View Full Version : Mountain Crossings
No Belay
03-15-2009, 17:13
I started NOBO in early Feb and just left the trail last Thursday at Davenport due to a family situation. The hike was better than expected and most of the other hikers were great people and we all had a good time. The only negative of the trip was my dealings with the retail portion of Mountain Crossings Outfitters at Neel Gap. I contacted the owner by phone several weeks prior to my departure and he agreed to order a new double stay back sheet for my ULA pack and have it there when I hiked through. When I arrived "OOps, must of forgot about that." The Catalyst pack I bought was sent with an open cell back sheet which I didn't discover until I subjected it to 2 days of continuous rain after leaving Springer. The pack gained 5 pounds every time it got wet. I brought this to their attention at Mt. crossings and after they checked their other ULA packs in stock, it was determined to be a manufacturing mistake. Even though they were ULA dealers, I had to purchase the closed cell ensolite pad at an exorbitant price to fix the problem. I shopped the store and discovered a lot of things priced above retail price.
I write this with only one motive and that's to save folk's starting a NOBO a lot of hassle and money. Take the time to load your pack exactly how you're going to go carry it and then go to a another knowledgeable hiker or reputable outfitter and do a shake down with them. That way you won't carry a load of stuff you don't need for 40 miles and if there is something you're missing, you won't pay ridiculous prices to acquire it at Neel Gap. If you're going to resupply at Neel Gap, send a drop box. Even with the postage you'll come out way ahead and you'll be eating what you want, not just what's available. I would be very leary of ordering anything through the outfitter with expectations of it being there when you arrive.
The hostel at Neel Gap is run by Pirate and it's one of the best I ran across during my short trip. Pirate and RamblinMan do there best to make you feel at home and Pirate is the best damn cook I ran across in 30 days. They both make your stay amusing, comfortable and memorable. I dreamt about Pirate's sloppy joes for 2 weeks after I left there.:)
Good Luck to all of you and congratulations on having the courage to take that first step. Your life will never be the same.
Savor Happy!!
TaTonka
Sorry about the problems with your pack at MTX, TaTonka. I'm willing to bet that if you call Brian at ULA and tell him what's up, he'll set things right for you. Hope that helps some. Good luck!
UnkaJesse
03-15-2009, 17:40
You know, I can't recall ever hearing anything negative about Mountain Crossing up to this point.
Mountain Crossings' prices are not cheap, but my experience as well as every thing I know about them is that they are very helpful, and very fair. Universally they get very high marks for knowledge and service. Sorry you had a negative experience.
You may be able to find cheaper prices somewhere on line, but you are not going to find an outfitter staffed with past thru-hikers that actually use the gear and know what the f*** they are talking about. The prices at Mountain Crossings are in line with any other retailer. I have always been treated fair and they have spent many hours with me over the years. I'm sorry things didn't work out the way you hoped, but s*** happens. I highly recommend those guys. There is no way in hell that I would trust my adventures, gear questions or get advise from the pimply faced kid at the mall that has only been car camping with his dad for a couple of weekends last summer.
Bulldawg
03-15-2009, 18:36
I've always gotten treated real well by Winton and his folks. Sure his prices are just a bit over what you can buy from REI, etc. But look at it this way, he is right there on the trail and not one outfitter I know of will spend as much time working with a hiker, whether he be a thru hiker, section hiker, or a weekend hiker. You can't get that kind of service even inside most REIs. So the slightly higher price is IMO on par.
TaTonka, I am very sorry you ran into an issue at MTNXINGs. I think Hooch is right about Brian. I am also sorry about the issue that caused you to get off the trail. I hope your family is well and healing as we speak.
sticks&stones
03-15-2009, 18:44
The prices at MTNXINGS are higher. Outfitting there for someone who knows better (which isn't many at that point of the AT) I liken to buying popcorn & coke from the concession stand at a movie theatre; very convenient, but extremely premium. But then again no one is holding a gun to the head of hikers who lay down the cash, it's brilliant capitalism if you ask me. As far as your problem w an open cell back pad I'm surprised it was even used in the manurfacturing of your pack, someone dropped the ball. A ULA dealer shouldv'e taken care of that problem, but then again why should they if you didnt buy it there? I'll bet you a buffalo nickel that if you'd said you were writing a book about the AT, or worked for a newspaper, they'd taken care of your problem.
Pedaling Fool
03-15-2009, 18:52
...it's brilliant capitalism if you ask me...
There's a fine line between Brilliant Capitalism and taking advantage of the suckers out there.:D
stumpknocker
03-15-2009, 19:19
Just another voice on this....I have been buying gear from Mountain Crossings since 2001 and have always had great service and never felt like I was paying too much. They go beyond what most outfitters will do to help out hikers and they have the knowledge it takes because they ARE hikers.
That first 30 miles of the Appalachian Trail can be so difficult for a nobo that they may get to the point of wanting to quit. The staff at Mountain Crossing have saved a lot of people's dreams of thru hiking by taking the time to go through their packs and lightening the load on their backs.
I would recommend Mountain Crossings for anyone wanting to get outfitted for backpacking.
Sorry you had a problem there TaTonka.
Not to hijack anyone's thread, but does Winton and the rest of the MTX staff charge anything to "tuck" your pack?
Not to hijack anyone's thread, but does Winton and the rest of the MTX staff charge anything to "tuck" your pack?
Nope.
Not to hijack anyone's thread, but does Winton and the rest of the MTX staff charge anything to "tuck" your pack?
Nope.I guess they make their money when they give you their "gear substitution" suggestions then. Brilliant idea. :D
Desert Reprobate
03-15-2009, 19:49
I doubt Winton is there just to enjoy the atmosphere. He's running a business. Capitalism is what makes the whole thing work. Either start the trail with gear you know will stand up or be ready to pay.
No Belay, running any business relying on hikers is risky business. Look at the number of hostels, outfitters and restaurants that appear and disappear on the trail. It is a labor of love. MTX is a small place so they cannot sell or maintain alot of bulk. Think about those slow months when they get little or no traffic coming through. That means little or no income. Winton does his share of adding to the AT. He has put on free hiking and camping clinics around the North Georgia area, he hleps out any hiker coming through and treats them with respect. Local outfitters every where must compete agains the REI/Dick's Giants. They can buy huge amount of items and sell them for less than local outfitters can sell the same item. I wonder where alot of hikers would be if MTX closed down? I agree with you, plan ahead. But if there is an emergency we will pay more.
bigcranky
03-15-2009, 21:02
I guess they make their money when they give you their "gear substitution" suggestions then. Brilliant idea. :D
We spent several hours at Mountain Crossings last week, on our Georgia sobo hike. I got to watch several hikers go through their shakedowns, and I didn't see the staff make expensive gear substitution suggestions. Seriously, for most beginning thru-hikers, it's really easy to get their pack weights down just by making "gear removal" suggestions.
Sure, it's a business, and Winton and his staff need to (and deserve to) make a living, but they aren't preying on anyone. Hikers are perfectly free to walk right by the shop if they want. But given the level of knowledge and service available there, they do make a decent living and so more power to them.
TaTonka, I am sorry for your negative experience. That sucks for you, and I would follow up with ULA about your odd experience with the foam panel.
