View Full Version : Why buy a trekking pole?
OTHER than needing the adjustability for your tarptent or other shelter needs, for just stability and hiking, what is the reason for buying one (or a pair) of these? I looked at some at REI to see what all the fuss was about, and they ALL seemed relativley lightweight and extremely fragile. I felt like I could take any of them over my knee, and probably not snap it in two, but at least bend it pretty good! It seems to me like a traditional, wood walking staff is a much better choice for strictly stability while hiking. I have several that I found in the woods while hiking, usually carve and whittle on them at night in front of the fire.
I am NOT knocking those of you who use them, just seriously wanting the benefits over a pole vs. a stick! Other than the weight savings of a few ounces, why do you choose a pole? Maybe I can see if you are boulder jumping and needed the carbide tip on one, but for the AT and other, mostly dirt trails, it seems to me that a stick would be a better choice, it just seems stronger.
Of course, if you're a gear hound, then that's a good excuse too :-)
Peace.
warraghiyagey
03-11-2009, 09:23
I use sticks that nature made. . . was lucky to find them. The weight doesn't really seem to count as the load is not on your pack. Saved me from a lot of potential slips/falls, save on the knees, help with turns, slowing, climbing. . . I love my sticks. . .
Frick Frack
03-11-2009, 09:31
Maybe I can see if you are boulder jumping and needed the carbide tip on one, but for the AT and other, mostly dirt trails, it seems to me that a stick would be a better choice, it just seems stronger.
You obviously have not hiked in S. ME & NH....those "carbide tips" saved my back porch a 1000 times over on trails that had everything BUT dirt. My wife did "snap" 3 of them, hince her trail name "Cracker". I did see snapped sticks though....
Rockhound
03-11-2009, 09:37
Poles have those straps that assist in breaking wrists and separating shoulders if you are looking for an excuse to get off the trail. They make that wonderful metallic clickity-clack sound all day every time they hit a rock. They also make for great fireside conversations where people can talk about how theirs bent, broke, got lost and how much everyone paid for their poles. Some of them even come with a compass. That alone should be worth the $40-$60-$80 or more people pay for them.:rolleyes:
boarstone
03-11-2009, 09:37
The only benefit would be-- sticks over poles--as before mentioned you can replace your wooden "stick" anywhere in the woods, not so if your Leki poles break.
max patch
03-11-2009, 09:38
People buy em because they see em in Backpacker magazine ads and think they need em. Sheep.
Before you go calling folks names for doing something different from what you do, Max, remember that what works for one doesn't necessarily work for others. I carry poles because they take a significant amount of pressure off my knees, help with balance on uneven terrain and are lighter than sticks. I like them and they work for me. If you don't like them and/or they don't work for you, then that's fine, but there's no need for childish name calling. Hike your own hike and pick your own gear.
jonathanb23
03-11-2009, 09:55
People buy em because they see em in Backpacker magazine ads and think they need em. Sheep.
Mine have saved my big butt MANY times...never broken one myself.
Obviously looking at them at REI gives you a real trail feel. I suggest trying a pair one time. They work for some and not for others.
As for sheep...Ewe hike your hike and I'll hike mine.
warraghiyagey
03-11-2009, 09:55
Before you go calling folks names for doing something different from what you do, Max, remember that what works for one doesn't necessarily work for others. I carry poles because they take a significant amount of pressure off my knees, help with balance on uneven terrain and are lighter than sticks. I like them and they work for me. If you don't like them and/or they don't work for you, then that's fine, but there's no need for childish name calling. Hike your own hike and pick your own gear.
What he said. . .
Another pole thread to argue in - cool! I use them because they are strong (same pair of Leki's for 10 years or so, with over 1,000 miles on them), lightweight, adjustable for going up / down hill, have alleviated the knee pain that i used to experience, and have innumerable times saved me from a fall. I got mine after receiving a $100 gift certificate for being Galyon's "customer of the month." (that's a store that I miss.) Mine retailed for $130 then, so I got them for $30.
If that's "sheeple" behavior, then count me in. :rolleyes:
Desert Reprobate
03-11-2009, 10:07
It is nice to be able to collapse the poles and secure them to your pack when you are trying to catch a ride to town.
I nearly gave up hiking about 4yrs ago due to a reoccuring knee injury suffered playing hockey when I was young.. Over those 4yrs I attempted a few 3-5 day trips all of which caused agony and a wish for it to be over. Well after a year or two of constant whining to my girlfriend about missing hiking and the like, she suprised me with walking poles... I was more than skeptical at first, and likely was a bit over zealous in my remarks about the poles... Something along the lines of, "Now what the h#ll am I supposed to do with those? Impale myself with them once the pain gets too bad?" And to be honest, I always secretly loathed hikers that used leki's... But I gave them a shot on a few trips, and to my suprise, they worked wonders... I still have pain, but it was more than tolerable... It got me out hiking on a regular basis again... Feel free to loath me, I deserve it, but leki's will be a part of my hike forever and i'm thankful for them. They gave me a second chance on the trail!
People buy em because they see em in Backpacker magazine ads and think they need em. Sheep.
I beg to differ with you on this one. At the start of a NOBO thru about 25% of the hikers are not using trecking poles. At the end of a NOBO thru, 95% of the folkes who make it to Katahdin are using poles. Did this help them to susceed? I think so.:-?
My Black Diamonds (think I paid $70 for these)have been shipped to mfg for repair...problem with the glue drying out preventing them from locking/collapsing. Meanwhile I bought a $15 Walmart pair and they've been holding up fine. I'm old and I NEED my poles, especially going downhill. They provide great lateral balance.
-Bolo
CrumbSnatcher
03-11-2009, 10:11
Before you go calling folks names for doing something different from what you do, Max, remember that what works for one doesn't necessarily work for others. I carry poles because they take a significant amount of pressure off my knees, help with balance on uneven terrain and are lighter than sticks. I like them and they work for me. If you don't like them and/or they don't work for you, then that's fine, but there's no need for childish name calling. Hike your own hike and pick your own gear.
its like going from 2 wheel drive to 4 wheel drive
OK, I understand taking the pressure off of your knees and back and stuff, but won't a stick from the woods do the same thing? Just asking? Like I said, if it works for you, then that's great. I'm just trying to see if there's something I'm missing by using a stick instead of buying the poles (which I have no problem doing, it's not about the $$$). It sounds kind of like sleeping pads, it's a personal preference and your what you found works for yourself. Maybe I'll get a set and take them out, if I don't like them, I could sell them I guess.
To me, the big difference between sticks and poles are weight. Good lightweight poles are a lot lighter than sticks. That may not mean much to you standing still, but think about how many times you swing that stick back and forth over the course of a hike. If you're swinging something lighter than the stick each time, it'll be lighter, and hence, easier over the length of the hike. This will take less toll on your arms and shoulders than the stick will. But, again, go with what works for you.
Maybe I'll get a set and take them out, if I don't like them, I could sell them I guess.
