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Post
03-13-2009, 13:39
Hello,

I have a good friend who just signed up for what looks like a "guided slack-pack" thru-hike of the AT next year (2010). She will be hiking with a group, they are all expected to hike together, stay together and start and end the trail together as s group. While there appears to be some bona fide backpacking, it looks like the organizers will be slack-packing them most of the time.

This style of long-distance hiking does not particularly appeal to me (I prefer to hike solo and make all my own decisions as I go), but that's not really my concern. What worries me is the training regimen for the thru-hike.

My friend is a mid-50's female, in good shape and has done some weekend backpacking in her life but certainly nothing even approaching the scale of even a typical week on the Trail.

The first preparation hike is coming up in a few weeks. The participants are expected to get to the trailhead at 5 am :eek: Then on their very first day, hike 23.5 miles. The next day they do 18 miles, then the final day is a 20-miler. Um, 60 miles in 3 days? With a 5 am start that means probably not enough sleep right out of the gate? That sure seems like a grueling schedule for a very first-ever backpacking trip. Expecially for out-of-shape people with brand new boots and equipment. I've done a few 23 mile days, but only after being on the Trail for weeks and having my Trail Legs. I'm just worried that my friend is going to get discouraged at the very least, or injured at the worst. The hike is also in Pennsylvania in early April, when there still could be snowstorms, or freezing rain.

Is this as bad an idea as it sounds to me? I do understand that the hike is being organized by a very experienced person who has thru-hiked the AT multiple times, so I concede that he has more experience than I do. But still, I just don't see how this 60-mile first hike in only 3 days is a good idea, especially for older folks.

Thoughts, anyone?

Gray Blazer
03-13-2009, 13:41
Yeah, gotta agree. Sounds kinda rough. Guess it would weed out a few people.

SGT Rock
03-13-2009, 13:43
Sounds like it is designed to give people a gut check. Is this Warren Doyle's group?

Post
03-13-2009, 13:45
Sounds like it is designed to give people a gut check. Is this Warren Doyle's group?Yes.

What is a "gut check"? Good thing or bad?

Cannibal
03-13-2009, 13:46
Is it safe to assume the 'training' is slack packing too? If so, 20 mile days will be long and exhausting, but certainly doable over the PA terrain even by an inexperienced hiker...IMO.
But, yeah I wouldn't want to deal with a forced march with a group, which is kind of what this sounds like.

Post
03-13-2009, 13:57
Is it safe to assume the 'training' is slack packing too? If so, 20 mile days will be long and exhausting, but certainly doable over the PA terrain even by an inexperienced hiker...IMO.
But, yeah I wouldn't want to deal with a forced march with a group, which is kind of what this sounds like.
It doesn't sound to me like it's slack-packing. The website clearly says "backpack", NOT slack-pack.

Even if it IS slackpacking, that's still a lot to ask from tender newbies, IMO. Heck, I've got a lot of backpacking experience, and I'm younger than my friend, and I personally would not start out the hiking season with a 23.5 mile hike the very first day, EVEN if it was slack-packing. That just seems to be asking for trouble, whether it's huge blisters, a fall from exhaustion or just a really, really crappy, discouraging day.

drastic_quench
03-13-2009, 14:00
Talk her out of it. Hiking partners are hard enough to stay with. This sounds like a cluster f_ck waiting to happen. Convince her she can handle it on her own or with a buddy, and send her here to read the FAQs and articles.

The "gut check" approach is the worst way to go about something that's supposed to be enjoyable. Boot camp, football practice, sure - but not hiking.

Cannibal
03-13-2009, 14:07
It doesn't sound to me like it's slack-packing. The website clearly says "backpack", NOT slack-pack.

Even if it IS slackpacking, that's still a lot to ask from tender newbies, IMO. Heck, I've got a lot of backpacking experience, and I'm younger than my friend, and I personally would not start out the hiking season with a 23.5 mile hike the very first day, EVEN if it was slack-packing. That just seems to be asking for trouble, whether it's huge blisters, a fall from exhaustion or just a really, really crappy, discouraging day.
Yeah, you are probably right. Especially about the blisters; didn't think of that. A fully loaded pack with that mileage would be unreasonable for a new hiker or even a vetern hiker that hasn't hiked in a few months to do on the first day out.

