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BlackRock
03-09-2009, 16:31
Hey Guys! I've got a new product I'd like to show off. It's a custom made
ultralight down hat. It's been a hit with the climbing community, especially
alpine climbers who are always looking for light and warm gear. It
compresses to almost nothing and at less than one ounce you can't find a
warmer lighter hat for on the trail. I've got a new review you can find at:
Section hiker Review (http://sectionhiker.com/2009/10/02/black-rock-gear-ul-down-hat/)

Here is the hat:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2497/4034968918_8044e84700_o.jpg

It's handmade in the USA made from only the best materials I could find. The
fabric is Momentum-MR, a DWR coated downproof ripstop nylon fabric that
weighs in at .9oz per yard. The fill, new for Winter 2009, is the highest
quality 900fp Canadian grey goose down. It's finished off with a soft liner
made from "DryLine", a high tech sweat wicking fabric to help keep you dry
while moving. Then end product is a hat weighing in at 21 grams(only .74 oz
for a regular size hat).

I've got more info and reviews of the hat at Trailspace.com here:
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/black-rock-gear/down-beanie/


The hats come in four colors (Black, Red, Grey and Blue) and in five sizes
(XS, S,M,L and XL). It's been tested from high in the Cascades to the to a
full trip rafting down the Grand Canyon and to the highest peak in the
Northwest.

Here is a shot of the hat on top of Mt. Rainier at 14,410ft.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3637/3342315180_d2993abb12.jpg


Evan Cabodi
Black Rock Gear
www.blackrockgear.com (http://www.blackrockgear.com/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3335/3341557993_16d4cbd674_o.jpg

Rcarver
03-09-2009, 21:02
I just got mine out of the mail box today. Looks like a great product. Maybe it will get cold enough this weekend to put it to the test.

The seams are top notch and the fit is right on. I really like the micro fleece band around the ear section.

BlackRock
03-12-2009, 23:09
Excellent Rcarver! I hope to hear a from you about the hat. I'm in the process of filling some orders for PCT and AT hikers for this season. I guess the day zero kick off for the PCT is coming up here April 22nd. If you're thinking of getting one you should get an order in soon, we'll stock up as much as we can though.

I've also just updated the site with new product images and will be adding a picture gallery too. In the meantime here are some more photos of us testing the hats while winter camping this past year for you to enjoy.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3541/3349865723_e93ab1d00e.jpg

My buddies and I took a couple winter camping trips to the desert landscape found in Eastern Washington this past year. It's very arid and can be really cold in November and December. The temps were usually down into the teens at night and low 40's during the day. The sun was a welcome reprieve from the rain back in Seattle. The hats really keep alot of warmth in just on their own. I wore my jacket most of the day but my buddy, below, was down to his poly and just hat most of the time.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3655/3349865787_b2f2c3d9b9.jpg

At night when temps dropped the campfire became the gather place. I decided to forgoe the tent and just slept in my 15 degree bag and my hat. I also draped my down jacket over me but I slept comfortably with only a light layer of poly-pro on.

The hat allowed me to sleep all night without sinching my bag up over my head. Its nice to have the freedom of motion with your head out of your bag while retaining your heat. It feels just as warm as my down jacket and blocks all wind making the conditions much more enjoyable.

In the morning a layer of frost covered everything. My feet had a little moisture seeping through where my foot box rubbed the ground. My hat was half frozen on the front and dry on the back. After walking around in the sun the crystals beaded up on the hat and I wiped them off. The DWR coating does a good job along with the tight weave of the ripstop.

Here is everyone crammed around the fire in their hat. I always have a few extra hats laying around :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3622/3349865751_c536d6ddd4.jpg

And here is another close up of my buddy in the hat just hanging out.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/3350692898_c68246db69.jpg


Anyway, I hope you enjoyed the pictures and small review albiet from me. We sure enjoyed the winter weekends camping in the sun and will look forward to them again next year. I will say, however, that I am more than ready for spring to arrive. Its time for the snow to melt so we can head back up into the mountains for more of this.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3465/3349956879_cd2b000711.jpg

This is our campsite for a few days next to the lake with Colchuck Balanced Rock looming in the background. The Thru-hike across Aasgard Pass into the Alpine Lakes Wilderness is a beautiful 20 mile hike, highly recommended anytime you visit Washington.

:sun Happy Trails!