Get them at REI. If you don't like them, you can always return them under REI's return policy. If you return them, they'll just sell them again at the next Garage Sale at their store. I got a new set of poles last year that retailed for $140 at the Garage Sale for $26. They were returned because they got dirty. :rolleyes::D
Rockhound
03-11-2009, 11:18
As I have previously mentioned I use sticks not poles, but if you do choose to go the hiking pole route be sure to get adjustable poles so you can fit them into a dryer. No sense hiking with wet poles.:rolleyes:
Many Walks
03-11-2009, 11:22
I have Black Diamond Terra CF and Leki Super Makalu poles. The BD's are by far my favorite with the snap locks and broad top cork handles. These are great for pushing myself up high rocks and maintaining balance in streams and steep downhills. They have features that simply aren't found in a stick from the woods. At 34 yrs I didn't see a need for sticks either, but we did meet a couple about that age in Glencliff where a thru hiker's boyfriend was going to hike with her for a few weeks. We recommended knee braces and sticks for him since he was just starting cold at that point and trying to keep up with a seasoned thru hiker. He said his knees were great and didn't need anything like that...sort of chuckling. We saw them again later in a hut in the Whites and he was about in tears. He'd all but blown out his knees and wasn't sure if he could make it out. Everyone needs to determine what works for them, but some places require every advantage you can get to make it through, while enjoying the journey. As a note, you will be boulder jumping on the AT. Enjoy your hike!
Alligator
03-11-2009, 11:28
OK, I understand taking the pressure off of your knees and back and stuff, but won't a stick from the woods do the same thing? Just asking? Like I said, if it works for you, then that's great. I'm just trying to see if there's something I'm missing by using a stick instead of buying the poles (which I have no problem doing, it's not about the $$$). It sounds kind of like sleeping pads, it's a personal preference and your what you found works for yourself. Maybe I'll get a set and take them out, if I don't like them, I could sell them I guess.I just retired a pair of Lekis after 11 years or so of use. I picked up a pair of Black Diamonds. I like the BD's locking mechanism much better then the Leki's internal expander. I never bent my Leki's but did replace the internal expanders, I think twice and the tips I think twice as well.
Someone mentioned the tips as being a factor. I concur, the carbide tips grab better than a much larger stick end.
Also, switching from a fairly old pair of trekking poles to a newer set, the BD's have a better set of straps. The are specifically designed to transfer load to the arms when used properly. The straps on my Leki's where very old and stiff and did not lend themselves well to the appropriate grip.
I ran into a guy a few weeks back while hiking. He was an old school, Grizzly Adams type fellow (in his twenties though I'd say). Leather packbag, wool clothing, pot hanging off his pack, and I swear I think he had a fur blanket. He was asking me about whether the trail was still icy, and that he had fallen a few times over the last two days. I said you should get yourself a set of poles. He said oh, I have a hiking stick. Now, I had nearly fallen a number of times myself but hadn't gone down due to my trekking poles. The tips were grabbing into the ice where a pole would likely not.
I still use my hickory hiking staff though when going on slower hikes.
seanb724
03-11-2009, 11:32
Besides the aforementioned "saving the knees, hips, and back," all of which are extremely true for some us, poles also can take as much as 15-20% of the weight off your legs on uphills. I fly up hills because I am not just using my legs to power up, but my legs also.
One thing that is interesting. I did not start using poles until I started carrying my kids (one at a time! :-) ) in a backpack -- and my wife's pro photo gear!, and then it was due to safety. Poles definitely can save your a-- many times over!
As for poles vs. sticks, poles are lighter, stronger, adjustable, some have shock absorption, etc. In my mind there is no comparison. Now if I forgot my poles, are a pole broke, I would not hesitate to use a stick.
flemdawg1
03-11-2009, 11:43
I got a pair of Outdoor Products poles from Walmart for Valentines Day. They use Flick-locks instead the the twisting expander locks. $12.88 each.
flemdawg1
03-11-2009, 11:45
I've also never broken a trekking poles in 3 years of using them, but I have broken afew wooden sticks. I got what I paid for them I guess.
Rockhound
03-11-2009, 11:46
The big argument here seems to be weight weight weight. The difference is negligible. They are not going into your pack. If you have only hiked with poles and never with sticks don't use the weight argument. It's like someone bashing hammocks that has never used one.
flemdawg1
03-11-2009, 12:00
Weight is a valid argument because we are comparing alternative means for the same job. Why don't you just bug off, we get it you don't like poles.
Alligator
03-11-2009, 12:04
The big argument here seems to be weight weight weight. The difference is negligible. They are not going into your pack. If you have only hiked with poles and never with sticks don't use the weight argument. It's like someone bashing hammocks that has never used one.Boots don't go into a pack either but people concern themselves with weight there as well. Ounces are ounces wherever you lose them, your body is still moving the weight. I don't consider weight foremost either. I didn't run out and buy the lightest trekking poles I could, other features were more important.
I go with
1. Knee help through stability and load transfer.
2. Collapsibility for use with my tarp.
3. Improved ground/surface contact.
The big argument here seems to be weight weight weight. The difference is negligible. They are not going into your pack. If you have only hiked with poles and never with sticks don't use the weight argument. It's like someone bashing hammocks that has never used one.Acutally the difference isn't negligible when you consider how many times you swing a pole or stick on a hike. It's all a matter of how many times you have to move a given weight, be it pole or stick. It's simple physics, really. I've used both sticks and poles. I choose poles. :D
The big argument here seems to be weight weight weight. The difference is negligible. They are not going into your pack. If you have only hiked with poles and never with sticks don't use the weight argument. It's like someone bashing hammocks that has never used one.
I have used both. Greatly prefer poles for the following reasons:
* weight - and I would argue that the weight is not negligible over a multi-day hike
* poles with properly adjusted straps swing naturally on my arm/hand as I walk with very little effort to grasp the pole. Very different from hiking with a stick, even one with a strap.
* using two poles gets me in a rhythm that i find hard to duplicate without the poles.
* I find two poles more helpful on uphills than the one stick.
My experience only - what works for me, sheeple that i am :cool:. That being said, my son and I both have our hickory poles that we decorate with hiking staff emblems for every trail that we go on.... (his also has the emblems for his scouting ranks - currently Star, about to make Life!)
flemdawg1
03-11-2009, 12:18
OTHER than needing the adjustability for your tarptent or other shelter needs, for just stability and hiking, what is the reason for buying one (or a pair) of these? I looked at some at REI to see what all the fuss was about, and they ALL seemed relativley lightweight and extremely fragile. I felt like I could take any of them over my knee, and probably not snap it in two, but at least bend it pretty good! It seems to me like a traditional, wood walking staff is a much better choice for strictly stability while hiking. I have several that I found in the woods while hiking, usually carve and whittle on them at night in front of the fire.
