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SunnyWalker
02-28-2009, 00:34
I have a Clip Flashlight, HH and am not interested in bivi sack camping with the use of my poncho as a tarp. I notice there are no articles on this subject. Anyone know where I can go to see advice, experience, etc. I have found mainly reviews of different bivi sacks. Would rather read expeirences with bivi and all. Am wanting to use this on a thru hike on AT. Here are some question: In summer is it pretty warm and hot in a bivy? Anyo9ne recommend a sleeping bag BASED ON EXPERIENCE in a bivi over others? I was thnking thinking that a synthetic would be better to then handle the moisture buildup that might (will) happen. Thanks one and all. -Oh, am thinking the Bivi weighs (I might be committing mortal sin here) LESS than the HH! then of course I will use a big Agnes air mattress. Thanks one and all.:sun

SunnyWalker
02-28-2009, 00:35
I meant to start out saying I have a Clip Flashlight tent, and a HH and now am thinking of Bivi sack camping......

fiddlehead
02-28-2009, 00:43
i slept in one once. That was enough.
It would be ok in an emergency i guess.

Imagine a 2 day rain (typical on the AT) and your only shelter is your bivy.
YOu have to close it up to stay dry. Are you going to look forward to going in there and closing that thing up? Not me.

I'd much rather take my 12 oz sil shelter and be able to cook, read, eat, pee, organize my pack, etc. while i'm waiting out that rainstorm or snowstorm.
I don't think a bivy weighs much less and the disadvantages are extreme.

Tinker
02-28-2009, 00:45
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/253492996JmxEGl

My experience is that it's a viable option for the possibility that you might face inclement weather. The biggest problem, logistically, is getting into and out of the bivy without getting your sleeping gear all wet. You have to wriggle into the bivy with a low condensation-covered ceiling threatening to shower you if you touch it. After doing it a few times, I wouldn't recommend it unless you like bragging about how little you can hike with. As a survival kit, I suppose it will keep you alive, but not especially happy, since there's no room under there to do anything but sleep (or maybe soak up [pun intended] a nice paperback). If you decide to do a zero day, a poncho over a tarp isn't the way you'd want to do it.
Oh, and try unpacking and repacking your pack under a poncho. It isn't easy.
It's basically a go-lighter's weekend novelty shelter.
Using an 8x10 tarp and an ultralight breathable bivy might be a consideration for a very light, useable shelter system.

SunnyWalker
02-28-2009, 01:15
Tinker: So if I consider pursuing this course you would recommend not using the poncho as a tarp, but rather actually get a tarp? (one larger than a poncho?)

bigcranky
02-28-2009, 12:40
I like a larger tarp than a poncho, but then I'm pretty tall.

I use my homemade bivy and a tarp all the time, winter, spring, summer, and fall. The bivy is *not* waterproof -- I can't use it by itself in the rain. It does provide a lot of protection against side splash and misting under the tarp. It has a lot of mesh over the upper body, great against bugs (and mice). See my gallery for several photos.

I would never recommend a Goretex waterproof bivy as a shelter, for all the reasons noted above. But a tarp and breathable bivy combo works pretty well for me. It's a lot like a hammock, actually -- a tarp above a breathable bivy with lots of mesh.

hootyhoo
02-28-2009, 17:30
and am not interested in bivi sack camping with the use of my poncho as a tarp:sun

Did you mean 'and am interested'?
I'm no expert, but I did sleep under a Golite poncho tarp/bivy combo for all my hiking during a 12 month period - 4 seasons in the the Smokies, Citico area. I guess I spent well over 100 nights out that year in all kinds of weather - from bug infested scorching heat, to tarp collapsing snow. I set it up on ridge tops and challenged 40 mile per hour gusts, took it out in the snow, used it the rain. I remember two trips in particular - one I remember as the night of exploding raindrops, and the other was the 9 degree night when Rootball told me I could get in his tent if I called him daddy - I stayed under my poncho and told him to kiss my - you know what. I know there are some pros that claim to be able to do anything with grace and ease, but there are limitations. It takes a little getting used to, but works just fine. Here is some of what I found in no particular order- the half pyramid works great as a poncho setup. Pull the hood up for more room, if possible.You might as well cowboy camp when you don't expect rain. Know how to dress, cook and function in a tight space. I used an OR Advanced bivy to start with, but made a tyvek bottom/dwr top bivy then made a pu coated bottom/dwr top bivy. The OR is bomb proof -but the weight was more than I needed once I realized the poncho would keep me dry-ish. The tyvek bottom was the most breathable, but the pu coated bottom was more secure when on wet ground or on a poorly draining site (it does happen). If you use a tyvek ground sheet on less than flat ground you can slide out from under the poncho during the night. I woke up to wet feet more than once. Bivy adds degrees to bag - in summer a bag is not needed until the wee hours of morning. In winter the condensation can wet your bag. If you are taller than 5'10" a longer tarp is needed. the poncho tarp was 8'8x4'8 (I think). Even a tarp will condensate - and when it does the rain drops will knock the condensation off the tarp and onto your bivy/face/whatever. A side zip on bivy is as useful as one on a sleeping bag, so I would look for that feature. A quilt works better than any sleeping bag I ever tried in a bivy - except when its single digits of course. Snow can be an issue. I don't care how you rig it - there will be angles and snow can pile up and cause sags. Would I thru with one - no. Why not. It would become tiresome to me when I know there are tents available and I am swatting bugs while I try to read. Yeah you can get bug screens and all that, but there's limitations. I have sold my HH and don't miss it. It was nice. The poncho tarp peeks out of the gear closet every once in a while, but I slam the door in his face and put the trusty old Clip Flashlight in my pack and head off for my adventure. It was nice having a light pack for a year with a, sometimes challenging shelter, but I like a little comfort, a little privacy, a little room for error, and a little repreve from the freekin' skeeters. When the wind is howling and the rain is thumping nylon I am in my little tent with a book and a smile on face -- and all my gear is clean the next day.

SunnyWalker
02-28-2009, 21:23
Hootytoo: Does your Clipflashlight have the aluminum poleso or the lighter ones (titanium?)? Also, I was thinking of the REI $90.00 introductory one that is waterproof. It has a bug screen for the face. And then use poncho/tarp. Thanks.

SunnyWalker
02-28-2009, 21:24
Hootytoo, sorry,- when I said the REI one I mean the REI $90.00 bivi sack. There is only one at that price. OK, I will go and look at the model name and all.

SunnyWalker
02-28-2009, 21:29
OK it is a: REI Minimalist Bivy - Long ($99.50). It weighs under two pounds.

Ekul
02-28-2009, 21:30
why not just use the HH as a bivi?

SunnyWalker
02-28-2009, 21:34
On the ground?