BlackRock
03-18-2009, 15:14
After reading a few posts here on "Down Cleaning" I thought I'd do a little experiment for everyone while at the same time running some tests on the materials and down I use in my own products (www.blackrockgear.com (http://www.blackrockgear.com)).

The question I'm trying to answer is: "How best to clean your down products" I hope to show what works and what doesn't.

For the test I made three identical pillows to represent a single baffle whether in a sleeping bag, jacket or hat.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/3365227007_94cd17d994.jpg

The fabric is the same downproof nylon I use in my hats and is the same type of fabric used in many high end bags and jackets. I then filled each with down from the same batch rated at around 860 fill power.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3450/3366047820_45dd8eb0dc.jpg

The quality of down can vary greatly and for most of us getting that higher fill power is worth it's weight in gold. So if you pay for that elusive 900 fill product you'll want to keep it in top shape. Over time wear and tear reduce the downs loft and affect the fabrics breathability and water resistance. Grease and dirt clog the hairs turning your once puffy item into a flatter and less warm piece of gear.

So figuring out how to care for your product can keep that high fill rating working it's best should be worth while. It should be interesting to see if any cleaning product does better or if some damage the down and shell more than help it.

Here is a good article on fill rating. It's simple and to the point.
http://sectionhiker.com/2008/10/27/fill-power-ratings-the-low-down-on-goose-down/

Here are a couple of shots of the down I used for this experiment. I also got some close up shots of the down for comparison after testing.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3365226519_88d49093c1.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3365226609_5c178a03fb.jpg

After building the test pillows I weighed them and measured the loft of the pillows. Each pillow weighs around 1 gram and has very close to 15/16th of an inch of fill as seen here:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3572/3365226805_397d70cbb4.jpg

My first test will be to test the DWR coating on the fabric. So I took a couple of close up shots and will use these as comparison shots after all the other tests. After wear tests and cleaning we'll see how well it holds up. Below is a close up of the 20 denier downproof fabric. It's brand new, never washed and is clean as can be.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3466/3366047962_4ec0884314.jpg

Here is the same shot after subjecting each pillow to the kitchen sink. You can see how the water beads up. I let the water beads sit on the product for a few minutes then snapped off this picture for you.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3623/3365226945_5711d3d0c9.jpg

Future Testing:
I've now placed each pillow outside. It's currently 42* and lightly raining. I think I'll leave them outside for the next week and see how they do in the expected sun, rain and snow and take more pictures.

I need to come up with some "wear" tests as well to simulate product use and to get them dirty for the eventual cleaning tests.

The end goal will be to clean the products and dry them, then measure and take pics and finally pull out the down and comparing it to previous shots to see if it's lost or regained its loft. I may even run some high heat tests in the dryer to see if I can damage it as well.

So any ideas :-?, questions :confused: or comments :cool: are appreciated. What tests do you want to see, what cleaning products should I use, etc. I'd like some help in running this test to show how my product holds up and how your similar products can benefit from this information.

I was thinking of cleaning with:
1. Nikwax
2. ReviveX
3. Laundry Detergent

Evan Cabodi
www.blackrockgear.com (http://www.blackrockgear.com/)

Wags
03-19-2009, 00:22
that's some neat work evan

BlackRock
03-19-2009, 12:09
Thanks Wags!

Today's test... Critters.

I walked out today to check on the pillows and they were gone! After looking around I found two out near the back deck and another in the yard. I think the crows or the squirrels decided they wanted them for their nests. So... I've now stapled them to the back deck :)

Critter test - Check.

Wags
03-19-2009, 13:47
hey black i've got an idea. how about adding a touch more fabric and down and bringing the sides of the hat down to cover the ears and adding a little cord w/ cordlock to keep that baby on during high winds? basically like outdoor research's peruvian hat style but w/ down :D

BlackRock
03-19-2009, 14:54
That hat is actually deep enough to fully cover your ears, some pictures just don't have the hat pulled down all the way. I designed the hat to fully cover your head and ears to block all wind and cold but still look good. I do like the idea and could always do a custom order if somebody really wanted earflaps and cordlocks like the Peruvian style.

The hat fits just like most beanie caps out there and is really light and comfortable with the stretchy headband liner. Here is a better picture showing how the hat fits. I also offer the hat in different sizes so if you are looking for something with more room you can always order the next size up. Each progressive size gets slightly larger in diameter and depth.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/3019958957_173ca0bc40.jpg

As for a cordlock, I've got something similar in the works, great idea though! You really don't need one to keep the hat on your head but I could make it an option. The hat has a snug fit with a stretchy liner and has never fallen off. We've tested the hat up on Rainier in 30+mph winds and even riding around in a convertable.

