View Full Version : shelter system setup...
so i'm thinking of trying a new shelter system than my double wall tent.
basically i'd like to try a bug netting w/ bathtub floor (similar to mld serenity shelter) and combine it w/ kelty's noah tarp. i figure this will be a better option than to go w/ a tarptent, simply b/c i can use the net in shelters or similar. any drawbacks? thoughts?
bad thing is i don't use poles, so i'd have to tie up the tarp, which shouldn't be a problem on the AT and have to carry seperate poles for the bug netting...
If your going to carry tent pole's anyway, consider trekking poles. I never thought much of them until I used them for a bit. Like having 4 leg's. or 2 legs and a set of antenae.
Blissful
02-27-2009, 20:47
Why do you need a net in a shelter? Only place you might do that is Mass and there people tent anyway. Just bring your tent. It works better in New England too with the weather conditions and platforms.
The MLD serenity shelter is a little tight for extended durations or for changing clothes. A tent would do better for a long hike
If you're not really tall perhaps you would like Six Moon Designs solution of Gatewood Cape (http://sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=45) plus Serenity NetTent (http://sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=55&bc=no), which weigh 11 oz and 7 oz, respectively, and only require one pole.
They also sell a carbon fiber pole (http://sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?search=yes&bc=no) for those that don't use trekking poles, it's 1.8 oz.
I have the MLD bug shelter, which I like a little better for use with a poncho tarp since I think (?) it has more of a bathtub floor, but I've not seen the two setup side-by-side.
Why do you need a net in a shelter? Only place you might do that is Mass and there people tent anyway. Just bring your tent. It works better in New England too with the weather conditions and platforms.
bees and mosquitos
i'm intrigued by the tarptent idea, but have started to give some thought towards just doing an all net tent shaped thing and a tarp cover.
so i'm thinking of trying a new shelter system than my double wall tent.
basically i'd like to try a bug netting w/ bathtub floor (similar to mld serenity shelter) and combine it w/ kelty's noah tarp. i figure this will be a better option than to go w/ a tarptent, simply b/c i can use the net in shelters or similar. any drawbacks? thoughts?
bad thing is i don't use poles, so i'd have to tie up the tarp, which shouldn't be a problem on the AT and have to carry seperate poles for the bug netting...
Not a bad idea at all. I tie up to trees all the time (hammock). You can do the same with a tarp, then pitch the net tent underneath it. I've been doing this for years in the summer when I sometimes bring a companion along and use my old Walrus bug shelter (reborn as the REI Bug Hut 2) under a 10x12 Equinox tarp.
Do yourself a favor and look at the Equinox tarps. Being silnylon, they're lighter than the Kelty tarps and not that much more expensive. I prefer nylon loop tieouts on my tarps, but haven't had a grommet tear out of my Equinox yet. I use it most often now for a walk-in winter hammock tarp. You shouldn't need one as big as mine.
well someday i suppose i'll probably try hammocking, so this will leave that option open at minimum cost. i'll investigate the equinox
Wags
"i'm intrigued by the tarptent idea, but have started to give some thought towards just doing an all net tent shaped thing and a tarp cover."
Possibly that is why the Tarptents are so popular. By the time you get a net inner and a tarp you might as well get the two into one. Some do have problems setting up the tarp tents (Tarptent/SMD) but I cannot really see how a bug net/tarp duo would be easier or quicker to do.
BTW, you can set up the Contrail by attaching the front guy line to a tree ( a friend of mine had to do that when he discovered that the Rainbow I lent him was a Contrail...)
but for $10 you can get two poles for it, one for most uses, two tied together for "those" nights.
Franco
well the reason why i'd be quicker to go for this is on a night when no rain is expected i could just leave the tarp packed and enjoy the breeze.
crappy weather? i can just take the tarp out, set it up and then unload underneath. man this may be my ticket!
the bug hut 2 looks great tinker, thanks
that and i'll be able to do this system for about $110 as opposed to the $200 for tarptent
I got the cloudburst II tarptent. sets up ini 5 min, lots of room, take down in 1 min and has not failed once in 3 years. using on my thru starting monday. a little pricey but simple and effective.
bees and mosquitos
i'm intrigued by the tarptent idea, but have started to give some thought towards just doing an all net tent shaped thing and a tarp cover.
My most frequent shelter these days. Very lightweight but limited in size.
It was a haven from mosquitoes in Glacier NP one night
MLD Serenity Shelter w/o tarp
http://www.hikes247.com/images/photos/2008_8-9_AT/slides/IMG_0129.html
MLD Serenity Shelter w/ a MLD Patrol Shelter That is a Six Moon Design Lunar Solo on the right
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=25852&catid=member&imageuser=9622
looks like a great setup egads. that's exactly what i'm looking for. i think i'm gonna go towards the rei bug hut 2 that tinker mentioned strictly for the size issue. excellent! my last upgrade of the big 4!!!
blue wally pad > ba insulated aircore
gregory pack that didn't fit right > osprey aether
lafuma synthetic > MH down
old clip flashlight > this setup
i'm excited. i really think this type of setup will be the most versitile for me, unless i go out during a really cold strech, in which case i'd carry the clip flashlight instead...
thanks guys, will let you know how it all works out
wags
stranger
02-28-2009, 21:41
The main benefit to a tarp and a bugnet underneath is that you can set up the tarp in the pissing rain, crawl underneath, then sort our the rest of your stuff under the protection of the tarp. In the morning you can pack everything up in the rain, underneath your tarp, and set out with only tarp that's soaked. Plus setting up a wet tarp is no big deal, while setting up a wet tarptent is slightly more annoying.
I've used this system and it works great, much better than a tarptent (I had a tarptent) because a tarptent is all one piece, so when you pack it up the wet fly gets the dry floor wet.
