Bearbaggin'

[TrippinBTM]

Something Lone Wolf said in another thread got me to thinking. Did the Native Americans bearbag? Something tells me they didn't. And I remember reading that the black bears had their reputation for ferociousness among the settlers because they were ferocious. The hunting with dogs and (especially) guns taught them to fear man and be shy. But it wasn't alway so.

Yet somehow I can't see Squanto throwing a bear line. Obviously they wouldn't in the village, but what about hunting and war parties, or traders?

I'm not meaning to be offensive. I'm seriously wondering. Are we moderns just being paranoid? Or is it a lack of knowledge and understanding of the bear's habits that the Indians had but we don't?

[waywardfool]

Ummmm, because maybe when a bear came into their hunting camp, it was welcome? Their existing food bag became "bait" and the bear became "dinner".

[take-a-knee]

Ummmm, because maybe when a bear came into their hunting camp, it was welcome? Their existing food bag became "bait" and the bear became "dinner".

Exactly, the need to hang a bear bag is due to the disneyfication of "rabbit people" who are/were the descendants of the great men who founded this nation. There is a direct correlation between areas along the AT that have problem bears and "gun-free zones".

[TrippinBTM]

You think they killed every bear they saw?

[hootyhoo]

Read the chronicals of Lewis and Clark - Brown Bears (griz to us) were a definite problem. It has been a while, but I remember one excert where they wiated until the last second to fire the rifle because shooting the charging bears at a distance just pissed them off. The population of bears must have been many times what we have today - thank god for animal genicide(not). I am sure the native americans had methods to secure/protect their food supply - but I wonder what it was. The US Gov initiated a program where young indians were taken from their families and taught the white ways in Gov schools - thereby separating them from traditional ways - basically an attempt at full eradication of the culture. Makes ya glad to pay those taxes don't it? One example is the Flandreau Boarding School. Interesting reading if you google. It was called sterilization. Oops, I blue blazed off topic sorry.

[Tipi Walter]

Read the chronicals of Lewis and Clark - Brown Bears (griz to us) were a definite problem. It has been a while, but I remember one excert where they wiated until the last second to fire the rifle because shooting the charging bears at a distance just pissed them off. The population of bears must have been many times what we have today - thank god for animal genicide(not). I am sure the native americans had methods to secure/protect their food supply - but I wonder what it was. The US Gov initiated a program where young indians were taken from their families and taught the white ways in Gov schools - thereby separating them from traditional ways - basically an attempt at full eradication of the culture. Makes ya glad to pay those taxes don't it? One example is the Flandreau Boarding School. Interesting reading if you google. It was called sterilization. Oops, I blue blazed off topic sorry.

For more information on the Americanization of the Indian, check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_boarding_school

Some members of some tribes(Lakota)refused to hunt or kill bears as they had medicine associated with them or they reminded them of humans when skinned(Lame Deer reference?). Also, it should be remembered that Indians traveled for the most part heavily armed, and it wasn't unheard of for a particular Indian to fight a bear to the death with a knife. Sort of makes the local bear hunters around here who use dogs and radio collars look like wannabes.

[take-a-knee]

You think they killed every bear they saw?

Uhh, yeah, pretty much every one they had the means to kill. Why do you think they disappeared from most areas? You really should read up on the conservation efforts of Theodore Roosevelt and the Boone & Crockett Club, the history of which is obviously not widely known.

[Pootz]

Bears have learned that campers/hikers=food. Until people stop feeding them they will continue to be a nuisance. On the AT they associate shelters areas with food. That being said the bear problem on the AT is very small, mostly concentrated in SNP and GSMNP. Both places have food hangers so we might as well use them. I only saw 6 bears on my thru hike all in SNP, wish I had seem more.

[Nearly Normal]

Today we are a trashy bunch. Talking about trash collecting fees with my 85 year old Grandfather recently he made the comment that when was a boy growing up in rural Alabama he doesn't remember them having trash. Things were used up for the most part.
I guess in those days a bear might get in your smoke house or corn crib, but only once.

[Blissful]

Black bears are ferocious here in the east? Not the ones I've seen in SNP. :)

Now grizzlies /brown bears out west, sure.

[Many Walks]

Getting back to the original question, I do believe the ancient Native Americans did put their food out of reach of local critters. We have been doing some research on the ancient natives and this last weekend we hiked with some Maidu Tribe Council members into an ancient camp site. They explained how they kept their grains and nuts in baskets on poles to deter small animals. I didn't ask specifically (but will next time) about black and grizzly bears, but I'd have to believe they hung their meat in order to keep it. I also believe when a bear came near camp the natives from family units and local clans would gang together in a hunting party to kill it before it got them. No doubt the grizzlies would win out over bows, arrows and spears, but would eventually succumb to the wounds. In grizzly areas especially it would be wise to hang their food with the thought if they didn't get killed by the bear they would have something to eat later. It was a much different time, but like today, if they didn't read their environment correctly and got careless they would suffer for it. Some did then, some do now. I believe it's wise to take precaution in areas of suspected bear activity.

[buff_jeff]

I don't throw lines. My dad's never thrown one. We've never had a problem. I love the people who get all pissed off at you when you don't throw one. They're all about that HYOH BS until you disagree with them.

[Lone Wolf]

sleeping with your food is the only way to go

[Many Walks]

On the AT we also slept with our food most of the time. We're in northern CA now and saw an interesting report on the news that the Tahoe area has a reported daily average of 150 house breakins by bears.We're hiking the Tahoe Rim Trail in July, so in that environment I think precautions are valid. Again, it's reading the environment we're in. We didn't worry much about the AT bears, but the western bears have clearly lost their fear of humans in some areas. If they break into houses, they won't hesitate to go into a tent.

