View Full Version : Definition of "Directly on the Trail!"
Jack Tarlin
02-18-2009, 15:01
OK, this is kind of silly, but I want to hear opinions on this:
A guy I know moved into a new apartment and he was very excited to tell me that his now home is "Directly on the Trail!"
Well, it is. Sorta.
See, the Trail (i.e. where the blazes are painted) is technically on the OTHER side of the street from his apartment.
But I didn't tell him this.
So, here's the question: When the Trail goes thru a town (like Hot Springs or Damascus or Dalton or Hanover or wherever), do BOTH sides of a street count as the A.T. or just one? And what about the street itself, where the cars are, is THAT considered part of the Trail?
The other reason I'm curious is that I have friends who run businesses on Main St. and have asked me whether or not they can legitimately say there place is right on the Trail regardless of which side of the street they're on.
So what do you guys think?
Is the whole street considered the A.T. or just the side that's blazed?
The whole street. He lives directly on the trail.
sheepdog
02-18-2009, 15:05
Some of the springs and shelters "on the trail" are a lot farther away than across the street.
Rockhound
02-18-2009, 15:12
I'd have to say Paddlers' Pub is directly on the trail. Both sides of the street count.
Rockhound
02-18-2009, 15:15
I'd use spitting distance for "directly on the trail", throwing distance for "just off the trail" and shouting distance for "very close to the trail"
Lone Wolf
02-18-2009, 15:16
the side that's blazed. that's the trail. MRO is on the trail. their hostel is not
The Solemates
02-18-2009, 15:17
who cares :)
I'd use spitting distance for "directly on the trail", throwing distance for "just off the trail" and shouting distance for "very close to the trail"
This is now how I will refer to things that are close to any trail from now on. lol
Jack Tarlin
02-18-2009, 15:18
Who cares?
Probably lots of folks. Personally, I think it'd be pretty cool to say that you lived or had your business right on the A.T.
sheepdog
02-18-2009, 15:21
I'd use spitting distance for "directly on the trail", throwing distance for "just off the trail" and shouting distance for "very close to the trail"
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/natlib/afc2001001/afc-legacies/MI/200003151/i0001.jpg
Ten-time winner Cheery Pit Spit champ "Pellet Gun" Krause, July 1997. Photo courtesy Dowagiac Daily NewsInternational Cherry Pit Spitting Championship
Each July since 1974, hundreds of people from across the country and around the world gather for the International Cherry Pit Spitting Championship. The contest marks the beginning of the tart cherry harvest for southwest Michigan. Up until 1993, Rick Krause of Arizona held the world record with a spit of 72' 7 1/2". The current Guiness world record is 95' 9 1/2". In 1998, Brian Kraus, son of Rick Krause, spat 72' 11" to break his father's North American record set in 1988. The qualification round is open to anyone of any age.
Spittin distance 95 feet 9 and one half inches.
Slo-go'en
02-18-2009, 15:34
As LW says, technically, the side of the street which is blazed is the offical route. So in theory, if you walk on the other side of the street, you didn't hike that part of the trail. In practice, I'd say if you can see it from the trail, for all practical purposes its on the trail.
Straight line, I live about 1.5 miles from the AT. However, it would take some serious bushwacking to get there from here. So, about all I can say is I live *near* the trail.
who cares :)
I think Solemates point is... to 99.9+% of society, it doesn't matter what side of the street is blazed. If the trail runs down the street in front of your house, you live directly on the trail. Here in the AT community - it does matter to some.
So the answer to his question is... very few people.
Every street has a legal discription. If it falls anywhere adjacent to the legal discription it is on the trail.
Clyde
neighbor dave
02-18-2009, 15:41
oh chr#@st!!
press "play" :rolleyes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/worldonthemove/reports/the-cuckoo-chorus/
neighbor dave
02-18-2009, 15:42
p.s.
what's the definition of "indefinately"?
p.m. me for the answer
"On the AT" can have various meanings open to numerous interpretations and frame of reference. People will disagree ad infinitum, ad nauseum. Kind of like a "country mile."
