View Full Version : The AT: Recession proof?
blackyjones
03-10-2009, 08:00
I want to try and explore the effects the current (crappy) economy has on the trail experience and its hikers. i expect to see quite a few hikers out there as a result of recent job loss but how many? and will that number offset those putting off the hike because they are worried they will be replaced before they return and not being able to find another job? (heck, i just say turn around and do it again then) and what about restaraunts and hostels etc struggling and shutting down? i, for one, have gotten better prices on all my gear lately (for better or worse) because of this economy. how is it effecting potential hikers like myself? how will it effect the trail? the experience? your .02¢?
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44211
I'm not sure we will know much until maybe a few more months from now.
Its bound to have an impact of some kind, but who knows what.
fiddlehead
03-10-2009, 09:03
I think you'll see more hikers this year.
Of course, some will postpone cause they're scared of spending money, but i think more will go because they now have the time.
Just my guess.
What are the demographics of thru-hikers and section hikers, not counting day hikers?
How many in college years? How many 30-50? How many retirement age or near retirement age?
wrongway_08
03-10-2009, 09:43
1) Lot more people have the time due to job loss.
2) People who have gear are going to sell for cheap to make money.
3) Stresses for some will allow them to say the hell with it and go hiking.
4) Anyone who knows the A.T. hiker family, know that everyone pulls together to help - just what some people need, now that the economy is heading towards tanking.
5) Number 4 will bring some a-holes/users of the system - they will need to be weeded out.
6) I think its safe to say there will be more hikers out there - but there will be more drop outs also, people just looking to get away and jumping in without knowing what their getting into.
wrongway_08
03-10-2009, 09:45
What are the demographics of thru-hikers and section hikers, not counting day hikers?
How many in college years? How many 30-50? How many retirement age or near retirement age?
Mixed, probably cant go off that - everone hikes. Changes every year. This year will most likely be really screwed up.
Next year should be when it gets really interesting.
I met 9 NOBOs between Unicoi Gap, and Neel gap from 2/22 - 2/24. Four said they were collecting unemployment while attempting a thru-hike - that's 44% of a very limited sampling.
I'd guess this hurts the service providers more than the hikers. Hostel and motel operators won't be so quick to offer slack packing or give extra free shuttles or rides. Also folks may be trying to spend less on their hikes. Restaurants will do fine, hikers always gotta eat.
As mentioned above I think plenty of people probably took this as a good chance to go and hike, while some used it as an excuse to cling to their jobs. There are always young folks who are out there on savings or family assistance and others who took cashed in their tax return and hit the trail.
How do you collect unemployment while hiking?
I thought you had to go in every couple of weeks to show that you are actively looking for a job or have things changed in the internet era where you can do it online.
Slo-go'en
03-10-2009, 10:57
Maybe there will be more squaters living in shelters - better bring a tent!
Gray Blazer
03-10-2009, 11:01
I met 9 NOBOs between Unicoi Gap, and Neel gap from 2/22 - 2/24. Four said they were collecting unemployment while attempting a thru-hike - that's 44% of a very limited sampling.
That's prolly more accurate than a lot of polls.
4eyedbuzzard
03-10-2009, 11:29
How do you collect unemployment while hiking?
I thought you had to go in every couple of weeks to show that you are actively looking for a job or have things changed in the internet era where you can do it online.
A lot of states do it all online or by phone now or at least offer that option. Realistically, there are just not a lot of jobs available right now. That said though, regardless of how tough the job market is right now, some people might find devoting one's full time to hiking, rather than "actively seeking employment" as normally required while collecting unemployment benefits, to be unfairly and perhaps even illegally taking advantage of the unemployment compensation system.
Good new thread, even tho this topic was sort of covered in another thread earlier this year.
I think there will be more thru-hikers—but especially more section hikers doing larger sections this year. Many of them will try to go on the cheap, understandably so. I hope they remember to treat service providers as they themselves would wish to be treated.
