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Wise Old Owl
02-22-2009, 20:13
Ever take a picture, review and when you get home it sucked? Here is a good example.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/2009.jpg

The anti shake was on, the auto was on, and when I saw the pic in the view, I thought it was ok. I was so wrong. blury and unrepairable. The strange part, the camera was sitting on a park bench!


Fuji 8.3 MP with 4x optical.

Camera folks what do you think I did wrong?

Hikes in Rain
02-22-2009, 20:38
Some days, the magic just doesn't work. I've had the same problem with my old Pentax Spotmatic 35mm SLR. Same thing with a variety of digital cameras. Never know why, but sometimes, things just don't work. Annoying as %#$%^

Egads
02-22-2009, 20:42
I usually find the top dial mode settings accidentally got changed when my pics suck.

Sly
02-22-2009, 20:46
Well, you could have taken a whole roll, paid x amount to have them developed and then found out they sucked.

Blissful
02-22-2009, 20:47
Is the lens clean? Could have a smear on it (that has happened to me). Use a lens cloth to clean it.

Highway Man
02-22-2009, 21:23
My take is,
Just like you said, the camera was sitting on a stable object while the image stabilization was on. The function is supposed to used only when the camera is hand held. It seems to constantly adjusts itself to compensate for the hand shaking when the shutter speed is not fast enough. Next time, you may need to turn the anti-shake off if you set it on a tripod, or a table, or so.

rickb
02-22-2009, 21:35
Perhaps you had the camera set up so that you are required to partially depress the shutter button to get the picture in focus, before depressing it all the way to take your shot.

And forgot the first step.

Feral Bill
02-22-2009, 22:19
Sometimes you need to go with the manual settings, as when the auto focus is on something other than what you want it to.

Franco
02-22-2009, 22:31
Most likely
1) condensation on the front element
2) fingerprint or lens not properly cleaned.
(ever tried to clean glasses without any cleaner ?)
If the following pictures are OK , then maybe it was number one.

BTW, quite funny that you blame "digital cameras" because with film you really have no clue at what you will get till you have the pictures in your hand , same for slides of course. You could capture the best exposed/focused whatever shots and all it takes is an accident at the lab to fix that.
Franco

WritinginCT
02-22-2009, 23:28
I get that a lot in my winter photography from condensation on the lens.

nitewalker
02-22-2009, 23:33
next time take two pictures or even 3. * have a digital camera that will hold hundereds maybe thousands of pics so take a few pics of your subject and maybe even switch the settings just for sheets and giggles..

Panzer1
02-22-2009, 23:35
I was thinking of adding a small piece of lens cleaning cloth to my kit. I could use it to clean my camera lens and as well as my glasses.

Panzer

Tennessee Viking
02-22-2009, 23:35
Really, just have to see the camera in person and test it out.

One thing, and if possible, shoot away from any bright sources of light or backgrounds.

There are a few cameras stablization feature will not work correctly on auto.

I find that my Fujifilm needs quite a bit of cloud cover to get a good contrast picture. Sunny no cloudy days everything tends to be more white.

frisbeefreek
02-22-2009, 23:49
Picture looks overexposed (sky is bright white), which indicates a slow shutter speed and results in blur / lack of sharpness.

I use a Canon A95 point and shoot, but when I have something with different contrasts, I often will go to manual mode and ensure my shutter speed is at least 1/60. If it's underexposed, Picasa "I feel Lucky" cleans can easily brighten it.

Funkmeister
02-23-2009, 00:50
A coupla good ideas here, but I have to disagree with frisbeefreek. The image does look overexposed, but I wonder if you set a large aperture (the f-stop on the lens), and you ran out of shutter speed, that is, the camera doesn't have a fast enough speed to match the lens setting. A slow shutter speed would imply a small aperture was used, and that means that even if the camera was misfocused, you would probably have something a bit more sharp.

If your dark jacket was a major part of the exposure calculation when you set the camera (as in you stood in front of the camera when you set the self timer), that could skew the settings as well. Ditto if it captured your distance when you set the self timer. The image you use has a 72dpi setting, so it's hard to tell, but it seems nothing is sharp, making me suspect the camera found a focus in front of everything in the picture.

A large aperture (ie, small f-stop number) makes for shallow depth of field, which makes focus critical. I have no idea of the particulars of your camera, but I wonder if you need to prefocus the lens ( or actually use a manual setting) when you use the self-timer feature. Your owner's manual may shed more light than I.