I am NOT knocking those of you who use them, just seriously wanting the benefits over a pole vs. a stick! Other than the weight savings of a few ounces, why do you choose a pole? Maybe I can see if you are boulder jumping and needed the carbide tip on one, but for the AT and other, mostly dirt trails, it seems to me that a stick would be a better choice, it just seems stronger.
Of course, if you're a gear hound, then that's a good excuse too :-)
Peace.
What you are describing in the "bend it over my knee" part is not what trekking poles are designed to do. That is what is called in engineering-speak a bending moment. Trekking poles are designed to be axially compressed instead, the resistance to compression loads is what you push/pull on whenever you use them.
Rockhound
03-11-2009, 12:22
I've used both poles and sticks also and prefer sticks. At the end of the day I've had a sore back, legs and feet but my arms are always fine even with all that additional weight. In my humble opinion anyone who uses poles should not be allowed on the trail and even fined or punished severely. Perhaps being caned by ones own hiking poles would be an appropriate method. Yes I'm joking. Calm down there flemdawg. HYOH
What you are describing in the "bend it over my knee" part is not what trekking poles are designed to do. That is what is called in engineering-speak a bending moment. Trekking poles are designed to be axially compressed instead, the resistance to compression loads is what you push/pull on whenever you use them.
I am a structural engineer, I totally understand that the lateral loading is not the intended purpose, I just am thinking that in the event of a fall, a body/pack falling into the side of a pole seems like it would snap it pretty easily. I would just hate to bend a $100 pole where I could just get a new stick off the ground! But hey, I'm not knocking them at all. Just like UL'ers would laugh at me and my Kelty Redcloud pack, but I love it, and don't mind a bit of weight I get in trade for the bomb-proofness I get with that pack. Hell, I pack extra crap on short trips for the extra workout!
sherrill
03-11-2009, 12:46
My experience - hiking for 30 years with staffs that I made from poplar, etc.
Then a friend gave my wife and I a pair (he was upgrading). I still use a walking stick most times, but find the Leki's ability to collapse a nice alternative when I need it, like traveling by plane to get to a trail.
garlic08
03-11-2009, 12:51
I think it's a great question and it made me think a little, since I'm a pole user.
I've been backcountry skiing for much longer than I've been thru hiking. You cannot travel by ski without poles. They are a huge component of your propulsion as well as balance. Adjustability, good grips, the right basket for the snow conditions and adjustable straps are all pretty important. I couldn't imagine skiing very well with homemade wood sticks. So I guess it was pretty natural to take the backcountry ski poles along on thru hikes. The grips and straps seem very important to me, the way I use them. I switch out the powder basket for a trekking dome in the summer, and that helps in rocks and mud. All sorts of reasons for me.
That being said, I do not take poles on day hikes, but they seem to make a huge difference on the long trails.
Frick Frack
03-11-2009, 12:55
I've used a pair of old Leki's with the worthless shock absorbers in them and they were heavy and the rubber grips blistered my hands (they were noisy too). I now have a pair of Black Diamonds that are all carbon, make no noise, are extremely ergonomic (very important to me because I have bad wrists), have a comfortable foam grip, and are very light weight. I think there is something to be said for using sticks, and admire users of them, but I'm all for poles myself.
To me, the big difference between sticks and poles are weight.And the straps. If you aren't bearing your body weight on the straps then you aren't using/adjusting them properly. And if you aren't going to use straps the way they were designed, then save your money and just use a stick (or two). The secret to knee and leg stress relief is in the straps bearing the body weight, so you don't wear out your hands/fingers trying to bear the weight. It is my opinion that the serious detractors from the benefit of trekking poles never have figured out/experienced this! :)
ColdFire
03-11-2009, 13:08
I would buy some inexpensive poles and you try them out yourself so you can see the difference. Once you do and if you are using them properly I doubt you will ever go back to sticks.
This site is a good source for how to properly use poles or sticks and discusses the pros and cons. http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/poles.htm
flemdawg1
03-11-2009, 14:45
thanks for the link CF!
Blissful
03-11-2009, 15:45
Several threads for the reasons to and not to use poles. Also on the use of sticks as well. You can do a search.
I have bad knees. And a bad ankle. Hence my need for the stability of poles. And they got me to the end.
But my sixteen year old used a wood hiking staff he found in the woods.
Blue Jay
03-11-2009, 17:12
The secret to knee and leg stress relief is in the straps bearing the body weight, so you don't wear out your hands/fingers trying to bear the weight. It is my opinion that the serious detractors from the benefit of trekking poles never have figured out/experienced this! :)
Adjusting straps is not a secret and not even remotely hard. Detractors can merely see beyond the placebo effect, the marketing and religious peer pressure. Just read back thru this virtual religion of pole worshipers. People walked, carrying weight, for the entire evolution of man until the pole religion arose 10 years ago. Now people actually believe they cannot walk without poles, you even see them in Malls now. Soon they will be providing babies with them at birth.
Blue Jay
03-11-2009, 17:16
At the start of a NOBO thru about 25% of the hikers are not using trecking poles. At the end of a NOBO thru, 95% of the folkes who make it to Katahdin are using poles.
Peer pressure affects 95% of people off the trail as well. There are thousands of completely worthless products that are sold every day. Leki is just Ronco for hikers.
Peer pressure affects 95% of people off the trail as well. There are thousands of completely worthless products that are sold every day. Leki is just Ronco for hikers.
Perhaps. But I know using ski poles has made my hikes more enjoyable. Perhaps when I am a more experienced hiker I'll know better? ;)
Be careful of blanket statements. They are usually not true. :)
ColdFire
03-11-2009, 17:39
lol yea when I grow up to be a better hiker I too shall cast aside my poles/sticks.
And btw man has been walking with a stick since the dawn of time :p
Adjusting straps is not a secret and not even remotely hard. Detractors can merely see beyond the placebo effect, the marketing and religious peer pressure. Just read back thru this virtual religion of pole worshipers. People walked, carrying weight, for the entire evolution of man until the pole religion arose 10 years ago. Now people actually believe they cannot walk without poles, you even see them in Malls now. Soon they will be providing babies with them at birth.Check you meds BJ . . . you aren't making any sense . . . just babbling garbage.
I nearly gave up hiking about 4yrs ago due to a reoccuring knee injury suffered playing hockey when I was young.. Over those 4yrs I attempted a few 3-5 day trips all of which caused agony and a wish for it to be over. Well after a year or two of constant whining to my girlfriend about missing hiking and the like, she suprised me with walking poles... I was more than skeptical at first, and likely was a bit over zealous in my remarks about the poles... Something along the lines of, "Now what the h#ll am I supposed to do with those? Impale myself with them once the pain gets too bad?" And to be honest, I always secretly loathed hikers that used leki's... But I gave them a shot on a few trips, and to my suprise, they worked wonders... I still have pain, but it was more than tolerable... It got me out hiking on a regular basis again... Feel free to loath me, I deserve it, but leki's will be a part of my hike forever and i'm thankful for them. They gave me a second chance on the trail!
