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View Full Version : Rooky question about a section hike.



rdmcanul
03-12-2009, 12:11
MY teen daughter and I plan to do a 5-7 day section hike in early April. We are both fit and outdoorsy, but not hikers. Could you recommend a scenic and moderate section in VA? We own plenty of camping gear, although no much that is ultra-lightweight. Thanks.
Rick

4eyedbuzzard
03-12-2009, 12:16
Virtually anywhere in Shenandoah National Park would likely be high on anyone's list. Easy access, easy to moderate trail.

Pedaling Fool
03-12-2009, 12:24
I second SNP.

Red Hat
03-12-2009, 12:30
Grayson Highlands is also a nice section for newbies. Start at Damascus and hike toward Atkins, or start at Partnership Shelter and hike south to Damascus (even easier)

Spirit Walker
03-12-2009, 12:39
One consideration - bring warm gear. The mountains in Virginia are tall and it can get very cold there at night. Snow is a possibility in early April. So be prepared by carrying a warm hat, gloves, jacket and long underwear. We met some section hikers in NC who were not expecting the cold they ran into in late-April. They only had shorts and 40 degree bags. They ended up scrounging warm gear from the thruhikers, and we didn't have a lot to spare! They were from Atlanta though, and it had been spring for a month down in the valleys. They didn't expect it to still be winter in the mountains.

rdmcanul
03-12-2009, 12:41
Thanks to all. This is what we need! Keep it coming!

Pedaling Fool
03-12-2009, 12:45
One consideration - bring warm gear. The mountains in Virginia are tall and it can get very cold there at night. Snow is a possibility in early April. So be prepared by carrying a warm hat, gloves, jacket and long underwear. We met some section hikers in NC who were not expecting the cold they ran into in late-April. They only had shorts and 40 degree bags. They ended up scrounging warm gear from the thruhikers, and we didn't have a lot to spare! They were from Atlanta though, and it had been spring for a month down in the valleys. They didn't expect it to still be winter in the mountains.
This is true, even if you decide to leave later in the year. I've seen snow through SNP twice in May -- this was back in the late 90s and then again in 2008.

Berserker
03-12-2009, 13:02
Not to rain on the parade, but have you ever backpacked before? I only ask cause you mention you are not a "hiker". If so then disregard this. If not, I would recommend getting out on a weekend hike first to get a little experience. That way you can get used to your gear, see how far you can go, deal with getting water, deal with doing #2 in the woods, etc. I only say this cause going out for your first time on a 5 - 7 day section could end up being the time of your life, or it could really suck. Plus, doing sections reqiures more logistics than just going somewhere for the weekend and doing a loop hike.

With that said, if it is your first time I would recommend going up to Mt. Rogers NRA for a weekend. It's less than 3 hours from Charlotte, The AT goes through there (so you can check out the shelters and everything), and it's a really cool place.

4eyedbuzzard
03-12-2009, 13:05
Not to rain on the parade, but have you ever backpacked before? I only ask cause you mention you are not a "hiker". If so then disregard this. If not, I would recommend getting out on a weekend hike first to get a little experience. That way you can get used to your gear, see how far you can go, deal with getting water, deal with doing #2 in the woods, etc. I only say this cause going out for your first time on a 5 - 7 day section could end up being the time of your life, or it could really suck. Plus, doing sections reqiures more logistics than just going somewhere for the weekend and doing a loop hike.

With that said, if it is your first time I would recommend going up to Mt. Rogers NRA for a weekend. It's less than 3 hours from Charlotte, The AT goes through there (so you can check out the shelters and everything), and it's a really cool place.

Part of the reason I suggested SNP. It stays close to and crosses Skyline Drive enough where you could generally bail at any time and easily hitch back to the car if things went wrong.

rdmcanul
03-12-2009, 13:22
This is very useful. I have done many day and overnight hikes. I backpacked the Dingle Way in Ireland years ago. But I have never backpacked for 7 days straight. I value the feedback, especially since we are down the wire. This trip is actually my daughter's 10th grade school project so it is important for her. A bonding experience too, I hope!