ChinMusic
03-15-2009, 21:07
For the expertise MTX offers they SHOULD charge more than REI. I have been VERY pleased with my dealings with them. When I get to MTX on my future thru I doubt I will need equipment changes. I pretty much have things worked out. Newbies on the other hand benefit greatly, and at some expense. It's a win-win.
I will not be mailing a drop box to them and will gladly pay for the convenient resupply.
CrumbSnatcher
03-15-2009, 21:11
one of the best outfitters on the A.T. sorry you had a bad experience.
We spent several hours at Mountain Crossings last week, on our Georgia sobo hike. I got to watch several hikers go through their shakedowns, and I didn't see the staff make expensive gear substitution suggestions. Seriously, for most beginning thru-hikers, it's really easy to get their pack weights down just by making "gear removal" suggestions.
Sure, it's a business, and Winton and his staff need to (and deserve to) make a living, but they aren't preying on anyone. Hikers are perfectly free to walk right by the shop if they want. But given the level of knowledge and service available there, they do make a decent living and so more power to them.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not insinuating they're preying on anyone. I've never been there, but have heard nothing but good stuff about them until this thread. However, from what I do know, this is the exception rather than the rule. I absolutely agree that they have the right to earn a living and that they deserve it, no doubt. :D I'm looking forward to visint MTX some time this year, posibly on a section down that way this fall.
bigcranky
03-15-2009, 21:18
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not insinuating they're preying on anyone.
I think somebody (not you) talked about them taking advantage of people.
The AT in Georgia in the fall is beautiful -- go have a great hike.
The AT in Georgia in the fall is beautiful -- go have a great hike.Wilco.
Sailor (The other one)
03-15-2009, 21:45
I'm sorry you had that experience, TaTonka. When I was at Mountain Crossings last fall, I had exactly the opposite kind of experience. The staff encouraged me to go into town to resupply to save money, and Pirate volunteered to drive me. Alpine did shakedowns for my wife and I even though we were not thru-hiking and did not make any gear suggestions until we asked. When I wanted a ULA Catalayst for my wife, Alpine argued for a Granite Gear Vapor Ki, $80 cheaper than what I would have purchased if he kept quiet. He even volunteered to get me me a replacement for my GG Nimbus Meridian, which was too short for me and which I purchased elsewhere. Kept his word and got me a brand new replacement pack that fits.
I hope your experience is unusual and is never repeated.
And I hope you get back on the trail real soon.
There's a fine line between Brilliant Capitalism and taking advantage of the suckers out there.:D
I've never seen anyone "taken advantage of" at MTX. The staff has always been professional anytime that I've dealt with them since 1990 and Jeff and Dorothy owned the business. The prices are in line with REI, the selection is better, the item quality is usually better and the staff is more knowledgeable. Don't get me wrong, I like REI, my daughter is an REI manager but if the local REI store had to make 90% of their income in 2 months of the year, they would make MTX's prices look dirt cheap. Maybe if you start buying the latest backpacking equipment at Wal-Mart you will be happier.
geek
Yes, yes, yes...I'm at Boudin's ...and having a blast and both of us will be spending our money at MTX tomorrow!!!!!
geek
No Belay
03-15-2009, 23:55
I'm glad to hear the consensus that my experience was the exception and not the norm. As I said, the hostel there is phenomenal and I enjoyed my stay. Maybe the store would have been more impressive if I was a greenhorn but there are a lot more logical means of assuring that you're carrying the proper pack and equipment than waiting until you've hiked 40 miles down the trail ... and it doesn't involve pimply faced kids at the mall store. The jest of my post was that it's probably more advantageous and economical to be prepared when you hit the trail instead of waiting until you hit Neel Gap.
Enjoy your journey and Savor Happy !!
TaTonka
bigcranky
03-16-2009, 07:11
The jest of my post was that it's probably more advantageous and economical to be prepared when you hit the trail instead of waiting until you hit Neel Gap.
Very true, but unfortunately not too common, judging from the packs I saw last week.
Sailor (The other one)
03-16-2009, 07:14
there are a lot more logical means of assuring that you're carrying the proper pack and equipment than waiting until you've hiked 40 miles down the trail ... and it doesn't involve pimply faced kids at the mall store. The jest of my post was that it's probably more advantageous and economical to be prepared when you hit the trail instead of waiting until you hit Neel Gap. TaTonka
I think you're absolutely right. If I knew 3 years ago what I know now, I could have saved a lot of money and a lot of agony, and that's just section hiking (first trip there were times my pack weighed about 60 lbs). And the place I learned the most the fastest - despite all my reading on the net including Whiteblaze - was last fall at Mountain Crossings when Alpine spent four hours with me and my wife going over gear, for free. For us, living in Florida and vacationing on the AT in Georgia the last two years, Mountain Crossings is perfect. We were treated so well (Shameless plug: the first of a three part story about our last trip and stay at MX is on my site) we have vowed to buy all our gear for our planned thru at MX.
Anyone can get their free help. (Go to https://01ef580.netsolstores.com/index.asp and then to Events/Clinics at the lower left) They gave us a copy of their gear recommendations for a safe, light thru.
We could take that list and price shop, no problem, but I think good people like Alpine, Winton, Pirate and the rest deserve support.
If you can find a thru-hiker/salesperson at an outfitters - MX, REI, wherever - then it is logical to get their advice to avoid having to re-buy after agonizing from Springer to Neel Gap.
Lone Wolf
03-16-2009, 07:17
4 hours to go thru a pack? that's crazy
Sailor (The other one)
03-16-2009, 07:27
It was far more than going through our packs, LW. We weren't just told what to do, but why and how and what the options were. I'm a former journalist and I grilled the guy. He gave us a lot of information out of his own experience. If all he did was tell me "You don't need this and you don't need that" - the kind of arrogant "I know and you don't" off handed treatment I had expected - I would have walked out of the place. He took his time and answered our endless questions.
How you feeling, BTW?
daddytwosticks
03-16-2009, 07:33
Buy an ATC membership...help the trail AND yourself. Mountain Crossings gives a 10% discount (cash or check) when you show your membership card. I've must have spent near a thousand dollars there over the last few years...good folks. :)
I think what makes MTX work is their experience. To me there is nothing worse than walking into an outfitter asking about something, we'll say a pack, and the staff look at you in horror when you ask the specs on it because they have no clue what that means. It has happened to me countless times at REI.
Last year I got the chance to hang out at MTX for a little bit and I watched them shakedown several people. Nothing was ever 'pushed' on them, it was only suggestions and advice. I was extremely impressed with their knowledge. Of course the knowledge comes from the experience. When you have thru hikers working for you, it's a good thing.
I tell my husband all the time that I wish we lived closer to MTX because I would definitely buy my gear there. It may be more, $ wise, but to me you get what you pay for.
Jack Tarlin
03-16-2009, 08:54
I spent several days at Mountain Crossings this week, and had ample time to observe Winton Porter and his staff at work.
Here's what I saw:
*I saw everyone on the staff spending HOURS with hikers, helping them with
gear, giving advice, giving suggestions. In every case, this was time they
could have spent with other customers.
