View Full Version : Silk Liner in a 20 Degree Bag...
I am departing NOBO on the 22nd of Feb and was planning on using a 20 Degree bag. Now I know it is a border line bag for such a early start but also realize I sleep very warm. Though for a little extra measure I have been considering buying a Silk Liner to give myself a little more warmth. The liner's claim 9 Degrees on top of your rating. My question is how accurate is the claim with a 20 Degee Down bag. So any of you out there who have USED a silk liner your input is appreciated. Thanks Grumpy
Used it. 9 deg? No way...maybe a few degrees, and it will help keep your bag clean....
I hiked from GA to VA in '07 with a 20 degree synthetic bag and a silk liner. I'm a warm sleeper also, and I had maybe one or two chilly nights where I had to put on extra layers, but this was literally when there was a hard freeze and whipping winds all night. The liner is great alone for when it's too warm to zip your bag, and I also used mine as a laundry sack.
sticks&stones
01-18-2009, 14:00
5-7 in my estimate, helps keep inside of bag clean, used mine as a skirt when doing laundry. I carried 2 and a wm 25 bag on several march 1st starts, but i sleep warm anyway.
I think you would need to have used it, and done some objective tests.
Perhaps comparing a 20deg bag with one to a 10deg bag without one.
Also depends on your standard to adding 10degF of bag rating.
Perhaps these might be considered equivalent, all adding 10degF of rating...
4oz of 900 fill down
6oz of 600 fill down
8oz of synthetic fill ???
16oz of silk, fleece, or wool liner ???
20oz of silk, fleece, wool clothing ???
So perhaps a 4oz silk liner might add 2.5 degF, and an 8oz liner might add 5degF.
Thanks for the input... if anyone else has used the setup I would still like to hear from you...
loft is warmth 1/16 in liner cannot do much, better to add down jacket/fleece pants to help morning and evening than send them away and get them back at glenclif for the whites
loft is warmth 1/16 in liner cannot do much, better to add down jacket/fleece pants to help morning and evening than send them away and get them back at glenclif for the whites
Agreed, AND it's tough walking around camp in that bag liner. Microfleece tops and bottoms might be a better investment (certainly more multi-use).
All things considered, warm sleeper, definitely using a new 20* bag, wearing layers to sleep, Feb 22 NOBO start, BRING the 4.5 oz silk liner to increase 5-9 * of warmth. Send it home after the Smokies.
Even, if U don't get the total 9* of additional warmth, what do U lose. Having to carry a Cocoon 4.5 oz silk liner and something that compresses to the size of two walnuts?
rockdawg69
01-18-2009, 20:44
Lots of good advice here. I use a 20 degree synthetic and a cotton liner. On the AT, I have been to 14 degrees comfortably using my lightweight thermals, socks, and hat, and I need to sleep a little warm. I plan to start from Damascus in mid-March using the same setup, except in a hammock with either a BA insulated Air Core or Exped downmat 7 as my pad. I don't find the sleeping to be as big a problem as the getting out of the bag and getting breakfast and/or moving in below freezing temps, especially below 20.
If you expect the temps get below 10 and/or wind chill to be a factor (usually is in Southern Apps), then you might want some other insulation (rain suit, fleece, etc.) Extra weight - yes, but your hike, your choice on comfort level.
Blissful
01-18-2009, 23:26
My son had a 20 degree with a liner and did fine from March on. The 9 degrees is debatable, but so is ratings anyway sometimes.
Blissful
01-18-2009, 23:29
All things considered, warm sleeper, definitely using a new 20* bag, wearing layers to sleep, Feb 22 NOBO start, BRING the 4.5 oz silk liner to increase 5-9 * of warmth. Send it home after the Smokies.
No way should you send it home after the Smokies! You can get temps in the teens in April (we did, along with snow)! Esp with the high elevations at Roan mtn, etc. I would not send anything winter home until Pearisburg, VA. The liner weighs little, all things considered.
Valid pt. Blissful. I stand corrected. So, check the long term weather report after the Smokies and then decide if 4.5 oz is too much to carry.
Runsalone
01-20-2009, 01:13
Agreed, AND it's tough walking around camp in that bag liner. Microfleece tops and bottoms might be a better investment (certainly more multi-use).
