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mweinstone
02-20-2009, 07:52
allways wondered. why dont millitarys look into the seriouse use of seasoned,in shape, hardened thruhikers as trainees for special opps.i understand fully that my friends like squarrel and other rangers and shine and green barets have way way way more skill sets but what about our skillsets? are they perticularly singular in some way usefull toward peace? gabish?

mweinstone
02-20-2009, 07:54
im not a trhuhiker................yet.

TOW
02-20-2009, 07:59
Better yet, why don't the government pass into law making it mandatory for every child in the United States to serve at least two years in the military once they have completed high school?

mweinstone
02-20-2009, 08:07
larry! we have to talk non political fantasy here to not get shut down. what you doin for your old age? wanna be a general in the new world hiker order? general wanderer.

superman
02-20-2009, 08:12
allways wondered. why dont millitarys look into the seriouse use of seasoned,in shape, hardened thruhikers as trainees for special opps.i understand fully that my friends like squarrel and other rangers and shine and green barets have way way way more skill sets but what about our skillsets? are they perticularly singular in some way usefull toward peace? gabish?

Huh, in what way do you think going for a hike would qualify you to be a trainy for spec.ops or anything else in the military?

Hooch
02-20-2009, 08:25
I gotta agree with Superman. Just because someone can hike from Georgia to Maine, or vice-versa, doesn't necessarily qualify them automatically to be an operator in any branch of the US military special operations. Anyone who's been there knows the kind. It takes a certain breed with a mindset that's almost totally removed from his peers and stand up head and shoulders above them to be able to succeed in special ops, regardless of branch.

Pedaling Fool
02-20-2009, 08:56
...are they perticularly singular in some way usefull toward peace? gabish?
World Peace is bad for the global economy.:)

4eyedbuzzard
02-20-2009, 08:57
allways wondered. why dont millitarys look into the seriouse use of seasoned,in shape, hardened thruhikers as trainees for special opps.i understand fully that my friends like squarrel and other rangers and shine and green barets have way way way more skill sets but what about our skillsets? are they perticularly singular in some way usefull toward peace? gabish?

Think about the motivations of why people thru-hike and the types of personalities drawn to thru-hiking. Most thru-hikers are fulfilling some sort of selfish internal need. And while not all, a lot of these personality traits that draw them to thru-hiking aren't terribly compatible with military service. The military needs people who can be formed into a team and follow orders without letting a lot of self-interests and philosophical issues get in the way. And the military's job, especially spec ops, isn't necessarily about establishing peace, it's about completing a specific mission, and it usually isn't particularly peaceful in nature. Establishing peace tends to be the State Department's job.

Lone Wolf
02-20-2009, 09:07
i can't believe some of you are takin' matty serious with your goofy explanations :rolleyes:

catfishrivers
02-20-2009, 09:11
Wolverines!

superman
02-20-2009, 09:16
i can't believe some of you are takin' matty serious with your goofy explanations :rolleyes:

Take him serious? I seldom have any idea what he's talking about. I have wondered if either he or I have had too many cups of coffee.:)

Hooch
02-20-2009, 09:41
I think they should recruit Matty for work as an encryption specialist. Man, the Navajo Code Talkers didn't have crap on him.

buff_jeff
02-20-2009, 10:28
Better yet, why don't the government pass into law making it mandatory for every child in the United States to serve at least two years in the military once they have completed high school?

Because that's the antithesis of everything America is supposed to stand for, and the military doesn't need any more idiots who don't want to be there.

hootyhoo
02-20-2009, 10:44
Better yet, why don't the government pass into law making it mandatory for every child in the United States to serve at least two years in the military once they have completed high school?

Yeah - and kids that cannot participate in the military due to physical restraints could be used by Merck and Phizer to test new drugs.
And instead of paying lots of money to clear mine fields we could just send old people out in their hover rounds - or maybe puppies.

Or... we could keep the Military out of our high schools - and, and, I say and pay our troops a descent salary and give decent benefits.

Did you hear about the Veterans hospital that installed a valve incorrectly and pumped fecal juice from patient to patient? Recently. Nasty.

Jaybird
02-20-2009, 10:48
Better yet, why don't the government pass into law making it mandatory for every child in the United States to serve at least two years in the military once they have completed high school?


AMEN, Brother!

randyg45
02-20-2009, 10:50
wolverines!

Airborne!!!!

Hooch
02-20-2009, 10:52
Did you hear about the Veterans hospital that installed a valve incorrectly and pumped fecal juice from patient to patient? Recently. Nasty.Sorry, but speaking as a nurse, I gotta wave the BS flag on this one. I challenge you to provide legimate, recognized documentation of this. If I'm worong, I'll be man enough to admit it.

jersey joe
02-20-2009, 11:07
Not sure about special opps., but matty's might have some merit considering an article on yahoo last week that stated:

"Since the start of the Iraq War in 2003 the number of overweight and obese US military has doubled...from then to 2008 the number doubled to 68,786 (4.4 percent of the total)."

Rockhound
02-20-2009, 11:11
I think they should recruit Matty for work as an encryption specialist. Man, the Navajo Code Talkers didn't have crap on him.
! problem with that. They would need someone on the other end of the radio that could understand *** he's saying. :-?

Sly
02-20-2009, 11:21
Think about the motivations of why people thru-hike and the types of personalities drawn to thru-hiking. Most thru-hikers are fulfilling some sort of selfish internal need. And while not all, a lot of these personality traits that draw them to thru-hiking aren't terribly compatible with military service. The military needs people who can be formed into a team and follow orders without letting a lot of self-interests and philosophical issues get in the way. And the military's job, especially spec ops, isn't necessarily about establishing peace, it's about completing a specific mission, and it usually isn't particularly peaceful in nature. Establishing peace tends to be the State Department's job.

Of course you can't compare motivations for thru-hiking and special ops but you also can't pigeon hole those motivations. Lots of thru-hikers are former military. If you think it's easy to hike from GA to ME or Mexico to Canada try it sometime. It takes a certain attitude to complete the mission.

Tinker
02-20-2009, 11:27
Because that's the antithesis of everything America is supposed to stand for, and the military doesn't need any more idiots who don't want to be there.
Amen to that! Folks considering a career in the military have to decide whether they can kill on command before they sign up. That's what their job is - dispose of the enemy.

I need to explain, backtrack a bit. The job of the military is to protect the citizens of the USA. The threat of death to the nation's enemies is the deterrent (peacekeeping through intimidation). It works.

superman
02-20-2009, 11:28
Of course you can't compare motivations for thru-hiking and special ops but you also can't pigeon hole those motivations. Lots of thru-hikers are former military. If you think it's easy to hike from GA to ME or Mexico to Canada try it sometime. It takes a certain attitude to complete the mission.

While many military folks can thru hike I'm not so sure that completing a thru provides any credentials for success in the military. I've done both.

jersey joe
02-20-2009, 11:33
While many military folks can thru hike I'm not so sure that completing a thru provides any credentials for success in the military. I've done both.
I'd bet that the majority of military folks couldn't complete a thru hike.

superman
02-20-2009, 13:59
I'd bet that the majority of military folks couldn't complete a thru hike.

I have no doubt at all that the ones I served with could...even now.

bikerscars
02-20-2009, 14:29
I'd bet that the majority of military folks couldn't complete a thru hike.

you'd lose that bet

theinfamousj
02-20-2009, 14:35
Airborne!!!!

Do significant others get to chant this, too? I'm never quite sure of the rules.

hopefulhiker
02-20-2009, 14:42
When I first started out, a fellow at Gooch shelter wanted to name me "Sniper".. I thought there might be some unintended consequences having a name like that....

Dogwood
02-20-2009, 15:07
allways wondered. why dont millitarys look into the seriouse use of seasoned,in shape, hardened thruhikers as trainees for special opps....?

Because it usually takes more than being seasoned, in shape, being hardened, or seriousness to qualify as a training operative for special forces. Wouldn't you think that the military wants the Best of the Best to train the Best of the Best? Seriously, whether someone is a thru-hiker or not, how many qualify as being the Best of the Best?

buff_jeff
02-20-2009, 15:21
You have to be a special type of idiot to want to do either. :D

Powder River
02-20-2009, 15:23
Wolverines!

Best movie ever.

Bearpaw
02-20-2009, 15:27
The SOF is a bit different than most of the regular military. It requires the ability to work together, but also a very strong independent streak. Many even within the military don't understand it, and I don't know any from the outside that haven't been inundated with images of Rambo.

Would a successful thru-hiker be good in spec ops? No way of knowing til you run them through boot camp, advanced training, jump school, and a WHOLE lot more. Thru-hiking in itself isn't remotely enough.

Dogwood
02-20-2009, 15:31
The military has and still does tap the ranks of those with special skills or talents like: SAR personnel, civilian law enforcement, firefighters, survivalists, mountaineers, self defense specialists, civilian pilots, engineers, computer technicians, navigational specialists, mathematicians, scientists, linguists etc. And, perhaps, someone somewhere in the military has considered the specific skill sets that thru-hikers may have, but whether or not a specific thru-hiker is fit for service at a particular level that has to be individually determined. Just because someone has thru-hiked doesn't automatically make them suitable for military service on any level.

Hooch
02-20-2009, 15:48
You have to be a special type of idiot to want to do either. :D......

The Weasel
02-20-2009, 15:50
Better yet, why don't the government pass into law making it mandatory for every child in the United States to serve at least two years in the military once they have completed high school?

We tried this once. We had this war. We found out that maybe that wasn't the best way to fight wars or support them. We lost that war. We changed things. Since then we haven't lost. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

TW

buff_jeff
02-20-2009, 15:51
......

Sarcasm detectors off...?

Sly
02-20-2009, 15:59
I'd bet that the majority of military folks couldn't complete a thru hike.

I wouldn't say the majority couldn't finish but some wouldn't if only due to injury or lack of motivation. Like the military, no one forces you to sign up. Unlike the military, it's easier to quit on your own.

I have no doubt it would be easier to complete basic after a thru-hike than before.

My point is special ops and completing a thru-hiking take sacrifice and motivation beyond the norm.

Sly
02-20-2009, 16:02
We tried this once. We had this war. We found out that maybe that wasn't the best way to fight wars or support them. We lost that war. We changed things. Since then we haven't lost. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

TW

Yeah but we also had wars we won with a draft.

The Weasel
02-20-2009, 16:06
Yeah but we also had wars we won with a draft.

In your lifetime?

TW

Nightwalker
02-20-2009, 16:10
AMEN, Brother!

Every time someone comes up with the idea of the compulsory, 100% draft, I want to ask: "so, how many years did you serve?"

The Weasel
02-20-2009, 16:19
Every time someone comes up with the idea of the compulsory, 100% draft, I want to ask: "so, how many years did you serve?"

Actually, the better question is for those who are volunteers (and professionals) already serving: "How many of you want to serve with someone who doesn't want to be there with you?"

TW

Slimer
02-20-2009, 16:19
Most hikers are entirely too liberal for spec. ops
They would end up feeding, clothing and supporting the enemy.... and eventually persuade the enemy to run for public office.

