View Full Version : NEW THREAD! Leave no Trace Ethics - TRASH in shelters
eyahiker
05-20-2004, 19:01
So back to the LNT ethics thing
MINUS the religious insults by others. If you have the balls to post here, let's talk about the topic of TRASH.
It really sucks when people who day/weekend use the shelters along the AT leave their stuff. It's a pain to walk all over a site and see little tiny shiny threads of some sort of food wrappers everywhere. I used to live very close to the AT in PA, a couple miles from the Lehigh Gap, did lots of dayhikes, and Hawk Mtn. was one of the worst areas for trash - people would just leave stuff, water bottles, etc. everywhere.
I often felt obligated to pick it up and carry it to a local receptable or back to my vehicle, and at the same time it really angered me and made me feel like I may look 'holier than thou' to others, which was not my motivation. I guess I felt like this, no one every made any comments like that. Just felt strange cleaning up after slobs out there. But this is my internal issue........
But I also find myself confronting people outside of store entrances when they just drop and step on their cigarette butts..........I have never had anyone get in my face, but they look at me like I'm crazy when I clearly look at them and say "Now where do you think that is going to end up? There is an ashtray 10 feet in front of you" as I pick up their still steaming butt they are usually running into the store, I guess people don't like to take responsibility for their actions............. nothing against those who smoke, but butts at shelters are foul too.
I hate seeing junk in the woods. It saddens me to see some people so inconsiderate about the wilderness. Based on the trashing of the wild I sometimes get the impression that they really want to make the great wilderness experience just like back home. Maybe they feel more comfortable...I jsut don't know. But I will say it's much worse in Korea than in America. These trails are horrible if you're trying to experience the wild.
Finally, I still don't like shelters and privies. They just seem so out of place. :)
eyahiker
05-20-2004, 22:57
I agree, shelters and privies are kinda out of place, but I know when the weather's bad they really are a blessing, depending on your tent of course. But seems to me that they may also have a flipside, that being that less campsites are used, therefore the earth itself saved from another flat dirt scar. The shelters do that as well, but many can use them. I wonder what the AT would be like with no shelters.........and how many people it may effect in their deciding to actually hike the whole thing.:-?
People who leave trash are self-centered and don't belong in the woods in the first place.
eyahiker
05-21-2004, 08:53
This is pretty funny - some one starts a thread about LNT ethics, then it goes to religous messages at or near shelters, say let's PLAY NICE, do all the name calling they possibly can at anyone who believes in anything, and then they bitch about Christians, and only ONE PERSON has anything to say about TRASH - obviously, no one wanted to really talk about LNT ethics, they just wanted to slam others beliefs.
Amazing. Expected.
I really like it when I am proven right:bse
This is pretty funny - some one starts a thread about LNT ethics, then it goes to religous messages at or near shelters, say let's PLAY NICE, do all the name calling they possibly can at anyone who believes in anything, and then they bitch about Christians, and only ONE PERSON has anything to say about TRASH - obviously, no one wanted to really talk about LNT ethics, they just wanted to slam others beliefs.
Amazing. Expected.
I really like it when I am proven right:bse
Umm... since I am the one that brought up the fact that a thread on trash in shelters probably wouldn't get many comments in the thread on religion doesn't that mean I am the one who was proven right? :rolleyes:
eyahiker
05-21-2004, 16:36
Yes Needles you are right:clap
So do you agree with the following statement, or rather what is your opinion....
Nobody REALLY gives a crap, they just look for some reason to bitch about trash that falls into, say, printed materials that are religious, as opposed to what would commonly be known as trash? ( candy wrappers, butts, etc. etc.)
Thanks for pointing out my error!
Yes Needles you are right:clap
So do you agree with the following statement, or rather what is your opinion....
Nobody REALLY gives a crap, they just look for some reason to bitch about trash that falls into, say, printed materials that are religious, as opposed to what would commonly be known as trash? ( candy wrappers, butts, etc. etc.)
Thanks for pointing out my error!
I think people really do care about trash on the trail, but different people care about different things. I once met a hiker who was picking up trash along the trail as he hiked, but then he left cigarette butts in the fire ring at a shelter that night (by the way, I don't have anything against him smoking, I smoke myself, but I pack out all of my butts).
