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maxpatch67
02-18-2009, 16:28
Is anyone big into trail running? I'm thinking about getting into it since I love hiking and I love running. I've run a couple marathons so far and a half and some 5k's and run on my streets regularly. I didn't know if it works to train on the streets and then to run trail races or if you'd need to train on the trails. I can't really train on the trails a lot-well I don't want to drive 20 min. every day to a trail to run, when I can walk out my door and start more easily. Anyone out there trail running and have advice?

flemdawg1
02-18-2009, 16:50
I'm kinda just getting into it myself. I just run and try not to faceplant.

Come on down next month for an HM.
http://www.huntsvilletrackclub.org/HTC_Races/McKayHollow/index.php

Plodderman
02-18-2009, 16:54
I have done alot of trail running over the years. It is hard to find good trails to run on near where I live but I have found a few that are 5 miles or so and a couple of the national parks in ohio have trail marathons. I have run marathons on streets before and have not found it necessary to train on the trails to do long distnace on them.

The type of shoe is different as you need something a little heavier that will not slip on wet surfaces. Good luck.b

flemdawg1
02-18-2009, 17:19
I have done alot of trail running over the years. It is hard to find good trails to run on near where I live but I have found a few that are 5 miles or so and a couple of the national parks in ohio have trail marathons.

The type of shoe is different as you need something a little heavier that will not slip on wet surfaces. Good luck.b

It's hard to find good streets in Wheelersburg to run on too. Had to stay in town a couple of years when my wife's uncle died (she's orig from Portsmouth/Sciotaville). Ran headfirst into a streetsign (blinded by oncoming car) and was nearly ran over multi-times when I left the Day's Inn at o-dark-thirty on training runs. :) But def a different flavor of running, stomping thru slushy snow.

Bidwell
02-18-2009, 17:40
Hell yeah my friend! Trail running is where it's at. A good amount of folks I meet at ultra-marathons (usually 50Ks on single track hiking trails in my case) have a good background in long distance hiking. They both go together like peas and carrots in my opinion.

If you do a lot of trail running, hiking 25 miles becomes cake!

JJJ
02-18-2009, 17:50
Hey, Max.
I got into trailrunning a few years ago and do most of my training on dirt.
Obviously the more technical trail you run the easier it will become. But every run need not be on dirt.
Lots of trail runners fill in with asphalt and treadmills, Stairmasters or what ever to stay in shape, then do something longer on the trails of the weekend.
I suppose you'll be looking to do some ultras since you're already at marathon level. :D
I've been done a couple of fastpacks on the AT. Carry about an 18lb pack.
Walk the ups, run the downs and flat.

I've been nursing some injuries the last few months, but I often get out and run with the Iron Mountain Trail Runners (http://imtr.blogspot.com/) on the weekends.
I'm on the slow side, but we have a blast.

Blissful
02-18-2009, 20:32
I always wanted to do it - got a book on it, etc. but for now I am sticking to running roads and hiking trails. :)

Gladiator
02-18-2009, 21:42
During the week, I do most of my running on the streets, just for the sake of convenience. On the weekends, I like to venture out to one of the nearby trails - its a welcome change from the normal routine. I like it for the solitude and the challenge, as well as the opportunity to get muddy. It's also a good excuse to buy some really cool shoes!

fiddlehead
02-18-2009, 22:37
I used to ultra run a lot.
Started with the Mt. Masochist near the AT (Blue Ridge Parkway)
and ran all kinds of distances until i completed a big goal of mine: Finishing the Leadville 100.

Now, I mainly just hike and powerhike, especially up hills.
I still run half-marathons and this year will hopefully do a full but, the differences are these:

Trail running and Ultra running is done on dirt. Much easier on the body than concrete or blacktop. (also usually shadier too)

Ultra running is more about finishing than how fast you can do it. I noticed in my first ultra run, when someone fell, about 6 people stopped to make sure they were ok. You would not see this in a marathon, everyone is too concerned with looking at their watch.