Is Damascus, or Hot Springs "on the AT?" Yes.
Is Mt. Katahdin? Mt. Washington? Yes.
Is that bag of trash 40 feet down a steep slope "on the Trail?" No.
IMO, I'd have to say that unless the street is a divided highway---which changes the frame of reference---your friend can validly claim that the enterprise is "on the AT."
been thru most of those towns and really,its a funny thread because its a fine line,you cross the road and wham!your not a purist think about it:-?ky
Rain Man
02-18-2009, 15:52
Like your friend, I'd sure say my apartment was directly on the trail. Otherwise, I might be limited to saying the Walasi-Yi Inn is the only building "directly" on the trail, since the trail passes through it.
The whole thing is context. I might or might not say that Overmountain Shelter is "directly on the trail." Depends on who I'm telling, when, and why. Not sure I'd ever say that Whitley Gap Shelter in Georgia is "directly on the trail." Over a mile is a fer piece, no matter.
:D
Rain:sunMan
.
jersey joe
02-18-2009, 15:52
Jack,
I'd say in the case where the trail goes down one side of the street, buildings on either side of the street could claim they are "on the trail".
neighbor dave
02-18-2009, 15:54
Jack,
I'd say in the case where the trail goes down one side of the street, buildings on either side of the street could claim they are "on the trail".
i'd have to agree, after all they're all "stationary" buildings!!!:jump
boarstone
02-18-2009, 16:50
Seeing as how the AT blaze runs down a street(regardless which side or for how long) does this mean the AT helps maintain the streets/roads where this occurs? tar, filling pot holes, directing traffic while said repairs are being done,( all on donated time of course), painting the white line, triming trees, general street maintenance, signage posts, sweeping, cleaning, garbage p/u.....you get the idea...:rolleyes:
garbage p/u.....
Heard in many a trail town as a thru-hiker passes by.
boarstone
02-18-2009, 16:54
Heard in many a trail town as a thru-hiker passes by.
LOL ...that' s a good way of putting it...:D
the side that's blazed. that's the trail. MRO is on the trail. their hostel is not
I have to agree with Wolf on this one. If I could spit further I would consider the other side of the street.
OK for you purists, a couple more scenarios:
-New line of townhouses in Boiling Springs that are fanny-first to the side of PA 174 with blazed poles. On the trail, or no?
-A hunting camp that's up a 300' driveway from the side of the road with the blazes. Can just barely see anyone walking by from the porch. On trail, or no?
isn't there a 100' corridor on each side of the trail
hopefulhiker
02-18-2009, 17:58
I think if it is for advertising purposes then Go for it! If it were my building I would say I lived on the trail.. Technically, there is usually a public right of way of a few feet on either side of the road.. Therefore the trail could be considered part of the road.. If the trail is part of the road then the road itself could be considered the trail.. If the road is the trail then either side of the road could be considered the trail.... but when they painted the blazes wasn't arbitrary which side of the road they were on? And for that matter Why did the chicken cross the road?
Should be the whole street. Since one (I don't want to offend anyone by saying "you" ;)) should, by the laws of most states and cities, walk facing traffic (unless there's a sidewalk only on one side of the street), it should be both sides. I've walked around thousands of trees in the woods where there's a white blaze on it and a path around each side. "Goodness me", I wonder, "Now which side is the official trail on". Nah, I don't worry. Otherwise, the trail in town should be either the whole street or the side that the sidewalk is on. Works for both NOBOs and SOBOs.
TOW's front porch is directly on the trail.
I would never question a business owner stating "on the trail" if across the pavement from the blaze. I would question those that would question such a thing. They need to get a life. And life is too short.
Lone Wolf
02-18-2009, 18:55
the business owner should state that they're across the street from the trail
Jack Tarlin
02-18-2009, 19:01
Wow, whatta can of worms!!
Thanx to all who commented; I tend to agree with Joe.....if my friend wants to say that he lives right on the Trail, I have no intention of telling him otherwise.