[Pootz]

I agree with Lone Wolf, he should sleep with his food, LOL Everyone knows Bears are afraid of Wolfs

[Nightwalker]

I bag in SNP and when there's a local bear that's *lost his fear. That's about it.

*(You read about it in shelter registers.)

[brooklynkayak]

sleeping with your food is the only way to go

It might sound funny, but I've seen it many times.
It's always the same scenario, they wake up with a hole chewed through there tent and pack, the inside of the pack a mess and a good amount of food gone or ruined.
This while they soundly slept.

Raccoons around here(NYC outskirts, AT area) are very aggressive and will walk right up to you and try to steal food while you are preparing or eating it. I've even heard of them crawling under the fly of the tent with people in it.

Occasionally a very hungry bear will break into cabins or charge through a busy campground if someone is BBQing ribs. I have no doubt that they'd consider ripping a hole in a tent to get at a food bag.

[Lone Wolf]

It might sound funny, but I've seen it many times.
It's always the same scenario, they wake up with a hole chewed through there tent and pack, the inside of the pack a mess and a good amount of food gone or ruined.
This while they soundly slept.



it may sound funny but i've never had any animal chew thru my tent or pack in 23 years on the trail
this while i slept soundly

[brooklynkayak]

it may sound funny but i've never had any animal chew thru my tent or pack in 23 years on the trail
this while i slept soundly

Really, I thought you were joking?

I guess it must be the circumstances where I camp?

[Big Dawg]

I sleep w/ my food too. I'm sure my snorrrrrrrring:eek: helps deter any animals lurking about. Never had a problem.

[Manwich]

if you smell bad enough no animal will come near your tent

[Camping Dave]

It might sound funny, but I've seen it many times.
It's always the same scenario, they wake up with a hole chewed through there tent and pack, the inside of the pack a mess and a good amount of food gone or ruined.
This while they soundly slept.


One of the scoutmasters in my son's troop was stepped on by a bear while he slept. The bear came into the campsite, found a pack holding food, dragged it about 50 yards away, unzipped it, and ate the next morning's breakfast.

[SGT Rock]

Never had an animal chew through my food bag either while hanging at the end of my hammock. I did once have a mouse eat part of my stove windscreen while it was set up next to me under the tarp though.

[randyg45]

it may sound funny but i've never had any animal chew thru my tent or pack in 23 years on the trail
this while i slept soundly
Do you think there's an advantage, other than the minimal convenience, in not hanging your bag?

[SGT Rock]

Probably makes it easier to get a snack in the middle of the night.

[Lone Wolf]

Do you think there's an advantage, other than the minimal convenience, in not hanging your bag?


Probably makes it easier to get a snack in the middle of the night.

what rock says

[brooklynkayak]

The times that I've seen rodents go after food in tents have been at campsites that are fairly busy.
One time in a shelter, where people pitched tents inside the shelter to escape the horizontal rain.

Another time was on an island on the St. Lawrence where the critters were exceptionally aggressive. I don't know if it were mink, squirrels, or any of the other small animals that are very hungry and willing to take the chance.

In many parts of Canada, critters, including bears, will go after food in tents. I know people have lots of stories about food in tents in BC and northern Canada.

Polar, Brown and even rarely Black bears, will rip tents open with people inside if they smell food.
National parks can be a problem in the US.

Wilderness, away from busy campsites, shouldn't be a problem in most cases, but I still keep my food double or triple bagged and keep it in an Ursack a short distance from camp.

Moth balls in the outside bag (Ursack?) will keep curious critters from wanting to go to the trouble. This is a common method used by people in the most bear infested parts of BC where Brown bears are an issue.

Birds can be a problem in some locations and will sometimes attempt to rip open hanging bear bags.

I figure that most mammals have a better sense of smell than humans and can smell food, even bagged, inside a tent so I want to keep them away.

Raccoons can be very aggressive if they are very hungry and I have seen them crawl under a tent fly and try to get into the tent, even though they know people are inside.
I had one once walk up and try to grab food while I was eating near the NY part of the AT. It took a few swats from a stick to keep her/him away.

[The Weasel]

"Wilderness" where animals don't know what "human food" smells like is nearly non-existent in the Lower 48. Even in bushwhacking areas, I've had rodents (mice, squirrels), 'coons, possums, fox (Isle Royale, especialy), even snakes (which have powerful olfactory senses) come to where I had my food. Birds are a serious problem, since they often range even further, inclduing some raptors (crows) and water birds (esp gulls).

Funniest experience I ever had about "safe" places was on a Scout backpacking trip where the Scouts figured food would be safe in tent bags hung in an enclosed/screened privy on North Manito Island (part of Sleeping Bear National Seashore), since the food "can't be smelled" since it was all in ziplocs. Well, we warned the kids. "Yeah, the food will be safe but it's not a really smart idea." Some lessons have to be learned, not taught: At 2 AM, we hear a kid screaming from the privy. We get lights and shine them on the door. "Make them go away," he's yelling. He's referring to the 5 or 6 truly big honkin' racoons who are pounding against the door.

TW

[sheepdog]

Was sleeping on S. Manitou Island using my food bag as a pillow. I could hear sniffing outside the tent and then could see something pressing its nose against the tent. I gave it a swat through the tent and it took off. Most likely a coon or skiunk. It didn't come back. No bears on the Manitou islands.

Black bears were a good source of fat. That was very hard to get in pioneer days. Most indians and settlers were glad to take any bear they could and render the fat down for later use.