

Your dog is cute but he's a mixed breed dog. I'm glad your kids aren't allergic to it but that doesn't mean that all people are not going to have any allergies to that paticular mix. Please.

No, I am not in the business of breeding mixed breed dogs and passing them off as nonallergenic and never shedding and saying, oh, they're not mixes, they're HYBRIDS.

Poodles have hair similar to humans, of course, but you have NEVER lost a few hairs? Really? Your skin, like your dogs, never sheds skin cells? REALLY? Your dog has NEVER licked its butt or legs or has never done any grooming whatsever?


Had to respond to that one, because YOU are the one with bad information.

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 16:36
WOW, how long are you going to post this stuff?


I'm sure that the breeder you got your dog from told you that. I'm sure that the "hybrid" (ie mixed breed it MUTT) breeders go to great lenghs to put that out there.

"Hybrid"=mixed breed dog. Purebred does not equal hybrid.
Purebreds are the OPPOSITE of hybrids. Mutts are not necessarily hybrids. Hybrids are the offspring of two isolated gene pools. Which is EXACTLY what a first generation cockapoo is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockapoo



A cockapoo (also called a spoodle or cockerpoo) is a hybrid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_Hybrids_and_crossbreeds) dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog), bred by crossing an American Cocker Spaniel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Cocker_Spaniel) (or English Cocker Spaniel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Cocker_Spaniel)) and a poodle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poodle) (in most cases the miniature poodle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_poodle) or toy poodle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_poodle)), or by breeding cockapoo to cockapoo.


I think you have passed enough erroneous information for one thread. Follow your own advice.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 16:41
No, hybrids are cross bred dogs.

They are not purebred dogs, where you will get the same, consistent results for all offspring.

I am losing your point here.

I know you're getting mad, but I still stand by this--

There are no dogs that are 100% NONallergenic to all people.

When dealing with crossbred/mixedbred dogs you will not 100% know what you are getting, and saying that one cross/mix breed dog is going to be just the same as another is wrong.

The OP said that his wife has bad allergies, and I was simply saying that there is potiential for her to be allergic to HYPO (which is not the same as NON) allergenic dogs.

Rouen
01-19-2009, 16:47
Tilly's right, a hybrid is just a cross breeding of 2 or more breeds.. a mutt. until they breed true, which takes several generations of line breeding, they're not a breed, just a fancy mutt. you cannot know for sure what an F1 cross breeding is going to produce, and most of the dogs used to produce the F1 crosses are either a poor representatives of the breed or mutts themselves.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 16:49
And BTW, if I offended you with the use of the word "mutt" I do apologize. To me any dog that is not a purbred is a mutt or mix/crossed breed. "Mutt" is in no way putting down any dog. Mutts tend to be healthier than purebred dogs, anyway.

berninbush
01-19-2009, 16:51
Wow, that went downhill fast, didn't it?

I'm no expert on cockapoos. But I know that if you're talking about particular dominant and recessive traits... and I'm assuming the poodle-like hair is a dominant trait when present... then you're more likely to get it in the first hybrid generation than in subsequent cockapoo-to-cockapoo bred generations, which would bear out ChinMusic's point. Whether that's a GUARANTEED outcome in the first generation, I don't know, without knowing the exact genes that create the poodle hair. Tilly's observation that she's seen "cocker-leaning" cockapoos may also be entirely accurate, given that dogs with two cockapoo parents are also cockapoos.

I also think Tilly has a valid point that you can't predict the allergic reaction of a particular individual to a particular dog without testing it, regardless of breeding. Breeding only improves probabilities and gives you a place to start looking.

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 16:51
There are no dogs that are 100% NONallergenic to all people.

Who are you arguing with? NO ONE has made such a claim as to "100% NONallergenic"......NO ONE.

I personally, am careful with words and used hypoallergenic.

I solidly stand by my claim to non-shedding as we all know what shedding is. Humans and cockapoos do not shed. Their hair goes through LONG cycles of growth.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 16:55
Who are you arguing with? NO ONE has made such a claim as to "100% NONallergenic"......NO ONE.

I personally, am careful with words and used hypoallergenic.

I solidly stand by my claim to non-shedding as we all know what shedding is. Humans and cockapoos do not shed. Their hair goes through LONG cycles of growth.