Hooch
02-20-2009, 16:19
Yeah but we also had wars we won with a draft.The man's right, Weasy. Whether or not it happened in his lifetime isn't the point.

maybeFritz
02-20-2009, 16:32
If a thru hiker wanted to joining the military, SOCOM or otherwise, I their experience would probably be an asset. I don't know of any recently on the froggy side of things that have thru-hiked before joining, but that certainly doesn't rule it out-and it wouldn't be surprising. The recruiters would love to talk to them-it shows some level of physical fitness and a dedication to carrying out a goal. I am fairly certain, however, that putting a recruiting station on Springer would be frowned on by the hiking community as a whole.

Also, active duty cuts down the time available for hiking-at least hiking your own hike varieties-pretty significantly.

The Weasel
02-20-2009, 16:42
The man's right, Weasy. Whether or not it happened in his lifetime isn't the point.

Well, actually he's not right. At least for the proposition that "let's draft everyone for two years because it's good for us, somehow." The first draft - the Union in the Civil War - wasn't a model of patriotism, since it allowed the wealthy to buy substitutes for them, and the Confederacy didn't get far with it, either. The second draft - World War I - had fewer than a third of eligible men serve, and even WWII had fewer than a quarter of eligible men drafted. So none of them really support the "everyone in for two years" position that periodically people come up with to somehow "improve" our youth or our country.

Sorry. By the way, my name isn't "Weasy."

TW

buff_jeff
02-20-2009, 16:43
Actually, the better question is for those who are volunteers (and professionals) already serving: "How many of you want to serve with someone who doesn't want to be there with you?"

TW

Not me, and this is a huge point of contention for most people in the military, I think. Nobody wants to get killed because somebody is there who doesn't want to be.

Nightwalker
02-20-2009, 16:44
Actually, the better question is for those who are volunteers (and professionals) already serving: "How many of you want to serve with someone who doesn't want to be there with you?"

TW

So how many years did you serve?

rcli4
02-20-2009, 16:48
Not me, and this is a huge point of contention for most people in the military, I think. Nobody wants to get killed because somebody is there who doesn't want to be.


This is not an issue. Once folks start shooting, nobody wants to be there, but everyone does what they need to do.

Clyde
And before you ask frank yes I did

Hooch
02-20-2009, 16:50
Well, actually he's not right. At least for the proposition that "let's draft everyone for two years because it's good for us, somehow." The first draft - the Union in the Civil War - wasn't a model of patriotism, since it allowed the wealthy to buy substitutes for them, and the Confederacy didn't get far with it, either. The second draft - World War I - had fewer than a third of eligible men serve, and even WWII had fewer than a quarter of eligible men drafted. So none of them really support the "everyone in for two years" position that periodically people come up with to somehow "improve" our youth or our country.

Sorry. By the way, my name isn't "Weasy."

TWI hate to be the one to break it to ya Weasy, but no system works 100% all the time. If you think it does, you're sorely mistaken and horribly misinformed.

Vibe
02-20-2009, 16:51
Better yet, why don't the government pass into law making it mandatory for every child in the United States to serve at least two years in the military once they have completed high school?


Because that's the antithesis of everything America is supposed to stand for, and the military doesn't need any more idiots who don't want to be there.
In truth buff_jeff is incorrect an mandatory service was part of our early history.
But it was Militia service which was required. Conscientious objectors paid a tax for the privilege of not serving.

Second Militia Act of 1792

The second Act, passed May 8, 1792, provided for the organization of the state militias. It conscripted every "free able-bodied white male citizen" between the ages of 18 and 45 into a local militia company overseen by the state. Militia members were required to arm themselves at their own expense with a musket, bayonet and belt, two spare flints, a cartridge box with 24 bullets, and a knapsack. Men owning rifles were required to provide a powder horn, 1/4 pound of gun powder, 20 rifle balls, a shooting pouch, and a knapsack.[3] Some occupations were exempt, such as congressmen, stagecoach drivers, and ferryboatmen. Otherwise, men were required to report for training twice a year, usually in the Spring and Fall.

Hooch
02-20-2009, 16:51
So how many years did you serve?Damn good quetion. Ok, TW, inquiring minds want to know. You're about Vietnam age. Do tell us all about your service.

Vibe
02-20-2009, 16:54
I'd bet that the majority of military folks couldn't complete a thru hike.
Some MOS that might be true. I'd wager that he majority of Marines could.

Sly
02-20-2009, 16:57
Most hikers are entirely too liberal for spec. ops
They would end up feeding, clothing and supporting the enemy.... and eventually persuade the enemy to run for public office.

Dopiest post today. Congrat.

Sly
02-20-2009, 17:01
In your lifetime?

TW


The man's right, Weasy. Whether or not it happened in his lifetime isn't the point.

As a matter of fact yeah, Korea.

Without a draft, how many have we won without any help? :-?

bloodmountainman
02-20-2009, 17:10
Most hikers are entirely too liberal for spec. ops
They would end up feeding, clothing and supporting the enemy.... and eventually persuade the enemy to run for public office.
Best post ever.....way too true!!:cool:

The Weasel
02-20-2009, 17:12
So how many years did you serve?

None, despite my best efforts to get into the USMC in 1965, and later, the USN.

TW

Lugnut
02-20-2009, 17:15
Dopiest post today. Congrat.

We right wing heretics liked it! :banana

Hooch
02-20-2009, 17:20
Actually, the better question is for those who are volunteers (and professionals) already serving: "How many of you want to serve with someone who doesn't want to be there with you?"

TWDo you honestly believe that everyone who enlists want to be there the entire run of their enlistment? They may have when they joined, since our military is all volunteer, but not everyone feels that way 1, 2 or however many years down the line. There are a lot of people who join who find out that the military isn't for them once they've been there a while.


So how many years did you serve?


None.......Then don't be so quick to criticize the military or it's systems, whether current of former, if you've never served. It seems to me that those who have never served and the quickest to pont fingers or criticize. Obviously that's the case with you, Weasy.

superman
02-20-2009, 17:23
Not me, and this is a huge point of contention for most people in the military, I think. Nobody wants to get killed because somebody is there who doesn't want to be.

I can't quote any statistics on the subject. All I can tell you about draftees is from my personal experience. When I got to the 1st ID in 66 I wasn't aware of any draftees around me. Most everyone had volunteered for the infantry and Vietnam. In 67 the drafted replacements seemed to increase substantially. The first peace symbol I saw was on a helmet of a man who was drafted and he was good man to have when in the deep poo. The percentage of draftees continued to increase until I left in 68. Bear in mind that the majority of the guys around me all the time I was in country were volunteers...not draftees. Of the draftees, the vast majority of them did an out standing job...even though they didn't choose to be there and some were even against the war. There was a very, very small percentage who actually caused a greater risk to the soldiers around them. The CO pretty much squared them away fast. There was only one that I was aware of who got a dishonorable discharge.

bloodmountainman
02-20-2009, 17:26
Not me, and this is a huge point of contention for most people in the military, I think. Nobody wants to get killed because somebody is there who doesn't want to be.
Nobody in a combat zone "wants to be there".

bikerscars
02-20-2009, 17:26
i was in the army for 4.5 years (extended due to desert storm)
knew it wasn't for me during AIT
made the best of it
2 years mandatory service (no exceptions...none) would do more good than harm imho
if a conscientious objector than there's non-combat MOS's to fill (maybe 3 years if not willing to face harm)

The Weasel
02-20-2009, 17:30
As a matter of fact yeah, Korea.

Without a draft, how many have we won without any help? :-?

Good question (assuming "any help" means "no draft"); my take

Wins/No Draft:

(1) Revolutionary War
(2) 1812 (I count it a win; many say it was a draw)
(3) Seminole War (counted as a win but many feel a draw)
(4) Mexican War
(5) Indian Wars (not justifying, but we won)
(6) Spanish-American War
(7) Philipine-American War
(9) Mexican Intervention (1916) (I'll agree it didn't rise to a "war" but some think it was)
(10) Granada Intervention (Ditto)
(11) Panama War
(12) Iraq I
(13) Iraq II (first stage)
(14) Iraq II (current - I think we're winning).

Wars won with drafts:

(1) Civil War (Union)
(2) WWI
(3) WWII

Wars lost/draws with drafts:

(1) War Between the States (Confederacy)
(2) Korea - doesn't count as a "win" (unless "win" means denying the enemy the goals it sought) but it clearly is a draw

I've left out assorted interventions from the Boxer Rebellion, the Russian Revolution, Haiti/Mexico/Dominican Republic and so on in the Caribbean that involved real troops but not really combat (many Vietnam Vets still have hard feelings about LBJ's award of the CI Badge to troops sent to the Dominican Republic).

In short, conscription has been useful or even necessary sometimes but only for powerfully supported wartime situations. As a "let's draft everyone, all the time" kind of thing, it's never worked or, for that matter, even been seriously proposed.

TW

Lugnut
02-20-2009, 17:32
Sorry. By the way, my name isn't "Weasy."

TW


Since you call me Lug can I call you Weasy? :p

Slimer
02-20-2009, 17:39
sly,
its not too late for you to run for public office.

The Weasel
02-20-2009, 17:40
Since you call me Lug can I call you Weasy? :p

My apologies. It was a typo that I sent before checking; edit fixes it. Thanks for catching me.

TW

jersey joe
02-20-2009, 17:50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jersey joe http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=784324#post784324)
I'd bet that the majority of military folks couldn't complete a thru hike.


you'd lose that bet
Well, my reasoning is that if the normal completion rate is estimated at around 1 in 8 or 10 for folks that actually have a desire to complete a thru hike, then I really don't see why the rate of completion for military folks would be better than 1 in 2.

flemdawg1
02-20-2009, 17:51
Well the do recruit on the adventure-race scene.

http://www.paramuspost.com/article.php/20060814211559982

bikerscars
02-20-2009, 17:54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jersey joe http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=784324#post784324)
I'd bet that the majority of military folks couldn't complete a thru hike.


Well, my reasoning is that if the normal completion rate is estimated at around 1 in 8 or 10 for folks that actually have a desire to complete a thru hike, then I really don't see why the rate of completion for military folks would be better than 1 in 2.

i was looking at it as though you thought the people would not be capable of a thru...it's all good...i prefer:sun a less crowded trail anyway

jersey joe
02-20-2009, 18:03
i was looking at it as though you thought the people would not be capable of a thru...it's all good...i prefer:sun a less crowded trail anyway
Nah, almost anyone CAN do a thru hike. I just don't think being in the military necessarily increases the likelyhood of finishing a thru hike...no more than finishing a thru hike increases the likelyhood of getting into special opps.

The Weasel
02-20-2009, 18:08
Actually, while much of this is interesting, it's slightly demented, too. I mean I'm having a real problem getting my mental arms around the idea of, say, Granny Gatewood or Bill Irwin with a green beret on, being parachuted into, say, Afghanistan as part of a mission to take out Jerkface bin Laden. Or, Kirby, who is a bit young for it yet. Or the legion of middle aged guys with assorted physical and mental issues (like me, in other words) who (unlike me, yet) have demonstrated basically that they can stay upright for 5 million steps or so. Long distance hiking is fun, it shows stamina and a few other things, but other than the chance to wear camos, I guess, it's not really a military skill, much less "special ops".