Live the Journey
02-28-2009, 21:39
I use the REI minimalist bivy and a homemade 10X8 siltarp and quite enjoy them. Though, I've only had the bivy for a few months, I think for my thru I'll swap it out for a bug bivy or mosquito netting. As a cold sleeper, the bivy adds a nice amount of warmth and the siltarp is lovely for laying out everything, unpacking and re packing camp. You've got a nice big space to work under that's out of the elements...it's really nice for rainy days, because you can put up the tarp first and have a nice big dry space to work under, and if you have to leave in the morning and it's rainy you can have every thing all packed up out from under the rain and then just stuff the tarp and everything stays dry.
For as much as I love using a bivy, I wouldn't think of doing it without a proper tarp. And as for specifics of the minimalist bivy, It's nice and roomy, but I don't ever sleep with it fully zipped. The one time I did I woke up pretty damp, but again, I've only ever used it in cold weather. Invest in a good neck gaitor or Balaclava.

theinfamousj
02-28-2009, 21:40
Also, I was thinking of the REI $90.00 introductory one that is waterproof. It has a bug screen for the face. And then use poncho/tarp.

I have it. It is called the Minimalist Bivy. Probably as heavy as it is thanks to the gazillion zippers on it. I think I last counted six. Not the teeth strips, but the actual zip-pieces. Only one teeth strip. I've not quite figured out what all the zippers are for.

Oh, and in the event of rain, there is nothing to cover the mesh panel (except for your poncho tarp).

I find the bivy cozy and use it when car camping. Other times, I just use my tarp tent.

Live the Journey
02-28-2009, 21:41
for my thru I'll swap it out for a bug bivy or mosquito netting.

...I mean for the warmer weather, that is!!!

Live the Journey
02-28-2009, 21:45
Infamous J...I agree that the number of zippers are a little redundant, but the three different sets of zips on the same rows of teeth are made to allow your arms to be outside of the bivy while you stay inside to do things like start breakfast or pack your pack when it's REALLY cold outside.

theinfamousj
02-28-2009, 21:50
Infamous J...I agree that the number of zippers are a little redundant, but the three different sets of zips on the same rows of teeth are made to allow your arms to be outside of the bivy while you stay inside to do things like start breakfast or pack your pack when it's REALLY cold outside.

Ah ha. I figured there had to be a reason. Thanks!

(Thinking about it further, it does appear that they could have done away with at least one set and used one of the arm pairs as the entry/exit zipper set.)

SunnyWalker
02-28-2009, 21:54
Yeah, I was envisioning using a bivi such as the REI Minimalist which is waterproof with a pnocho (already carrying it anyway) for tarp (to cover face and upper body cuz of rain (mesh opening). I thought the poncho would cover entire body. I'll go outside and set it up and see. Anyway, I guess a larger tarp would be nicer. Thanks for the info. --with my HH, by the time I get all the stuff together to stay warm (not counting the hassle) it seems like the weight advantage is starting to disapear. The REI Minimalist weighs under two pounds. That IS an advantage, yes?

hootyhoo
02-28-2009, 22:43
The Clip Flashlight is about a 2000 model - it has DAC poles I believe. Tent weight is 4 pounds 6 ounces.
The dwr bivy with 70 denier pu coated bottom is very roomy and has a side and foot zip - it weighs 12 ounces. The other homemade bivy with tyvek bottom weighs 8 or 9 ounces. The thing about a bivy is that it really needs to be breathable. Even if it has a large entry opening and a foot vent the fabric that it made of is most important. If you get your waterproof bivy- and remember waterproof is not really necessary if you use a tarp or poncho tarp - but if you get it you might want to test it in he garage with your garage doors open on a really rainy night - that way if you wake up soaking wet you will know that condensation is gonna be a problem and you can send it back. Have you looked at the meteor light bivy - it could not be easier to make - http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/ultralight/myo_Meteor.asp

I am not a huge fan of silnylon on the ground - I would use pu coated for the bottom. But one of these and an 8x10 would be super nice for tarping.

SunnyWalker
02-28-2009, 22:46
Hmmmmm. . . . I have always had condensation problems in tent, HH, etc., but I have never woken up soaking wet? This is not an exageration? Thanks.

Live the Journey
02-28-2009, 23:00
not sure how much your HH weighs, but the clip flashlight is about 3lbs 6oz, right?
My minimalist + tarp +stakes is about 2 pounds even. So you're cutting a pound and some change, and You've got way way more usable space under a tarp (but note that not all people are tarp people...I think the tarp people and bivy people are a dying breed) I like that my tarp/bivy combo works well in lots of situations...If I stay in a shelter I can still use the bivy for added warmth (or if there is rain or snow coming at the shelter in a sideways kind of way) if it's really nice out I can sleep out under the stars, but still use the bivy (and my tarp makes a fabulous pillow, BTW), if it's really warm out you can just use the tarp, and as I said before, I'm a really cold sleeper and it adds a good 10* of comfort to my bag rating.

SunnyWalker
02-28-2009, 23:10
I'm very attracted to the tarp/bivy (and using my poncho). I think I can be comfortable. I am basing this on my experience. AND at the same time reduce pack weight. This has got to be the biggest factor for me.

SunnyWalker
02-28-2009, 23:10
I meam to say, using my poncho as the tarp over the bivy.

Tinker
03-01-2009, 00:54
Tinker: So if I consider pursuing this course you would recommend not using the poncho as a tarp, but rather actually get a tarp? (one larger than a poncho?)

Yes. It's nearly impossible to get into my bivy when I'm under the poncho in a driving rain. Getting out in the middle of the night when I just HAVE to go is challenging, too. Also, if it's pouring down rain outside, you STILL have to have a rain jacket or something similar to do your thing, or become proficient at emptying your bladder into a water bottle while lying on your side. Personally, I think I'd opt for something like the Gatewood cape and the mesh inner tent (which could be used alone as well), and carry the extra few ozs. for more headroom and 360 degree protection. It's almost a given that the wind will change in the middle of a rainstorm as the front passes and the counter-clockwise rotation of the low pressure system changes the wind direction. In a dry location a bivy, even a Gore-tex one will probably "breathe" enough (the "-" means "so-called" in my English usage) to be comfortable in cool weather, but when it gets hot and muggy or rainy you'll probably provide your own weather system inside. I don't think I'd use a down bag inside a bivy for more than a few days at a time as the moisture is sure to build up in the down, making it necessary to dry it each day before packing it. Of course, dampness is a way of life here in New England, and Texas might be a whole different story (my sister moved to Irving with her husband from NC because the dryness is good for his many allergies).

jaywalke
03-01-2009, 11:53
I switched to a bivy and a poncho/tarp many moons ago when I started to cut packweight, and it still has its place. However, I found waterproof bivies to be more trouble that they're worth. The only brand I found that breathed well was Bibler (that fuzzy material really works), but they are both expensive and heavy. If I have to carry a synthetic bag to use a bivy, the weight gain is nullified, so why bother?