While motels, hostels, shuttle providers, outfitters, etc. will hopefully still be in business, they are suffering too. Less business, but with the same bills to pay. It would be a good idea for hikers to coordinate their needs with one another to share rooms, shuttles, etc. rather than expect these providers to cut their prices dramatically. That way the cost to each individual hiker is less, but the provider still can survive financially.
We're all in the same fix. ALDHA's Endangered Services campaign was never more relevant.
CrumbSnatcher
03-10-2009, 12:49
How do you collect unemployment while hiking?
I thought you had to go in every couple of weeks to show that you are actively looking for a job or have things changed in the internet era where you can do it online.in most caes it would probably be illegal. you must be physically available for work at least 4 days a week in case work is offered. and make at least two contacts a week while unemployed. unless you are attached to that company with plans of returning then you don't need to make contacts. this is nebraska unemployment rules, every state is different im sure.
4eyedbuzzard
03-10-2009, 13:26
in most caes it would probably be illegal. you must be physically available for work at least 4 days a week in case work is offered. and make at least two contacts a week while unemployed. unless you are attached to that company with plans of returning then you don't need to make contacts. this is nebraska unemployment rules, every state is different im sure.
The particulars vary a bit, but Unemployment Insurance Fraud can be prosecuted as a felony theft in most states.
atraildreamer
03-10-2009, 13:41
A lot of states do it all online or by phone now or at least offer that option. Realistically, there are just not a lot of jobs available right now. That said though, regardless of how tough the job market is right now, some people might find devoting one's full time to hiking, rather than "actively seeking employment" as normally required while collecting unemployment benefits, to be unfairly and perhaps even illegally taking advantage of the unemployment compensation system.
The job situation in RI is pathetic. We are #2 in the nation in high unemployment rate. The RI unemployment office is 4-8 weeks behind on processing applications. That means some (many) applicants have not even had a chance to speak to a live person in that time. This despite the fact that the state has called in retirees from the department for 30 days to help process the applicants. They have renewed the retirees for another 30 days, and yet, the end is not yet in sight for those employed who need their benefits now. I suspect that you could file for benefits, start your thruhike and probably be thru Virginia before you heard from RI.
4eyedbuzzard
03-10-2009, 13:50
The job situation in RI is pathetic. We are #2 in the nation in high unemployment rate. The RI unemployment office is 4-8 weeks behind on processing applications. That means some (many) applicants have not even had a chance to speak to a live person in that time. This despite the fact that the state has called in retirees from the department for 30 days to help process the applicants. They have renewed the retirees for another 30 days, and yet, the end is not yet in sight for those employed who need their benefits now. I suspect that you could file for benefits, start your thruhike and probably be thru Virginia before you heard from RI.
I don't doubt it. States are overwhelmed not just in manpower but also many of their unemployment trust funds are empty or going broke fast. You'd think they'd hire some of the unemployed for more easily trained positions rather than recalling the retirees, but that might make too much sense. I'm sure that there are a lot of laid off people who could quickly learn how to process a claim.
How do you collect unemployment while hiking?
I thought you had to go in every couple of weeks to show that you are actively looking for a job or have things changed in the internet era where you can do it online.
In PA, you don't have to go in at all. you just call on the phone ona cell phone and certify that you are available and actively looking for work. The state does not have enough people to check up on you. they just assume that it is in your own best interest to look for work. However it is a crime of some kind if you accept the money and are not actually looking for work. If someone reports you to the unemployment office, you are in big trouble.
Panzer
drastic_quench
03-10-2009, 14:51
In PA, you don't have to go in at all. you just call on the phone ona cell phone and certify that you are available and actively looking for work. The state does not have enough people to check up on you. they just assume that it is in your own best interest to look for work. However it is a crime of some kind if you accept the money and are not actually looking for work. If someone reports you to the unemployment office, you are in big trouble.
Panzer
"Hey, I'm out here every day offering to carry someone's pack for $50 an hour. It's not my fault there's no takers!"
