View Full Version : Do you really need a sleeping pad?
puddingboy
01-18-2009, 12:22
Ive been on a number of hiking and camping trips and I have never used a sleeping pad. Is it worth the pack weight? Will it make a difference in the amount of sleep I get?
Desert Reprobate
01-18-2009, 12:25
When I was 15 I didn't need one either.
garlic08
01-18-2009, 12:25
When I was 15, I never used one. I don't think they'd even been invented then. We still had rotary dial phones, too, and vinyl records. I met one AT thru hiker this year who didn't use one and I was impressed. So no, you don't need one, it's up to you.
puddingboy, the pad is for insulation, not comfort. If you want to sleep warm, you need one.
If it is cold out it will help keep you warm. That is goal number one of the sleeping pad. If you want comfort they got pads that keep you warm and keep you comfortable as well. Yeah, its worth the weight when you can get something as light as this (http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/thinlight.html). You can even cut it down to torso size to lighten it up if you are crazy silly about weight. The 8 buck blue pad at walmart is a classic though. Light, cheap, warm.
Ive been on a number of hiking and camping trips and I have never used a sleeping pad. Is it worth the pack weight? Will it make a difference in the amount of sleep I get?
Probably not for you. I quickly stopped bringing a pad for my kids, when I discovered they never stayed on them more than a few minutes. Most 15-year-olds in my experience can easily sleep most anywhere, any time.
The exception might be in winter conditions, when a foam pad adds some insulation from the cold ground, or cold snow as the case may be. Snow however, if covered with a waterproof tarp, is a pretty good insulator also.
Don't experiment on a long distance hike, however. First do a few overnights, and see what works best overall.
Weary
Thats how we did it in winter when I was In the scouts. We would lay out a plastic sheet under our floorless tent.
While on the trail, you can layer your clothes under you and maybe a fleece under your hips if needed.
4eyedbuzzard
01-18-2009, 12:51
I dunno, at 9 oz and about $15 for a 3/4 length ridgerest, I think it's one of the last things I'd be leaving behind even at age 15. But if you don't need or want a sleeping pad, hey, it's your choice. I'm too old to even consider sleeping right on the ground.
I slept on frozen ground last night. I was glad to have 2 pads.
Toolshed
01-18-2009, 13:03
When I was 15, I never used one. I don't think they'd even been invented then. We still had rotary dial phones, too, and vinyl records. I met one AT thru hiker this year who didn't use one and I was impressed. So no, you don't need one, it's up to you.
Now That's funny....
My Depression era parents won't break down and spend the $20 to get a new phone upstairs. So when we were there over Christmas, my son stood looking at the old phone. He asked me what it was. I explained. He thought I was pulling his leg.....
4eyedbuzzard
01-18-2009, 13:19
Now That's funny....
My Depression era parents won't break down and spend the $20 to get a new phone upstairs. So when we were there over Christmas, my son stood looking at the old phone. He asked me what it was. I explained. He thought I was pulling his leg.....
Funny. Made me think of this Calvin and Hobbes cartoon:
http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/calvin-father-on-black-and-white-pictures.gif
I think it depends on the ground temperature.
When substituting clothes over a ground sheet for a blue foam pad you get alot of condensation on cold ground. On day trips I've started bringing a wool blanket, and some sort of ground sheet, instead of a blue foam pad. A wool blanket is heavier than closed cell foam for the same warmth and volume, but it is more flexible, and aesthetic. Also, I can usually get someone to carry the wool blanket on the trip back to the car, but not the blue foam pad.
I agree 2 blue foam pads are a good idea in winter, even on snow, once below 0F.
If you like self-inflating pads for comfort, in winter on snow you might get enough comnfort and more warmth for the same weight by leaving the self-inflating pad home and taking a second blue foam pad, if you have the volume for it.
I am not sure what ground temperature might make a blue foam pad unneccessary.
Feral Bill
01-18-2009, 15:14
About 12 years ago I forgot my pad on a short overnighter with my then 4 year old. I through some pine needles under my bag and slept fine. HOWEVER, it was nice and warm out, and only one night. Get the blue pad.
NCYankee
01-18-2009, 21:55
I could not imagine sleeping without a pad at this point in life, but that is after years of abusing this body
fiddlehead
01-18-2009, 22:01
There's a lot you can do without.
Earl Schaeffer used newspaper for insulation (and wore no socks) for his 1st thru (not sure if he used one or not on his second)
I see Thai people all the time sleeping on a hard tile floor. It's just what you get used to (although when it's cold out, the insulating factor helps a lot)
There's a lot you can do without.
