View Full Version : Fire Starter: Matches or Lighter
grillmastertoo
01-24-2009, 11:58
I have read several posts where people include magnesium bars and other various striker methods to start fires...But I also see where it is suggested to carry matches or a lighter as your initial fire starting method....
My question is are there certain types of lighters or matches people prefer....ie torch types, wind proof, water proof, etc.....
thanks
Lone Wolf
01-24-2009, 11:59
I have read several posts where people include magnesium bars and other various striker methods to start fires...But I also see where it is suggested to carry matches or a lighter as your initial fire starting method....
My question is are there certain types of lighters or matches people prefer....ie torch types, wind proof, water proof, etc.....
thanks
Bic lighter. that's all i've ever used for 20+ years. no need for matches
4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2009, 12:05
I just use a bic lighter most of the time and carry a backup of either another lighter(the bic minis are good for this) or a few waterproof matches. The only problem I've ever had is when a bic lighter gets wet and the flint/striker wheel messes up, which is why I always carry some sort of backup.
I carry two mini-Bic lighters, only. The second is my back-up.
My vote is a regular bic, and a mini bic as backup, plus a long wax candle.
I've always brought both matches and lighters, thinking if one failed, the other might not.
I've never had a bic lighter fail though, though when its below 0F you have to warm them up first, and when its -20F you only have a couple of strikes before you have to warm them up again, and your hands also. The regular sized bic lighters are better in winter. A small bic could be a backup.
Its also good to bring a long candle, to light that first, then use that to light your fire, and use some of the wax if neccessary. Wood fires are alot tougher when its really cold, like 0F or -20F, because its hard to know what fuel is dry and what fuel just wet and frozen. Also, the environment sucks the heat out alot faster. If using a hobo type stove it needs to be bigger in winter, and the wood fuel needs to be alot better.
I have not had good results with those magnesium fire striker. The striker works great, but the magnesium flakes are very fussy, and harder to shave off when its really cold. Still, not a bad backup because its waterproof and fairly indestructable, as long as you don't lose the striker, and your knife to shave and strike it with. So now instead of matches I bring a magnesium thingy as backup, but I'm not really happy with it yet.
grillmastertoo
01-24-2009, 13:38
so the torch type "emergency lighters" like what Brunton makes are an overkill?.... http://www.amazon.com/Brunton-New-Firestorm-Stormproof-Lighter/dp/B000P3ICZ2 or
http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=34
i guess whatever makes you comfortable you go with, but im looking for real world experience....
I've heard some experience folks swear by small butane mini-torch type lighters. The main reason I stick with a bic is because they are readily available. I don't like trying stuff I might get, and might work great, but might not see again.
Lone Wolf
01-24-2009, 13:49
so the torch type "emergency lighters" like what Brunton makes are an overkill?.... http://www.amazon.com/Brunton-New-Firestorm-Stormproof-Lighter/dp/B000P3ICZ2 or
http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=34
i guess whatever makes you comfortable you go with, but im looking for real world experience....
yeah. way overkill
Bic lighter. that's all i've ever used for 20+ years. no need for matches
Don't you stash a book of matches?
Lone Wolf
01-24-2009, 13:57
stash them where and for what?
In the pack somewhere. Like in first aid bag. For what? dunno.
Lone Wolf
01-24-2009, 14:04
i've never used a match backpacking
Never ever ever ever? I do. Each his own. Can't use a mini bic worth a crap either. Fumbly hands.
Lone Wolf
01-24-2009, 14:13
never, ever, ever
4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2009, 14:16
...i guess whatever makes you comfortable you go with, but im looking for real world experience....
The only bad experiences I've had with bic lighters is that if they get wet sometimes the flint can grind off into the striker wheel and not produce a spark as a result of all the moisture. Sometimes it even jams up the whole assembly. Usually this happens with lighters that have been used for a while--the flint gets shorter and will even cock in the flint holder assembly and jam the whole thing up. Just seems reasonable to carry a backup of some sort--a second lighter or matches aren't more than a few grams.
I find it easier to stash a small lighter than matches. I have a waterproof match container, for carrying long wooden matches I cut down to fit and waterproofed. Too heavy, and I don't like the way the matches break, and even good ones can go out in wind before you get the candle or birch bark lit. I used to carry it around my neck, then I stashed it in my toilet paper roll, then I stashed a 2nd bic lighter there instead, but I don't carry toilet paper anymore. I do deliberately carrying the two or three firestarting items in different places though. Sucks when I discover I can't make tea. I've done that.
