View Full Version : Realistic miles at the start from Springer
Gator 65
03-03-2009, 12:36
What is a realistic time frame to hit Neels Gap from Springer? I would like to start out with just 6-8 miles for the 1st two or three weeks to get into trail shape but from what I am reading that appears to be low mileage. I figure four and a half days to Neel's Gap is sufficient. Am I cutting myself short?
On the 4th day at 8 MPD. That means no approach trail. If you do the approach trail, on the 5th day.
I'm 2 years younger than you and I was at Neel Gap last year at 8:00 A.M. on the 3rd morning. But, I had worked out for 4-5 months before leaving on my hike and knew my limits. If you're in reasonably good condition you should be able do something similar. If you haven't reached that level as yet you may want to take it slower. In fact, it's better to start out slow and build up as you go. Within 2-3 weeks you should have your trail legs and feet under you.
Happy hiking. :sun
I think it should depends mostly on how much weight you are carrying.
Total weight on feet, including lean body mass, body fat, clothing, gear, food, water.
All this relative to your height squared.
This folks should all travel roughly the same distance per day, given equal overall fitness.
5'0" carrying 139 pounds total weight on feet.
5'4" carrying 158 pounds total weight on feet.
5'8" carrying 178 pounds total weight on feet.
6'0" carrying 200 pounds total weight on feet.
If you are 25% heavier than average, you will likely travel at most 80% the average distance.
If you are 25% lighter than average, you will likely travel at least 125% the average distance.
Blissful
03-03-2009, 12:56
I think it should depends mostly on how much weight you are carrying.
Total weight on feet, including lean body mass, body fat, clothing, gear, food, water.
All this relative to your height squared.
This folks should all travel roughly the same distance per day, given equal overall fitness.
5'0" carrying 139 pounds total weight on feet.
5'4" carrying 158 pounds total weight on feet.
5'8" carrying 178 pounds total weight on feet.
6'0" carrying 200 pounds total weight on feet.
If you are 25% heavier than average, you will likely travel at most 80% the average distance.
If you are 25% lighter than average, you will likely travel at least 125% the average distance.
Wow now here's someone who has really thought it all out!! ;)
I'm 2 years younger than you and I was at Neel Gap last year at 8:00 A.M. on the 3rd morning. But, I had worked out for 4-5 months before leaving on my hike and knew my limits. If you're in reasonably good condition you should be able do something similar. If you haven't reached that level as yet you may want to take it slower. In fact, it's better to start out slow and build up as you go. Within 2-3 weeks you should have your trail legs and feet under you.
Happy hiking. :sun
It takes closer to 5 weeks before you get your trail legs. You'll know when you get them, you turn into a hiking machine :banana
Wow now here's someone who has really thought it all out!! ;)Yeah but I still got the math wrong. :)
If you are 25% lighter than average, you should travel 133% the average distance, not 125%.
Gator 65
03-03-2009, 13:29
I appreciate the input. I did the approach trail last October in about 7-8 hours but I am in much better shape and refined my pack to a full five days of food and I am at exactly 30 lbs with a 3 liter bladder rather than the 35 lbs I took up the approach trail.
The terain maps show it as a fairly level hike until you get to Blood Mountain. Thanks again.
Rough equivalents for 5'8" tall person...
135 pounds total weight x 20 miles per day
150 pounds total weight x 18 miles per day
180 pounds total weight x 15 miles per day
225 pounds total weight x 12 miles per day
270 pounds total weight x 10 miles per day
I'm an old guy who got the hiking bug three years ago.
Like you, I polled the forum for probable mileage and came up with 10 miles per day as a good estimate of an attainable average.
TILT!!
I had no idea. 5 to 7 was more like it. It took me 4 1/2 days to reach Neels Gap. I almost quit at Woody gap, but no one would pick me up hitching. After an hour I got a second wind
You have already hiked the area, so your estimates are probably more accurate than mine were.
In my opinion, it's more important to to take "small bites" that you can enjoy than it is to crank out miles to talk about later. As Jessie told me then, there are lots of places to get off the trail in that area, just go and see what happens
It takes closer to 5 weeks before you get your trail legs. You'll know when you get them, you turn into a hiking machine :banana
I heard a reaonably accurate ( I think ) formula for figuring how long till "trail legs kick in": for a 20 year old in average health = 3 weeks, then add 1 week per decade over that. At 54, I'm just starting to be able to keep same pace on slight hills (like the ones on the smokies ridges) as I do on level ground. As I have only hiked a max of 3 weeks I can't say wether or not it is actually true, but basce on my exp. Yea, I see it being at least close to true.