The bigger question is... if a hiker walks down the west side of Main Street in Hot Springs & Damascus, does the purist think that hiker has still walked the ENTIRE trail? :-?
Lone Wolf
02-18-2009, 19:04
Wow, whatta can of worms!!
Thanx to all who commented; I tend to agree with Joe.....if my friend wants to say that he lives right on the Trail, I have no intention of telling him otherwise.
kinda like folks who say they've hiked the AT yet blue-blaze, aquablaze, etc. in their minds it's good. the patch is good
Lone Wolf
02-18-2009, 19:05
The bigger question is... if a hiker walks down the west side of Main Street in Hot Springs & Damascus, does the purist think that hiker has still walked the ENTIRE trail? :-?
the purist thinks not. i agree
Rain Man
02-18-2009, 19:14
TOW's front porch is directly on the trail.
No it ain't!!! It's AT LEAST 8' away!!!:D
:D
Rain:sunMan
.
Jack Tarlin
02-18-2009, 19:15
Interesting stuff here.
See, I was thinking.....in the woods and mountains, the "trail" is a narrow path just a few feet across, and while the blazes are generally all on one side, does this mean that trees on the "other" side aren't considered to be on the Trail?
No, of course they are.
So in town, if the "trail" is a street, like Laurel Ave in Damascus, or Depot St. in Dalton, or Main St. in Hanover, then shouldn't both sides be considered the Trail? Even if the blazes are just one one side?
Seems fair to me.
Curious......let the record show that this evening MOWGLI and I agree on something. :D
Mark this, it might be awhile till it happens again.
Sailor (The other one)
02-18-2009, 19:16
This just relates to the businesses. As a hiker, I'd want to know that a business is so close to the trail I could spit from the trail and hit it, but I doubt most businesses are going to advertise with the saying "Right across the street from the AT." So for my selfish purposes, I'd be fine with them claiming to be right on the trail.
What's next? Cats and dogs set aside their differences? :D
Rockhound
02-18-2009, 19:23
This just relates to the businesses. As a hiker, I'd want to know that a business is so close to the trail I could spit from the trail and hit it, but I doubt most businesses are going to advertise with the saying "Right across the street from the AT." So for my selfish purposes, I'd be fine with them claiming to be right on the trail.
sounds like a vote for my definition. I say the spittin' throwin' shoutin' rule should, as of this day forward, be the universally accepted policy of what constitutes "on the trail", "just off the trail" and "close to the trail".
It all a matter of context.
Making love "directly on the trail" requires a more proximate location than, say, finding a great pond "directly on the trail".
Other examples abound.
In the one you cite, it hardly matters. If you can help your friend find a bit more joy with one answer over another, go with that one.
Jack Tarlin
02-18-2009, 19:44
Not interested in helping folks find joy, Rick.
Most people do that on my own.
I'm merely curious.
Any Trail maintainers out there, or the guys who actually put out the paint?
No kidding......is the Trail the whole street or just where the blazes are?
This is getting interesting.
Maybe we have to ask Laurie or Bob Peoples or someone like that, tho I bet they don't wanna have to be the authority on this one! :eek:
I would suggest that the trail is actually a "route" through town, since ATC or NPS probably does not own the corridor in those areas - excepting perhaps parts of Harpers Ferry. The trail is simply allowed to come through town.
Jack Tarlin
02-18-2009, 20:00
Good point, MOWGLI, and I bet you're right.
Then why aren't both sides of the street blazed in Trail towns?
Seems to me it'd be easy to do, and it's something that residents and businesspeople alike would welcome.
If the road were really part of the Trail, would not morotized vehicles be prohibitted?
If the sidewalk and abutting areas were really part of the Trail, would not it be subject to federal regulation?
If the road were really part of the Trail, would not morotized vehicles be prohibitted?
If the sidewalk and abutting areas were really part of the Trail, would not it be subject to federal regulation?
I'd bet that in downtown Hot Springs, Damascus, Pearisburg, Duncannon, Port Clinton, and Dalton the trail corridor does not belong to the NPS.