Which goes back to original point that Wise Owl posted about skin cells, saliva, dander if you will etc. being the allergic triggers.

berninbush
01-19-2009, 16:57
ChinMusic, sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on your statement that humans don't shed! I have long hair and I shed a LOT. Not quite as much as my dog, but I tend to find a lot of my hair mixed up with hers when I vacuum. My hair falls out quickly and grows back in just as quickly, so it stays thick.

It's always controversial whether "mutt" includes dogs with only two discernable breeds in their heritage (including the offspring of two purebred parents). A matter of semantics.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 17:00
ChinMusic, sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on your statement that humans don't shed! I have long hair and I shed a LOT. Not quite as much as my dog, but I tend to find a lot of my hair mixed up with hers when I vacuum. My hair falls out quickly and grows back in just as quickly, so it stays thick.

It's always controversial whether "mutt" includes dogs with only two discernable breeds in their heritage (including the offspring of two purebred parents). A matter of semantics.

Ha, ha, I wanted to say that I lose a bit of hair each day even though I'm "non shedding" but I didn't want anyone to jump on me and compare me to a shaggy husky or something!!

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 17:31
ChinMusic, sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on your statement that humans don't shed! I have long hair and I shed a LOT.
I think we ALL know the difference between the loss of hair humans have with the shedding of dogs.

The two are NOT anywhere NEAR equivalent. If they were, "shedding" of dogs would not be an issue.

berninbush
01-19-2009, 17:38
If it makes you happy, CM, I can tell you that I shed far more than my parents' cockapoo.

But I do indeed shed. Each individual hair on my head is about 2.5 feet long. Multiply that by a much higher than average rate of hair loss, and you're talking about a considerable volume of hair that winds up on my floor. Even without my dog's contribution, I can collect considerable hairballs over time. Quite nasty, and a challenge to my vacuum. I periodically have to remove the roller brush and clean it... and because the individual hairs are longer, it's more often my hair than my dog's that is causing the problem.

I'm happy for you that apparently you and your family don't shed. I do. Chalk up another one to individual differences.

mudhead
01-19-2009, 17:39
Just for the record, Chinmusic has a fine looking young lady, with a fine smile.

Whoever tends those teeth does a fine job.

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 17:42
But I know that if you're talking about particular dominant and recessive traits... and I'm assuming the poodle-like hair is a dominant trait when present... then you're more likely to get it in the first hybrid generation than in subsequent cockapoo-to-cockapoo bred generations, which would bear out ChinMusic's point. Whether that's a GUARANTEED outcome in the first generation, I don't know, without knowing the exact genes that create the poodle hair.
Exactly. The genetics of a purebred poodle dictate that the first generation hybrids to be non-shedding. This is NOT a guarantee with the second generation. It is simple Mendelian genetics.

The only non-guarantee is whether the parents are true purebreds. If they are the first generation's traits in this respect are predicable.


Tilly's observation that she's seen "cocker-leaning" cockapoos may also be entirely accurate, given that dogs with two cockapoo parents are also cockapoos.

When blind individuals are "allergic" to pets such as Labradors they are pointed towards Labradoodles as a solution. These hybrids are actually easier to train than Labs and show MUCH less allergens. They use FIRST generation hybrids for this. They do that because of the predictability of the offspring. Again, simple Medelian genetics.


I also think Tilly has a valid point that you can't predict the allergic reaction of a particular individual to a particular dog without testing it, regardless of breeding. Breeding only improves probabilities and gives you a place to start looking.
There are very little definites in this world besides death and taxes. That does not make the case for the hybrids any less compelling.

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 17:47
If it makes you happy, CM, I can tell you that I shed far more than my parents' cockapoo.

As I would have expected. The growth cycle of a cockapoo's hair is VERY long. When brushing them you get nearly no hairs in the brush and the ones you do get were more than likely torn out in the process.



But I do indeed shed. Each individual hair on my head is about 2.5 feet long.
This means that at 2.5 feet those particular hair follicles are entering their rest phase. ALL human hair follows this pattern with varying lengths and varying lengths of time.

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 17:49
Just for the record, Chinmusic has a fine looking young lady, with a fine smile.

Whoever tends those teeth does a fine job.
If there are two dentists in town.....go to the one with the WORST teeth......;)

berninbush
01-19-2009, 17:52
This means that at 2.5 feet those particular hair follicles are entering their rest phase. ALL human hair follows this pattern with varying lengths and varying lengths of time.