Ah well.

TW

Sly
02-20-2009, 18:15
We right wing heretics liked it! :banana

Yeah may have like it but it doesn't make it true. I'd have no problem shooting a terrorist point blank in the head. Maybe I'm not as liberal as I think. :D

Lugnut
02-20-2009, 18:23
There may be hope for you yet! :D

Sly
02-20-2009, 18:26
No help means, no help from an ally. Draft also means involuntary state militia. Separate wars from interventions like Panama and Grenada. Now check your list again.




Good question (assuming "any help" means "no draft"); my take

Wins/No Draft:

(1) Revolutionary War
(2) 1812 (I count it a win; many say it was a draw)
(3) Seminole War (counted as a win but many feel a draw)
(4) Mexican War
(5) Indian Wars (not justifying, but we won)
(6) Spanish-American War
(7) Philipine-American War
(9) Mexican Intervention (1916) (I'll agree it didn't rise to a "war" but some think it was)
(10) Granada Intervention (Ditto)
(11) Panama War
(12) Iraq I
(13) Iraq II (first stage)
(14) Iraq II (current - I think we're winning).

Wars won with drafts:

(1) Civil War (Union)
(2) WWI
(3) WWII

Wars lost/draws with drafts:

(1) War Between the States (Confederacy)
(2) Korea - doesn't count as a "win" (unless "win" means denying the enemy the goals it sought) but it clearly is a draw

I've left out assorted interventions from the Boxer Rebellion, the Russian Revolution, Haiti/Mexico/Dominican Republic and so on in the Caribbean that involved real troops but not really combat (many Vietnam Vets still have hard feelings about LBJ's award of the CI Badge to troops sent to the Dominican Republic).

In short, conscription has been useful or even necessary sometimes but only for powerfully supported wartime situations. As a "let's draft everyone, all the time" kind of thing, it's never worked or, for that matter, even been seriously proposed.

TW

Rockhound
02-20-2009, 18:36
I did serve and would gladly serve again if I felt the cause was just. Afghanistan yes. Iraq no. It is not our job to dispose of every evil dictatorship in the world. If it was there are a dozen other countries we should be at war with right now. Syria, N. Korea..... Saddam Hussein was Sunni, running a secular govt. in the middle east. Al Qaeda hated him nearly as much as they hated the *.S. There was no 9-11, Al Qaeda Iraq connection, no WMDs, yet 6000+ Americans have given their lives in Iraq. You all remember this quote I'm sure. "We will go after the terrorists and the COUTRIES THAT HARBOR THEM" Yet 8 years later we are still bogged down in Iraq while we have no troops in Pakistan which is terrorism central in the world today. In fact if you want a 9-11 connection, Umar siieek Saieed(spell check) a member of the Pakastani secret service sent tens of thousands of dollars to Mohammed Atta who in turn distributed it among the other hijackers and helped finance the 9-11 attacks. There is physical documentation proving this. The paper (or electronic) trail leads right back to Pakistan. You can call me some hippie wannabe bleeding heart liberal if you want to but the fact is I am not anti-war. I just think that if we are going to put American lives at risk the cause had better be just. A war on terrorism fits that description. A war to gain control of the last of the worlds dwindiling oil supply does not.

Sly
02-20-2009, 18:41
Hey Rockhound you feel the way I do. I'm not against war, just dumb wars. here's a Youtube clip that brings i all into prospective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUV69LZbCNQ

Vibe
02-20-2009, 18:51
Yeah may have like it but it doesn't make it true.
Were you not watching the News in November? Looks true enough from here.
:-?

Blue Jay
02-20-2009, 18:59
I just think that if we are going to put American lives at risk the cause had better be just. A war on terrorism fits that description. A war to gain control of the last of the worlds dwindiling oil supply does not.

Actually it didn't even do that.

Rockhound
02-20-2009, 19:02
We now have 14 PERMANENT bases there. Were working on it.

rcli4
02-20-2009, 19:10
Hey Rockhound you feel the way I do. I'm not against war, just dumb wars. here's a Youtube clip that brings i all into prospective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUV69LZbCNQ

But Sly you are driving your car out west with gas that came from IRAQ. Everyone drives to trail heads on gas from Iraq. I like gas. I like the life that energy gives me. I suspect everyone on this list enjoys the fuel the war in Iraq allows them to burn. If you think the war is dumb, prove it, walk out west to start your hike.

Clyde

Bearpaw
02-20-2009, 19:35
Maybe I'm not as liberal as I think. :D

Trust me Sly, you're NOT as liberal as you think. ;)

Pedaling Fool
02-20-2009, 19:42
Trust me Sly, you're NOT as liberal as you think. ;)
Very True. At least by my definition. In many ways these terms Conservative / Liberal has run it's course -- it's time to get away from them. Everyone has there definition and it's so screwed up now about the only thing it does is create animosity among people who really are not that different from one another.

Lone Wolf
02-20-2009, 20:07
Since you call me Lug can I call you Weasy? :p

he has cutesy little names for everybody but don't get cute with him. hypocrite

leprechaun
02-20-2009, 20:26
Well the do recruit on the adventure-race scene.

http://www.paramuspost.com/article.php/20060814211559982


read an article in Outside magazine :( (bored in a book store) and they specifically mentioned changing their recruiting tactics away from football/soccer type athletes to more adventure based activities. Navy SEALs in particular have recieved a jump in training completion due to this new tactic. theres a world of difference between thru hiking/mountain climbing/adventure racing and special forces training, but there are similiarities.

Dogwood
02-20-2009, 20:27
Wow, from discussiing thru-hikers suitabilty for military service and contributing to peace to discussing the draft and political and military strategy in the middle east to anti-war sentiments to liberalism - never know where a discussion on a "all things related to hiking" forum like WB might lead!

bikerscars
02-20-2009, 20:31
Wow, from discussiing thru-hikers suitabilty for military service and contributing to peace to discussing the draft and political and military strategy in the middle east to anti-war sentiments to liberalism - never know where a discussion on a "all things related to hiking" forum like WB might lead!

it would seem that all things are interconnected

The Weasel
02-20-2009, 20:37
My apologies. It was a typo that I sent before checking; edit fixes it. Thanks for catching me.

TW


he has cutesy little names for everybody but don't get cute with him. hypocrite

Actually, not. Enjoy your fantasies, Lone Wolf. :D

superman
02-20-2009, 20:37
Wow, from discussiing thru-hikers suitabilty for military service and contributing to peace to discussing the draft and political and military strategy in the middle east to anti-war sentiments to liberalism - never know where a discussion on a "all things related to hiking" forum like WB might lead!

The thread had an inscrutable beginning to start with.:)

Rockhound
02-20-2009, 22:01
I retract my previous statements. I say we just nuke the whole middle east. Make it a frickin' parking lot. Kill em' all and let god sort em' out. That we we would not even need the special forces. Just send in the MPs and the Engineers to clean up the mess when it's done. HOO-RAH

Mal the Elder
02-20-2009, 22:31
.... Then don't be so quick to criticize the military or it's systems, whether current of former, if you've never served. It seems to me that those who have never served and the quickest to pont fingers or criticize. Obviously that's the case with you, Weasy.
True enough. BTW, many of the draftees in WW II were men who volunteered and were sent home to await their draft notices. The draft was used, in large part, to organize the influx of people who wanted to serve---including my father.

Personally, I've always stood with Bob Heinlein's opinions on the draft. Go read Starship Troopers. The movies using that name are abominations---don't take any cues from them.

And yes, I'm a Army veteran from a combat arms unit.

Tinker
02-20-2009, 23:02
I'd bet that the majority of military folks couldn't complete a thru hike.

The majority of sane folks wouldn't want to. :cool:;)

Tinker
02-20-2009, 23:16
it would seem that all things are interconnected

"Butterfly Effect". Interesting theory.:-?

Lugnut
02-20-2009, 23:26
I retract my previous statements. I say we just nuke the whole middle east. Make it a frickin' parking lot. Kill em' all and let god sort em' out. That we we would not even need the special forces. Just send in the MPs and the Engineers to clean up the mess when it's done. HOO-RAH


Finally, a reasonable solution to the problem! :p

Desert Reprobate
02-20-2009, 23:32
After they nuke em, they can go in and shoot the ones that glow in the dark

Lugnut
02-20-2009, 23:38
Night missions are good except you can't smoke.

camojack
02-21-2009, 01:30
When I first started out, a fellow at Gooch shelter wanted to name me "Sniper".. I thought there might be some unintended consequences having a name like that....
You probably misheard; "diaper" would be a more descriptive trail name for you, since you're often full of...never mind. :D

hopefulhiker
02-21-2009, 01:34
Hey, I did complete the thru.... call me what you want...

camojack
02-21-2009, 02:08
Hey, I did complete the thru.... call me what you want...
Oh, I do. Mostly just hopeLESS... :D

The Weasel
02-21-2009, 06:51
Do you honestly believe that everyone who enlists want to be there the entire run of their enlistment? They may have when they joined, since our military is all volunteer, but not everyone feels that way 1, 2 or however many years down the line. There are a lot of people who join who find out that the military isn't for them once they've been there a while.


Then don't be so quick to criticize the military or it's systems, whether current of former, if you've never served. It seems to me that those who have never served and the quickest to pont fingers or criticize. Obviously that's the case with you, Weasy.

Well, gosh, Hooch. I don't criticize the military, and haven't here - or elsewhere - although I guess you wish I would. Gonna be a long wait for you until I do, but you just keep on keepin' on. Point fingers? Yeah, but only at those who seem to want to make the military do a lot of things that the military wasn't designed to do and only will do because a lot of people like you think it's a great idea. It's the "Yeah, draft everyone 'cause it'll be good for them," crowd that wants our armed forces to be some kind of social welfare summer camp instead of continuing to do what they've done - well - as professionals. I'm sure that all those people who don't want to be in the armed forces are just what the military wants. And yeah, you keep on attacking anyone who disagrees with you by making things up. Have fun, and have a wonderful day.

TW

TOW
02-21-2009, 07:01
larry! we have to talk non political fantasy here to not get shut down. what you doin for your old age? wanna be a general in the new world hiker order? general wanderer.
we ain't gonna get shut down because they are afraid of you and me because we have done gone batty and they don't mess with done gone batty folk.........

TOW
02-21-2009, 07:04
i can't believe some of you are takin' matty serious with your goofy explanations :rolleyes:because seriously we just want to be serious..........k?

TOW
02-21-2009, 07:14
I think they should recruit Matty for work as an encryption specialist. Man, the Navajo Code Talkers didn't have crap on him.Tis is true........:D


Because that's the antithesis of everything America is supposed to stand for, and the military doesn't need any more idiots who don't want to be there.The truth of the matter is there are plenty of jobs that even an idiot could do like latrine duty and policing the grounds.......