In 97, with a weight of OVER 65 Lbs I did Springer to Neils in about 4 days
11 Am at Springer - 3 PM Hawk Mt SH March 15. 8 AM - 6 PM Gooch Gap SH March 16. 8 AM - 5 PM Dan Gap, March 17. Then to Neil's gap by 3 PM after a 7 AM start on March 18th. Yea I was younger then, but I did stop alot for sight seeing, & I took a few naps. Plus I was carrying WAY TOO MUCH WEIGHT.
You should make it their in 5 of 6 days depending on the weather:-?
With the mileage you stated, you should get there on your 4th day.
max patch
03-03-2009, 14:39
What is a realistic time frame to hit Neels Gap from Springer? I would like to start out with just 6-8 miles for the 1st two or three weeks to get into trail shape but from what I am reading that appears to be low mileage. I figure four and a half days to Neel's Gap is sufficient. Am I cutting myself short?
Lets look at where you might camp:
Springer to Hawk Mtn 7.6
Hawk Mtn to Gooch Mtn 7.1 (hardest day)
Gooch Mtn to Woody Gap Camping area 5.3
Woody Gap to Woods Hole 6.6
Woods Hole to Neels 4.1
Looks doable to me.
Springer to Hawk is an easy day. You should consider eating supper at Hawk, topping off your water, and then make a few miles to make the 2nd day easier. You won't have water at your campsite, but you'll be able to fill up soon enough.
NashvilleBiscuit
03-03-2009, 15:17
A little longer day but how bout this:
Springer to Hawk Day 1
Hawk to Gooch Day 2
Gooch to Slaughter Creek Campsite Day 3
Stop by Neel's gap on Day 4 while on the way to Baggs Creek
I'm an old guy who got the hiking bug three years ago.
Like you, I polled the forum for probable mileage and came up with 10 miles per day as a good estimate of an attainable average.
TILT!!
I had no idea. 5 to 7 was more like it. It took me 4 1/2 days to reach Neels Gap. I almost quit at Woody gap, but no one would pick me up hitching. After an hour I got a second wind
You have already hiked the area, so your estimates are probably more accurate than mine were.
In my opinion, it's more important to to take "small bites" that you can enjoy than it is to crank out miles to talk about later. As Jessie told me then, there are lots of places to get off the trail in that area, just go and see what happensThat's good advice. Also, if you are going slower than you expected, you should also be eating less food than expected. It shouldn't be the end of the world if it takes an extra day or two. You could plan it that way, and then not be disappointed. Eventually you will get a sense of the pounds of food per day that is right for you, and how far it gets you. As you get into shape you can burn more food per day, and as you lose weight you can cover more distance on a pound of food, but as long as you always have an extra day of food you should be able to take your time, and learn as you go.
I'm in pretty average shape, and did this:
Got on the Approach Trail at Nimblewill Gap (driver's choice), hiked that day to tentsite near Hawk Mt. Shelter.
Second day, hiked to tentsite near Gooch Mt. Shelter (old location).
Third day, hiked to tentsite near then-new Woodshole Shelter.
Fourth day, hiked in the morning to Neels Gap, took "nero" rest of day at Goose Creek Cabins (hostel at Neels was closed that year).
The terrain wasn't excessively tough, so I'm thinking anyone in half-decent shape could do this or something similar. The climb up to Blood Mt. was much easier than everyone around me led me to believe. They all took some kind of blue-blaze to avoid Blood Mt. Glad I didn't.
MoodyBluer
03-03-2009, 16:00
I appreciate the input. I did the approach trail last October in about 7-8 hours but I am in much better shape and refined my pack to a full five days of food and I am at exactly 30 lbs with a 3 liter bladder rather than the 35 lbs I took up the approach trail.
The terain maps show it as a fairly level hike until you get to Blood Mountain. Thanks again.
Your 2nd day, presumably Hawk Mtn shelter to Gooch shelter or Woody Gap will test you quite a bit...I think your comment about it being fairly level until Blood Mtn is correct if you are talking about net elevation gain, but it ignores the rather tough undulations in getting there.
The climb up Sassafras Mtn is your first real test (and it's a doozy if you're not in trail shape) probably the morning of your second day.
The climb out of Woody Gap to Granny Top isn't bad and climbing Blood is no problem at all.
I think that 2nd day is a real good way to get an idea of what the trail in Ga. will be like...lot's of PUDS.
The climb up to Blood Mt. was much easier than everyone around me led me to believe. They all took some kind of blue-blaze to avoid Blood Mt. Glad I didn't.
