View Full Version : DN alcohol destroys nalgene!
Yonah Ada-Hi
01-21-2009, 22:08
I have discovered that de-natured alcohol will destroy Nalgene bottles, if stored in them for long periods- I have one that I kept full for a year and it weakened to the point where I crushed it with one hand. The material became so brittle that it basically shattered with little effort. I was on a 5 day hike when I noticed the lattice of fine cracks. Thankfully, it made it through the trip! Anyone else noticed this? (I will post a picture soon)
I'd suggest the AntiGravityGear fuel container, these are awesome for fuel and even olive oil :) Fuel Bottle (http://antigravitygear.com/proddetail.php?prod=AGALFB4B)
Ramble~On
01-21-2009, 23:41
:-? Are you talking about a polycarbonate Nalgene or a regular plastic one ? Being a solvent I guess in time it wouldn't matter though.
take-a-knee
01-22-2009, 00:03
I'd suggest the AntiGravityGear fuel container, these are awesome for fuel and even olive oil :) Fuel Bottle (http://antigravitygear.com/proddetail.php?prod=AGALFB4B)
Yep, looks like the same one Minibull sells.
Blue Wolf
01-22-2009, 00:07
Use a 16.5 oz coke bottle or a 20 oz they work great I have never had a problem with them.
yeah I noticed the same thing - it was the regular nalgene (smaller 8 ounce bottle) not the polycarbonate - I noticed it after about 2 years of use
take from me a nalgene isn't a good idea for storing denatured anyways
it might get mixed up w/ a nalgene that has actual water in it...
also a lesson to pour your water first :eek:
Old Goat
01-22-2009, 07:42
I like the one sold at www. brasslite.com I used one for my thru hike and it worked perfectly. It has a flip top pour spout and the measuring device is part of the bottle. There's no way the wind can blow away the cap or measuing cup because they never come off the bottle in the woods. I carried it in an outside pocket and dropped the pack on it many times.
I've seen the same bottle sold in EMS stores too.
Trail Bug
01-22-2009, 08:47
Along these same lines a friend told me that you should never use DN alcohol in the MSR fuel bottles as it does something to the lining. Does anyone have an opinion on this? To me it did not sound right.
garlic08
01-22-2009, 09:47
Not only DN alcohol, but I've seen the same thing happen with liquor stored in Nalgene. I think it decomposes the plastic at rapid rate. That was before the BPA scare. I hate to think how much of that I've ingested.
I'd also heard that you should not use a metal MSR or Sigg bottle for alcohol, and always use a bottle designed for alcohol, like the bright red MSR bottle. Maybe it's something about aluminum? I always figured for one season or one hike, a water bottle would be OK. They're easy to replace. But not for long-term, I guess.
Polycarbonate isn't great for long term storage, of anything, even water.
Its most useful property is short term resistance to boiling water.
Polycarbonate is non-resistant to such things as gasoline, meaning fast degradation will occur. Polycarbonate has limited resistance to alcohols, and also coffee, meaning slow degradation will occur. Polycarbonate is resitant to water, at room temperature, but slow degradation will occur in water above 60degC.
Here is a table of resistance of polycarbonate sheet to various materials.
http://www.palramhort.com/pdffiles/PC_Products_General_Info/PC_Chemical_Resistance.pdf
Interestingly polycarbonate is non-resistant to alot of spices, like cloves, and allspice.
Has anyone had problems storing some spices in plastic containers?
jpanderson80
01-22-2009, 11:19
take from me a nalgene isn't a good idea for storing denatured anyways
it might get mixed up w/ a nalgene that has actual water in it...
also a lesson to pour your water first :eek:
I solve this issue by putting a few drops of food coloring into my Alchohol. Then I can easily tell which is water and which is fuel.
budforester
01-22-2009, 11:41
I have discovered that de-natured alcohol will destroy Nalgene bottles, if stored in them for long periods- I have one that I kept full for a year and it weakened to the point where I crushed it with one hand. The material became so brittle that it basically shattered with little effort. I was on a 5 day hike when I noticed the lattice of fine cracks. Thankfully, it made it through the trip! Anyone else noticed this? (I will post a picture soon)
That might also be sun- damage, rather than solvent. Some plastics are not stabilized to UV and they get brittle. Old milk jugs come to mind, that I've seen in dumps or around the garage.
Oh, yes, I do recall having a Nalge water bottle that got brittle and cracked... that was in a previous millenium.
