View Full Version : Lyme Disease?
Is it something to be worried about or is it a rare catch? If it is a big factor, are nightly tick checks the biggest and only thing to prevent it? Just curious...
As somebody who has Lymes Disease and is paying out the butt for crazy antibiotics and antimalaria medication (mepron, about $500/mo) take it from me, check pretty frequently.
take-a-knee
02-03-2009, 15:28
As somebody who has Lymes Disease and is paying out the butt for crazy antibiotics and antimalaria medication (mepron, about $500/mo) take it from me, check pretty frequently.
Or get your Doc to write you a prescription for doxycycline or amoxicillin and pop a few doses everytime you pull an attatched tick off of your carcass. This is proven to work, some idiot RN will post saying I'm playing doctor no doubt, I don't have Lyme disease though.
Frick Frack
02-03-2009, 15:33
My wife & I lucked out and found a tick on one of us on only one occasion. We did not get sick like many of the nobo's we met (ironically, we knew of no sobo's who got sick but met many nobos who had been ill??). Regardless, every night we did a tick check on each other as a preventative.
Frick Frack
02-03-2009, 15:34
.....I think the mosquitoes & black flies had already sucked all the blood out of us before we got to the ticks....
Or get your Doc to write you a prescription for doxycycline or amoxicillin and pop a few doses everytime you pull an attatched tick off of your carcass. This is proven to work, some idiot RN will post saying I'm playing doctor no doubt, I don't have Lyme disease though.
Have you ever taken antibiotics for 4-months while hiking? Extended use takes one hell of a toll on your stomach.
Is it something to be worried about or is it a rare catch?
Rare or not, it's something to be taken seriously, but worrying won't reduce the risk.
If it is a big factor, are nightly tick checks the biggest and only thing to prevent it?
No, read any of the recent threads and in particular the linked MedlinePlus page (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/lymedisease.html). It mentions a number of preventative measures including permethrin and DEET.
In pennsylvania here they can get kinda insane .... I use the highest % deet normally i can find ... legs, arms and i rub some on my neck ... when i hit springs i wash myself up with a cloth so it doesn't get all gross feeling ... and apply again .. really no need to while in camp cept on your legs ... but hiking i'm sure to cover myself and check when i get to camp ... I never have gotten it, but my cousin did and i know it wasn't all that great .... DEET for sure! ... never used permethrin ...
Could you post an advisory when you intend to be "washing up" at the springs?
take-a-knee
02-03-2009, 16:53
Have you ever taken antibiotics for 4-months while hiking? Extended use takes one hell of a toll on your stomach.
The protocol is two successive doses the day the tick is removed. If you are getting an attached tick everyday you really need to be retrained or find a new place/time to hike. As for antibiotics being hard on your stomach, wait until you actually get Lyme, you'll be able to write a book about it.
take-a-knee
02-03-2009, 16:55
Have you ever taken antibiotics for 4-months while hiking? Extended use takes one hell of a toll on your stomach.
I have taken antimalarials for months at a time, they are hard on stomachs and marriages (Lariam, as in killing your wife), I never got malaria.
My apologies. I misread your post. I thought you were insinuating taking antibiotics the entire time on the trail.
Or get your Doc to write you a prescription for doxycycline or amoxicillin and pop a few doses everytime you pull an attatched tick off of your carcass. This is proven to work, some idiot RN will post saying I'm playing doctor no doubt, I don't have Lyme disease though.
Antibotics make you very sun sensative, especially doxy. I started taking doxy last year in Manchester Ctr VT for Lyme. It was very rainy for 3 weeks but some days the sun would break thru. By the time I descended no. side of Mt. Washington, I had large blisters on my hands which ran from my thumb nail along the top of my hand to the middle of my index finger. These became so painful that when I got into Gorham, NH, and checked into a motel, I had to sleep with ice packs on both hands to reduce the pain. The blisters lasted for 3 weeks after forming.
take-a-knee
02-03-2009, 17:28
Antibotics make you very sun sensative, especially doxy. I started taking doxy last year in Manchester Ctr VT for Lyme. It was very rainy for 3 weeks but some days the sun would break thru. By the time I descended no. side of Mt. Washington, I had large blisters on my hands which ran from my thumb nail along the top of my hand to the middle of my index finger. These became so painful that when I got into Gorham, NH, and checked into a motel, I had to sleep with ice packs on both hands to reduce the pain. The blisters lasted for 3 weeks after forming.