Nicely put. I walked over 1900 miles last year with one staff. When I got off the trail in souther ME my knees were hurting badly. I was warned in the Smokies by the ridgerunner that I should get 2 hiking poles or throw the one I had away. I didn't listen but I should have. This year when I return to complete the trail I plan to have two hiking poles. I've read all the threads for the last 5 months on this subject and have decided to go with the el-cheap-o's unless I can find some used Leki's at an el-cheap-o price. BTW, I wore between 3 and 4 inches off my one hickory stick on that walk.
Happy hiking. :sun
Peer pressure affects 95% of people off the trail as well. There are thousands of completely worthless products that are sold every day. Leki is just Ronco for hikers.Ok, you don't like poles. We get it. But don't crap on those of us who do. It's just plain childish and you only serve to make yourself appear quite ignorant. Hike your own hike and pick your own gear. You're not responsible for anyone else's, so lay off, man.
drastic_quench
03-11-2009, 18:09
And the straps. If you aren't bearing your body weight on the straps then you aren't using/adjusting them properly. And if you aren't going to use straps the way they were designed, then save your money and just use a stick (or two). The secret to knee and leg stress relief is in the straps bearing the body weight, so you don't wear out your hands/fingers trying to bear the weight. It is my opinion that the serious detractors from the benefit of trekking poles never have figured out/experienced this! :)
This is the most correct response. It's all about using the straps to let your entire arms take a lot of weight, not just your hands. Yes, you can put a strap on a stick or staff too if you pick the right height, but you might find it a pain to adjust its height on ups and downs.
When I hike with my daughter I carry a big stick.
One big advantage of a large wooden pole is that it can be used for self defense. The adjustable aluminum or carbon fiber poles have little value in self defense.
That being said I still use the adjustable aluminum pols because they are easier to travel with. Also when you come to places where you have to climb with both hands you can collapse to poles and attach them to your pack.
Panzer
got to go. were heading out to dinner in sun sunny florida...:):):)
Your point about being able to break them over your knee isn't really valid- They're simply not designed to be strong in that way. It's like a 2x4: Vertically, it can support a tremendous amount of weight, but you can easily snap it in half by laying it horizontally on some blocks and jumping on it.
I've broken many segments myself, comes with the territory. Always had them replaced by Leki. God, those people probably hate me...
I use trekking poles because they take a tremendous load off my knees when going downhill, and allow me to use more of my body (such as my arms and core muscles) when climbing and descending. I have thru-hiked long trails with and without poles. THEY WORK.
They allow for much greater stability when fording rivers and streams, allow for greater stability and safety on technical terrain, can prevent post-holing in many scenarios when used with snow baskets (greater distribution of weight). Being able to use them for my shelter setup is incidental, but none the less very useful.
All of these seem like good reasons to use them.
I use poles vs. sticks because:
-They are generally far lighter (than a stick of equivalent strength you are likely to find lying around in the woods.)
-They are much more comfortable to hold in my hands than wooden sticks
-Their tips offer traction on ice, slickrock, and similar surfaces. Sticks do not.
-With baskets, they are far better suited to snow, mud, quicksand, etc than sticks.
-Once you buy a pair from a good company with a warranty like Leki, broken segments don't typically cost you anything.
-A decent pair really doesn't require that much of a monetary investment
This isn't to say all poles are good. There's an awful lot of over designed, over engineered crap out there, same with any piece of gear. Last, that sheep comment back there was pretty lame. Seriously, children.
Geez, didn't mean to start a big thing about this. Thanks for the replies explaining why you do choose to use a pole. I think being actually UPSET because other people use poles is pretty funny. It's like gay marriage to me (and I am a straight-up conservative). If they want to do it, it has absolutley NO EFFECT on me! Same thing, if you like your poles, use them. I was just trying to decide for myself if they were something I would like to try. Thanks again for all the replies. I was thinking the same thing about self-defense. Hitting someone with one of those poles won't do much, although if you can stab them with that carbide tip, it might work out pretty well :-?
Incahiker
03-11-2009, 20:31
Peer pressure affects 95% of people off the trail as well. There are thousands of completely worthless products that are sold every day. Leki is just Ronco for hikers.
Ahh, sooo true. As Mart Twain once said
"Civilization is a limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
Probably the best quotes I have ever read in my whole life. I noticed that I spent more time pouring over reviews of gear and finally choosing the one I thought was the most appropriate to find that any of the gear I would have chosen would have been fine. Then I look back at all the time that was wasted researching these products. Argggg....
Wooden sticks are best used that way also, poking rather than whacking.
The main reason I like a big wooden stick for self defence is because I think it sends a subliminal message to would be assailants; bears, dogs, people; in a non-threatening way, especially when I am hiking with my daughter. That's my theory anyway. Haven't had to test it. Woods are very safe here, but I like the idea of having something on hand, and a big wooden stick seems very natural. I like it the same as my own height, and about 2 pounds, though it could be 1 pound and still be effective. Easy to make, and it really does come in handy when you are hiking even if you never use it for self defence. Mine is just a maple sapling, with the bark peeled and scraped off. Haven't fanicified it yet. I intended to make one this winter out of mountain ash, and another out of Norther White Cedar, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
I think learning to use a staff for self-defence would great exercise also,
and something you could do while hiking or camping...
Types of Bo Staffs, which could be used as hiking staffs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TS3rqjii0
Downward rowing block, seems easy enough...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz7FHlLn40A
freakflyer9999
03-11-2009, 21:08
I use both. I have a great wooden staff that I've had for at least 15 years. It has a little sandpaper glued on to the end that gives it great traction. Usually only take it on day hikes, but the biggest advantage I've found is that it is strong enough and tall enough to allow me to pole vault streams, etc. that I might otherwise find slightly too wide to jump across. I'm not talking going 15 feet up and over, but simply a bit of an aid on those wider spots. My walking stick is about 5' 6" tall and when I grab ahold with both hands I can transfer a large portion of my weight to the stick.
The walking staff also makes a great lever for moving logs, rocks, etc. I've put some major lateral pressure on it and never feared bending it. Bent poles tend to lose their adjustability.
I also have a set of the Wally world poles and another more expensive pole, though I can't really find any reason for the expense.
The main advantage to the poles is that when properly adjusted they allow me to transfer weight to my arms and wrists through the straps. I can also adjust them for going up or down hill. They weigh less as well and combined with the straps that allow me to hold them without gripping tightly they fatigue my hands less. With my arthritis, this is important.
Since they collapse, they are much easier to toss onto the pack when I don't need/want them or have my hands full with something else.
I actually prefer my poles when hiking, but each tool has its place in my toolkit.