Yeah - and kids that cannot participate in the military due to physical restraints could be used by Merck and Phizer to test new drugs.
And instead of paying lots of money to clear mine fields we could just send old people out in their hover rounds - or maybe puppies.

Or... we could keep the Military out of our high schools - and, and, I say and pay our troops a descent salary and give decent benefits.

Did you hear about the Veterans hospital that installed a valve incorrectly and pumped fecal juice from patient to patient? Recently. Nasty.Well I'll tell you what, the next time some group decides to blow something up in NYC they might decide to take down the whole damn village and we have stirred up a hornets nest over in the mideast enough so that it is festering and we are going to need a bigger army than we got to confront it if it ever goes there.

Besides it would teach our kids some right thinking and give them the sense of belonging. Why else do you think some of our kids that have nothing going at home are joining gangs?

And I think you are are full of fecal about the fecal matter........


Sorry, but speaking as a nurse, I gotta wave the BS flag on this one. I challenge you to provide legimate, recognized documentation of this. If I'm worong, I'll be man enough to admit it.Jim Dandy to the rescue, Jim Dandy to the rescue........:banana

TOW
02-21-2009, 07:24
Every time someone comes up with the idea of the compulsory, 100% draft, I want to ask: "so, how many years did you serve?"Well lets see, I served seventeen years as a military brat, then I served my country in a government position for awhile later on in life.......

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 10:38
I retract my previous statement. Killing any living creature is wrong and just asking for bad kharma. We should all live in peace and harmony with one another. If anyone feels the need to act out in violence, they should meditate or do some primal screaming therapy until that feeling passes. Meat is murder. Free Tibet.

Pedaling Fool
02-21-2009, 10:47
I retract my previous statement. Killing any living creature is wrong and just asking for bad kharma. We should all live in peace and harmony with one another. If anyone feels the need to act out in violence, they should meditate or do some primal screaming therapy until that feeling passes. Meat is murder. Free Tibet.
You can't be serious, what's Kharma?

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 10:49
If you knew me you would know I am seldom serious. Screw it. Nuke em' and reduce the surplus population.

Tinker
02-21-2009, 10:50
I retract my previous statement. Killing any living creature is wrong and just asking for bad kharma. We should all live in peace and harmony with one another. If anyone feels the need to act out in violence, they should meditate or do some primal screaming therapy until that feeling passes. Meat is murder. Free Tibet.

:rolleyes: Sarcastic?
Most people are uncomfortable with the idea of killing other people, even if they are enemies. I think we should take the leaders of any two warring states and put them in a locked room without weapons and see how it turns out.
I think I recall some guy saying "Love your enemies". Just how far does that go? I struggle with that one a lot. When you kill another human, it might not make you a murderer, but it does make you, by simple definition, a killer. Not a title I'd be comfortable with.

Pedaling Fool
02-21-2009, 10:50
Damn, too bad, I was hoping someone would finally explain this Kharma crap to me:sun

bikerscars
02-21-2009, 10:54
i dunno...
given a long enough time frame
what goes around comes around

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 10:55
I retract my last statement. All Osama needs is a big hug and forgiveness.

bloodmountainman
02-21-2009, 10:56
:rolleyes: Sarcastic?
Most people are uncomfortable with the idea of killing other people, even if they are enemies. I think we should take the leaders of any two warring states and put them in a locked room without weapons and see how it turns out.
I think I recall some guy saying "Love your enemies". Just how far does that go? I struggle with that one a lot. When you kill another human, it might not make you a murderer, but it does make you, by simple definition, a killer. Not a title I'd be comfortable with.
Would you like some releigion with your politics?

Pedaling Fool
02-21-2009, 10:58
Good and Bad things happen to us all, I don't see it as "comes around, goes around", it just happens.

Tinker
02-21-2009, 10:58
Would you like some releigion with your politics?

Why not? Even religion isn't sacred anymore. :rolleyes:

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 11:00
Kumbiyah baby. Kumbiyah.

Pedaling Fool
02-21-2009, 11:00
What I find funny about the "Non-religious" types is that many of them are "Spiritual".

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 11:15
What I find funny about the "Non-religious" types is that many of them are "Spiritual".
Whats so funny about that? Religion is a tool used to control the masses where as spirituality reflects ones personal relationship with god, the universe,nature, etc....

bikerscars
02-21-2009, 11:28
Good and Bad things happen to us all, I don't see it as "comes around, goes around", it just happens.

i'm not saying it's all part of some big plan, rather we make our beds that we gotta sleep in
although life is not fair by any stretch of the imagination

Pedaling Fool
02-21-2009, 11:36
Whats so funny about that? Religion is a tool used to control the masses where as spirituality reflects ones personal relationship with god, the universe,nature, etc....


i'm not saying it's all part of some big plan, rather we make our beds that we gotta sleep in
although life is not fair by any stretch of the imagination

I should have been more specific.

I was speaking of people that ridicule the bible and all the stories as fantasy, yet turn around and preach about the human spirit and Kharma (whatever that is). I’m not denying any of that, but if someone argues about (with much logic) the bible as being complete fantasy then how can they reason their belief in a human spirit or a universe that seeks revenge/reward for certain people.

My personal belief is still up in the air, just don’t like the people that bash one belief then adopt an equally tough belief system to believe in, unless you use FAITH as a way to believe.

FWIW, I also believe many religions have attempted to control people, vice live by their virtues, but that doesn’t mean religion is bad, it just has some bad people.

superman
02-21-2009, 11:52
allways wondered. why dont millitarys look into the seriouse use of seasoned,in shape, hardened thruhikers as trainees for special opps.i understand fully that my friends like squarrel and other rangers and shine and green barets have way way way more skill sets but what about our skillsets? are they perticularly singular in some way usefull toward peace? gabish?

Speaking of devine guidence. Hey Matty, What do you think of your thread now?:)

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 11:53
I feel few if any "spiritual" people would kill another in support of there beliefs. I find it "funny" however, how many "religious" people would not hesitate to kill others in the name god.

hopefulhiker
02-21-2009, 11:57
Back to the original topic.. Stealth camping would seem to have military applications.. Sometimes I have walked right by a hammocker in a hammock and have missed them being there.. Only when I turned around to look back at something else did I realize they were there...

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 12:00
There's a church in Shady Valley that actually revised the 10 commandments. Thou shall not kill is now thou shall not kill without cause. Wonder how god feels about their editing.

superman
02-21-2009, 12:01
I feel few if any "spiritual" people would kill another in support of there beliefs. I find it "funny" however, how many "religious" people would not hesitate to kill others in the name god.

the craziest SOB I ever met was a guy who graduated from one of those southern religious schools (super thumpers are us). I'm surpised he didn't get whip lash from throwing his head down to pray before eating. He was always qouting the bible about stupid ****. He went to Vietnam to kill for jesus. I have no idea what ever happened to him but I was glad when I didn't have to listen to his BS. Every single thumper I ever met was whacked in the head or should have been.

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 12:04
Sorry. Did not know we are back on topic. Thru hiking would help with the physical aspects of the military and perhaps a little with the psychological aspect, but I don't think thru-hiking would make anyone a prime candidate for the special forces. Can we go back to talking religion now?

bikerscars
02-21-2009, 12:07
Sorry. Did not know we are back on topic. Thru hiking would help with the physical aspects of the military and perhaps a little with the psychological aspect, but I don't think thru-hiking would make anyone a prime candidate for the special forces. Can we go back to talking religion now?

the opiate of the masses
eh...whatever gets ya thru the day
hyoh

OutdoorsMan
02-21-2009, 12:12
Interesting post, but I wonder why SGT ROCK hasn't responded? I agree that most hikers are not compatible with military service BUT most do have a lot to contribute to our nation in other ways.
Eight and 1/2 years as a grunt (infantry) in the USMC.

Pedaling Fool
02-21-2009, 12:13
So rockhound, curious, how did you become a spiritual person? Do you discount many of the stories in the bible and adopt your own beliefs or do you adopt the biblical version, but just hate the "institution"?

ed bell
02-21-2009, 12:15
Matty,
Couldn't you have just, maybe....I don't know...fried up a big old skillet of bacon yesterday morning instead of starting this thread. You would have been sittin' fat and happy, and me and Bearpaw wouldn't have to be paying attention to this thread.:cool:

Tinker
02-21-2009, 12:25
Whats so funny about that? Religion is a tool used to control the masses where as spirituality reflects ones personal relationship with god, the universe,nature, etc....

"Spirituality" to many, is a way to say "I have the answers, I make my own truth, and I don't have to follow or please anyone but myself" (and, if I get to define good and evil, no one has the right to question my decisions and actions). It, just like religion, can be a mask for ego.
When you get to define who your enemy is, then dehumanize them so that you feel justified in disposing of them, you become just like your enemies. Only the label has changed.
All Americans are enemies of radical Islam, not because all Americans choose it to be so, but because they say so. It works the same in reverse.
To me, EGO stands for
Easing
God
Out
No one has the corner on truth. We only have opinions. These are mine.

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 12:27
So rockhound, curious, how did you become a spiritual person? Do you discount many of the stories in the bible and adopt your own beliefs or do you adopt the biblical version, but just hate the "institution"?
I came to the realization that we are all just sparks of light and consciousness cast off from the universal consciousness and put in these human forms in an attempt at self examination. When we die our "spirit" or life spark is returned to this universal consciousness. Of course this all came to me during a bong session so take it for what it's worth.

Tinker
02-21-2009, 12:28
Interesting post, but I wonder why SGT ROCK hasn't responded? I agree that most hikers are not compatible with military service BUT most do have a lot to contribute to our nation in other ways.
Eight and 1/2 years as a grunt (infantry) in the USMC.

I agree completely. We can all make a social contribution regardless of our idealogical differences.

Pedaling Fool
02-21-2009, 12:34
You see...you're belief system is not far off from mine. I think we're higher beings that live in another plane of existence that use this existence as sort of a game. Sort of like a virtual reality game, but much better; so good we forget (while in this game) where we come from -- sort of how you can get lost in your own thoughts here. When we go back to the other plane of existence we make fun of each other for how we acted in our little game.

Lone Wolf
02-21-2009, 12:35
oh for crissake :rolleyes:

Tinker
02-21-2009, 12:42
A lot of people have been hurt (or let down) by other people. One can either blame the individuals responsible or the organization. All organizations are made of people - some good, some bad. I could say that I don't care for organized religion, but I can't say that every individual in organized religion is wrong or evil.
There are similar shared values, for sure, but not every one is the same.
Regardless of our socio-political (or religious) leanings, we all are individuals.
Sheep don't need to be religious.

Tinker
02-21-2009, 12:43
oh for crissake :rolleyes:

Oh, come on! You're enjoying the heck out of this, admit it.:D

Pedaling Fool
02-21-2009, 12:44
oh for crissake :rolleyes:
What's the matter you don't like my theory.