SGT Rock
02-18-2009, 20:07
Less than 0.1 miles to me constitutes "directly on the trail"
Lone Wolf
02-18-2009, 20:07
I would suggest that the trail is actually a "route" through town, since ATC or NPS probably does not own the corridor in those areas - excepting perhaps parts of Harpers Ferry. The trail is simply allowed to come through town.
truth be known, the AT route thru damascus is actually the creeper trail from the town park to where it leaves the CT up the stairs
Blue Jay
02-18-2009, 20:20
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/natlib/afc2001001/afc-legacies/MI/200003151/i0001.jpg
Ten-time winner Cheery Pit Spit champ "Pellet Gun" Krause, July 1997. Photo courtesy Dowagiac Daily NewsInternational Cherry Pit Spitting Championship
Spittin distance 95 feet 9 and one half inches.
I also vote for this definition.
Blue Jay
02-18-2009, 20:25
Anyone notice that Pellet Gun Krause looks exactly like Lone Wolf.
Jack Tarlin
02-18-2009, 20:33
Wolf's greyer and somewhat larger. Plus he has a better beard. Guy in the photo actually looks more like Kevin Youkilis of the Red Sox who happily bats and fields better than he spits.
truth be known, the AT route thru damascus is actually the creeper trail from the town park to where it leaves the CT up the stairs
Yep, anyone who follows the white blazes thru damascus is really a BLUE blazer!!!!!:eek:
Lone Wolf
02-18-2009, 20:41
correct
be like crossing the bridge in harpers ferry,why not swim it:bananaky
I forget where but had someone tell me a store was "right across the road". He didn't tell me the road was about a mile from the trail. I suspect one could state "the trail is right across the street" without also mentioning their particular location was just that plus the 0.7 miles through the woods on the other side. If I was not a local and read-heard a "new" business (for instance) was "across the street" from the trail I might not likely know if that meant 20 feet or 2000+....yet.
Jack Tarlin
02-18-2009, 20:48
Good point. A few years ago someone put in a trail register that I lived "just across" the street from a Trail crossing in Hanover, instead of .3 past it.
Poor bastard who actually lived there got a lot of smelly people knocking on his door that summer, and he was REALLY happy to see the end of hiking season. :D
A few hundred yards can make a big difference.
the side that's blazed. that's the trail. MRO is on the trail. their hostel is not
Maybe if the other side of the street was blue blazed. Without knowing for sure, I'd say the blazes were on the same side as the telephone poles, or with the traffic going north. On the trail proper they can be on either side.
Maybe someone should ask the ATC? If you don't cross the street directly at Paddlers Pub, or retrace your steps to where you crossed, you're not a 2000-miler. :p
Damn, we are really going to split hairs here. How wide is the "official" route? If you pass the blaze and it was on the sidewalk while you stepped onto the road to avoid some folks in the way did you leave the trail? Is Hot Springs on the trail or is a small portion of Hot Springs on the trail? Are the blazes always correct? Or can they be wrong? What if a volunteer mistakenly places a blaze on the wrong tree? The implications to a legitimate thru hike are at stake. We really need to arrive at a concrete resolution to this.:rolleyes: ;) :sun :)
No it ain't!!! It's AT LEAST 8' away!!!:D
:D
Rain:sunMan
.
The grass is worn away so it's just wide. How's that? :D
Good point, MOWGLI, and I bet you're right.
Then why aren't both sides of the street blazed in Trail towns?
Seems to me it'd be easy to do, and it's something that residents and businesspeople alike would welcome.
Probably because the maintainers don't want to take the time.
BobTheBuilder
02-18-2009, 23:11
I would say it is Walking Distance from the AT, but then again, my house is walking distance from the AT.
Mountain Maiden
02-19-2009, 00:30
As A Trail town, I think Hot Springs has it figured out--evidenced by its website tagline
Hot Springs --"Where the Trail Meets the Town"
Also--"Hot Springs has the distinction of being the only town with hot mineral spring water in the Southeastern United States. And, North Carolina's only town that sits astride the Appalachian Trail."
