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WritinginCT
02-08-2009, 12:12
I have two dear friends that are considering a 2010 thru hike. Both men are my age (37) and met just after college and have been together over 15 years. They are both open and honest about being gay, but are not, in their own words, "flaming queens". And I should add that neither of them are big fans of PDA's. But they don't hide being gay either.

Their biggest trail concern is personal safety as it relates to homophobia and I told them I would ask here how readily accepted gay hikers are on the AT (meaning both by other hikers as well as the towns they pass through).

So do gay hikers have issues with intolerance? Or are they left alone?

Thoughts? Suggestions for them? Particular towns/places to avoid? (PM's welcome if someone is uncomfortable posting in the open forum)

And this is an honest safety question, please be respectful.

SGT Rock
02-08-2009, 12:16
In my experience most people will care less at all. That is on the actual trail. There might be the one or two guys out there that will have issues - but even then, they will keep it to themselves.

But...

Here on the Internet you will get told about this guy or that guy who is a total homophobe or something to that effect. The general issue has to do with how the Internet works and people's perception of other people gets warped by it.

So, in summary, they shouldn't have any issues. But some folks on the Internet might make them think it will be this huge issue.

Tin Man
02-08-2009, 12:20
Great post Rock. I agree 100%. No more issues on the trail than REAL life.

Biloxi
02-08-2009, 12:24
CJ,I would say tell them to go hike..yea they may come across some azzholes they are everywhere..even on the trail..but assuming they are not making out in the shelters..proubly no one would even know,just another 2 dudes hiking. but I would say it's safe..if they have been together that long, then they know how to handle such cases..but yea tell them to go hike..because who cares! I have 2 gay friends that can out hike about anyone I know..and if anyone gives them problems..they just kick the s*** out of em..lol

Vibe
02-08-2009, 12:35
So long as they do not insist on wearing speedos for hiking shorts. I only say this because our Cub Scout group had to deal with a couple like that on one hike on the Pinnacle Mountain end of the Ouchita Trail. It makes for some real interesting, and in my view, unnecessary "public" explanations to young children on the trail about subjects best discussed elsewhere. Open displays of amorousness are inappropriate on the trail even among hetero couples, as is overly revealing attire. So long as reasonable rules of decency are followed, by either mixture of couples, I would see no problems. But if they are the type that think that bad behavior by hetero couples in some way excuses bad behavior on their part, then they might run into some homophobic issues. Otherwise, I wouldn't think so.

Rockhound
02-08-2009, 13:43
So long as they do not insist on wearing speedos for hiking shorts. I only say this because our Cub Scout group had to deal with a couple like that on one hike on the Pinnacle Mountain end of the Ouchita Trail. It makes for some real interesting, and in my view, unnecessary "public" explanations to young children on the trail about subjects best discussed elsewhere. Open displays of amorousness are inappropriate on the trail even among hetero couples, as is overly revealing attire. So long as reasonable rules of decency are followed, by either mixture of couples, I would see no problems. But if they are the type that think that bad behavior by hetero couples in some way excuses bad behavior on their part, then they might run into some homophobic issues. Otherwise, I wouldn't think so.
No PDA? Proper attire? Are we talking about a Catholic school or the AT? If a couple wants to kiss let em kiss(straight or gay). If someone wants to wear a speedo let them. Is it illegal to have PDA's? Is it illegal to wear a speedo?It's one thing to be overly offensive, it's another to be too easily offended.

vonfrick
02-08-2009, 14:02
So long as they do not insist on wearing speedos for hiking shorts. I only say this because our Cub Scout group had to deal with a couple like that on one hike on the Pinnacle Mountain end of the Ouchita Trail. It makes for some real interesting, and in my view, unnecessary "public" explanations to young children on the trail about subjects best discussed elsewhere. Open displays of amorousness are inappropriate on the trail even among hetero couples, as is overly revealing attire. So long as reasonable rules of decency are followed, by either mixture of couples, I would see no problems. But if they are the type that think that bad behavior by hetero couples in some way excuses bad behavior on their part, then they might run into some homophobic issues. Otherwise, I wouldn't think so.

i don't even know where to start with this one :mad:

i'm hiking naked and making out with my boyfriend whenever and wherever i can this year.

Mr. Parkay
02-08-2009, 14:02
I can think of at least 3 openly gay thru-hikers when I hiked the trail in 2006. It definitely wasn't a big deal... In general, hikers tend to lookout for each other, gay or straight.

vonfrick
02-08-2009, 14:06
I'm not gay, and I wear Speedos, which should really frighten and offend you. Unless they've changed in recent years, the Cub Scouts are an openly homophobic organization, which offends me far far far more than any open PDA by homosexuals ever could.

agreed. i hiked with a bunch of young hetero guys this summer and was glad as hell when they had speedos mailed to them from home.

Lone Wolf
02-08-2009, 14:07
I have two dear friends that are considering a 2010 thru hike. Both men are my age (37) and met just after college and have been together over 15 years. They are both open and honest about being gay, but are not, in their own words, "flaming queens". And I should add that neither of them are big fans of PDA's. But they don't hide being gay either.

Their biggest trail concern is personal safety as it relates to homophobia and I told them I would ask here how readily accepted gay hikers are on the AT (meaning both by other hikers as well as the towns they pass through).

So do gay hikers have issues with intolerance? Or are they left alone?

Thoughts? Suggestions for them? Particular towns/places to avoid? (PM's welcome if someone is uncomfortable posting in the open forum)

And this is an honest safety question, please be respectful.
it ain't an issue on the trail or in towns

vonfrick
02-08-2009, 14:09
it ain't an issue on the trail or in towns

lucky for you

Dogwood
02-08-2009, 14:09
Politics, the economy, pros/cons of not eating meat(no pun intended), UL whores, what shoes should I wear for an AT thru-hike, gays on the AT, etc.- Wow. Welcome into the world in which we hike!

I suspect your friends R going to find the AT is not any different than most other places in the US. It's not Christopher St. in the Village or Barney Frank's bedroom, but it's not Jerry Falwell's Old Time Gospel Hour either. It's probably somewhere in the middle. Some people have more tolerance than others. Some R willing to accept the homosexual lifestyle without questioning it or having reservations. Others see it as a form of deviant behavior that goes against the laws of nature.

There is no way, one person can speak for everyone's acceptance or tolerance of two openly gay men on the AT. I wouldn't classify the AT gay friendly or homophobic. And, please understand, before U get a lot of posts about gays and the homosexual lifestyle, that I'm not trying to make a judgement of homosexuality here. I'm merely trying to relate what I think your friends will experience on the AT. I will say, that I'm fairly confident that I've met several gay male and female couples on the AT in 06. None of the couples I met were openly affectionate or forward about their lifestyles though. I think one of the female couples did hear some vocalized opinions from some section hikers so the couple decided to always camp away from shelters where the section hikers tended to congregate. I didn't sense any of the gay couples were having personal safety issues. But, U never know who U might run into. All of what I just said applies to the same vibe I got on the PCT in 08. I will tell your friends, if they want to hike the AT go do it!

Lone Wolf
02-08-2009, 14:10
lucky for you

huh?

Tin Man
02-08-2009, 14:26
lucky for you

:eek:

Jack Tarlin
02-08-2009, 14:27
There is a slight, repeat slight chance they might encounter a problem in town, but I doubt it. And as for on the Trail itself, I don't think the Trail community occupies the "middle" of the road. On the contrary, most folks out there are young, many are just out of college, and the majority are quite liberal in their politics and thinking. So I don't think your friends will have any problems at all. Will they run into the occasional idiot? Yes, of course they will. Just as they do at home. But in truth, I don't think anyone will really care, which is just as it ought to be.

Another thing to remember is that there are any number of facilities, including motels and hiker hostels, that are actually run by gay folks, so they actually might end up finding the Trail a whole lot more gay-friendly than they thought possible.

Rockhound
02-08-2009, 14:34
So long as they do not insist on wearing speedos for hiking shorts. I only say this because our Cub Scout group had to deal with a couple like that on one hike on the Pinnacle Mountain end of the Ouchita Trail. It makes for some real interesting, and in my view, unnecessary "public" explanations to young children on the trail about subjects best discussed elsewhere. Open displays of amorousness are inappropriate on the trail even among hetero couples, as is overly revealing attire. So long as reasonable rules of decency are followed, by either mixture of couples, I would see no problems. But if they are the type that think that bad behavior by hetero couples in some way excuses bad behavior on their part, then they might run into some homophobic issues. Otherwise, I wouldn't think so.
God forbid! I hope none of those poor traumatized children ever go to the beach. Thongs, speedos, string bikinis....Maybe we should just go back to the puritan days where, if a woman showed her calves she was labeled a whore, and there was no such thing as homosexual.

TOW
02-08-2009, 14:50
I have two dear friends that are considering a 2010 thru hike. Both men are my age (37) and met just after college and have been together over 15 years. They are both open and honest about being gay, but are not, in their own words, "flaming queens". And I should add that neither of them are big fans of PDA's. But they don't hide being gay either.

Their biggest trail concern is personal safety as it relates to homophobia and I told them I would ask here how readily accepted gay hikers are on the AT (meaning both by other hikers as well as the towns they pass through).

So do gay hikers have issues with intolerance? Or are they left alone?

Thoughts? Suggestions for them? Particular towns/places to avoid? (PM's welcome if someone is uncomfortable posting in the open forum)

And this is an honest safety question, please be respectful.Your friends will be welcomed in my home. Let them know when they hike thru Damascus to stop by and see me, I have a phone on the front porch with unlimited long distance and if I am alerted ahead of their arrival I will feed them also.

TOW
02-08-2009, 14:54
What is a PDA?

Lone Wolf
02-08-2009, 14:55
public display of affection

Jack Tarlin
02-08-2009, 14:55
If I'm home in mid-August, they're welcome here. too.

SGT Rock
02-08-2009, 14:56
Ohhh. I was thinking they were talking about a PDA - Personal Digital Assistant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant

I was wondering what that had to do with homosexuals.

quietly
02-08-2009, 15:03
Your friends will be welcomed in my home. Let them know when they hike thru Damascus to stop by and see me, I have a phone on the front porch with unlimited long distance and if I am alerted ahead of their arrival I will feed them also.

I think that this is the perfect reply to this question.

TOW
02-08-2009, 15:09
public display of affectionI guess I had better watch my PDA with Sally then, don't want anyone getting any ideas..........

papa john
02-08-2009, 15:13
Ohhh. I was thinking they were talking about a PDA - Personal Digital Assistant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant

I was wondering what that had to do with homosexuals.

Ditto. Took me a bit of reading to figure out otherwise...:-?

There are so many other issues to deal with out there, I can't say that worrying about someone else's sexual preferences is too close to the top for a lot of people. It's just like any other trait. You will find some people who bug the heck out of you, your options are:

1. get over it
2. get away from it

rickb
02-08-2009, 15:36
And this is an honest safety question, please be respectful.

I think that Wolf and Jack and others have probably characterized the day to day reality on the Trail correctly. They know the contemporary trail far better than I.

That said, there have been several (at least 2) very high-profile hate crimes committed against gay women on, or very near, the AT in the past 20 years.

Kirby
02-08-2009, 15:43
Didn't sense any homophobia on the trail. Know a gay person from the trail this year, he hasn't mentioned anything about any problems, but he kept it to himself.

They might encounter a person from time to time who is openly homophobic, but that will happen whether they are hiking or not.

Montana AT05
02-08-2009, 15:54
Some random thoughts:



I personally find overtely heterosexual couples annoying on or off trail (even though I went through my own PDA phase at age 18 in a BIG way *retch!*)
I personally find overtly homosexual couples equally offensive
I was around a lesbian for a few days on the AT. I knew she was a lesbian because she took every single opportunity to discuss her "partner". After each mention of partner, she would wait expectantly for me to ask if was gay. I never did. After awhile I just ran like hell because if I talked about ticks or dirty water sources, she would mention her "partner".
Hikers generally look after their fellow hikers, no matter who they are, locals--well you never know.
If you get "in-your-face" about any issue, fine, just expect "in-your-face" responses
And lastly, if you want to win friends and influence people on a thru-hike, do the following:





Make a joke about George Bush and be sure to include the words NAZI and Halliburton
Talk about how you're a Vegan

You're good to go after that.

BigBlue
02-08-2009, 15:57
I don't think they'll have any trouble on the trail or in town, go hike.
What's with the speedo thing? If a guy, straight or gay, want to wear one who cares. Traumatized by speedos give me a break.
Tell them to hike on.