If the problem is condensation, the evidence is likely gone. Did you move the camera from a warm, humid environment to the cool air to take the photo? (Inside your jacket is warm and humid, and I see you're from the Philly area, so 'cool' is a possibility too).

Then again, it could be a very smudgy lens. Was previous and subsequent images similarly bad? Is there noticible grime on the lens right now?

Does the software on your computer support the details of the image? Knowing the exposure particulars could help you solve the problem.

I have little experience with anti-shake like you have, but several of my lenses have the anti-vibration feature. I've not had the problem with Vibration Reduction on a tripod, but come to think of it, I may have not ever used the two together.

As an aside, you might consider a skylight filter over your lens if your lens has threads. It lets you aggresively wipe crap from the glass without danger of scuffing the coating on the lens--at the very worst, you can just purchase another filter.

To answer your first question, YES. I make a living as a photographer, and I have terrabytes of images on various storage media. Not all of them are winners. I'm also so old, I have 4x5" and 8x10" transpariencies on something called FILM. In the olden days, like last century, we used Polariod to check composition, sharpness, and to some degree, exposure. This was before the snazzy image on the back of the camera. We used Polaroid to capture a three-dimensional image on a two-dimensional medium to show a one-dimensional Art Director.

Lots of good ideas in the above posts; shoots lots of images and edit later. And don't be afraid to try manual settings--if they look bad, learn why that is and use the delete button. Happy shooting.

waywardfool
02-23-2009, 01:20
Some very good thoughts in posts above. I'm thinking it's a focus issue. Either the autofocus was "hunting" when the timer tripped, or as said, focus locked on something close when you tripped the timer countdown.

Can you post a full-size pic someplace and link to it here? If not full res, then at least 800x600 or better at imageshack or one of the other photo sites. Might be better able to tell something then.

Franco
02-23-2009, 01:30
I would assume that the camera in question is the Fuji A820, shot taken on Auto at the widest setting, therefore the aperture is F2.9.
On those settings in spite of the large aperture everything should be in focus.
If the camera wasn't set on Macro , (can't remember where the Macro setting is with that one, but some are really easy to accidentally set) then is condensation. This Fuji has a digital stabiliser, no lens/shutter movement involved here, just firmware fiddling.
Franco

Homer&Marje
02-23-2009, 08:38
Seems like the Camera anti shake could be the problem as mentioned. I think more of a problem was the lighting. It seems the sun (Even if cloudy) was above your head and a little behind you. You want the sun more behind the camera, and if it's directly overhead a darker background. I think.

But take at least 3 of every picture with the digital cameras.

Gray Blazer
02-23-2009, 08:40
But take at least 3 of every picture with the digital cameras.

That's what I do. I figure if I take 50-100 shots of the same thing, one or two have to turn out pretty good.

Homer&Marje
02-23-2009, 09:02
As with so many things in life. I would rather be lucky, than good.


And I just got a digital camera so I am still learning with it. I had to get away from the 1 shot mentality of my old camera. I would be so disappointed to come home and get pictures developed and have some of my real hopefuls just not come out at all for one reason or the other. With really no indication of what went wrong.

Wise Old Owl
02-23-2009, 09:39
My take is,
Just like you said, the camera was sitting on a stable object while the image stabilization was on. The function is supposed to used only when the camera is hand held. It seems to constantly adjusts itself to compensate for the hand shaking when the shutter speed is not fast enough. Next time, you may need to turn the anti-shake off if you set it on a tripod, or a table, or so.


That was my suspicion too. I will try that.

Wise Old Owl
02-23-2009, 09:47
Seems like the Camera anti shake could be the problem as mentioned. I think more of a problem was the lighting. It seems the sun (Even if cloudy) was above your head and a little behind you. You want the sun more behind the camera, and if it's directly overhead a darker background. I think.

But take at least 3 of every picture with the digital cameras.