The lighter I am using is kept handy in my pocket. The backup mini-bic is stashed away with my candle lantern, and sometimes another in my first aid / repair kit. The magnesium thingy, if I bring that, is kicking around some damn place or other. I just haven't grown attached to that thing yet. Hoping I might lose it I guess.
I do plan on making a proper char making flint and steel kit, and use that regularly, with a stashed bic as backup. A lighter is easier, even matches are easier, but I think you can learn more from char making and using a flint and steel. Maybe not real flint and steel, which it too damned hard, but one of those magnesium thingys without the magnesium. Ferro-cerium. I have gotten better at always carrying the birch bark and spruce sticks to make my next pot of tea. I carry it in the Kelly Kettle or Hobo Stove. With a flint and steel kit it would be carried in a char making tin, filled with char for the next fire, and some char that has been soaked with wax or rendered fat, plus a minibic for when first and second attempt fails, which would be often enough at first.
I've never carried esbit tabs or cotton/vaseline as backup, just a beeswax candle, but for when its really cold like 0F or -20F I think something like that would be useful, to give the usual fuel bundle in the Hobo or Kelly Kettle a real boost. Even a full candle is not enough with sticks that might be wet or dry, as its hard to tell. It would be better to saturate something like cotton balls with the wax ahead of time. In winter if you bring bacon you could replenish your supply of small firestarted by rendering your bacon fat and saturating some natural material like moss or bark after charring it first, then storing it in your char tin after it has cooled.
Of course with an alcohol or gas stove life is easier I guess, but not my cup of tea. I have an Ion stove now though, and I like it, and it fits in as backup also. My plan though is to bring pure ethanol, which I might have to distill myself. I like the idea of carrying 100% ethanol, as a backup to sticks/bark, and also to dilute it to use it for first-aid and sanitizing.
That leads to another though. I like the hand-gel stuff, because the gel keeps it on your hands longer, which is neccessary to make it work. So I wonder what can be mixed with 100% ethanol to make your own hand-sanitizer, so you can carry just the 100% ethanol for many purposes. Some water, plus something to gel it maybe. Ideally something either available in the woods, or carried anyway. Maybe some tree sap, but that would be too sticky. Alcohol and olive oil maybe. Olive oil is also a good food and backup fuel.
The weight of the bum wipe too much?
The only bad experiences I've had with bic lighters is that if they get wet sometimes the flint can grind off into the striker wheel and not produce a spark as a result of all the moisture. Sometimes it even jams up the whole assembly. Usually this happens with lighters that have been used for a while--the flint gets shorter and will even cock in the flint holder assembly and jam the whole thing up. Just seems reasonable to carry a backup of some sort--a second lighter or matches aren't more than a few grams.I haven't had the flint fail but mini-bics are incredible hard to use when its really cold. You have to warm them up, but its your cold hands that make it hard also, so you have to keep warming them up also. You have to go deep, like into a deep warm pocket or pouch. Last time I rewarmed my hands in my mitts, but rewarmed the bic under my neck and chin against the shoulder because it needed to get warmer than my hands. That worked well but was a regular sized bic. Last year when it was that cold a mini-bic was much harder to flick, and to keep warm long enough to flick even twice. Regular sized bics are better when its cold. Wonder what Tipi-Walter uses when its that cold.
The weight of the bum wipe too much?
No. Its just a pain in the ass to bury it.
With leaves and snow and stuff you can just leave it steaming.
A bic (or similar) lighter in a zip lock.
I keep one in my day pack, first aid kit with some duct tape around it as well.
4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2009, 16:41
...Wonder what Tipi-Walter uses when its that cold...
I think he carries coals wrapped in damp leaves in an animal skin like the cavemen did.:rolleyes:
Seriously though, the guy is a far better woodsman than I. He's at home in a place I'm just a visitor. But whatever he uses, I'd bet dollars to donuts he carries a backup.
Wonder if he's ever found himself up there and forgotten his lighter or matches.
Happens to the best of them I guess, if they go often enough as he has.
The fellow in "Life and Sport" and his brother forgot there's on a winter trip,
and that was in Labrador in the days before sleeping bags and tents.
1) Lighter
2) Matches (always carried as a backup).
3) Nothing yet, I'm considering a fire piston, mostly for fun. I have a magnesium block with a striker, but shaving the mag. off the block kills your knife edge.
Bow drills are easy to make in a pinch, harder to use, but better than nothing.
For what its worth, when I used to carry matches, with a lighter as backup,
I would always use the matches that way the lighter was full for the next trip.
One Mini Bic, plus strike anywhere matches in a mini ziplock bag as back up. I had a Bic lighter jam up on me once. I couldn't get it to spark. Glad I had the back up matches.