McKeever
03-12-2009, 13:46
This is very useful. I have done many day and overnight hikes. I backpacked the Dingle Way in Ireland years ago. But I have never backpacked for 7 days straight. I value the feedback, especially since we are down the wire. This trip is actually my daughter's 10th grade school project so it is important for her. A bonding experience too, I hope!

If you want to go on a back packing trip on the AT you must be prepared and skilled. This is not to say that you can't teach your self but since you are taking the responsibility for the safety of your self and daughter, you really need to take a few test hikes and obtain a data book and maps plus make sure you are carrying the 10 essentials. You can make this happen but you will need to take your full packs out for all day test hiking in your area, even if it's just a local park and use every item you have, including setup up your tent and cooking a meal. Make certain you make proper preparation and know all the data about the area you are hiking in. Carry everthing you will need so that you will not have to hit some one up to use their gear or maps. The SNP is maybe a safer choice for a beginner because you will cross the Skyline Drive so many times if you need to bale out but any place on the AT has certain dangers. There are several camp stores and restaurants there too for treats. Be prepared to carry your own shelter in case the shelters are full. An alternative is to look in the hostels forum and see if anyone will assist you in any of the sections you are interested in.

rdmcanul
03-12-2009, 13:53
I am a whitewater paddler with over 20 years of experience. So, I have done plenty of camping and related activities, including multi-day trips on rivers out West. But my backpacking experience is very limited.

I plan on setting up my tent every night (I snore loudly!). I like the idea of test hikes. We will to that. I have the AT Thru Hikers Companion, but will buy other titles if recommended. Thanks.

McKeever
03-12-2009, 14:18
YOu can purchase the AT data book and section maps from the ATC web store and join the ATC too for book discounts. You can get last years book for $2.00 and it lists all the distances between sections and features such as springs, shelters, and roads. It sounds like you will be able to port your skills from rafting and camping right over to back packing so it's will just be a matter of getting your packs and footware comfortable so you can enjoy the hike. Test hikes will also let you check your footware to make sure they doesn't cause any problems. If you need to replace footware fast then hi-tech's are inexpensive and light weight fabric boots. If you continue back packing you can get your pack weight down and hike in fabric trail shoes.

Pony
03-12-2009, 14:32
Another vote for SNP. I took my girlfriend there last fall. She is neither a hiker nor is she outdoorsy, and she had a great time. There are tons of good views and the trail crosses Skyline drive something like 28 times, so if you need to, you can get off the trail pretty easy. Also there are two lodges if the weather turns really crappy. There's also a lot of wildlife. We saw countless deer and three bears.

rdmcanul
03-12-2009, 14:41
Is there a specific title I should look for? I need to learn what the data book is.

I have a pair of Merrell Goretex boots that feel wonderful (they are not the heaviest-duty ones). I don't know what hi-techs are, so I will check on it.

Thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Blissful
03-12-2009, 14:41
Yes, do Shenandoah. Great time of year to be there. I've been up there a couple times this past week, awesome winter views. But there are ticks out, beleive it or not. Nasty buggers.

But not many services open at SNP in early April. Chekc the .gov web site for opening dates.

All you need to do is download the ALDHA (http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm) companion (free) for that section and buy some trail maps (three of them).

Shenandoah is not difficult. You can do it as a beginner. You do not need to be "skilled" just have the necessities like a warm bag, no cotton stuff, that kind of thing. I did it the first time with heavy-ish gear. No sweat, but I mean I was hurting some. But that is to be expected when you do physical activity. Enjoy.

mister krabs
03-12-2009, 14:43
Like LW says, It's just walkin. Carry less than 40 lbs and have fun!

McKeever
03-12-2009, 19:35
Yes, do Shenandoah. Great time of year to be there. I've been up there a couple times this past week, awesome winter views. But there are ticks out, believe it or not. Nasty buggers.