Tinker
02-21-2009, 13:00
[quote=rockhound;785126]I feel few if any "spiritual" people would kill another in support of there beliefs. I find it "funny" however, how many "religious" people would not hesitate to kill others in the name god.[quote]

I don't find it "funny", I find it rather pathetic. If this is what you mean, we agree.
Btw, It's "their", not there. I didn't invent the language.
I can't believe that any rational person would kill another human being. Judaism and Islam, from their scriptures, both have records of killing in the name of God. Jesus was a pacifist. He would not want anyone killing in his name. Most people don't read his words, they just listen to others who say they have, or read selectively.

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 13:03
OK. Here is a serious post from Rockhound. I know enough to know that I don't truly know anything. I just try to live and let live. I try to help others when I can and at least refrain from hurting others when I can't. If someone says they have all the answers or "the" answer I tend to be skeptical.

Lone Wolf
02-21-2009, 13:03
i would kill in the name of Chesty Puller

Tinker
02-21-2009, 13:04
It's been fun, this is where I get off! :)
I have to pack for a hike, of all things! :p

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 13:06
[quote=rockhound;785126]I feel few if any "spiritual" people would kill another in support of there beliefs. I find it "funny" however, how many "religious" people would not hesitate to kill others in the name god.[quote]

I don't find it "funny", I find it rather pathetic. If this is what you mean, we agree.
Btw, It's "their", not there. I didn't invent the language.
I can't believe that any rational person would kill another human being. Judaism and Islam, from their scriptures, both have records of killing in the name of God. Jesus was a pacifist. He would not want anyone killing in his name. Most people don't read his words, they just listen to others who say they have, or read selectively. It'z Mattys' thred. Speling corecshuns ar not nesisary or disired.

Tinker
02-21-2009, 13:06
i would kill in the name of Chesty Puller
Who? And, again, you jest!:rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
02-21-2009, 13:07
Who? And, again, you jest!:rolleyes:

obviously you ain't a Marine

hopefulhiker
02-21-2009, 13:07
I watched this program on snipers.. They have to hang out in one spot for days.. I have seen thru hikers do this...

Tinker
02-21-2009, 13:08
[quote=Tinker;785160][quote=rockhound;785126]I feel few if any "spiritual" people would kill another in support of there beliefs. I find it "funny" however, how many "religious" people would not hesitate to kill others in the name god. It'z Mattys' thred. Speling corecshuns ar not nesisary or disired.
'Tain't spellin' 'tis grammer.;) (or both).

Bearpaw
02-21-2009, 13:08
I can't believe that any rational person would kill another human being.

I can't believe any rational person would rule out killing, even in defense of family or self.

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 13:10
This thread is screwed up. That aint my post.

Ekul
02-21-2009, 13:10
I can't believe any rational person would rule out killing, even in defense of family or self.

Second that!

Bearpaw
02-21-2009, 13:10
I watched this program on snipers.. They have to hang out in one spot for days.. I have seen thru hikers do this...

Now THAT's funny! (And true on both counts...)

Bearpaw
02-21-2009, 13:12
This thread is screwed up. That aint my post.

Good catch. Fixed it.

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 13:13
It's not about the heroes. It's about the zeroes.

Bearpaw
02-21-2009, 13:13
i would kill in the name of Chesty Puller

Semper Fi

Vibe
02-21-2009, 13:15
There's a church in Shady Valley that actually revised the 10 commandments. Thou shall not kill is now thou shall not kill without cause. Wonder how god feels about their editing.
Tell the truth this "revision" takes it back to being closer to the original meaning. It was a previous "revision" than took "Thou sjalt not commit murder" to "Thou shalt not kill".

Vibe
02-21-2009, 13:15
There's a church in Shady Valley that actually revised the 10 commandments. Thou shall not kill is now thou shall not kill without cause. Wonder how god feels about their editing.
Tell the truth this "revision" takes it back to being closer to the original meaning. It was a previous "revision" than took "Thou shalt not commit murder" to "Thou shalt not kill".

Lone Wolf
02-21-2009, 13:16
They have to hang out in one spot for days.. I have seen thru hikers do this...

but the hikers just lay around smokin' dope, drinkin' beer and complain about everything

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 13:17
Tell the truth this "revision" takes it back to being closer to the original meaning. It was a previous "revision" than took "Thou sjalt not commit murder" to "Thou shalt not kill".
Another reason I tend to be skeptical. Too much is left to interpretation.

Pedaling Fool
02-21-2009, 13:18
Who? And, again, you jest!:rolleyes:
http://navysite.de/ffg/FFG23.HTM

Ekul
02-21-2009, 13:19
Tried that smoking dope thang and hiking and it dont mix. Cough cough hack hack.

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 13:19
Well It's Saturday and I have to go to temple now. See ya all in a while.

Lugnut
02-21-2009, 13:29
Thought you went yesterday? :D

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 15:06
Like wow man. I just had this awesome vision man. What if like the whole universe was like just a tiny cell on the fingernail of some greater being man. That would be like far out man. And like the Earth was an atom and like all us humans were like just protons and electrons in that atom. And like maybe space travel means like were leaving that cell but really it was like causing fingernail cancer in that greater being.Wow man. I think I just blew my mind. I need a nap.

Vibe
02-21-2009, 15:09
Like wow man. I just had this awesome vision man. What if like the whole universe was like just a tiny cell on the fingernail of some greater being man. That would be like far out man. And like the Earth was an atom and like all us humans were like just protons and electrons in that atom. And like maybe space travel means like were leaving that cell but really it was like causing fingernail cancer in that greater being.Wow man. I think I just blew my mind. I need a nap.
Just back away from the little purple capped mushrooms. :D

Mal the Elder
02-21-2009, 15:47
There's a church in Shady Valley that actually revised the 10 commandments. Thou shall not kill is now thou shall not kill without cause. Wonder how god feels about their editing.
I wonder how that god feels about old King James having the original wording changed to "Thou shalt not kill." In the original (Aramaic) texts it is "You shall not murder." That's a big difference. That Shady Valley church is pretty much the same meaning as the original, so I reckon their god is OK with it. What can I say, bro? . . . .

Mal the Elder
02-21-2009, 15:49
Bugger . . . I should have read the whole thread. Oh well . . . . :D

Nightwalker
02-21-2009, 16:06
Actually, not. Enjoy your fantasies, Lone Wolf. :D

You're easily knocked off center. That's one of your charming points.

Rockhound
02-21-2009, 16:12
I wonder how that god feels about old King James having the original wording changed to "Thou shalt not kill." In the original (Aramaic) texts it is "You shall not murder." That's a big difference. That Shady Valley church is pretty much the same meaning as the original, so I reckon their god is OK with it. What can I say, bro? . . . .
Thank you Mal & Vibe for your posts. I guess I'll refrain from calling them hypocrites. You have enlightened me.

Tinker
02-21-2009, 16:26
I wonder how that god feels about old King James having the original wording changed to "Thou shalt not kill." In the original (Aramaic) texts it is "You shall not murder." That's a big difference. That Shady Valley church is pretty much the same meaning as the original, so I reckon their god is OK with it. What can I say, bro? . . . .
The Aramaic is well known among most clergy but most keep tight lipped about it.

TJ aka Teej
02-21-2009, 16:27
This thread needs to become relevant to the Appalachian Trail.

ed bell
02-21-2009, 17:59
This thread needs to become relevant to the Appalachian Trail.
I don't see that happening. Now, should it be locked or moved?:-?:confused:

saimyoji
02-21-2009, 20:39
i watched band of brothers for the ??? time the other day....i'd bet every one of those guys could through hike easy.

pun intended.

Gray Blazer
02-21-2009, 21:56
I don't respond to moonstones threads.

prain4u
02-21-2009, 23:02
I think we should take the leaders of any two warring states and put them in a locked room without weapons and see how it turns out.

Heck, forget the locked room, just MAKE them do an entire thru hike together. In the 4-7 months that they spent together on the trail, one of two things would happen:

1: They would find a way to work out their differences.

OR

2. One of the two leaders would probably have a terrible "accident" while on the trail and "disappear".

Either way--the problem would be solved.

camojack
02-22-2009, 01:21
21 February 2009

About 10 years ago, I read a PhD. dissertation by Army psychologist Major Jeffrey Stolrow. The selection and training of special operations soldiers is difficult and expensive. Probably at no time do we have enough special operations forces in uniform, and Dr. Stolrow's study was part of an effort to more efficiently identify recruits with a high probability to complete selection courses. Ideally, 100% of those who pass screening would become special operations soldiers, but the failure rates continue to remain high. I recall Dr. Stolrow explaining over the phone that there seemed to chemical markers in the blood that could indicate higher potential for success during selection, and that these markers were related to stress and the ability to stay calm or quickly bounce back after high-stress situations.

But ultimately it would seem that selection is as much art as science. The Special Forces soldiers I have known tend to be nothing like what is portrayed in the movies. Typically, even other Special Forces, and special operations soldiers, would have difficulty picking their own brethren out of a crowd. They almost never "look the part."

Please see "Ultimate Stress Test: Special Forces Training (http://www.newsweek.com/id/184156)."

--
Very Respectfully,

Michael Yon

mweinstone
02-22-2009, 06:24
my dd214 has an award for good conduct period listed on it. i belive its cause i helped my staff sargent to bed drunk one night on guard duty. if i was still in the marines and fighting in a war, i would be useing my appalachian trail skill sets each and every minute to stay motovated. and metaclorians are important to be a real good jedi hiker soldier opps head.i never helped fight more than mailing boots around and shineing generals cars but would say yes in a flat minute to some new special hikeing opps branch trainning. dear lord, i do so want to be james bond rambonater. it sucks being a woosy. but its all i got.

TOW
02-22-2009, 07:08
I retract my previous statement. Killing any living creature is wrong and just asking for bad kharma. We should all live in peace and harmony with one another. If anyone feels the need to act out in violence, they should meditate or do some primal screaming therapy until that feeling passes. Meat is murder. Free Tibet.
Right.......uhuh............yep..............sure. ..........:rolleyes:

TOW
02-22-2009, 07:17
OK. Here is a serious post from Rockhound. I know enough to know that I don't truly know anything. I just try to live and let live. I try to help others when I can and at least refrain from hurting others when I can't. If someone says they have all the answers or "the" answer I tend to be skeptical.
I have the answer, just ask me! LW thinks I am weird though, but I know one thing that being weird is part of the answer!

Lone Wolf
02-22-2009, 07:21
I have the answer, just ask me! LW thinks I am weird though, but I know one thing that being weird is part of the answer!

yup. you are. taking in hikers who aren't needy is weird :cool:

TOW
02-22-2009, 07:28
yup. you are. taking in hikers who aren't needy is weird :cool:
Yeah and that particular hiker that you are referring to has more than paid his way.............:cool:

But I am guilty of aiding the needy ones too.............and for that I am proud to be weird!

Lone Wolf
02-22-2009, 07:30
ain't no needy hikers. they make a CHOICE to walk

TOW
02-22-2009, 07:37
ain't no needy hikers. they make a CHOICE to walk
I will not argue with you here, this thread has been a good one and I am not going to ruin it with you on an argument that is not going to go anywhere..........You want to argue, we can hash it out on Rock's place......