Waterproof sacks are still good for their intended purpose: emergency shelter while pushing the limits of climbing or dayhiking. Other than that, I don't bother, so the burden of sheltering falls on the tarp/poncho.

I usually use a sil-shelter and a rectangular bivy by oware with a waterproof bottom, uncoated top and a side zipper. The SS gives me lots of room and good coverage for all of my gear. The bivy acts as groundcloth, and can also be used in shelters or cowboy camping to keep rain spray/dew off my down bag. Total shelter weight is 1.5 pounds. If the weather forecast is good for an overnighter I may tempt fate and rely on the sack and my ID sil-poncho.

If there will be bugs at night, however, (which is not terribly often where I live now) it is very hard to justify carrying anything other than my Tarptent Rainbow (2.25 pounds, lots of room, bug protection)

George
03-01-2009, 13:04
sunnywalker I do not think you found the voice you were looking for until now I have been using nothing but bivies since my kids quit hiking with me mostly on the AT and every time of the year I am up to 5 or 6 from 9oz to 2lb, like tarps and hammocks it's a skills and tuning process. The basic idea of bivies that the posts are missing is breathing outside the bivy they are treating it like a very small tent. use the bivy smart and you will never have condensation/frost on the sleeping bag or in the bivy except for around your mouth even dew on the outside is less than any other sleep system,the fabric stays warmer and the surface area is less I use various down mummies from 40F to -20 ratings and have not had problems getting them wet. Give a time and area on the AT and I will post what combination I would use ( EPA rating- your milage may vary)

George
03-01-2009, 13:10
-

Ekul
03-01-2009, 14:17
On the ground?


yup. two hiking poles and some stakes. still would need a tarp tho. never tried it myself just have heard some others speak of it.

Desert Reprobate
03-01-2009, 14:25
There are pictures on the Hennessey website. I don't know how you would get into it with the bottom entry. With the zipper mod it would work great.

BrianLe
03-01-2009, 15:28
Tinker said:
"Also, if it's pouring down rain outside, you STILL have to have a rain jacket or something similar to do your thing, or become proficient at emptying your bladder into a water bottle while lying on your side. Personally, I think I'd opt for something like the Gatewood cape and the mesh inner tent (which could be used alone as well), and carry the extra few ozs. for more headroom and 360 degree protection."

Emptying bladder in water bottle (okay, I'd rather call it a pee bottle as I wouldn't want to mix 'em ... :-)) --- I don't find that it takes a lot of proficiency, though FWIW I don't do it lying on my side. It's a very useful skill if you're going to use your only rainproof clothing as your shelter at night.

Gatewood cape: note that the real weight savings for that combo come from, again, having your shelter be your raingear. I wouldn't personally favor the Gatewood cape combination as ideal for someone that also wants to carry a separate rain jacket.

What you might do, however, is carry an extra light, thin black yard waste bag. If you have to be out in rain for any length of time while your shelter is up, cut head and arm holes in that for a hasty but surprisingly effective piece of rain gear. I've also used one of these as a poor-man's wind shirt when conditions warranted (and I didn't have an actual wind shirt along).

Wise Old Owl
03-01-2009, 15:52
Sunnywalker,

If you have the HH and Clip flashlight, you will not need a REI minimalist bivy, and after a week in the Canadian woods, with the Bivy others are recommending here I cannot urge you enough not to buy it.

The first night out under the stars was wonderful and a light 65 degrees, the bivy and bag was working very well. I had a good sleep, that first night. The second night was more humid and just under 70 degrees, the humidity changed the REI minimalist bivy into a chicken oven baking bag within half an hour, the increased warm air brought out the mosquito’s in thick clouds. Absolutely I was trapped, the repellent I had was useless and I was feeling like a pin cushion. It was bad, if I had something like a clip I could have slept on top and avoided the drama. Instead I swatted until I fell asleep again.

The third night I doubled up with someone in a small tent as it was again too warm, The fourth night I was back out in the bivy, it was a cool night and then it began to have a downpour, I relocated under a tarp that didn’t drain well, several times I had to get up and knock the water off the collapsing tarp. At one point I rolled on my side and a cupful of cold rain came though the hood and ran down the inside of the bivy, although wet on one side I moved again when the rain stopped to the comfort of the beach sand.

The fifth night I positioned a canoe for better shelter and slept ok under that, I borrowed a 100 percent deet from another camper and that went well, because they were still getting to me thought the head vent. Later I discovered Deep Woods Off works the best.

The sixth night, was fun, It wasn’t raining so I picked a sandy area far from the high grass that the mosquitoes were hanging in, the wind kept them at bay, so at first I was under the bright stars, later the storms came and I had a lightening show that was just awesome, (no tarp)

When I got back I returned the bivy to REI, for these reasons, the lack of breathability, the stupidity of not taking a tarp and additional mosquito nets, (the flipped canoe was great) For the weight, a clip is still a better choice.

Wise Old Owl
03-02-2009, 18:04
After rereading the thead that REI mini bivy would be good in a snow cave.... just saying,

SunnyWalker
03-05-2009, 00:57
Oh man, what stories these are. Thanks everyone. Well I am still interested in it for the weight savings. People I talk to who use the bivy all the time seem to work out these problems. I am going to try it in the back yard first. won't be that humid but it sure gets hot in West Texas. We have mosquitoes the size of 747s so it will be a good test (everying is big in Texas).

Pokey2006
03-05-2009, 02:12
Most of the AT is way too humid and wet for a bivy. If you want to save weight, just use a tarp, and pick up a bug net later on in the summer, when the mosquitoes come out.

I do have a bivy that's kind of like a small one-wall tent. I tested it out once on a summer night, and even with the flap wide open, the condensation was a nightmare. It was a hot, sweaty, damp night. The bivy is good for very cold, dry weather, though. I'd only ever use it for winter camping. For an AT thru-hike, a tarp by itself is far more appropriate.

George
03-05-2009, 19:32
OK from the pm the plan is maine in june + sobo; black fly season may not be over and it is still the rainy season, then heading south you have the dog days of summer, hot nites with little air movement- being that the rest of the gear is light in this season I would go with a 1 person full mesh tent. For black flies you may need to cook, eat, change, bath and sleep in that tent for a couple weeks- hard to do in a shelter, hammock or bivy- the rest of my sleep system would be a 40F down mummy bag and 3/4 pad. At harpers ferry(september) I would swap to a bivy like the OR micronight with a full storm cover and a 20F down bag, by this time the shelters are empty and I would head there for bad weather, for the whole trip I would go for a light rain jacket not a tarp/poncho PS while I use almost only bivies I am mostly only a three season hiker fall,winter and spring

Egads
03-05-2009, 19:54
Sure you can make a bivy work, but there are better solutions

Doctari
03-06-2009, 11:33
I have never been in a Bivy sack. BUT I do sleep in a hammock sock, that is about the same size. I only SLEEP in it, & it's only as a bit of extra protection from the cold (or wind that sneaks past my tarp). I cannot imagine having to stay inside it for hours & hours & hours during a bad storm. I am pretty sure that I would loose what is left of my mind. :eek:
At least with my tarp I can: get up & cook / eat, walk a bit, stretch, SIT UPRIGHT, pee (without getting wet :p )

I have seen the bivy thing done. By a stronger man than I!

kyhipo
03-06-2009, 13:25
I use a bivi sack when I am out lets say a week.But really! comfort tends to mean alot to me anymore.ky

SunnyWalker
03-06-2009, 13:45
Pokey206-that sounds like a good idea also. Use the tarp, pick up a bug net for use later. I am planning a SOBO so If I followed your advice I guess I would do it in reverse?