Check our the Integral Designs Bug Shelter for the Silshelter, 17oz, or the Shangra La 1 bug net by Go lite, 21oz, I would also say the Serenity Shelter by MLD is too small to do anything other than sleep in, I really wish they would make one about 18 inches wider!
Gossamer Gear just came out with a large silnylon version of their Spinn Twinn, not too expensive. The MLD tarps are great as well.
"The main benefit to a tarp and a bugnet underneath is that you can set up the tarp in the pissing rain, crawl underneath, then sort our the rest of your stuff under the protection of the tarp. In the morning you can pack everything up in the rain, underneath your tarp, and set out with only tarp that's soaked."
Very peculiar because that is exactly what I do with the Contrail except for step 2, IE the "bugnet" goes up at the same time. . Maybe I am not doing it right then...
Franco
Unless weight in your pack isn't a concern for you, I'd skip the Kelty Noah's Tarp in lieu of something lighter. I've seen hammockers use the Noah tarps and they're pretty hefty, IMO. You're better off considering something like an Equinox, Speer, Jacks r Better, OES MacCat, etc if you ask me. But go with what works for you. Whatever you decide, I hope you're happy and comfy with it. :D
Stranger
Have a look at this video, http://video.yahoo.com/watch/1430969/4921727 (http://video.yahoo.com/watch/1430969/4921727)
easier than trying to explain.
(keep in mind that it was done as a bit of fun but nevertheless that is how I set up the Contrail. )
Can you tell me how setting up a tarp would keep the inside dryer than my version ?
When I take it down I would guess that if the floor of the Contrail is wet, so would be your groundsheet or whatever you use.
Here I also can't see why your set up would be dryer .
Franco
Alligator
02-28-2009, 23:32
There are a few tarp threads running, with bivies, shaped tarps, etc.
I just use an 8X10 silnylon tarp with a rectangular bug net (when needed) and a piece of kite tyvek (3X7 or maybe 8 I forget exactly) for a groundcloth. Three season use rain or shine. I've been in a number of heavy rainstorms with this setup and I don't worry about getting wet. A flat tarp is more versatile IMO.
I've used the bug netting in a couple of shelters, NJ and PA come to mind.
i'm definitely open for ideas concerning the tarp. i think i'm set on the rei bug hut 2, as it has the poles included, is free standing, can be set up w/o any tieouts, is roomy. those other nets look good but most require poles or some fancy pants rigging system to stand em up. not worth the effort for a couple ounces to me.
stranger
03-01-2009, 00:19
Hey Franco, this thread isn't about you or a competition, but I think you miss the point.
The reason why a tarptent floor is more likely to get wet than the setup I described is that with a large tarp offers much more coverage than a tarptent, ie. the distance between the edge of the tarptent fly, and the floor is a matter of inches, so splashing is more likely to wet the floor and groundwater will reach the floor easier.
In the setup I use, the distance is about 18 inches, so the area all around the bugnet is usually dry if I set up and it's not raining. If it is raining, I still use a groundsheet and the "tent" barely gets wet.
Also, no matter how you look at it, you will have condensation in your tarptent in the morning, and that condensation gets packed up with the rest of your shelter. With a separate tarp, strung higher with open ends, you have less condensation, and you can separate it from your "tent". Even with no condensation, in a fantasy world, you would most likely have dew on the outside of the fly in the morning, again, with a tarptent, you pack it up with your dry "tent" because it's only one piece.
For the record, I love tarptents, just found this to work better, chin up mate.
stranger
03-01-2009, 00:25
Sorry, I am also speaking about AT use, I just saw you are in Melbourne, although I'm now living in Sydney, I don't know the weather patterns here yet, so my example is that of about 3000 miles along the AT since 1994. In other parts of the world, dew and condensation might not be such an issue. But they certainly are in New Zealand and along the AT in my experience.
Stranger
I was addressing mostly , again , this line "The main benefit to a tarp and a bugnet underneath is that you can set up the tarp in the pissing rain, crawl underneath, then sort our the rest of your stuff under the protection of the tarp"
My point is , benefit over what ? all shelters except for inner pitch first double wall tents (American style) pitch like that, no matter if they are a hammock, a tarp , a tipi or a tarp tent. The comments above yours only discussed a tarp and a tarp tent set up, no double wall tents were mentioned.
Franco
stranger
03-01-2009, 02:24
Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other, likely through posting. The purpose of my response was to talk about the systems I've used because it's what the thread topic was about. I find using a tarp, with a separate bug tent underneath, is the most versatile for me, because of the following:
- Tarps gives you the largest amount of space for weight ratio
- I can choose whether or not to use the bugnet
- I can send the bugnet up the trail
- The bugnet is substantially smaller than the tarp, so I can wake up in the pouring rain without having to worry about the net being wet (in most cases)
- I can set up the tarp wet without having to worry about the moisture on the inside of the tarp, because my tent is separate to it.
- I can use the bugnet in a shelter if it's a horrible night or I have a desire to be around mice
- It's lighter than most single wall tents, about the same weight as a Contrail, but with substantially more room.
i'm not saying it's for everyone, and it's more complex than perhaps setting up a contrail, but it's definitely more versatile, which is nice when out for 2 months on a trail.
Definitely agree with post 24.
There is no completely right or wrong shelter for most 3 season use, just options that work better for some. I trade off some of those points for speed and ease of use, both I could overcome if I put a little more effort with my tarp skills, however I still enjoy a degree of privacy that I am not (at this point) ready to lose.
In the end all I try to do is to dispel some of the misconceptions about tarp tents but my advice is always to get the shelter you fancy, every kind has some strong points and some weaknesses , finding the right balance is the hard part.
BTW, yes we still get condensation, not much rain though.
Franco