What I have been working on is a "Birdi-loop" of cordlock for clipping the hat to your pack. The loop is hidden inside a built in stuff pouch in the headband allowing you to roll the hat into itself in an easily storable pouch.

Here is a picture of one of my prototype hats with this built in pouch. It shows the full size hat next to one rolled up. I've got a quarter sitting on the rolled up hat for size reference. It rolls to only a couple inches in diameter and would have a small loop of cordelette available to clip to.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/3022754007_ec50642a0c.jpg

It does add another gram or two of weight to the hat, but considering it's the lightest hat on the market that doesn't matter too much. Most hats weigh 60-100 grams like fleece and wool. The only hats coming close in weight are windpro hats, but they are usually 40 grams or more like the OR Peruvian at 55 grams or the OR Alpine hat at 47 grams.

The difference is that while windpro hats are windproof they have little to no insulation which you feel when it gets cold out. My hats are fully windproof, lighter and have enough insulation to endure everything from mild temps to cold below freezing nights. It's so light I've had customers buying two at a time to replace their single fleece hat for trips.

Nicksaari
03-19-2009, 18:19
so how much dollars and check rounds for this item?

Rcarver
03-19-2009, 18:53
I highly recomend this product. It looks even better in person. I would compare the quality to Western Mountaineering. I believe that it is made out of the same fabric that Western uses on the Flash jacket and vest. I had been looking for a product like this for several years. Thank you Black Rock Gear.

Old Grouse
03-19-2009, 18:59
On his site he says it's $49.00. Pretty neat.

BlackRock
03-19-2009, 19:35
I'm glad you like the hats RCarver! :D Much thanks for the Western Mountaineering quality props! Those guys make some of the nicest down gear I've seen.

As for the fabric, it's nearly identical to the Flash Jacket or the Mont-Bell UL Jackets, whether it comes from the same distributor or not I'm not sure. Western Mountaineerings newest stuff is labeled as "ExtremeLite" and "MicroLite XP" while Mont-Bell calls theirs "Ballistic Airtight".

I believe the ExtremeLite is just a Pertex Quantum while the MicroLite XP is closer to the Momentum. I base that on the matching 400 threadcount per square inch. It's also got a square 20d ripstop weave and is single side calendered which is the same as the MicroLite XP, so if it's not the same it's super close.

Now the Ballistic which is also a sub 1oz/sq/yd has a different weave and at 15d its one of the nicest downproof fabrics I've run across. It's got a beautiful double square weave design I'd love to get but it comes from Japan, so go figure where I'd get any of that. :-?

Here is some more info on the Momentum fabric I use:
Source: http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/fabric.php#BreathableWaterResistantFabrics


Momentum
1.05oz /sq/yd A 20dx20d nylon taffetta with single side heat calendering and state of the art DWR treatment. The surface is a flat black for speed drying. Also, it's made in the US. Momentum's tight weave adds to the DWR ability by virtue of the tight weave Momentum on our quilts.

Real Life Testing
#1: We continue to get frequent field reports that bivys with Momentum tops repelled all splashed and blown rain and snow under even the smallest tarps and that internal condensation was non-existent or at least far lower than any other bivy used before. Note: In particularly adverse humidity conditions, all bivys will experience some internal condensation. The amount varies with the bivy design, weather specifics, user's moisture output (sweat and exhalation) and bivy venting.
#2 We lined a bivy with tissue paper and then poured water on the top to form multiple shallow pools ( think: splashed or blown rain) of approx. .1 to .3 ozs and left it overnight undisturbed. The tissue stayed fairly dry and by moving the bivy all water ran off the top. (All tests with more generic 1.1 DWR's had some soak though, some really horrible!) if a lot water is soaking through, the wind is too and your losing heat.