Usually (but not always) if you're walking north on the AT in the woods, the trees on the right get blazed. (Same thing applies if you're SOBO.)
If you walk on the left side of the path, where it's wide enough to discern a left and right side, you're hiking the AT. I think you can say the same theory applies on a street.
This is a fascinating, joyous waste of time. I'm glad Jack started the thread.
Funkmeister
02-19-2009, 01:39
I don't know which is worse: That this thread is currently four pages long, or that I actually read it.
Nearly Normal
02-19-2009, 01:46
Ha Ha Ha what a crock
I'd be humored if a business advertised as being "just off the trail" and the directions in the book guide the hiker to look across the street.
I'm starting to think everyone needs some fresh air.
I'm starting to think everyone needs some fresh air.
Kirby is wise beyond his years.
Ox97GaMe
02-19-2009, 17:26
How technical does one REALLY want to be. The AT is a footpath. For the majority of its length, it is not more than 18-24 inches wide. So... If the trail goes down a sidewalk that is 4 ft wide, is it in the middle of the sidewalk, the right edge, or the left edge? For the few places that are still a road walk, and the road is 40 ft wide, which 18-24 inches of it ARE the actual trail?
If the sidewalk or road is put under construction, do you need to get permission from the ATC first? Is the sidewalk in Damascus maintained by the local hiking club, or by the town?
I say get the trail off roads and sidewalks completely and we wont have to talk about such things ever again. <lol>
For the few places that are still a road walk, and the road is 40 ft wide, which 18-24 inches of it ARE the actual trail?
Furthermore, without a sidewalk if one obediently walks facing traffic, which two sets of 18-24" patches? :D
Frick Frack
02-20-2009, 09:13
I don't know which is worse: That this thread is currently four pages long, or that I actually read it.
Ditto....me too...as well as the WalMart thread.....
I'm starting to think everyone needs some fresh air.
Kirby is wise beyond his years.
yeah, but it's hard for some people to get that when their head is stuck that far up. this purist stuff really baffles the crap outta me. who gives a flying rat's ass if you touched every blaze and walked on the "right side" of the street? you're out for a friggin walk for pete's sake. purists are control freaks that need to get a life and quit telling everybody else how to go about leading theirs.
max patch
02-20-2009, 10:27
yeah, but it's hard for some people to get that when their head is stuck that far up. this purist stuff really baffles the crap outta me. who gives a flying rat's ass if you touched every blaze and walked on the "right side" of the street? you're out for a friggin walk for pete's sake. purists are control freaks that need to get a life and quit telling everybody else how to go about leading theirs.
Thats a bull**** comment.
People who understand what constitutes a 2,000 miler don't give a crap about anyones hike but their own.
Thats a bull**** comment.
People who understand what constitutes a 2,000 miler don't give a crap about anyones hike but their own.
that's a bull**** comment. it doesn't even make any sense. i saw way too many comments this summer about how kirby didn't "hike the whole at" because he blue blazed a little. damn purists.
max patch
02-20-2009, 10:37
that's a bull**** comment. it doesn't even make any sense. i saw way too many comments this summer about how kirby didn't "hike the whole at" because he blue blazed a little. damn purists.
I'm going to talk about anyones hike, but apparently you don't understand the meaning of 2,000 miler either. Do some research and then come back when you understand the meaning of "whole".
I'm going to talk about anyones hike, but apparently you don't understand the meaning of 2,000 miler either. Do some research and then come back when you understand the meaning of "whole".
i get it and i understand that it consumes you. i just don't give a ****.
max patch
02-20-2009, 11:05
i get it and i understand that it consumes you. i just don't give a ****.
Thats another pile of steaming crap.
You are the one that found it necessary to start this topic.
So you must care a lot.
And I'm out. Can't educate someone who doesn't want to learn.