Actually the sun was way over on the left not behind, It had just stopped raining. The camera did overexpose, the lens is clean. The best part is so many folks weighed in, most of it awesome advice, I will play around and try to do better. Chawk it up to operator error. I am going to guess the Anti Shake was on while sitting still and I should have taken two or three pictures.

sheepdog
02-23-2009, 09:49
Operator error????;):D

boarstone
02-23-2009, 09:56
Your white balance may not work w/that camera in full auto mode, experiment with different lighting for say 20 or so pics, it's time consuming but oh so helpful when your VERY familiar w/your camera. Practice setting it up manually, which will mean reading repeatedly, the manual book. It's like anything, practice, practice, practice....that's what I hated about digital when it came out, throw my Canon 35mm in my hand and I'm all over it, but these buggers take some time to know exactly what to do with those do-hickies that change all of the what'cha macall-it's.....

Pedaling Fool
02-23-2009, 09:58
I don't know the answer, but I use a digital camera and I think I've had the same problem. One problem it the Auto Focus, you can sometimes try and get a picture, say (in my case) a bear that was in the brush. All the pics focused on the surrounding foilage, I couldn't get it to focus on the bear. I think the same thing happens when there's excessive moisture in the air, although can't tell by your pic if this was the case.

Also lighting, which is probably your problem. I've found that I usually have the flash turned off because it reflects the light from surrounding things, like foilage.

However, in your pic it looks like background lighting may be the real problem. My camera allows me to control the contrast, here's some examples (all pics taken within a minute) of a section of trail taken, the only difference is how I changed the contrast --- the flash was not used in any of these photos.

I think your pic would be better if you had adjusted the contrast because of the vast open light source behind you.

boarstone
02-23-2009, 11:11
Use your exposure compensation mode, if too bright, adjust to the negative, if too dark adjust to the positive until it is they way you want it to look.

Kerosene
02-23-2009, 13:20
I was thinking of adding a small piece of lens cleaning cloth to my kit. I could use it to clean my camera lens and as well as my glasses.That's what I do, although I keep the lens cloth buried and try to use it only in camp.

dloome
02-23-2009, 15:32
The picture looks overexposed. If you had the camera set on AUTO and it overexposed, my guesses would be:

-The battery was cold/low which slowed the shutter speed, resulting in blur and overexposure, and/or the auto-focus wasn't working properly. My old Fuji digital seemed especially susceptible to doing both of these things in cold weather as well. No problems with my current Nikon.

-Not sure what kind of Fuji it is, (assuming some sort of point and shoot compact) but the metering system in most compact digital cams is pretty lousy. Moreover, there are simply some scenarios where even with professional equipment it's quite difficult to expose properly.

This picture is a classic example: Bright sky, fairly dark foreground.

Gumbi
02-23-2009, 15:56
Ever take a picture, review and when you get home it sucked? Here is a good example.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/2009.jpg

The anti shake was on, the auto was on, and when I saw the pic in the view, I thought it was ok. I was so wrong. blury and unrepairable. The strange part, the camera was sitting on a park bench!


Fuji 8.3 MP with 4x optical.

Camera folks what do you think I did wrong?

It is over exposed and out of focus. I would check the focus first- that is probably the bigger problem. NOTHING in the picture is clear. Since we know that the camera was sitting on a stable surface, it focus has to be the problem.

fiddlehead
02-23-2009, 16:28
I'd consider getting another camera.
I have 3. Have found my canon and old coolpix usually work good and my kodak sometimes takes pictures like yours.
Maybe borrow a camera, and go out and take lots and lots of similar pictures and compare. Try many of the things mentioned above and then compare. But first, i would just turn it on, put it on automatic and shoot both or all of them and that would be the most important one for me comparatively.

Franco
02-23-2009, 19:49
Nothing to do with exposure.
Yes the shot is a bit overexposed but at about the limit of the dynamic range a camera of that type can handle. Overexposure does not give you a soft shot like that.

Stabilisation.
There are three types :
1) Optical (IE one lens element or group moves to counteract movement)
2) Mechanical (in-sensor type, the sensor moves)
3) Digital. With still cameras all it means is an auto shift to a higher ISO setting and or wider apertures.
Keep in mind that these cameras only have two or three apertures, sometimes only one operating at a particular focal length.

That "all out of focus shot" cannot be a result of 2 and 3 and does not look like what you get out of a malfunctioning type 1 either but more importantly I am not aware of a Fuji 8.3 mp 4x zoom that uses an Optical Stabiliser.
My guess , the Fuji A820 uses the "digital" kind.

Not seeing the original (unconpressed) is a bit hard to tell but I am more inclined now to think that the camera was set on Macro or "focused" in that range.
Franco

hootyhoo
02-23-2009, 21:01
The function is supposed to used only when the camera is hand held.