I'll pick up on the comment about poles as self defense . . . that jabbing would be better than whacking. I totally agree. When I pondered whether to enter the trekking pole user world, not once did the benefit of self defense come to mind, but the first night out on my first hike with my poles, as I was laying them fully collapsed next to me in the tent, I thought, you know, if I suddenly found a bear or someone with ill intent upon me in my tent, I'd rather have that very sturdy (collapsed) 18" carbide tipped spear than a Crocodile Dundee-like knife any day! I suddenly felt safer and still do to this day with them, and always have them next to me at night.
Neither my poles or a knife would be much good against an attacker with a gun, but if they don't have a gun (and bears generally don't :D ), I have a fairly high level of confidence that I could inflict enough pain to dissuade them from continuing the attack.
When I hike with my daughter we use a tent and I keep my hatchet handy. It's silly really, but I sleep better. The tent isn't to keep any bears out, just so they can't see that there is a small child. Maybe they can smell age and size, I don't know. Also, I figure my daughter is also less likely to wander off in the night, not that she would. I don't use a tent except when we hike together. When she is bigger she might switch to a bivy and tarp like me, or maybe a hammock, or maybe just kick my out of her tent. Hey, if I'm still hiking with her at that point, or for that matter as long as she's still hiking even without me, my job will be considered done and I'll be happy enough, I guess.
During the day though I think the big stick is just the thing. We never see the bears, as they naturally keep their distance, but we did I figure bears might have a little more respect for the father-daughter relationship if Dad is carrying a big stick. Dad might also be somewhat less likely to **** his pants in the process, which I'm guessing isn't very good body language when encountering a nuisance Black Bear.
When I hike with my daughter we use a tent and I keep my hatchet handy.You carry a five pound hatchet? My high esteem for you is tarnished! :p
Rockhound
03-12-2009, 10:18
I've also never broken a trekking poles in 3 years of using them, but I have broken afew wooden sticks. I got what I paid for them I guess.
I've been hiking with the same sticks for 3 years. They are still perfectly intact. Perhaps you selected the wrong type of wood.
Rockhound
03-12-2009, 10:36
All this talk about hiking poles has peaked my interest. I just might try em' again. Does anyone know what type of hiking poles Shaffer and Espy used?
Blue Jay
03-12-2009, 11:57
I think being actually UPSET because other people use poles is pretty funny.
I am in no way upset that the vast majority of people use poles. This would be like being upset that they wear shoes. Just trying to be a small voice of reason. If a new hiker read the avalanche of religious pole users, those who DO become upset over a dissenting opinion, they would clearly think poles are required. I'm still waiting for a single one of you pole fanatics to actually poll other hikers. The vast majority of those who use poles have hurting knees, those without poles have no knee pain. It's not rocket science what poles do to knees. How exactly does that not make sense?
It's not rocket science what poles do to knees. How exactly does that not make sense?
Hmm. I must be doing something wrong.
Blue Jay, could you please give me more nuggets of wisdom of how to hike properly? Perhaps if I changed my gear to reflect yours, I may be a more successful hiker?
I want to HIKE YOUR HIKE - DAMN IT! :D
Blue Jay
03-12-2009, 12:07
Actually I just might be making some headway. There is a recent thread about knee pain. In the past several people would have immediately prescribed "trekking polls". Not one, as yet, although I'm sure the fanatics will now notice and flood it.
Blue Jay
03-12-2009, 12:09
Hmm. I must be doing something wrong.
Blue Jay, could you please give me more nuggets of wisdom of how to hike properly? Perhaps if I changed my gear to reflect yours, I may be a more successful hiker?
I want to HIKE YOUR HIKE - DAMN IT! :D
Actually it's quite simple and has absolutely nothing to do with gear. Put one FOOT in front of the other
Actually it's quite simple and has absolutely nothing to do with gear. Put one FOOT in front of the other
WOW!!!!
So, that means you no longer have to give your opinion as fact to other people! ;)
You heard it folks, ignore Blue Jay's opinions...just walk! He said it.
Use what gear works for you...and ignore the diatribes of people like him. :sun
Put one FOOT in front of the other
Great advice..if only he'd listen. ;)
Outta here... (hair, too)
Blue Jay
03-12-2009, 12:17
You're almost there, foot not arm.
Alligator
03-12-2009, 12:44
I am in no way upset that the vast majority of people use poles. This would be like being upset that they wear shoes. Just trying to be a small voice of reason. If a new hiker read the avalanche of religious pole users, those who DO become upset over a dissenting opinion, they would clearly think poles are required. I'm still waiting for a single one of you pole fanatics to actually poll other hikers. The vast majority of those who use poles have hurting knees, those without poles have no knee pain. It's not rocket science what poles do to knees. How exactly does that not make sense?That's like saying fillings cause cavities. Your argument doesn't make sense because you are assuming that the poles have created damaged knees or that anyone who had damaged knees and started using them could instead fix their problems. Some knee problems are not correctable and people use poles for that reason.
If a person has a knee problem, the first thing that would be helpful is to see a medical profesional and get to the root of the problem. It might be correctable and it might not.
4eyedbuzzard
03-12-2009, 13:12
...The vast majority of those who use poles have hurting knees, those without poles have no knee pain. It's not rocket science what poles do to knees. How exactly does that not make sense?
Because your argument represents a logical fallacy, specifically cum hoc ergo propter hoc. Correlation does not imply causation.
Gray Blazer
03-12-2009, 13:22
Because your argument represents a logical fallacy, specifically cum hoc ergo propter hoc. Correlation does not imply causation.
(He said cum).:p
Seriously:-?, has anyone ever become impaled with poles or walking sticks? :confused:It just seems like when you are coming down the mountain and you lose your balance a little bit, it would be possible to become impaled. I know, just one more thing to be worried about.:eek:
4eyedbuzzard
03-12-2009, 13:25
(He said cum).:p
Thank you Peter Griffin ;):D I was kind of surprised it wasn't one of those banned WB words.
Most hikers who use poles are of the opinion that there are many reasons to use them, not just because they help save your knees.
Panzer
I'm still waiting for a single one of you pole fanatics to actually poll other hikers. The vast majority of those who use poles have hurting knees, those without poles have no knee pain. It's not rocket science what poles do to knees. How exactly does that not make sense?Unbelievable! In the same breath that you chastise 'pole fanatics' to support there claims, you make an egregious statement with no support. That's how nothing you say makes sense!
I use them BJ and I don't have hurting knees. I just figured out that using poles may well prevent me from ever having hurting knees.
When I returned from my first 75 mile hike with poles, I was amazed at how toned and how much upper body weight I had lost. I've now lost twenty lbs of upper body weight using poles (I walk with them every day) due to the upper body workout (nordic walking exercise). I had been doing the same amount of walking I'm doing these days with poles for years, and still had that upper body excess weight that most over 40 guys struggle to keep off. NO MORE! I've lost it. I don't know about your body, BJ. You may be skinny as a rail. But from the pics I see in the WB galleries, a lot of guys here could benefit from regular walking with trekking poles, not just during backpacking trips. Sure there are other ways to lose that upper body fat, but I don't like gyms and pumping weights, etc. so I've found what works for me.
garlic08
03-12-2009, 16:06
...I was amazed at how toned and how much upper body weight I had lost.