*In many cases, the people who got extensive, time-consuming pack "shake-
downs" bought little, or nothing from the store, i.e. if the intent of the pack
shakedowns was to convince folks to swap out their stuff in order to buy
expensive new stuff from Mt. Crossings, well if this was the intent, they
were not trying very hard to do this. In fact, they weren't trying this at all.
*The overwhelming majority of goods available at the store are indeed in line
with the manufacturers suggested retail price. The original poster said that
there were "lots" of items over priced. Yet he didn't name even one. The
suggestion that Mountain Crossings price gouges is patently untrue. I am
intimately familiar with every outfitter on or near the Trail so I think I can
make that last statement with great confidence. How many Trail outfitters
did the original poster visit?
*The food selection at the store is hardly "ridiculously" over-priced. In fact,
the food selection there is superb and is very fairly priced. I should add that
a hiker who leaves the Trail at Davenport Gap, and whose visits to Trailside
shopping venues can be counted on one hand is probably not in a position
to speak with any authority on Trail food pricesor how they compare to
other places. But the fact is that the Re-supply at Mountain Crossings is
superb and the prices are absolutely reasonable. There is no need to send
food here, and the complaint about poor food availability and "ridiculous"
prices is not merely an inaccurat statement. Is it a manifestly false one.
I'm sorry the original poster had a problem with his gear. But in truth, the folks principally responsible for his problem was the manufacturer, and not Mountain Crossings. Nowhere in his original post is there any indication he contacted the folks who either built his pack, or the folks who originally sold it to him.
And I'm sorry there was some sort of screw-up with the things he ordered. But here's the news: This happens sometimes in retail. It's unfortunate, but on occasion, it happens, especially when it's busy, as it is at this time of year. And when it happens, the adult thing to do is deal with it and make do. But to go on-line and anonymously malign the good name and excellent reputation of one of the finest businesses on the Trail is not the way to go. To infer that Mountain Crossings is not a "reputable" place is really pretty vile. This place, its owner, and its excellent staff have been helping hikers for years, and have saved countless thru-hikes. I'm truly sorry that the original poster had a bad experience here, but to imply that this is the norm at Mountain Crossings is a vicious falsehood.
In short, what we have here is a guy who had a bad experience and is determined "get back" at the folks who he feels are responsible.
It's too bad that he's getting back in such an unfortunate manner, as his description of this business and the fine folks who work there is, from beginning to end, a continuous and unwarranted falsehood.
bloodmountainman
03-16-2009, 09:02
I have purchased my pack, tarp tent, and various other gear from Mountain Crossing. I was never pressured into any sale. I was able to save some dollars by listening to the advice of the sales staff. It's also nice to "test drive" some gear right outside the door and on the trail.
We should all do our best to support this outfitter.
Pedaling Fool
03-16-2009, 09:08
I've never seen anyone "taken advantage of" at MTX. The staff has always been professional anytime that I've dealt with them since 1990 and Jeff and Dorothy owned the business. The prices are in line with REI, the selection is better, the item quality is usually better and the staff is more knowledgeable. Don't get me wrong, I like REI, my daughter is an REI manager but if the local REI store had to make 90% of their income in 2 months of the year, they would make MTX's prices look dirt cheap. Maybe if you start buying the latest backpacking equipment at Wal-Mart you will be happier.
geek
My comment wasn't directed at MTX, just saying there's a fine line....besides, there is nothing wrong in taking advantage of suckers, it's a learning experience, that's how nature works.
Gray Blazer
03-16-2009, 09:17
There is no need to send
food here, and the complaint about poor food availability and "ridiculous"
prices is not merely an inaccurat statement. Is it a manifestly false one.
They didn't have any cavair or escargot. :mad:
So much for the moronic statement. I love MountainX. I've gotten most of my good gear there including an antique Jansport pack that I still use. Great place with a great owner and staff.
Jack, you gonna be cooking us some grub at Ron's bash? Looking forward to it.
My first section hike had a one day stop at MXing. While I was there I observed the owner and his staff helping numerous thru hikers shakedown their packs. This was a hiking service not a sales pitch for profit. Most of the hikers had top notch gear it was just too much and packed poorly for the most part. I did not partake of his shakedown help, but just from observing one I was able to shed over 10lbs off my pack in a self-help manner. MXing also let me store this 10lbs at no charge (but I gave them five bucks for the trouble and help) until I finished my section hike. This outfitter deserves the full support and patronage of the hiking community.
Frick Frack
03-16-2009, 16:27
*The food selection at the store is hardly "ridiculously" over-priced. In fact,
the food selection there is superb and is very fairly priced. .
I'm sorry the original poster had a problem with his gear. But in truth, the folks principally responsible for his problem was the manufacturer, and not Mountain Crossings. Nowhere in his original post is there any indication he contacted the folks who either built his pack, or the folks who originally sold it to him.
Agreed on the food. Only some time much further north and TaTonka (?) would have realized this was a good resupply stop.
Agreed on the manufacturer...I would have ULA's a** over this. With the very few equipment problems we had I dealt with the manufacturer direct and they took excellent care of us on both occasions.
Sorry you had a bad experience there TaTonka but that is one of the best outfitters on the trail. After dealing with the ones much further north I REALLY apprecieated Mountain Crossings that much more.
And yes, Pirate is da man!
Glebbber
03-16-2009, 18:09
It seems from my observations that the staff at mountain crossing encourages you to send un-needed gear home, and pack your pack effectivley during a pack shakedown. Not pressure you to buy over expensive gear.
I recomend people take advantage of the service.
Also, in my experience, while their might not be too much selection for food at MTX, all of it is edible, lightwieght, easy to prepare, and completly feasable trail food.
think0075
03-16-2009, 18:21
first off i must agree that pirate is the man and the hostel there is first class. i got stuck there in november waiting for my dad to fly down and finish up the last few miles of my thru-hike with him. Since i went south i obviously had little need for anything at the outfitter. However, the staff and MTX is very helpful and nice. I agree there prices are a bit on the high side but you also have to take into account the remote location they are in. (you cant even buy beer in the county.) and problems with ula packs you should take up with them they have excellent service. and if your worried about prices go to the ula website and order one straight from the manufacture where they hand make them specifically to your standards. And if your pack was getting wet what happened to your pack cover? Up in maine last year we got about 25 days or so of rain, the only time i managed to get my pack wet was at a few river crossings where heavy currents knocked me right into the water. pack covers work well and the last thing anyone wants is a wet pack for the trail.
MTX is the best. I have never felt that they are over priced as I do check prices pretty close. Also the wealth of knowledge from the crew is worth the world. While buying stuff at the store they have actually saved me money by pointing me to the right equipment up front. I like to buy the right thing once rather than have to take stuff back to REI.
Also Beer is available from the store at Turners corner about 6 miles down the mountain. There is a lot of traffic so I am sure you can get a ride.
Bulldawg
03-16-2009, 20:58
Another thing I have witnessed in the past at MTXings is Winton and his staff's absolute love of hikers and the hiking community in general. For example, back in the fall I was doing a short dayhike to the summit of Blood Mountain for some aerial fly overs for a NatGeo documentary about the AT. I had stayed in the hostel the night before to save a very early morning drive. Well I went in the store and grabbed a smoked sausage, an orange juice, a coke, and a snickers. Well when they rang me up I realized I had already locked my wallet in my truck. I said, "Hey wait a minute and let me go get my wallet, I have already locked it in the truck." Winton simply looks at me and says, "What time ya coming back?" When I said I expected to be back for lunch. He just says, "Come back and have lunch with us and you can pay me then, you might think of something you need between now and then."