Jorel
02-08-2009, 15:57
I wish I was going to live long enough to exist in a society where no one has to ask questions like this. Hopefully my grandchildren will never have to deal with these types of issues. I wish your friends a great hike, speedo or not, PDA or not. I will object, however, if either of them try to take my coffee in the morning. Gay or straight, keep your paws off my java!

TOW
02-08-2009, 16:04
I wish I was going to live long enough to exist in a society where no one has to ask questions like this. Hopefully my grandchildren will never have to deal with these types of issues. I wish your friends a great hike, speedo or not, PDA or not. I will object, however, if either of them try to take my coffee in the morning. Gay or straight, keep your paws off my java!
I'll trade you an orange for that cup of Joe?

Jorel
02-08-2009, 16:12
Sorry Wanderer....I need my coffee! Now, I probably could be persuaded to make you a cup if you asked nicely...but not every morning.

MintakaCat
02-08-2009, 16:42
Traumatized by speedos give me a break.
Tell them to hike on.

I don’t know, Coach K ban the Speedo in 2004 after Speedo Guy distracted UNC’s Jackie Manuel. Probably one of the funniest videos on YouTube. (search for Speedo Guy) Speedos are still a hot topic in the state of North Carolina.

Desert Reprobate
02-08-2009, 16:49
I promise to not wear a speedo on my hike next year. I may have my lycra bicycle shorts along though to wear at the laundry.

Tinker
02-08-2009, 16:52
Good people treat good people like good people should.
(Say that 5 times fast!).
:)

Lone Wolf
02-08-2009, 16:53
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpHB6W_r9ag

SGT Rock
02-08-2009, 16:59
Speedo guy is the pastor of this church http://www.allsoulsknoxville.com/

Vibe
02-08-2009, 17:04
If a couple wants to kiss let em kiss(straight or gay).
Kissing is one thing, groping and dry humping in the honeysuckle by the trail is quite another.

If someone wants to wear a speedo let them. Is it illegal to wear a speedo?It's one thing to be overly offensive, it's another to be too easily offended.
Well we thought it inappropriate. He thought the kids comments were offensive - one just has to wonder how the situation could have been avoided to see that kids will be kids - sometimes it just helps for adults to act like adults. I guess you just would have had to have been there to understand just how out of place the attire appeared.

Lugnut
02-08-2009, 17:38
I don't want to see any guy in a speedo no matter what his orientation is! :eek:

warraghiyagey
02-08-2009, 17:45
So long as they do not insist on wearing speedos for hiking shorts. I only say this because our Cub Scout group had to deal with a couple like that on one hike on the Pinnacle Mountain end of the Ouchita Trail. It makes for some real interesting, and in my view, unnecessary "public" explanations to young children on the trail about subjects best discussed elsewhere. Open displays of amorousness are inappropriate on the trail even among hetero couples, as is overly revealing attire. So long as reasonable rules of decency are followed, by either mixture of couples, I would see no problems. But if they are the type that think that bad behavior by hetero couples in some way excuses bad behavior on their part, then they might run into some homophobic issues. Otherwise, I wouldn't think so.
For truly perverse, we give you people who are so interested in others' sexual orientation. . . yikes


huh?
ouch. . .:p


Kissing is one thing, groping and dry humping in the honeysuckle by the trail is quite another.

Well we thought it inappropriate. He thought the kids comments were offensive - one just has to wonder how the situation could have been avoided to see that kids will be kids - sometimes it just helps for adults to act like adults. I guess you just would have had to have been there to understand just how out of place the attire appeared.
I still gotta read that book on what constitutes an adult acting like an adult. . . assuming you wrote it can you send us all a copy. . . in the mean time - hey Babe, take a walk on the wild side. . . thou needest not protesteth so much there Twinkie. . .

WritinginCT
02-08-2009, 17:49
Wow- great response! And certainly lots of food for thought here! I've directed both of them to read this (and sign up here at WB too!).

Unfortunately I wish their fear was unjustified, but one of the two was assaulted a few years ago by two guys on his community softball team when they "discovered" he was gay. They've been particularly cautious ever since.

TOW and Jack - I'll be sure to point out your invitations. :) Although I will warn you- the two of them will talk your ear off! (One of them is a history professor who files things away like a walking encyclopedia.)

On a side note- I'm really hoping that in my lifetime people won't need to be afraid to be who they are. I can see it happening, my generation is more accepting than my mother's was, and the generation after me is even more accepting of people's differences.

warraghiyagey
02-08-2009, 17:53
On a side note- I'm really hoping that in my lifetime people won't need to be afraid to be who they are. I can see it happening, my generation is more accepting than my mother's was, and the generation after me is even more accepting of people's differences.
Like other human issues we still deal with, I also hope along with you. . . it's looooooooooong past due in this species. . . good thread WCT:sun

Skyline
02-08-2009, 18:08
This topic seems to come up on Whiteblaze once or twice per year. Because gays have often experienced rejection throughout their lives by friends, family, co-workers, the church, etc. (or have become crime victims because of their orientation) it isn't surprising that they (or in this case a friend) want some advance knowledge about what to expect on the AT.

For the most part, responses here have been respectful and mostly to the point. Namely, hikers generally—I'd guess about 90% of the time—develop a live-and-let-live attitude toward fellow hikers no matter how out of the mainstream they seem to be. This goes far beyond just sexual orientation. And this live-and-let-live seems to be even more common among thru-hikers.

Your friends, as you've described them, should not experience too much overt bigotry on the Trail. They will undoubtedly find their share of trail friends within a few weeks, and most of them will not be gay. Most of them will more or less be accepting. Most of them will come to their defense if necessary, as I sense your friends would do for them.

I'd expect most of the interraction between your friends and other hikers to be centered on weather, food, elevation changes ahead, town stopovers, wildlife seen, etc.

It's a good thing that your friends are "out," as there is no lack of homophobic jokes told around campfires. But most folks refrain from this when they know there are gay folks around. Same as in the rest of society in current times.

In towns, I'd tell your friends to be a little more cautious, and not just in the over-stereotyped South. Many trail service providers (hostels, shuttlers, outfitters, motels) are accustomed to dealing with all sorts of people, and a few of these folks may even be gay themselves. In 15+ years of association with the AT, I've only heard of two instances where trail service providers made openly gay hikers feel unwelcome, and I never experienced any of that myself. Homophobia may be more likely to arise in towns when mingling with townspeople or tourists, especially if drinking (or drugs:eek:) are involved.

Gays often develop a sixth sense that warns them when danger lurks. If your friends keep this sixth sense functioning during their hike, they will likely be fine.

I've been way out of the closet since age 14, back in an era when that wasn't thought to be wise. Just could not see any value in living two separate lives, one being a self-loathing secret. But when I started section hiking the whole AT in 1996, I stayed pretty quiet about it all among other hikers. (First time in my adult life to take that approach.)

In my 7th and 8th (final) year section hiking, I decided to do a 180. Was more open about my orientation in casual conversation, and sewed a small rainbow triangle to my pack to go along with a half-dozen pre-existing patches that were about the AT, environment, etc. Nothing bad happened, and a lot of good happened. For example, that patch helped me meet and become a part of a small trail "family" out hiking in '03 which consisted of a middle-aged male couple, a younger guy who was realizing his dream of finishing the AT before succumbing (in '05) to HIV/AIDS, and his very supportive non-gay sister. As a group we also met, more casually, a few other gay (and lesbian) hikers in Maine. Our openness was the factor that allowed that to happen.

I send your friends best wishes on a successful and fulfilling hike. If they want to communicate privately with me or others who've been in their boots, please contact me through this website (e-mail, not PMs). I'd be happy to speak to them. When (not if!!!) they make it to SNP tell them to look us up.

Rockhound
02-08-2009, 18:09
Some random thoughts:



I personally find overtely heterosexual couples annoying on or off trail (even though I went through my own PDA phase at age 18 in a BIG way *retch!*)
I personally find overtly homosexual couples equally offensive
I was around a lesbian for a few days on the AT. I knew she was a lesbian because she took every single opportunity to discuss her "partner". After each mention of partner, she would wait expectantly for me to ask if was gay. I never did. After awhile I just ran like hell because if I talked about ticks or dirty water sources, she would mention her "partner".
Hikers generally look after their fellow hikers, no matter who they are, locals--well you never know.
If you get "in-your-face" about any issue, fine, just expect "in-your-face" responses
And lastly, if you want to win friends and influence people on a thru-hike, do the following:





Make a joke about George Bush and be sure to include the words NAZI and Halliburton
Talk about how you're a Vegan

You're good to go after that.

George Bush, a vegan and a gay Nazi walk into Halliburton.....Stop me if you've heard this one...

Hikes in Rain
02-08-2009, 18:19
I haven't. Please, continue!

SGT Rock
02-08-2009, 18:19
It's a good thing that your friends are "out," as there is no lack of homophobic jokes told around campfires. But most folks refrain from this when they know there are gay folks around. Same as in the rest of society in current times.

Gotta admit this is true. But they ought to know that some of us boneheads that still do this (myself included) honestly have nothing against homosexuals - far from it. My wife and I are very good friends with a lesbian couple, we kid back and forth about straights and gays. So that said, if you are around a campfire and see some guy with a crew cut make an off color joke - just zing one back at him and don't think he is too big a jerk - PLEASE.:cool:

Blissful
02-08-2009, 18:22
If they want to talk openly about being gay like at shelters, hostels, sure, as long as it's okay too for others to share about their belief in God and Jesus. :)

What they choose to practice or believe is absolutely their own personal choice.
You can love the person but disagree with their belief.

generoll
02-08-2009, 18:41
careful, Blissful. that openness is only one way.

Skyline
02-08-2009, 18:41
If they want to talk openly about being gay like at shelters, hostels, sure, as long as it's okay too for others to share about their belief in God and Jesus. :)

What they choose to practice or believe is absolutely their own personal choice.
You can love the person but disagree with their belief.


So long as the exchange doesn't downgrade to telling the other person how to live their life, all's fair. And that does go both ways.

SGT Rock
02-08-2009, 18:43
If they want to talk openly about being gay like at shelters, hostels, sure, as long as it's okay too for others to share about their belief in God and Jesus. :)

What they choose to practice or believe is absolutely their own personal choice.
You can love the person but disagree with their belief.

I recon as long as you are not trying to save anyone. A person telling you they are gay isn't going to be the same as trying to get someone to become gay.

Skyline
02-08-2009, 18:43
Gotta admit this is true. But they ought to know that some of us boneheads that still do this (myself included) honestly have nothing against homosexuals - far from it. My wife and I are very good friends with a lesbian couple, we kid back and forth about straights and gays. So that said, if you are around a campfire and see some guy with a crew cut make an off color joke - just zing one back at him and don't think he is too big a jerk - PLEASE.:cool:


Will try to keep that in mind.

Dogwood
02-08-2009, 18:45
Ohhh. I was thinking they were talking about a PDA - Personal Digital Assistant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant

I was wondering what that had to do with homosexuals.

Rock, U R not the only one. I didn't get the PDA acronym either. LOL.

Go tell your friends to have a good time hiking the AT and use their common sense about the appropriate course of action, especially in town.

Mongoose2
02-08-2009, 18:58
I believe you're friends will be fine on the trail! I live an hour or so from Amicalola, if they need a ride to the trail head in 2010, let me know.

rcli4
02-08-2009, 19:27
Skyline you pretty much ran through every stereo-type, in situation and place. Why do you think it is a good thing to where a patch on your pack that signifies who you want to sleep with? I have never found it necessary to tell folks who I was sleeping with and why. Never needed a patch to let someone know. But then I go to the trail to hike.

Clyde

neighbor dave
02-08-2009, 19:38
never bothered me, wouldn't bother me. :welcome
live free or die!

Kirby
02-08-2009, 19:43
It's pretty easy to identify friendly gay jokes from not so friendly ones.

WritinginCT
02-08-2009, 19:47
Being gay isn't something they "talk" about - it's simply who they are. They are a committed couple that have been together over 15 years and, in fact, go to church almost every Sunday. They may discuss current events the same as the rest of us, and yes, those current events may sometimes be GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bi, Transgendered for those unfamiliar with the term) related but they aren't the only issues/topics they care about. And I would expect them to care about these GLBT isssues, they are issues that directly impact their lives just the same as the rest of us follow issues that impact our individual circumstances.

And I'll preface my next statement by saying that I am an atheist. Discussion and even disagreement about religious belief is fine so long as it is respectful. Everyone has the right to their own belief system. But no one has the right to force that belief system on others. Needless to say that as an "out" atheist I am on the receiving end of a lot of proselytizing. And I often find it odd that I am expected to be accepting and tolerant but yet those on the other side are not tolerant of my beliefs (or lack thereof as the case may be).