That is true, sunscreen is a must have when you are on doxycycline, and stay out of the sun if possible. Thanks for catching my slack.
buff_jeff
02-03-2009, 18:08
I think the most important thing is to be cognizant of the symptoms and to catch Lyme as soon as possible. No matter how many precautions you take, you're still always at risk for it.
Could you post an advisory when you intend to be "washing up" at the springs?
I don't wash IN the springs thank you ... a wet bandana or cloth wiping the sweat of ya ... sure no one does that ... always gotta be some who thinks they know what others are doing ...
gravityman
02-03-2009, 18:37
PERMETHRIN!
Since one one else has mentioned it - Let me say that again - PERMETHRNIN!
Spray it on your clothes, gaitors and shoes once a month starting in May. We got, one, yes, one tick between the two of us. Others were pulling off several a day (not in them, but on them).
It really works.
Gravity
Could you post an advisory when you intend to be "washing up" at the springs?
After leaving Springer and hiking hard, you will be ready for you first bath about the time you get to Low Gap shelter. The water source is a spring branch in front of the shelter. There is a nice place to wash up about a 100 yards below the shelter which will put you below where people get their water. But you better go after dark because those woods are open in the late winter.
Yep, I picked it up somewhere in Connecticut. Be aware that the disease manifests differently in different people - for me, I had a little tiny red bite on my left knee that felt like a sweat bee sting at first, and then gradually grew bigger and bigger until it was about an inch across. I wondered if it might be lyme, but I kept seeing those signs posted along the trail saying to look out for a "painless bulls-eye" rash, which wasn't at all what I had, so I just ignored it and hiked on for about three days. Bad idea - when you start to get the symptoms it gets terrible, and it is not fun to be alone in the woods when that happens. I had a hard time physically making it into town.
Also, the antibiotics make some people really sick (me), and I tried to hike out on them, which was also stupid. If you get it, wait a few days until you're patched up a little bit, or at least until your body adjusts to the medication (which was pretty quick for me). Best of all, though, use DEET or something; I used nothing.
I think this link sums up the incidence of and preventative measures against Lyme's Disease very well without a whole lot of extra technical jargon.
http://www.healthcaresouth.com/pages/askthedoctor/lyme.htm
Also, I think the vaccination idea mentioned in the article makes a lot of sense for thru-hikers: 75% effective but immunity may wane quickly. This means that if you're only going to be at risk for 6 months, it should work relatively well. Plan ahead though; the vaccination schedule takes a full 12 months, meaning that if you're thru-hiking this spring, you're outta luck. And, regardless of whether or not you opt to get the vaccine, take preventative measures.
According to FDA, SmithKline Beecham discontinued U.S. distribution of LYMErix in 2001.
Through hikers may be more likely to contract Lyme disease than the numbers indicated in the last post suggest since the general population doesn't live in the woods all day, day after day.
garlic08
02-03-2009, 19:57
Permethrin on long trousers worked great for me last year, not a single tick. I was able to go DEET-free, too. I bought Permethrin spray at Campmor and shipped it to myself in late May and late June.
gravityman
02-03-2009, 20:01
The vaccine was pulled off the market due to very bad side effects (can't remember what though).
Surprised he doesn't metion permethrin. You can't apply it to the skin because you're body metabolizes it, making it ineffective, but on clothes it stays, and works great. Same stuff in the 'Buzz-off' clothing you see (ex-officio?). But unlike deet, it doesn't make you feel 'nasty'. I hate wearing DEET, but I do when it bad. Trick is to dose it right.
Gravity
Blissful
02-03-2009, 20:39
.....I think the mosquitoes & black flies had already sucked all the blood out of us before we got to the ticks....
Not in Shenandoah if you are NOBO!!!
Shenandoah has a ton of ticks. Be prepared. Hikers have gotten LYmes by Harpers Ferry
Blissful
02-03-2009, 20:39
Permethrin on long trousers worked great for me last year, not a single tick. I was able to go DEET-free, too. I bought Permethrin spray at Campmor and shipped it to myself in late May and late June.