Post
03-13-2009, 14:11
Okay, it's definately backpacking, with full pack. Here is a quote from the site (bolding mine):

"an individual must participate in at least 16 days of group preparation. They also must complete at least two, three-day, 60+mile practice hikes with backpack between April 3, 2009 and April 5, 2010"

:-?

Roots
03-13-2009, 14:14
If what you say about your friends previous backpacking experience is true, then this is an accident waiting to happen. Between risk of injury to her 'unconditioned' body and/or lack of experience, this will be a miserable trip for her, IMO.

Mr. Parkay
03-13-2009, 14:16
Well, this hiking group might not be the right fit for your friend... however, from Warren Doyes Perspective is seems that a "tough" test hike like this would be absolutely necessary.

From what I understand, he guides about 10+ hikers every year, who all need to hike the same number of miles every day. So he has to be sure that every single one of them is in good shape... and willing to push themselves if they have to. Otherwise the hiking group would fall apart real fast.

Anyhow, hiking in a group like this definitely wouldn't work for me, but I've heard that his groups have a very high completion rate.. and that they tend to have a great time.

SGT Rock
03-13-2009, 14:17
Yes.

What is a "gut check"? Good thing or bad?

Gut check is what it is. It is often designed to get you to know you can do something you may think you cannot do. Many people think they cannot do 20 mile days, so start off with 23. By the time you finish it, you realize you can do it. After that, the other miles seem easy. It also serves to weed out those that really cannot do it, or do not have the mental attitude to overcome their belief they cannot do something.

Gut checks usually are not fun while you do them, but often are something you can look back at proudly as an accomplishment.

It doesn't sound to me like it's slack-packing. The website clearly says "backpack", NOT slack-pack.

Even if it IS slackpacking, that's still a lot to ask from tender newbies, IMO. Heck, I've got a lot of backpacking experience, and I'm younger than my friend, and I personally would not start out the hiking season with a 23.5 mile hike the very first day, EVEN if it was slack-packing. That just seems to be asking for trouble, whether it's huge blisters, a fall from exhaustion or just a really, really crappy, discouraging day.

If this is Warren Doyel's group, then I would imagine Warren has been through all this before. This is not his first rodeo. I would imagine he is smart enough to know bail out points for those that truly cannot do it, and he probably doesn't pick the worst 23.5 mile section to do it in. Give Warren some credit on this.


Talk her out of it. Hiking partners are hard enough to stay with. This sounds like a cluster f_ck waiting to happen. Convince her she can handle it on her own or with a buddy, and send her here to read the FAQs and articles.

The "gut check" approach is the worst way to go about something that's supposed to be enjoyable. Boot camp, football practice, sure - but not hiking.
Well that is where you gotta know the person and they have to know themselves. While I wouldn't want to do this sort of hike, you may want to look at it from their perspective.

Warren Doyle has done lots of these. He seems to have a good completion rate. Given that many people do not finish, someone worried they do not have the self discipline or the foresight to anticipate everything may feel this is a better option.

Warren's group doesn't carry packs all over the place - so if you don't want to get accustomed to a 50 pound pack, this is a good option.

Some people do not like to be alone. This ensures you are bonded into a group of people dedicated to the same goal. Sort of like a weight loss group.

The gut check is also to give the folks a dose of realism. Your friend can do one of these and decide that it ain't worth it. Sometimes it is better someone discovers for themselves that something ain't going to work than for someone to try and convince them it won't ahead of time.

Post
03-13-2009, 14:27
Well, this hiking group might not be the right fit for your friend... however, from Warren Doyes Perspective is seems that a "tough" test hike like this would be absolutely necessary.