Earl Shaffer used newspaper for insulation (and wore no socks) for his 1st thru (not sure if he used one or not on his second)
I see Thai people all the time sleeping on a hard tile floor. It's just what you get used to (although when it's cold out, the insulating factor helps a lot)
Very true. For years I used only the thinest pillow at home, because that was all I could easily carry backpacking. Similarly, I used only mimimal covers at night, so I could be comfortable with a light weight sleeping bag on the trail.
I even convinced my wife that a stiff mattress for our bed would be healthier and more comfortable in the long term, so I could make do with a minimum weight pad on the trail.
A kid who never succumbs to the pleasure of a backpacking pad, probably could hike a lifetime without that extra weight.
Weary
BobTheBuilder
01-18-2009, 23:23
Puddingboy, I'm not sure why you're getting the advice you're getting, or maybe I am a total wimp, but I cannot sleep without the cushion of a pad. I've tried after my Big Agnes air-core went flat one night. In the morning, I hadn't slept and I was miserably sore. I guess I never tried rounding up a pile of pine needles, but I think it would be similar to trying to sleep on a pile of socks on my wooden floor. I guess it's one of the few luxuries I insist on and don't mind carrying. But from the tone of the responses I am the minority. I only recommend this - try sleeping on an uncarpeted floor at home to simulate a shelter floor and decide. It beats being sleepless for several days.
When I use a hammock and it's nice weather I won't bring one. Using a tent, it's nice to have one as another layer separating you from the cold ground.
Serial 07
01-19-2009, 01:26
you should...
Rockhound
01-19-2009, 11:57
Ive been on a number of hiking and camping trips and I have never used a sleeping pad. Is it worth the pack weight? Will it make a difference in the amount of sleep I get?
How was the weather on your hiking/camping trips? My guess is you weren't waking up to 10 degree mornings. Take a sleeping pad. It's worth the weight. They don't weigh much and strap easily to the outside of your pack so it would not be taking up cubic space. Even for just the comfort factor they are worth taking. A better nights rest equals a better days hiking.
Puddingboy, I'm not sure why you're getting the advice you're getting, or maybe I am a total wimp, but I cannot sleep without the cushion of a pad. I've tried after my Big Agnes air-core went flat one night. In the morning, I hadn't slept and I was miserably sore. I guess I never tried rounding up a pile of pine needles, but I think it would be similar to trying to sleep on a pile of socks on my wooden floor. I guess it's one of the few luxuries I insist on and don't mind carrying. But from the tone of the responses I am the minority. I only recommend this - try sleeping on an uncarpeted floor at home to simulate a shelter floor and decide. It beats being sleepless for several days.
Keep in mind that you are 44 and Puddingboy is 15. Very few, if any 44-year-olds, can sleep without a pad, though around that age I once forgot my pad on a February hike to a baseball bat shelter. By thinking powerful thoughts about ignoring the pain I managed to doze off a few times.
Very few reasonably active in the outdoors 15-year-olds will need a pad.
I didn't even know there were such things as backpacking pads at age 15. The rule then was to cut spruce boughs, though I never bothered. I know I never carried a pad when I rode my bike on a 250 mile round trip to the White Mountains to camp and hike for two weeks at age 14, during World War II.
Weary
On Earls' last hike, he didn't have a pad. Also no tent. All he did was roll up in a tarp.
Wise Old Owl
01-19-2009, 17:15
Ive been on a number of hiking and camping trips and I have never used a sleeping pad. Is it worth the pack weight? Will it make a difference in the amount of sleep I get?
Some strange advice on this thread, lets bring it back on subject. We have to take an educated guess that you have been out in something less than three season to accomplish without a pad. You need a CCF pad or walmart blue pad to keep you off the ground to stay a little warmer in spring & fall to avoid some cold spots or hypothermia. You can start with something that lasts almost forever. If you can afford it or ask for this on a holiday I would recommend this:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media.rei.com/media/708520Lrg.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rei.com/pwr/product-reviews/Camping-Hiking/Camping-Sleep-Pads/Foam-Pads/Therm-a-Rest/p/708520-Therm-a-Rest-Ridge-Rest-Regular.html&usg=__pdnhM3ACDWl4DCM84OSIv3FVTjc=&h=440&w=440&sz=24&hl=en&start=9&um=1&tbnid=n9sU2HcO4U8cQM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthermarest%2BRidgeRest%2Bmattress%26u m%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGLG_enUS310US310%26sa% 3DN
Ok folks recommending what Earl did in the dark ages to a young man is ....just dumb.