How is that different from shedding? The bulk quantity of lost hair is comparable to what is produced by a lot of dogs. It's fewer, longer strands than you'd get from a dog, but if you're talking about keeping the house clean and avoiding allergens, how is that less problematic?

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 18:24
How is that different from shedding?
Shedding dog's follicles have a short cycle with regards to time. Their follicles go into the rest phase more often. Because of this "shedding" is an issue.

We ALL know the difference here.


It's fewer, longer strands than you'd get from a dog, but if you're talking about keeping the house clean and avoiding allergens, how is that less problematic?

It's NOT the hair but the dog dander that many humans have problems with. Poodles have VERY little dander and this dominant trait is passed on to nearly all (all?, 100% is a tough standard) first generation cockapoos. Such hybrids also lack the typical "dog smell". They really don't smell like dogs.

Wise Old Owl
01-19-2009, 18:31
How is that different from shedding? The bulk quantity of lost hair is comparable to what is produced by a lot of dogs. It's fewer, longer strands than you'd get from a dog, but if you're talking about keeping the house clean and avoiding allergens, how is that less problematic?

Ok there is no comparison, go into the bedroom, pull a piece of furniture that has a skirt board that a vacume cleaner cannot get underneath. look at the dust most of it is human skin scale! Most people with asthma are allergic to dust mite droppings. Dust mites are tiny bugs that live in warm, damp places. They are too small to see, but they live in mattresses, pillows, and house dust. They live off dead skin flakes, which we all shed. Dust mite allergy can cause asthma flare-ups. If you have this allergy, there are many steps you can take to control dust mites at home.

http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/123104/2180680/2187877/080423_MX_dustmiteEX.jpg

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 18:44
With BOTH of my children being allergic to pets we went without for much of their youth. It was not until I had been presented with hypo-allergenic dogs did we even consider getting a pet.

My kids could not even spend much time at friends houses (with pets) without them having affects. It did not even matter if the family put the pet in a separate room, or not even in the house at the time, they would be affected. It frustrated them.

I did a LOT of research on this issue because it meant so much to my kids. I even went as far as to "borrow" a cockapoo for a weekend (dog sitter) and to my pleasure NEITHER kid had any allergic reaction to it whatsoever.

The scientific/genetic reasoning is there and it is sound. Cockapoos (and many other crosses with poodles) are hypoallergenic (note that this is not equiv with non-allergenic).

Does that mean 100% for everyone? NO

Does this mean that thousands of families can have pets for their children who cannot tolerate pets in general? A resounding YES.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 19:34
With BOTH of my children being allergic to pets we went without for much of their youth. It was not until I had been presented with hypo-allergenic dogs did we even consider getting a pet.

My kids could not even spend much time at friends houses (with pets) without them having affects. It did not even matter if the family put the pet in a separate room, or not even in the house at the time, they would be affected. It frustrated them.

I did a LOT of research on this issue because it meant so much to my kids. I even went as far as to "borrow" a cockapoo for a weekend (dog sitter) and to my pleasure NEITHER kid had any allergic reaction to it whatsoever.

The scientific/genetic reasoning is there and it is sound. Cockapoos (and many other crosses with poodles) are hypoallergenic (note that this is not equiv with non-allergenic).

Does that mean 100% for everyone? NO

Does this mean that thousands of families can have pets for their children who cannot tolerate pets in general? A resounding YES.

Well, Chinmusic, I guess we agree to a certain degree...that cockapoos are mixed breed dogs that are tolerated by some people with allergies but not all, and that a low shedding breed is not the same as NON (which, unless I am passing bad information, means ZERO) shedding breed.

I don't know what you're all bent out of shape for. I don't think I've given any bad info at all, just something to think about---that "hypoallergenic" breeds are still not going to be nonallergenic for everyone.

Sheesh.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 19:38
I'm sorry if I've said before, but I do live with 3 "nonshedding" dogs, Giant Schnauzers, and I do find a small amount of hair when I sweep behind the furniture. I can't even pull their hair loose when I pet them and yet I find this hair. So I just doubt that there is a dog that has fur that never, ever, sheds, that is in fact bonafide NONshedding.