Lone Wolf
02-22-2009, 07:39
this thread was stupid from the start :)

superman
02-22-2009, 10:38
Heck, forget the locked room, just MAKE them do an entire thru hike together. In the 4-7 months that they spent together on the trail, one of two things would happen:

1: They would find a way to work out their differences.

OR

2. One of the two leaders would probably have a terrible "accident" while on the trail and "disappear".

Either way--the problem would be solved.

That's crazy...then what would you have...peace? :)

superman
02-22-2009, 11:00
21 February 2009

About 10 years ago, I read a PhD. dissertation by Army psychologist Major Jeffrey Stolrow. The selection and training of special operations soldiers is difficult and expensive. Probably at no time do we have enough special operations forces in uniform, and Dr. Stolrow's study was part of an effort to more efficiently identify recruits with a high probability to complete selection courses. Ideally, 100% of those who pass screening would become special operations soldiers, but the failure rates continue to remain high. I recall Dr. Stolrow explaining over the phone that there seemed to chemical markers in the blood that could indicate higher potential for success during selection, and that these markers were related to stress and the ability to stay calm or quickly bounce back after high-stress situations.

But ultimately it would seem that selection is as much art as science. The Special Forces soldiers I have known tend to be nothing like what is portrayed in the movies. Typically, even other Special Forces, and special operations soldiers, would have difficulty picking their own brethren out of a crowd. They almost never "look the part."

Please see "Ultimate Stress Test: Special Forces Training (http://www.newsweek.com/id/184156)."

--
Very Respectfully,

Michael Yon

Nice article but it doesn't say anything about looking for experienced thru hikers for special operations. Maybe it was an over site?:D

superman
02-22-2009, 11:07
my dd214 has an award for good conduct period listed on it. i belive its cause i helped my staff sargent to bed drunk one night on guard duty. if i was still in the marines and fighting in a war, i would be useing my appalachian trail skill sets each and every minute to stay motovated. and metaclorians are important to be a real good jedi hiker soldier opps head.i never helped fight more than mailing boots around and shineing generals cars but would say yes in a flat minute to some new special hikeing opps branch trainning. dear lord, i do so want to be james bond rambonater. it sucks being a woosy. but its all i got.

LMAO, the scary part is I think I understood what you wrote.:)

Pedaling Fool
02-22-2009, 11:10
No one is awarded a good conduct. They just give it to you if you're not caught:D

TrippinBTM
02-22-2009, 13:20
Good question (assuming "any help" means "no draft"); my take

Wins/No Draft:

(1) Revolutionary War



There was conscription in the Revolutionary War, but it was done by the states, not the central government, since there was hardly one of those.

By the way, you left out Afghanistan. I have a feeling both that and Iraq will end up as draws, mostly because the people there don't support us; as soon as we leave, even if they've been "compliant" they will take things their own way. This is probably especially true of Afghanistan.

Anyways, I'm a thru-hiker and have no place in the military. I'd never even serve in a non-combatant role, should a draft come up. I want nothing to do with the slaughter of young men and women who happen to be on the wrong side of a line drawn by governments, to say nothing of the "collateral damage" of innocent civilians. This is true for me unless it was clear that the cause was necessary and just, as I feel WWII was, for example.

So clearly, being able to walk doesn't mean I'd be a great special ops troop.

Rockhound
02-22-2009, 13:33
Who says were leaving? Ever? We are still in Korea(DMZ) we are still in Germany. We now have 14 permanent bases Iraq. Face it. We aint going anywhere. We will use Iraq to maintain our presence over there for our lifetimes and beyond. We may scale down but we are never leaving.

TrippinBTM
02-22-2009, 13:43
Well I'll tell you what, the next time some group decides to blow something up in NYC they might decide to take down the whole damn village and we have stirred up a hornets nest over in the mideast enough so that it is festering and we are going to need a bigger army than we got to confront it if it ever goes there.



Maybe. I support that use of war: defending our homes from attack. Militias are alright by me. If they bring the fight here, fine. I'd even be willing to pick up a gun and do the work myself.

But wouldn't it be nice if our Defense Department were about defense, instead of offense? At least in our recent conflicts (Vietnam, or even Korea, forward) it seems like we've been much more interested in offense. This is not a good foreign policy, to stir up the hornet's nests in all these foreign countries only tangentally important to our safety, mainly because we've extended ourselves around the globe in the first place. I won't pick up a gun to fight for oil, or for political power, or economic control.

So, maybe we don't need a bigger army for keeping all these people in their place... maybe we need to stop stirring up the hornet's nests in the first place?

TrippinBTM
02-22-2009, 13:44
"Spirituality" to many, is a way to say "I have the answers, I make my own truth, and I don't have to follow or please anyone but myself" (and, if I get to define good and evil, no one has the right to question my decisions and actions). It, just like religion, can be a mask for ego.


Anything can be used as a mask for ego. Giving to the poor can be a huge ego trip. A local church asking for donations for building projects is setting up a wall with stones for all the donors, each stone with a name or family on it. Donate more, get a nicer stone.

"Spiritual" is what rockhound said, it's a personal relationship with the divine. It can be used wrongly. So can religion (the group celebration of that relationship). That just shows ego is bad, not spirituality OR religion.

TrippinBTM
02-22-2009, 13:49
Who says were leaving? Ever? We are still in Korea(DMZ) we are still in Germany. We now have 14 permanent bases Iraq. Face it. We aint going anywhere. We will use Iraq to maintain our presence over there for our lifetimes and beyond. We may scale down but we are never leaving.

And that's the problem I have with how our military is used. Offense and expansion, instead of defense. It's wrong.

TOW
02-22-2009, 15:42
So, maybe we don't need a bigger army for keeping all these people in their place... maybe we need to stop stirring up the hornet's nests in the first place?
with that i agree.........

Montana AT05
02-22-2009, 16:04
I didn't read though all posts here, but the original idea is pretty darn funny.

Umm.

A thru-hiker is 90% of the time a die-hard Liberal. I am always surrounded, but I don't worry, they don't believe in the right to bear arms.

I am pretty sure US Special Forces isn't the place for a crowd of sweat-smelling wippies.*

I can see it now, somewhere in Afghanistan:

Spec Op: "Sir, I spotted a force of 15 Taliban headed down the path towards our observation post, they look ready to attack"

Thru-Hiker: "Doooood! What? Oh man, you got any pot? I like, totally smoked all mine already. Bummer man. Hey, did you know that 9/11 was an inside job? Yaaaaa...totally man. Like steel doesn't melt, dood. Seriously. It's steel man! Like, that Superdood, whatz his name? Oh ya, Superman. He was the man of steel and he couldn't burn. Hey, dood, speakin of burnin', you got any pot? I smoked all mine already."

Flame away on that one guys, nothing like sweeping generalizations to stir the "pot".

Oh!! Zing! Ha ha ha~

:banana

Lone Wolf
02-22-2009, 16:10
I didn't read though all posts here, but the original idea is pretty darn funny.

Umm.

A thru-hiker is 90% of the time a die-hard Liberal. I am always surrounded, but I don't worry, they don't believe in the right to bear arms.

I am pretty sure US Special Forces isn't the place for a crowd of sweat-smelling wippies.*

I can see it now, somewhere in Afghanistan:

Spec Op: "Sir, I spotted a force of 15 Taliban headed down the path towards our observation post, they look ready to attack"

Thru-Hiker: "Doooood! What? Oh man, you got any pot? I like, totally smoked all mine already. Bummer man. Hey, did you know that 9/11 was an inside job? Yaaaaa...totally man. Like steel doesn't melt, dood. Seriously. It's steel man! Like, that Superdood, whatz his name? Oh ya, Superman. He was the man of steel and he couldn't burn. Hey, dood, speakin of burnin', you got any pot? I smoked all mine already."

Flame away on that one guys, nothing like sweeping generalizations to stir the "pot".

Oh!! Zing! Ha ha ha~

:banana

that's funny right there :D your percentage is off though. more like 98%

SteveJ
02-22-2009, 19:14
Do significant others get to chant this, too? I'm never quite sure of the rules.

chuckle...my son (a plebe at West Point) has pointedly told me to NEVER use the term HOOAH with him or in his presence!

zoidfu
02-22-2009, 19:20
A thru-hiker is 90% of the time a die-hard Liberal. I am always surrounded, but I don't worry, they don't believe in the right to bear arms.

False

take-a-knee
02-22-2009, 19:27
I didn't read though all posts here, but the original idea is pretty darn funny.

Umm.

A thru-hiker is 90% of the time a die-hard Liberal. I am always surrounded, but I don't worry, they don't believe in the right to bear arms.

I am pretty sure US Special Forces isn't the place for a crowd of sweat-smelling wippies.*

I can see it now, somewhere in Afghanistan:

Spec Op: "Sir, I spotted a force of 15 Taliban headed down the path towards our observation post, they look ready to attack"

Thru-Hiker: "Doooood! What? Oh man, you got any pot? I like, totally smoked all mine already. Bummer man. Hey, did you know that 9/11 was an inside job? Yaaaaa...totally man. Like steel doesn't melt, dood. Seriously. It's steel man! Like, that Superdood, whatz his name? Oh ya, Superman. He was the man of steel and he couldn't burn. Hey, dood, speakin of burnin', you got any pot? I smoked all mine already."

Flame away on that one guys, nothing like sweeping generalizations to stir the "pot".

Oh!! Zing! Ha ha ha~

:banana

That is/was an accurate observation, in a typical SF company of 84 men there will be 2-3 token liberals, and maybe a couple of the officers who are in the closet. With the marxist takeover of the public school system, those numbers will erode over time, and when it happens you'll have your storm troopers, all trained and ready to go.

superman
02-22-2009, 19:46
That is/was an accurate observation, in a typical SF company of 84 men there will be 2-3 token liberals, and maybe a couple of the officers who are in the closet. With the marxist takeover of the public school system, those numbers will erode over time, and when it happens you'll have your storm troopers, all trained and ready to go.

But how many of the 84 men and officers will have thru hiked?:)

Blue Jay
02-22-2009, 20:13
So, maybe we don't need a bigger army for keeping all these people in their place... maybe we need to stop stirring up the hornet's nests in the first place?

We adore getting stung. Just realisticaly look at the way we operate from individual to national levels. Almost always in direct opposite to our own self interest. Clearly we adore getting the rake in the face over and over. Always looking for a new hornet's nest to poke so we can act surprised.

yappy
02-23-2009, 13:11
I knew a few " liberals " up here that could agree with the right to bare arms, don't say dudddddddee and frankly would run circles around you in wilderness survival.

The Weasel
02-23-2009, 13:20
There was conscription in the Revolutionary War, but it was done by the states, not the central government, since there was hardly one of those.

By the way, you left out Afghanistan. I have a feeling both that and Iraq will end up as draws, mostly because the people there don't support us; as soon as we leave, even if they've been "compliant" they will take things their own way. This is probably especially true of Afghanistan.