From what I understand, he guides about 10+ hikers every year, who all need to hike the same number of miles every day. So he has to be sure that every single one of them is in good shape... and willing to push themselves if they have to. Otherwise the hiking group would fall apart real fast.

Anyhow, hiking in a group like this definitely wouldn't work for me, but I've heard that his groups have a very high completion rate.. and that they tend to have a great time.Okay, the concept sounds reasonable. But still, a 23.5 mile FIRST DAY? With FULL PACK and (probably) NEW BOOTS*? I mean, why? Why not start modestly and let them work up to that? A 60-mile 3-day hike is certainly reasonable for the last hike before they leave, but the very first one? I care about my friend, I don't want to see her get hurt or be in tears before her first ever day on the AT is over...

* I will definately stress to her that she needs to break in her new boots extremely well before going on this. But walking around town or even day-hiking isn't the same stress on feet and boots as backpacking with full pack on steep/uneven terrain. There is still a huge probability of bad blisters with that kind of mileage...

Tractor
03-13-2009, 14:29
Post. Perhaps find out a bit more about this upcoming hike and post more detail? On the surface it doesn't sound like anything I would want to participate in, on either side of the fence. IF it is more "supported" than most of us could imagine then possibly not so bad for those with the desire to see it through?? Could be a walking trip sorta like those supported canoe/fishing trips where most basic needs are covered each day 'cept for the motion. I dunno.

CowHead
03-13-2009, 14:38
Warning unless you love or grew up with your trail partner issues will arise. I'll take friends for an overnighter but four days on the trail and I wouldn't like them anymore or vice a versa it takes a special person to hike long distance with friends or strangers. If you need anymore proof watch amazing race

Slo-go'en
03-13-2009, 14:39
I was toying with the idea of signing up for this "circle hike". The idea of slack packing 99% of the AT is appealing - BUT, then I thought about it some more.

It is a forced march. It starts out with big miles which never let up and zeros are few and far between. Camping is at road crossings. Sure you get to hike the whole AT in 145 days or something like that, but it doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Good luck to anyone who does join Warren's speed hike.

Think I'll hike across America on the ADT next year instead. That's the plan anyway.

Lone Wolf
03-13-2009, 14:44
Hello,

I have a good friend who just signed up for what looks like a "guided slack-pack" thru-hike of the AT next year (2010). She will be hiking with a group, they are all expected to hike together, stay together and start and end the trail together as s group. While there appears to be some bona fide backpacking, it looks like the organizers will be slack-packing them most of the time.

This style of long-distance hiking does not particularly appeal to me (I prefer to hike solo and make all my own decisions as I go), but that's not really my concern. What worries me is the training regimen for the thru-hike.

My friend is a mid-50's female, in good shape and has done some weekend backpacking in her life but certainly nothing even approaching the scale of even a typical week on the Trail.

The first preparation hike is coming up in a few weeks. The participants are expected to get to the trailhead at 5 am :eek: Then on their very first day, hike 23.5 miles. The next day they do 18 miles, then the final day is a 20-miler. Um, 60 miles in 3 days? With a 5 am start that means probably not enough sleep right out of the gate? That sure seems like a grueling schedule for a very first-ever backpacking trip. Expecially for out-of-shape people with brand new boots and equipment. I've done a few 23 mile days, but only after being on the Trail for weeks and having my Trail Legs. I'm just worried that my friend is going to get discouraged at the very least, or injured at the worst. The hike is also in Pennsylvania in early April, when there still could be snowstorms, or freezing rain.

Is this as bad an idea as it sounds to me? I do understand that the hike is being organized by a very experienced person who has thru-hiked the AT multiple times, so I concede that he has more experience than I do. But still, I just don't see how this 60-mile first hike in only 3 days is a good idea, especially for older folks.

Thoughts, anyone?

your friend is a grown adult and i assume competent and able to make her own decisions. it's really none of your business how she chooses to walk the AT. nobody is forcing her to do this

Frosty
03-13-2009, 14:44
I would say that by the time a person reaches their mid-fifties, they have earned the right to make decisions for themselves.