One Mini Bic, plus strike anywhere matches in a mini ziplock bag as back up. I had a Bic lighter jam up on me once. I couldn't get it to spark. Glad I had the back up matches.
I had the striker on one fall apart while I tried to use it. I had a second lighter on that trip.
Jim Adams
01-24-2009, 17:37
1 Bic and about 5 strike anywhere matches in case the Bic flint gets wet.
geek
One regular sized lighter, the ones you can see through so I know it still has gas in it.
A small box of waterproof matches sealed in my Food Saver as a back up.
I use to carry two mini Bics but on a one week trip I had both fail and had to go to my matches to light my stove. I've never had a problem with the full sized lighters.
1) Lighter
2) Matches (always carried as a backup).
3) Nothing yet, I'm considering a fire piston, mostly for fun. I have a magnesium block with a striker, but shaving the mag. off the block kills your knife edge.
Bow drills are easy to make in a pinch, harder to use, but better than nothing.
There is no need to ruin your knife edge shaving magnesium. Use the back of the blade. Same thing with a ferro-cerium rod, or fire-steel. Use the back of the blade, not the cutting edge.
Bow drills take time and repeated use to work reliably. You have to polish the drill and the hole in the hearth board to a certain degree of smooth-ness before you can get the kind of friction necessary to get an ember under any but the most ideal circumstances.
Fire pistons are fun, and entertaining about twice. Then you catch on the to the fact that your tinder prep and fire building skills in general better be mountain man grade... a lighter with fire-steel for a backup is MUCH easier, gets your stove or fire lit, and is relatively effortless and hassle free after a day of hiking.
I don't bother carrying matches unless I'm car camping and have my Coleman lantern to contend with, and then I really just need the reach, curse those little lighting holes. In the space of 20 match sticks I can pack a mini-Bic which will light a thousand fires (or stoves), or a fire-steel and small tinder bundle with which I can light a hundred thousand fires, and I can replenish the tinder as I go. Matches you can only use the once, best case.
YMMV, HYOH, and for gods' sake carry your own gear.
Ranc0r
.
Desert Reprobate
01-24-2009, 19:11
I wonder if the bottom sections of a trekking pole could be used as a fire piston.
theinfamousj
01-24-2009, 20:07
I carry matches and a spare striking strip. I think my matches are the strike anywhere kind, but there was a strip on the box, and I cut a small (1" by 1/8") strip out of it and tossed it in the pack. I love the matches because they disappear with use and I don't have anything empty (an empty lighter) to pack out. Of course, I also like cooking over wood for the same reason.
As a back up I carry a SparkLite (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___89113?CS_003=2477120&CS_010=89113). Never had it malfunction, even in the wet. I pack cotton balls and Vaseline in my first aid kit, and a SparkLite (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___89113?CS_003=2477120&CS_010=89113) will catch any fluffed, but not Vaseline coated, area of a cotton ball.
garlic08
01-24-2009, 20:14
I also just carry a mini-Bic, at least when I remember to pack it. I guess it's a good idea to carry a backup if you're really relying on fire for survival. As a stoveless hiker, I haven't actually used a lighter (or match) for many years. And I just finished a couple hundred miles of the AZT and realized I didn't have a lighter with me the whole time--oops. It's not really needed in the desert if you're not cooking--it's just dead weight.
dash1730
01-24-2009, 20:35
I take a Bic lighter and some windproof matches in a water-tight container as backup. On one trip that didn't seem particularly humid, the lighter & matches both failed. I could only conclude that what ever the causes, they were unrelated. I was with friends who cheerfully came to my aid, but I carry a second lighter since then.
audiophile
01-24-2009, 20:47
I carry a mini-bic, pack of matches and a firesteel just for ****s and giggles.
Magic boyscout water.
http://www.family-camping-supplies.co.uk/prod_images/coleman%20fuel%20-200.jpg
Carry on.
Lone Wolf
01-24-2009, 21:18
I have read several posts where people include magnesium bars and other various striker methods to start fires...But I also see where it is suggested to carry matches or a lighter as your initial fire starting method....
My question is are there certain types of lighters or matches people prefer....ie torch types, wind proof, water proof, etc.....
thanks
the anal elite have typed. what will you use to lite your stove?
what is this match or lighter you speak of? i take a flame from another tribe's fire and carry it and feed it all day in a special box. when i get to my campsite i use it to light my cooking fire and feed it all night so i have enough flame in the morning to carry another day.