SunnyWalker
03-06-2009, 13:49
Oh yeah, that Tarp is looking better and better (with bug netting added when needed). Hmmmmmm . . . . . . I am taking notes of all this for reference later. Thanks veryone. Really appreciate it. If I do the At it will be SOBO, if I do the PCT it will be NOBO.

FamilyGuy
03-06-2009, 21:13
Sure you can make a bivy work, but there are better solutions

Not at 10K feet on a ledge.

scope
03-06-2009, 21:51
First of all, don't ditch the hammock. You don't want anything else in warm weather. When it gets cold, I go to the ground with the hammock tarp and that REI bivy. Gives a layer of protection from elements for bag, and perhaps a layer of warmth, too. Never had an issue with bugs when its cold, but have used the mesh overhead and had no problem with it. Zippers are overkill for sure. Its a good value, even though its mostly a glorified sleeping bag cover. Never had any condensation issues either. The bivy is light enough to keep in your pack and use as needed along with your hammock.

SunnyWalker
03-06-2009, 22:15
Thank you Scope. I won't ditch the HH. I figure in the very warm weather I can make it work.

High Life
03-06-2009, 22:29
my first time and only time in a bivy , was with a MHW conduit bivy and a used EMS synthetic 0 degree bag. I hiked up to liberty springs campsite getting there after nightfall
the care taker saw me on the tent platform collected his fee and then said " i hope you're still here in the morning. later that night it rained and then flash freezed
and in the morning i was covered in thin a layer of ice, but was warm and dry ..
it was fun , i dont think i'd do it again , i've growed used to my hubba
THE END

Egads
03-07-2009, 00:34
Not at 10K feet on a ledge.

None of those on the AT

Pokey2006
03-07-2009, 00:53
Pokey206-that sounds like a good idea also. Use the tarp, pick up a bug net for use later. I am planning a SOBO so If I followed your advice I guess I would do it in reverse?

Yes, SunnyWalker, that's what I would recommend. Like others have said, going SOBO in June you'll have to do more than just sleep inside your shelter. A tarp and bug net combo would allow you the greatest room and freedom to do your chores without being eaten alive. When the bugs taper off, you could lose the bug net.

I don't see why you would need a bivy if you have a regular tarp. It would just be added weight. Instead, bring a good ground cloth to protect your bag from dirt and rain splash. Those lightweight emergency blankets or just trash bags work great.

FamilyGuy
03-07-2009, 01:09
None of those on the AT

Never said there was. Re-read the quote I was responding to.

SunnyWalker
04-01-2009, 22:51
I just think that with a bivy I would have much much more opportunityt to stealth camp while on and off the trail. You have to admit, the HH is great, but it could limit my choices. Same with a tent. I mean, comon look at it-bivy has to stakes, no ropes, just put it down and crawl in. This could be done in some last minute spots, beautiful spots others with the HH and/or tent cannot use, and etc.

Tipi Walter
04-02-2009, 08:02
Sunnywalker,

If you have the HH and Clip flashlight, you will not need a REI minimalist bivy, and after a week in the Canadian woods, with the Bivy others are recommending here I cannot urge you enough not to buy it.

The first night out under the stars was wonderful and a light 65 degrees, the bivy and bag was working very well. I had a good sleep, that first night. The second night was more humid and just under 70 degrees, the humidity changed the REI minimalist bivy into a chicken oven baking bag within half an hour, the increased warm air brought out the mosquito’s in thick clouds. Absolutely I was trapped, the repellent I had was useless and I was feeling like a pin cushion. It was bad, if I had something like a clip I could have slept on top and avoided the drama. Instead I swatted until I fell asleep again.

The third night I doubled up with someone in a small tent as it was again too warm, The fourth night I was back out in the bivy, it was a cool night and then it began to have a downpour, I relocated under a tarp that didn’t drain well, several times I had to get up and knock the water off the collapsing tarp. At one point I rolled on my side and a cupful of cold rain came though the hood and ran down the inside of the bivy, although wet on one side I moved again when the rain stopped to the comfort of the beach sand.

The fifth night I positioned a canoe for better shelter and slept ok under that, I borrowed a 100 percent deet from another camper and that went well, because they were still getting to me thought the head vent. Later I discovered Deep Woods Off works the best.

The sixth night, was fun, It wasn’t raining so I picked a sandy area far from the high grass that the mosquitoes were hanging in, the wind kept them at bay, so at first I was under the bright stars, later the storms came and I had a lightening show that was just awesome, (no tarp)

When I got back I returned the bivy to REI, for these reasons, the lack of breathability, the stupidity of not taking a tarp and additional mosquito nets, (the flipped canoe was great) For the weight, a clip is still a better choice.

This post brings up alot of the issues when using ultralight shelter systems, the main one being this statement: "I doubled up with someone in a small tent." There's nothing worse than using a bivy sac in the summer in moist conditions(heavy dew or rain)when the mosquitos are buzzing and biting. It's clammy and hot, there's no escape from the hateful buzzing, and yet you've got to cover your head.

I spent the winter of '80 in a bivy by itself and the winter of '81 in a bivy with a tarp and here's the report: Get A Tent. First off, I was in the mountains of NC and frequently got walloped by blizzards and subzero temps, and always woke up covered in snow. But in a way, I think bivvies were designed with cold and snow in mind--much easier to deal with than rain. But as several have already said, bivvies are impossible to live in, you can't cook, store gear, sit out a storm for 2 days, light a candle and read, or get out of the wind. A shelter should be a refuge, not an imprisoning struggle. And if you don't like the feel of being all zipped up in a down bag, you'l hate the constriction of that same bag wrapped up in a bivy sac.


I just think that with a bivy I would have much much more opportunityt to stealth camp while on and off the trail. You have to admit, the HH is great, but it could limit my choices. Same with a tent. I mean, comon look at it-bivy has to stakes, no ropes, just put it down and crawl in. This could be done in some last minute spots, beautiful spots others with the HH and/or tent cannot use, and etc.

This is very true and so the allure of the bivy sac. There are a million more sleeping spots with a bivy in the woods than tent spots, just curl up under a laurel bush and go to sleep. Problem is, it rains. And sleets. And sometimes does this for 3 or 4 days in the winter. . . butt cold rain.

