No camping zones on the AT? [Archive]

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audiophile

01-23-2009, 11:51

I'm trying to figure out where the no camping zones are on the AT. After reading through the Thru Hiker Companion (2008) I found the following no camping zones:

MD - designated areas only
PA - varies but designated areas only
NJ - designated areas only
CT - designated areas only
NH - above the tree line

But I know there's got to be places along the way that don't allow it. For example, I know Harriman State Park in NY only allows camping at designated areas (the shelters).

So, what areas do you know of that you aren't allowed to camp freely in?

Cool AT Breeze

01-23-2009, 12:05

Gsmnp

Strategic

01-23-2009, 12:51

I know directly of several between Maryland and the Hudson.

In PA:
- All the PA state parks prohibit camping except at designated sites, including Caledonia and Pine Grove Furnace. This isn't really much of a hardship after you get north of Pine Grove Furnace since very little of the trail north of there is on state park land (the short section on both sides of Swatara Gap, for instance, is a state park, but there's a shelter a short way south at Rauch Gap and a bit north along the ridge is William Penn shelter so it's only about four miles of non-campable trail.)

- The section north of Port Clinton, from the top of the climb out of town to just short of Eckville shelter (which is not listed in the Companion, though why I don't know) is in the Hamburg Watershed reservation and is a no-camping zone except for the designated site at Windsor Furnace shelter.

- The Superfund site along Blue Mountain from Lehigh Gap to Little Gap is also technically a no-camping zone, but there is a well-known campsite on private land just above Metallica spring. I've camped there and it's a sweet site, but I'll leave it to you whether you want to use a spring on a Superfund site. I didn't and regretted it later, as there is no water NOBO until you get to Stempa's spring, and that's a steep .6 miles off the trail.

- The entire northern end of the PA section is also a no-camping zone in the DWGNRA. While camping is allowed in the NJ sections of the park, the PA side is off limits. That means from Tott's Gap to NJ for certain, though much of the land north of Wind Gap up to this point is private and may or may not be open to camping, though there is camping at and near Kirkridge shelter (including the lovely sites at Nelson's Vista about .5 miles north.)

- Most of the PA AT is on state game lands that are open to camping by AT hikers, but not other campers (or even hunters, oddly enough.) But be aware that the rules (and their interpretation) are pretty strict: one night at a site, must be moving through (i.e., no "out and back"), must stay away from roads and water sources, and must limit impact. You'll find plenty of already "improved" campsites all along the game lands sections, so no worries there.

In NJ:

-The entire area of Worthington State Forest, which covers the area from DWG to about 3 miles north of Sunfish Pond in a no-camping zone, strictly enforced. There is the Backpacker #2 site .5 miles south of Sunfish as the only allowed camping spot in this section.

- All the other state parks and forests in NJ are no-camping zones except at established shelters, as are the AT corridor lands north of the DWGNRA.

- In the DWGNRA, camping is allowed but has a serious set of restrictions:
"one night per campsite, no more than ten persons per campsite, hiker camping allowed only within 100 feet of the A.T., no camping within 0.5 mile of an established roadway, no camping within 200 feet of another camping party, no camping from 0.5 mile south of Blue Mountain Lakes Road to a point 1 mile north of Crater Lake, no camping within 100 feet of any water source." The Blue Mountain Lakes to Crater Lake zone has a large sign to warn you when you hit it.

In NY:
- NY is much like NJ, at least up to the Hudson (which is as far as my direct knowledge runs.) All the state parks and forests (which is most of the trail in this section) are no-camping zones. The one big difference is that this seems to be much more loosely enforced than in NJ.

Hope this run-down helps. I'm sure I've left something out, but it's just not coming to me right now so I'll close with what I have.

Good luck and good hiking.

KG4FAM

01-23-2009, 12:52

NH - above the tree line

there is a bit more to it than just tree line
http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/recreation/camping/backcountry_rules_2008-09.pdf

audiophile

01-23-2009, 13:17

Great Info Strategic! Thanks!

there is a bit more to it than just tree line
http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/recreation/camping/backcountry_rules_2008-09.pdf

Woah, is there anyplace you /can/ camp? :p

4eyedbuzzard

01-23-2009, 13:35

...Woah, is there anyplace you /can/ camp? :p

Sure, everywhere the AMC(Appalachian Money Club) takes your money for the priviledge.:rolleyes::D

emerald

01-23-2009, 14:33

Most of the PA AT is on state game lands that are open to camping by AT hikers, but not other campers (or even hunters, oddly enough.)