But not many services open at SNP in early April. Chekc the .gov web site for opening dates.

All you need to do is download the ALDHA (http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm) companion (free) for that section and buy some trail maps (three of them).

Shenandoah is not difficult. You can do it as a beginner. You do not need to be "skilled" just have the necessities like a warm bag, no cotton stuff, that kind of thing. I did it the first time with heavy-ish gear. No sweat, but I mean I was hurting some. But that is to be expected when you do physical activity. Enjoy.

Telling a new hiker that you don't need to be skilled to back pack, that al you need is the Companion (commercial services guide) to overnight sections in the USA's highest population of Black Bears per area is like telling some one that they don't need a paddle to white water raft! BTW- You will most likely see bears but it would be rare to have an incident other than a false charge. Goto the ATC at www.appalachiantrail.com (http://www.appalachiantrail.com)
for the data book.

McKeever
03-12-2009, 19:58
Telling a new hiker that you don't need to be skilled to back pack, that al you need is the Companion (commercial services guide) to overnight sections in the USA's highest population of Black Bears per area is like telling some one that they don't need a paddle to white water raft! BTW- You will most likely see bears but it would be rare to have an incident other than a false charge. Goto the ATC at www.appalachiantrail.com (http://www.appalachiantrail.com)
for the data book.

Wrong link, here is the correct link http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805859/k.BFA3/Home.htm

Camping Dave
03-13-2009, 11:44
Telling a new hiker that you don't need to be skilled to back pack, that al you need is the Companion (commercial services guide) to overnight sections in the USA's highest population of Black Bears per area is like telling some one that they don't need a paddle to white water raft! BTW- You will most likely see bears but it would be rare to have an incident other than a false charge. Goto the ATC at www.appalachiantrail.com (http://www.appalachiantrail.com)
for the data book.

There's hyperbole for ya!

7 days on the AT is not exactly 7 days in the wilderness. You can get to stores and towns pretty much every day, depending on your section. Shelters should have room this time of year. And wouldn't it be nice if every trip to SNP pretty much guarantees that you see black bears! Oh My!

CaseyB
03-13-2009, 11:53
But I have never backpacked for 7 days straight.

Neither have a lot of thruhikers. Or me. Just sayn'.

rdmcanul
03-13-2009, 11:53
This is all, including the lively dissent, very informative and useful. Really. I like having different perspectives.

Berserker
03-13-2009, 13:18
Telling a new hiker that you don't need to be skilled to back pack, that al you need is the Companion (commercial services guide) to overnight sections in the USA's highest population of Black Bears per area is like telling some one that they don't need a paddle to white water raft!
I agree. To the OP, it sounds like you have some camping experience so make sure to read up on and practice some of the basic skills that you haven't yet learned before you do a 7 day trip. I can't disagree with those that say that it's just walking, heck my first time out was just that. I had fun, but it was a lot harder than I thought it would be, and man did my shoulders ache from my incorrectly sized pack stuffed with all kinds of un-needed items. Nonetheless, we don't need to over complicate this thing, but I think you'll have a lot more fun if you are better prepared.



At any rate, I like the idea of the "test hikes" that McKeever suggests. That's basically what I was suggesting in my first post. A few things I would encourage you to try and/or learn in advance are as follows:

pack up your pack and at least take some walks with it on. This will give you a general idea of what you are getting into, and can help you estimate (taking into account that you will be going up and down mountains out on the trail) how far you can go per day. One thing I did when I lived in Charlotte is I would load up my pack, head to Crowders Mountain, and hike to the top. That would give me a general idea of my conditioning.
on your walks or test hikes work out your footwear. What I mean here is make sure you settle on shoes or boots that will be comfortable for that 7 day hike.
do some training hikes in the rain. You will likely have to deal with rain (although the SE has been pretty dry the last couple of years), and it can really suck if you aren't mentally prepared for it. Plus, make sure to get some appropriate rain gear.
learn to hang your food in a tree, and secure it when it's not hung. Yeah I'm gonna stir up the hornets nest on this one (lot's of folks just sleep with food in their tent), but I believe in hanging food. As for securing it, I was on the AT in GA last year and a couple of guys had some food stolen by a bear cause they left all their stuff at a shelter (including their food bags) to eat breakfast at a scenic overlook. That just ain't right. That's how a normal bear turns into problem bear.
and please make sure to buy a plastic trowel or learn to use a stick or whatever to bury your doo doo. I'm even guilty of not doing this one when I first started off many years ago. I mean no one told me I needed to. TP and doo doo not being buried and sitting in plain sight really ticks me off.

LTHotSauce
03-13-2009, 13:26
I would call places in advance before relying on them for any kind of resupply (food, maps, etc.) I am under the impression that the SNP's commercial opperations are pretty much closed this time of year... Not enough tourists.

Blissful
03-13-2009, 13:28
Telling a new hiker that you don't need to be skilled to back pack, that al you need is the Companion (commercial services guide) to overnight sections in the USA's highest population of Black Bears per area is like telling some one that they don't need a paddle to white water raft! BTW- You will most likely see bears but it would be rare to have an incident other than a false charge. Goto the ATC at www.appalachiantrail.com (http://www.appalachiantrail.com)
for the data book.

I guess one needs to clarify then what is "skilled" and how one becomes skilled if they don't hike. Because no one is skilled when they started out! You obtain most skills as you hike and backpack and see what works and doesn't work in differing situations. You can certainly read about it. But nothing is better than doing it. Rather one can gain some knowledge which is what this hiker is doing by being on WB.

And the data book is no different than the ALDHA guide. If one must have more info than that then they should be directed to purchase the ATC guidebook for Shenandoah along with the maps.

BTW - no problem with bears the month they are going...

rdmcanul
03-13-2009, 13:28
Very helpful info. from all.
We have goretex rain jackets. Do we need goretex pants?
I guess a rope is all we need to hang food (which we did in Yellowstone).
Do most folks do freeze-dried food or what would you recommend for this trip?
Thank you very much.

McKeever
03-13-2009, 13:33
There's hyperbole for ya!

7 days on the AT is not exactly 7 days in the wilderness. You can get to stores and towns pretty much every day, depending on your section. Shelters should have room this time of year. And wouldn't it be nice if every trip to SNP pretty much guarantees that you see black bears! Oh My!

Not true. Merely setting reasonable expectations for a successful and enjoyable trip for a new hiker. Preparation and skill directly correlate and prevent failure of your trip goals. It would be unwise to start out on an AT hike with the mind set that a failure in preparation can be offset by bumming off of others what you did not bring, or hiking out to the road in failure. It is silly to think that all shelters are going to be empty, therefore a tent or tarp is not needed, that no injury is going to occur so don't bring any first aid items, all water is pure so no need to treat, and the forecast is for sunny days so don't bring any rain gear or extra food. Although all these factor could be true and the items not needed but most do not want to take the risk of now meeting their hiking goals. Truth be told, I can thru-hike the SNP with just a head lamp, small amount of food, water bottle, iodine preps, proper clothing, and a trash bag to nap in but I would not recommend it to others.

PPPPPP -Piss Poor Planning Prevents Proper Performance

Frau
03-13-2009, 13:34
Amen on the ticks being out already AND mosquitoes. If it is chilly you may not see bugs, but if it is warm like it has been the past week, you may be plagued.

Fr.

rdmcanul
03-13-2009, 13:44
Thanks again. If doing 5-7 days in SNP, will we need a water filter? (if so, what do you recommmend?). Also, should we bring anything more than a basic first-aid kit?

Blissful
03-13-2009, 14:38
Aqua mira does fine for water and saves weight. Basic first aid kit, put in ziploc bag.
I'd take rain pants that time of year. but they are optional. Only good for camp, not to hike in. Check the weather before you go and decide.
There are multiple bear poles at each of the shelter areas that you can use. If you plan to camp elsewhere, you need a bear hanging gear like rope.