Just had to add.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 19:39
Although we did have a poor Sphinx cat in that has allergies. Poor thing. She was allergic the dog. Nonshedding, though.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 19:58
Oh, and I have to address where I'm coming from, too. Chinmusic accused me of giving out bad information, and that's it's surprising since I'm an RVT that I know so little or whatever he was saying.

Well, yes, I've worked in the animal related field for over 10 years, mostly in shelters, and the amount of times I've had people come in and say, "We gave our long haired cat away, we want a short haired cat instead" can make me cry. It's not the fur people?!? And people who come in and profess, "We have a child with severe allergies, we want a "hypoallergenic" dog" well there is no dog that I could ever serve up that is guaranteed not to cause an allergic reaction in people.

I am thinking of the animals here. I don't have kids, and I suppose that people who want a pet for there kids don't think much of getting rid of them if they don't work out, but that is not okay in my position. Like I said, though, I don't have kids, so I have not seen the other side.

When the OP said his wife had a lot of allergies, I just wanted to let him know that some people will not find a dog that they arent' allergic to, and that mixed breed dogs (specifically poodle mixes) are not a guaranteed way to go. I don't know why ChinMusic got so mad at me for pointing that out. In my history in an animal related field I have seen many dogs thrown away for allergy reasons, so I am sensitive to the subject. They aren't toys, they aren't presents either.

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 20:27
I don't think I've given any bad info at all, just something to think about---that "hypoallergenic" breeds are still not going to be nonallergenic for everyone.

Sheesh.
Hypo simple means less than normal. So yes, first generation cockapoos are hypoallergenic. Simply having hypertension does not mean you heart is gonna explode nor does hypotention mean you are dead.

regarding shedding: Only CSI could tell I even own a dog. If that does not qualify for non-shedding I guess your definition is different that mine.

regarding the term "mutt": Hybrids are not mutts. Here is a non-direct link.... http://www.cockapoos.com/


Cockapoos have been bred since at least the 1950's as an ideal companion pet and family dog. The hybrid vigor resulting from crossing these two popular breeds creates a dog that exhibits not only the "best of both" breeds but produces a better family pet than in either parent breed. The Cockapoo has become known and in demand for its wonderful disposition, high intelligence and curiosity, devoted loyalty, as well as for the hypoallergenic characteristics of little to no dander, shedding or odor.



A cockapoo is exactly what it sounds like 1/2 cocker spaniel and 1/2 poodle. It is not a mutt but a hybrid. A mutt can be anything that had canine parentage. A hybrid is a cross between two known entities. A breed is formed through careful record keeping over the generations until a certain ideal is well established and reproducing or breeding true.


The reason the hybrid term is important is the same reason it is important in agriculture. You get the hybrid vigor in the first generation. Just throwing seeds in the field from a previous harvest would akin to the term mutt. Your crop would have mixed characteristics and not the predictability.

Tilly
01-19-2009, 21:28
You win, Chinmusic.

(Although the word "mutt" simply means a dog that has parentage of more than one breed, meaning 2 or more. If you want to call your dog "hybrid" that's fine with me. The same way a cavashonpoo is a tribrid, or designer dog. To each his own.)

ChinMusic
01-19-2009, 21:50
You win, Chinmusic.

(Although the word "mutt" simply means a dog that has parentage of more than one breed, meaning 2 or more. If you want to call your dog "hybrid" that's fine with me. The same way a cavashonpoo is a tribrid, or designer dog. To each his own.)
The importance is the genetics. A first-gen mix is a hybrid. That term has meaning. To simply use the word "mutt" is to deny such importance and ignore the hybrid vigor.



A mixed-breed dog, also called a mutt, mongrel, tyke, cur, bitzer, feist or random-bred dog, is a dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog) that has characteristics of two or more types of breeds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_breed), or is a descendant of feral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral) or pariah dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pariah_dog) populations. The term "mixed-breed" is a misnomer, as it does not indicate the offspring of dogs of known or pure breeding. This term (along with the term purebred dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purebred_(dog))) stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of genetics and misinterpretation of Darwinian theory,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-breed_dog#cite_note-Budiansky-0) and is analogous to the concept of "mixed races" in human populations (see purebred dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purebred_dog) for discussion). In contrast to mixed-breed, the term crossbreed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbreed) refers to puppies produced by the intentional breeding of dogs of two different known purebred dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purebred#Purebred_dogs) breeds. The term "mutt" generally refers to a dog of unknown descent. Dogs interbreed freely, except where extreme variations in size exist, so mixed-breed dogs vary in size, shape, and color, making them hard to classify physically.

berninbush
01-20-2009, 12:00
Dictionary.com gives the following definition for "mutt":

–noun Slang. 1.a dog, esp. a mongrel.