Respect is the key I think. We would all get along so much better if we would just simply respect each other and our differences.

(and maybe leave the soapboxes at home- they definitely don't pack well ;) )

Rusty_S
02-08-2009, 19:52
I have never met a gay guy on the trail. I have met a couple of lesbian couples and they were cool. Then didn't make an issue of their sexual choices and were just out their enjoying the trail so it is after seeing discreet PDAs that we realized that they were lesbians.

Desert Reprobate
02-08-2009, 19:56
They should just do what everyone else is doing, enjoy the hike. My philosophy has always been "They may not like me but they will always remember me"

FatMan
02-08-2009, 19:59
Shouldn't be a problem at all. They might run into the occasional ahole but I suspect they are used to that where they reside and work now. If they have any problems or need a place to stay between Springer and Neels I would be happy to lend a helping hand and have them as house guests.

Rusty_S
02-08-2009, 20:00
I should be more specific that I have never met a gay guy on the trail that I knew was gay. There may be some folks that I never realized were gay.

joshua5878
02-08-2009, 20:03
I don't think they'll have any trouble on the trail or in town, go hike.
What's with the speedo thing? If a guy, straight or gay, want to wear one who cares. Traumatized by speedos give me a break.
Tell them to hike on.

I don't think speedos are the problem, its the guys that try slippin a sweet potatoe in the front. :0) Just be careful it doesn't move around to the back.... :0(

Dogwood
02-08-2009, 20:07
Everyone has the right to their own belief system. But no one has the right to force that belief system on others.

Respect is the key I think. We would all get along so much better if we would just simply respect each other and our differences.

There U go. U got it. Now, if we all really lived in such a world.

Tin Man
02-08-2009, 20:12
I have met gay couple on the trail. I have also met tall, short, fat, and skinny people. People with poles and without. Different color people, different ages, different religions, even people who filter their water. :eek:

People on the trail are reduced to being no more than what fits on their back and what they carry in their minds. Behavior is the differentiating factor, nothing else matters. That's one of the things that is great about being out there, everyone is reduced to how they act and how they treat other people. Some grow from the experience and some just never get it.

YoungMoose
02-08-2009, 20:14
i think people wouldnt mind. you would probably find some ******* who acts strange around them.

SunnyWalker
02-08-2009, 20:58
I'm a happy hiker myself.

weary
02-08-2009, 23:51
Everyone has the right to their own belief system. But no one has the right to force that belief system on others.

Respect is the key I think. We would all get along so much better if we would just simply respect each other and our differences.

There U go. U got it. Now, if we all really lived in such a world.
One problem is that most dedicated, born again, Christians believe that the only way to achieve eternal life is through belief in Christ. Most seem to feel an obligation to tell us about their beliefs and to persuade us to share their beliefs.

As I read my Bible, it strikes me that they have an obligation to do so, if they also want to be "saved."

Weary

warraghiyagey
02-09-2009, 00:02
Please. . .

TOW
02-09-2009, 07:43
TOW and Jack - I'll be sure to point out your invitations. :) Although I will warn you- the two of them will talk your ear off! (One of them is a history professor who files things away like a walking encyclopedia.)

.
We got ears, we can take it and tell them a thing or two!

Rockhound
02-09-2009, 08:55
One problem is that most dedicated, born again, Christians believe that the only way to achieve eternal life is through belief in Christ. Most seem to feel an obligation to tell us about their beliefs and to persuade us to share their beliefs.

As I read my Bible, it strikes me that they have an obligation to do so, if they also want to be "saved."

Weary
I think you've struck on what annoys most hikers about the "Holy Rollers". Gay people don't hit the trail trying to convert people to homosexuality. Drinkers are not trying to force someone with 20 years sobriety to drink. Pot smokers don't force others to get high.....

TJ aka Teej
02-09-2009, 08:57
I have two dear friends that are considering a 2010 thru hike.
Invite them on a short hike or two, and stay at a hostel. Bring 'em to Traildays and to The Gathering.
No response here can replace actual interactions.

Tolerate them? Geez... I hope they can tolerate us!

Spogatz
02-09-2009, 10:18
If I see these guys on the trail I'll only have one thing to say to them:






Enjoy your hike guys....

warraghiyagey
02-09-2009, 10:23
If I see these guys on the trail I'll only have one thing to say to them:
Enjoy your hike guys....
As it should be. . .:sun:sun:sun

Summit
02-09-2009, 10:38
I think you've struck on what annoys most hikers about the "Holy Rollers". Gay people don't hit the trail trying to convert people to homosexuality. Drinkers are not trying to force someone with 20 years sobriety to drink. Pot smokers don't force others to get high.....Be careful not to be judgmental of all professing Christians either . . . two sides to the coin! I agree there are obnoxious overzealous witnessing religious people, just as there are obnoxious gays 'with an agenda' who practice PDA in hopes of receiving either affirmation or rousing discention.

Often when asked or I divulge that I'm a follower of Jesus Christ, I'm immediately pigeon-holed as a 'Holy Roller' as you call it. I would say that stereotyping Christians is more tolerated than stereotyping just about any other group, but that's no surprise. Jesus warned us 2000 years ago about that! Case in point: this thread, which started about gay acceptance but has turned of late to Christian bashing.

As to hiking/camping with gay couples, I'd treat them like anyone else so long as their behavior did not warrant otherwise. If the campfire discussion turned to the morality of homosexuality, I'd share straightforward what the Gospel teaches on that. If anyone is interested in what that is, PM me.

2011_thruhiker
02-09-2009, 10:57
Hi CJ!

Tell them to hike it!

No matter where we go in life, some one is going to oppose us for what we are, like, do, color of skin, and sexual orientation. The trail is no different as you will find ALL walks of life hiking it.

I don't think that it really matters if someone will not like them there as much as it matters how they respond or not respond to such a person. To me, if someone can't except me for who I am, the heck with them! Cause at the end of the day-it is me I am sleeping with and not them.

So, tell them to hike it and hike their own hike-have lots of fun hiking it, hopefully I will run into them on the trail and give them a big Virginia friendly "Hi!"

Bumpa
02-09-2009, 11:23
If they want to talk openly about being gay like at shelters, hostels, sure, as long as it's okay too for others to share about their belief in God and Jesus. :)

What they choose to practice or believe is absolutely their own personal choice.
You can love the person but disagree with their belief.

Being Gay is not a belief system like religious beliefs...you are born Gay, not taught to be Gay....you are not born with religious beliefs...you acquire them. Believe it or not...there are Gay Muslims, Buddhists, Jews and Christians. It is only a matter of if they accept their sexual orientation or are forced to hide it....Heavens!!

Rockhound
02-09-2009, 11:27
I did not mean to imply that anyone with deep religious beliefs or convictions is a "Holy Roller". Just that % that feel it is there duty to preach to every person they ever meet. "There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven".

Skyline
02-09-2009, 11:44
Skyline you pretty much ran through every stereo-type, in situation and place. Why do you think it is a good thing to where a patch on your pack that signifies who you want to sleep with? I have never found it necessary to tell folks who I was sleeping with and why. Never needed a patch to let someone know. But then I go to the trail to hike.

Clyde


Clyde,

First, it's a small patch, mingled with a bunch of other patches. Together, they help tell a story about the trails I've hiked, my political pursuasions, environmental POVs, volunteerism, memberships, and who I am as a person.

The reason I put the patch you question on my pack, mostly, is to let other gay hikers or those who are gay-friendly know that one fact about me. It's about social and perhaps political comaraderie, not sexuality. It's a small rainbow triangle—not porno. Those in the know will "get it," those not will ignore it.

Sort of like why many of us put AT decals on our vehicles—we want to let other AT hikers and supporters know who we are. Sometimes it results in a wave, a horn toot, or even some spoken words at a restaurant or highway rest area.

I, too, go to the Trail to hike. Hope you weren't suggesting anything more.

Skyline
02-09-2009, 12:05
I did not mean to imply that anyone with deep religious beliefs or convictions is a "Holy Roller". Just that % that feel it is there duty to preach to every person they ever meet. "There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven".


I've never met a gay man or woman on the Trail whose agenda including "converting" anyone.

Can't say the same for Christians. Thankfully, most don't go that far but some do. It can be hurtful and sometimes hateful when one is the target of their vitriol because one was born differently than the majority.

I also have never encountered a shelter with pro-gay pamphlets littering it. Can't say the same about pro-Christian literature.

The same-gender couple referenced in the original post seem like they could handle the rare instance of condemnation or prosyletizing they might encounter on the AT. If it even happens, it probably won't be any worse than what they've already experienced elsewhere in their lifetimes. So I'll stand by my initial response and advise them to truly hike their own hike, keeping in mind that danger is always potential for anyone out there, so don't let one's guard down completely.

Before they get to Bly Gap, just north of the GA/NC border, I'll bet they will have made friends who totally accept them as they are as part of the Class of 2010. Their conversation, when it involves their status as a couple, will probably be brief and matter-of-fact. They will probably be good ambassadors for both AT hikers and gay couples. And their conversations will probably be centered on things like weather, food, and spectacular viewpoints.

Skyline
02-09-2009, 12:20
Invite them on a short hike or two, and stay at a hostel. Bring 'em to Traildays and to The Gathering.
No response here can replace actual interactions.

Tolerate them? Geez... I hope they can tolerate us!



Teej, this may be the best post on this entire thread! :cool:

Ramble~On
02-09-2009, 13:16
Myself and most of the people I know and hike with don't care if you're homophobic, heterophobic, drugophobic, boozophobic, gay, black, white, purple, asian, african, inidan, male, female, both, undecided, alien, feline, canine etc.

The AT is open to the public and as such it is expected that all users conduct themselves in no different a manner than they would in any other public setting.

No person or group of people should have anxiety about who or what they are on the AT or any other public place unless their behavior is something that would warrant anxiety.

Your religion, gender, age, income, hiking style, music preference, race, political point of view, favorite tv show, favorite color, sexual orientation, education, tattoos, body piercings etc etc etc are yours . Just as all of those things are unique to you - the same is true for everyone and none of that should effect anyone else.

What could or does become an issue? - a lack of respect for those around you sharing the same public space. Letting your dog run around without a leash in the shelter and watersource, smoking with no regard to who is having to deal with your smoke once you exhale it, being loud and obnoxious into the night when people are trying to sleep, openly doing drugs in front of everyone, swearing like a drunken sailor around kids...
- People will annoy you at some point no matter how tolerant you are.
Whether or not you keep your sex life to yourself or care to share it with everyone is entirely up to you...but it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that people will be turned off by someone or a couple who are "very open" with their partner in a public setting - hetero. or homo.
I'm not saying, "keep it in the closet"..I'm not saying, "keep it in the bedroom" I'm not even saying, "Keep it to yourself"
What I'm saying is, Keep it out of my face, offer those around you the same respect you wish for yourself.

Many Walks
02-09-2009, 13:56
Good thread and I agree with Ramble~On. I think most of us have both experienced and harbored prejudice of some type through our up-bringing, social environment, and interaction with others. Once stereotypes of any kind are established within us they're extremely difficult to overcome. I believe no one escapes this fundamental truth as we are all less than perfect. Admittedly, I continue to work on this as I've realized it's hard enough to keep track of my own business, let alone that of anyone else. I do believe the key is to assume the personal responsibility to accept others openly without hatred, fear, and prejudice if we are to find true contentment within. It is also our responsibility to be mindful of others and to not be “in your face” while expressing our views to provide a reason for them to disrespect us, as we generally get what we give. In the bigger picture it's not what others do or who they are, but more importantly, it's how we react and interact personally. Hiking the trail is an activity that should be rewarded with contentment and it would be a shame to ruin the experience with negativity of any kind. In my experience most people on the trail see others as hikers and nothing else with a common respect for all. As long as we respect others it will generally be returned. I'd say tell them to hike giving others the same respect they seek and all will be fine. Hope they enjoy the hike!