Some strange advice on this thread, lets bring it back on subject. We have to take an educated guess that you have been out in something less than three season to accomplish without a pad. You need a CCF pad or walmart blue pad to keep you off the ground to stay a little warmer in spring & fall to avoid some cold spots or hypothermia. You can start with something that lasts almost forever. If you can afford it or ask for this on a holiday I would recommend this:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media.rei.com/media/708520Lrg.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rei.com/pwr/product-reviews/Camping-Hiking/Camping-Sleep-Pads/Foam-Pads/Therm-a-Rest/p/708520-Therm-a-Rest-Ridge-Rest-Regular.html&usg=__pdnhM3ACDWl4DCM84OSIv3FVTjc=&h=440&w=440&sz=24&hl=en&start=9&um=1&tbnid=n9sU2HcO4U8cQM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthermarest%2BRidgeRest%2Bmattress%26u m%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGLG_enUS310US310%26sa% 3DN
Ok folks recommending what Earl did in the dark ages to a young man is ....just dumb.
I agree WOO. Perhaps the folks remembering and recommending no pad are thinking of the times they camped when sleeping bags were made of heavy, non-compressible materials. Today's bags offer virtually no insulation under the body. Or they are thinking of the times in the scouts when a bale or two of straw was laid out beneath the tents when winter camping.
Today, with LNT and highly compressible insulation in sleeping bags, a pad is required for any age, in all but the warmest weather.
But I guess at 15, he's old enough to make his own judgment, as long as he knows that help is available when (not if :D) he has a miserable night.
The year was '98 for Earl. I was also going without a pad.
In the scouts we set up our Baker tents and threw out the plastic, no straw. It never got below 0 though.
Wise Old Owl
01-19-2009, 17:44
Today's bags offer virtually no insulation under the body. Or they are thinking of the times in the scouts when a bale or two of straw was laid out beneath the tents when winter camping.
But I guess at 15, he's old enough to make his own judgment, as long as he knows that help is available when (not if :D) he has a miserable night.
I remember doing that!
No I just read the posts and had this strange idea that the 40 somethings can possibly relate to:
Dad can I borrow the car keys?, "Well no son, a guy named Earl Shaffer hiked in bare feet and didn't use a tent in the fiftys to hike the thirteen colonies, so I exspect you to go out to the barn and saddle up the horse."
Folks I have a new expression from years of telling my dad in a polite way that WW2 was over. "GET OVER IT!"
the young man is looking for advice on a cheap pad from $10 -$60 bucks.... this isn't the Great Depression either.
I guess what I am trying to say and some of us will appreciate the good old days even if it was fourty years ago, is that it is rare that a young man ASKS for advice, and clearly you don't have sons or forgot some things when you are young. Please temper (beat a piece of steel into shape and put it in cold water) your replies.
....the young man is looking for advice on a cheap pad from $10 -$60 bucks.... this isn't the Great Depression either.
I guess what I am trying to say and some of us will appreciate the good old days even if it was fourty years ago, is that it is rare that a young man ASKS for advice, and clearly you don't have sons or forgot some things when you are young. Please temper (beat a piece of steel into shape and put it in cold water) your replies.
Well for some of us the "good old days" were a lot further back than 40 years. And though the great depression hasn't returned as yet -- we may be getting close.
Weary
Wise Old Owl
01-19-2009, 19:13
Well for some of us the "good old days" were a lot further back than 40 years. And though the great depression hasn't returned as yet -- we may be getting close.
Weary
Its OK guess what Weary, I too need to step back away from the laptop sometimes. I stepped up to the soapbox said my peace and fell though the box onto the soil just now. (its a metaphor)
I agree WOO. Perhaps the folks remembering and recommending no pad are thinking of the times they camped when sleeping bags were made of heavy, non-compressible materials. Today's bags offer virtually no insulation under the body. Or they are thinking of the times in the scouts when a bale or two of straw was laid out beneath the tents when winter camping.
Today, with LNT and highly compressible insulation in sleeping bags, a pad is required for any age, in all but the warmest weather.
But I guess at 15, he's old enough to make his own judgment, as long as he knows that help is available when (not if :D) he has a miserable night.
Well back in the "old" days, sleeping bags were made of down. You know down. It's still a major insulation for wise backpackers. It still compresses, no better, nor no worse, than ever before.
Of course, in the World War II old days, we used kapok, gathered from a common weed -- before it goes to seed a wonderful free food, available in overgrown fields everywhere.