Once you start trail running more than 15-20 miles at a stretch, your hiking will drastically pick up in mileage also and you will never be the same. (this could be good or bad depending on how you look at hiking)

You will see a lot more wildlife.

You will learn how to do 20 miles with nothing but perhaps a water bottle.

You won't find many people do join you. They will tell you it's too fast, you're not stopping to smell the roses, it's insane. Just ignore them. It's lots of fun.

I'm surprised LW hasn't chimed in yet. He's been ultra running for at least 18 years (or at least he started at least 18 years ago. Don't know if he's still into it)

Best to start out with a 50 K and meet people and see the differences between them and your marathoners. I was shocked at how slow the pace is comparably.

Have fun.

JJJ
02-18-2009, 23:22
....
and ran all kinds of distances until i completed a big goal of mine: Finishing the Leadville 100.
....
:banana
nice one, fiddlehead
I DNFed my first go at Masochist last year.:(

Bidwell
02-19-2009, 00:16
I used to ultra run a lot.
Started with the Mt. Masochist near the AT (Blue Ridge Parkway)
and ran all kinds of distances until i completed a big goal of mine: Finishing the Leadville 100.

Now, I mainly just hike and powerhike, especially up hills.
I still run half-marathons and this year will hopefully do a full but, the differences are these:

Trail running and Ultra running is done on dirt. Much easier on the body than concrete or blacktop. (also usually shadier too)

Ultra running is more about finishing than how fast you can do it. I noticed in my first ultra run, when someone fell, about 6 people stopped to make sure they were ok. You would not see this in a marathon, everyone is too concerned with looking at their watch.

Once you start trail running more than 15-20 miles at a stretch, your hiking will drastically pick up in mileage also and you will never be the same. (this could be good or bad depending on how you look at hiking)

You will see a lot more wildlife.

You will learn how to do 20 miles with nothing but perhaps a water bottle.

You won't find many people do join you. They will tell you it's too fast, you're not stopping to smell the roses, it's insane. Just ignore them. It's lots of fun.

I'm surprised LW hasn't chimed in yet. He's been ultra running for at least 18 years (or at least he started at least 18 years ago. Don't know if he's still into it)

Best to start out with a 50 K and meet people and see the differences between them and your marathoners. I was shocked at how slow the pace is comparably.

Have fun.

What year did you Masochist? Finished in 2006 and have been dying to do it again... beautiful part of the country.

Lone Wolf
02-19-2009, 06:51
i've done the masochist 5 times. most recent was 2006

Lone Wolf
02-19-2009, 06:53
i've done the masochist 5 times. most recent was 2006

correction. 2005. 76th place. 10:06

fiddlehead
02-19-2009, 08:30
For me, the masochist was my first 50 miler and it was '96 i think. (don't remember the time. not as fast as Lone Wolf though. LOL)
Leadville was 01 in 26:39 (and I DNF'd in 02 (it was wicked hot that year)

Now, i am much more used to the heat as it is usually in the 90's here in Thailand.

jcazz
02-19-2009, 09:23
I just started running ultra last year -3 trail and 1 road relay. I run year round -99% of the time on trails. If i run on roads, i run on the side off the pavement and pick hilly routes. Good luck trail running. I am hoping to run the MMTR this year if it doesn't interfere with Vermont, nice time Wolf!

Lone Wolf
02-19-2009, 09:26
I am hoping to run the MMTR this year if it doesn't interfere with Vermont, nice time Wolf!

thanks. not bad considering 13 months before the race i had a mild stroke and weighed 248 lbs. i dropped 70 lbs. and trained like a mofo :)

Lone Wolf
02-19-2009, 09:28
http://www.extremeultrarunning.com/

fehchet
02-19-2009, 11:37
Thanks LW, you always have good links.

maxpatch67
02-19-2009, 11:42
So the pace is a bit slower than marathon times typically? What about shoes? Are trail running shoes necessary or can I use my regular running shoes. I thought maybe unless the trail is super rocky or rooty, the a regular running shoe would be best

Lone Wolf
02-19-2009, 11:51
So the pace is a bit slower than marathon times typically? What about shoes? Are trail running shoes necessary or can I use my regular running shoes. I thought maybe unless the trail is super rocky or rooty, the a regular running shoe would be best

yes, times are a lot slower. sometimes you have to walk some depending on the race. the Masochist has some steeps that only Superman can run. the JFK 50 is 100% runnable. i did that one year in 8:13. i always wear regular running shoes. most ultrarunners do too

max patch
02-19-2009, 12:28
I wear regular running shoes.