Anyways, I'm a thru-hiker and have no place in the military. I'd never even serve in a non-combatant role, should a draft come up. I want nothing to do with the slaughter of young men and women who happen to be on the wrong side of a line drawn by governments, to say nothing of the "collateral damage" of innocent civilians. This is true for me unless it was clear that the cause was necessary and just, as I feel WWII was, for example.

So clearly, being able to walk doesn't mean I'd be a great special ops troop.

You're right, on both counts, but I left out (I think I mentioned part of this) state conscription since the concept of the "militia" historically was that every man was responsible for defense, and this is what evolved into the National Guard. Since it wasn't national conscription, I don't include it, but you can, no problem. As for Afghanistan, it's a work-in-progress still, so I didn't include it. Iraq is (I think I said this) largely (I pray!) in the end-game.

As for 'just wars', well, some of us think that Iraq (both times), Afghanistan, and, yes, Vietnam were "just wars" that were just totally FUBAR thanks to a wondrous combination of inept military leadership and stupid political leadership. But that's another topic for elsewhere.

TW

Wolf - 23000
02-23-2009, 15:21
Most hikers are entirely too liberal for spec. ops
They would end up feeding, clothing and supporting the enemy.... and eventually persuade the enemy to run for public office.

Slimer,
Do tell what qualification you have? I have done my thru-hikes, AT * 4 times, the PCT *3, LT * 5, etc. all before joining the US Army 10 years ago now.
I’m serving my country. I’m currently in Iraq right now. What are you doing? To provide support to the enemy is something called a traitor’s act. Maybe you would feed, clothing, and provide support for the enemy – people that go target families, kids for their cause. If that is where your morals lies, you need help. Some of us that are serving take what we are doing very serious, and will do what we have to.
Wolf
P.S. I’m sorry to post such a negative. I just really wanted to say hello to everyone but that just piss me off.

take-a-knee
02-23-2009, 16:04
Slimer,
Do tell what qualification you have? I have done my thru-hikes, AT * 4 times, the PCT *3, LT * 5, etc. all before joining the US Army 10 years ago now.
I’m serving my country. I’m currently in Iraq right now. What are you doing? To provide support to the enemy is something called a traitor’s act. Maybe you would feed, clothing, and provide support for the enemy – people that go target families, kids for their cause. If that is where your morals lies, you need help. Some of us that are serving take what we are doing very serious, and will do what we have to.
Wolf
P.S. I’m sorry to post such a negative. I just really wanted to say hello to everyone but that just piss me off.

Well Wolf, you obviously have much better internet access and more free time than I did when I was in Iraq. I think Slimer said what he said tongue-in-cheek, nevertheless there is truth to what he said, It sure as hell applies to virtually every Department of State employee over there, and LOTS of the officers, the higher the rank, the larger the percentage. To wit, Admiral McMullen's (?) op-ed in the Wall Street Journal awhile back. So, if it doesn't apply to you then don't take umbrage. Oh, and stay alert, stay alive, and thank you for your service.

dloome
02-23-2009, 17:06
Huh, in what way do you think going for a hike would qualify you to be a trainy for spec.ops or anything else in the military?

DING DING DING! WINNER!

There's many people who've thru-hiked the AT and have precious little real backcountry skill and experience. The AT is not an especially demanding trail in any sense and requires little to no real skill or competency to complete.

Then, there's more obvious issues: I'd wager that most people who enjoy going for long walks in the woods on their own dollar and at their own pace would probably not be ideal candidates for trained killers. You know, different set of values there, maybe.

Lone Wolf
02-23-2009, 17:13
The AT is not an especially demanding trail in any sense and requires little to no real skill or competency to complete.


damn! i've always thought that too. just walkin', right?

The Weasel
02-23-2009, 17:25
DING DING DING! WINNER!

There's many people who've thru-hiked the AT and have precious little real backcountry skill and experience. The AT is not an especially demanding trail in any sense and requires little to no real skill or competency to complete.

Then, there's more obvious issues: I'd wager that most people who enjoy going for long walks in the woods on their own dollar and at their own pace would probably not be ideal candidates for trained killers. You know, different set of values there, maybe.

While not particularly germane to the topic, and while I might agree with you about the dissimilarity in skill sets of hikers and special operations soldiers, I think I can safely say there are few, if any, who would appreciate being referred to as "trained killers." There is a difference between being trained in ways to kill others (which, by the way, is a comparatively small part of special operations training) and being a trained killer.

TW

Lone Wolf
02-23-2009, 17:27
I think I can safely say there are few, if any, who would appreciate being referred to as "trained killers." There is a difference between being trained in ways to kill others (which, by the way, is a comparatively small part of special operations training) and being a trained killer.


you weren't in the military. stick to stuff you know about

Lone Wolf
02-23-2009, 17:32
GySgt Carlos Hathcock was trained to kill. he did it 93 times, confirmed. a Marine and his rifle are a deadly weapon.
Semper Fi Gunny. OOHRAH!!!

The Weasel
02-23-2009, 17:34
you weren't in the military. stick to stuff you know about

I do.

TW

Lone Wolf
02-23-2009, 17:35
I do.

TW

sure russy :rolleyes:

Bulldawg
02-23-2009, 17:36
As for 'just wars', well, some of us think that Iraq (both times), Afghanistan, and, yes, Vietnam were "just wars" that were just totally FUBAR thanks to a wondrous combination of inept military leadership and stupid political leadership. But that's another topic for elsewhere.

TW

If it's another topic for elsewhere, why even bring it up here? Trolling perhaps?:eek::eek:

The Weasel
02-23-2009, 17:49
GSGT Carlos Hathcock and GSGT John Basilone were Marines trained in how to kill, and did so, with great honor. They were not "trained killers." I'll reserve that offensive term for people such as Lee Oswald and Charles Whitman who, while also Marines, have no right to any honor. Others can, and will, use the term as they wish.

Yes, either way, LW is very right: "A Marine and his (or her) rifle is a deadly weapon." Properly used, it will protect us. Used by a killer, it is contemptible. .

TW


TW

Lone Wolf
02-23-2009, 17:51
Oy! :rolleyes:

Bearpaw
02-23-2009, 17:53
I don't know of a single Marine worth his salt who would object to being called a trained killer.

Lone Wolf
02-23-2009, 17:55
I don't know of a single Marine worth his salt who would object to being called a trained killer.

weasy thinks so and he's just a Marinesniffer

The Weasel
02-23-2009, 18:02
I don't know of a single Marine worth his salt who would object to being called a trained killer.

Perhaps you don't know all of them.

And, perhaps, my original point remains true: Someone who is not a special operations soldier (and not all, or even many, Marines are such) has no right to refer to such men as "trained killers".

TW

Hooch
02-23-2009, 18:02
GSGT Carlos Hathcock and GSGT John Basilone were Marines trained in how to kill.......Not to be overly technical there Weasy, but properly abbrviated, that's GYSGT, short for Gunnery Sergeant.

Lone Wolf
02-23-2009, 18:04
not To Be Overly Technical There Weasy, But Properly Abbrviated, That's Gysgt, Short For Gunnery Sergeant.

:d.......

Hooch
02-23-2009, 18:04
Yes, either way, LW is very right: "A Marine and his (or her) rifle is a deadly weapon." Properly used, it will protect us. Used by a killer, it is contemptible.A killer and a murderer are two entirely different things.

The Weasel
02-23-2009, 18:10
Not to be overly technical there Weasy, but properly abbrviated, that's GYSGT, short for Gunnery Sergeant.

Thanks. Both were incorrect; I appreciate the correction.

TW

Bulldawg
02-23-2009, 18:11
A killer and a murderer are two entirely different things.

Exactly!!

Montana AT05
02-23-2009, 18:13
I still think this whole idea is funny.

Special Forces groups should prepare a list of what they do or have:

1. We do not supply Vegan Verified MREs
2. We kill people if we have to
3. You can't mail some of your equipment "up trail"
4. If you get lost, you will probably die. For realsies.
5. If you start talking about your Spirit Animal, our Machine Gunner, who is a REAL native America, might misfire during an engagement. In your general direction Mr Dances With Wolves.
6. We decide when you get off trail for a Zero.
7. No, there are no payphones in your zone of operation that you can be used to send pocketmail.
8. What? Shelters? By that I assume you mean bomb shelters? No we generally don't have those every night.
9. You want a WHAT? A "certificate of completion?" A "2000 miler bagde"? ***?
10. NO. Absolutely NOT. You cannot post a day-by-day blow of your service to Trail Journals.com

Rockhound
02-23-2009, 18:36
Perhaps you don't know all of them.

And, perhaps, my original point remains true: Someone who is not a special operations soldier (and not all, or even many, Marines are such) has no right to refer to such men as "trained killers".

TW
Is that kinda like no one has the right to refer to you as Weasy?

Rockhound
02-23-2009, 18:40
Correct me if I'm wrong but part of special ops training is to learn how to kill with a variety of weapons or even none at all. By defenition would that not make them trained killers?

The Weasel
02-23-2009, 18:42
Correct me if I'm wrong but part of special ops training is to learn how to kill with a variety of weapons or even none at all. By defenition would that not make them trained killers?

Police are trained in similar ways; they aren't "trained killers" either.

TW

Rockhound
02-23-2009, 18:45
Police are trained to disarm, disable and apprehend suspects and only kill as a last resort. Special ops are trained to kill. You know not of what you speak Weasy.

Lone Wolf
02-23-2009, 18:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmlXlddi06k&feature=related

Rockhound
02-23-2009, 18:51
I was an Airborne MP at Ft Bragg. I knew a couple black hats and they would have no problem being called trained killers

The Weasel
02-23-2009, 18:55
Correct me if I'm wrong but part of special ops training is to learn how to kill with a variety of weapons or even none at all. By defenition would that not make them trained killers?


Police are trained to disarm, disable and apprehend suspects and only kill as a last resort. Special ops are trained to kill. You know not of what you speak Weasy.

Well, RH, let's just say you're not very careful with your words, so who knows what you mean. But that's OK. You probably think that the purpose of training soldiers how to kill is for them to go out and kill people. It's not.

But enjoy your day, and I'm glad, however badly you phrase it, you respect our military and realize that - said more eloquently by the special operations member above (forgive me for not recalling your name) just because someone is any good at backpacking is little basis for thinking they would be worth anything in the military, much less special forces.

TW

Rockhound
02-23-2009, 18:57
And what branch did you serve in again?

Sly
02-23-2009, 19:01
And what branch did you serve in again?

The olive branch? :p

Rockhound
02-23-2009, 19:06
Maybe for target practice they should use little duckies and pinwheels instead of human shaped targets

randyg45
02-24-2009, 09:04
If a thru hiker wanted to joining the military, SOCOM or otherwise, I their experience would probably be an asset. I don't know of any recently on the froggy side of things that have thru-hiked before joining, but that certainly doesn't rule it out-and it wouldn't be surprising. The recruiters would love to talk to them-it shows some level of physical fitness and a dedication to carrying out a goal.

