Alcohol Fuel choices

[fiddlehead]

Hello folks. I have used alcohol stoves in the states and heard that denatured alcohol was best with the dri-gas you put in your car in winter 2nd best. etc.
But, i am in Thailand and my buddy just sent me a new stove he created. I'd like to use it so went to the biggest Home improvement store around (called Home Pro but is like a HOme Depot or Lowes and has just about everything you can find in Thailand relating to construction.
So, in the paint department, the only thing i found in English with the word alcohol on it was Methyl Alcohol. That's about all it says and i have to buy a half gallon is the smallest size they sell.
I came home and googled it and see it is the same as Methanol which is toxic, corrosive to aluminum but otherwise should work. (the way I read it)

Readers who are familiar with different sources of fuel, can you help me determine if this stuff is ok to use and try, or do you think i might have other options (rubbing alcohol is probably available but gas line anti-freeze is out, it just doen't get below about 60 here)

Thanks in advance. I'd hate to have to pay for and use the Thai rice whiskey (as easy as it is to find)

[Roland]

Fiddlehead,

You're right, methyl alcohol is toxic. You are wise to use it with care.

Is it safe to use in your alcohol stove? Well, you've been using it all along, and may not have known.

Heet, in the yellow bottle, is largely methyl alcohol. (The red bottle is an isopropyl alcohol based product)

Denatured alcohol is alcohol which was made unsafe for human consumption. This is done to exempt the product from the tax typically placed on spirits. There are a number of ways to denature ethyl alcohol, but the most common is to add methyl alcohol.

Is it safe to use methyl alcohol? How long have you been using Heet and denatured? Some will disagree, but I think if you use it with care, don't contaminate your cookware or food with it, and don't spill it on yourself you won't notice any more adverse effects than your previous experiences with Heet and denatured alcohol.

[fiddlehead]

Thanks Roland.
It's looking like i don't have much of a choice.

I might try the powerful whiskey though. That is readily available everywhere.
But, i doubt it will burn as hot as the methyl alcohol in the store.

What about it (methyl alc.) eroding aluminum (wickapedia says this)

[Roland]

~
What about it (methyl alc.) eroding aluminum (wickapedia says this)

Fiddlehead, I've noticed some slight oxidation on my alcohol stoves. But even after several years of intermittent use, I've never seen one corrode through. Nor have I heard of anyone having that problem.

[hootyhoo]

What is price comparison between methyl and high proof spirits? (in your local)

[Jayboflavin04]

Rice alcohol (whiskey)...If you can find a local friend that has a friend or relative that brews (rice alcohol moonshine). That would be a wise choice!
That is if you can find it. Check the local liquor store for the highest alcohol content(I dont know the liquor laws). This option might be costly.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Just FWIW, methyl alcohol formation occurs naturally in fruit and grain based upon the amount of pectin present. You'll likely ingest much more methyl alcohol drinking apple juice, wine, whiskey or beer than you will handling it as stove fuel on a hike. Concentrations of methyl alcohol in these beverages can often approach 0.3%, and your body can handle/metabolize such concentrations with no problem. It leaves the body mainly either through respiratory evaporation or by conversion to formaldehyde and then to formic acid(which is what makes you go blind). The antidote, believe it or not, is to get a lot of ethyl alcohol(the stuff that gets you drunk) into your system immediately, to slow the conversion of the methylated alcohol into formaldehyde. This is best done by IV, but in a pinch getting good and drunk might be a last ditch plan.

Don't drink your stove fuel! Keep it in an unmistakably marked bottle!

Yellow HEET is 99% methyl alcohol which is why it's pretty predictable as to content. But another problem to watch out for is other additives that are often added to the denaturing mix especially for stuff sold in paint departments of hardware/big box stores. Avoid any spirit mixtures with MEK or other chemical additives. Many can release some really nasty fumes when burned.