My guess is that this guy thought of the trail as one thing, and thought of shelters and fire rings in a completely different way. So maybe we are somewhat selective in what trash offends us and what doesn't. Personally I hate seeing non-native plants growing along the trail, something that I feel is much worse than any candybar wrapper, and when I am absolutley certain that a plant doesn't belong on the AT I am not adverse to removing it. Not that the elimination of a single alien invader does much good, but it does make me feel better.
Rain Man
05-21-2004, 18:29
So back to the LNT ethics thing ... let's talk about the topic of TRASH.
What are the feelings about leaving reading materials in shelters? Okay to leave a good paperback for folks who are stuck there in bad weather? Readers' Digest? What about chapters of books, as you hike and read them nightly?
Okay to leave spare cord or rope? Food? (as in, you're finished with your hike and you're happy to leave some Mountain House for someone who might run short) A spare trash bag?
What about leaving toilet paper (in a zip lock) at a privy?
I'm only speaking of shelters, and I'm NOT sure how I feel about such issues yet. Too new to the AT culture still.
Is this just a slippery slope?
Rain Man
.
eyahiker
05-21-2004, 19:40
I suppose that you can't please everyone on this one, and some will say it's all trash regardless if it's readers digest or spare stuff left behind. I guess each person wants to travel light, and some may be happy for the diversin of some type of reading material, regardless of what it is, since it is another way to entertain yourself, especially when alone.
So there's both sides, one hiker alone in a shelter might use it for fire starter, and another be grateful it's there so he didn't have to carry his own 'entertainment' with him.
One of my own experiences while hiking in the Adirondacks last year was a hiker who was scared off by a bear, and the next morning hiked out and left a HUGE amount of food behind next to the Mt. Marcy dam (some of you know this area well, lots of bears, lots of hikers at 'base' camp) I couldn't believe this individual had actually hauled that much food in his pack - whole large boxes of minute rice, and about 13 Mountain House pack$ left, cans of tuna, kool aid mix, the works. This was early May, there was still snow on the peak and the heavy hiking traffic had not come along yet to scavenge the food. What to do with it?
I wanted to pack it out, put it in a trash can ( there is actually one there near a ranger hut, but it was unoccupied that early in the season and no one would empty it but a bear anyway.....)
The trash scattered through the woods was really unbelievable, mostly bears that had trashed ill-hung packs from the year before.....
I personally would be really happy to see some extra TP( dry of course) left behind in a privy if I was out, but it's still trash if nobody uses it.
I wonder if the TP was out if it would upset someone if one used a page from the register?:-?
We should all leave LNT ethics, but that is not seeming to work unless everyone does it.....
What are the feelings about leaving reading materials in shelters? Okay to leave a good paperback for folks who are stuck there in bad weather? Readers' Digest? What about chapters of books, as you hike and read them nightly?
Okay to leave spare cord or rope? Food? (as in, you're finished with your hike and you're happy to leave some Mountain House for someone who might run short) A spare trash bag?
What about leaving toilet paper (in a zip lock) at a privy?
I'm only speaking of shelters, and I'm NOT sure how I feel about such issues yet. Too new to the AT culture still.
Is this just a slippery slope?
Rain Man
.
Rain Man: Like you I'm new to the AT culture. I do feel, however, anything left behind (for whatever purpose) has the potential of becoming trash. You know the saying, "one man's trash is another man's treasure."
I'm new to the AT culture, but my opinion is based on my love for the outdoors...and picking up other folks cigarette butts during Basic Training!
Lets talk trash at shelters. And I'm not talking about someone leaving TP in the privy, or reading material on the shelf. But what about the litter such as various food wrappers. I suspect that the reason why it gets left is largely out of habit. People do such things just because it's their habit, and don't even think about it. How do you overcome? By educating them about LNT ethics.
eyahiker
05-21-2004, 22:02
Peaks, agree with you on the education thing.