As I understand it, Delta, specifically, has put (and probably still does) their volunteers thru some pretty extreme tests designed to measure exactly that- they want an almost fanatical determination to complete the mission.

superman
02-24-2009, 09:13
I'm aware of one thru hiker dying in Iraq. There may be more?

warraghiyagey
02-24-2009, 09:16
But enjoy your day, and I'm glad, however badly you phrase it, you respect our military and realize that - said more eloquently by the special operations member above (forgive me for not recalling your name) just because someone is any good at backpacking is little basis for thinking they would be worth anything in the military, much less special forces.

TW
Interesting phrase to be found in such a grammatically butchered run-on sentence.

randyg45
02-24-2009, 09:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by jersey joe http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=784324#post784324)
I'd bet that the majority of military folks couldn't complete a thru hike.


Well, my reasoning is that if the normal completion rate is estimated at around 1 in 8 or 10 for folks that actually have a desire to complete a thru hike, then I really don't see why the rate of completion for military folks would be better than 1 in 2.

Your mistake is in assuming that civilians and soldiers/veterans share the same degree of mental and physical toughness.

They do not.

buff_jeff
02-24-2009, 09:31
Your mistake is in assuming that civilians and soldiers/veterans share the same degree of mental and physical toughness.

They do not.

Oh, stop glorifying the military. There are plenty of civilians who are tougher than people in the military. I've met more than enough lazy people in the Army. Besides, they were civilians before they got in....

People in the military do an oftentimes dirty, tough, and difficult job under adverse conditions, but I've found, in my short experience so far with the Army, that everything is taken care of for you. You're told when to eat; where to sleep; where to eat; when to take a piss; where to shoot, etc. You're also always surrounded by dozens of other people. You become a part of a very close-knit community, whereas thru-hiking, or long-distance hiking involves a lot of figuring stuff out on your own, all by yourself. Mentally, this is a whole different dimension.

I take each person as they come, really. I don't automatically assume someone is some sort of hardass just because they were in the military. I also don't assume the same thing for a thru-hiker. This thread is really just ridiculous to being with. Being in the military doesn't mean you will enjoy or succeed at thru-hiking. Some of my Dad's older friends who have served in the military often tell him that they don't like the outdoors because "they were forced to do it before," and that if my dad had been he wouldn't like it either. This seems like a cop out. By the same token, thru-hiking doesn't mean you will succeed in the team-oriented, mission-centric nature of the military.

Thread topic is non-sequitur.

warraghiyagey
02-24-2009, 09:33
Thread topic is non-sequitur.
Which makes it even more amusing to see the people that decide to get bent out of shape over any of it. . . :p

randyg45
02-24-2009, 09:34
[quote=rockhound;785126]Jesus was a pacifist.

Perhaps it depends on the definition of "pacifist", but He was physically violent on at least one occasion and on at least one other He spoke of a future need for violence, urging His followers to beat their plowshares into not one sword but two. I've also taken comfort from being unable to find anything disparaging towards soldiers....

buff_jeff
02-24-2009, 09:34
As I understand it, Delta, specifically, has put (and probably still does) their volunteers thru some pretty extreme tests designed to measure exactly that- they want an almost fanatical determination to complete the mission.

Yeah, and you can complete a thru-hike in abysmal shape, but you can't join Delta like that. You can complete a thru-hike, but easily fail any of the service's physical fitness exams. Just because you can hike, doesn't mean you can run, do pushups, situps, fire accurately, etc.

Once again, this thread is non-sequitur. It's totally absurd.

warraghiyagey
02-24-2009, 09:39
Yeah, and you can complete a thru-hike in abysmal shape, but you can't join Delta like that. You can complete a thru-hike, but easily fail any of the service's physical fitness exams. Just because you can hike, doesn't mean you can run, do pushups, situps, fire accurately, etc.

Once again, this thread is non-sequitur. It's totally absurd.


Which makes it even more amusing to see the people that decide to get bent out of shape over any of it. . . :p
Again. . . ;):D

buff_jeff
02-24-2009, 09:40
Again. . . ;):D

I know, I know. :o

Maybe I need some counseling. I have PTSD from being exposed to Whiteblaze to much. :D

warraghiyagey
02-24-2009, 09:42
I know, I know. :o

Maybe I need some counseling. I have PTSD from being exposed to Whiteblaze to much. :D
Addictions are tough. . . that's why I rarely post here. . . :o:p

Rockhound
02-24-2009, 09:45
[quote=Tinker;785160]

Perhaps it depends on the definition of "pacifist", but He was physically violent on at least one occasion and on at least one other He spoke of a future need for violence, urging His followers to beat their plowshares into not one sword but two. I've also taken comfort from being unable to find anything disparaging towards soldiers....
THAT WAS NOT MY POST!

Rockhound
02-24-2009, 09:47
second time on this thread that I was "given credit" for something I did not say.

randyg45
02-24-2009, 09:58
Perhaps you don't know all of them.

And, perhaps, my original point remains true: Someone who is not a special operations soldier (and not all, or even many, Marines are such) has no right to refer to such men as "trained killers".

TW

This trained killer takes no umbrage at all to the term. Of course, I was only a poor, run-of-the-mill paratrooper, so I may not qualify to comment as per your personal (civilian) rule....:sun

randyg45
02-24-2009, 10:10
Oh, stop glorifying the military. There are plenty of civilians who are tougher than people in the military. I've met more than enough lazy people in the Army. Besides, they were civilians before they got in....

People in the military do an oftentimes dirty, tough, and difficult job under adverse conditions, but I've found, in my short experience so far with the Army, that everything is taken care of for you. You're told when to eat; where to sleep; where to eat; when to take a piss; where to shoot, etc. You're also always surrounded by dozens of other people. You become a part of a very close-knit community, whereas thru-hiking, or long-distance hiking involves a lot of figuring stuff out on your own, all by yourself. Mentally, this is a whole different dimension.

I take each person as they come, really. I don't automatically assume someone is some sort of hardass just because they were in the military. I also don't assume the same thing for a thru-hiker. This thread is really just ridiculous to being with. Being in the military doesn't mean you will enjoy or succeed at thru-hiking. Some of my Dad's older friends who have served in the military often tell him that they don't like the outdoors because "they were forced to do it before," and that if my dad had been he wouldn't like it either. This seems like a cop out. By the same token, thru-hiking doesn't mean you will succeed in the team-oriented, mission-centric nature of the military.

Thread topic is non-sequitur.

Anytime a group is divided by a specific criterion the two resulting groups will differ along other criteria as well.

Separate from the general population those who watch 10 or more hours of daytime soap operas; the resultant group will have higher estrogen levels.
Separate PETAns and vegans, you get liberals.
Separate Nascar fans, you get conservatives.
Separate military, you get higher levels of fitness.

Lone Wolf
02-24-2009, 10:11
Oh, stop glorifying the military. There are plenty of civilians who are tougher than people in the military. I've met more than enough lazy people in the Army. Besides, they were civilians before they got in....

People in the military do an oftentimes dirty, tough, and difficult job under adverse conditions, but I've found, in my short experience so far with the Army, that everything is taken care of for you. You're told when to eat; where to sleep; where to eat; when to take a piss; where to shoot, etc. You're also always surrounded by dozens of other people. You become a part of a very close-knit community, whereas thru-hiking, or long-distance hiking involves a lot of figuring stuff out on your own, all by yourself. Mentally, this is a whole different dimension.

I take each person as they come, really. I don't automatically assume someone is some sort of hardass just because they were in the military. I also don't assume the same thing for a thru-hiker. This thread is really just ridiculous to being with. Being in the military doesn't mean you will enjoy or succeed at thru-hiking. Some of my Dad's older friends who have served in the military often tell him that they don't like the outdoors because "they were forced to do it before," and that if my dad had been he wouldn't like it either. This seems like a cop out. By the same token, thru-hiking doesn't mean you will succeed in the team-oriented, mission-centric nature of the military.

Thread topic is non-sequitur.
it rattled your cage, this thread :)

Hooch
02-24-2009, 10:11
And, perhaps, my original point remains true: Someone who is not a special operations soldier (and not all, or even many, Marines are such) has no right to refer to such men as "trained killers". You're dead wrong on that one, Weasy. We Marines have a saying; "Every Marine a Rifleman first.". Every single Marine is trained to kill. True enough, there are a very small percentage of Marines who are members of MARSOC, and therefore, members of SOCOM who are acutally trained and qualified as "special operations" Marines. But this, by absolutely no means whatsoever, is an indication that they are the only trained killers in the Marine Corps. It just isn't so. If you'd ever been there, you'd understand.

Rockhound
02-24-2009, 10:22
Perhaps you don't know all of them.

And, perhaps, my original point remains true: Someone who is not a special operations soldier (and not all, or even many, Marines are such) has no right to refer to such men as "trained killers".

TW
Actually that right is covered in our constitution somewhere. Oh yeah. there it is amendment #1. right on top. Freedom of speech. In fact one could say these soldiers are fighting for our right to call them trained killers.

Dances with Mice
02-24-2009, 10:43
....why dont millitarys look into the seriouse use of seasoned,in shape, hardened thruhikers as trainees for special opps.i understand fully that my friends like squarrel and other rangers and shine and green barets have way way way more skill sets but what about our skillsets? ... Well, there's the problem! All this arguing over a word mweinstone misspelled. I'm sure you people are embarrassed right now. Matt was just wondering about military skillet sets.

As a proud member of the Fightin' 547th Messkit Repair Battalion, Handle Company, Wingnut Platoon and a trained crew member of the Multiple Launch Bottle Rocket System (MLBRS) that was used to clear the 3rd floor barracks hallway on Saturday nights, I am uniquely qualified to answer his question.

Matt, the skillet sets that the military uses are way different than the skillet sets that thru hikers routinely used. Most thru-hikers find that military skillet sets are much larger and heavier than they need.

But we all know that one size boot does not fit all. The military skillet sets are very good for frying bacon and you might find them useful and worth carrying.

I'm very sorry it took so long for me to check this thread but I am glad that I was able to clear up all the confusion.

The Weasel
02-24-2009, 10:44
Interesting sentence.

Thank you. Have a wonderful day.:sun

TW

Vibe
02-24-2009, 10:49
Well, there's the problem! All this arguing over a word mweinstone misspelled. I'm sure you people are embarrassed right now. Matt was just wondering about military skillet sets.

As a proud member of the Fightin' 547th Messkit Repair Battalion, Handle Company, Wingnut Platoon and a trained crew member of the Multiple Launch Bottle Rocket System (MLBRS) that was used to clear the 3rd floor barracks hallway on Saturday nights, I am uniquely qualified to answer his question.

Matt, the skillet sets that the military uses are way different than the skillet sets that thru hikers routinely used. Most thru-hikers find that military skillet sets are much larger and heavier than they need.

But we all know that one size boot does not fit all. The military skillet sets are very good for frying bacon and you might find them useful and worth carrying.

I'm very sorry it took so long for me to check this thread but I am glad that I was able to clear up all the confusion.

Endangered Feces?????