Mrs Baggins
03-10-2009, 15:52
I guess if the person is single, jobless, completely debt free, and has some kind of savings to use for hiking, then it's not a hard thing to do. If they're married and their spouse is earning enough to pay the rent and bills, and using a few thousand to hike is not a hardship, then they'll go. But a jobless person with a non-working spouse (maybe there are babies/toddlers at home that need care) and/or kids, a mortgage or rent to pay, car payment, etc - that person needs to stay right where they are and do their best to get another job. They can't just say "Ah screw it! I'm going hiking!" We sold a house, right before the real estate bust, that provided us with plenty of cash to hike/travel for a few months, and kept the bills paid. We only freed ourselves from the mortgage - car insurance, car payments, education loans, storage costs- all of those things have to go on getting paid hike or no hike. If my son lost his job tomorrow he could go hiking - no debts. If my daughter lost her job she'd have to stay put and look for another one - car and education loan payments.
hopefulhiker
03-10-2009, 18:58
I see this as an opporunity.. Do you know how many parents would love to get rid of their teenages for the summer? Experienced hikers could finance their hike by offering themselves up as "Trail Guides" and have all their food, transportation, shelter paid for and make a little extra to boot!
LIhikers
03-10-2009, 20:39
This pertains to unemployment insurance in New York.
You have to call in or check in on-line once a week. It seems that when you call in they check where from. You should call in from a phone, or cell phone, with a NY area code or they may question where you are and why. This info comes from an experience my wife's friend had.
fiddlehead
03-10-2009, 20:49
What if you hear about a job in NC and are going down there to check it out?
I didn't know looking for work was geographically restricted?
wrongway_08
03-10-2009, 21:00
For the most part, youd be okay to call in while on the trail. You are allowed to apply online for jobs. (correct me if im wrong, but didnt see any states listed as this being a no-no).
1) All your doing is calling in and sayn you did look for work.
2) As long as you applied online for a few jobs that week, your not lying or doing anything wrong.
3) Pretty much from any where on the trail, you can get back home within 2 days at the most. So being avaiable for work wouldnt be an issue.
Still we are the #1 nation at abuse of any system that makes us look lazy as a nation compared to any other place. So its no surprize that some will just call and check in without doing a damn thing.
fiddlehead
03-10-2009, 21:47
Reminds me of a story i heard when i got out of the Navy.
A guy who was from Missouri, went back home after his release and signed up for unemployment.
The person in the office asked what kind of job he was looking for?
He said, "I'd like to continue to do what i did in the Navy"
"And what was that?" was the reply.
"Lighthouse keeper"
Didn't know America was #1 for abusing the system in the world.
Having lived in both, i would've guessed Thailand.
Lots of corruption here. It is part of the culture.
I saw three hikers in Troutville today. I never see them this early this far north. I think more people may be hiking and started earlier. I have noticed that the AT parking lot in town is full almost everyday on the weekend as well.
Rockhound
03-11-2009, 00:00
An individuals happiness is what is most important here. There is more to life than work. If you are fortunate enough to be collecting from something that you paid into for however many years and that money and new found time allows you to hike, and that makes you happy then good for you. If watching that money dwindle at home while you pay bills and jump through hoops fulfilling the requirements of some governmental agency makes you happy then good for you to.
High Life
03-11-2009, 00:13
in 07' my age group was almost non-existent..
chrishowe11
03-11-2009, 09:02
daddy government! save me!
4eyedbuzzard
03-11-2009, 10:13
An individuals happiness is what is most important here. There is more to life than work. If you are fortunate enough to be collecting from something that you paid into for however many years and that money and new found time allows you to hike, and that makes you happy then good for you. If watching that money dwindle at home while you pay bills and jump through hoops fulfilling the requirements of some governmental agency makes you happy then good for you to.