Momentum Compared to 2006/7 Pertex Quantum
The closest lightweight dwr fabric to Momentum's performance found in our testing was Pertex Quantum. Momentum has the same 20d X 20d weave and the same final weight of 1.05oz/sq/yd. We do not know of anyone else that has directly tested Momentum against various other SUL breathable DWR fabrics (over a dozen) including 2006/7 Pertex Quantum in bivy tops and SUL bag/quilt shells like we have. In bivy and sleeping bag applications, we found them equally breathable but the Momentum had better water resistance and snag resistance. We suspect that this is due to Momentum's highly symmetrical weave that creates more uniform moisture venting intricacies in the weave that are of a smaller size but more numerous than Quantum's.
We feel that Momentum is the Best of the Best for our applications. You get what you pay for, and with Momentum that's true too. It was the most expensive raw fabric of all the light DWR fabrics we tested. NOTE: Complete head enclosure in any bivy sack is not recommended. Proper instruction is required and is not provided by MLD.

BlackRock
10-22-2009, 15:32
Down Testing Update - Wear and Cleaning - October 22nd, 2009

It's been seven months since I first started the experiment. I've had the down pillows pinned to my deck on the south side of my house. They got rained on, blown around and were subjected to alot of heat and sun this past summer.

At one point a squirrel decided he wanted one and took off with it across my yard and another time I found some crows out there trying to fly away with them. Luckily I didn't lose any but a couple got damaged and torn. The black pillow was ripped open by a crow so I had to fix that.

I put a grey patch on the black pillow as seen here so it's easily visible:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3514/4034709423_5d736b490d.jpg

So getting right to it I'll start with a couple of the main photo's showing the pillows. I'm trying to keep all comparative images identical to one another for the best possible comparison. I think, however, my lighting was a little better with the original shots yielding slightly brighter colors despite the obious fading thats happened.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/3365227007_94cd17d994.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2579/4034680535_33e041af13.jpg

The next set shows that in addition to some fading there could be some loss of loft. I would have expected these pillows to be very flat and tattered but they've held up well. Each day it would rain they'd bead up with water and if it rained heavy enough they'd start to absorb it and flatten out. Usually a bit of wind or sun would dry them out returning what looked to be most if not all the loft each day.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3450/3366047820_45dd8eb0dc.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2797/4035435284_658e6a4d15.jpg

Summary and Results:
It's obvious that the pillows have weathered, less than I would have expected, but there are some interesting results. For instance, the Black fabric barely faded. All three colors lost their initial "sheen" but the Red faded the most followed by the Blue. It must be the dying process on the fabrics. My guess is the red dye is simply the harshest process. Every time I make a hat out of the red its the softest to the touch even though all three colors are the same Momentum-MR fabric.

A closer look also yields a change in texture. The smoothness has changed and you can see a slightly ruffled look. The 20d weave has a pattern and some of the pattern appears to have raised more than the rest of the fabric. This may change after washing but for now I'd say the fabric looks "washed" and has lost it's crispness.

To be fair, I have had the pillows outside in the weather 24/7 for over 200 days, so unless you decide to move outside I doubt your outdoor products will weather as much as these. I'd take a guess that I've weathered these about 5 years based on days exposed to the elements.


I've got more pictures to upload and compare, next on the list are the close up shots of the fabric, loft and water repellency. I also plan to pull the seam on one bag and empty the down to take a look and see how it compares to the original down shots I took above.

I will also be washing each of the pillows and will try to compare Nikwax, ReviveX and regular laundry detergent to see which does the best. I should be able to compare water repellency again after washing and could go as far as seeing how well the ReviveX water repellent spray does in reviving the DWR coating. I'd also hope to see some color change again since they are fairly dirty at this point, but we'll see.

Any questions or ideas are welcome.

Enjoy,
Evan Cabodi
www.blackrockgear.com (http://www.blackrockgear.com)

Wags
10-23-2009, 16:57
BR i hope your business is doing well as it's evident you make excellent gear. your hats have been on a sort of 'way out there' wish list of mine since you posted here. i'd love to get one of your hats, and probably will in the next 3 years.

Two Tents
10-26-2009, 10:49
My hat just got here this AM. I am impressed! The thing is so light I thought the envelope was empty. I used the measure around the brow suggestion and the fit is sweet! I think I have my found favorite cold weather headgear cause I really like it already. Just my thoughts in case any one is thinking about getting one.

BlackRock
10-26-2009, 11:42
I vacuum seal and pack the hats in a recycled envelope for shipping now. The package weighs in at 1.8 ounces :) I call it "UL Thru-Shipping".

BlackRock
10-27-2009, 12:30
Down Testing Update - Loft Retention - October 27th, 2009

Over time, your down products will start to lose their loft. The small fibers of down get crushed repeatedly and start to break and lose their shape. I decided I'd try to see how well my own down would hold up over time. I basically wanted to answer the question as to whether or not wear and tear did in fact cause a loss of loft and whether or not I could actually measure it.