Biloxi
02-09-2009, 14:26
thought I would chime in 1 more time here, as I said earlier I don't care who or what you are, just do your thing and I will do mine. respect me ,I will respect you.I love God, but that's between me and him.. as is should be..if you don't believe,that's your business NOT mine or ANYONE else's..me and my wife have dear,dear friends that are gay,I have worked with many gay people through the years, did it effect their performance in the least NO!!! so on a hike what would it matter and really outside of just blatently flaunting your sexuality, who would know?which brings me to my next point,the rainbow...funny story: years ago I worked the grave shift 11-7am and being daylight when I went to bed,I had trouble getting to sleep cause the room was to bright..our curtains were a light color and didn't darken the room enough, so I look around for something to put over the window.my grandmother had sent us a beautiful rainbow tapestry from her vacation in hawaii .dark blue on 1 side and rainbow on the other.hung it up dark side in/rainbow out..worked like a charm..weeks later, a friend comes by to visit and ask about it,then tell's me it means I"m gay..lol..really? I just thought it looked cool from the street:) so to each his/her own.DO YOU..BE YOU...but do it with respect.go hike have fun

Mags
02-09-2009, 14:29
A good friend of mine is openly gay and has thru-hiked quite a bit. Him being gay is like saying my favorite color is green. He does not define himself by being gay any more than I define myself by being straight. It is just another fact about him that really does not change how I view him as a person.

We hike, ski and hang out together (along with our other friends) and generally enjoy each others company.

On the trail, I suspect the reaction will be similar. Just another set of smelly, dirty and happy hiker trash. :)

As others said, if I see them on the trail, I'll just wish them a good hike.

Cheers!

Re: Rainbow Tapestry

For many years, my Mom had a keychain with her name on it. There was a rainbow over it. About 15 yrs ago, I remember her telling me that some woman was hitting on her! I had to explain to my very blue-collar Catholic Mom what the rainbow meant and why a woman was hitting on her. Awkward for me... :)
My Mom, needless to say, had an ah..interesting reaction. She has not used the rainbow key chain since. ;)

Sly
02-09-2009, 14:29
I have no problems with gays, but I'm not too happy they appeared to have taken over the rainbow. How's that start?

CowHead
02-09-2009, 14:30
If only the world was like the trail- where everyone equal-smelly and happy to share

MOWGLI
02-09-2009, 14:30
I have no problems with gays, but I'm not too happy they appeared to have taken over the rainbow. How's that start?

Judy Garland. :p

Rockhound
02-09-2009, 15:43
I have no problems with gays, but I'm not too happy they appeared to have taken over the rainbow. How's that start?
Isn't there another "rainbow" group? A bunch of rich kids spending their parents money, Growing dreads, not bathing, hitting the bong and playing the bongos rainbow group?

Sly
02-09-2009, 15:45
Isn't there another "rainbow" group? A bunch of rich kids spending their parents money, Growing dreads, not bathing, hitting the bong and playing the bongos rainbow group?

I've heard, never been, sounds like fun.

Tinker
02-09-2009, 15:50
What happens when you forget the words to "Somewhere Over the Rainbow"....

Somewhere over the rainbow, skies are blue,

Birds fly over the rainbow, why then, o why don't you. ......... :p

Skyline
02-09-2009, 15:53
Isn't there another "rainbow" group? A bunch of rich kids spending their parents money, Growing dreads, not bathing, hitting the bong and playing the bongos rainbow group?



a/k/a Hiker Trash. :welcome :sun :eek:

firemountain
02-09-2009, 15:58
Isn't there another "rainbow" group? A bunch of rich kids spending their parents money, Growing dreads, not bathing, hitting the bong and playing the bongos rainbow group?


Yes, that is the Rainbow Family of Living Light. Basically hippies that live on the road. and meet up around the country to live in the woods for a while. They usually panhandle and dumpster dive in nearby towns and attract negative attention.

Lone Wolf
02-09-2009, 16:10
Isn't there another "rainbow" group? A bunch of rich kids spending their parents money, Growing dreads, not bathing, hitting the bong and playing the bongos rainbow group?

Trustafarians

Slimer
02-09-2009, 16:43
"trustafarians"

lmao!!
Thats priceless...and also the truth.

rcli4
02-09-2009, 16:47
Their conversation, when it involves their status as a couple, will probably be brief and matter-of-fact. They will probably be good ambassadors for both AT hikers and gay couples. And their conversations will probably be centered on things like weather, food, and spectacular viewpoints.[/QUOTE]

Skyline you missed my point and then repeated it. YOU are stereo-typing Gays and Christian in this post. The only thing you know about these folks are that they are gay, yet you make the assumption above. You are as bad or worse then the idiots from the other side. How do you know folks are born gay? Don't come on here posting stereo-typing gays and christians. You should know better. Folks postin, Come stay with me, be my friend and such dribble. Just because they are gay, they are all right. They are people-hikers no more no less. Treating folks different because they are gay is wrong, it dosen't matter if you are nicer or meaner, if you do it just because they are gay, you are a bigot.

Clyde

D'Artagnan
02-09-2009, 17:04
I guess I'll never understand why people get so worked up over who someone else chooses to spend their life with. If the original poster's friends like to walk for months at a time, swat at a sometimes-endless barrage of bugs, sweat, stink like roadkill, carry a pack, eat, sleep, and go to the bathroom in the woods, then I say "Welcome!"

Ramble~On
02-09-2009, 17:04
Isn't there another "rainbow" group? A bunch of rich kids spending their parents money, Growing dreads, not bathing, hitting the bong and playing the bongos rainbow group?

Actually it started out and still is to many an Earth Friendly, ECO family that has evolved into a big party. The roots are still there but in too many cases there's a crowd of younger folks who are simply there for the party side of it...live off the soup kitchens rather than supporting them and bring the sterotype.

- Your description reminds me of a large population of Asheville, NC:sun though most work instead of the mommy/daddy thing.

A rainbow patch, sticker or anything else doesn't mean "Gay Pride" or "I'm Gay" it's just a rainbow...A symbol for gays is two joined male or female symbols, or the lambda . - A rainbow flag....might be a gay thing yeah but not just a rainbow.

http://www.lambda.org/symbols.htm I'm not sure who decided that the rainbow was a gay symbol...but I didn't vote for it. It might be a "secret code" symbol but if you want a symbol to stand behind and profess your sexual orientation to all the world and /or advertise...how about a symbol that avoids all confusion.

orangebug
02-09-2009, 17:04
I doubt that this is likely to be an issue. I have a fairly "out-there" friend who slack packed with a number of likeminded chums back in 2006, completed the trail and had few issues. There was one problem of an older hiker attempting to hit on them, but really little different from unwanted attention other hikers have experienced and managed.

I anticipate it to be a non-issue on trail.

Jack Tarlin
02-09-2009, 17:15
Geez, rcli4.

Over the years, I've put up hundreds of hikers. Old, young, black, white, Northbound, Southbound, you name it.

And I've never inquired about one's religion or sex life either, as neither topic is any of my damned business.

But if I can, and I'm around, I like to help folks out in a small way.

What a shame you find this attitude to be "dribble".

Tell ya what.

Next time you find yourself hiking thru Hanover, stay at the Inn. True, rooms start at around $250.00, but I think you'll be happier there.

God forbid you stay with dribblers or other objectionable sorts.

Lone Wolf
02-09-2009, 17:18
Geez, rcli4.


Next time you find yourself hiking thru Hanover, stay at the Inn. True, rooms start at around $250.00, but I think you'll be happier there.



or keep on goin'. not much of a trail town

Jack Tarlin
02-09-2009, 17:21
Yep, not much here.

Please tell us how many times you've actually BEEN here in recent years, Wolf.

Maybe if it was more than once or twice, you might have a different opinion.

But I doubt it......

Lone Wolf
02-09-2009, 17:23
Yep, not much here.


no laundry, no outfitter, no cheap hostel or motel for starters

A-Train
02-09-2009, 17:26
no laundry, no outfitter, no cheap hostel or motel for starters

Yes but beautiful college women abound. That was a nice change for a 19 yr old emerging from 4 months in the woods.

Lone Wolf
02-09-2009, 17:27
Yes but beautiful college women abound. That was a nice change for a 19 yr old emerging from 4 months in the woods.

ya got a point there

Jack Tarlin
02-09-2009, 17:32
Dunno why the lack of a hostel is a problem since Wolf has repeatedly told us they all suck and that he doesn't stay in them......and there are actually several outdoor stores in town that have everything you need.

Truly, it's been awhile. Wolf needs to drop by more than once or twice every decade. :rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
02-09-2009, 17:34
Dunno why the lack of a hostel is a problem since Wolf has repeatedly told us they all suck and that he doesn't stay in them......and there are actually several outdoor stores in town that have everything you need.

Truly, it's been awhile. Wolf needs to drop by more than once or twice every decade. :rolleyes:

i was thinkin' of other hikers. hanover is too expensive and doesn't offer much

Rockhound
02-09-2009, 17:45
Their conversation, when it involves their status as a couple, will probably be brief and matter-of-fact. They will probably be good ambassadors for both AT hikers and gay couples. And their conversations will probably be centered on things like weather, food, and spectacular viewpoints.

Skyline you missed my point and then repeated it. YOU are stereo-typing Gays and Christian in this post. The only thing you know about these folks are that they are gay, yet you make the assumption above. You are as bad or worse then the idiots from the other side. How do you know folks are born gay? Don't come on here posting stereo-typing gays and christians. You should know better. Folks postin, Come stay with me, be my friend and such dribble. Just because they are gay, they are all right. They are people-hikers no more no less. Treating folks different because they are gay is wrong, it dosen't matter if you are nicer or meaner, if you do it just because they are gay, you are a bigot.

Clyde[/quote]
Don't really see what you are upset about. Someone inviting hikers to dinner? Don't really see the problem there. I would call it hospitality not dribble. I'd have to ask Skyline but I suspect he has broken bread with both straight and gay people. As for the "born gay" bit, just like hair color, eye color, height, susceptibility to certain diseases etc... scientists have found a gene that predisposes people to certain lifestyle choices. Yes there is a gay gene. This may be how Skyline knows people are born gay.

Lone Wolf
02-09-2009, 17:51
I anticipate it to be a non-issue on trail.

it never has been an issue. much ado over nothing

Jack Tarlin
02-09-2009, 17:53
There's no cheap place to stay, but then, that's true of any number of places......Kent, Salisbury, Manchester Center, Bennington, etc. For lodging, most folks either share a motel room (usually the Sunset), or there's great free tenting at the edge of town.

Laundry is also a problem, tho both the Sunset and the Chieftain motels have laundry services. Lately, hikers have been sharing a cab for a few dollars and going to the spotless facility just out of town.

But other than no hostel and no laundromat, I'd have to say this is a pretty great hiker town.

In no particular order:

*Lots of very hiker-friendly restaurants, including places that welcome folks
just off the Trail
*Several AYCE Buffets
*The best movie theater on the Trail
*Several great bookstores
*The best coffee shop on or near the Trail
*Several good outdoor stores, and free bus service to bigger ones in the
next town
*Free bus service to enormous nearby shopping malls
*Several pharmacies
*A great veterinarian
*All sorts of banks
*The Trail's friendliest Public Library
*The best beer and tobacco selection on the whole Trail
*Three good pizzerias, including a place that gives free slices to hikers!
*An art Museum (also free).
*Friendly locals, including some who offer hospitality to hikers
*Oh, did I mention all the sidewalk cafes where one can enjoy the local,
shall one say, scenery?

Honestly, all things considered, I think Hanover is a great Trail town.

But then, I guess I'm sorta biased. I hiked in one afternoon, and never left.

Lone Wolf
02-09-2009, 17:55
There's no cheap place to stay, but then, that's true of any number of places......Kent, Salisbury, Manchester Center, Bennington, etc. For lodging, most folks either share a motel room (usually the Sunset), or there's great free tenting at the edge of town.

Laundry is also a problem, tho both the Sunset and the Chieftain motels have laundry services. Lately, hikers have been sharing a cab for a few dollars and going to the spotless facility just out of town.

But other than no hostel and no laundromat, I'd have to say this is a pretty great hiker town.

In no particular order:

*Lots of very hiker-friendly restaurants, including places that welcome folks
just off the Trail
*Several AYCE Buffets
*The best movie theater on the Trail
*Several great bookstores
*The best coffee shop on or near the Trail
*Several good outdoor stores, and free bus service to bigger ones in the
next town
*Free bus service to enormous nearby shopping malls
*Several pharmacies
*A great veterinarian
*All sorts of banks
*The Trail's friendliest Public Library
*The best beer and tobacco selection on the whole Trail
*Three good pizzerias, including a place that gives free slices to hikers!
*An art Museum (also free).
*Friendly locals, including some who offer hospitality to hikers
*Oh, did I mention all the sidewalk cafes where one can enjoy the local,
shall one say, scenery?

Honestly, all things considered, I think Hanover is a great Trail town.

But then, I guess I'm sorta biased. I hiked in one afternoon, and never left.

this is the gay thread. get back on topic. go start another thread about your beloved hanover :rolleyes:

Rockhound
02-09-2009, 17:56
at least go back to the Laurel fork thread

Lone Wolf
02-09-2009, 17:57
at least go back to the Laurel fork thread

it's been decided that Braemer Castle is the better place to stay.
back to gay

max patch
02-09-2009, 18:00
Honestly, all things considered, I think Hanover is a great Trail town.