That does not mean you shouldn't give her your thoughts, you should. You should tell her them. Once.

Telling someone something once is giving advice. Telling twice is nothing more thna nagging. They already know how you feel, so you are providing no new information. Trying to talk someone out of doing what they want is another way of saying you are badgering them.

Sorry, but a hike will not be fatal. It could be very painful. SHe could leave early and be wiser for it. She could finish, sore and in deep pain, and regard it proudly as one of her great accomplishments. I have never hear anyone brag they hiked the 3 miles out from Deep Gap shelter to Dicks Creek Gap all in one day. Our greatest accomplishments are the tough days, the long days, the days when it snowed, the two days out after a bear got our food, the days we persevered and by God, we did it!

She has the right to decide. This looks suspiciously like gender stereotyping to me. If it was a male friend of yours who wanted to push the envelope, would it be so improtant to you to make sure he didn't take a chance on over-extending himself?

Give her your thoughts, then support her 100% no matter what she decides, do your best to helpo her succeed (instead of fussing that she will do it in new boots, take her hiking and help her break them in) and if she doesn't make it, kindly refrain from saying, "I told you do."

Most people probably couldn't do this. Not because they couldn't do it physically, but the mental grind is enough to make most people cry uncle. Like getting through the VIrginia Blues, it is more mind than muscle that carries the day.

Don't feel bad that this is too much for you to do. Maybe it isn't too much for her to handle.

Post
03-13-2009, 14:45
Sometimes it is better someone discovers for themselves that something ain't going to work than for someone to try and convince them it won't ahead of time.I agree. The last thing I want to do is talk her out of making her dream of thru-hiking the AT come true. I have been encouraging her on this, but that was before I found out about the Bataan Death March on day 1. :-?

I have heard of Mr. Doyle, never met him, and don't have any opinion about him. However, I understand that he has thru'd like a gazillion times, and I certainly agree that he is WAY more experienced and knowledgeable that I am.

That said, I'm still worried about my friend getting hurt.

At this point, I'm not going to try to talk her into or out of anything. I'm just...worried is all.

Frosty
03-13-2009, 14:45
Why is it that Lone WOld and I say the same thing at the exact same time, but he says in one paragrpah what it take sme ten to say? :D

Lone Wolf
03-13-2009, 14:47
Why is it that Lone WOld and I say the same thing at the exact same time, but he says in one paragrpah what it take sme ten to say? :D

i type with 1 finger. one must be pithy

Doctari
03-13-2009, 14:47
23.5 first day miles without a "Full pack" followed by 18 & 20 miles, even on a "Practice hike" sounds rather like a re-enactment of the Dachau Death March. Add a pack, & quite frankly, I would fold.

Assuming a 12 hr day, & no breaks, that is just shy of 2 MPH all day average. Make it an 8 hr day & you are talking 2.9 MPH assuming no breaks.


Maybe showing her the math will help!?!

Post
03-13-2009, 14:52
I would say that by the time a person reaches their mid-fifties, they have earned the right to make decisions for themselves. Of course. In this case, my friend has asked my opinion about this hike, has asked me to advise her, help with gear choices, sent me the link to the website and wants to know what I think if the whole thing. Hence my posts.

bulldog49
03-13-2009, 14:57
i type with 1 finger. one must be pithy

Which finger would that be? ;)

Red Hat
03-13-2009, 15:04
Warren Doyle has plenty of experience and a great success rate with his expeditions. The first three days of prep are basically to see if she has what it takes to stick with it. If she can do them, she'll be fine. No reason to worry or discourage her. She could be in for the adventure of a lifetime! Some folks turn up their noses at Warren's group as not being true thruhikers, but they hike every inch of the trail. So don't let this turn into a "let's bash Warren" thread.

Post
03-13-2009, 15:11
Warren Doyle has plenty of experience and a great success rate with his expeditions. That is what I've heard as well.

That said, I do disagree with the 23.5 mile first day with full pack. I just don't see the need to do that on their very first day on the Trail.