[fiddlehead]

So, it's looking like the Methyl Alcohol in the Home depot type store will work fine.
It is around $3.50 a half gallon.
The strong (don't know what proof, i would guess 100 as it gets people very ****-faced fast, costs around $1.50 a litre.
I think i'll buy the half gallon AND a small bottle of the rice whiskey and experiment.
Should be fun. I'll make sure i do it outside.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[jlb2012]

denatured alcohol may also be found labeled shellac thinner

basically though the methyl alcohol will be fine

[ARambler]

So, it's looking like the Methyl Alcohol in the Home depot type store will work fine.
It is around $3.50 a half gallon.
The strong (don't know what proof, i would guess 100 as it gets people very ****-faced fast, costs around $1.50 a litre.
I think i'll buy the half gallon AND a small bottle of the rice whiskey and experiment.
Should be fun. I'll make sure i do it outside.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Yes, methyl alcohol is the way to go. Methyl alcohol is more volitile than denatured so it may burn rich in warm temperatures. If you see big yellow flame, you might try blocking off some of the holes. If the stove is tuned for methyl alcohol, you will have to use slightly more, because it has less fuel value.

Buy a

[ARambler]

Buy a whiskey that you want to drink. Yes, 100 proof is pretty strong, but still has 50% water. All of this water has to be boiled in the flame, so the fuel is heavier and less efficient than dry methyl or denatured alcohol.

40 years ago, denatured alcohol was made with benzene, which is really toxic. It is possible that they still sell this in the third world. If you don't get it on your hands and use it outside, there is probably little risk. Hopefully, you can make the methyl alcohol work.
Rambler

[Nightwalker]

You might can get Meths (Methylated spirits. Nearly the same as denatured alcohol.) at the pharmacy. It's available in Europe and Australia. Maybe you can get it in Asia as well.

Hello folks. I have used alcohol stoves in the states and heard that denatured alcohol was best with the dri-gas you put in your car in winter 2nd best. etc.
But, i am in Thailand and my buddy just sent me a new stove he created. I'd like to use it so went to the biggest Home improvement store around (called Home Pro but is like a HOme Depot or Lowes and has just about everything you can find in Thailand relating to construction.
So, in the paint department, the only thing i found in English with the word alcohol on it was Methyl Alcohol. That's about all it says and i have to buy a half gallon is the smallest size they sell.
I came home and googled it and see it is the same as Methanol which is toxic, corrosive to aluminum but otherwise should work. (the way I read it)

Readers who are familiar with different sources of fuel, can you help me determine if this stuff is ok to use and try, or do you think i might have other options (rubbing alcohol is probably available but gas line anti-freeze is out, it just doen't get below about 60 here)

Thanks in advance. I'd hate to have to pay for and use the Thai rice whiskey (as easy as it is to find)

[Nightwalker]

Heet, in the yellow bottle, is largely methyl alcohol. (The red bottle is an isopropyl alcohol based product)
99%+, if I remember my research correctly.

[Jayboflavin04]

Well there fiddle did you ever come up with a solution to your fuel dilema....Or does that there rice whiskey cook up some mean beans and weiners!

[fiddlehead]

Ok,went out and bought some Methyl Alcohol today. Filled the stove about halfway with it. Went out and bought the proper size aluminium pot. I put about a half litre of water in it and fired her up. Took about 4 minutes to first bubble and 6 or 7 minutes for rolling boil. Pretty good i'd say.

I must say that i think the hi-tech stove that my friend turned me on to is a little overkill.

I remember Pieps used an alcohol stove a lot on our triplecrown hike and he would just use 3 rocks for his pot holder and had a little piece of aluminum that would hide about half the cookpot from the wind.
Seemed to work fine. Probably not quite as efficient as the hi-tech method.
I think i will carry a little more fuel and perhaps use his method. (or pound 3 tent stakes into the ground if there are no rocks around (for the pot holder)

So, i am getting ready for an extended overnight hike on the trail i've been designing (trailblazing) here in Phuket. It easily could go 2 nights as it's going to be about 30 miles and a lot of it is very steep with no trail.

I want to go one more day and add another 2 or 3 miles so i will end at a convenient pickup point to get a ride back (Motorcycle taxi probably)
I'll let you all know how everything goes after that but that may be a week or two away.

High season here now and lots to do.

Thanks everybody for the info. I had to have a Thai person go along with me to buy a litre of the fuel (everything written in Thai) and he kept telling me i couldn't drink this stuff.