Now I've been in and out of there a lot over the years because I live 25 miles from there. But Winton and the folks there are very trusting and extremely kind to each and every person I have ever seen them wait on.
On top of all that, sitting with these folks at night and listening to some of the stories these folks have is PURE ENTERTAINMENT!
take-a-knee
03-17-2009, 00:14
Another thing I have witnessed in the past at MTXings is Winton and his staff's absolute love of hikers and the hiking community in general. For example, back in the fall I was doing a short dayhike to the summit of Blood Mountain for some aerial fly overs for a NatGeo documentary about the AT. I had stayed in the hostel the night before to save a very early morning drive. Well I went in the store and grabbed a smoked sausage, an orange juice, a coke, and a snickers. Well when they rang me up I realized I had already locked my wallet in my truck. I said, "Hey wait a minute and let me go get my wallet, I have already locked it in the truck." Winton simply looks at me and says, "What time ya coming back?" When I said I expected to be back for lunch. He just says, "Come back and have lunch with us and you can pay me then, you might think of something you need between now and then."
Now I've been in and out of there a lot over the years because I live 25 miles from there. But Winton and the folks there are very trusting and extremely kind to each and every person I have ever seen them wait on.
On top of all that, sitting with these folks at night and listening to some of the stories these folks have is PURE ENTERTAINMENT!
Bulldawg, I saw them do the same thing with a guy who was training for one of these crazy ultramarathon trail races (he looked the part). He bonked on his run and decided to end his training day early at MTX, he was there with running gear and no wallet, they gave him what food and drink he needed and told him to pay the next time he was in the store. This was June 08.
It's kind of funny that some don't recognize good service when they see it and expect wally world pricing wherever they go.
After all of these comments about Winton and his place there probably is no need to continue providing more compliments, but I must anyway. When I came through Winton was more than gracious with his hospitality and helpfulness. This was despite the fact that I spent little beyond buying some food and staying the night. After all the nights on the trail and in hostels over many years, Mountain Crossing still is remembered as one of the best. This is one of the places I plan to revisit this year once my final section is completed and I take a sort of victory lap of favorite places.
fiddlehead
03-17-2009, 06:20
My dealings with them: Stopped on our SOBO hike in 2001 about 2 days before our finish.
Mentioned it to the new owner there.
He said: "help yourself to a Ben & Jerry's, and congratulations, it's on the house"
Can't beat that.
stumpknocker
03-17-2009, 09:12
The only thing I've ever seen that was grossly overpriced at Mountain Crossings was Liteshoe's book. :)
Darwin again
03-17-2009, 09:52
Considering MTX is located directly on the Appalachian Trail, the price markup is probably still much, much cheaper than getting off trail, going to town, working the phones and credit cards/debit cards/wallets to get a new piece of gear, staying in a motel for that period or whatever.
Location is everything!
I've never heard anything negative about the place and didnt find any reason to be when I was there. Mailed a couple of things home, bought some corn chips, it was all good.
Blue Jay
03-17-2009, 18:14
The only thing I've ever seen that was grossly overpriced at Mountain Crossings was Liteshoe's book. :)
That's because you already have 5 copies. You should have gone for the 6 pack to begin with.
Footslogger
03-17-2009, 18:21
The only thing I've ever seen that was grossly overpriced at Mountain Crossings was Liteshoe's book. :)
====================
She's gonna get you for that ....
'Slogger
After all of these comments about Winton and his place there probably is no need to continue providing more compliments, but I must anyway. When I came through Winton was more than gracious with his hospitality and helpfulness.
Is he the one on the left?
http://mountaincrossings.zenfolio.com/p139771879/h20612a88#h20612a88
http://mountaincrossings.zenfolio.com/p139771879/h20612a88#h20612a88
Sailor (The other one)
03-17-2009, 18:52
Is he the one on the left?
Yup.
Well, I hiked in there on a NOBO section hike, last summer and I thought the place was great I asked about the Hostel they said go pick out a bunk and let us know.
Then after signing in I went back into the store and was buying some snacks paying for the washer and dryer etc, and I mentioned that I was going to come in later and shop and get food they said take what I need and letthemknow when I was done and then later that day I paid, they trusted me!
As I was gathering item's I needed for the trail north, they answered any and all my stupid qeustions they were extremly helpfull, yes thier prices are slightly higher,but with that said, I was treated like family, not like I was at "Wal-Mart" the difference was worth it!
And the gear was amazing, I will be stoping there on my way north for my "thru-hike"! Thats what I wanted to say, it was a nice place.
Your hiking friend; "Cat"
The only thing I've ever seen that was grossly overpriced at Mountain Crossings was Liteshoe's book. :)
Don't pretend like you won't be carrying a copy while hiking out West :)
King_Leonidas
03-23-2009, 16:30
The folks at neels gap are great to hikers, they mean well, but when it comes to material professionalism they are a little dopey. its just a hiker thing, they are all real hikers.
go there during thru hiker zoo time, and you will likely have to peel an employee out of a 'cool dude' conversation with some old hiker they know.
i bought a smartwool shirt nicely folded and on sale, did not realize it was full of holes til i got up the trail. no one there informed me that it was defected. oh well.
like i said, they are great folks, they mean well and know more than any other store on the trail, they are just a little dopey. and their food is quality, but limited and outrageous. i second the notion to send a box here.
King_Leonidas
03-23-2009, 16:46
*The overwhelming majority of goods available at the store are indeed in line
with the manufacturers suggested retail price. The original poster said that
there were "lots" of items over priced. Yet he didn't name even one. The
suggestion that Mountain Crossings price gouges is patently untrue.
very true, the stuff is not overpriced, its just that the selection is limited to the priciest gear.
*The food selection at the store is hardly "ridiculously" over-priced. In fact,
the food selection there is superb and is very fairly priced.
it may not be rediculously overpriced, but its rediculously limited to pricey stuff. 5 bucks for 4 bites of a summer sausage. but it is the gourmet stuff.
And I'm sorry there was some sort of screw-up with the things he ordered. But here's the news: This happens sometimes in retail. It's unfortunate, but on occasion, it happens, especially when it's busy, as it is at this time of year. And when it happens, the adult thing to do is deal with it and make do. But to go on-line and anonymously malign the good name and excellent reputation of one of the finest businesses on the Trail is not the way to go.
winton, as great as he is to hikers, is absent minded when it comes to handling special issues with customers. i speak from experience, as i live in the area.
In short, what we have here is a guy who had a bad experience and is determined "get back" at the folks who he feels are responsible.
The OP was halrdy malicious at all. just posted his experience. bottom line.
Cannibal
03-23-2009, 16:58
I think the folks at Mountain Crossing were great! I had some daylight to kill so I had my pack audited. The kid that helped was fantastic about not being holier-than-thou about what I was packing. He managed to talk me out of a old BD headlamp and a couple of little items. I spent about $28 and took up about 45 minutes of time from the staff. I know they didn't make any money off of me, but I certainly appreciated the service and will go back.