Lone Wolf
03-13-2009, 15:12
That is what I've heard as well.

That said, I do disagree with the 23.5 mile first day with full pack. I just don't see the need to do that on their very first day on the Trail.

then you don't need to join the group. you have no say

wrongway_08
03-13-2009, 15:20
So the 23.5 first day is part of a 3 day "test hike"? In that case, its not going to be that bad, the first day your body can take a lot of abuse and you dont notice the hurt toooo badly.
Second day, you'll feel the pain and have to deal with it during that days hike.

Third day, everything sets in, you hurt and then you can figure out if you'll be able to deal with it all.

Nothing wrong with this. Seems to be a good idea to see if you even want to deal with all the pain and discomfort over the whole A.T..

Maybe if more people did this - even for a regular Thru-Hike, then there wouldnt be the large crowds and big drop outs in the first 3 weeks every year.

Let her try it and see if its for her.

Crazy Larry #1
03-13-2009, 15:36
The gut check is also to give the folks a dose of realism. Your friend can do one of these and decide that it ain't worth it. Sometimes it is better someone discovers for themselves that something ain't going to work than for someone to try and convince them it won't ahead of time.
Warren and I had this conversation about a year ago when he was telling me why he required those who wanted to hike in his group to do this and that is exactly what he said.

I'll never forget him telling me for those who want to do the whole trail if they go and do this first and complete it it will really boost their ego a bit and give them the incentive to complete the trail. Plus during these three days there is a sort of bonding that takes place amongst the participants.

SGT Rock
03-13-2009, 15:42
Well Warren occasionally posts here. Maybe he will come on and explain some of this stuff. When people had questions about his Circles in the past he occasionally answers them here.

Post
03-13-2009, 15:46
Well Warren occasionally posts here. Maybe he will come on and explain some of this stuff. When people had questions about his Circles in the past he occasionally answers them here.That would be great.

garlic08
03-13-2009, 15:53
I met Warren on my thru hike last year, he was SOBO on a section with his son. I say trust him. He knows what he's doing. And that hike is still several weeks away. I would assume your friend has had plenty of time to do her own conditioning, selecting equipment and breaking it in, if needed. Warren is a lightweight hiker (I mean his pack is light) and he's probably coaching his group on going light and using reasonable footwear, which will greatly reduce if not eliminate blisters. It's nice to have a friend like you who is concerned, but she's in good hands.

And by the way, Warren appeared in Lynn Whelden's video about lightweight hiking years ago, which pointed me in the right direction. I owe him a huge debt for getting me back on the trails with a light pack, and I told him that. Thanks again, Warren.

Mags
03-13-2009, 17:05
Okay, the concept sounds reasonable. But still, a 23.5 mile FIRST DAY? With FULL PACK


It is not obviously for you...but it is for others.

Let your friend enjoy her journey. She's a grown woman and I am sure she can make an informed decision if it is for HER.


We are not talking life and death. Merely if a person wants to push their self mentally and physically.

Blissful
03-13-2009, 17:09
Mama Mia I'd never do 23 miles with a day pack at that age until I was hiking at least a good week. Took me six weeks with a backpack to do my first 20 on my hike in '07. If I was under 30 though, why not.

I trusted Warren for several of his suggestions on my hike in '07 but some things I made my own decision (concerning the Kennebec, stealth camping in the WHites, and treating water)

Anyway, I think you're asking for injury at that age to go that hard that long that fast. But that's my opinion.

skinewmexico
03-13-2009, 17:19
Guess your friend had better start conditioning. With a vengence. I watched an old guy with plastic boots and a huge pack tromp thru the YMCA every day this week, and spend a couple of hours on the stairclimber. Glad I didn't laugh at him, he turned out to be a Federal judge, trying to climb Denali in May.

humunuku
03-13-2009, 17:20
so just because this is the first group training backpack...it doesn't have to be your friends first backpacking trip...