Frosty
03-13-2009, 14:52
I guess a rope is all we need to hang food (which we did in Yellowstone).If you camped in Yellowstone, you have all the experience you need for a week in the SHennandoahs.

McKeever
03-13-2009, 15:05
I guess one needs to clarify then what is "skilled" and how one becomes skilled if they don't hike. Because no one is skilled when they started out! You obtain most skills as you hike and backpack and see what works and doesn't work in differing situations. You can certainly read about it. But nothing is better than doing it. Rather one can gain some knowledge which is what this hiker is doing by being on WB.

And the data book is no different than the ALDHA guide. If one must have more info than that then they should be directed to purchase the ATC guidebook for Shenandoah along with the maps.

BTW - no problem with bears the month they are going...

I have to completely disagree with all this. The Data book is a highly concise table of data for distances between key items published by the ATC (rip out pages of the sections you are hiking and leave the rest at home). The data book also lists elevations between points so you get a picture of the elevation changes over a section and is almost as useful as a topo map.

The companion is a commercial services guild and "how to" resupply and conduct your self in town and a wealth of tidbits. Since all this is getting aired out, the ATC guide books are also in play and are more scientific and description of the trail and correlate to the ATC maps, but not needed to hike. Maps should be carried. I own all the above. Any interested hiker would like the history and geology and detailed descriptions of trail sections in the Guide. The best setup is the pages from the data book, pages from the companion, and maps. All of this is light weight. I have observed bears moving about as early as the first week in March so, there will be hungry bears foraging. Perhaps too early for cub births and crazy momma bears.

For Gortex, it just does not breath as much as needed to justify the high cost and weight. Frogg Toggs are inexpensive and lightweight. It would be very foolish not to bring rain pants. www.Froggtoggs.com (http://www.Froggtoggs.com). Yes, you should treat your water. Polarpure is pure iodine crystals and very easy to use to get a perfect dose every time. Chlorine based chemicals are not as good. Hikers are water powered animals so hydro is a big deal. Carry one 16oz bpa free wide mouth nalgene for mixing for both of you and regular 1l water bottles. 2 -1L bottles recommened for each person.

rdmcanul
03-13-2009, 15:18
Can you say more about the water bottles and purifiers? As a novice, i need explicit info. I am not sure I understand the concept of mixing and separate bottles.
Thanks.

McKeever
03-13-2009, 16:00
Can you say more about the water bottles and purifiers? As a novice, i need explicit info. I am not sure I understand the concept of mixing and separate bottles.
Thanks.

Three main camps here. Water filters, UV light treatment, and chemical treatment. Filters remove bacteria, but even a 2 micron filter may not get the viruses and they are heavier and a chore to pump or wait for gravity to filter. Chlorine based chemical treatments kill bacteria, but maybe not viruses. Iodine such as PolarPure coats both and they pass right through your body. Steripen uses UV light and scrambles the DNA of both, which is the future means of treatment for hikers, however, Steripen's have high device failure rates and frustrated hikers. Nalgene bottles are strong and will not rupture if dropped and have wide mouths for mixing, but they are heavier than a pop bottle so the solution is to take a 16oz Nalgen (the new bpa carcinogen free) and use soda bottles or Evian 1L bottles. Each person should have 2L capacity for longer stretches. In some cases only one bottle will be filled per person, but you need a spare on hand.

mister krabs
03-13-2009, 16:08
Just read and follow the directions on the iodine package, it's not that big of a deal. You can use any plastic bottle, no need for nalgene. Do the overnight shakedown. Take it slow, have a bailout plan, when it's not fun anymore, go home. You've got plenty of experience. Canoe tripping is not all that different other than gear and muscles used. Goretex pants are nice, but many just use nylon or even a garbage bag skirt.