I will try that - some of my 'timer' pics turn out blurry,ect. I always wondered why.

Nearly Normal
02-23-2009, 21:31
I have an Olympus with the wet weather features I bought for hiking.
When you get a good pic it's great. I find it's hard to shoot consistant clean shots. I have to stabalized it on some sort of surface. Lots of settings. I take a lot of pics with it using different settings to try and learn how it shoots. It's mostly a pain in the ass. Light and holding the thing very still seems to be the key. The battery life is fantastic.

I have an old Fuji that just points and shoots. Takes great pics consistantly. No frills, works great.

Franco
02-23-2009, 22:42
Using the self timer mode, most compact cameras will focus lock when you press the button and activate the countdown, not just before the picture is taken as it happens with some DSLRs. So you need to have a subject at the same distance of where you will be and have the focus area pointing there. The commonest wrong result would be a background in focus with a blurry "subject" . It is possible here that the camera was pointed at something really close when the shutter was activated, so it focus locked in the Macro/close up position. IE pressing the shutter whilst bent down to position the camera.
Franco

RedneckRye
02-24-2009, 01:00
I'd also consider not taking photos with a trashcan and a road in the background.

Composition trumps exposure.

Feral Bill
02-24-2009, 01:12
I'd also consider not taking photos with a trashcan and a road in the background.

Composition trumps exposure.

Yes, but not focus. It's easy to Photoshop out clutter. Out of focus is beyond all help.

Wise Old Owl
02-24-2009, 13:55
Yes, but not focus. It's easy to Photoshop out clutter. Out of focus is beyond all help.


True, I can crop and paint all that out, The composistion can be fixed, but Bleach gave ne a very good answer - it was cold! and the camera was in a bag not in my jacket, and that is what cause the picture to goof!It was 34 degrees that day.

beakerman
02-24-2009, 22:16
I've got a 10mp fuji and I have found that when I do the tripod thing I have to be real careful with what I focus on. When you partially press the shutter button to do the exposure and focus I need to have something near where I am going to be standing and also in the same grey scale (for you old timer black and white film guys out there) to get the exposure the way I want it. Sometimes I force the exposure up a notch and let the shutter speed go longer to give a little better depth of field too--this helps with the auto focus issue. I also do not use the anti shake unless my exposure is longer than 1/60 of a second--that is the old rule of thumb for film cameras and so far it has not let me down with the digitals. I also don't keep the camera in my pocket (it's texas we don't have jackets down here) even though it will fit quite nicely there I keep it out on a lanyard where i can get to it quickly.

Wise Old Owl
02-24-2009, 23:41
Uhh Beakerman, the timer was engaged so I could get in the picture. The camera was cold. Nothing else could be the answer to the issue.

dla
02-25-2009, 02:13
Ever take a picture, review and when you get home it sucked? Here is a good example.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/2009.jpg

The anti shake was on, the auto was on, and when I saw the pic in the view, I thought it was ok. I was so wrong. blury and unrepairable. The strange part, the camera was sitting on a park bench!


Fuji 8.3 MP with 4x optical.

Camera folks what do you think I did wrong?

Some things to consider: (1) clean the lens (2) check the setting you are using to understand the focusing area used. If possible, modify the setting to reduce the area used to focus (3) check your camera's auto ISO range adjustment. I suggest you limit the range to no greater than ISO 400 as some cameras will range to ISO3200 with very grainy results.

My non-professional opinion? I think your camera chose a low F-stop and then focused on something other than you. Sometimes you can zoom in on the picture and figure out where the camera focused.

beakerman
02-25-2009, 02:26
Uhh Beakerman, the timer was engaged so I could get in the picture. The camera was cold. Nothing else could be the answer to the issue.

well obviously you used the timer duh! why else would you put the camera on the bench?

Even with automatic settings and using the timer you still have to "let the camera know" what object it's supposed to be focused on hence the partial push of the shutter button to get the exposure and focus right. Perhaps my camera has some different features than yours but I can press my shutter button half way--even when using the the timer--and it does all the adjustments and such before I snap the picture or start the timer. Play around with your camera a bit and you might find you have the same feature.