Like Blue Wolf said, just use a 16-oz. coke bottle. I'm still storing alcohol in the same 16-oz bottle that I bought in SNP on the AT 3 years ago, and the bottle is in perfect condition. I've never had any leaks or other issues with coke bottles.
I solve this issue by putting a few drops of food coloring into my Alchohol. Then I can easily tell which is water and which is fuel.
i don't think that would have mattered in my case, i was talking and trying to pour, damn that doing two things at once
I have different colored bottles for fuel and olive oil, that saves some time too ;)
Not only DN alcohol, but I've seen the same thing happen with liquor stored in Nalgene. I think it decomposes the plastic at rapid rate. That was before the BPA scare. I hate to think how much of that I've ingested.
I'd also heard that you should not use a metal MSR or Sigg bottle for alcohol, and always use a bottle designed for alcohol, like the bright red MSR bottle. Maybe it's something about aluminum? I always figured for one season or one hike, a water bottle would be OK. They're easy to replace. But not for long-term, I guess.
Does anyone know if that's the same for the flask the Nalgene makes? Especially since its liquor specific.
The Nalgene Flask is PET with a Polycarbonate sleeve. PET is resistant to alcohol. Not really sure what the sleeve is for. To give it a more solid feel I suppose, and I suppose you could drink water from it as a chaser.
http://www.spadout.com/p/nalgene-flask/
garlic08
01-23-2009, 11:55
Does anyone know if that's the same for the flask the Nalgene makes? Especially since its liquor specific.
I couldn't find the one I'd seen years ago, thought it was by MSR, maybe not. Here's the first specific alcohol bottle I could find on a search:
http://casanovasadventures.com/catalog/camp/p1488.htm
i'm not sure, but an old listenine bottle should hold up for a long time, as the plastic is able to handle the heavy dose of alcohol it normally holds :D
thanks for the heads up on the nalgenes.
Gaiter thank god that was your nalgene and not your stomach!!!
Trail Bug
01-27-2009, 15:21
I sent an email to the company asking about the MSR fuel bottles.
Thanks for contacting Cascade Designs. What you heard is correct, denatured alcohol oxidizes bottles and will essentially ruin it with extended us. We do not recommend storing denatured alcohol in our bottles.
I had a lexan bottle from walmart disintegrate when I kept white gas in it.
when I started reading this I ran to check my bottle. Have had DN alcohol in a plastic water bottle for over a year and it's still strong. I have mine clearly marked with orange duct tape and then sharpied on "DO NOT DRINK" "STOVE FUEL"
the plastic water bottles are Ok afaik - the bottles with an issue are the Nalgenes that are not the polycarbonate (clear) type - ie the older style white Nalgenes
I sent an email to the company asking about the MSR fuel bottles.
Thanks for contacting Cascade Designs. What you heard is correct, denatured alcohol oxidizes bottles and will essentially ruin it with extended us. We do not recommend storing denatured alcohol in our bottles.
MSR ALUMINUM fuel bottles?????
They can handle white gas but not alcohol?
That's very surprising.
I have a discontinued Nalgene plastic bottle specifically designed to hold fuel. It's red, has an internally stored pour spout, is marked on the bottom "FLPE" and has a #2 for the recycling number. I believe the "LPE" stands for Linear PolyEthylene, but I don't know what the "F" stands for (no wise cracks, please :p).
Edit: I actually have two. One is a quart size, one is a pint. I bought them at least 5 years ago at New England Backpacker outside of Worcester, Ma.
Dances with Mice
02-16-2009, 15:28
I have a discontinued Nalgene plastic bottle specifically designed to hold fuel. It's red, has an internally stored pour spout, is marked on the bottom "FLPE" and has a #2 for the recycling number. I believe the "LPE" stands for Linear PolyEthylene, but I don't know what the "F" stands for (no wise cracks, please.Fluorinated high-density polyethylene.
The fluorocarbon acts like a teflon coating. Well, maybe kinda sorta. OK, so not at all. But it does reduce solvent penetration into the walls of the container.
Fluorinated high-density polyethylene.
The fluorocarbon acts like a teflon coating. Well, maybe kinda sorta. OK, so not at all. But it does reduce solvent penetration into the walls of the container.
Thanks. Good to know. Makes me think of all those fluorocarbons I've been leaving on cross country ski trails the past 30 years.:-?:o