Perhaps I am not wise to believe that it's not the thru's or the kind of dedicated hikers we usually have here on WB, but rather weekend warriror or local 'day' users, maybe even boy scout troops ( although you would think they'd be very careful about their trash.....) who use shelter/campsites on a brief basis and do not have the connection and understanding of the AT as a whole, or any large natural space, since they are only occupying a small area after a brief hike in.
If you are on a thru and you see trash at every shelter, it starts to really bug you.
LNT ethics are often placed on signage at trailheads, but we all know that most people don't read these signs.
funkyfreddy
05-22-2004, 00:33
I pick up stuff on hikes and carry it out, try to leave the woods and trails cleaner than I found them. Unfortunately I can't carry out everything I find and it also depends how long of a hike I'm on. I refuse to carry out someone else's toilet paper, although I have raked up some and burnt it in a fire.
By the way, be glad there are outhouses and privies along the AT. If there weren't any the trail would be a DISASTER and a toxic waste land of toilet paper and fecal matter blowing all over the place - not a very pleasant or scenic picture, is it? Don't laugh - I've actually seen this in some areas w/o privies - large piles of s##t with scraps of used toilet blowing around the woods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyahiker
> People who leave trash are self-centered and don't belong in the woods in the first place.<
I agree and I'll raise you one. People who litter (especially in wilderness areas) don't deserve to live! Imagine how much nicer and cleaner the world would be if all litterers were disposed of properly :jump
funkyfreddy
05-22-2004, 00:45
:rolleyes:
Question:
How often do you run across trash cans? At every shelter? At every road?
eyahiker
05-22-2004, 07:38
JLB, why don't you do some hiking. Buy a video, get a book, and read some of the other threads here.
Question:
How often do you run across trash cans? At every shelter? At every road?
Most, if not all, trail maintaining organizations have been advocating "carry in carry out" for several decades, probably since the backpacking boom started in the 1970. If there were a trash can at a shelter, it means that someone has to empty it. So, there are no trash cans at shelters. If the trailhead is at a state or national forest or national park, you will generally find trash cans there. That's because it's accessible for a public employee to empty it on a regular basis.
On a side note, the most common questions asked by visitors to AMC"s huts include "Where's the bathrooms?" and "Where's the trash can?"
eyahiker
05-22-2004, 09:15
Glad this thread has not gone down the "what constitutes trash" lane. What is your opinon as to how we, as hikers spread this LNT ethical way of thinking to weekend warriors and/or those who litter? ( not that weekenders are always bad, I weekend sometimes)
Glad this thread has not gone down the "what constitutes trash" lane. What is your opinon as to how we, as hikers spread this LNT ethical way of thinking to weekend warriors and/or those who litter? ( not that weekenders are always bad, I weekend sometimes)
First, litter generates litter. So, the best way to control liter is to be vigilent about picking it up. As soon as there is one piece of litter, there are dozens of bits of litter. That's what caretakers tell me.
eyahiker
05-22-2004, 18:48
Peaks , that is a great idea, and the guy who told you this wise.
I just got done doing a one month section hike from from southern PA to MA. It is dishearting to see trash and litter on the trail and in the shelters. The cig butts are really not nice to see along the trail.
The biggest offenders are the weekenders that come to the shelters with 80 pounds of crap in their packs. I can't tell you how much garbage I saw left behind when I arrived at some of the shelters on a late Sunday or Monday. Often you will find wet soggy clothing or those half empty propane cylinders. The fire pits are usually left with tin/aluminum cans or aluminum foil. In New Jersey, every bear box had trash left behind. In a few cases, there was a note left by a thru hiker that said something to the effect that the place was trashed, and he cleaned it up, but because of the large amount of garbage, he had no choice but to leave it in the food storage box because it was too much to pack out (this was noted at Pochunk Mtn.). It is truly ashame that this happens.
As a counter measure, if I see week enders in a shelter, I will come in and remove my boots and shirt and hang them on the nearest line or nail. Sometimes the smell is so repulsive to them that they immediately leave. If they do, it is my way of saying that "you folks don't belong here". Of course, this has nothing to do with litter, but they may be reluctant to come back the next time. I am always polite and never give anyone a real hassle.