Congratulations, Summit, on finding a great workout doing something fun...the Holy Grail of fitness!
There are some hikers don't use the poles efficiently and don't get the upper body workout you do. Some just take the poles along for the walk, really. I learned pole use on backcountry skis where it's critical to get it right. So I'm really with you on those benefits. It is tremendous.
I met Blue Jay last year. He was SOBO on a section. Pickle and I were walking a long wide level stretch of trail, probably old road, and we were both carrying our poles in one hand, for a quieter stroll. First thing Blue Jay says is, "At last, someone using the poles the right way. They'll hurt your knees!" Pickle and I laughed the rest of the Trail, especially every time we caught ourselves from slipping in the New England mud. We'd say, "Hey, I'm working out my knees here." Thanks for the comic relief, dude!
why would cum be banned? cum = cumulative
i have 15lbs of cum weight in my bag.
Lumberjack2003
03-12-2009, 18:48
Most hikers who use poles are of the opinion that there are many reasons to use them, not just because they help save your knees.
Panzer
I used them and thought they helped me keep a higher pace, balanced myself over water crossings and pushed away any high grass in lyme country.
Like all gear the most importnant thing is that it works for you.
You're almost there, foot not arm.
As I said to you earlier, perhaps when I am experienced as you are, I'll copy your methods. ;)
Remember folks, Blue Jay is a wealth of knowledge. His opinions are more than opinions, they are facts. HIKE HIS HIKE- DAMN IT! :D
On one hand we have Blue Jay who er..posts a lot.
On the other hand, we have people who hike regularly and actually use gear and tell people use what works for them (What more than one way works ? Heresy!)
Obviously, listen to Blue Jay and HIKE HIS HIKE - DAMN IT!
Blue Jay- when opinions are more than facts...and there is is only one, true way to hike. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37459) :banana
Shhhhhhhhhh . . . all's quiet . . . give it a rest . . .
.
.
.
.
.
.
But in 6.3 days a newbie will ask the inevitable question "Are trekking poles any good?" And it will start ALL OVER AGAIN! :eek: :rolleyes:
You can buy them cheaply.
Trekking Poles will carry your gear for a few pierogis and galumpkis. Toss in a little kielbasa and they will cook it for you at dinner, too. :p
You folks are having such fun, I wouldn't want to get in your way, but something that was said a while back makes me wonder about the causes of injuries.
It seems to me that many of the people who try to thru and injure themselves probably do so because their bodies are not used to the stresses of walking many miles every day with a load. It is true that they will build muscle very quickly if they last through GA, and other soft tissues if they last 'till PA, but it takes even longer than that to build up the hard tissues.
Our ancestors who carried heavy loads all the time spent their whole lifetimes building up the physique for the work. The voyageurs and coureur du bois, who used to carry very heavy loads over long portages -- they were expected to carry two pièces of 90lb each, and many showed off by carrying more, up to 360lb with a tump -- often ended up with back ailments, crushed discs and the like. Yet we expect to jump on the trail from our office jobs, with a heavy pack, and rush off down the trail doing twenties every day for months at a time. Having lived with chronic stress injury, in my case Achilles tendonitis, I think it is risky behaviour.
I have never used hiking sticks, and I don't like what they do to the bed rock on some trails. I do use ski poles when skiing, and I may use poles when I feel the need, but I do think that I will not attempt to do big miles until my body has had a good chance to get used to it. Anyway, I would prefer to enjoy the scenery as I travel.
Yet we expect to jump on the trail from our office jobs, with a heavy pack, and rush off down the trail doing twenties every day for months at a time.
...and that is why you do not backpack with heavy loads. ;-) 90 lbs..50lbs.? Heck no...
I'm lazy and go light.
Well, unless I am packing in 10 lbs of pork loin, 5 lbs of spinach, 2dozen ea carrots and potatoes and cooking it at 11k ft for a friend's birthday. On skis.
(http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php/component/option,com_gallery2/Itemid,36/?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=19844)
re: Keep it quiet
Sometimes you just gotta tell a grumpy person to shut his...er trap. Sarcasm works well. Then again, I'm a loudmouth northeast transplant. :)
re: Trekking Poles
Pope John Paul II (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2005-04-02-pope-sportsman_x.htm). He hiked, skied and kayaked. Not sure if he cooked...
Incahiker
03-13-2009, 08:30
This is a great thread.
This is a 5 page thread arguing about trekking poles, ahahah..... the internet is great, it takes grown adults and gets them arguing like my 8 and 6 year old kids. Uh uh, uh huh, uh uh, uh huh..... UH UH.....
Use em if you like em, don't use em if you don't.
I have noticed that they really help my knees going down hill, but I am just talking about going on day hikes and using 2 long slim sticks found in the woods. I can imagine on long hikes that they would provide tremendous support for my knees. Yet I still haven't got any because I found when I need some sticks there are usually 2 properly sized sticks just right beside the trail where ever you are. Then when I don't need them any more I usually just throw them back into the woods. But I bet my mind would change if I was doing a thru hike though.
why would cum be banned? cum = cumulative
i have 15lbs of cum weight in my bag.
The 22 year old in me laughed.
Now I'm off on a day snowshoe in the Kachina Peaks Wilderness with my trekking poles. Woop!
I use poles because I like my knees and they help with balance. I can also use them to move up steep hills much more quickley If you don't like to use them don't use them but don't insult those of us who do.
Use em if you like em, don't use em if you don't.
That's what we all said. Except for one guy who seems to have something against people having their own opinion. Poor guy likes to even lecture while hiking it seems. Perhaps we can stage an intervention for him? :)
(We'll bake a nice cake, sing some folks songs and tell him it is OK to have difference of opinion. Then have a nice group hug. I've been in the Boulder area too long... need more coffee)
sherrill
03-13-2009, 13:30
I use mine to beat myself in the head...:datz:datz
Blue Jay
03-13-2009, 17:23
I met Blue Jay last year. He was SOBO on a section. Pickle and I were walking a long wide level stretch of trail, probably old road, and we were both carrying our poles in one hand, for a quieter stroll. First thing Blue Jay says is, "At last, someone using the poles the right way. They'll hurt your knees!" Pickle and I laughed the rest of the Trail, especially every time we caught ourselves from slipping in the New England mud. We'd say, "Hey, I'm working out my knees here." Thanks for the comic relief, dude!
This is pure and utter BS.
Blue Jay
03-13-2009, 17:26
Poor guy likes to even lecture while hiking it seems. Perhaps we can stage an intervention for him? :)
(We'll bake a nice cake, sing some folks songs and tell him it is OK to have difference of opinion. Then have a nice group hug. [I]I've been in the Boulder area too long... need more coffee)
More pure and utter BS, but I've got to give pole fanatics credit for sticking together.
