What are you willing to sacrifice to save weight? [Archive]

sbennett

02-24-2009, 18:25

bigcranky

02-24-2009, 18:54

Our first backpacking trip I carried a pack that weighed 65 pounds. My wife's pack weighed 45 pounds. I don't really remember exactly what we had in those packs, except that we had a complete change of clothes (jeans! cotton t-shirts!) for each day on the trail, along with large bottles of soap, shampoo, etc., etc. We "saved weight" by carrying a tiny, cramped, useless cheap tent. This was in late May in Virginia.

For a similar 4-day hike in June last year we carried maybe 40 pounds total between the two of us. Food, water, gear, everything.

In reality, I can't think of one single thing that we have "sacrificed" to carry less weight. We have a larger, better (and lighter) tent, we carry tastier food, our clothing is a LOT better -- warmer, drier, and lighter -- and we are far happier both hiking and in camp.

I like hiking solo in colder weather. As my pack weight has dropped from over 50 pounds (base weight!) to less than 20, again, I can't see that I lost much except the pain in my knees.

I have left some things I home that I regretted, and added back into my kit. Last summer I left my camp clogs and my headlamp at home, and missed them both. They'll be in my pack next week.

For many beginning hikers, overpacking is a basic and understandable reaction to the unknown. Someone once said that we pack to overcome our fears. As we become more comfortable in the outdoors, those fears lessen, and we start leaving home things that we don't really need. That, I think, is one key to a lighter pack. But that means one has to start with a heavier pack and work at it for a while. Your mileage may vary, of course.

skinewmexico

02-24-2009, 18:58

I don't sacrifice, but I may have to delay to find the items I want, at a price I can afford. Hike smarter, not harder.

freefall

02-24-2009, 19:01

This question has sort of been on my mind for a while as I've tried to pare down the weight of my pack and its contents. It seems that there are myriad opportunities for one to lighten their load...for the right sacrifice (be it comfort or money). For instance, 850 fill sleeping bags versus 600 fill sleeping bags; double wall tents versus lighter single wall tents; thin sleeping pads versus thick ones. So, what is everyone really willing to sacrifice to reduce their load? Examples are welcome...
One of the best ways to save weight is to go through your pack item by item with someone else. They don't have to be experienced backpackers, just some basic knowledge of the past time. Have them pull out each item and you have to justify it being in your pack. Some people can do this solo but for me, it really helped to have a friend there to keep me from rationalizing my way to a 50 lb pack.

garlic08

02-24-2009, 19:38

Ditto what the others have said--it's not a sacrifice, just a different way to travel. I was showing my Tarptent to a new hiker once, and she said, "Wow, what else do you have to give up to get light?" It was like the question "When did you stop beating your wife."--no good answer.

For me, now, it's more of a sacrifice to carry heavier and more stuff. I don't enjoy the hike as much.

SGT Rock

02-24-2009, 19:48

I sacrifice weight to save weight. I still have at least as many luxuries (if not more) as I had when I carried 65 pounds.

freefall

02-24-2009, 19:55

I sacrifice weight to save weight. I still have at least as many luxuries (if not more) as I had when I carried 65 pounds.
Agreed. If I'm over 35 lbs, 4-season with food and water for 7 days then something is wrong. Including a journal notebook, a book to read and a radio/ mp3 player.

SGT Rock

02-24-2009, 19:59

Cigars, book, bourbon, mp3, hammock, journal, and lots of hot food. I cook more now that I am lightweight with alcohol then I ever did with a 2 pound "real stove"

mateozzz

02-24-2009, 21:20

Things I got rid of:

Mess kit (only needed small pot)
knife/fork (spoon and pocket knife only)
MSR stove, white gas bottle (used penny alcohol stove)
Full tent (only carry tarp and bug net)
Paper towels
Full bottle of bug spray (just carried a little bit)
Heavy leatherman, switched to lighter version
Full bottle of foot powder, hardly needed any
Pack cover (everything is bagged anyway)
compression bag for sleeping bag (almost 1 lb!)
extra flashlight
Only carried 5 days food instead of 10 (duh)

Things I didn't sacrifice were major comfort items

Exped inflatable pad (a half length would be OK)
Gregory Baltoro pack with excellent support system, very comfy

I cut almost 15 lbs from my 1st section hike. Hope that helps.

neo

02-24-2009, 23:21

Wags

02-25-2009, 00:40

uh oh. with the gear you're unloading and the 'example' you gave i smell someone trying to justify buying a new WM bag w/ their tax returns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

take-a-knee

02-25-2009, 01:01

uh oh. with the gear you're unloading and the 'example' you gave i smell someone trying to justify buying a new WM bag w/ their tax returns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds good to me, and American company sewing American nylon. It'll likely cost $50 more next year.