This year, I always tried to take a little bit of someone elses left behind trash out with me, even if it was only a few bits of a candy wrapper.
It can also be discouraging when you hike several days and never come across a trash can... but that is just the way it is sometimes. I have carried my trash for as long as 6 days before coming to a trash can.
Just John
JLB, why don't you do some hiking. Buy a video, get a book, and read some of the other threads here.
Silly me, I actually thought this forum was to have questions like this answered by helpful, knowlegeble hikers. Instead I keep running into you. :bse
Anybody else want to answer?
Most, if not all, trail maintaining organizations have been advocating "carry in carry out" for several decades, probably since the backpacking boom started in the 1970. If there were a trash can at a shelter, it means that someone has to empty it. So, there are no trash cans at shelters. If the trailhead is at a state or national forest or national park, you will generally find trash cans there. That's because it's accessible for a public employee to empty it on a regular basis.
On a side note, the most common questions asked by visitors to AMC"s huts include "Where's the bathrooms?" and "Where's the trash can?"
So is it safe to assume a trash can every two or three days?
Kozmic Zian
05-23-2004, 09:01
Yea.....LNT. Means Leave No Trace. Leave No Trace. No Trace. Trace.
No. Nothing. KZ@
eyahiker
05-23-2004, 09:14
Well put CZ.:banana
bobgessner57
05-23-2004, 09:27
The LNT message needs to be repeated like a mantra. Some folks may never get it. Picking up around shelters or other trashed areas often gets others into the act.
JLB- The frequency of trash cans varies with the section of the tail. Generally I figure on hauling my trash until I resupply or leave to go home. Trash cans at a road crossing or park picnic area are a welcome bonus. I always pack a couple of extra of those flimsy plastic bags groceries are packed in. They work well as a trash container and can be clipped to a hip belt if one is inclined to pick up litter along the trail. If I've got room for the bulk they hold a lot of fire ring debris and the pack stays clean.
SGT Rock
05-23-2004, 11:16
Don't forget that even though some burn their trash, a lot of modern wrappers leave foil that doesn't burn. Clean out the fire ring too in the morning.
Kerosene
05-23-2004, 13:37
So is it safe to assume a trash can every two or three days? No, but does it really matter? You start out carrying food with its packaging and you carry the remnants until you either reach the infrequent trash can or resupply point. Since most hikers resupply every 3-6 days, that's what I plan for, and then I'm opportunitistic about disposing of my trash should I come across a trash can somewhere.
eyahiker
05-23-2004, 13:56
That is one thing I really like about meals I can 'cook' in their pouches. Makes it very convenient to stuff any and all "trash" from that meal itself and roll it up, I also take little rubber bands with me, they weigh almost nothing:)
Kozmic Zian
05-23-2004, 14:32
Naaaa!............................................ ........................................
No, but does it really matter? You start out carrying food with its packaging and you carry the remnants until you either reach the infrequent trash can or resupply point. Since most hikers resupply every 3-6 days, that's what I plan for, and then I'm opportunitistic about disposing of my trash should I come across a trash can somewhere.
Just trying to get an idea.
As far as hanging food, wouldn't you have to hang your trash as well?
Question:
How often do you run across trash cans? At every shelter? At every road?
Do this, JLB. Put your hiking gear in a backpack, grab your gun, whistle to your dog and back your truck out the driveway. Head north. Keep going. By the end of the day you'll see these mountains. Follow the first sign that says AT Trailhead. Start walking.
You'll have your answer soon enough.
Do this, JLB. Put your hiking gear in a backpack, grab your gun, whistle to your dog and back your truck out the driveway. Head north. Keep going. By the end of the day you'll see these mountains. Follow the first sign that says AT Trailhead. Start walking.
You'll have your answer soon enough.
No thanks. I have 6 weeks to plan and prepare, so I think I'll just use this board to get my questions answered, that is, if it's O.K. with you.
Dances with Mice
05-23-2004, 19:55
Just trying to get an idea.
As far as hanging food, wouldn't you have to hang your trash as well?
What's your first guess?
What's your first guess?
I don't make guesses, unless they are educated ones. That's why I am asking the question.