I agree. It was foggy the morning I went up it, and I couldn't see very far. I kept waiting for it to get really hard and then the next thing I knew, I was at Blood Mt. shelter.
On the other hand, I remember thinking Sassafrass Mt. just looked like a bump on the elevation profile. It turned out to be a pretty tough climb given that I wasn't in shape yet.
Bulldawg
03-03-2009, 16:18
I agree. It was foggy the morning I went up it, and I couldn't see very far. I kept waiting for it to get really hard and then the next thing I knew, I was at Blood Mt. shelter.
On the other hand, I remember thinking Sassafrass Mt. just looked like a bump on the elevation profile. It turned out to be a pretty tough climb given that I wasn't in shape yet.
Sassafrass is a real a$$ kicker. Probably the toughest climb in those first 4 or 5 days IMO. The climb out of Unicoi is a tough one, as is the climb up Kelly Knob, especially if you hit it at the end of a day.
ChinMusic
03-03-2009, 16:35
Sassafrass is a real a$$ kicker. Probably the toughest climb in those first 4 or 5 days IMO.
Sassafras didn't bother me. I had heard so much about it that I was mentally ready for something MUCH worse.
Big Cedar Mt, after Woody Gap, got my attention as it surprised me.
kayak karl
03-03-2009, 16:37
Lets look at where you might camp:
Springer to Hawk Mtn 7.6
Hawk Mtn to Gooch Mtn 7.1 (hardest day)
Gooch Mtn to Woody Gap Camping area 5.3
Woody Gap to Woods Hole 6.6
Woods Hole to Neels 4.1
Looks doable to me.
add the #$%$#@& approach trail and that was about my schedule too. limped all the way to neel gap :)
Sassafras was ugly for me but then I had to climb Justus which put e over the edge.
I shouldn't have tried to hike 12 miles my first time backpacking.
I usually hit Neel's midway on the 4th day and I am slow
bigcranky
03-03-2009, 17:15
It took us 3 days to get to Gooch Mountain Shelter from the state park (including the approach trail.) We met several hikers who started at Springer and hiked the 15+ to Gooch on their first day. All of them were hurting, and one guy ruined his knee.
If you want to start slow, and you will start at the park, figure 5 days. If you make it faster, good for you.
Oh, and we thought Sassafras was easy. Justus was a killer, and the climb out of Tesnatee Gap just plain hurt.
buff_jeff
03-03-2009, 22:13
There's no such as too slow or too fast. Just do what you're comfortable with and don't let anybody tell you it's wrong.
It took me 3 days to get there, including the Approach Trail. Some did it faster than me, some slower. All part of the game.
ChinMusic
03-03-2009, 23:39
buff - Going too fast too soon has been a recipe for injury. The older you are the more important this is.
keep the weight light, take a few breaks, enjoy the hike. There are plenty of campsites along the way. Don't worry about the mileage.
Sassafras is a tough climb, usually because it comes toward the end of the day for a lot of folks heading north from Springer.
I found Kelly's Knob to be a real trial for some reason...maybe I needed food.
Rough equivalents for 5'8" tall person...
135 pounds total weight x 20 miles per day
150 pounds total weight x 18 miles per day
180 pounds total weight x 15 miles per day
225 pounds total weight x 12 miles per day
270 pounds total weight x 10 miles per day
I must be doing something wrong. I am 5
6" weigh ~180 lbs (perhaps 175 post hike. :) )plus 200+ lbs total if you throw in the gear. I should only be doing 16 miles a day apparently. ;)
Back on topic...
For most new hikers in average shape ~8 MPD seems about average.
Gator 65
03-04-2009, 12:59
All good advice, thank you. My 1st thoughts were to be sure that I would be at a shelter each night but I am comitted to ease into this trip and pace myself. I intend to rise early each day and have a hot beverage and then each trail food and snickers all day. I plan on stopping for a good , hot dinner at 4-5 PM and then hike another hour or so then set up my tent. I do not care if I do 5 miles or 15 miles. I waited 30 years to start this journey and do not intend to blow it by coming down injured. My wife is laughing because she thinks I have enough 2nd Skin in my bag to last the entire thru hike.
I am retired, have all the time in the world, A very supportive wife and I can honestly say that this website has a wealth of knowledge and has saved me from alot of dumb mistakes. I cannot wait for Sunday the 9th.
I am looking forward to meeting all of the folks and Hope to see you all on the trail.
buff_jeff
03-04-2009, 13:48
buff - Going too fast too soon has been a recipe for injury. The older you are the more important this is.
I know. That's why I said you should go at a pace that you're comfortable with.
High Life
03-04-2009, 13:52
my 2 cents is : don't hurt yourself , know your body .