And it gives the following definitions for "mongrel."

–noun 1.a dog of mixed or indeterminate breed.2.any animal or plant resulting from the crossing of different breeds or varieties.

So a first-generation cockapoo is not of "indeterminate breed" but it is certainly of mixed parentage, and it is the result of crossing different breeds. Calling it a "mutt" in no way denigrates its "hybrid vigor," if you're using the second dictionary definition of mutt/mongrel as provided here. Hybrids are a sub-set of mutt just as they are a sub-set of dog.

You added to Tilly's original explanation by pointing out that your best chance of getting a dog you're not allergic to is to look for a first-gen cockapoo rather than a second-gen or later one. That did not make her original explanation incorrect or useless; you just added to it (as did I) by explaining why a first-gen cockapoo is different from others. Tilly's point also remains important: you should as much as possible get experience with the animal you want to make SURE you're not allergic, rather than making assumptions, since allergies are very complicated and individual things and pets cannot be "thrown away."

Wise Old Owl
01-22-2009, 01:27
Who are you arguing with? NO ONE has made such a claim as to "100% NONallergenic"......NO ONE.

I personally, am careful with words and used hypoallergenic.

I solidly stand by my claim to non-shedding as we all know what shedding is. Humans and cockapoos do not shed. Their hair goes through LONG cycles of growth.


My wife sheds quite a lot, no amount of drano will free up the drain in the shower and its always long hair. ( I have a crew cut) Dust is partially human shedding of skin.

Wise Old Owl
01-22-2009, 01:39
Tilly, there was a recent survey in the last month you can find by searching WB and quite a few people revealed they are scientists, bankers, doctors, and other professions, many here except me have a four or more years of college education. Nobody is an expert here, but you are clearly butting heads with a ton of knowledgeable people who can back up their statements with good information on hiking and other subjects, that alone is why WB is so special. You can ask questions on lots of subjects that are related to hiking and find out so much more, or you will be handed links to look up information that will help you.

JAK
01-22-2009, 08:41
It occurred to me that we all tend to oversimplify natural science. It is useful, even neccessary, to do so. When we butt heads it is usually over which over-generalization is best. They are usually both useful.

I understand non-human cells on and in the human body outnumber their host's cells by about 10:1, and so to it must be with dogs. Dust in a home is largely comprised of dead human cells, but also dust mites, living and dead, and other organisms. Most of the mass is from human cells. Having dogs around must be very similar. We often say things like 'poodles don't have dander' or 'this dog doesn't shed' or 'this dogs is hairless' but these are all likely oversimplifications, factually incorrect, though perhaps practically correct, or at least useful. All dogs must shed hair and skin and living and dead organisms, because none of these cells live forever. Some more than others, and the chemical and biological makeup likely varies from breed to breed, and individual to individual. Do allergies are complex, because humans are complex, and because dogs are complex. There are many different and conflicting oversimplifications about such things, but they are all useful.

Wise Old Owl
01-22-2009, 09:42
It occurred to me that we all tend to oversimplify natural science. It is useful, even neccessary, to do so. When we butt heads it is usually over which over-generalization is best. They are usually both useful.
.

We have a in law with a brother come over C & Easter to our home and for years she complains that this or that bothers her, and honest with two dogs and the dust here she has a lot to complain about. She takes a lot of these doctor prescribed meds and the non sulfite wine has to be just right and well it just strikes me as a little "hypocondriac." I try to keep the dog from her and at some point Rugby went right up to her sat and put his right paw on her lap. She then complained that Rugby was going to jump up on her! I looked her in the eye and asked "Did you shake his paw?" That is what he was trained to do! She is good natured, it's just you can't make this stuff up. I even bathe the dogs before she shows up.

JAK
01-22-2009, 10:42
lol. It is interesting how different people are, and alot of it is in our heads, which makes it even more interesting. My favourite discoveries are when I dispell some of my own myths. It's always easy to discover something that suggests I've been doing something right, like not using as much soap as some others would suggest I should, or not washing wool every time I use it, but it can also be lots of fun to discover I've been doing something wrong. Usually pretty rare occurence though. ;)

Tilly
01-22-2009, 10:52
Jak, any good hiker knows that soap is overrated and that it's not a good idea to wash wool everytime you use it, better to sleep in it for a good week or 2 first...:) I guess we're just ahead of the game!