BINGO! And they dont twist up in your bag and try to kill you either:eek:
Jim Adams
01-20-2009, 01:37
Just sounds like a really slippery (still) 20* bag to me.:)
geek
Worldwide
01-20-2009, 10:03
I think liners are a sliding scale. If they actually did add 10 degrees of insulation it would be from 40 to 30 not 20 to 10.
I use one so my bag doesnt smell like ass and feet for eternity
joshua5878
01-20-2009, 11:26
can aomeone send me a link on where to find a good silk liner?? I am leaving late Feb NOBO AT with a 15* Mont-Bell Super Stretch and a Lunar Duo. Thanks in advance! Joshua
I hear really good things about these http://www.nznature.co.nz/product/silk-sleeping-bag-liner.
$34.95 USD and they come all the way from New Zealand but it includes shipping and didn't take long.
Bare Bear
01-21-2009, 00:20
I used one for the colder start but ditched it even as it got cold again at the end. I found they tangle my feet so bad I could barely get out of my bag to go pee! In the dark it is nearly impossible to get back into the thing too. A garbage bag over the outside foot of your bag will do the same thing for 50 cents and you won't feel bad throwing it away when you do not need it. Both ways make me sweat too much.
I used one for the colder start but ditched it even as it got cold again at the end. I found they tangle my feet so bad I could barely get out of my bag to go pee! In the dark it is nearly impossible to get back into the thing too. A garbage bag over the outside foot of your bag will do the same thing for 50 cents and you won't feel bad throwing it away when you do not need it. Both ways make me sweat too much.
...chuckle....try doing all that in a hammock! the liner hasn't made the last several trips.....
theinfamousj
01-21-2009, 00:51
I was given a silk liner years ago, mainly as hostel sheets (http://www.travelgearblog.com/archive/dreamsack-review.html). Mine is called a Dream Sack (http://www.dreamsack.com/store/product.php?productid=146&cat=2&page=1) and is rectangular cut with a pillow pocket. I don't know how warm it makes things, but I wanted to let folks know that stuffing a rectangular liner into a mummy makes for good wiggle room. Of course, that is if the bag isn't constricting to begin with. I can sleep with one leg up and one leg straight.
gearfreak
01-21-2009, 08:34
can aomeone send me a link on where to find a good silk liner?? I am leaving late Feb NOBO AT with a 15* Mont-Bell Super Stretch and a Lunar Duo. Thanks in advance! Joshua
Take a look at the Cocoon (http://www.designsalt.com/detail.asp?pageId=products&pageName=mummyliner&PRODUCT_ID=SM) in rip-stop silk. :cool:
5*- 9* or mind over matter? I can't imagine a silk liner doing much more than keeping your bag clean.
wcgornto
01-21-2009, 09:42
I don't sleep on a mattress without a sheet covering it. Likewise, I don't sleep in a bag without a liner. I wash the liner frequently and have never had to wash my bag.
I use a Marmot Pinnacle 15 degree bag which sleeps warm anyway, so I don't know how many degrees the liner adds. For my thru hike this year, I am using a Marmot Hydrogen 30 degree bag, so the liner might actually be of benefit from an incremental warmth standpoint.
kytrailman
01-21-2009, 10:13
Liners are good to keep your bag from smelling like REAR!!! I have been fine in a 20 down to low teens with just what I had( extra layers are great because you already have them packed) Also depends on where you are sleeping/where you set-up camp/ ( shelter, tent, hammock-- hammock/tent in a shelter) All of these things will definitely play a role in how warm/cold your night will be. Ultimately, you must do what works for you. Good luck with it.. I am sure you will be fine.
phillycheze
01-23-2009, 14:13
over turkey weekend i had my 32 degree with a silk liner down to 15 degrees. no problem, slept like a baby.
stuff is relative to each person. just look at what people wear skiing. some will have 10 layers and a down jacket on and others will just have a light soft shell; on the same day and both people are comfortable.
to each their own.
You might have been just as warm without one though. I think the main advantage is keeping the bag clean, and the second is when you first jump into a cold bag, especially if you like to sleep nearly naked. I can see how this can give the perception of degrees of extra warmth, but once the bags warmed up it probably contributes very little. Perhaps the equivalent of 2oz of extra 900 down fill, or 3oz of 600 down fill, for 5oz of silk or wool or fleece. Clothing should do the same but be more versatile. I like the silk scarf idea though.