One time I was in the Conehead forest and too lazy to find a spot to put my tent and saw a thick clump of rhododendron along some level ground. I crawled in with my pack during daylight about 100 feet and found the perfect bivy site for sleeping. Deep inside the rhodo thicket. Crystal blue sky.

At 11 pm I looked up at the star studded black sky thru the laurel and felt good about it. At 3 am a gully washing rain deluge hit and my face and neck was admitting water and the bivy wasn't going to keep my down bag dry, so in a rush I grapped my mini-mag and quickly loaded up my gear and fought my way thru the rhodo in the dark. I had to crawl out on my belly with my pack on my back as the rhodo was too thick almost to exit. What fun. I finally reached the trail and scurried off to find a tent site.

I'm sort of surprised no one has mentioned the BIVY TENTS. They are tiny tents with a tiny foot hoop and a slightly larger head hoop--North Face used to make one called the June Bug, etc. Many solo tents nowadays are just large bivy tents, but I haven't heard people talk much of the 1980s style genuine bivy tents of old.

BrianLe
04-02-2009, 14:28
Bivy tent: you could consider the Nemo Gogo Bivy
http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/product/product.asp/imanf/Nemo/idesc/Gogo+Bivy/Store/MG/item/112682/N/992

I'm pretty sure this is what an acquiantance used to thru-hike the PCT last year, and it really does come across as a hybrid between bivy and tent. You can't sit up in it but I imagine you can lean on an elbow. More importantly it keeps the bivy fabric from sitting on top of you, eliminating some of the worst aspects of a bivy.

I didn't crawl into it or anything, but it's small. It's not, IMO, particularly light, however, given that my tarptent contrail weighs a bit less and offers a ton more room, albeit requiring a bigger footprint to pitch.

If something like this could be done with the efficient weight savings of a tarptent, i.e., if a person could save a proportional amount of weight as well as have a reduced footprint, I could see this as an interesting option.

Tipi Walter
04-02-2009, 17:17
BrianLe--
Yeah, I'd say the Nemo would qualify as a bivy tent, as would the second fotog:

SunnyWalker
04-02-2009, 23:40
Ohhhhh ya, TipiWalter, I think I got carried away there momentarily by visions of granduer. However, I think that the answer for me would be to utilize a box and mail the bivy on when I am not needing it and revert to the HH and etc. I don't see myself right now carrying the Clip Flashlight on an extended trip. I would be either the HH and/or Bivy. Make sense?

Dogwood
04-03-2009, 05:28
I have a Clip Flashlight, HH and am not interested in bivi sack camping with the use of my poncho as a tarp. I notice there are no articles on this subject. Anyone know where I can go to see advice, experience, etc. I have found mainly reviews of different bivi sacks. Would rather read expeirences with bivi and all. Am wanting to use this on a thru hike on AT. Here are some question: In summer is it pretty warm and hot in a bivy? Anyo9ne recommend a sleeping bag BASED ON EXPERIENCE in a bivi over others? I was thnking thinking that a synthetic would be better to then handle the moisture buildup that might (will) happen. Thanks one and all. -Oh, am thinking the Bivi weighs (I might be committing mortal sin here) LESS than the HH! then of course I will use a big Agnes air mattress. Thanks one and all.:sun