But to stay on topic...is Hanover gay friendly?

Rockhound
02-09-2009, 18:02
I keep thinking of "Stripes" when they are enlisting and the recruiter asks, "Are either of you homosexual?"........."you mean flaming?"......."no, but were willing to learn"

Ramble~On
02-09-2009, 18:10
But to stay on topic...is Hanover gay friendly?

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~gsa/ Meetings Wednesdays at 9:00

http://newhampshiregaysingles.com/

rcli4
02-09-2009, 18:24
Jack,

Inviting hikers to stay at your place is a great thing. If you twist hard enough you can make this about anything you want. The "Dribble" was folks inviting someone to their place because they are gay. That is all the info you had when you invited them. Maybe that is all you need to know. That is your business. If so, I was outta line sorry, if not "Dribble" is a nice way to put it.

Clyde

Rockhound
02-09-2009, 18:29
and I thought it was because they were hiking.

generoll
02-09-2009, 18:44
it's been decided that Braemer Castle is the better place to stay.
back to gay

True? Do they shuttle?

KG4FAM
02-09-2009, 18:52
True? Do they shuttle?
I am not on the cutting edge so this may be a dumb question. What is "shuttle" gay slang for?

Lilred
02-09-2009, 19:15
Jack,

Inviting hikers to stay at your place is a great thing. If you twist hard enough you can make this about anything you want. The "Dribble" was folks inviting someone to their place because they are gay. That is all the info you had when you invited them. Maybe that is all you need to know. That is your business. If so, I was outta line sorry, if not "Dribble" is a nice way to put it.

Clyde

Hey Clyde,
In all fairness to Jack, I have on numerous occasions seen Jack offer his place to a hiker when they're in Hanover. If I've read a post that someone was going to be in Hanover, I've read Jack offering his place, or a shuttle, or something.

Same goes for Lone Wolf, TOW, and a few others on here who are constantly helping out hikers.

To the OP, you're seeing more drama in this thread then you'll ever see on the trail. Tell your friends I say 'Happy Hiking'.

Lilred
02-09-2009, 19:16
I am not on the cutting edge so this may be a dumb question. What is "shuttle" gay slang for?

I think he was asking if Braemer Castle has shuttle service?? I could be wrong but that's not any slang I know of.

Jack Tarlin
02-09-2009, 19:19
rcl:

No harm, no foul, but, no, you're quite wrong when you say I had no information about these guys except that they were gay.

I had some other significant information, and that's that they were hiking this year.

In my book, and unless I hear something verifiably horrible about someone who's hiking, then that's enough information for me, and they're welcome to stay at my place.

The fact that they are on the Trail (and have arrived in Hanover, after hiking either 1736 or 442 miles to get there!) is why they're welcome to enjoy what limited hospitality I can provide.....

The fact that they might be gay has nothing to do with it.

And quick note to Max Patch, who asked: Hanover is the quintessential small college town. It also happens to be the quintessestial small New England college town, drawing most of its students from the Northeast. The two largest employers are the college-connected medical facility, and the college itself. There's a very liberal mindset here: Of the 7500 -odd folks who voted in town in the Presidential election, Obama beat McCain 6140 to 1328.

So the answer to your question is yeah, Hanover is one of the most liberal communities in New Hampshire and is friendly to gays. In fact, it's friendly to everyone.

saimyoji
02-09-2009, 19:20
Is it true there's no laundromat in Hanover? :eek:

generoll
02-09-2009, 19:23
I think he was asking if Braemer Castle has shuttle service?? I could be wrong but that's not any slang I know of.

I think our resident ham was trying to speak tongue in cheek. Hope he didn't bite himself. Some folks are just determined to stamp out thread creep.

KG4FAM
02-09-2009, 19:26
I think he was asking if Braemer Castle has shuttle service?? I could be wrong but that's not any slang I know of.
That makes sense, what doesn't make sense is that it is in the "Tolerance of gay hikers" thread

Tin Man
02-09-2009, 19:29
Is it true there's no laundromat in Hanover? :eek:

that would make hanover dirty hiker clothes unfriendly

Christus Cowboy
02-09-2009, 19:48
WritinginCT... This thread has many interesting thoughts. I do think it is quite unfortunate that your friends are concerned about personal safety but obviously they have had some personal experience to warrant the concern. If my experience section hiking is an indicator, I don't believe there will be a problem.... in fact in the course of their travels they will probably wind up having the same complaints as their hetero counterparts.... blisters, weather, gear issues, or some inconsiderate behavior in general. While the southern part of the country is generally more conservative toward these issues, I believe your friends will be pleasantly surprised to find that southern hospitality will be extended to them and their kindness reciprocated if they just show a little respect for the communities that they travel through.... You can also find some interesting information on the thread listed below where I posted on an entry made by a homosexual by the name of Needles (He's on Whiteblaze and you may want to contact him for his perspective). The thread may be a good one to have your friends to read as well....

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=672630#post672630

At any rate, Needle's experience was in stark contrast to the prevailing opinion that many in the gay community have of the southern part of the country and I'm hopeful that will be the experience of your friends as well. With that said, I thought I would throw my 2 cents in some other thoughts posted on this thread.....


Some random thoughts:
I personally find overtly heterosexual couples annoying on or off trail
I personally find overtly homosexual couples equally offensive
I was around a lesbian for a few days on the AT. I knew she was a lesbian because she took every single opportunity to discuss her "partner". After each mention of partner, she would wait expectantly for me to ask if she was gay. I never did.
After awhile I just ran like hell because if I talked about ticks or dirty water sources, she would mention her "partner".
If you get "in-your-face" about any issue, fine, just expect "in-your-face" responses

I have to generally agree with Montana here.... the watchword being here is kindness and respect. Whether it is a lesbian who constantly ties every unrelated topic of conversation to her "partner", or overt public displays of affection whether it be homosexual or heterosexual, or the Amway salesman who turns every conversation on the trail into a full blown presentation of their products that need to be purchased, or the overzealous Christian who engages in "Christian mugging" rather than just living out their faith with humility, or the atheist who becomes argumentative and demeaning to those who happen believe in the existence of God, or the nude hiker who doesn't care if they hike naked in the presence of small children... Each of these cases illustrate a condition where someone has elevated the exercise of their preferences or beliefs above the hiking experiences of others. Yet in most of these cases, with a little bit of discretion, maturity, kindness, and respect, most of these preferences can be accomodated without having to trample on the hiking experience of others.... After all there's 2,175 miles of trail certainly there's enough space to allow for such a diversity of hiking experiences...


One problem is that most dedicated, born again, Christians believe that the only way to achieve eternal life is through belief in Christ. Most seem to feel an obligation to tell us about their beliefs and to persuade us to share their beliefs.

As I read my Bible, it strikes me that they have an obligation to do so, if they also want to be "saved."
Weary

Weary... one of the things that I appreciate about your posts is that they are generally well thought out... I'll have to give you credit here as you have a pretty good grasp on what mainstream Christians believe. I would like to add a couple of points for the purposes of clarification and then try to bring this discussion around to the original point.

In respect to Christians feeling an obligation to tell others about their beliefs, this concept is generally tied to a passage of Scripture commonly referred to the Great Commission which is found in Matthew 28:16-20 should anyone wish to look it up.

In respect to Christians being required to share these beliefs with others or else they won't be "saved", salvation in the Christian sense is not predicated on "works" such as prosyletizing or any other work for that matter but rather on the concept of grace. This concept of grace can be found in Ephesians 2:8-9.


Often when asked or I divulge that I'm a follower of Jesus Christ, I'm immediately pigeon-holed as a 'Holy Roller' as you call it. I would say that stereotyping Christians is more tolerated than stereotyping just about any other group, but that's no surprise. Jesus warned us 2000 years ago about that! Case in point: this thread, which started about gay acceptance but has turned of late to Christian bashing.

I agree and I too have had this experience as well, though I would have to say that it is very rare on the trail... Regrettably, hollywood has made this mentality quite fashionable... Ironically, I have had conversations with homosexuals on this very point and have found them to be quite sympathetic. Even though we differed on questions of morality, they understood all too well the sterotyping that takes place. I guess sometimes life experiences have a unique way of establishing common ground even between those with divergent views. The trail has a way of doing that as well.... and I'm sure your friends will find that to be the case....

TOW
02-09-2009, 19:48
Jack,

Inviting hikers to stay at your place is a great thing. If you twist hard enough you can make this about anything you want. The "Dribble" was folks inviting someone to their place because they are gay. That is all the info you had when you invited them. Maybe that is all you need to know. That is your business. If so, I was outta line sorry, if not "Dribble" is a nice way to put it.

Clyde
Personally I don't give a damn if your gay, straight, transgendered or whatever walk of life you come from you are welcomed usually in my home, unless you conduct your attitude as an jackass. Then you can get on down the road.

I think your jumping to an assumption that you think those of us who have offered have offered because your friends are gay, am I reading you right? If not explain what you really meant.

Tinker
02-09-2009, 19:55
that would make hanover dirty hiker clothes unfriendly

There's definitely one just outside of Han(g)over, on Rte. 10, I believe, as I took Wrongway and Peanut there to do clothes last summer.

YoungMoose
02-09-2009, 20:03
i dont understand why people are making a big deal of it. so what they are a homo. we are all interested in backpacking. its hard enough to find people thats interested in this type of stuff.

MOWGLI
02-09-2009, 20:07
i dont understand why people are making a big deal of it. so what they are a homo. we are all interested in backpacking. its hard enough to find people thats interested in this type of stuff.

Out of the mouths of babes....

That's a compliment from before your time, kid.

Tinker
02-09-2009, 20:09
I think that we all need to remember that we all started life as human beings first.
Maybe we should continue to live as human beings first.
I used to be a self-righteous "born again" s.o.b. (truth hurts, don't it?), until I realized that hate is the very opposite of the God which I considered to be love, and that He, alone, is Judge. Since this revelation in my life, I've become a lot more "tolerant" of those who are different than I am, with the goal of showing, personally, "what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us" to all, even those who consider God and His followers their sworn enemies. The Lord Jesus commanded us to "love our enemies." I now consider this to mean "those who make us their enemies", not "those who "deserve" to be our enemies. We deserve nothing. We have so much. We should be intensley thankful to someone, something, that our lives change from being self-centered and self-serving to being other-centered and other-serving. Life is too short to hate and judge those different than we are. The apostle Paul was once "Saul", a murderer of Christians. God forgave him and loved him. His writings state that "Love covers the multitude of sin". It's not that we don't have to repent of our sins, it is that, once we repent, our sins are covered and remembered no more.
Love. :)

YoungMoose
02-09-2009, 20:11
Out of the mouths of babes....

That's a compliment from before your time, kid.lol

Lone Wolf
02-09-2009, 20:12
oy vay! :rolleyes:

YoungMoose
02-09-2009, 20:13
oy vay! :rolleyes::banana

Dogwood
02-09-2009, 20:22
WOW I knew this thread was going to get heated. I think I'm going to turn the TV on to hear the Democrats and Republicans argue over the "stimulus" package and who's at fault for the current state of the economy.

YoungMoose
02-09-2009, 20:23
WOW I knew this thread was going to get heated. I think I'm going to turn the TV on to hear the Democrats and Republicans argue over the "stimulus" package and who's at fault for the current state of the economy.I agree. too bad im tired of hearing it 24/7

Lilred
02-09-2009, 20:25
I think our resident ham was trying to speak tongue in cheek. Hope he didn't bite himself. Some folks are just determined to stamp out thread creep.

I need a smiley or sumptin to let me know these things. :o

WILLIAM HAYES
02-09-2009, 20:27
should not be an issue as long as they are not flamers and into PDA's in shelters and around others which is just as inappropriate behavior for MF couples as well .. tell them to go hiking and have a great time

Hillbilly

hootyhoo
02-09-2009, 21:15
Are we not all humans? Do we not all deserve the right to peace? Why does it matter what sexually preference, color, age, gender?
And why are some people mean to animals?

Sly
02-09-2009, 21:16
Not talking amorous sex here but, we see PDA with hetrosexual couples all the time, people hugging, kissing each other. Is the trail off limits, or just PDA with gays?

SGT Rock
02-09-2009, 21:17
I think on the trail we all pretty much do get peace. We can walk away from those that annoy us. We tend to all be in the same boat so we respect what other people are going through. Towns are just something we pass through - so the occasional idiot is someone we can laugh at 2 days later with 30 miles between us and them.