Post
03-13-2009, 17:56
Let your friend enjoy her journey. She's a grown woman and I am sure she can make an informed decision if it is for HER.As I stated before, she has ASKED me for my advice and opinion on this.;)

Mags
03-13-2009, 18:01
As I stated before, she has ASKED me for my advice and opinion on this.;)

But you seem the doubting Thomas and seem sure no other way can be right based on your multiple posts disagreeing with what others said.

Did you want advice...or a confirmation of your biases?


IF the first, yes it is tough. It is not for everyone. Some people like it. Give support to your friend..

If the second (which I think is the case): Yep it is bad! Terrible! Tie your friend up with duct tape and DO NOT let her go on this cockamamie trip. Real hikers do not hike 23.5 miles a day. They only hike a certain amount of miles as deemed reasonable by...others. :)

STEVEM
03-13-2009, 18:18
As I stated before, she has ASKED me for my advice and opinion on this.;)

I think you should encourage her to give it a try. She won't be alone or in any danger, and I suspect she'll make some new friends based on the shared experience.

I'm not sure I could do it, But It might be fun to try. It's good to challenge yourself from time to time with things where success is not guaranteed.

Why not go along on the trip. She might surprise you.

Post
03-13-2009, 18:33
I think you should encourage her to give it a try. She won't be alone or in any danger, and I suspect she'll make some new friends based on the shared experience.

I'm not sure I could do it, But It might be fun to try. It's good to challenge yourself from time to time with things where success is not guaranteed.

Why not go along on the trip. She might surprise you.Yes, I will be encouraging her to go. I do believe that she is good hands with Warren, based on what I've read here and elsewhere today. I still disagree about that first day, but that's just my personal opinion. I will encourage my friend to do as much walking and boot-breaking-in as possible between now and then.

Just Jack
03-13-2009, 18:47
I would bet that the closing date for signing up for this trip was
many months ago. I would also bet that trip particiants were
expected to begin a conditioning program to get themselves
ready for the practice and the trip proper. I would also bet
they were given a practice hike schedule. This hike should be
no surprise and they should be ready.

Many Walks
03-13-2009, 19:13
Post: Okay, it's definitely backpacking, with full pack. Here is a quote from the site (bolding mine):

"an individual must participate in at least 16 days of group preparation. They also must complete at least two, three-day, 60+mile practice hikes with backpack between April 3, 2009 and April 5, 2010"
--------------------------------------------

It appears to me that they have a 16 day period of preparation for their hikes. My biggest question is, if they slack pack the entire trail, why would they do long prep hikes with full thru hiking gear? You included "with backpack" and maybe assume it is a full pack? That may only be a day pack with what a slackpacker usually brings, jacket, water, snacks, tp, first aid, and camera (or similar). If that's the case, with a little prep like breaking in boots and doing some miles before hand to get into shape, 60 miles in 3 days is not bad at all over easy terrain. A walk in the park with no load.

I know she asked for your help, but the story just doesn't add up. I think there is a little more to it. She's a big girl and should be able to make up her mind about her dream. If it really is a tough first hike with full pack and she makes it through, then she might be fine for the trip. If she can't make it for 3 days, she'll never make 4 months. IMO, I think they are slack packing on the practice hikes just to get their confidence up on the miles they cover. It's worth checking again to be sure. Wish her the best.

Tin Man
03-13-2009, 22:30
there are ways to do the trail, warren offers one. no one should discourage warren's way as it clearly works for some. and if it doesn't work for you, then try another because surely it can be done by anyone.

Gaiter
03-14-2009, 00:43
but I've heard that his groups have a very high completion rate.. and that they tend to have a great time.

I've heard the opposite, injury is a big problem and they are miserable... he starts out w/ a group that pre-pays for the whole trip, then they drop off w/o any refund... and the completion rate is low...
but this is just what i heard second hand

Tin Man
03-14-2009, 00:50
ooo, slaaaapppp

Gaiter
03-14-2009, 00:53
i finished reading the thread, didn't see the second and third page....
kinda wondering about the source that i heard that from... or maybe its old info... did warren have a lower rate when he first started the slacking?