I have a full 20 oz coffee in front of me so here goes.
The REI Minimalist is not a bad entry level bivy(the price, easy availability, REI label, and REI's no hassel return policey is what often attracts folks), but if you use it on the AT during heavy rain use it with something like a tarp or cape/poncho. It's not the most breathable bivy(despite inquiring several times about REI's proprietary membrane I still haven't got my questions answered) and you will have to take that into account when employing it in humid rainy or hot weather, like on an AT thru-hike, and when choosing a sleeping bag to pair it with. The bivy will add 5*, maybe more, of warmth to your sleep set-up. Fully enclosing yourself up in any bivy is going to make you feel warmer(*See more about doing that below). I almost always use down bags with my bivies. Have had no problems with the down if I keep the sleeping bag dry. Starts to defeat my wt. saving agenda or desire for the most breathable set-up I can find if I need to start using a heavier synthetic or heavy protective (WP) fabric cover on my sleeping bag. However I will pair a down bag with a Pertex Quantum cover with a bivy. Not everyone does it like me though.
I know there are bivytents on the market. I've considered them as shelters in the past. But, from what I've explored these type shelters are still heavier than the lightest bivies, tarps, or tarp/bivy combos and are somewhat claustrophic versions of tents.
Most hikers are attracted to the bivy concept because thay can be very low wt., low volume to pack, and/or provide a sleeping concept that appeals to them. These are the reasons why I bivy or bivy/tarp. Just like any other piece of gear, approach, or technique is not right for all people all the time bivies or bivy/tarp combos may not be the best for everyone all the time. If you want to explore some of these avenues and how I think bivies or bivy/tarp combos may be used in a wt saving fashion on an AT thru-hike read on, but if you want the simplest very light wt.(UL) solo shelters begin by checking out Henry Shires tarptents, Gossamer Gear(The One), and Six Moon Desigms Lunar Solo.
First, it needs to be realized there are differently designed bivies intended for different uses and hiking arrangements - no different than tents. Bivies are made with different features and fabrics. There are bivies designed for the climbing crowd, alpinists, best in dry cold snow conditions, ones that have some level of water resistance(WR) and meant to be employed with some kind of other shelter, such as a tarp or a cape, in persistant nasty(wet) weather, and fully waterproof(WP) bivies that can act as stand alone shelters in even quite harsh weather. And some bivies blur the lines of trying to place them in one specific category. For example, some of the overbags, made by RAB or MontBell or the stand alone bivies made by Integral Designs, Black Diamond, and Bibler, etc can be used in an assortment of configurations or conditions.
I am aware of WR bivies that weigh as little as 6oz. The wt. goes up from there for WR bivies. There are fully WP bivies that weigh as little as 10-11 oz and go up to and probably surpass the 3 lb mark. Since we're mainly discussing bivy use on the AT I'm not going to get into bivies specifically designed for climbing, but remember there is some crossover on how one may choose to employ a bivy. And, there is some debate about what is truely WP and what is merely WR. In the WR bivy category I think the Momentum and Pertex fabrics/DWRs(Durable Water Repellants) strike up a great combination of water resistance and breathabilty, although there are many fabrics/DWRs, proprietary technologies, proprietary fabrics, etc that are available and I certainly have not tried them all. In the fully WP bivy category I think nothing beats the combination of full WPness and breathabilty under the widest range of conditions as Event technology. There are many other bivies employing other useable WP fabrics though.
I see many people bringing up condensation issues with bivies. Sure, condensation can occur in bivies. But, I think this happens mainly, not only, but mainly, because people breathe into fully enclosed shelters when they don't have a way to expel the water vapor in their breath effectively to the outside or the bivy/sleeping bag starts to not breath effectively enough(there is a whole lot more that can be looked at about this condition and how it occurs). In my use with bivies, most of the condensation can be eliminated inside the bivy by exhaling through a mesh window(not all bivies have a mesh window though) or using a bivy with an overlapping hood like some of the Bibler/Black Diamond or Integral Designs models or simply not totally enclosing oneself up in a windowless hoodless bivy. I'm not a big fan of waking up drenched or frozen like a popsickle inside a coffin either!
In hiking locations and conditions where prolonged or heavy rain or where it may become humid occur, like during typical AT thru-hiking season months, and one wants to explore employing a bivy, you need to take these factors into account. Some shelter suggestions based on reducing wt, which I assume is high on the OP's priority list, that I offer are: a fully WP bivy that is highly breathable, like one made from Event, a highly breathable WR bivy/tarp combo, or a tarp/groundcloth combo that provides sufficient coverage in inclement weather. I don't know how the OP feels about shelters along the AT, but perhaps, he could do something like camp with a smallish UL tarp/highly breathable WR bivy combo under light rain and when he perhaps has had enough of sleeping that way hit a few nights in a shelter under the worst of weather conditions. If you were really up-to-date on reading the weather you may even get away with employing a highly breathable highly WR bivy as shelter most of the time and sleeping in an AT shelter in the worst weather. Another option, if you were a gram weenie and finely tuned into upcoming weather, is to do the tarp/bivy combo when rain was in the forecast and then priority ship the tarp not too far up the trail to be used in case of bad weather in the future. Or you could just tarp it with a tarp and groundcloth that provided adequate coverage. Lots of ways to play it depending on you. All depends on how deep you want to get into this!
Now, are you beginning to understand why bivying or tarping in very wet weather or buggy conditions where the idea of minimizing wt. is a very high priority sometimes requires more experience or at least thinking about things in a sometimes more complex or at least different way than simply hauling a tent or hammock or sleeping in an AT shelter? Sometimes the wt savings of doing these things isn't great enough or high enough of a priority for some people to change how they do things or simply people have found a different way that they think works best for them.
Why would I personally go through any of this? A question that I'm sure is on some minds. First, I am a gram weenie. I have not found a shelter system that is lighter wt than the lightest wt bivy or bivy/tarp combo. I typically carry a 7 oz Momentum bivy/7 oz. 7.5 ft x 9 ft. Spinnaker tarp combo as my primary means of solo shelter. Although, the tarp size easily allows two to sleep comfortably underneath it. With the tarp/bivy combo I could actually employ a smaller lighter solo tarp. The bivy has a mesh window so I can zip it up all the way if need be and still keep condensation to a minimum, but keep bugs out. If I'm aware that weather is going to be fair for an extended period I can priority ship the tarp ahead while hiking most of America's long distance hiking trails. Or if I want I can just go with the tarp and a UL groundcloth. If skeeters or gnats are really an issue I have a 2.5 oz Tulle fabric bug enclosure or a Sea to Summit headnet I can employ with the tarp. With my 11 oz Event bivy that's often all I need as a shelter under all but the wettest conditions if I take the time to carefully choose a campsite. I also employ the Event bivy for some climbing treks. I can also employ a warmer rated temp. and a lighter wt. sleeping bag with a bivy. Options. Options. Options. I don't get these options, or what some would define as hassels, with one of my tents or my hammock. And, all these options are UL and take up little volume in or on my pack. See the wt. saving snowball affect taking place?
Secondly, bivying allows for a cowboy style type hike. It allows me to camp in places and under conditions that I couldn't with a tent or hammock. I have slept at the base of waterfalls, behind waterfalls, in small caves, under small overhangs, on cliff faces, on the edges of cliffs, literally, on the trail, on small islands and large flat rocks in the middle of streams and rivers, wedged in between rocks on tops of mountains, on small flat hillsides, on arches, in groves of trees or bushes, etc. that I couldn't with a tent. The muted colors and small footprint of a bivy allows me to stealth camp in places that would amaze some people if they knew I was there. Camping this way increases my sense of adventure and self sufficiency. Bivying allows me to feel more of a connection with the trail and the wilderness. The walls come down and I feel as though I'm not merely hiking through the wilderness. I've become a part of it! If you want to know another hikers opinion why he bivies read some of JAK's post here on WB
Even though I use a bivy or bivy/tarp as my primary means of shelter as often as I can. I also own several tents(single and double walled), tarps(Spinnaker, SilNylon, Cuben), a Hennesey Hammock, and, again, the two bivies. I'll ditch the bivy if I feel I need to. Each one of these shelters have their time and place and I've employed all of them at one time or another.

Egads
04-03-2009, 13:01
too much coffee

My 2 cents - a good tarp, groundsheet, and properly selected campsite is more than enough coverage, except when show is involved.

BrianLe
04-03-2009, 14:07
Dogwood said:
"But, I think this happens mainly, not only, but mainly, because people breathe into fully enclosed shelters when they don't have a way to expel the water vapor in their breath effectively to the outside or the bivy/sleeping bag starts to not breath effectively enough(there is a whole lot more that can be looked at about this condition and how it occurs)."


The times I most recall condensation issues inside a bivy I didn't have it closed up, just pulled up to my chest with my shoulders and head entirely out of the bivy, i.e., it definitely wasn't my breath that caused it. And this was with a very light bivy, too. I own two of them, but more recent experience has been with a poncho tarp and a 6.4 oz Oware DWR/silnylon bivy.

I think the amount of condensation from the body itself has to vary quite a bit based on ambient weather conditions (heat, humidity, maybe wind ...) as well as the metabolism and maybe other per-individual characteristics of the person inside.

For the stingiest gram weenie, my inclination would be the poncho tarp route, either separate pieces (poncho tarp plus either bivy or solo bug net shelter), or the similar Gatewood cape with bug net shelter inside.

For someone considering a traditional bivy, my thought is that unless a person needs to absolutely minimize their "footprint" (space needed to sleep), or they're sleeping in 4-season situations where a sufficiently bomb-proof 4-season tent is a lot heavier, I'd be inclined to a tent instead.

Turtlehiker
04-03-2009, 15:35
Dogwood, I think you really need to cut back on the Coffee! Whew it made me tired just reading that.
Ok now my turn,
I have used a tarp/bivy combination for the last several years. I have 3 sacks:
First one is a bibler winter bivy, basically just a epic bag with a zipper across the chest. I use this in the winter, duh, in my Kiva to protect my sleeping bag from snow and to add warmth. It has no mesh but only weighs 9oz. I also bring it on hikes where the plan is to stay in shelters.
Next is a Black diamond Lightsabre, more of a bivy tent. You can't sit in it and getting dressed can be a challenge This one is great in winter, spring, summer and fall. It has mesh that can be unzipped down to about waist level. If I need to I can bring my pack and shoes inside with me.
Third is the OR Bug Bivy, it is just a mesh bivy with a waterproof floor. It is nice in the summer when the bugs are bad although I would like it better if it held the mesh up off my body. I will use it in shelters and under a tarp.