Rocalousas
05-23-2004, 23:04
I don't make guesses, unless they are educated ones. That's why I am asking the question.
Hang your trash if it has odors that could attract wildlife. Examples are used Mountain House pouches, candy wrappers, and so on. Otherwise, your pack could get tore up by mice seeking a way in or by racoons, and of course bears.
Dances with Mice
05-23-2004, 23:14
I don't make guesses, unless they are educated ones. That's why I am asking the question.
Why are you hanging your food?
Hang your trash if it has odors that could attract wildlife. Examples are used Mountain House pouches, candy wrappers, and so on. Otherwise, your pack could get tore up by mice seeking a way in or by racoons, and of course bears.
Thank you for answering my question. ;)
Why are you hanging your food?
Because I have been advised that if I don't, then I might expect a visit by a large Ursus americanus.
Dances with Mice
05-24-2004, 05:38
Because I have been advised that if I don't, then I might expect a visit by a large Ursus americanus.
This isn't meant to irritate you, but your questions and answers indicate that you don't understand a very important fundamental concept.
So bear with me.
Why would Ursus visit?
...let the bears pack the trash out! ;) hehehehehehe!
so, the thread digresses!
my 2 pennies worth...i pack out...what i pack in...
on a recent section-hike...we stayed @ Cosby Knob Shelter & reading the shelter register....there were loads of comments about how much trash was in & around the shelter...one comment stated "over 30lbs of trash" was picked up by the trail caretaker & hauled out.
thank you all that adhere to LNT ethics & THANK YOU A.T. maintainers!
Dances with Mice
05-24-2004, 09:16
...let the bears pack the trash out! ;) hehehehehehe!
so, the thread digresses!
"Respect Wildlife" is a LNT principle. There has been no digression.
SGT Rock
05-24-2004, 09:26
Just a quick note if y'all please.
I know some are giving old JLB some flack because of his gun stance, but lets try to help a novice hiker with some issues instead of letting this stuff carry outside the gun thread. He has legit questions that others have voiced in the past without too much ribbing. Try to imagine he doesn't carry when you talk to him if it helps.
I can usually get rid of my trash every couple of days. Bag it with your food in a zip lock if you cannot burn it. I figure it is lighter than the food that came in it that has already been consumed, so it really isn't added weight. I do however police up what I find along the trail until I run out of room for it. I assume the longest you may have to carry would probably be about 7 days when hiking some places like the 100 mile wilderness, but I haven't done that section yet so I cannot speak with authority on it.
Tha Wookie
05-24-2004, 09:51
Studies have shown that animals usually go to the firepit when they check out a camp, because people try to burn food. Burning your leftovers is just like handing the bear your burrito. Don't do it! That's why highly used camps often have people problems with bears frequenting.
A campfire does not burn hot enough to combust food. Even after the ashes are out, the food remains and animals sense it immediately and investigate. They will sometimes eat trash if it smells like food.
Park officials in the Shenny's found a dead doe years back, and did an autopsy to discover the cause. What they found was gruesome -7 POUNDS of foil and plastic wrappers. This is no urban myth, I talked with one of their researchers about this personally.
Pack it out!:-?
steve hiker
05-24-2004, 10:50
on a recent section-hike...we stayed @ Cosby Knob Shelter & reading the shelter register....there were loads of comments about how much trash was in & around the shelter...one comment stated "over 30lbs of trash" was picked up by the trail caretaker & hauled out.
Now that is disgusting. I was there this winter and Cosby Knob (and all the other shelters in the smokies) were clean. There was no trash. Together with the snow and isolation (very few hikers), the place had a very pristine feeling about it. Another reason I don't like hiking in the summer.
This isn't meant to irritate you, but your questions and answers indicate that you don't understand a very important fundamental concept.
So bear with me.
Why would Ursus visit?
Because bears are attracted to food.
[QUOTE=SGT Rock]Just a quick note if y'all please.
I know some are giving old JLB some flack because of his gun stance, but lets try to help a novice hiker with some issues instead of letting this stuff carry outside the gun thread. He has legit questions that others have voiced in the past without too much ribbing. Try to imagine he doesn't carry when you talk to him if it helps.