Some of their prices are very high, others are lower. Just like anyplace else, pick what you purchase carefully.
Cedar Tree
03-23-2009, 17:09
My Momma taught me not to say anything unless you have something nice to say. But reading this thread and all the glowing comments about Winton makes it very difficult to follow my Mother's lesson. My dealings with Winton are as a vendor selling the Packa, and not as a hiker. So YMMV as a hiker. But as a vendor, I will never deal with him again. Suffice to say, he is not an honest person in my opinion.
Cedar Tree
Mongoose2
03-23-2009, 19:45
My Momma taught me not to say anything unless you have something nice to say. But reading this thread and all the glowing comments about Winton makes it very difficult to follow my Mother's lesson. My dealings with Winton are as a vendor selling the Packa, and not as a hiker. So YMMV as a hiker. But as a vendor, I will never deal with him again. Suffice to say, he is not an honest person in my opinion.
Cedar Tree
You should have listened to your mother. Calling this man dishonest due to the above is just crazy! Several years ago my son and I hiked into MtX. My son's pack hip belt was hurting him badly (it was my old external). Winton spent nearly an hour working my issue (the store was packed) and fixed the problem by providing me a new padded hip belt for five bucks. He could have tried to sell me a new pack, or gouged me. He did neither. He's a good man and has earned (yes earned!) loyal customers. Your mom was right!
Bulldawg
03-23-2009, 20:09
My Momma taught me not to say anything unless you have something nice to say. But reading this thread and all the glowing comments about Winton makes it very difficult to follow my Mother's lesson. My dealings with Winton are as a vendor selling the Packa, and not as a hiker. So YMMV as a hiker. But as a vendor, I will never deal with him again. Suffice to say, he is not an honest person in my opinion.
Cedar Tree
I don't think I know you cedar, but we live and work close to each other. I can say that Winton has always treated me top notch. Even if I was only in there on the way to Blairsville buying a Coke. Have we ever wonder if it was just that he couldn't or didn't want to buy your goods. I am a buyer for a company in Gainesville and I am certain that some of the vendors I turn down think I am an a$$hole as well. But my customer service when I am on the sales counter is 125%.
Cedar Tree
03-23-2009, 21:24
You should have listened to your mother. Calling this man dishonest due to the above is just crazy! Several years ago my son and I hiked into MtX. My son's pack hip belt was hurting him badly (it was my old external). Winton spent nearly an hour working my issue (the store was packed) and fixed the problem by providing me a new padded hip belt for five bucks. He could have tried to sell me a new pack, or gouged me. He did neither. He's a good man and has earned (yes earned!) loyal customers. Your mom was right!
You are correct Mongoose. I should have kept my mouth shut. Nothing good comes from hate, it just causes more hate. But, I stand by my statements. Winton ripped me off, plain and simple. I encourage him to post his version of our transaction.
I don't think I know you cedar, but we live and work close to each other. I can say that Winton has always treated me top notch. Even if I was only in there on the way to Blairsville buying a Coke. Have we ever wonder if it was just that he couldn't or didn't want to buy your goods. I am a buyer for a company in Gainesville and I am certain that some of the vendors I turn down think I am an a$$hole as well. But my customer service when I am on the sales counter is 125%.
This happened long ago, probably 2002 or 2003, so I don't remember the exact dollar details. But I definitely remember the just of the story. I gave him 2 packas on consignment. He didn't pay me anything up front. He agreed to pay me, if and when he sold them. A few months later, I am reading AT-L and Chainsaw posts about his new Packa he bought at MC. So I wait, and wait, and finally after about a month I call Winton. "Oh yeah, I sold it, I'll get a check out right to you". So, I wait, and wait, and call back, then wait some more, and call back and continue to wait. Nothing. Eventually, several months later, I go to MC (I lived in MS at the time). Long story short, the other packa is gone too. "Don't know what happened to it" He reaches in his wallet and pulls out all his cash on hand, $36. About 1/4 of what we agreed upon. He hands it to me, I take it and walk out. That's my story.
Mongoose2, I grew up in Hawaii, so I have a great appreciation for Mongeese? As I said, as a hiker helper, he and his staff, may be great. But, as a vendor, he ripped me off, plain and simple.
Cedar Tree
Bulldawg
03-23-2009, 21:48
This happened long ago, probably 2002 or 2003, so I don't remember the exact dollar details. But I definitely remember the just of the story. I gave him 2 packas on consignment. He didn't pay me anything up front. He agreed to pay me, if and when he sold them. A few months later, I am reading AT-L and Chainsaw posts about his new Packa he bought at MC. So I wait, and wait, and finally after about a month I call Winton. "Oh yeah, I sold it, I'll get a check out right to you". So, I wait, and wait, and call back, then wait some more, and call back and continue to wait. Nothing. Eventually, several months later, I go to MC (I lived in MS at the time). Long story short, the other packa is gone too. "Don't know what happened to it" He reaches in his wallet and pulls out all his cash on hand, $36. About 1/4 of what we agreed upon. He hands it to me, I take it and walk out. That's my story.
Mongoose2, I grew up in Hawaii, so I have a great appreciation for Mongeese? As I said, as a hiker helper, he and his staff, may be great. But, as a vendor, he ripped me off, plain and simple.
Cedar Tree
Hmmm, fair enough.
Mongoose2
03-23-2009, 21:58
Mongoose2, I grew up in Hawaii, so I have a great appreciation for Mongeese.
Hmmm....if I have a child named Mongoose would we be the Mongeese family??? Hey man, we are also neighbors I live near Buford and 985, we should take a hike this summer
Jack Tarlin
03-24-2009, 08:54
No, it's NOT fair enough.
This is one side of a story, period, and in all truth, if you're going to attack people's integrity or character, or term them "dishonest" or something similar, then you should put your real name on your posts. In all truth, I suspect the problem here (and the animosity) is because Winton wasn't interested in carrying this product any more.
And while I'm here the comment about Mountain Crossings' staff being inattentive or dopey is simply false. I saw a guy spend 2 hours helping a hiker fieldstrip their pack the other day, and the hiker didn't even buy anything except some food. The staff is anything but dopey or casual. They are friendly, professional, and very good at what they do.
And the comment about overpriced food is silly. The reason a Lipton costs $1.29 or less at your local supermarket is because the company buys tens of thousands of them at a time and gets a great deal when they do so, and a great big truck delivers them to the store. Small places like MC buy several dozen Liptons at a time, and they have to have an employee drive 40 miles in order to go get them and bring 'em back to the shop. So of course food costs a bit more in an out-of-the way place like Neel Gap. But to say that the food selection is poor or wildly over-priced is a foolish complaint, and a false one.
Right now, it seems like the comments in regards to Mountain Crossings are about 40-2, with the vast majority of folks having nothing but great things to say about this place and the folks who work there.
And they're right.
max patch
03-24-2009, 09:10
[QUOTE=Jack Tarlin;808582
And while I'm here the comment about Mountain Crossings' staff being inattentive or dopey is simply false. I saw a guy spend 2 hours helping a hiker fieldstrip their pack the other day, and the hiker didn't even buy anything except some food.