I also can force certain aperture settings which forces the camera to recalculate the shutter speed to maintain the correct exposure. Smaller aperture settings have higher depth of field which means more of what's in the frame will be in focus but they will require slower shutter speeds and can get into motion blur situations if you go too far with it. I will typically only go one or to stops.

I used to do all of this stuff manually with film cameras back in the day. The hardest part of the newer cameras is not technically knowing what you need to do like pushing the exposure but figuring out what they called a particular setting or what icon they used for it and where it is in the menu options. Film, glass plates or digital media the basics of photography still apply it's only a question of how many layers of technology separate you from what is really happening. I will add this: most digital camera manufacturers have done a pretty good job of mimicking the features of traditional film cameras. Some day I guess when all of us old school film guys are gone they may start doing something different.

I do use the fully automatic modes for some photos--mostly the quick point and shoot snap shot type stuff where you are not going to have a minute or more to set the camera up properly to get a good photo. As a result I delete a lot of photos that are trash.

Taking photos of myself with either a tripod or some improvised support is always a manual operation for me. I take a few more seconds and set things up the way I want as I described in my previous post then set my timer and get in frame. I also do not use the anti motion blur settings. It's one feature I just don't trust--there is no film analogue for it. I much prefer controlling the shutter speed with the aperture settings or just forcing a shutter speed and let the camera do the aperture for those times when motion blur can be a problem.

Wise Old Owl
03-02-2009, 18:11
I really appreciated your help, the model I used only had a bunch of auto modes and no manual ones. There was a lot of good information here.

I want to thank everyone who weighed in on this thread!

kyhipo
03-02-2009, 18:16
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/47/132403601_f096d1a90b_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28084003@N00/132403601/)
nice picture for a throw away.ky

Highway Man
03-02-2009, 22:19
I don't know the answer, but I use a digital camera and I think I've had the same problem. One problem it the Auto Focus, you can sometimes try and get a picture, say (in my case) a bear that was in the brush. All the pics focused on the surrounding foilage, I couldn't get it to focus on the bear. I think the same thing happens when there's excessive moisture in the air, although can't tell by your pic if this was the case.

Also lighting, which is probably your problem. I've found that I usually have the flash turned off because it reflects the light from surrounding things, like foilage.

However, in your pic it looks like background lighting may be the real problem. My camera allows me to control the contrast, here's some examples (all pics taken within a minute) of a section of trail taken, the only difference is how I changed the contrast --- the flash was not used in any of these photos.

I think your pic would be better if you had adjusted the contrast because of the vast open light source behind you.

I'm trying to follow JG's lead to make my points.

Focusing one thing getting another is probably the innate problem of low end cameras. Multi-points focusing system may solve the problem, plus the view finders on SLR cameras that gives a shooter the direct idea what focus should be. Or maybe W.O.O. picked up a wrong spot at foreground to focus.

Overexposed background is a famous topic of landscape/outdoor shooting. Fill light helps at many circumstances to reduce background exposure. But I suspect there are some other cases that might have contributed to such a problem. For example, W.O.O focused on the foreground as an open sky has no contrast for the camera to focus, and then raised up the camera to shoot. The camera was metered for a low light but shot high.

I agree with JG that in-camera jpeg file contract setting may affect the highlighted area to make it worse if it is set high to shoot back lit features.

My recommendations are, turn on the neutral density filter if there is one in camera; sheet RAW format and use software to adjust levels or curves

Franco
03-03-2009, 02:40
Just a final quick note.
Those Fuji cameras have neither built in ND filters nor RAW.
I sold cameras for 30 years and purchased thousands of them for the shop I worked for every year for several years. It was pretty common for the staff (about 40 sales people) to come and see me when similar problems occurred. Again not seeing the original shot is hard to tell, but it is a focus problem.
Curiously Fujifilm was not one of my brands,the other buyer took care of them, but apart from some quirky behaviour from certain models , they don't vary that much one from the other. BTW it was always easier to explain "malfunctions" to the pros than to amateurs. The most difficult were always the would be pro that shot 3 weddings a year.
Franco

waywardfool
03-03-2009, 14:21
Building more on what Franco says above...shoot more. It doesn't cost anything but a little time. You'll learn the little "quirks" of your particular camera model. I use a Nikon D80 regularly, and it took me about a year to really get a good hang of how the metering and focus on this particular model really behaved -- now, I can mostly tell what adjustments to make to exposure, or if I need to go to manual focus, before even lifting the camera to my eye.