Not so odd SGLs are not open to camping by hunters. With few exceptions, legal hunting in Pennsylvania is an activity that occurs only during daylight hours where easy access exists. Sorry, opportunities for multi-day elk hunting trips to remote locations by horseback are not an option.

There are specific inaccuracies in the above post related to Lebanon and Berks Counties noted by BMECC's watchful eyes. I'll address them and add more information after conferring with other club members.

A.T. hikers should buy and carry guidebooks. What's posted here is often helpful, but not necessarily more up-to-date than the official guide books and is not always 100% accurate.

emerald

01-23-2009, 14:46

Sure, everywhere the AMC(Appalachian Money Club) takes your money for the priviledge.:rolleyes::D

I look forward to the day when I can read post here without seeing AMC referred to as the Appalachian Money Club. They are a major player in the area of natural resource conservation and provide all sorts of essential services which would not be provided otherwise. Need I point out what they have done for supplimental protection of the A.T. in Maine? None of these things are free.

Lone Wolf

01-23-2009, 14:51

I look forward to the day when I can when I can read post here without seeing AMC referred to as the Appalachian Money Club. They are a major player in the area of natural resource conservation and provide all sorts of essential services which would not be provided otherwise. Need I point out what they have done for supplimental protection of the A.T. in Maine? None of these things are free.

i agree. it's always the whiney thru-hikers complaining. after 1700 miles they still can't figure out how to bed down for the night without a shelter, hostel or motel.

Tin Man

01-23-2009, 14:51

Wags

01-23-2009, 16:13

very informative questions and answers. thanks

Blissful

01-23-2009, 16:15

There really is not that many places where you can't camp, and even with the ones where you can't, it's no big deal.

My biggest surprise is that I wasn't aware of some of the camping restrictions in PA until just last year (like at Rausch Gap, I think it is). That's one I kinda blew on my trip in '07 - innocently of course. Camped right out where I wasn't supposed to. :)

Cosmo

01-23-2009, 19:00

Add Mass to the "Camping only at Designated Areas" list. Not to say that I've never seen anyone camping in a non-designated areas--just if you're caught, they make GA-ME's go back to the CT border and ME-GA's back to the VT border and start over...

Cosmo

audiophile

01-23-2009, 21:55

Tin Man

01-23-2009, 22:00

They can't make you do that.... can they?

yes they can, same folks who create tax forms

emerald

01-24-2009, 00:47

In Pennsylvania there are quite number of agencies and trail clubs responsible for delivering the product we know as the Appalachian Trail. All of these agencies and A.T. maintaining clubs have a slightly different way of doing things and that makes hiking here a bit different, but it's not a 200-mile minefield.

The single most important thing Pennsylvania A.T. hikers can do to help themselves is to buy KTA's maps. Once one has KTA's maps, it's quite possible to make sense of things.

By planning ahead and paying attention to boundaries, hikers can easily comply with applicable regulations and will be inconvenienced little if at all. Much has been done recently to make information hikers need more readily available, but I'm still of a mind more should be done.

I want a single link which can answer most questions similar to the question raised by this thread as it relates to Pennsylvania. It is a question which deserves a proper answer. We cannot create a custom answer on demand whenever someone asks us. Such attempts will always fall short of a proper answer.

This issue begs an article and people to link it. There are also improvements needed in The A.T. Thruhiker's Companion. This is not the first time I have realized this or mentioned it.

Serial 07

01-24-2009, 00:49

if i remember correctly, there are many spots along dirt roads in PA that are off limits even though there are obvious camp sites...i've already detailed on WB, very friendly trail magic that was thwarted by federal rangers where tickets of $175 were given to all there...so, point is, stay away from easy sites off dirt roads in PA if there are signs posted...

emerald

01-24-2009, 01:07

The last post refers to Pennsylvania State Game Lands where camping is not permitted within 500 feet of public access areas. It pays to carry proper maps and refer to them often. Signs are posted to be read and hikers ignore them at their own peril.