More pure and utter BS, but I've got to give pole fanatics credit for sticking together.
Ah..does widdle Blue Jay need a hugsy-wugsy? :)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5cKl-1bjUg)
Remember folks..Blue Jay knows best! He even lectures people while hiking he knows so much! :sun Most of just like to hike, smile and say hello. Blue Jay lectures!!! What an outdoor stud!
Blue Jay - for when you need opinions (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=799587#post799587)that are facts..
(OK..I'm done. Really. No more from me :banana)
Blue Jay
03-13-2009, 17:38
But in 6.3 days a newbie will ask the inevitable question "Are trekking poles any good?" And it will start ALL OVER AGAIN! :eek: :rolleyes:
I think you are overestimating the number of days. It is very very rare there is not an active thread proselytizing poles.
Blue Jay
03-13-2009, 17:41
Ah..does widdle Blue Jay need a hugsy-wugsy? :)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5cKl-1bjUg)
Nah, you have to have a tough skin to oppose the pole religion.
Nah, you have to have a tough skin to oppose the pole religion.A legend in his own mind, no doubt! :D
You know BJ, you'd get more respect if you just stuck with something like "I tried poles. They didn't do anything for me. I see no benefit. I don't use them." I would respond to that with "fine, hike on and enjoy yourself."
Instead, I guess due to the blatantly obvious minority opinion you espouse, you feel compelled to resort to telling the 4/5 or more of the hiking population that disagree with you that they are delusional, stupid, fanatics, victims of snake oil salesmen and marketing, and are a cult religion (did I miss any of your tyrannical diatribes?) for choosing to use a product you don't like. When we state we know for certain that we are deriving benefits from using poles, you accuse us of being wrong about what we experience. Now if that isn't arrogance gone postal, I don't know what is! :eek:
Richard Snider
03-13-2009, 19:35
I made mine out of a 4' x 1" piece of aluminum tube, A bicycle grip, and a 7/8" rubber chair leg end. I've been using it for about 2 year and love it. It's very light weight & strong. The rubber end is sticky on rock, doesn't slip on dirt, and won't mar rocks or chew up trails.
daddytwosticks
03-13-2009, 19:39
I love my poles...thus the trail name "daddytwosticks"! :)
Trail Trooper
03-13-2009, 19:43
It Puts You In Four Wheel Drive
garlic08
03-13-2009, 20:06
This is pure and utter BS.
If so--if that wasn't you--I humbly and publicly apologize for my libelous statements. But Pickle and I truly did meet a seriously and vocally anti-pole person section hiking SOBO in '08 with a blue bird's name--maybe Bluebird, or maybe a different Blue Jay. I know there's at least one other Garlic out there, too--there are many cloves in a head of garlic--and that has led to some confusion before.
Blue Jay,they got on me for W.C. cause he got hurt before his start.
Dont use poles in fl,due to flat ground and muck in swamps.Been all over the states and never used them...but thats just me.Do they look funny in fl yes but they do help hikers all over.:)
Blue Jay
03-14-2009, 08:51
Instead, I guess due to the blatantly obvious minority opinion you espouse, you feel compelled to resort to telling the 4/5 or more of the hiking population that disagree with you that they are delusional, stupid, fanatics, victims of snake oil salesmen and marketing, and are a cult religion (did I miss any of your tyrannical diatribes?) for choosing to use a product you don't like.
I never said delusional or stupid and it has nothing to do with liking or not liking the product. Poles are required for people with damaged legs who could not hike without light weight crutches. As I've said over and over, people with healthy legs WILL become dependant upon them, much like pain killers. Overuse and permanet damage often results. No other piece of gear illicits such overwhelming devotion. A hammock user might never go back to a tent, but they could. Once pole addiction occurs, after a variable number of miles, you cannot go back.
Blue Jay
03-14-2009, 08:54
If so--if that wasn't you--I humbly and publicly apologize for my libelous statements. But Pickle and I truly did meet a seriously and vocally anti-pole person section hiking SOBO in '08 with a blue bird's name--maybe Bluebird, or maybe a different Blue Jay. I know there's at least one other Garlic out there, too--there are many cloves in a head of garlic--and that has led to some confusion before.
No problem, I enjoyed your journal last year very much. One of the best writers of that year.
As I've said over and over, people with healthy legs WILL become dependant upon them, much like pain killers. Overuse and permanet damage often results. Please provide the documentation of this study of yours as well as a list of names of people interviewed. I find this very interesting, IF TRUE, and would like to validate it.
On the other hand it may be just you bumping your gums, attempting to sound 'all knowing,' as I suspect. In rereading your statement again, it is absolutely comical that you would make such a bold, unfounded, silly statement. Do people who know you take you seriously? :eek:
Once pole addiction occurs, after a variable number of miles, you cannot go back.You are better than any late night comedian I've heard lately! What a whacked out, funny, absurd statement. Gotta go . . . I must grab my poles and go for a walk! I need them. The urge is overwhelming! Buwahhhh ha ha ha! :D
4eyedbuzzard
03-14-2009, 09:27
You are better than any late night comedian I've heard lately! What a whacked out, funny, absurd statement. Gotta go . . . I must grab my poles and go for a walk! I need them. The urge is overwhelming! Buwahhhh ha ha ha! :D
You should order a wheelchair for when you get back.
i have 15lbs of cum weight in my bag.Well maybe if you were a little nicer, you could get a nice boy to help you out with that problem. :banana
Powder River
03-14-2009, 14:39
Get them at REI. If you don't like them, you can always return them under REI's return policy. If you return them, they'll just sell them again at the next Garage Sale at their store. I got a new set of poles last year that retailed for $140 at the Garage Sale for $26. They were returned because they got dirty. :rolleyes::D
I realize REI has a very, very generous return policy, but that doesn't mean you're not taking advantage of them. The return policy is there to create customer loyalty, especially when there is actually something wrong with the gear you've bought. I usually buy at REI when I can because of this. But just keep in mind that if you return an item that cost $140, and they sell it for $26 at their next garage sale, they have just lost $114 on that item. Did you return it because it broke, or malfunctioned? Or were you just "renting" it? In the ski industry this is why they have demo models. In the real world, some might call this unscrupulous. Just sayin...
flemdawg1
03-14-2009, 15:50
Just stop feeding the trolls.
As I said to you earlier, perhaps when I am experienced as you are, I'll copy your methods. ;)
Or you could could copy Ray Jardine's?
No Poles. No hip belt. I think. I could be wrong. I read that standing up in REI while my wife was looking for khaki pants. He is the hiking Oracle, right?
I think he might have something to teach us all about rowing a boat, also. He rowed accross the Atlantic, or so I heard.
Me? I go for style points. Screw the mechanics. A single staff is the only way to go. And paddling, not rowing.