[/QUOTE]
Jack, I'm not questioning the accuracy of your statement. I just wonder how in the world it takes a couple hours to go through someones pack and suggest lighter alternatives.
Jack Tarlin
03-24-2009, 09:16
Going thru a pack can be a speedy thing, Max. But when a guy has a zillion questions about stoves, filters, tarps, etc., well this takes a while. I've seen the staff at MC actually go outside and set up two or three different tents so folks can see what they look like all set up. This sort of thing obviously takes some time. The great thing about the staff at MC is that they WILL take the time to show folks whatever they want, and the will take the time to answer all sorts of questions, and they really don't care if the customer ends up buying a whole lot of stuff or not. This is a professional, courteous, really excellent staff; they deserve credit for what they do, and their bos, Winton porter, deserves to be recognized as well. This is without question one of the finest retail establishments on or near the Trail, period.
max patch
03-24-2009, 09:32
Going thru a pack can be a speedy thing, Max. But when a guy has a zillion questions about stoves, filters, tarps, etc., well this takes a while. I've seen the staff at MC actually go outside and set up two or three different tents so folks can see what they look like all set up.
Wow. They should have done some homework before they left.
King_Leonidas
03-24-2009, 10:05
No, it's NOT fair enough.
Right now, it seems like the comments in regards to Mountain Crossings are about 40-2, with the vast majority of folks having nothing but great things to say about this place and the folks who work there.
i have said great things about them, they are great folks.
its just that their poo does smell, which many here seem to not think is the case.
and observing several instances of good service does not discredit the claims of others who have observed otherwise.
the place aint perfect. get over it.
Wow. They should have done some homework before they left.
everyone has a learning curve, its great that mtn crossings is there to help those who haven't done their homework
Just one more comment. It seems that everyone is going on and on about the high priced equipment. The reason that they carry that equipment is because that is what people want and that is what works on the trail. If there were items that didn't sell well then they will not reorder those items such as the packa. I believe that there are still some of them on the hook in the store right now that have been there for a year. It is just one of those things that you love or you don't. Nothing evil there.
There is limited space in the store and they are off the beaten path unless that path is the AT. Will some people not have the best experience with the staff. Well yea...but 99.99% of the hikers that come through the store are treated like kings. I know...I am one of them.
At what point does this tread get redundundundant??
King_Leonidas
03-24-2009, 11:36
Just one more comment. It seems that everyone is going on and on about the high priced equipment. The reason that they carry that equipment is because that is what people want and that is what works on the trail.
riiight. the only liner gloves good enough for the trail are OR's thirty dollar pair.
the only thermals good enough for the trail is patogonia capeline, 80 bucks top and bottom.
simple polypropylene would never work on the trail.
the only insulation good enough for the trail is montbell. nothing else is wanted and nothing else works.
mountian crossings main source of business is folks who don't know what they want, so how can you say that they carry that stuff because it is what people want?
i am at mile 270, and the only thing in my pack that i could have got at mountain crossings would be my pack itself.
sleeping bag? not there. stove? not there. thermals? not there.
my gear is doing fine.
King_Leonidas
03-24-2009, 11:38
Well yea...but 99.99% of the hikers that come through the store are treated like kings. I know...I am one of them.
do they scrub the dirt out between your toes or something?
comments like yours above make people expect nonsense like this out of a simple outfitter on a simple trail.
Jack Tarlin
03-24-2009, 11:46
Um, no offense King, but maybe you should look around a bit more when you go shopping.
They have long underwear other than Patagonia at Mountain Crossings. And they have perfectly good liner gloves that sell for $6.99; you don't have to spend thirty bucks.
And how do I know this?
Well, maybe cuz I'm sitting in the shop right now with a pair of them in my hand. :-?
And the only worthy thermal out there is from Montbell? Geez, that might come as a surprise to the dozens of other companies that sell thermal underwear.
And people don't know what they want when they shop here? Um, I've been here for several hours watching hikers come in and shop and most of them know EXACTLY what they need and want.
So sorry, I have to disagree with King L.'s comments.
All of them.
I would be hard pressed to completely trust any store that does not sell Trangia stoves or similar. Few do. Not sure about this one.
But to each his own.
Jack Tarlin
03-24-2009, 13:05
They sell any manner of stoves that are similiar, or better, than Trangias.
When were you last here, Rick?
saimyoji
03-24-2009, 13:21
They sell any manner of stoves that are similiar, or better, than Trangias.
When were you last here, Rick?
is there more stock than is indicated on their website then?
since you are there, let me ask you a question: i was looking at the loki Tak jacket. it says it has the loki mitts built into the jacket...are they removable? or can you at least fold them back? the n_pack feature..is that basically the jacket folds up into the lumbar pocket and you can then wear it like a pack? thanks.
Cedar Tree
03-24-2009, 13:29
Jack, if you are there, please ask Winton to tell you his side of the story in dealing with me and the Packa. I told you my side earlier. And please report what you hear from him.
Spogatz, he doesn't have any Packas in his store. At least, I know he did not buy any from me, and I am the only place you can buy a Packa.
I stand by my story.
My name is Eddie Hinnant
Cedar Tree
Mongoose, I live in Marion, VA now.
Bulldawg
03-24-2009, 13:54
Jack, since you are there, see if who will be there early Sunday morning to shuttle me over to Woody Gap? I'd like to leave my truck at Winton's and hike from Woody to Neel, arriving back at Neel sometime mid morning Monday, not getting in any rush or anything!
Gray Blazer
03-24-2009, 13:59
Winton ripped me off, plain and simple. I encourage him to post his version of our transaction.
He reaches in his wallet and pulls out all his cash on hand, $36. About 1/4 of what we agreed upon. He hands it to me, I take it and walk out. That's my story.
But, as a vendor, he ripped me off, plain and simple.
Cedar Tree
I'm not trying to flame anyone, but, it sounds to me like you screwed up when you settled for the $36 and walked out. Did you ever submit an invoice?
Winton has a dam good memory. I saw him two years after I met him and he remembered my face and my story.
Spogatz, he doesn't have any Packas in his store. At least, I know he did not buy any from me, and I am the only place you can buy a Packa.
I am not sure if it was your brand or not but it was a hood and packcover combination as I remember. He still has them on the shelf as they arn't selling very well.
skinewmexico
03-24-2009, 15:30
As a ULA dealer, I'm surprised they didn't just give you a new framesheet out of an instock pack, and turn around and call Brian to overnight the correct replacement.
They sell any manner of stoves that are similiar, or better, than Trangia
Too many stores refuse to sell the inexpensive alcohol stoves.
In fact, seeing a $12 Trangia burner alongside a Jet Boil is a rather rare site.
I give the stores that do sell alcohol stoves (of any type) special props. Stores along the AT really don't have a good reason not to offer an alchohol option.
My opinion.
Jack's report that this one does says something good about the store, I think.
Jack Tarlin
03-25-2009, 08:52
I'm not going to speak for Winton, but in brief, the product in question isn't carried at MC for any number of reasons, such as questions about the design; questions about how well it would sell; and lack of floor space. There are plenty of lines and products Winton doesn't sell. Further questions on this should be directed to him, and not me.