Hiking is freedom.

Tinker
02-09-2009, 21:26
Not talking amorous sex here but, we see PDA with hetrosexual couples all the time, people hugging, kissing each other. Is the trail off limits, or just PDA with gays?

PDAs are uncomfortable for many people, especially if the display is intended to be so, straight or gay. If I happen upon a couple in this situation, I apologize for the intrusion and quickly get on my way. Exhibitionism is a willful intrusion on the privacy of others, and usually receives a very cold shoulder. Being considerate of othes, either way, is most appreciated.

SGT Rock
02-09-2009, 21:28
Screw it. If anyone wants to do PDA - just sit down in a very obvious manner, open up a drink, and start eating gorp while staring. Maybe start taking some pictures.

Jaybird62
02-09-2009, 21:32
I think on the trail we all pretty much do get peace. We can walk away from those that annoy us. We tend to all be in the same boat so we respect what other people are going through. Towns are just something we pass through - so the occasional idiot is someone we can laugh at 2 days later with 30 miles between us and them.

Hiking is freedom.


10-4 Buddy. Great Post.

saimyoji
02-09-2009, 21:42
Screw it. If anyone wants to do PDA - just sit down in a very obvious manner, open up a drink, and start eating gorp while staring. Maybe start taking some pictures.

Pervert. :p

Post 'em on youtube.

Tinker
02-09-2009, 21:45
Screw it. If anyone wants to do PDA - just sit down in a very obvious manner, open up a drink, and start eating gorp while staring. Maybe start taking some pictures.

HMMMMMMMMMMM.....................:-?
:sun Idea.:D

1Pint
02-09-2009, 21:53
Skyline you missed my point and then repeated it. YOU are stereo-typing Gays and Christian in this post. The only thing you know about these folks are that they are gay, yet you make the assumption above. You are as bad or worse then the idiots from the other side. How do you know folks are born gay? Don't come on here posting stereo-typing gays and christians. You should know better. Folks postin, Come stay with me, be my friend and such dribble. Just because they are gay, they are all right. They are people-hikers no more no less. Treating folks different because they are gay is wrong, it dosen't matter if you are nicer or meaner, if you do it just because they are gay, you are a bigot.

Clyde

Clyde -

I don't get why you seem so worked up about people offering their homes to two particular hikers when "trail angels" do it all the time. The most important thing we know about WalkingCT's friends is that they are both hikers contemplating a long distance hike on the AT. I am comfortable stereotyping them as good people until they prove otherwise.

Peace,
Laura/1Pint

rcli4
02-09-2009, 22:03
Clyde -

I don't get why you seem so worked up about people offering their homes to two particular hikers when "trail angels" do it all the time. The most important thing we know about WalkingCT's friends is that they are both hikers contemplating a long distance hike on the AT. I am comfortable stereotyping them as good people until they prove otherwise.

Peace,
Laura/1Pint

I think stereo typing of any kind is wrong.

Clyde

streakerofAT
02-09-2009, 22:10
i think its fine

Rockhound
02-09-2009, 22:10
I think stereo typing of any kind is wrong.

Clyde
You people are all the same.

sheepdog
02-09-2009, 22:11
I think stereo typing of any kind is wrong.

Clyde
What about mono typing??

sheepdog
02-09-2009, 22:12
I think stereo typing of any kind is wrong.

Clyde
or two finger typing??

TOW
02-09-2009, 22:13
I think stereo typing of any kind is wrong.

ClydeI think you are just on here stirring the pot........I got news for you we all stereo type certain groups of people and we all judge others, it is part of our survival techniques that we all possess.

Tinker
02-09-2009, 22:18
To quote my former co-worker at Home Depot at the end of a particularly trying day, "Dan, people suck!"
Yes, we do! ;)

Slo-go'en
02-09-2009, 22:21
or two finger typing??

Thats stereo typing. Or is it typing while lisening to the stereo? :-?

I see were into the silly phase now. Full moon outside! (or close to it)

saimyoji
02-09-2009, 22:25
i vote most of this thread be moved to the no fun on wb thread.

Tinker
02-09-2009, 22:26
i Vote Most Of This Thread Be Moved To The No Fun On Wb Thread.

Overruled!!!! ;)

Jaybird62
02-09-2009, 22:33
I think you are just on here stirring the pot........I got news for you we all stereo type certain groups of people and we all judge others, it is part of our survival techniques that we all possess.


Human Nature. It does'nt make it right, but we all got it in us. Unconditonal love is the only cure:sun

MOWGLI
02-09-2009, 22:35
I know it's off topic, but I saw the film Milk last week. Sean Penn will be winning his second Oscar for that performance. It is a VERY good film. I highly recommend it.

SunnyWalker
02-09-2009, 22:47
Well, I don't compartmentalize my faith in Christ. So my faith is a part of everything I do, even hiking and camping. In this issue the thing for me is not that these friends of WritingCT are homosexuals, but that they or others might try to get me to accept them (their lifestylve or moral choices). That I won't do. Now if I am labled a homophobic that is unfair. I would in turn think you were maybe . . . a "Christofobic"? Really, it is unrealistic for me personally to expect everyone I meet on the trail to "approve of my lifestylve" and or accept me. In this world of the AT there are going to be a few that won't "like" me or "approve" of me and who or what I am. That's OK, I can live with that. I would hope WritingCT's friends to do the same. They will enjoy their hike more. As for meeting them or others in a similar situation, it has never been a problem for me personally. I will share the fire, shelter, campsite, etc., with anyone and be a friend and helper in any way I can. Blissful hit it on the head though. If I share my beliefs or opinions on anything, I must expect others to do the same and it may be different then my thoughts. Well, I opened the door so I must listen to them as they listened to me. As far as danger? I have never seen anyone assaulted or even verbally attacked on a trail over an issue like this. If this happened to these folks, I would help them as I would try to help anyone.

Skyline
02-09-2009, 23:03
Skyline you missed my point and then repeated it. YOU are stereo-typing Gays and Christian in this post. The only thing you know about these folks are that they are gay, yet you make the assumption above. You are as bad or worse then the idiots from the other side. How do you know folks are born gay? Don't come on here posting stereo-typing gays and christians. You should know better. Folks postin, Come stay with me, be my friend and such dribble. Just because they are gay, they are all right. They are people-hikers no more no less. Treating folks different because they are gay is wrong, it dosen't matter if you are nicer or meaner, if you do it just because they are gay, you are a bigot

Clyde



Chill, Clyde.

You are reading too much into my words. I only have the original poster's description of this couple to go by, and without proof to the contrary I take her at her word. They seem like two very stable individuals who comprise a very stable couple. If this turns out not to be the case, the Trail grapevine will let us know soon enough, next year when they thru-hike. Until then, give them the benefit of any doubt you may have, OK?

I hope you don't think I believe all Christians persecute gays. I do know better. But most of the attempts to silence gays, make them invisible (closeted) again, roll back the few gains we've made over the last two generations, and impede progress to full equality do have roots in Christianist movements in our culture. Some other parts of the world it may be Islamist or Orthodox Jewish activists calling the shots, but here in the US it's mostly Christian. It's become an industry.

I used the word "probably" three times in the paragraph you chose to quote. You do understand that when one uses "probably" it infers an opinion, not a statement of fact, right?

Anyway, back to the original post: I wish the couple well, and offer my unique insight—and assistance if they need it. I've shown the same consideration to lots of hikers who I knew were not gay, or didn't know where they fit on the Kinsey scale, so please don't imply that I would single this couple out just because they self-identify as gay.

TOW
02-09-2009, 23:16
Human Nature. It does'nt make it right, but we all got it in us. Unconditonal love is the only cure:sun
there is no such thing as unconditional love..........:sun

Skidsteer
02-09-2009, 23:19
there is no such thing as unconditional love..........:sun

Sure there is. Look at your avatar.

TOW
02-09-2009, 23:21
Sure there is. Look at your avatar.whoa, good point...........thanx

then let me say this, there is no such thing as unconditional love in we humans.........

sheepdog
02-09-2009, 23:25
there is no such thing as unconditional love..........:sun
Lock your dog and your wife in the trunk of your car. See who is happy to see you when you open it in an hour. That's unconditional love.

SunnyWalker
02-09-2009, 23:32
Only Wanderer: and how about your line there: " . . . stop by and see me when you come thru town and tell me about your life. . . " ??

Skyline
02-09-2009, 23:38
The rainbow flag has become one of the most widely used and recognized symbols of the gay equality movement. The concept of the rainbow is hardly a new one. Rainbows have used since ancient times in all kinds of cultures- Greek, African, Native American and Celtic, to name only a few. Even Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition has made use of the rainbow as a freedom symbol. And of course, it was used (still is, I think) as a symbol for the back-to-earth "Rainbow People."

It was designed as a flag to symbolize the annual gay parade in San Francisco in late June, 1978. These events started in 1970 in NYC to commemorate a political protest and riot one year earlier that is generally recognized as the catalyst for the modern gay equality movement. The rainbow flag has since been adopted as such worldwide.

As for the triangle: Before rainbows symbolized the struggle (and celebration) for equality, there was the pink triangle. It was first used by Hitler and his ilk to mark gays destined for gas chambers in the same way yellow triangles identified Jews. Among the six million humans who perished during the Holocaust, 200,000 were reportedly gays.

In the early 1970s, gay activists wore the pink triangle as a symbol of protest—to demonstrate how extreme oppressors can become if left unchecked. When the rainbow was adopted several years later, the rainbow triangle was just a natural progression. It is now a more lighthearted symbol than its predecessor, the pink triangle, was.

Bulldawg
02-09-2009, 23:41
You people are all the same.


Who is "YOU PEOPLE"?

warraghiyagey
02-09-2009, 23:44
Who is "YOU PEOPLE"?
The stereotypical set. . .

No Belay
02-10-2009, 01:01
whoa, good point...........thanx

then let me say this, there is no such thing as unconditional love in we humans.........

I'd take the time to argue with you over that but I'm to busy packin. Not everyone has an agenda. See you in a couple days...

TaTonka

SGT Rock
02-10-2009, 08:21
So in conclusion: stereotyping stereotypers is bad MmmmKay.

warraghiyagey
02-10-2009, 08:42
Not all stereotypers are the same. . .

TOW
02-10-2009, 08:47
I'd take the time to argue with you over that but I'm to busy packin. Not everyone has an agenda. See you in a couple days...

TaTonka
Now that I have given this some thought, perhaps I need to rethink this.....:-?

Newb
02-10-2009, 08:49
this thread has become tired.

warraghiyagey
02-10-2009, 08:52
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-pictures-cat-limits-your-computer-access.jpg

Jaybird
02-10-2009, 09:15
Who gives a s**t what a hiker's sexual preference is????

It's not affecting my hike...Enuff said

warraghiyagey
02-10-2009, 09:19
Who gives a s**t what a hiker's sexual preference is????

It's not affecting my hike...Enuff said
Agreed. . . one's interest in another's sexual preference seems much more perverse than the so-called morality issue that the "holy" set attach to it.

Lone Wolf
02-10-2009, 09:20
ok mods, time to shut this BS down :rolleyes:

superman
02-10-2009, 09:25
This thread is gay.

warraghiyagey
02-10-2009, 09:42
ok mods, time to shut this BS down :rolleyes:
Sounds like Wolfie's startin to feel a little sensitive. . . http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-love049.gif

camojack
02-10-2009, 09:47
sounds Like Wolfie's Startin To Feel A Little Sensitive. . . http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-love049.gif
Nttawwt... :d

warraghiyagey
02-10-2009, 09:49
Nttawwt... :d
True. . .

Lyle
02-10-2009, 10:22
Isn't there another "rainbow" group? A bunch of rich kids spending their parents money, Growing dreads, not bathing, hitting the bong and playing the bongos rainbow group?

My apologies, I'm a day late to this party, but this post just made me remember a humerus story.

Back in the late 80's/early 90's I worked for Vision Quest which runs outdoor based programs for court-placed juvenile delinquents (they have a Wilderness Camp on South Mountain in PA, right on the AT).

Anyway, I was the medical person on one of the three-week quests which included backpacking, rock climbing, running, solo, and other components. We were down in Florida, hiking the FT when we came across the Rainbow People having one of their Gatherings. Should have seen the eyes bug out on our 13-18 year-old young men as we hiked right through their encampment. To say that total nudity and open pot smoking was the norm would be an understatement! They were also very friendly and engaging.

That day we hiked several miles farther than planned, so as to reduce the temptations of our young VQers. Needless to say, the Rainbow People were a hot topic of discussion for several days.

ki0eh
02-10-2009, 10:43
As far as danger? I have never seen anyone assaulted or even verbally attacked on a trail over an issue like this.