If you remember in the first test the down pillow measured in at approximately 15/16th of an inch shown here:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3572/3365226805_397d70cbb4.jpg

Over the past 7 months this pillow has been subjected to countless rain storms. It lived under the snow for a few weeks during the winter and has been attacked by crows and blown around on a daily basis.

After a day of rain the pillow would lose around half of it's loft and measure approximately 1/2 an inch. Over two or three days in solid rain it might get as thin as 1/4 of an inch thick. Each time it would regain it's loft on it's own simply drying out and being blown around.

Now for the actual measurements. As you can see below the tattered and worn sample still has a good amount of loft. The fabric is a bit faded but the down appears to still be doing it's job. My camera angle is slightly off from the first picture, but it looks to measure out very close to 7/8ths of an inch thick.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2560/4049597383_306dd4fd29.jpg

Summary and Results:
I'd consider the down lost anywhere from 1/16th to 1/8th inch of loft. Calculating the volume lost it yields a 7-13% reduction of loft over the last 7 months of constant exposure. Using those numbers I'd then estimate that over 3-5 years, your high quality down products may lose around 10% of their loft. I'm not sure how much that 10% transfers to product warmth, but it does show some measurable loss of loft meaning some loss of insulation in the product.

Next up on the list - Fabric Inspection and Water Repellency

Enjoy,
Evan Cabodi
www.blackrockgear.com (http://www.blackrockgear.com)

BlackRock
11-05-2009, 19:09
Down Testing Update - Fabric Inspection and Water Repellency - November 5th, 2009.

Another small update, this time focusing on fabric wear and the performance of the DWR.

Here is a before and after close up shot of the Momentum-MR.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3466/3366047962_4ec0884314.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2529/4078316877_3e38c4eb02.jpg

The first thing I notice is the color change. Over 7 months the fabric has faded. The Black fabric heald up the best followed by the Blue and Red. You'll also notice the weave looks to have changed. The "squares" look as if they rose but on closer inspection they are simply more faded than the rest of the fabric. I'm not sure if thats due to rubbing or maybe it's not affected the same during calendaring but it's definitely lighter.

The fabric is also not as "smooth". I call this "warping" in the fabric. There is probably a correct term but I haven't run across it. It appears as if some of the woven threads warp or bend. My guess is that it's tension within the fabric thats showing after repeated exposure to the elements. I've seen this in other products and one thing I'll be checking is whether this goes away after a good wash.

Next up: DWR Coating

Out of the box the Momentum's DWR coating is so good I'd almost question whether it could be used as a light rain shell with sealed seams and a couple layers! I've got one hat that's about a year old and has been washed 10+ times and the DWR coating still looks nearly as good as this first shot.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3623/3365226945_5711d3d0c9.jpg

Now... If you take a look at the second shot you'll see that the coating is starting to wear out. It's hard to show but after I shook this bag off I had little to no moisture in the pillow. Some of the fabric in the biggest spots had absorbed some moisture but most of it shed right off. It doesn't look as pretty with those perfectly repelled spheres of water, but it's still doing a pretty good job.

If I were to assign some sort of rating to the effectiveness of the DWR coating after 7 months I'd say it's about 60-70% of what it once was. I don't think there is really anyway to measure it but if I were to compare a standard nylon fabric to the Momentum while new I'd say this is still repelling more than half the water.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2631/4079074666_ccd38b38c3.jpg

Summary and Results:
Overall the fabric has held up well under the tough conditions. A little bit of fading occured and the material weave itself does not appear as smooth. I will compare the pillows a final time after washing to see if the texture of the fabric or the color improves at all. I've washed the momentum before and when the items come out they usually appear brighter and newer. We'll have to see on that one.

As for the DWR, it's still doing it's job. It's not as crisp as on day one but water still beads and lots of it's shed off. During the last few months in the rain I'd notice it absorbed the rain a bit quicker but that it still dried out and puffed up nicely. Because of this loss of DWR coating over time I'm going to add another test to the list and try out some of the ReviveX Spray on Water Repellent. I'll also check water repellency again after washing the pillows and see if that does anything as well.

Next up on the list - Down Inspection followed by the wash test.

Enjoy,
Evan Cabodi
www.blackrockgear.com (http://www.blackrockgear.com)