Dogwood

02-25-2009, 03:17

Ditto what the others have said--it's not a sacrifice, just a different way to travel....

For me, now, it's more of a sacrifice to carry heavier and more stuff....

I tend to agree. If was to ask the lightest guys I know they don't think like that. They don't think that it always means sacrificing something, like comfort or safety or convenience or money, to go lighter. However, I will also say that IMO the wt saving philosphy can be taken to such an extreme that it becomes THE over riding priority in choosing gear and backpacking. I see some obsessed by this philosophy. Whenever, I choose a piece of gear I have 4 main considerations: 1) performance - I ask myself, "is this piece of gear going to perform as I need it to for the conditions I'm most likely to encounter? Does it fit into my hiking style, base of backpacking knowledge, and total kit set-up?, this is almost always my number one priority 2) wt. of that piece of gear - How does that wt influence my hike? 3) durability - if I'm hard on gear or going someplace where my gear is going to be subjected to extreme conditions like backcountry bushwacking in S. America, New Zealand, or Alaska far from where I can get help or get replacement gear or used in a mountaineering or canyoneering situation where my life may be in serious jeopardy if it doesn't endure this is going to be a high priority 4) cost - I don't know many multi-millionaire backpackers. I know some of this is probably way overkill for planning an AT hike or dropping gear wt on the AT, but keeping these considerations in mind will always help in choosing the optimal gear for the hike and keep some from going down the road to "the lightest is always the best philosophy". By the way, I'm an ULer.

Pokey2006

02-25-2009, 05:21

Food is the biggest "sacrifice." Instead of Liptons and cans of ham, there are homemade dehydrated meals like eggplant Parmesan, pulled pork and rice and beef stew. Wait! I guess that's not much of a sacrifice...

Things I've given up as I've gradually worked my way down to ultra-light, besides food, include: camp shoes, a pillow and extra hiking socks. Then there are the things that get swapped out: tent to tarp, fleece jacket to down, traditional cook pot to Heiney pot, etc.

However, I don't feel the least bit deprived without the things I've "sacrificed." And I still carry things like digital camera, cell phone and sometimes even a paperback book.

Some things that DON'T get sacrificed, ever: warm clothes and rain gear, a change of dry clothes (including socks) to sleep in, a warm sleeping bag, maps and coffee.

Egads

02-25-2009, 06:33

UL is not about sacrificing comfort or safety, it's about leaving behind the things you do not need and making different choices in gear.

Tin Man

02-25-2009, 07:21

carry single malt... half the weight of blends and more likely to be used quicker

buz

02-25-2009, 09:45

Tin,

I need to hike with you. Single malt night cap tough to beat.

I think in general, new gear replacing old gear will save the most weight, especially if you have old gear. Costs $ thou. I won't sacrifice in sleeping comfort, cold/wet comfort, or pack comfort. But continually investing in new good gear has brought the base weight down and maybe even increased the comfort level in some areas, with lower overall weight.

For me, spending money is the best weight savings. Most of those are wrung out thou, presently, at least for my budget today.

skinewmexico

02-25-2009, 11:51

carry single malt... half the weight of blends and more likely to be used quicker

And if you can get cask strength, you can carry even less.

Frick Frack

02-25-2009, 12:00

I always had a bad habit of packing too many clothes (3 prs extra socks, 2 prs extra boxers, a few extra shirts, etc.) Now what I wear plus a rain jacket and a few items to combat cold are it. Also, when we section hike we ALWAYS have some libation of one form or another but on our thru this was a luxury only a handfull of times. Oh, I have seen hikers with ground clothes for their tents....those things are worthless.

boarstone

02-25-2009, 13:47

Not anything I gonna' NEED....

sbennett

02-25-2009, 13:50

uh oh. with the gear you're unloading and the 'example' you gave i smell someone trying to justify buying a new WM bag w/ their tax returns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's hilarious....because I just bought a new WM bag this past weekend!