Yeah, I'm doing this for my clothes. Excellent idea.
buff_jeff
02-04-2009, 15:04
Since there is already a topic on this, I figured I'd just ask this here...
I didn't know much about Lyme this summer but after reading through some stuff on the web, I'm a bit concerned. I pulled at least 3 or 4 deer ticks off of me in Shenandoah this summer and got pretty sick in Harper's Ferry. I was comfortably doing 20 mile days and then struggled to do 9 to a shelter outside of HF. The next day I struggled again with symptoms of fatigue and stomach complications, so I got off trail for the summer as I was planning on stopping in HF all along. I went home and basically started feeling better immediately and didn't really experience any symptoms at all. It's now roughly 6 months later and I have some weird brain fog/ headache action going on coupled with fatigue the last few days.
Should I be worried or am I being paranoid? I've been relatively normal the last 6 months. In fact, I really can't think of anything that abnormal, but just the fact that I pulled several of those things off me and got sick a few days later makes me kind of worried, and now these weird symptoms.
According to FDA, SmithKline Beecham discontinued U.S. distribution of LYMErix in 2001.
The lesson here, as always, is that I'm an idiot.
stranger
02-04-2009, 21:19
It's a legit concern, Lyme is no joke. Permethrin is great for you clothing but doesn't work apparently for keeping ticks off your skin (ie legs) so some repellent with Deet would be recommended.
My father had Lyme before they knew much about it, and it wreaked havoc with him - they know more about it now so that's a good thing.
Keep in mind that ticks are mostly attracted to the areas of major heat sources, like arm-pits, croch and head, so you might not be able to detect them there even with daily checks.
I've read in medical journals that about 75% of those who contract Lyme never noticed the tick that gave it to them. Saying that however, Lyme is still rare but hikers are definitely more at risk on a northbound hike.
stranger
02-04-2009, 21:21
One of the symptoms of Lyme is fatigue, another is memory loss or an unclear head - I would go to the doctor.
wcgornto
02-04-2009, 21:50
Lyme is still rare but hikers are definitely more at risk on a northbound hike.
Since I am hiking SOBO this year, I have to ask: Why are northbounders more at risk than southbounders?
buff_jeff
02-04-2009, 21:56
One of the symptoms of Lyme is fatigue, another is memory loss or an unclear head - I would go to the doctor.
Yeah, I'm going to see if it goes away by tomorrow. If not, I'm going to the doc. It's just weird because the last 6 months I haven't even had my usual colds, so I'm not sure if I'm overreacting or what. No sore joints, haven't really had flu-like symptoms, and this is the first time I've gotten a headache and fatigue in 6 months.
stranger
02-05-2009, 21:29
Northbounders are more at risk because they spend a longer time in the more tick infested areas during the warmer weather.
From my understanding, and I could be wrong here, ticks are most common along the AT from northern Virginia through southern New England. And most hikers would be in those areas from end of May - August. This also means that hikers are much less likely to take precautions like long pants because the weather is so hot. However, I would be concerned with ticks heading south as well - I don't think it's anything to stress about, cause Lyme disease is still quite rare, and 80% of ticks don't have lyme (I've heard). But obviously, someone spending 5 months in the woods is much more likely to contract Lyme.
Saying that, ticks are everywhere in the east, and in 2008 people found ticks in North Carolina - but honestly, I only heard of 2 in the south. It's really not a big deal however cause if you are aware of the symptoms and tell a doctor you are thru-hiking, you will be medicine prescribed and you will kick it.
The bulls-eye rash should prompt a hiker to seek medical attention immediately and be cause enough for a physician to prescribe medication from what I gather. Other symptoms could indicate other conditions. A test too soon after infection may be negative.
Nearly everything anyone may want to know about Lyme disease is covered by the MedlinePlus page I linked in post #7 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=770851&postcount=7).