I always carry a couple of bic mini lighters as my primary fire starters. I've also developed the habit of including several baggies with simple paper book matches in them scattered around various locations in my pack. These take up little room, weigh next to nothing. I might stick one book in my first aid kit, one with the TP, a couple books with my "dry" clothes/sleeping bag. I've never needed them, but I guess I look on 'em as good insurance. They seem to stay dry and useable for many trips.
Feral Bill
01-24-2009, 22:55
Long ago I carried something like this (http://www.rei.com/product/762946). Called Metal Match back then. It was perfect for starting white gas stoves. No magnesium block needed, its just the sparker. We even used it high in the Whites in the dead of winter. I'm not sure we even carried matches :eek:. I think I'll get another.
audiophile
01-24-2009, 23:02
Long ago I carried something like this (http://www.rei.com/product/762946). Called Metal Match back then. It was perfect for starting white gas stoves. No magnesium block needed, its just the sparker. We even used it high in the Whites in the dead of winter. I'm not sure we even carried matches :eek:. I think I'll get another.
That's the exact one I have. I haven't used it to light anything yet but I keep it on the outside of my pack to jingle around and scare the bears away, :p.
traildust
01-25-2009, 16:54
both. matches weigh what? .25 oz!
I just carry 2 butane lighters, the see through type with adjustable flame. Never had one fail. I usually hike with a freind who also carries a lighter or 2 also.
StubbleJumper
01-25-2009, 21:21
I carry two mini-Bics in the summer and they work reliably for any purpose that I've needed. In the winter, they tend to be a little more difficult to work with when they're cold, so I carry wooden matches in a waterproof container. The matches are a bit more of a PITA, but they seem to work better in the cold....
I carry 2 mini-bics: one in my kitchen bag, one in the first aid kit, along with a few strike anywhere matches.
But since my canister stove has a piezo lighter on it, I haven't used a match or flicked my bic in years.
So, if you're about to pay $35 for a firestarter, allow me to offer you some stock in AIG... I'll give it to you for 10% of what I paid!
come on thats girls scout juice! =P
one bic lighter
one "light my fire" bc its just coo to start a fire with a spark and works wet cold blah blah
Magic boyscout water.
http://www.family-camping-supplies.co.uk/prod_images/coleman%20fuel%20-200.jpg
Carry on.
Just like this thread; it doesn't matter. Use whatever lights your fire:rolleyes:
oldfivetango
01-26-2009, 09:17
As a self confessed pyromaniac I must admit that I have tried just about
everything.FWIW-here's my 2 cents.
1.Fire piston is a nice "parlor trick"
2.Flint and steel works great but dont forget your charcloth
3.Matches work when dry and it is not windy.Better have a candle.
actually,a candle is GREAT no matter what you use.
4.Bow drills are alot of fun but quite bulky to carry and I would freeze to
death most likely before I could make another one in a life and death situation
but it is a great skill to have mastered.
5.The ULTIMATE magnesium device is the BLASTMATCH
6.All ya really need is a candle and two Bic type lighters and carry them
in a pants pocket or inside your socks if you dont have a pocket.
Have a candle available at all times.
That said,can't say I have ever been comfortably warm around a campfire.
So I raise the question-better to build fire when cold or to make hot soup and
drink it and then jump in bag in tent/hammock with bottles of hot water for
hands and feet?I assume the clothes are dry etc and that you have a stove and
fuel.
Oldfivetango
OldStormcrow
01-26-2009, 17:04
All you need are a couple of bics and to save all your old candle lantern stubs. Wax will even get wet wood to burn if you do it right. I did have occasion to use an old plastic Cracker Jacks toy magnifying glass to start a fire once when I found myself stuck somewhere with no fire. I still try to always carry some sort of magnifier in my wallet after that. Too bad they don't put real prizes in Cracker Jacks any more.....magnifiers, compasses, whistles, etc. Also, even a bic that is completely out of fuel will light white gas or a propane stove just with the sparks. Just sprinkle a little of the girl scout water on your kindling, strike some sparks on it and smell the knuckle hairs buring off!
Bic lighter. that's all i've ever used for 20+ years. no need for matches
Ya'll remember way back when, the first butane lighters were prone to spontaneous explosion and lots of people had a big hole blown in there leg while carrying one in their pants pocket. That's when I went back to matches.
I carry a few of the trick birthday candles for fire starters with my waterproof matches.
2Questions
01-26-2009, 22:40
I've had decent success in cold weather with this bic type lighter. The extension on it makes it easier with gloves on to like my alky stove.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/5/3/0/misc_eqp-lighter_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=30942&c=516)
2Questions
01-26-2009, 22:43
Here's a link if interested inthe Solo lighter.
http://www.basegear.com/candlelighter.html