[QUOTE]
Good man. I've argued my gun stance only only the open threads about it, and am not trying to preach. I'm here to learn, and have my questions answered, except when I have valuable knowledge to impart to you, such as your questions on firearms.
Thanks.
Dances with Mice
05-24-2004, 16:19
Because bears are attracted to food.
As are we all. And what sense do they use to find it?
And the answer is smell, just to move things along.
So you should hang your food and trash because they have an aroma which could attract bears.
See? Once you understand the basis for doing something all the little decisions become easier to make.
And the point was to get you to think of what else you're carrying that might also have an aroma. Will you have toothpaste? Scented soap? Footpowder? Deodorant, mouthwash, after dinner mints, whatever. How about your cooking pot, how well do you clean it? Do you use a scrub pad when you do?
You don't need to answer each of those questions. But do you now know where to store them at night, and why?
As are we all. And what sense do they use to find it?
And the answer is smell, just to move things along.
So you should hang your food and trash because they have an aroma which could attract bears.
See? Once you understand the basis for doing something all the little decisions become easier to make.
And the point was to get you to think of what else you're carrying that might also have an aroma. Will you have toothpaste? Scented soap? Footpowder? Deodorant, mouthwash, after dinner mints, whatever. How about your cooking pot, how well do you clean it? Do you use a scrub pad when you do?
You don't need to answer each of those questions. But do you now know where to store them at night, and why?
Thanks for the detailed response. I have read a great deal about mice getting in packs to get at food, so that would mean that some people are keeping food in the shelters with them. That would also attract bears, i would assume. How do you deal with another hiker who refuses to hang his trash, and might be putting everyone else at risk of a bear encounter?
SGT Rock
05-24-2004, 16:43
And the point was to get you to think of what else you're carrying that might also have an aroma. Will you have toothpaste? Scented soap? Footpowder? Deodorant, mouthwash, after dinner mints, whatever. How about your cooking pot, how well do you clean it? Do you use a scrub pad when you do?
You don't need to answer each of those questions. But do you now know where to store them at night, and why?
Something that I have thought of since I used to spend a lot of time in the Nantahalas before I ever thought of hiking the AT. Mint is a natural weed in a lot of places along the AT. Mint scented soaps, toothpaste, etc. would not be associated with food to the bears since they don't eat the plants with the same smell. It is a good reason to use mint soap and such, although I still hang that stuff anyway. But, better to smell like a weed to a bear than a blueberry or some other fruit that they eat.
Texas Dreamer
05-24-2004, 16:48
Totally off topic--but seemed a good opportunity. To Sarge: I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, but I just want to thank you for always saying just the right thing to diffuse a hot tempered discussion. Some times these things get so annoying I want to give up on this site, then you come in and make me remember there are more good hikers giving good, well meaning advice in a pleasant voice than there are troublemakers. Thank You
eyahiker
05-24-2004, 16:54
................Ditto.;)
SGT Rock
05-24-2004, 17:15
Thanks. Can't we all just get along LOL!
Dances with Mice
05-24-2004, 17:56
Thanks for the detailed response. I have read a great deal about mice getting in packs to get at food, so that would mean that some people are keeping food in the shelters with them. That would also attract bears, i would assume. How do you deal with another hiker who refuses to hang his trash, and might be putting everyone else at risk of a bear encounter?
Leading by example and respectful discussion are your only options for persuading other hikers. I think mice explore packs for the sheer challenge of it. No apparent rhyme or reason for some of the things they do.
Reading the shelter journal is the best way to find out about recent bear activity near a shelter. At shelters with resident raiders it's no problem to get people to hang stuff. At Springer Mtn shelter a few weeks ago the ridge runner was recommending people hang their entire pack. Same at the next major shelter, Hawk Mtn.
One guy at Hawk even hung his boots for some reason. But he didn't hang them well and the bears shook them down and ran off with them. Of course a trailname was born - "Bear Foot".