sbennett

02-25-2009, 13:58

I tend to agree. If was to ask the lightest guys I know they don't think like that. They don't think that it always means sacrificing something, like comfort or safety or convenience or money, to go lighter. However, I will also say that IMO the wt saving philosphy can be taken to such an extreme that it becomes THE over riding priority in choosing gear and backpacking. I see some obsessed by this philosophy. Whenever, I choose a piece of gear I have 4 main considerations: 1) performance - I ask myself, "is this piece of gear going to perform as I need it to for the conditions I'm most likely to encounter? Does it fit into my hiking style, base of backpacking knowledge, and total kit set-up?, this is almost always my number one priority 2) wt. of that piece of gear - How does that wt influence my hike? 3) durability - if I'm hard on gear or going someplace where my gear is going to be subjected to extreme conditions like backcountry bushwacking in S. America, New Zealand, or Alaska far from where I can get help or get replacement gear or used in a mountaineering or canyoneering situation where my life may be in serious jeopardy if it doesn't endure this is going to be a high priority 4) cost - I don't know many multi-millionaire backpackers. I know some of this is probably way overkill for planning an AT hike or dropping gear wt on the AT, but keeping these considerations in mind will always help in choosing the optimal gear for the hike and keep some from going down the road to "the lightest is always the best philosophy". By the way, I'm an ULer.

I think this is a great philosophy but what if you have a situation where performance and durability of two items are the same but the weight and price are not? Is it reasonable to spend an extra $100 to save 4 ounces? Will the increase in my enjoyment outweigh the increase in expenditure? I guess that's what I was trying to get at with this is thread; when is going lighter just not worth it?

Blissful

02-25-2009, 14:22

I will ever unload my two cocoon travel pillows. Or my Thermarest seat cushion.
No how. No way. :)

middle to middle

02-25-2009, 15:29

I planned and cut weight many times before I started my walk. At least three times I recall sitting in the sun somewhere and re thinking and packing and leaving little piles of stuff for some other day hiker to carry home. I believe food was the only thing I never dispensed with.

Wags

02-25-2009, 17:25

That's hilarious....because I just bought a new WM bag this past weekend!

I KNEW IT!!! you gonna show this thread to your gal?

hopefulhiker

02-25-2009, 17:33

I am thinking of going out for a little shake down hike. I am wondering about combining shelter/raingear. like the Gatewood Cape and sleeping/camp jacket... like the JRB no sniveller... take a 3/4 ridgerest, and maybe the Caldera Keg....
Of course I don't have all this gear yet... but it sounds like it might work. especially in good weather!

seedog

02-25-2009, 17:34

Sacrifice the guilt for not hiking when i should. Less guilt=less weight on my mind

theinfamousj

02-25-2009, 17:38

I used to hike with a solar shower and Nalgenes. Now I hike with Gatorade bottles and a platy-bladder. An extra soda bottle cap with ~ 3 small holes drilled in it makes a shower.

Sorry y'all, but I cannot go to bed dirty. I have to do a quick trail shower every evening (in the warm weather ... not in the winter). If you come upon someone showering in the woods, it is probably me. But I sleep much better that way. I've noticed that it has no effect on my stank, because that mostly comes from the clothes.

I've also given up most of the rope I used to bring. Thanks to learning new ways to tie knots, I can not reconnect a sectioned rope into a long rope, or section it off again. Very useful to have. I used to bring one rope for cutting and one for bear bagging. No longer!

And I no longer bring as much after-dark entertainment as I used to. If I bring a book, I bring one from Project Gutenberg that has been uploaded to my cell phone. My cell phone has an application that lets me read text files. Since I'm usually bringing it anyway (because Dad has a heart condition that routinely acts up at the worst times and guess who is next-of-kin?) this cuts down on paperback weight.

I traded in my 2.5 lb / $20 tent for a 1 lb / $300 (? how much does The One cost?) tent. That was quite a money sacrifice, right there.

I traded my cool designer stuff sacks and compression sacks for Turkey Roaster bags. Much lighter and much more waterproof.

I traded my 6 lb REI pack for a 2 lb GG Vapor Trail and actually came out ahead, financially. The REI pack was $100+ (bless REI's return policy) and the GG VT, purchased used off of WB, was under $100.

I think that about covers it. I had a grease pot (from Wally World way back when WW actually carried them) from the start and my first backpacking stove was a home made alcohol. I always used chemicals to treat my water. And the UL people can have my sleeping bag when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers. Neeeeeeeds the -5*F rating! Needs it, I tell you!

The Weasel

02-25-2009, 18:09

carry single malt... half the weight of blends and more likely to be used quicker

TM, you are right except that I carry The Macallan, which is heavier, fuller, has more body. I know there are lighter Scotches but sometimes you just need more weight.