Jeepocachers
01-22-2009, 14:13
[quote=berninbush;761166][quote=JAK;759230]

Also wondering how long a dog can be left alone. Is 7 hours a day 5 days a week too long? Would going home for 30 minutes to an hour at lunch be enough? Does having 2 small dogs vs 1 help, or make things worse?
Nobody had really addressed this part of your post, so I thought I'd say something.[quote]

I work 9 hour days, 5 days a week, and with my own experience, I discovered that a dog with a companion throughout the day is less destructive. Actually, destruction with the two dogs I have now is non existent. Once the boy dog realized that the girl dog was in charge of the house, there has been no problem with leaving them home alone for 10 hours. If you have a fenced in back yard, a doggie door is the best. No worries with a doggie door.

JAK
01-22-2009, 18:40
That's good to know. Thanks.
I'm also alot less destructive when the wife is in the house.

berninbush
01-23-2009, 01:50
I agree, a doggie door is your friend!! Easier housebreaking and fewer accidents. And dogs that aren't bored and have more stimulation are less likely to chew/ destroy things.

mudhead
01-23-2009, 06:38
Doggie door-Keep in mind the size of the animal and owls.

Jack Tarlin
01-23-2009, 17:57
Also, avoid clinically depressed poodles, especially if you're a retired leftist French politian.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,481426,00.html

Yes, there is a God.

hopefulhiker
01-23-2009, 18:01
We have a Labradoodle but it sheds like crazy.. Not all of them get the curley poodle hair.. It is a good retriever though. There are also minature Golden Noodles but these are considered designer dogs and go for hundreds of dollars a piece.. We got a rescue dog because his hair wasn't the right kind but poodles are smart and labs and goldens have good dispostions...

berninbush
01-24-2009, 16:19
Hopefulhiker, I'm curious whether your dog is a first-generation cross between a purebred labrador and a purebred poodle, or was it bred from two labradoodles?

My golden retriever rescue group had a couple of golden doodles once that *did* have the curly poodle hair. Sometimes even "designer dogs" can find themselves homeless.

JAK
01-24-2009, 17:05
Wonder if clinic depression runs in this dogs family?

http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1392373&auth=THE%20CANADIAN%20PRESS

Rouen
01-25-2009, 01:10
My golden retriever rescue group had a couple of golden doodles once that *did* have the curly poodle hair. Sometimes even "designer dogs" can find themselves homeless.

There is a pair of labradoodles at one of my local shelters. they look older though, one has what looked like tumors on his back.

Wise Old Owl
01-25-2009, 22:35
Doggie door-Keep in mind the size of the animal and owls.

HUH? - Owls? what?:p

JAK
01-25-2009, 23:58
Interesting that the Obama's are also looking for a hypo-allergenic. I'm really leaning towards poodle, but if I wait until they get one the price might go up. Or I could wait until they pick something and go with something different and the price might go down. Or I could wait and pay extra to get the same, which would be a lame thing to do, but what the heck. Or I could just do what by wife and daughter tell me to do, which is probably what the President will do in this case. lol

leeki pole
02-04-2009, 11:48
Don't get a poodle. Very weak. Try a mountain fiest, great hiking dog and about 15 pounds. Fearless and energetic, but very lovable, just remember that they need LOTS of exercise. Short hair, doesn't shed much, tough as nails.

JAK
02-04-2009, 12:53
Neat dog. Never heard of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treeing_Feist
"mainly used as a squirrel dog" - interesting. How does that work exactly?

Rouen
02-04-2009, 16:27
mountain feists and others of the same type:
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/feist.htm

leeki pole
02-05-2009, 10:33
Neat dog. Never heard of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treeing_Feist
"mainly used as a squirrel dog" - interesting. How does that work exactly?
My feist will climb a tree to go after a squirrel. They tree them and then the hunter harvests the game. They remind me of a cat, as nimble as they are. I don't hunt anymore, but it's fun to watch them work. She can jump clean over a 48" fence, no kidding, at 15 pounds and maybe 12 inches high at the withers. Very active dogs!