I always bring a tarp, either a 5x8 or an 8x10 it is the tarp that make a bivy liveable.

Anyway what I like about the bivy/tarp combo is the versitility.
My lightest is the 5x8 tarp and the winter bivy like 20oz with stakes. With this set up I can use bivy alone, Tarp alone, Bivy inside shelter, Bivy inside shelter with tarp as wind break, I can pull out the tarp at lunch breaks.
I like the multipurpose idea and I feel more in contact with my environment, nothing like having something sniff your ear in the middle of the night. Yeah that was a little startling.
Both of my fabric bivys are made of Epic, and are not mosquito proof dang bugers bite right thru the fabric.

Dogwood
04-03-2009, 15:50
BrianLe, I hear you. Like I said, condensation can also occur inside a bivy when the bivy/sleeping bag doesn't breath well enough. That's what you, and I, have experienced. This can happen for several reasons. For example, if the sleeping bag, bivy, your clothes are damp or wet, or there has been three days of rain and it's near 100 % humidity, or there is wind driven rain. But, basically I think it comes down to water vapor not being expelled fast enough. It is also the reason, that given the parameters of carrying the lightest wt. shelter, knowing that heavy prolonged rain was possible, that I didn't want to sleep in AT shelters, and that I wasn't ready to do some of those things I mentioned above, I would opt for a simpler far less complex UL shelter like I mentioned above for an AT thru-hike. There becomes a pt., even in my sometimes caffeine included(yeah, you're right Egads) complex world, that simpler is better. I wouldn't want to thru-hike the AT doing it the whole way under the conditions mentioned above using a bivy as my only means of shelter, but I know some who have. I think a bivy makes more sense on the PCT or on dry cold snowy sections of the CDT, for example.

Egads
04-03-2009, 17:54
Commenting on the condensation issues with a bivy; I have weighed at bedtime and again the next morning after rising (before piss) and have lost up to 2.6 lbs overnight. This accounts for the condensation inside a bivy.(This is a weight watchers digital scale and repeatable to 0.1 lb on multiple weighings.)

This is due to either a huge caloric burn during wild sex or just the water evaporation thru breath and pores. I wish it were the former reason.

BrianLe
04-03-2009, 20:05
Turtlehiker said:
"I like the multipurpose idea and I feel more in contact with my environment, nothing like having something sniff your ear in the middle of the night."

Last month I hiked a few days in the Grand Canyon with friends who thought I was a bit crazy going with just a light bivy (plus poncho that I never deployed). It was, btw, a bit of a PITA due to wind that I think my tent-bound friends experienced less than I, but worthwhile overall.

Apart from seeing shooting stars and so forth, I had a ring-tail jump onto me in the wee hours of one morning. Ring-tails are housecat-sized relatives of racoons, and I had heard reports of them curling up with sleeping campers in that area. Unfortunately I reacted with some violence when it hopped up onto me --- I immediately afterwards wished I could have repressed the reaction to see if it would curl up. Part of my reaction was perhaps that of a gear-addict concerned about his expensive sleeping bag under animal claws, but there was no damage.

Anyway, yes --- it can be great to be more directly in touch with our surroundings, though where I typically hike in my native WA state either rain or dew fall prevents much in the way of cowboy camping!

Dogwood
04-04-2009, 00:44
Commenting on the condensation issues with a bivy; I have weighed at bedtime and again the next morning after rising (before piss) and have lost up to 2.6 lbs overnight. This accounts for the condensation inside a bivy.(This is a weight watchers digital scale and repeatable to 0.1 lb on multiple weighings.)

This is due to either a huge caloric burn during wild sex or just the water evaporation thru breath and pores. I wish it were the former reason.

2.6 lbs. overnight? We should be marketing bivies to those that want to lose wt.? Egads, if that all came from sweat/perspiration you are a sweat hog.

SunnyWalker
04-09-2009, 00:11
Dogwood: After reading your post I am more sold on using a bivy than ever. Thanks for the input. I can see how breatheable fabric is really essential.

Shutterbug
04-09-2009, 13:01
Yeah, I was envisioning using a bivi such as the REI Minimalist which is waterproof with a pnocho (already carrying it anyway) for tarp (to cover face and upper body cuz of rain (mesh opening). I thought the poncho would cover entire body. I'll go outside and set it up and see. Anyway, I guess a larger tarp would be nicer. Thanks for the info. --with my HH, by the time I get all the stuff together to stay warm (not counting the hassle) it seems like the weight advantage is starting to disapear. The REI Minimalist weighs under two pounds. That IS an advantage, yes?

I used the REI Minimalist last summer on a trip to the Goatrocks Wilderness. Here is a picture:

http://picasaweb.google.com/shutterbug.dave/GoatRocksWilderness#5241849075734400354

The temperature dropped down into the 20's. When I woke up in the morning, there was frost on the outside of the bivy. I stayed comfortable and warm.

It did not rain during my trip, so I don't have actual experience in using the bivy when it is raining. My plan was to use my poncho for protection if I needed it.

I tried to imagine how I would set up camp in a driving rain without getting my sleeping bag wet. It would be hard.

As you can see from the picture, I used a tyvek ground sheet to avoid putting the bivy directly on the ground.

I prefer to use a hammock, so I will be using the bivy only on hikes where I can't count on using my hammock -- camping above the tree line. If heavy rain is anticipated, I will opt for a tent.

middle to middle
04-09-2009, 15:18
I have used several bivi"s and had condensation problems in all, that was 15 yrs ago maybe gortex has improved ? Maybe i am a prolific night sweater ?
I switched to just a 10x10 tarp and am happy with that.
On occasion with tarp have to re adjust for wind and rain shifts but that is ok.
T

Egads
04-09-2009, 18:15
2.6 lbs. overnight? We should be marketing bivies to those that want to lose wt.? Egads, if that all came from sweat/perspiration you are a sweat hog.

Oink oink...or just a high metabolism. I am not overweight and do not sweat much except during exertion or when our down comforter at home is too much for the conditions.

SunnyWalker
04-09-2009, 23:29
Shutterbug: thanks for the photo and comment. Neat story. Sounds like you had a great time. I thought on a tarp I could just "nail" down one end of my poncho to the ground and use my hiking poles to keep the other end up off the ground 18 inches. Then scoot the bivy under and wala.

Reid
04-09-2009, 23:57
I don't have time to read through all the post to see if anyone has mentioned it but an intresting design that MLD has incorporated is having the bottom cinch closed instead of being sewn shut. This allows for complete ventalation and any bivy I use in the future MUST have this.