BTW, the kid says he has never experienced a bad night sleeping without a pad. I'm willing to predict that he won't -- at least for another year or two -- maybe longer.
Weary
Lone Wolf
01-19-2009, 19:51
Ive been on a number of hiking and camping trips and I have never used a sleeping pad. Is it worth the pack weight? Will it make a difference in the amount of sleep I get?
only if foolish enuf to sleep in shelters or on rocks. otherwise, no.
The dude is 15, he probably car camps in the summer. The best advice is to buy a blue CCF pad or a ridgerest / thermarest pad for comfort and insulation against heat loss to the ground. This will add months of comfortable camping each season.
To answer the question, hell yea, the weight penalty is worth it.
Lone Wolf
01-19-2009, 19:52
puddingboy, the pad is for insulation, not comfort. If you want to sleep warm, you need one.
no, one is not needed
Lone Wolf
01-19-2009, 19:54
Keep in mind that you are 44 and Puddingboy is 15. Very few, if any 44-year-olds, can sleep without a pad,
that's a crock of crap
no, one is not needed
Does anyone else notice that in between LF's private jokes, and trolls, he quite often speaks the truth? Well, being almost 40 times 2, I now need a pad. I didn't at 15. I won't argue whether other 40 plus-year-olds need a pad or not. I can only give my experience. Having spent many nights below freezing and quite a few below zero, I wonder how many such nights our lonely wolf has experieced.
Weary
jersey joe
01-19-2009, 19:58
I would advise bringing a pad if you are sleeping in shelters. If in a tent, nah, don't need one.
Lone Wolf
01-19-2009, 20:05
Having spent many nights below freezing and quite a few below zero, I wonder how many such nights our lonely wolf has experieced.
Weary
i'm willing to bet quite a few more than you
the_black_spot
01-19-2009, 20:35
Ive been on a number of hiking and camping trips and I have never used a sleeping pad. Is it worth the pack weight? Will it make a difference in the amount of sleep I get?
well, if you have been on a 'number' of trips, shouldn't you know the answers to these questions? :)
whether or not something is worth carrying is all up to you. if you are really that concerned, go buy a blue foam pad from wally world for 8 bucks and do some comparing!
theinfamousj
01-19-2009, 20:42
When I was 17 (only two years older than you) and camping during the shoulder season, it was the first time I was ever really, really cold at night. That night, someone suggested a sleeping pad. I tried it on my next trip and was toasty.
My current roommate is 26 and has yet to sleep with a sleeping pad despite the fact that I tell her that doom will befall her otherwise. On the other hand, she only sleeps in the outdoors in the summer.
Do you need a pad? Probably not all the time. But today's $10 Walmart pad is so cheap, so lightweight, and has the capacity to be cut to pieces and (with duct tape) reconstructed into other useful camping implements, that it is worth your while to bring it with you at first.
As my cold night reminded me, if you didn't bring it with you, then you cannot roll over on to it.
hnryclay
01-20-2009, 00:33
Buy a pad its cheap, you can cut it down just for your torso.
Like others, when I was a teenager, I didn't use a pad unless camping on snow. When taking my own teenaged boys backpacking, they always carried pads, but always rolled right off them without waking. For that age group, carrying a pad is probably is wasted effort.
Ive been on a number of hiking and camping trips and I have never used a sleeping pad. Is it worth the pack weight? Will it make a difference in the amount of sleep I get?
Like many decisions on equipment, it varies for each individual. To find out if you need a sleeping pad, try spending a night on a concrete floor without a pad.
sixhusbands
01-20-2009, 09:32
One sure thing about hiking from Georgia to Maine is that it will rain and you will get wet. the pad will keep you off the wet ground and help you get some sleep after days of rain. the Zrest is very good in all conditions, cold, hot, wet uneven ground and it will not leak , leaving you on the dirt.
get a pad and leave a jar of peanut butter out.
Lone Wolf
01-20-2009, 09:32
To find out if you need a sleeping pad, try spending a night on a concrete floor without a pad.
there are no concrete floors on the AT
Blissful
01-20-2009, 10:46
Pad is good when it's cold, keeps you warmer by insulating you from the ground. In the summer don't need it.
there are no concrete floors on the AT
True. But some of the granite in the Sierras or redrock in Utah is a good approximation.
As others said, for summer (warmer) hiking, you probably do not need a pad except for comfort. At 15, probably not as important.