.......just keep in mind that if you return an item that cost $140, and they sell it for $26 at their next garage sale, they have just lost $114 on that item. Did you return it because it broke, or malfunctioned?.......You misunderstood my post. The poles I bought originally retailed for $140. They were purchased by someone else and returned because they were dirty, according to the tag that was on them at the sale. I picked them up at the Garage Sale for $26. Unscrupulous? Yup, but not on my behalf. Just sayin'. :D
optimator
03-14-2009, 16:43
its like going from 2 wheel drive to 4 wheel drive
Thats the same way I've described it. I've wedged mine many times going into collapse trenches when caving. I've not yet broke or even bent one. Great for moving snakes too. Mine are the Black Diamond Trail. Oh yeah, flicklocks rule :banana
Powder River
03-14-2009, 16:59
You misunderstood my post. The poles I bought originally retailed for $140. They were purchased by someone else and returned because they were dirty, according to the tag that was on them at the sale. I picked them up at the Garage Sale for $26. Unscrupulous? Yup, but not on my behalf. Just sayin'. :D
I was actually referring to the second sentence in your post
"If you don't like them, you can always return them under REI's return policy. If you return them, they'll just sell them again at the next Garage Sale at their store."
I am not saying the person getting the deal at the garage sale is doing anything wrong, but rather the person who is "trying out" gear with the rather liberal use of the return policy when something is not quite to their liking. Your post seemed to recommend this, so hence my response. My apologies if that is not the way you meant it. :o
freakflyer9999
03-14-2009, 17:23
I was actually referring to the second sentence in your post
"If you don't like them, you can always return them under REI's return policy. If you return them, they'll just sell them again at the next Garage Sale at their store."
I am not saying the person getting the deal at the garage sale is doing anything wrong, but rather the person who is "trying out" gear with the rather liberal use of the return policy when something is not quite to their liking. Your post seemed to recommend this, so hence my response. My apologies if that is not the way you meant it. :o
I have used the return policy at REI on several occasions and I don't feel that I'm taking advantage of anyone or being unscrupolous.
I purchased a pair of hiking boots there, paying full retail price. After some neighborhood hikes and 2 longer hikes (15 and 25 miles) I decided that they weren't the correct boot for me. The sales clerk had specifically told me to try them on a couple of hikes and if they didn't work out to bring them back. He also told me that if I wore them for several years and simply wore them out to return them. He said that he has several regular customers that replace their boots every few years through their return policy. This is part of their marketing. They know that people are willing to pay premium price for items if the risk is completely on the seller.
I also purchased a Steri-pen and after taking it on a 3 day hike decided that it was just too much weight for its function and switched back to tablets. REI took it back and I'm sure priced it somewhere around their cost in the next garage sale. Actually that garage sale is next weekend, so would it be unscrupolous of me to go back and buy it at a discounted price?
Today I purchased a new backpack, an Osprey Exos 58. I actually had one in my hands at the local Backwoods store a couple of weeks ago, but on my way to the checkout made the decision to purchase the pack at REI. A large portion of my decision was based on the REI guarantee. Of course the rebate check that was in the mail and the 20% that members get in March helped as well, but I could have applied those to any number of other items at REI.
I have to drive past numerous other outdoor stores to get to REI. It is well over an hour drive for me, but I do it because of their guarantee. They rarely have prices any better than I could find elsewhere and certainly don't beat internet pricing, so why else would I shop at REI for the same item that I could get elsewhere. Absolutely, positively, their guarantee and I'm willing to pay more and drive further because of it.
I guess if that makes me unscrupolous, then I am unscrupolous.
Or you could could copy Ray Jardine's?
.
With a name like Magnanti I am sure as hell not cooking corn pasta...
Speakeasy
04-13-2009, 07:14
Adjusting straps is not a secret and not even remotely hard. Detractors can merely see beyond the placebo effect, the marketing and religious peer pressure. Just read back thru this virtual religion of pole worshipers. People walked, carrying weight, for the entire evolution of man until the pole religion arose 10 years ago. Now people actually believe they cannot walk without poles, you even see them in Malls now. Soon they will be providing babies with them at birth.
We even walked, carried weight and communicated through out evolution without cell phones and remote controls. Perhaps you would like to sacrifice those in the name of minimalism. It amazes me that people can not just respect the opinions of others without mocking or critisizing them.
Why don't you HYOH, let everyone else HTOY and keep your unnecessary and nonproductive remarks to yourself... of course, that is just MY humble opinion.
Nrvana
Speakeasy
04-13-2009, 07:26
I am in no way upset that the vast majority of people use poles. This would be like being upset that they wear shoes. Just trying to be a small voice of reason. If a new hiker read the avalanche of religious pole users, those who DO become upset over a dissenting opinion, they would clearly think poles are required. I'm still waiting for a single one of you pole fanatics to actually poll other hikers. The vast majority of those who use poles have hurting knees, those without poles have no knee pain. It's not rocket science what poles do to knees. How exactly does that not make sense?
Just a thought BJ. Instead of complaining about the "avalanche of religious pole users" you could simply offer your opionion as to why YOU don't use poles. This is not a gear poll, just someone asking about the experience of others. What exactly is your PROBLEM????????????? You are most assuredly NOT the voice of reason. Of course, there always has to be a thread wrecker...
Nrvana
i don't like using poles when i am travel flat stretches.
but when i hit steep uphills or steep downhills - well let's just say that they have saved my old ass many a time.
an i am still using the same lekis i got in 1996. still work very well and remain unbent after 13 years of constant use.
come to think of it, a lot of my old gear is still going strong after 13 years of constant use:
whisperlight
dana pack
bibler tent
most of my capilene and fleece
may use some on my 2010 thru.
TV
twsmith001
02-16-2011, 06:25
thought this was suppose to be about pole vs stick....or two sticks
so just a few points...the only diffrence that yall came up with in a pole vs a stick is maybee weight and collabsablity....you could always carve your self a point at the end of the stick though right???? hey good for the self defense crowd
which brings me to my second point dont hit the bear with a stick or a pole youll just make him mad....play dead....as far as for a person goes smack him with either....or her (dont want to be called a sexist for leaving you ladies out;))
and third all of you guys jumpin on blue jay just kinda confirms his point about religious fanatasism atleast to my eyes
twsmith001
02-16-2011, 06:27
doah old thread my bad......imma noob:(
Blue Jay
02-16-2011, 07:27
and third all of you guys jumpin on blue jay just kinda confirms his point about religious fanatasism atleast to my eyes
It took 2 years but finally someone noticed, thank you.:banana
earlyriser26
02-16-2011, 08:21
I took a hiking "stick" for years (old broom handel). I switcherd to poles and they gave me more stability (both sides). And yes, Maine is the the hiking pole salesmans best pal. As you get older or fatter, you need them more. I can't imagine hiking the "wilderness" without them. It was a progression with me. First 10 years no stick, next 10 years + stick, last 15 years poles, soon + wheelchair.
arthur.uscg
02-18-2011, 17:25
Some of the poles also have a mount for cameras, allowing for the awesome night pictures and some unique camera angles.