As for shuttles, there are staffers available evry day for this; call the store anytime (8:30-6) and tell the folks where you need to go and when; they'll quote you a price and work out a time good for both of you. getting a shuttle from or to the Woody Gap area should not be a problem.
jpelaston
03-25-2009, 11:04
Too many stores refuse to sell the inexpensive alcohol stoves.
In fact, seeing a $12 Trangia burner alongside a Jet Boil is a rather rare site.
I give the stores that do sell alcohol stoves (of any type) special props. Stores along the AT really don't have a good reason not to offer an alchohol option.
My opinion.
Jack's report that this one does says something good about the store, I think.
I was in MTX on sunday and they have at least 3 or 4 different Alky stoves. I know they have the whitebox and another that the name escapes me at the moment.
I enjoyed going into the store. I had just finished a section from springer to neel, and while I have a good setup and need nothing I did enjoy walking around amongst the chaos!
Jack Tarlin
03-25-2009, 11:42
Their best-selling alcohol stove is made by Etowah Outfitters. This has probably been the best-selling and most popular alcohol stove on the A.T. for the better part of a decade.
John Klein
03-25-2009, 17:00
Their best-selling alcohol stove is made by Etowah Outfitters. This has probably been the best-selling and most popular alcohol stove on the A.T. for the better part of a decade.
What pot do you all use with this stove? If I use it with a KMart Grease Pot flames go up the side of the pot.
Jack Tarlin
03-25-2009, 17:04
Something like a MSR Titan Kettle or something similar would work well.
A little pricey but a great pot.
BigFoot2002
03-25-2009, 18:35
There is a snow peak 1400 on my Etowah. Don't forget the wind screen.
Their best-selling alcohol stove is made by Etowah Outfitters. This has probably been the best-selling and most popular alcohol stove on the A.T. for the better part of a decade.
And they are for sale at Mountian Crossings for .01 under MSRP.
Not sure I would agree with them being the most popular alcohol stove in the AT. I did not see one in use during my 07 thru hike.
I would guess that they are the most popular Alcohol stove used by those going into Mountian Crossings looking for an Alcohol stove.
BigFoot2002
03-25-2009, 19:16
In 07 I carried one on my section hike from SNP to Katahdin,
Cedar Tree
03-25-2009, 19:31
I'm not going to speak for Winton, but in brief, the product in question isn't carried at MC for any number of reasons, such as questions about the design; questions about how well it would sell; and lack of floor space. There are plenty of lines and products Winton doesn't sell. Further questions on this should be directed to him, and not me.
Ok Jack, these questions are for you. If you are not speaking for Winton, and you are discussing products MC does or does not carry and why, then who are you speaking for? Do you have a say in what products MC carries?
This is one side of a story, period, and in all truth, if you're going to attack people's integrity or character, or term them "dishonest" or something similar, then you should put your real name on your posts. In all truth, I suspect the problem here (and the animosity) is because Winton wasn't interested in carrying this product any more.
This is where you are wrong Jack, and this is also why I am posting again.
Yes, I have animosity towards Winton, but I assure you it has nothing to do with him not wanting to carry the Packa. I find your "suspicion" ridiculous because I explicitly stated why I have animosity towards Winton. He ripped me off. I gave him 2 Packas on consignment and he did not pay me the amount we agreed upon. And I "suspect" you now know the truth. I detect a totally different tone in your latest post compared to the one above. You strongly jumped in to stick up for Winton and question my motives in the beginning, but now "Further questions on this should be directed to him, and not me."
Obviously, Winton is not commenting on this. I know if someone called me dishonest, and it wasn't true (which it wouldn't be) I'd damn sure be on here telling my side of the story. No comment from him says a lot. I would bet he is well aware of this thread and my comments.
I'm not trying to flame anyone, but, it sounds to me like you screwed up when you settled for the $36 and walked out. Did you ever submit an invoice?
Well, Gray Blazer you are technically right I guess. No, I never sent him an invoice. I am still a 1 person cottage industry, and this happened long ago when I was just getting started. I place a lot of value on a man's word and handshake.
Gotta give props to the outfitters in Hot Springs and Harper's Ferry. They are straight up honest.
No, it's NOT fair enough.
Is it fair enough now?
You know, I have always respected you Jack. You are very loyal to your friends. And you have a tremendous amount of knowledge of the AT. I will always remember the first time we met, and how you treated my beloved Pug. You had dog biscuits in your pocket.
But, you're wrong about this Jack. Winton is a thief, whether you like him or not.
My name is Eddie Hinnant
Cedar Tree
PS.. I appreciate all the PM's supporting me, especially the other vendor who had a similar experience with MC. I wish you'd post it here.
I explicitly stated why I have animosity towards Winton. He ripped me off. I gave him 2 Packas on consignment and he did not pay me the amount we agreed upon.
Let us know how much $ you were shorted and we'll take up a wine and cheese collection for you
SGT Rock
03-25-2009, 20:34
I know Cedar Tree, I wouldn't characterize him as a whiner.
I know Cedar Tree, I wouldn't characterize him as a whiner.
I stand corrected and apologize. But Cedar has made his point and it's time to move on. Life has too many troubles to carry a grudge
SGT Rock
03-25-2009, 20:45
I agree.
I know Cedar Tree, I wouldn't characterize him as a whiner.All I know about Cedar Tree is when I saw him at Trail Days a few years ago, I commented I couldn't wear rain gear like his Packa because my arms were too long. He said he would custom make one for me. We worked out the sleeve length and he took my name, address and email. I offered to give him money up front because after all it was a custom job. He said no, as long as I gave my word to buy it, that was good enough for him.
Two weeks later I received my Packa in the mail. I still hadn't paid a cent for it. He just assumed I was honest and that I would pay.
It is often true in life that one ascribes to others his or her own attributes onto others. A person who would lie or steal is a little quicker to assume that the other person would, and a person as honest as Cedar Tree assumes that everyone is as honest as he is.
This sometimes results in their getting taken advantage of sometimes, and it is too bad, because they are the ones who spread joy and well-being wherever they go.
SGT Rock
03-25-2009, 21:26
All I know about Cedar Tree is when I saw him at Trail Days a few years ago, I commented I couldn't wear rain gear like his Packa because my arms were too long. He said he would custom make one for me. We worked out the sleeve length and he took my name, address and email. I offered to give him money up front because after all it was a custom job. He said no, as long as I gave my word to buy it, that was good enough for him.
Two weeks later I received my Packa in the mail. I still hadn't paid a cent for it. He just assumed I was honest and that I would pay.
It is often true in life that one ascribes to others his or her own attributes onto others. A person who would lie or steal is a little quicker to assume that the other person would, and a person as honest as Cedar Tree assumes that everyone is as honest as he is.
This sometimes results in their getting taken advantage of sometimes, and it is too bad, because they are the ones who spread joy and well-being wherever they go.
That sounds like the Cedar Tree I know.
Blue Jay
03-26-2009, 08:07
It is often true in life that one ascribes to others his or her own attributes onto others. A person who would lie or steal is a little quicker to assume that the other person would, and a person as honest as Cedar Tree assumes that everyone is as honest as he is.
I know at least a dozen people besides myself who agree with this assessment of Cedar Tree.
Jack Tarlin
03-26-2009, 09:45
Cedar Tree:
If you have a dispute with someone, you should discuss it with him.