I actually own a pair of "trail runners" but the only time I wear them is right after a rain and I know the trail will be muddy. And thats not because they are "better" to run in, but only to keep my regular shoes dry and cleaner.

timhines
02-19-2009, 12:53
Treat yourself to a pair of Innov8 shoes (the best price around is on running warehouse's site, PM me if you want to know how to get a 15% off coupon).

sherrill
02-19-2009, 13:22
I run some loop trails on my neighbor's land (he has 700 acres behind us), as wall as other land he divided and sold. We built the trails from old logging roads. Somewhat hilly, with numerous small stream/creek crossings. About 5 miles one way on the main loop, but you can intersect smaller trails for a change.

I usually wear running shoes but I'll switch to trail runners after a rain.

I enjoy it, it allows a change from the elliptical and the usual path I run (which is his driveway, btw).

The only difference for me is that I can't "zone" while in the woods, I have to constantly look out for rocks, roots, holes, etc, which adds to the thrill.

If you enjoy running, you should do it.

Plodderman
02-19-2009, 16:44
Flemdawg1

I know what you mean about trying to run in Wheelersburg. It is like a game of daoge ball with he cars not given up much of the road and most of the roads just drop off into a ditch. A few years ago I had an SUV run me up and embankment.

Maybe you can come back to Wheelerburg for som adventure running.

Bumshandler
02-19-2009, 17:51
[quote=fiddlehead;783158]I used to ultra run a lot.
Started with the Mt. Masochist near the AT (Blue Ridge Parkway)
and ran all kinds of distances until i completed a big goal of mine: Finishing the Leadville 100.

Awesome job, FH!! Not only 100 miles, but all of it >10,000'. Much of it over 12,000'!!

Ultra running is more about finishing than how fast you can do it. I noticed in my first ultra run, when someone fell, about 6 people stopped to make sure they were ok. You would not see this in a marathon, everyone is too concerned with looking at their watch.

I do a lot of endurance mtn bike races and you generally see the same thing in these races. Also, I think the fewer the categories the more of this compassion you see. Unless you're a top 10 contender overall, you're not going to be looking at someone stopped on the trail as a potential age-group competitor. It continually reaffirms my belief that, in general, there is goodness in people.

Again, nice work on Leadville.

Jaani
02-19-2009, 17:53
Trail running is by far the best way to get dirty and get fit. Your hiking will improve, your sense of adventure will be piqued, you won't ever want to run on pavement again. You'll be able to go places that you've never had the time to do before (and still be home in time for dinner). More importantly it's fun, you're outside, without a care in the world, which really seems like the goal anyway.

You can always bike to the trail, a little warm-up and cool-down.

Watch out for roots!

RockDoc
02-19-2009, 19:23
Yes, trail running and ultras dovetail nicely with hiking.

I did the Pikes Peak marathon in 1988 and was hooked. Have done 42 events since, including 4 50 milers in 2008. Did the JFK 50, then two days later hiked the AT from PenMar to HF.

But you don't have to run ultras to run trails.

Running trails will help your strength, balance, and endurance, all good for hiking. Also there are some good ideas for food, hydration, and gear that apply to hiking. And as mentioned the running community is great; many previous thru hikers, generally interesting folks who really love life.

Here in Seattle we can do organized trail runs almost every weekend, year round. Sometimes we do one on Sat, then another on Sunday. Check out www.marathonmaniacs.com (http://www.marathonmaniacs.com), it has a good calendar of events (often they are free).

sherrill
02-19-2009, 22:46
This summer in Peru we were passed by folks doing the Inca Trail marathon. We saw them 2 days later in Machu Picchu, one woman said she did it in about 9 hours. That's pretty intense.

sherrill
02-19-2009, 22:49
Or last summer I should have said. :-?

fiddlehead
02-20-2009, 03:03
Another thought is to join your local Hash House Harriers.
I joined the one here in Phuket and it is awesome.
About 80-100 runners every saturday. They run exclusively on dirt roads and trails and rubber tree plantation with your occasional pineapple field thrown in for a real challenge.