TW

saimyoji

02-25-2009, 18:14

'bout three years ago i dropped about 50 lbs.....off my fat ass. :)

sbennett

02-25-2009, 18:30

I KNEW IT!!! you gonna show this thread to your gal?

She already knows about the bag...I can't really hide such a thing when we live in the same apartment!:D

All I HAD to do was convince her my bag wasn't as good as hers (which of course it is) and she was fine.

Dogwood

02-25-2009, 19:53

I think this is a great philosophy but what if you have a situation where performance and durability of two items are the same but the weight and price are not? Is it reasonable to spend an extra $100 to save 4 ounces? Will the increase in my enjoyment outweigh the increase in expenditure? I guess that's what I was trying to get at with this is thread; when is going lighter just not worth it?

That's the $1,000,000 question. It's kinda like asking my girlfriend what size diamond ring is large enough!

skinewmexico

02-25-2009, 19:57

Glad I could help finance that WM bag! I need to sell some gear, and do the same thing.

beakerman

02-25-2009, 21:58

I don't have to worry about weight...I have my minions carry the load I just supervise;). Of course they are not quite up to a AT thru hike yet, and in my current shape (round is still a shape right?) neither am I but I do get out down here in the flat lands and put some miles on my boots.

SGT Rock

02-25-2009, 22:00

I think this is a great philosophy but what if you have a situation where performance and durability of two items are the same but the weight and price are not? Is it reasonable to spend an extra $100 to save 4 ounces? Will the increase in my enjoyment outweigh the increase in expenditure? I guess that's what I was trying to get at with this is thread; when is going lighter just not worth it?
I've seen it too. I've also seen the competition to see who can be the lightest. I went through that phase a while back and at the sub 5 pound pack I got sane and went back up about 5 pounds. I did sub 5, but wasn't happy with all the compromises just to get a little lighter.

WILLIAM HAYES

02-25-2009, 22:11

check out backpackinglite.com they have excellent suggestions on how to save weight

George

02-25-2009, 22:42

I do not give up on eating a lot, keeping warm or being able to sleep. I do give up entertainment, keeping clean,privacy, comfort other than sleeping and keeping dry other than body core

Egads

02-25-2009, 22:48

When is going lighter just not worth it?

UL is not worth it when you decide you would rather have the luxuries and carry the weight than go without.

It means bring the single malt, the inflatable pad, or the GF because you want to.

Nearly Normal

02-26-2009, 00:13

Dogwood

02-26-2009, 16:27

I've seen it too. I've also seen the competition to see who can be the lightest. I went through that phase a while back and at the sub 5 pound pack I got sane and went back up about 5 pounds.....

I have the same sentiments. Decided to get off the UL merry-go-round at sub 5 lbs. base wt. BUT BUT BUT, that doesn't mean UL hasn't served me well getting my wt. down to that pt!!! UL philosophy will be with me forever. It's like that girlfriend that you break up with, but you still keep around just in case you need her again!!!

JAK

02-26-2009, 16:33

So, what is everyone really willing to sacrifice to reduce their load? Examples are welcome...Complexity.

The Solemates

02-26-2009, 19:11

for 3 season hiking on the AT, i dont carry many of the things most people call 'essentials':

first aid
extra water
extra clothing
camp clothing
extra anything for that matter
compass
maps
double wall tent
full sleeping pad
duct tape
hiking poles
emergency blanket
extra socks
nalgenes
knife
various stuff sacks
camp shoes
whistle
back up matches
fire starter
pens/pencils
money
wallet
credit cards
ID, etc
rain pants
pack cover

but on other trails and during other times of the year, i do carry some of these items...it all depends on the location, duration of the trip, and risk for exposure.

sometimes i carry many things people consider luxury items:

i often carry 2 or more books
hand sanitizer
single wall tent
nice, warm sleeping bag
extra food

Connie

01-14-2010, 03:32

The stuff I carry now is a luxury.

My old heavy stuff was so ugly, clunky and heavy. Remember "mess kits"?

My newer stuff is a delight.

I never weigh anything. No, one time I weighed my "big four" for a thread in this forum. The Postmistress weighed my pack and said, "My purse weighs more than that"! That was fun.

Of course, all my gear qualifies as only lightweight, not ultralight. That is because I have select ultralight gear so I can carry more food and stay in the mountains longer.

I have really aesthetically beautiful stuff.

It also performs much better than the old stuff.