SunnyWalker
09-18-2009, 01:00
I really appreciate all the info here and don't worry about the coffee! My trend has been: Started with Clip flashlight, to HH and now am interested in Bivy with tarp. I am thinking if I try to use bivy on AT I'll then go Northbound.

QUESTION:

SunnyWalker
09-18-2009, 01:06
Sorry hit a wrong button. Here is my QUESTION for you tried and true bivy users: If you set up your bivy in grass, what about chiggers? Do you use a little ground cloth or something? Spray the grass? (Ha, ha), don't worry about the little buggers (pun in tended), never a problem, what about it? Thanks.

brooklynkayak
09-18-2009, 09:25
I have used several bivi"s and had condensation problems in all, that was 15 yrs ago maybe gortex has improved ? Maybe i am a prolific night sweater ?
I switched to just a 10x10 tarp and am happy with that.
On occasion with tarp have to re adjust for wind and rain shifts but that is ok.
T

There are a lot of highly breathable bivys out there. Goretex is not highly breathable and will accumulate condensation. I use a net tent under my tarp. It catches most spalsh water and of course is highly breathable,

Momentum, Pertex and other fabrics are not waterproof, but repel splash and are highly breathable.
A bivy made out of one of these materials under a big 8x10 or 10x10 tarp gives you more room than most backpacking tents. Keep your gear inside, hang clothes to dry and do chores. An ultralight bivy and big silnylon tarp weighs less than 1.5 lbs.

A picture of a fair weather pitch so you can see my bug tent inside of the 8x10 tarp that I purchased from Reid.
http://picasaweb.google.com/brooklynkayak/Backpack090709?authkey=Gv1sRgCLO2qYrR-My91AE#5379859664458715346

Some examples that would be good under a tarp:
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/index.php?cPath=22&osCsid=f555e2277db3a3892b293084c4108f0a

Captn
09-18-2009, 11:55
Ti Goat sells a great DWR Bivy as well as Oware-usa.

I used a tarp, quilt, and DWR bivy for years .... it's a great solution.

I prefer one with a full netting hood myself.

The Bivy keeps splash off your quilt/bag but it also keeps condensation that is common with single wall shelters, like a buttoned down tarp, off you and your quilt/bag.

The Gatewood cape with a Bivy is a better solution, in my opinion, but to each their own .... just carry a 1 oz emergency poncho in case you need rain gear and a tent.

A light DWR bivy should be under 8 oz, a decent sil poncho tarp under 11 oz, a 20 degree quilt under 22 oz ....

brooklynkayak
09-18-2009, 13:26
The Gatewood cape with a Bivy is a better solution, in my opinion, but to each their own .... just carry a 1 oz emergency poncho in case you need rain gear and a tent. ....

Good idea about carrying an extra poncho.

I've used the Gatewood Cape with the net tent and I can fit me in my net tent, all my gear and boots inside the cape with room to spare, surprisingly roomy.
I know it is bombproof as I used it in a gail.
You want use all the tie downs and pitch close to the ground in such conditions..

I do need to spend more time in it to see if I prefer it over the larger flat tarp, but my initial impressions are good.

Captn
09-19-2009, 10:07
Good idea about carrying an extra poncho.

I've used the Gatewood Cape with the net tent and I can fit me in my net tent, all my gear and boots inside the cape with room to spare, surprisingly roomy.
I know it is bombproof as I used it in a gail.
You want use all the tie downs and pitch close to the ground in such conditions..

I do need to spend more time in it to see if I prefer it over the larger flat tarp, but my initial impressions are good.

I found it a lot warmer when it drops below freezing ... windproof as they come when used with the Bivy.

I used a 32 degree bag in my MYOG DWR bivy, in the Gatewood cape, down to 20 degrees with a 20 MPH wind once. My toes got a little cold so I put my feet in a black trashbag I was using as a packliner, down in the foot of the bag, and was toasty the rest of the night.

Knocking off the frost in the morning because I forgot my gloves was the worst of the whole experience.

SunnyWalker
09-19-2009, 21:20
What about in the Summer time and those nasty Chiggers? Anyone?

bigcranky
09-20-2009, 08:41
In the summer I use a hammock. Just sayin'.

Heater
09-20-2009, 09:35
In the summer I use a hammock. Just sayin'.

You sleep in a bivy... in your hammock? :confused:

That's just dumb. :rolleyes:

BrianLe
09-20-2009, 11:02
Chiggers (or any other bugs) in the summer: SMD makes a net tent (http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=55) designed to work with (attach inside) the Gatewood Cape. I too plan an AT attempt (2010), and will start with a GC and an Oware light bivy. Around Pearisburg I'm thinking I'll mail the bivy home to swap for the net tent --- I'm starting somewhere around late February and don't expect a lot of bugs before Pearisburg. If so, the Oware drawcord bivy does have bug mesh at the top.

All that said, if the more constrained amount of room inside the SMD net tent "bugs" me too much, I'll instead swap for my Contrail plus some sort of very (maybe very very ...) lightweight raingear.

bigcranky
09-20-2009, 13:25
You sleep in a bivy... in your hammock? :confused:

That's just dumb. :rolleyes:


Um, right. Sure. Whatever you say.

Captn
09-20-2009, 20:22
What about in the Summer time and those nasty Chiggers? Anyone?

Oh ... I sterilize the area first with a Ultralight Flamethrower. The fuel bottle's a PITA to carry, however.

Seriously,

Here in Texas you really can't do a lot of backpacking at the lower elevations until November .... and I wait until we have one night where the low temps drop below 42 to kill all the nasty buggers off.

In the summer I tend to go above 7000 ft where it still gets cold at night ...

With that said .... the Bivy kept the little buggers at bay, then permethrin on your clothes and deet on exposed skin ....

But I prefer to avoid the little buggers

CowHead
09-21-2009, 10:04
I'm going to used that bivy in october, just to test the system out, found a mountain hardware bivy at a goodwell store a few weeks ago.

Danielsen
07-15-2010, 09:29
Pertex is reported to not be fully waterproof but I've been using an Outdoor Research Micronight bivy for a little while and it's kept rain off me twice so far. Once was just a light rain in the wee hours of the morning but the other was a full-on thunderstorm downpour. I woke up about an hour into it and the inner surface of the pertex membrane felt very slightly damp. That was all, after at least an hour of heavy downpour. I was impressed. Storms rarely last much longer than that around here anyways, and it cleared up shortly after that. My friend next to me got wetter in his tent. :D Then again, it was a pretty cheap tent...

I've never had major problems with condensation, despite being a sweaty sleeper, but if it's warm I'll generally leave as much open as possible and most times I've used it it's been pretty chilly out. Haven't used it on any really hot nights.

I've usually used a Hennessy on wilderness backpacking trips but the appeal of the bivy for me is the versatility and low profile. I've used it successfully in a number of stealth situations (some urban). The dull gray color of the bivy is helpful for that as well.