Tin Man
03-14-2009, 00:55
don't know, only recall high completion rate - his words

Pokey2006
03-14-2009, 01:24
I need to clear up a few misconceptions here.

This is not actually the first practice hike for the 2010 Circle Expedition -- Post's friend is joining in a little bit late in the game. Which is fine, but most of the people who will be on this hike have been on at least one of the other practice hikes. We started out last May with two back-to-back 20-mile slackpacking days. Then we worked our way up to a 3-day backpack, hiking about 20 miles per day, from Linden, VA to the Dahlgren Campground in MD.

Yes, the hikes were tough. But Warren does take responsibility for every hiker on the trip. He "sweeps," hiking at the very rear, making sure everyone makes it into camp at the end of every night. We had one woman in the fall who quit after two days. Warren stayed with her, making sure she got to town and was safely settled into a hotel for the night while the rest of us hiked on. Expedition members have been learning to look out for each other, as well.

The group is made up of people with various backpacking experience, from a couple of us with a lot of experience, to some who started out with absolutely none.

Yes, the upcoming practice hike, unlike the actual 2010 expedition, is a backpack, not a slackpack. Everyone is expected to pack as lightly as possible. That means tarps instead of tents, minimal food, no "luxuries." On the last trip, everyone had adequate shelter, food and clothing, despite packing lightly.

24 miles on the first day sounds awful. But the terrain is about as gentle as the AT gets -- not very rocky, very little elevation gain, etc. (we'll be in the MD-PA area). The second and third days are shorter in mileage, too.

Even if I don't join Warren's group for the 2010 hike, I have to say that I have learned more about my own abilities on his practice hikes than I ever did on my own backpacking trips. I know how far, how fast and how light I can travel. Call it a forced march if you will; I call it a challenge. What fun is life if you don't challenge yourself and test your limits once in a while?

Post, I would advise your friend to break in those boots and start doing some practice hikes/walks. She might want to work on lightening her load, too. Please send me a PM if you'd like to put me in direct touch with her. I'd be happy to offer her my advice.

And guys, don't knock it 'til you try it...

Tin Man
03-14-2009, 01:37
What fun is life if you don't challenge yourself and test your limits once in a while?

i understand and agree with what you said, except a lot of the challenge is taken away when someone else is doing the leading. the rest is just walking.



And guys, don't knock it 'til you try it...

whatever works, works, but this would never work for me. :)

Pokey2006
03-14-2009, 01:47
I don't see how a hike like this is any less challenging just because someone else put it together. Huh? How does having a "leader" lessen the challenge? It's still just walking whether you're on your own or following someone else's schedule.

Tin Man
03-14-2009, 01:56
I don't see how a hike like this is any less challenging just because someone else put it together. Huh? How does having a "leader" lessen the challenge? It's still just walking whether you're on your own or following someone else's schedule.

you're quite right. for me, it would be challenging to follow someone else's plan. a large part of being out there, is being away from someone else's designs for me. it simply wouldn't work for me. yet, i do appreciate that it works for others, which is cool. see -> :cool: :)

Pokey2006
03-14-2009, 02:02
It's definitely not for everyone. Hence, the reason why Warren does these practice hikes. If it's not for you, you learn that -- very quickly.

The practice hikes have actually had the opposite effect on me, personally. I started out disliking the idea of hiking with a group, and have come to really appreciate the idea. I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to this upcoming hike.

Oh, and Post had mentioned something about not wanting his friend to end up in tears over this hike...well, that's one thing I can't promise: I can't promise that there won't be any tears. There have been plenty so far. Tears of exhaustion and pain, tears of fear for some hiking at night for the first time, tears of frustration for those who became separated from the group. But there were also tears of pride and accomplishment, and tears of friendship. It's a very emotional thing, and not always in a bad way.

Tin Man
03-14-2009, 02:08
I hike with bro. We get all giggly planning and prepping. The sniveling starts when we pass the first 200 feet of elevation gain. We don't need any help with any of that. :)

rcli4
03-14-2009, 07:21
You guys crack me up. You fell for this hook line and sinker. It is a troll looking to start crap about warren. Jack aint here so it didn't work, but ya'll keep on.