I'll modify this post providing a list of PGC camping regs which apply to through hikers on SGLs with proper documentation when I have the time to devote to doing it right. The applicable regs are simple and not at all onerous.

As a general rule, camping near roads isn't a good idea anywhere.

Tennessee Viking

01-24-2009, 02:22

I know of a couple spots here in the South that camping is prohibited. Round Bald on Roan, Bald Mountain Shelter, Deep Gap near Mt. Rogers. Mainly its do to soft ground or wildflowers.

Cosmo

01-24-2009, 10:51

They can't make you do that.... can they?

Not likely. The only significant enforcement personnel are state rangers, and they have their hands full elsewhere. You might get a gentle lecture from a Ridgerunner (or me) in the unlikley event we would find you (and if you do it right, we won't).

It is more about respecting the Trail and its environment--that is why the regulations are there. In places like NY/NJ/CT/MA the Trail is on a pretty narrow land corridor. In National Forests, AT camping is often not restricted to designated sites because the protected land containing the Trail is relatively big--there are however, National Forest rules about being 200ft from the trail and water sources, fragile environments, etc, and they are there for the same reason as we have our restrictings in Mass--to protect the resource from being damaged or conflicts with neighbors.

As other posters have mentioned, Pennsylvannia trail lands management is complex, the patchwork of land management entities is sometimes messy, with each entity having different goals and management objectives. A comprehensive compendium suggested by Shades of Grey would be an interesting and useful document.

Cosmo

Strategic

01-24-2009, 12:42

A quick addendum to my earlier post and a question for Shades of Gray:

I knew that I'd left out a large no-camping zone in PA in the last post, but just couldn't think of it at the time and wasn't where I could get to my maps. The piece I was thinking of was the section from about a mile north of Center Point Knob through Boiling Springs and across the Cumberland Valley to PA 944. This is a good 14 or 15 miles across private land (and town streets) on a very narrow corridor at best and (unless you've got specific permission) not open to camping. The only exception is the designated campsite in Boiling Springs, but most people try to avoid that if they can (there are also other non-camping accommodations in Boiling Springs, of course.) That still leaves you a solid 10 or 11 miles out across the valley before you climb back up the ridge and get to Darlington shelter.

The question for Shades of Gray is: what did I get wrong? As far as I know I didn't miss anything major and I wasn't trying to run down every last minor restriction and use rule for audiophile, just give him the a good idea of where to avoid and plan around. I wasn't going to bother telling him that Peters Mountain shelter sits in the middle of a two-odd mile stretch of private land or other trivia, because it won't make any difference for him. Why bother camping only a mile or so from a shelter when there's nothing to attract you to the site? It's not like a place like Nelson's Vista, which has a fantastic morning view (close to a shelter though it is.)

Certainly I was being a bit cursory about the state game lands regulation, but that's as much as most thru-hikers need to know. Audiophile's doing preliminary planning and this is the kind of info he needs, not some comprehensive and complicated list of regulations. Not that there's anything wrong with that; you know I'm a nut for info myself and love research and compilation for its own sake, but I try to give others what they ask for, not drown them with more than they need or want to know.

Seriously, I know this is your backyard and all, but you've got me scratching my head here. What did I do that gets this response?

emerald

01-24-2009, 15:37

Without reading your 1st post again, what I remember grabbing my attention was the suggestion that someone need only hike north from Swatara State Park to William Penn Shelter to find legal camping. Legal camping may be found as soon as a northbound through hiker enters SGL 80, but that level of detail is not of much use before beginning a through hike.

I think the take home message for those planning through hikes ought to be buy KTA's maps, watch your signage and boundaries and read through the The Online Companion. Buy a guidebook, consult it often and do your homework.

WalkinHome

01-25-2009, 13:45

There is no camping or campfires allowed south of the Gulf Hagas cut-off trail and north of the West Branch of the Pleasant River. This, and any other restricted areas, will be obvious when the Maine maps are updated.