I'd be interested to know the effect of the cicada hatch on bear activity this year. I was horseback riding near Amicalola Falls State Park this weekend and the cicadas were really swarming, covering bushes. The bears may be so full of bugs now that they no longer need to hit the shelter cables.
steve hiker
05-24-2004, 17:56
Thanks. Can't we all just get along
........ No
SGT Rock
05-24-2004, 18:31
I guess he hung his boots to keep deer away from them. I have seen boots chewed by dear for the salt in them. OOOOOOHHHH sweaty foot salt.
Just trying to get an idea.
As far as hanging food, wouldn't you have to hang your trash as well?
All trash from food packaging should be hung the same as food, or with the food. The reason is that it has a scent, just like food. When in bear country, bears are attracted to it. When elsewhere, small animals such as mice are attracted to it. Mice will eat holes in your pack if you don't take the food and trash out of it and hang it seperately at night.
[QUOTE=Dances with Mice]Reading the shelter journal is the best way to find out about recent bear activity near a shelter.QUOTE]
DWM,
You just taught me another reason for the importance for shelter journals.
So is it safe to assume a trash can every two or three days?
No. No shelter has trash cans. Most road crossings don't have trash cans. If you make a serious search in most towns used for resupply you can find a trash can.
The basic rule is simple. If you can carry it in full, you can carry it out empty until you have to resupply, at which time you can dispose of your trash. That's why we talk about "Carry in, Carry out." The latter continues until you come to a trash can. One is available at all post offices and most stores used for resupply.
Weary
All trash from food packaging should be hung the same as food, or with the food. The reason is that it has a scent, just like food. When in bear country, bears are attracted to it. When elsewhere, small animals such as mice are attracted to it. Mice will eat holes in your pack if you don't take the food and trash out of it and hang it seperately at night.
Leave your pack open each night. Unzip all zippers and the mice will not chew holes in your pack to get in.
I guess he hung his boots to keep deer away from them. I have seen boots chewed by dear for the salt in them. OOOOOOHHHH sweaty foot salt.
usually recommended to hang your boots if in porcupine areas - those b'tards will chew anything with any possibility of salt on it - perhaps the guy just got into the habit of hanging his boots because of porcupines
smokymtnsteve
05-25-2004, 16:39
also try and reduce the amount of food packaging that you pack in the first place...why are you carrying material that will become trash?
eyahiker
05-25-2004, 21:29
Leaving zippers open..........
Doesn't this just fill your pack with mouse droppings? This would seem to me to be a real heath issue, although hanta virus doesn't do well along the eastern seaboard.......
SGT Rock
05-25-2004, 21:43
Just shake 'em out. I think there has been one case of the virus on the AT ever, while there have probably been thousabnds of chewed packs. Odds favor leaving themm open. But this doesn't ensure a non-chewed pack - sometimes they do it for fun.
grrickar
05-26-2004, 00:17
I am an Eagle Scout, so I did a fair amount of camping, canoeing and hiking in my days and we always packed/rowed/hiked out with more than we came in with. I know some scout troops don't, and that gives Boy Scouts a bad name. I don't think the boys are as much to blame as much as the leaders teaching them are - after all, some boys have never spent a night in the woods. Luckily we had good adult leaders that cared.
We paddled a 50 mile trip on the Buffalo River once, and by the end of the trip we had one canoe literally loaded with trash bags (stuff we cleaned up along the way as a service project). We named it the garbage scow, and thought it was funny at the time but looking back it's kinda sad that people don't give a rip anymore. Anyway, just wanted to throw that in because someone mentioned it in an earlier post.
To me Leave No Trace is just common sense, and it goes back to the good ole' Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." My boss smokes, and has no problem tossing trash/butts/whatever out his car window, but never stops to think what if someone pulled up in front of his house and dumped their whole garbage can in his front yard. It's like these people do not realize the fact that the rest of us were not put on this earth to follow them around with a trash bag. Fortunately there are people who care that will serve in that role, but it's really annoying.
After reading some posts on here, I wonder if the shelter trash issue is not due to some partying "hikers" that are just doing weekenders and drinking and partying at the shelters more than they are hiking? Most distance hikers I would think have more respect, after all, nature is their home for the next several months - why would they want to trash it?