Tick check is a must. Access to anibiotics. Repellent. I picked up Ehrliciosis, nope I can't spell it, another nasty tick disease in Tennessee two years ago. Not the long effects of Lyme, but it has killed children here because it has gone undetected and into menningitis. I never get sick. I have never been that sick in my life. No rash. Nasty headache, chills, then very high fever and joint aches. The Diox. took care of it and quickly but I had get my liver enzymes checked for months. The few people I know who have had Lyme before it was really discussed have had terrible effects from it for years. I was always cavalier about ticks. Not anymore. Look for them, and if you have a companion, have him or her look for you. The ticks love the places you cannot see...your scalp, back and of course, the unmentionables. If you show any symptom, get medical treatment immediately. Ehr. took several weeks to show up.
cowboy nichols
02-06-2009, 12:01
Northbounders are more at risk because they spend a longer time in the more tick infested areas during the warmer weather.
From my understanding, and I could be wrong here, ticks are most common along the AT from northern Virginia through southern New England. And most hikers would be in those areas from end of May - August. This also means that hikers are much less likely to take precautions like long pants because the weather is so hot. However, I would be concerned with ticks heading south as well - I don't think it's anything to stress about, cause Lyme disease is still quite rare, and 80% of ticks don't have lyme (I've heard). But obviously, someone spending 5 months in the woods is much more likely to contract Lyme.
Saying that, ticks are everywhere in the east, and in 2008 people found ticks in North Carolina - but honestly, I only heard of 2 in the south. It's really not a big deal however cause if you are aware of the symptoms and tell a doctor you are thru-hiking, you will be medicine prescribed and you will kick it.
I'm in Tal. FL. and got lyme here. The Doc. I went to said she treats 25-30 cases a year and that it was rising fast. And yes it is serious.
North Carolina has plenty of ticks. We also have issues with Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, which is no picnic. I have had two dogs contract it (one who died). The first dog was not diagnosed in time by the vet for successful treatment. At the time it really wasn't heard of so I don't fault the vet. It is more common now and much more likely to recognized by vets here. The bottom line is that ticks are not something to take lightly. In my view wearing nylon long pants treated with permethrin is the way to go. I do this even in the hottest weather when hiking. If you can't deal with the long pants then at least use deet on your skin.
stranger
02-08-2009, 01:32
I would imagine ticks would flourish in a place like Florida, seems pretty ideal for them in term of landscape and weather. Didn't know there were so many in NC - kinda scary.
I know it's serious - my father had to go on IV to kick it, but that was 10 years ago, they know much more these days.
Click on symptoms (http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/lyme/lyme.htm) to learn what can be expected when Lyme disease is not treated.:-?
Last year I met a scary number of people who got Lyme's and were laid up. All I can say is, get to a doctor as fast as you can if you're having flu-like symptoms in the warm months on the trail, they'll give you doxy just in case whether you have it or not. I picked off at least a tick a day from one of us from Shenandoah to New York. In CT they started to subside. We were very lucky that we didn't get sick, because we got a lot of ticks on us. The consensus was, that the permethrin didn't seem to make a difference, and it was too hot for pants, and DEET just sweated off after 10 minutes. Just check yourself daily, and if possible check your legs immediately after walking through any tall grass from Central VA to CT.
Permethrin these:
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___82171
Wear permethrin treated socks and shoes, and treat your camp socks and long pants as well. You should have no problems. Permethrin, I have found, is also effective against flies, mosquitoes, and spiders (which are in the same family as ticks).
Permethrin is harmful to fish and other aquatic life, so don't wear treated clothing in swimming and hand wash away from streams (or, more obviously, once you get to a laundromat).
CherrypieScout
02-16-2009, 19:07
got a deer tick bite last summer in the SNF. Not on my legs or feet (buzz-off socks work!) but on my scalp. Why? Sleeping in a shelter. Mice carry 'em too. From now on - tents only for me.
datachomper
02-16-2009, 23:43
I have a friend who has a B.S. and M.S. in field biology and did a major study on Borrelia burgdorferi the bacteria which causes Lyme disease. I cannot imagine a better authoratative reference. She says "It takes 52 hours for the bacteria to travel from inside the tick into your blood. As long as you pull off any ticks you get every night, you'll be ok. Don't 'burn' ticks off, it makes them throw up and you're more likely to catch something. Oh and tuck your shirt in."
Personally I'm much more worried about Giardia or our friend Crypty