Drink water .. especially before bed . if you wake up at night and your mouth is dry have some water near by and take a couple sips
and take the advice i was given when i hiked in 2007
" too far , too fast , too soon "
take it easy the first week or two until your body adjusts
I started on the 1st of March and rolled into the gap on the morning of the 5th. It took me 13 days to cover the first 100 miles, and I still finished in less than give months.
In other words, you have plenty of time get in trail shape. Going NOBO out of Damascus I was on cruise control.
Wingfoot gave me great advice that Kirby's words remind me of. He said, push yourself a little each day,but don't worry about miles early on. If you make it to Damascus, you can go all the way.
When I arrived in Damascus, I knew he was right!
Doughnut
03-04-2009, 21:42
Gator, I started my section hikes there, if you go vis the FS road, it's almost all down hill to Hawk Mountian Shelter,THEN it's 5 guerlling (sp??) miles to Justis creek for the next water. If I were doing it again, I'd start a little later (though I am a morning person) and stop near Hawk Mountain. Once past there, I felt I was committed to Justis Creek for water, and that almost turned me away. In fact, a guy I met on the trail (hiked to Neel gap together) did quit at the gap.
Listen to your mind and body, enjoy your hike,
DoughNut
stranger
03-04-2009, 21:49
It completely depends on your fitness level, there is no reason why you can be pulling 16-18 right from Springer if you choose to.
I prepared physically by doing a 3.6 mile loop trail with very little flat about 3-4 times per week, for about 7 weeks prior to starting. This gave my knees plenty of time to strain and recover, and I reached Hiawassee at the end of day 4, but mileage is very personal, so do what you want to do, cause it's your body and you don't want an injury straight away.
Kerosene
03-04-2009, 23:29
Sassafras is a tough climb, usually because it comes toward the end of the day for a lot of folks heading north from Springer.
I found Kelly's Knob to be a real trial for some reason...maybe I needed food.Interesting that I have the same memory. The climb up Sassafras was notable but didn't really bother me. I almost bonked climbing out of Tesnatee Gap, but the rest of Georgia to Kelly's Knob seemed really easy to me. I hit Kelly's after talking myself out of dropping down into Addis Gap for a hiker feed, as I was already planning on hiking 18 miles, it was threatening rain, and it was the tail-end of the feed anyway. I was probably short of food and frustrated that I hadn't gotten there earlier.
Jim Adams
03-05-2009, 20:51
Take the full 5 days if you need to and be happy when you get there on the 4th. Most hikers get "knocked off" the trail early due to injuries from going too fast, too early. Take your time and enjoy your hike...you'll get there!
geek
You should plan for your thru hike to take 6 months, knowing that you will most likely finish in less than that. Don't worry about large miles down south. There were people doing 20 mile days before Fontana Dam, and I still finished before them.
weasel and bunny
03-05-2009, 22:33
I had a long weekend and did Approach to Neels. I carried no more than 16 pounds and had hiked the approach trail several times before.
The lodge to Black Gap: 6:15 to 9:30 p.m. The last 30ish minutes was in the dark.
Up at 5:30 and out of Black Gap NLT 6 a.m. to Hawk Mtn by 11 a.m. On to Gooch Gap shelter appx 6 p.m. Sassafrass kicked my butt. I was passed by a hiker coming down from Sassafrass who started at Amicalola at 6 a.m. We ended at the shelter together.
Gooch Gap shelter to Woods Hole: ???? to appx 11 a.m. smooth going. I continued on to Neels and arrived at 2 p.m.ish.
Blood Mountain kicked my butt
BUT I was going as fast as I possibly could. I did not stop a lot except to get water and pull a Snickers out of my pack. I thought I was in reasonable shape at the time and I could have made it faster but I had nasty blisters on my feet.
Since then I have made multiple hikes at 15 plus mpd at 10K feet in terrain that is way more difficult than the AT from Springer to Neels.
BUT!!!
I am heading for a 1 month section starting April 1. THis time I don't care about distance. My blistered feet, aching back, arms, shoulders and legs said slow down and enjoy. If I could do it again, and I am, I would say hike till you're tired and then stop.
If you go: 1 Park to Springer, 2 Springer to Hawk Mtn., 3 Hawk Mtn. to Woods Hole, 4 Woods Hole to Neels, I feel that those distances are pretty darn typical and very doable.
Pay attention to your body and listen to it. I did a 16 mpd on Day 1 and was pretty wasted. The guy I ended up with at Gooch started from Amicalola and was tired but could have continued another good piece.
Every person is different. Everyone goes at his own pace. Go at yours.