By filing a claim and collecting the benefits you agree to abide by the "requirements of some governmental agency", aka the law. If you don't want to abide by the law, then don't file a claim. Save up your money and pay for your hiking vacation. Unemployment Insurance isn't an entitlement based on lifetime contribution, and it wasn't created and doesn't exist for the purpose of helping finance people's hiking vacations.
Yeah, I'm sure it's pretty easy to abuse the system, break the law, and get away with it. But if you're going to, at least be honest enough to admit it to yourself.
EDIT: Hey, I'm not saying that people shouldn't do their normal or some reasonable amount of hiking while on unemployment, being unemployed isn't supposed to be a punishment. Just saying that UI isn't supposed to be used to finance a long distance hiking vacation. There's no way I'm believeing that anybody can thru-hike and honestly be looking very hard for employment or available for interviews and/or work at the same time--even with cell phones and internet technology. And I doubt that state unemployment commissions would find it within their regulations either.
Vagrant Squirrel
03-11-2009, 14:46
An individuals happiness is what is most important here. There is more to life than work. If you are fortunate enough to be collecting from something that you paid into for however many years and that money and new found time allows you to hike, and that makes you happy then good for you. If watching that money dwindle at home while you pay bills and jump through hoops fulfilling the requirements of some governmental agency makes you happy then good for you to.
I like the way you think my friend. Do what makes you happy and **** the government, because they sure do it to us...
Apply for jobs when you hit trail towns. Maybe have the people you contact sign something stating you were seeking employment with them. Looking for work doesn't have to be in the town you live in, does it?
Pedaling Fool
03-12-2009, 09:15
Clairification: Anyone that collects unemployment while hiking the trail or anything else besides looking for a job are the bad apples, did not mean to imply people collecting unemployment while looking for a job are bad.
4eyedbuzzard
03-12-2009, 09:25
I don't see where collecting unemployment is a bad thing--we all pay into it and it is there to help out if you need it. I just don't like to see people abuse it. You're supposed to be actively seeking, ready, and willing to go to work--not just pretending to do so. Nobody out thru-hiking is putting much effort into simultaneously finding a job. Probably just my old-fashioned duty, citizenship, personal responsibility, etc mindset at work.
Pedaling Fool
03-12-2009, 09:30
I don't see where collecting unemployment is a bad thing--we all pay into it and it is there to help out if you need it. I just don't like to see people abuse it. You're supposed to be actively seeking, ready, and willing to go to work--not just pretending to do so. Nobody out thru-hiking is putting much effort into simultaneously finding a job. Probably just my old-fashioned duty, citizenship, personal responsibility, etc mindset at work.
I agree.
What do you think would happen if a thru-hiker, receiving unemployment since before Springer, actually went on a job interview (to "prove" he or she was looking...) for a retail clerk's job in, say, Pearisburg? And surprise! He or she was offered the job!
Think he or she would:
1) Accept the job and quit the hike?
2) Turn down the job, continue the hike, and continue to file unemployment claims?
Desert Reprobate
03-12-2009, 10:55
Apply for jobs when you hit trail towns. Maybe have the people you contact sign something stating you were seeking employment with them. Looking for work doesn't have to be in the town you live in, does it?
Keep copies of your job applications and you can deduct the travel expenses.
4eyedbuzzard
03-12-2009, 11:26
What do you think would happen if a thru-hiker, receiving unemployment since before Springer, actually went on a job interview (to "prove" he or she was looking...) for a retail clerk's job in, say, Pearisburg? And surprise! He or she was offered the job!
Think he or she would:
1) Accept the job and quit the hike?
2) Turn down the job, continue the hike, and continue to file unemployment claims?
It's the ethical dilemma of our time.:rolleyes:
of course another honest alternative is to go on your hike and when you get home from you hike then apply for unemployment. One big advantage of doing things this way is that you will then have about 9 months (I think) of unemployment checks waiting for you while you look for work.
Panzer
ps if you do collect unemployment while hiking, which is dishonest, don't brag to everyone you meet that you are doing that. someone may report you, especially if they know your real name.