Rockhound
02-20-2009, 11:19
yeah, but it's hard for some people to get that when their head is stuck that far up. this purist stuff really baffles the crap outta me. who gives a flying rat's ass if you touched every blaze and walked on the "right side" of the street? you're out for a friggin walk for pete's sake. purists are control freaks that need to get a life and quit telling everybody else how to go about leading theirs.
Just because someone has OCD does not mean they are a control freak.
Just because someone has OCD does not mean they are a control freak.
ya big freak :banana
sheepdog
02-20-2009, 11:29
spray my shoes
bigmac_in
02-20-2009, 11:42
FINALLY, some posts that make sense on this thread.
Blue Jay
02-20-2009, 12:13
FINALLY, some posts that make sense on this thread.
What, they all make sense, IF you allow for silly. Bad sense (and/or taste) is still sense. Often it's all we have left these days.
Nightwalker
02-20-2009, 16:30
who cares :)
I'll second that emotion.
Paddler's Pub is close enough to count.
Also, it's sometimes better to take the creeper through (around) Damascus anyways.
briarpatch
02-20-2009, 17:20
Mountain Crossings is directly on the trail, everything else can claim to be trailside.
max patch
02-20-2009, 17:30
Mountain Crossings is directly on the trail, everything else can claim to be trailside.
Bear Mtn zoo.
Frick Frack
02-20-2009, 17:53
The zoo was closed when we went through so now I've learned i'm not a "purist".....I'm drowning in tissues....
Nearly Normal
02-20-2009, 18:38
ding fries are done
Careful they may be as flaccid as some of the post.:rolleyes:
generoll
02-20-2009, 19:00
As LW says, technically, the side of the street which is blazed is the offical route. So in theory, if you walk on the other side of the street, you didn't hike that part of the trail. In practice, I'd say if you can see it from the trail, for all practical purposes its on the trail.
Straight line, I live about 1.5 miles from the AT. However, it would take some serious bushwacking to get there from here. So, about all I can say is I live *near* the trail.
I think we should focus on the really important issues. Like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
maxNcathy
03-27-2009, 08:45
If the sidewalk is the Trail, who can have a business on the Trail?
Answer:Maybe an illegally parked hot dog vendor.
So, I say both side of the sidewalk should be okay up to 100 feet 4 inches.
sheepdog
03-27-2009, 08:54
If the sidewalk is the Trail, who can have a business on the Trail?
Answer:Maybe an illegally parked hot dog vendor.
So, I say both side of the sidewalk should be okay up to 100 feet 4 inches.
Silly, silly. silly, It's 98 feet 11 and 1/2 inches.;)
Is he living on the trail?.....I guess that depends on what your definition of is is...
leeki pole
03-27-2009, 09:58
I think we need to go video review on this one. Did he actually re-enter the trail at the exact spot where he left it? Given the trail is only 18-24 inches wide, it's very important.
According to my dispatcher who said: "Since you are close" anywhere within 55 miles is "close" :p
IMHO: if it's on the same street within sight of a blaze, its ON the AT. Therefore MRO hostel (to me), is ON the trail. So is the laundry & Dot's. The Place is "Just off the trail"
This thread gave me vertigo...really. I'm spinning around and around trying to decide which side of the street to walk down. Go away, please !!!!!
Lemni Skate
05-04-2009, 09:15
So when the trail uses a forest road here or there, do I have to make sure I'm in the correct rut or will either rut do? My kids and I sometimes walk side by side Wizard of Oz style on these. Does that mean that only one of us is hiking the trail?
warraghiyagey
05-04-2009, 09:30
The Wizard is a needy jerkass. . . .
I think it depends on the object. If a persons house or business is "directly on the trail", a person would still have to get off the trail in order to visit. In order for a person to be sleeping, or ****ting, "directly on the trail", people need to actually step over them, or it, in order to contine along their merry way. In a sense, when we speak of a business or residence being 'directly on the trail', we are only being figurative. Now in the case of a town being 'directly on the trail', I think the trail would actually have to go through it, not just run along the outskirts.
I am not sure there is a limit though, if people want to use the term figuratively.