It did happen, nearly 19 years ago, in what we hope was a different time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Wight

Sly
02-10-2009, 11:07
PDAs are uncomfortable for many people, especially if the display is intended to be so, straight or gay. If I happen upon a couple in this situation, I apologize for the intrusion and quickly get on my way. Exhibitionism is a willful intrusion on the privacy of others, and usually receives a very cold shoulder. Being considerate of othes, either way, is most appreciated.

Of course you shouldn't be banging uglys in public or in a shelter, I'm not talking about trying to make someone uncomfortable. If you're in public with your wife, do you purposely not hold hands, hug, or kiss (not passionately making out)? You see it all the time.

I guess it all depends on the level of passion that makes people uncomfortable.

Lone Wolf
02-10-2009, 11:28
Sounds like Wolfie's startin to feel a little sensitive. . . http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-love049.gif

nah, just the same 'ol dead horse non-issue

WritinginCT
02-10-2009, 12:21
Of course you shouldn't be banging uglys in public or in a shelter, I'm not talking about trying to make someone uncomfortable. If you're in public with your wife, do you purposely not hold hands, hug, or kiss (not passionately making out)? You see it all the time.

I guess it all depends on the level of passion that makes people uncomfortable.

I'm SO not a fan of public displays. I've been with my husband 12 years and we rarely hold hands in public. Just not our thing.

-----

I would point out one major difference between a gay couple exhibiting affection in public (ie the hand holding, hugs, light kisses) versus a hetero couple exhibiting the same behaviors that is that the hetero couple typically does not have worry about their actions risking personal injury/assault if intolerant people see it. Violence against gay people for the most innocent of displays is very real.

And before anyone nay-says me - I had mentioned previously that one of my two friends was assaulted. The assault came about when his partner and I dropped him off at his community softball game. A light peck goodbye was shared by the two through the open car window. Apparently two other guys on his team caught the exchange and hadn't known he was gay- and shared their displeasure with him after the game by breaking 3 of his fingers, cracking 2 ribs, and in general turning his face into a lump of hamburger. It was a long, long night in the emergency room.

So when I ask if they are likely to experience intolerance along the trail, I guess what I am really asking is if there is the above level of homophobia and hatred. Bad jokes, religious discussion/argument, even having slurs thrown their way are all things they can readily deal with. Physical violence is something else altogether.

Skyline
02-10-2009, 12:26
nah, just the same 'ol dead horse non-issue


The original post was a legitimate question about a legitimate concern that many openly gay hikers probably have. Some of the responses have been well thought out and, I think, may have answered the original poster's questions.

We've also had black hikers, solo female hikers, and other folks ask similar questions here over the years. Those were legitimate, too. The replies to those questions were often just as helpful and appropriate. WB does a great service by helping the original posters and all who read these threads become better informed about these issues.

As discussion boards on the internet often do, the thread has meandered in several ways from the original topic so if that's what you're referring to you have a point.

Slimer
02-10-2009, 12:30
No rainbow patches or stickers for me.
That type of thing is absolutely disgusting and sickening. Ok, now bash away.

Skyline
02-10-2009, 12:35
No rainbow patches or stickers for me.
That type of thing is absolutely disgusting and sickening. Ok, now bash away.


What could we add to your post that would make it any clearer what you are?

jersey joe
02-10-2009, 12:38
I'm not sure that I ever knew or cared to know the orientation of any of the backpackers I met on my thru hike. I doubt that a hiker would have much of a problem on the trail because they were gay. Very unlikely they would have an issue in towns either, though, I suspect there is likely to be more intolerance in the south then in the north.

Tinker
02-10-2009, 13:32
I'm not sure that I ever knew or cared to know the orientation of any of the backpackers I met on my thru hike. I doubt that a hiker would have much of a problem on the trail because they were gay. Very unlikely they would have an issue in towns either, though, I suspect there is likely to be more intolerance in the south then in the north.

O boy, not that "South vs. North" thing again. Don't EVEN go there! :rolleyes:

Slo-go'en
02-10-2009, 13:37
Something which hasn't been talked about yet here is the fact that a thru hike puts a big strain on any kind of relationship. That will likely be thier biggest problem.

the goat
02-10-2009, 13:50
I'm SO not a fan of public displays. I've been with my husband 12 years and we rarely hold hands in public. Just not our thing.

-----

I would point out one major difference between a gay couple exhibiting affection in public (ie the hand holding, hugs, light kisses) versus a hetero couple exhibiting the same behaviors that is that the hetero couple typically does not have worry about their actions risking personal injury/assault if intolerant people see it. Violence against gay people for the most innocent of displays is very real.

And before anyone nay-says me - I had mentioned previously that one of my two friends was assaulted. The assault came about when his partner and I dropped him off at his community softball game. A light peck goodbye was shared by the two through the open car window. Apparently two other guys on his team caught the exchange and hadn't known he was gay- and shared their displeasure with him after the game by breaking 3 of his fingers, cracking 2 ribs, and in general turning his face into a lump of hamburger. It was a long, long night in the emergency room.

So when I ask if they are likely to experience intolerance along the trail, I guess what I am really asking is if there is the above level of homophobia and hatred. Bad jokes, religious discussion/argument, even having slurs thrown their way are all things they can readily deal with. Physical violence is something else altogether.

i think it's all been said here; but i'll say this anyways: if you have a problem with anyone because of their sexual orientation, it says more about your intelligence level, and your own insecurities than anything else.

"live and let live" is the prevailing mindset that your friends are likely to encounter on the trail. i wish them a great hike!

chuck and tigger
02-10-2009, 14:05
The offers of hospitality I just read from at least 2 posts are just a sample of the tolerance your friends will find on the AT, I'd say. Hikers and the hiking community are some of the most accepting, caring, helpful people I have ever met. Tigger

Sly
02-10-2009, 14:12
I'm SO not a fan of public displays. I've been with my husband 12 years and we rarely hold hands in public. Just not our thing.

-----

I would point out one major difference between a gay couple exhibiting affection in public (ie the hand holding, hugs, light kisses) versus a hetero couple exhibiting the same behaviors that is that the hetero couple typically does not have worry about their actions risking personal injury/assault if intolerant people see it. Violence against gay people for the most innocent of displays is very real.


No one should be afraid of showing affection to the one they love. Rather than worry about if someone is gay and think it repulsive, they should consider their own lack of compassion and understanding.

The violence is what should be condemned, not the affection.

snowhoe
02-10-2009, 14:13
I dont like gay people unless they are flaming that way I know they are gay. I hate it when they try to hide being gay. I dont really like what they stand for but if one of them where in trouble on the trail I would help them. I tend to try to steer away from the whole thing that way every one is comfortable. I dont like what you stand for and you dont like what I stand for. Good enough for me.

Rockhound
02-10-2009, 14:14
I think this issue has been covered. On the trail nobody cares about your sexual or religious affiliations. Everyone is a hiker and shares that common bond. Now if you don't mind I might ruffle a few feathers. There is the opposite extreme. Some people love to play the victim. They will rant and rave about all the persecution they suffer every minute of every day because of all the hate and bigotry out there even if they themselves have never experienced it first hand. This group will also flaunt their religion or sexual orientation at every opportunity in an attempt to get attention. Let me repeat. Nobody cares about your religious or sexual affiliations. If you want attention go on American Idol. Nobody wants to see a couple guys chasing each other around the shelter in their banana hammocks calling everyone bigots while a fire and brimstone preacher is outside delivering a sermon damning them to hell. Just as nobody wants bad trail dogs barking and growling all night after he's pissed on everones pack and taken a dump right in front of the shelter. Just as nobody wants bad drunks getting belligerent, getting in everyones faces, puking outside the shelter and keeping everyone awake until 3:00 a.m.. Just as nobody wants to arrive at a shelter that looks like the van from "Fast Times at Ridgemont High". It comes down to 2 words I've have seen mentioned earlier. Individual Responsibility

Sly
02-10-2009, 14:15
Chuck and Tigger! How are you? It was great meeting both of you last year on the PCT.

Sly
02-10-2009, 14:17
I dont like gay people unless they are flaming that way I know they are gay. I hate it when they try to hide being gay. I dont really like what they stand for but if one of them where in trouble on the trail I would help them. I tend to try to steer away from the whole thing that way every one is comfortable. I dont like what you stand for and you dont like what I stand for. Good enough for me.

That's about the most ignorant post I've read on Whiteblaze. Congratulations.

snowhoe
02-10-2009, 14:20
Sly it sounds like you have something up your butt?!?!?

Rockhound
02-10-2009, 14:21
I dont like gay people unless they are flaming that way I know they are gay. I hate it when they try to hide being gay. I dont really like what they stand for but if one of them where in trouble on the trail I would help them. I tend to try to steer away from the whole thing that way every one is comfortable. I dont like what you stand for and you dont like what I stand for. Good enough for me.
I guess this is the exception that proves the rule. I suspect that the women he has met over the years have realized that they were lesbians at the same moment he started talking to them. What an amazing coincidence.

snowhoe
02-10-2009, 14:23
Wow its amazing how quick my post gets deleated. Sly you have a problem, your right and everyone is wrong I dont like gays and you are mad about it.

Jack Tarlin
02-10-2009, 14:28
Ever asked yourself why they trouble you so much or does the question hit a little close?

Just askin'.

Surely there are more improtant things to obsess about.

Rockhound
02-10-2009, 14:29
Snowshoe, refer to Goats post #194. That about says it all

WritinginCT
02-10-2009, 14:29
Before this thread gets locked - I just wanted to say thanks for everyone's thoughtful answers. I know this was a sensitive subject to bring up. And it was nice to hear that I shouldn't have to worry about them if they choose to make that trek from ME to GA. :sun (lol well no more worrying than normal anyway! ;) )

Sly
02-10-2009, 14:29
Wow its amazing how quick my post gets deleated. Sly you have a problem, your right and everyone is wrong I dont like gays and you are mad about it.

I have a problem? I've met a few gays and not all are flamers like you seem to believe.

Keep making a fool of yourself, it's OK to let everyone know, just in case they have to deal with you in person someday.

Rockhound
02-10-2009, 14:32
Before this thread gets locked - I just wanted to say thanks for everyone's thoughtful answers. I know this was a sensitive subject to bring up. And it was nice to hear that I shouldn't have to worry about them if they choose to make that trek from ME to GA. :sun (lol well no more worrying than normal anyway! ;) )
YOU NEVER SAID THEY WERE SOUTH BOUNDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! That changes everything. They should be tarred, feathered drawn and quartered!

Jack Tarlin
02-10-2009, 14:32
Note to moderators:

This is a good thread, and it probably is useful to lots of folks, some of whom probably won't post on the subject, but are interested nonetheless.

Please keep the thread open.

WritinginCT
02-10-2009, 14:35
YOU NEVER SAID THEY WERE SOUTH BOUNDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! That changes everything. They should be tarred, feathered drawn and quartered!

:eek: eek! My bad- they will be NOBO. I'm the one contemplating a SOBO. bwhahahaha

Christus Cowboy
02-10-2009, 14:42
I'm not sure that I ever knew or cared to know the orientation of any of the backpackers I met on my thru hike. I doubt that a hiker would have much of a problem on the trail because they were gay. Very unlikely they would have an issue in towns either, though, I suspect there is likely to be more intolerance in the south then in the north.

The validity of this statement would probably depend on how you define "intolerance".... If you define "intolerance" as just merely disagreeing with a particular lifestyle choice then maybe jersey's point can be made in his reference to the south, but I'm not sure I would want to see it defined so broadly. After all the freedoms we enjoy in this country will ensure that different communities may hold differing opinions about a wide variety of things.... The issue comes into play with how we treat others with divergent points of view.... Do we have the capacity to disagree and still be civil, and extend kindness to a fellow human being in spite of the differences? Or do we become demeaning or commit violence?....

I would agree that the south is generally more conservative on some of these issues but culturally there's a hospitality found in the south that I believe people of all persuasions have found quite refreshing... I'm not posting to debate this point because I'm sure there are notable exceptions both north and south of the Mason/Dixon line. But I'll let Needles make my point for me......

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=672630#post672630

snowhoe
02-10-2009, 15:15
I think its pretty funny that you all seem to know so much about me and I dont think I have met any of you. I think that the problem with you guys and the liberal media is that as soon as some one says something that you dont like its time to start the bashing fest. I dont care if you like me or not. I believe what I believe and no one is going to change my mind. No matter how much you try to say I am gay. It only makes you look like the one who is gay because you are supporting it.