For cooler hiking, you may need (or want) a pad to keep you warmer. In the past, you could easily accomplish the same thing with pine needles or similar duff. In high use campsites, that may not be as easy.
Like many others, I prefer a simple, cheap, effective and light (less than 6 oz cut down) blue foam pad for my hikes. At less than $10 from various stores, and being light, it is a good investment.
Again, if you stick to warm weather camping, you probably don't need one.
i'm willing to bet quite a few more than you
Well, I haven't seriously counted but between 1970 and 2001, I spent around 6 nights a year -- probably more -- backpacking during the winter months in Maine and New Hampshire.
That's around 180 nights. It's hard to calculate. I mostly spent a minimum of two weekends a year winter backpacking. But some years that was three or more trips -- some of which lasted a week or more.
I can't debate the details without hours of research. Let's just agree that we both have had a great deal of winter backpacking experience.
Weary
Wise Old Owl
01-20-2009, 20:20
that's a crock of crap
Ok would you choose to hike without?
For a few ounces in terms of comfort - I will carry it.
Like many decisions on equipment, it varies for each individual. To find out if you need a sleeping pad, try spending a night on a concrete floor without a pad.
Well, very good advice overall, but not in the particulars. In 70 plus years of camping in the back country, I have yet to find a concrete floor.
Weary
Wise Old Owl
01-20-2009, 21:57
there are no concrete floors on the AT
I am not trying to argue LW but, having been in a tent without a pad on solid ice is noticably worse. There is solid ice on the AT and frozen ground.
Lone Wolf
01-20-2009, 22:03
I am not trying to argue LW but, having been in a tent without a pad on solid ice is noticably worse. There is solid ice on the AT and frozen ground.
but what fool would try to sleep on solid ice with or without a pad? :-?:rolleyes:
Puddinboy, what have you learned about Whiteblaze by starting this thread?
phishpapond
01-20-2009, 22:57
I carry a self inflatting 1 inch pad with a iflatable pillow. Comes in around 5lbs.
You only need what YOU need on the trail. I need comfort so I a very comfortable but heavy pad. If I don't I won't sleep much. You don't sleep you don't hike
there are no concrete floors on the AT
Maybe true, but there are certainly some very hard floors along the AT. And, to test out sleeping without a pad for one night, I'd suggest trying the extreme.
(PS, what's the floor in some of the Tennessee shelters that have concrete block walls?)
sleeping pads are good not just for comfort but in the cold for warmth
but that doesn't mean u have to buy a $100 one you can get one like thermarest ridgerest for much cheaper the ridgerest is only 14oz, compared to most inflatable/air mattresses that are all over a pound
but what fool would try to sleep on solid ice with or without a pad? :-?:rolleyes:
Then, Lone Wolf, why do you tell me that you have slept more often in such conditions than I.
Weary
Some .sea hags m or f will never change.:D
Dollinks,
It occurs to me that HYOH just might occur here.
Some manly men can sleep soundly, in the nude, in a walk in freezer. More power to you.
Other mere mortals, such as myself, appreciate a little comfort in the wilderness.
This hiking thing is a tradeoff. Comfort while sleeping and eating (via stuff you carry) versus comfort while walking (via stuff you're not carrying).
With that thought, I leave you to continue the discussion.
Grinder
Dollinks,
It occurs to me that HYOH just might occur here.
Some manly men can sleep soundly, in the nude, in a walk in freezer. More power to you.
Other mere mortals, such as myself, appreciate a little comfort in the wilderness.
This hiking thing is a tradeoff. Comfort while sleeping and eating (via stuff you carry) versus comfort while walking (via stuff you're not carrying).
With that thought, I leave you to continue the discussion.
Grinder
I've noticed that mysteriously trade offs extend beyond the trail and influence most everything one does in life. LYOL
I did the northern (warm) half of the AT without a pad, then got an ensolite (closed cell) pad for the cold stretch. The choice to do without was to save weight, which was measured in fig/apple newtons at the time.
The baseball bat floored shelters in Maine sucked, but at the time I couldn't help but think the Thermarest lugging Nobos were weenies.
They were, but probably smarter about some things. Like pads.
Pickleodeon
01-22-2009, 14:49
I agree that the comfort is worth the weight. I prize my sleep, and warmth. A lot.
max patch
01-22-2009, 15:04
I didn't need a pad until i hit 30. Then my body started talking to me.
I didn't need a pad until i hit 30. Then my body started talking to me.
Thats when it hit me too. Now I always carry a self inflating pad. I sleep extremely well now and wouldn't backpack with out it.