The runs are only 1 hour but it can be as intense as you want it with the Hash rules the way they are. I believe the rules are universal and there are chapters all over the world.
There are a few whiteblaze members who are hashers (i had a pm from one less than a month ago)

Plodderman
07-30-2009, 15:37
It's hard to find good streets in Wheelersburg to run on too. Had to stay in town a couple of years when my wife's uncle died (she's orig from Portsmouth/Sciotaville). Ran headfirst into a streetsign (blinded by oncoming car) and was nearly ran over multi-times when I left the Day's Inn at o-dark-thirty on training runs. :) But def a different flavor of running, stomping thru slushy snow.


Flemdawg1 you are right. Running in Wheelersburg is like playing a game of dodge ball and some of the cars just will not yield. It drove me to trial running in Wayne National Forrest fewer cars but an occasional four wheeler.

windy city
07-30-2009, 16:54
Excellent new book on ultra running. http://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Hidden-Superathletes-Greatest/dp/0307266303/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1248986752&sr=8-14

Mags
07-30-2009, 18:18
Don't forget this new Forum here on WB:
Trail Running and Speed Hiking (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=490)

dreamsoftrails
08-04-2009, 09:18
where is the masochist held?

Reid
08-04-2009, 09:37
I've tried it but I can't seem to get comfortable carrying water and I don't like to go without it. Carrying a pack just doesnt seem right when trail running. Maybe I'm not doing it right? Dont know.

John B
08-04-2009, 09:52
I've tried it but I can't seem to get comfortable carrying water and I don't like to go without it. Carrying a pack just doesnt seem right when trail running. Maybe I'm not doing it right? Dont know.

This thread is wandering about more than a loop trail and my reply certainly won't help, but in regard to water and how to carry, you do have several options.

Option 1 is a hand-held water bottle -- they come in various sizes but the 'standard' seems to be 20 oz. Most are tailored so that they are easy to grip, and many come with a strap to improve carrying ease.

Option 2 is a "bottle pack," which is like a belt that holds water bottles of various sizes. I've seen belts that can hold three 16-oz bottles; mine holds two 12-oz bottles. This option typically has a small pouch for energy gel, a headlamp, small compression straps so that you can carry a lightweight jacket without fear of losing it, etc. Needless to say, this option frees up your hands, thus improving balance, and places the weight of the water on your hips. This seems to be the option of choice for long training runs.

Option 3 is a camelback pack, which I'm sure you've seen. This is also increasingly popular with hikers. The benefit is that you can typically carry a bit more water, and the small pack also allows for carrying a bit of gear.

I have both the hand-held bottle and also a bottle pack. If it's a short run -- say, under 10 miles -- I tend to use the hand held; if longer, or if the weather is sketchy, then the bottle belt is my choice.

For a huge selection of hydration options, check out www.zombierunner.com (http://www.zombierunner.com) They carry tons of running gear -- everything from gels to gu to clothes to supplements. They also have first-rate customer service.

Lone Wolf
08-04-2009, 10:02
where is the masochist held?

it's starts outside Lynchburg, Va. on the blue ridge parkway and ends at Montibello, Va. 54 miles
http://eco-xsports.com/mmtr.php

Engine
08-04-2009, 13:04
it's starts outside Lynchburg, Va. on the blue ridge parkway and ends at Montibello, Va. 54 miles
http://eco-xsports.com/mmtr.php

Or just 50 "Horton" miles. : )

dreamsoftrails
08-05-2009, 00:06
it's starts outside Lynchburg, Va. on the blue ridge parkway and ends at Montibello, Va. 54 miles
http://eco-xsports.com/mmtr.php

awesome, thank you sir.