Gray Blazer
02-10-2009, 15:20
If you read post 187, one of the guys already got beat up, broken fingers, ribs and a face turned into hamburger, not to mention a night in the ER. And I assume this was in Connecticut since it happened at their community softball game. Southern intolerance, indeed.

Jeepocachers
02-10-2009, 15:21
I think its pretty funny that you all seem to know so much about me and I dont think I have met any of you. I think that the problem with you guys and the liberal media is that as soon as some one says something that you dont like its time to start the bashing fest. I dont care if you like me or not. I believe what I believe and no one is going to change my mind. No matter how much you try to say I am gay. It only makes you look like the one who is gay because you are supporting it.

This sounds like a case of I'm rubber, yer glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you :rolleyes:

Ender
02-10-2009, 15:25
I think its pretty funny that you all seem to know so much about me and I dont think I have met any of you. I think that the problem with you guys and the liberal media is that as soon as some one says something that you dont like its time to start the bashing fest. I dont care if you like me or not. I believe what I believe and no one is going to change my mind. No matter how much you try to say I am gay. It only makes you look like the one who is gay because you are supporting it.

AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Wow, intollerance is awesome.

Rockhound
02-10-2009, 15:59
I think its pretty funny that you all seem to know so much about me and I dont think I have met any of you. I think that the problem with you guys and the liberal media is that as soon as some one says something that you dont like its time to start the bashing fest. I dont care if you like me or not. I believe what I believe and no one is going to change my mind. No matter how much you try to say I am gay. It only makes you look like the one who is gay because you are supporting it.
We can only go by what you post and based on that you are a narrow minded, ignorant bigot. It's what happens in cyber world. You might be completely different in person. Who knows? After my posts people peg me as some smartazz, sarcastic, know-it-all kid. Then when they meet me in person they find out I'm actually 41. My advice, live and let live and if anyone meets Snowshoe on the trail be sure to flame it up a little as we now know how much he hates those undercover gays.

Kanati
02-10-2009, 16:11
Great thread. It has served it's purpose. Nothing left to be said. Time to close it down.

Skyline
02-10-2009, 16:29
Note to moderators:

This is a good thread, and it probably is useful to lots of folks, some of whom probably won't post on the subject, but are interested nonetheless.

Please keep the thread open.


Couldn't have said it better. Thanks Jack.

Gaiter
02-10-2009, 16:56
It only makes you look like the one who is gay because you are supporting it.

I don't know, but umm, it seems you may have missed the memo:

BUT ITS 2009, GROW UP

Rockhound
02-10-2009, 17:14
Snowshoe, There was an incident that happened in your home town several years back. There were a couple of kids who felt ridiculed, persecuted, ostracized to the point where they decided to get revenge on there teachers and fellow students. Imagine if people simply accepted them for who they were and lived and let live. Hate and violence only breeds more hate and violence. Let it go.

Sly
02-10-2009, 17:47
It only makes you look like the one who is gay because you are supporting it.

So everyone that is tolerant of gays is gay too? That must also make me black.

snowhoe
02-10-2009, 17:49
Your black? I thought you were mexican!

Rain Man
02-10-2009, 17:53
I would point out one major difference between a gay couple exhibiting affection in public (ie the hand holding, hugs, light kisses) versus a hetero couple exhibiting the same behaviors that is that the hetero couple typically does not have worry about their actions risking personal injury/assault if intolerant people see it. Violence against gay people for the most innocent of displays is very real.

Can't tell for sure who said the above, but I'd add a thing or two.

It wasn't so long ago that mixed-race couples commonly had the same fears all over our great Nation. And of course the bigots decried mixed-race couples.

And at some times in some places, heaven help a mixed-religion couple, and I'm not speaking of a good Baptist boy with one of those heathen Methodist girls. (Or is it the other way around? LOL) I'm speaking of Christian-Jewish, Christian-Muslim, etc. Of course bigots decry that (and even each other).

Sad thing is, there seems to be bigotry in every age and every place. Good thing is, things seem to be improving over time and in stages, though obviously we have a long ways to go. But there are plenty of good people in the world.

And as many have pointed out, the AT seems pretty darn GOOD about such things. It's a great equalizer. Few ask for your credentials to see if you are the "right kind" of human being before accepting you as a fellow hiker and just as God made you.

Rain Man

.

Jaybird62
02-10-2009, 19:11
there is no such thing as unconditional love..........:sun


Just one.....

TOW
02-10-2009, 19:11
Something which hasn't been talked about yet here is the fact that a thru hike puts a big strain on any kind of relationship. That will likely be thier biggest problem.
They'll find out for sure if they love each other or not that's for sure.........:D

TOW
02-10-2009, 19:18
I think its pretty funny that you all seem to know so much about me and I dont think I have met any of you. I think that the problem with you guys and the liberal media is that as soon as some one says something that you dont like its time to start the bashing fest. I dont care if you like me or not. I believe what I believe and no one is going to change my mind. No matter how much you try to say I am gay. It only makes you look like the one who is gay because you are supporting it.
Gee whiz, give it a break snow........:rolleyes:

TOW
02-10-2009, 19:20
My advice, live and let live and if anyone meets Snowshoe on the trail be sure to flame it up a little as we now know how much he hates those undercover gays.I think I'll just grab him and give him a big ole bearded french kiss while I am chewing some tobacco...........:banana

TOW
02-10-2009, 19:22
Great thread. It has served it's purpose. Nothing left to be said. Time to close it down.
I disagree, lets keep it going.....

Jack Tarlin
02-10-2009, 19:40
Actually, a quick study of this thread reveals precisely what folks were saying about conditions on the Trail:

Which is that most folks in the Trail community are fair; open-minded; non-judgmental; non-bigoted; mind their own business; don't care about other people's personal lives, and tend to be kind, considerate, and receptive to meeting and spending time with all sorts of differtent folks.

That being said, everywhere you go, sooner or later you'll trip over some complete ignorant.......

Well, y'all can probably figure out the rest. :rolleyes:

rickb
02-10-2009, 19:49
It did happen, nearly 19 years ago, in what we hope was a different time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Wight

Lets also remember the two young women who were killed just off the AT in SNP since then.

snowhoe
02-10-2009, 19:51
No jack I think their are ALOT of people that feel like me but dont want to judged by people like you! What you are saying is " I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG YOU DONT LIKE IT I WILL BASH YOU AND YOUR BELIEVES UNTIL YOU SUBMIT" I wont submit to something I know is wrong, and you and your liberal buddies can shove it up ..... well y'all can probably figure out the rest :) I said I would help them if they were in trouble what elese do you want?

Jack Tarlin
02-10-2009, 19:52
Rick:

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the Shenandoah homicide (which was not on the A.T. by the way) had anything whatsoever to do with the sexual identities of lifestyles of the victims.

I am not playing down how horrible this incident was; I'm merely saying that portraying it as some sort of anti-gay hate crime is at odds with the evidence.

If I'm wrong, correct me.

Jack Tarlin
02-10-2009, 19:54
Snow:

If you really think I'm some kind of flaming liberal, then all I can say is I don't think you know enough about me to judge me, OK?

Believe me, there are more than a few folks here who can tell you exactly how "liberal" I am. :D

snowhoe
02-10-2009, 19:56
You dont know me either.

SGT Rock
02-10-2009, 19:58
Exactly.

And if you think I am a liberal (or some of the others who have posted) are liberals because we happen to think Homosexuals have the same rights as everyone else - you need to re-calibrate your brain-housing group.

Dances with Mice
02-10-2009, 20:01
I said I would help them if they were in trouble what elese do you want?Good boy, you'd make a fine Samaritan.

And how would you treat them if they didn't need help?

Jaybird62
02-10-2009, 20:01
Exactly.

And if you think I am a liberal (or some of the others who have posted) are liberals because we happen to think Homosexuals have the same rights as everyone else - you need to re-calibrate your brain-housing group.



10-4. Free will is a God-given choice that no man has a right to change. Period....

ed bell
02-10-2009, 20:03
Exactly.

And if you think I am a liberal (or some of the others who have posted) are liberals because we happen to think Homosexuals have the same rights as everyone else - you need to re-calibrate your brain-housing group.

Well said, as usual. I would also like to remind everyone about Rock's first post on this thread.


In my experience most people will care less at all. That is on the actual trail. There might be the one or two guys out there that will have issues - but even then, they will keep it to themselves.

But...

Here on the Internet you will get told about this guy or that guy who is a total homophobe or something to that effect. The general issue has to do with how the Internet works and people's perception of other people gets warped by it.

So, in summary, they shouldn't have any issues. But some folks on the Internet might make them think it will be this huge issue.

snowhoe
02-10-2009, 20:04
Sorry dont know what a brain-housing group is? (let the bashing begin on that) Dude I dont care about their rights. They need to do what they want to do but it ticks me off that so many people speak out for them when they know its wrong. I WOULD HELP THEM IF THEY WERE IN NEED OF HELP! I do not agree what they do with each other and dont do it around me.

Jack Tarlin
02-10-2009, 20:05
Jaybird's right.

If so they choose, free will provides folks with the opportunity to hate other people.

Seems to me, tho, that Jesus Christ taught otherwise.

SGT Rock
02-10-2009, 20:08
Sorry dont know what a brain-housing group is? (let the bashing begin on that) Dude I dont care about their rights. They need to do what they want to do but it ticks me off that so many people speak out for them when they know its wrong. I WOULD HELP THEM IF THEY WERE IN NEED OF HELP! I do not agree what they do with each other and dont do it around me.
Brain-housing group. Army term for how you think...


I guess this is where you diverge from the rest of us conservatives - we don't judge them for one aspect of how they live and relate that to a value judgement of how much respect or freedom they should get.

Apparently you have decided since you are not gay - being different from you is wrong. And since we have stuck up for them you have labeled us as also gay, liberal, and also wrong.

So, I'll say this. You have said your piece. Have proved that there are some people out there that will have a problem with them, and are now attempting to derail this thread. I recommend you make the last post you made on this thread be the last post you will make on this thread. And that ain't some liberal telling you that.

snowhoe
02-10-2009, 20:10
He did he said a marriage between a woman and a man. Not stick to stick or well to well. I dont hate them I dont like that they are gay. Wow I think I am the whipping boy!

rickb
02-10-2009, 20:11
Rick:

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the Shenandoah homicide (which was not on the A.T. by the way) had anything whatsoever to do with the sexual identities of lifestyles of the victims.

I am not playing down how horrible this incident was; I'm merely saying that portraying it as some sort of anti-gay hate crime is at odds with the evidence.

If I'm wrong, correct me.

Those interested in the specifics of this case, including the locations proximity to the AT (very close and connected), can Google them up. I am on a PDA so I can't help.

Plenty of info in both gay and straight publications can be found.

More questions than answers in the end, but many are convince this was every bit as much a hate crime (of the worst possible sort) as with the Wright murder- where the perp admitted his loathsome motivations as well as his deeds.

Google it.

Bearpaw
02-10-2009, 20:12
Jack and Rock are liberals? :confused: Now that's funny. :rolleyes:

SGT Rock
02-10-2009, 20:13
Jack and Rock are liberals? :confused: Now that's funny. :rolleyes:
And apparently since we stick up for gay people we are also gay.:rolleyes:

snowhoe
02-10-2009, 20:14
Read post number 204 I am also gay according to Jack.

Jaybird62
02-10-2009, 20:17
If so they choose, free will provides folks with the opportunity to hate other people.

Seems to me, tho, that Jesus Christ taught otherwise.[/quote]



For sure..... "the self righteous need not apply" Steve Taylor

SGT Rock
02-10-2009, 20:19
Read post number 204 I am also gay according to Jack.
Dude, you moan that you are now the whipping boy but you keep on asking for it. Quit playing the martyr. You chose to come over here so I guess you enjoy attention.

So, again, just stop and let it go.

Jack Tarlin
02-10-2009, 20:23
I never said anyone here was gay.

Not by business, and I could care less.

But any psychiatrist will tell you that a lot of folks who display animosity or open hatred towards people who follow different lifestyles than their own are often personally conflicted and suffer their own manifest insecurites on these particular issues. When people obsess over this sort of thing, and dwell on it, there are often undrlying reasons for this.

Nicely worded, no?

And needless to say, not directed at any particular person.

Dances with Mice
02-10-2009, 20:43
He did he said a marriage between a woman and a man. Not stick to stick or well to well. I dont hate them I dont like that they are gay. Wow I think I am the whipping boy!And who said they were married?

So you don't like that they are gay. Fine, I've no problem with that. However, actions speak louder than words. How would you treat them if they didn't need help?