Camping Dave
01-24-2009, 21:38
I am departing NOBO on the 22nd of Feb and was planning on using a 20 Degree bag. Now I know it is a border line bag for such a early start but also realize I sleep very warm. Though for a little extra measure I have been considering buying a Silk Liner to give myself a little more warmth. The liner's claim 9 Degrees on top of your rating. My question is how accurate is the claim with a 20 Degee Down bag. So any of you out there who have USED a silk liner your input is appreciated. Thanks Grumpy
I own the Campmor silk liner and use it every time I hike or camp: all 4 seasons. It's very comfy, keeps the bag clean, fells much better against skin then WM's extremelite fabric. Does it provide 9 degrees warmth? No way.
Camping Dave
01-24-2009, 21:44
it probably contributes very little.
Is this the same JAK who says a little silk and some fleece can make your 20 degree bag work well at -20? http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45256
...chuckle....try doing all that in a hammock! the liner hasn't made the last several trips.....
Did the Thermarest, liner, sleeping bag combo in a Hennesy hammock - UGH! Got a surfing lesson while out hiking!!!
Is this the same JAK who says a little silk and some fleece can make your 20 degree bag work well at -20? http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45256No. It isn't.
I used a 20 degree synthetic bag last Jan in the GSMNP. It dropped to 2 degrees on two nights. I carried extra fleece and socks to sleep in. It wasn't my best night sleep but it was tolerable. My bag had a bivy on it but it was more trouble from the condensation than it was a help for warmth.
I, out of desperation, purchased a Campmor 0 degree bag. It has a full zip -- something I was missing for 3 years in my very nice Kelty. Then I got a double knit silk liner and had a seamstress put a double set of tabs in the bottom of the bag and also attached to the bottom of the liner. The system works real slick. I mostly use the bag as a quilt while in the liner. I don't mind the extra pound weight. The Campmor price was great. Oh, and I will carry a 0 degree bag year round. I'm a survivalist and I seldom get caught with my pants down more than once. Aye LW?
hikingtime
01-26-2009, 15:59
I have a Sea To Summit silk liner. Manufacturer claims "adds up to 10 degrees of warmth." Actual is more like 5 degrees.
boarstone
01-26-2009, 16:17
I use the Marmot Women's 15 deg. bag. Made of recycled materials, about 2lbs, I can add the fleece blanket w/a sewn in zipper that I made, when I need more warmth. Use either the bag or the fleece as a quilt when warm. I use a hammock w/a sewn on liner on outside of my hammock to insulate from the cold ground/air under me. I like to be able to add/take-away as needed. So now I can go really cold 3 season/mountain w/altitude or warm weather. I have the same weight issues as if I had to buy another bag, less the expense.
Capt.Scott
01-26-2009, 18:10
I just used a new S to S thermolite liner. They claim 15 F. I was in my NF you-know-what and the temp dropped in the Blue Ridge at Punchbowl to negative numbers. I wasn't hot, but I wasn't cold either :banana
Baltimore Andy
02-04-2009, 15:44
A garbage bag over the outside foot of your bag will do the same thing for 50 cents and you won't feel bad throwing it away when you do not need it. Both ways make me sweat too much.
has anyone else tried this trash bag trick? it seems like it would work well but i don't want to wake up sweaty. i have a 20* WM bag and a silk liner. sleeping naked in that setup only keeps me comfy down to a tad below the suggested 20* rating anyway. i sleep cold, especially my feet. i wouldn't mind carrying a light weight trash bag to keep my feet warm and maybe protected from the elements too! -Andy
Unclegorb
02-05-2009, 23:48
I've got the sea to summit liner also, and I love it. It's even great by itself for warm weather, but its a bit heavier than the silk liners. Its also got a wonderful stretching ability so you don't have to worry about ripping it when your tossing and turning all night.
http://www.rei.com/product/705534 - check out all the positive reviews on REI
surefoot
02-07-2009, 11:19
Not all bags are created equal. I have several different 20 degree bags. One will keep me warm at 20 degrees, one close, and the other I would freeze at 20 degrees. I know your time is limited but I would suggest spending some nights outside in your bag with different set ups. Bag liner, clothes, etc. Find the set up that works best for you.