Clyde

Tin Man
03-14-2009, 07:57
You guys crack me up. You fell for this hook line and sinker. It is a troll looking to start crap about warren. Jack aint here so it didn't work, but ya'll keep on.

Clyde

bah, sounded legit to me and some are giving it a real review, different takes than past haste

JJJ
03-14-2009, 09:23
Post, so long as your friend doesn't fall into the mindset that this is the ONLY way or the BEST way to prep for a Thru, she'll find her way.
If as Pokey says, she's joining in a training plan already in progress, she just needs to do a little catch-up on her on time to get up to speed.
Shared trauma does cause people to bond quicker for the most part.
Good Luck to her.

Post
03-14-2009, 11:59
I need to clear up a few misconceptions here.Thanks for all the great info, Pokey. I feel much better about encouraging her on this now that I have a lot more info. I am confident now that she's in good, competent hands with Warren. And yes, I'm calling her today to ask if she wants to go on a hike! :p

weary
03-14-2009, 12:37
I've met Warren Doyle on several occasions, and met a couple of his groups at reunions at the Cabin in Andover, ME. The group members all seemed happy and proud of their accomplishments under Waren's leadership.

Tin Man
03-14-2009, 12:43
I have met a few thru-hikers celebrating their thru's. They seem very happy and proud of their accomplishment under their own leadership. so what?

weary
03-14-2009, 13:14
I have met a few thru-hikers celebrating their thru's. They seem very happy and proud of their accomplishment under their own leadership. so what?
We were asked questions about a particular kind of thru hike. I replied with what little personal knowledge I had, for what, if any, value it might have.

Warren's "Circles," are not something I would be especially interested in doing. But having seen and talked with past participants I recognize that his kind of walks are valuable and enjoyable to some.

My current goal in life is to find and protect attractive places for people to walk, and to encourage people to use these and existing walking opportunities.

Weary
www.matlt.org

rickb
03-14-2009, 15:48
Warren's "Circles," are not something I would be especially interested in doing.

Me neither, but that is from the perspective of a thru hiker who saw only one other person for more than a day along the way, and him for less than a week.

That said, most hikers don't make it 2,000 miles. Not even close.

Almost 100% of Warren's Circle members do.

Remarkable, really.

It also remarkable that we don't hear from them on line. Not sure if there is some sort of Omerta going on, or if they are simply to wise to post here!

Tin Man
03-14-2009, 15:57
That said, most hikers don't make it 2,000 miles. Not even close.

Almost 100% of Warren's Circle members do.

Remarkable, really.

not so remarkable. he does what most attempters don't. he shows them what's what before they start at springer. i betcha the drop out rates are not that different if you go back to who starts on his prep hikes.

Pokey2006
03-14-2009, 16:42
Shocking, really, that there are hikers out there who don't post on Whiteblaze...

Bet there are more hikers in the world who DON'T post on here, than hikers who DO.

Tin Man
03-14-2009, 17:03
i think completion rates might be better if people did their homework at sites like this. good source right here. just can't be afraid of the characters :)

emerald
03-14-2009, 17:21
just can't be afraid of the characters :)

Really, it's only letters on your screen.:D

Tin Man
03-14-2009, 17:30
Really, it's only letters on your screen.:D

exactly :cool:

Pedaling Fool
03-14-2009, 20:27
Shocking, really, that there are hikers out there who don't post on Whiteblaze...

Bet there are more hikers in the world who DON'T post on here, than hikers who DO.
Not just in the "World", but of all the hikers I've talked to on the AT.
I believe most are not "Whiteblazers", but I'd be hesitant to give a number/percentage.

SGT Rock
03-14-2009, 20:57
Original poster asked for the thread to be closed. He didn't intend for anyone to feel he was attacking Warren Doyle and feels the thread by degrade into a thread about that. So since most pertanant views have been expressed, the thread is closed.