And while I'm glad you're getting supportive PM's, the commentary on this thread seems to be about 50-2 in favor of the integrity of Mountain Crossings and its proprietor, so your charachterization of Mr. Porter as a thief is really beneath you, and if you think such personal villification elevates yourself or your argument in any way, be assured it does not.
And no, Tree, I'm not speaking for Winton or anyone. All I did in your last post was to answer a direct question you asked of me. Sorry you didn't like the answer, but there are plenty of products and product lines not carried at Mountain Crossings. I can think of dozens of items and lines not carried there.
But oddly enough, I don't see any of them complaining about it here.
Lastly, Tree, the reason Winton isn't commenting here is because he's too busy helping hikers. He doesn't have any time for internight piss fights, and in any case, he thinks this discussion is beneath him.
And in all truth, Tree, with your reckless assertions and name-calling that borders on defamation and outright slander, well I think Winton is right.
This dialogue IS beneath him, and it's not doing your name much good either.
Time to let it go.
SGT Rock
03-26-2009, 09:48
I really think you are making more out of this Jack than Cedar Tree.
Jack Tarlin
03-26-2009, 09:49
I should further add that this entire discussion was instigated by Cedar Tree.
It's sole person was to damage the good name and reputation of a particular business and its highly respected proprietor.
To start a highly provacative thread, and then to get all indignant when people reply to it with differing opinions on its validity is really pretty childish.
People that don't want to provoke lively discussions shouldn't start them.
Jack Tarlin
03-26-2009, 09:51
Rock, he called a friend of mine a thief.
This was reckless, defamatory, and false.
So yeah, to me this IS a big deal.
Others are welcome to their own opinion.
This place is SO popular that the line can be out the door for hours. Was when I came through in 2006. Of course their prices are high. I mean why wouldn't they be? The are right on the trail and there is no competition what so ever for many miles around. Plus it is a very very popular stop over.
My only complaint about this hostel is that it was TOO busy. But I guess that is just an indication of how successful they are!
DavidNH
SGT Rock
03-26-2009, 10:06
Rock, he called a friend of mine a thief.
This was reckless, defamatory, and false.
So yeah, to me this IS a big deal.
Others are welcome to their own opinion.
And you attacked Cedar Tree's character without even knowing him. Sometimes you go straight for the throat Jack when someone even says anything negative about one of your friends along the trail; or sometimes a positive experience with someone you don't like. This ain't the first thread where you blast someone over them having an experience that contradicts your opinion of a service provider along the trail. Not everyone has the same experiences as you do with Ms Janet, Uncle Johnny, The Appalachian Pages, Bluff Mountain, Waren Doyle, MRO, etc.
You gotta wonder if you style of posting does more to hurt the point you are trying to get across.
You are accusing Cedar Tree of libel and slander. As they say in court "truth is absolute defense". So if the event that Cedar Tree claims happen is the truth - then it is neither of the things you have said he has done. You haven't even gone to Winton to ask him if it is the truth, you just attacked Cedar Tree for saying it.
I know Cedar Tree, I doubt he gleefully sat behind a keyboard and said "I'm going to get Winton". More likely he wondered if he should even bring it up and tell his story. Looks like he even regrets bringing it up. But he isn't the only one here on this thread that had some negative comments about the service they got there. He just added what his experience was. He also responded to the attacks you made on him. Yet you chose to say it is him instigating. From the impartial third person who has had good service there at Mountain Crossing and would use them again, and had good service from Cedar Tree and have set around talking with him and have got to know him - I would say that there is probably something to this story but we don't know what is all there. But also from that third person perspective you are taking this WAY too vehemently. Your actions are not putting this to any rest - but rather making it a bigger thing that it was here. Seems like at one point Cedar Tree laid it to rest, but then had to come back and defend himself from you.
Still love ya Jack. Look forward to seeing you out there somewhere. Have you thought about Blue Blazing through the Smokies this year?
Jack Tarlin
03-26-2009, 10:28
Rock:
I'm not accusing Cedar of anything, and I'm certainly not slandering him.
I'm merely disagreeing with him, and also disagreeing with the way he chose to make his argument.
And as for the personal name calling, i.e. publicly calling people dishonest or calling people outright thieves.....well this did NOT originate with me, Rock.
And yes, Rock, I certainly consider him the "instigator" of this argument.
If you disagree with this assessment, please check to see who initiated the thread in the first place.
SGT Rock
03-26-2009, 10:35
Good, then we can let it die...
That said - when are you getting to the Smokies? I'm taking a week off and plan to do some blue blazing and white blazing through there. Have you thought about doing some exploring this year?
Jack Tarlin
03-26-2009, 10:45
Rock: will be in touch when I leave Franklin and have a good idea about my Fontana ETA. Present weather conditions here are slowing everything down. In any case, I expect to see you guys before then, at Ron Haven's party. You better be there or someone else gets your cigar. :eek:
SGT Rock
03-26-2009, 10:47
Outstanding. I plan to be there Friday night. Prior to that I don't know because I don't have a work schedule between monday next week and my last day. I'll try and track where you are. If I can get out for a night or two maybe I'll see you out there.
Lone Wolf
03-26-2009, 11:22
Time to let it go.
yup. heed your own advice
Lone Wolf
03-26-2009, 11:23
I really think you are making more out of this Jack than Cedar Tree.
big time :)
Lone Wolf
03-26-2009, 11:24
Rock, he called a friend of mine a thief.
This was reckless, defamatory, and false.
So yeah, to me this IS a big deal.
your "friend" doesn't seem to think so.
Lone Wolf
03-26-2009, 11:26
My only complaint about this hostel is that it was TOO busy. But I guess that is just an indication of how successful they are!
it's more an indication of location and need
it's More An Indication Of Location And Need
Mcx Does Have The 3 Most Important Items You Need For A Business: Location Location Location!
it's more an indication of location and need
You have a point here Lone Wolf. I can't argue with you here. There is no better location to be than RIGHT ON THE TRAIL (in fact the AT goes right through the place) and no greater need than being the first hostel in 30 some miles where folks can correct their gear mistakes.
David
Bulldawg
03-26-2009, 13:44
I'm not going to speak for Winton, but in brief, the product in question isn't carried at MC for any number of reasons, such as questions about the design; questions about how well it would sell; and lack of floor space. There are plenty of lines and products Winton doesn't sell. Further questions on this should be directed to him, and not me.
As for shuttles, there are staffers available evry day for this; call the store anytime (8:30-6) and tell the folks where you need to go and when; they'll quote you a price and work out a time good for both of you. getting a shuttle from or to the Woody Gap area should not be a problem.
I talked to Cool Breeze yesterday, the shuttle deal is set up.
Their best-selling alcohol stove is made by Etowah Outfitters. This has probably been the best-selling and most popular alcohol stove on the A.T. for the better part of a decade.
Yeah, and good people who make the stuff too.
SunnyWalker
04-16-2009, 23:26
I stopped there on a section hike and they sold me a pari of Keen hiking shoes. Wow, best hiking boots/shoes I have ever used. I thought they were great folk. I saw no pressure or anything. They were pretty laid back and Winton is real personable. I sure enjoyed the store portion and the hostel was just super. It was a real neat first experience in a hostel on the AT.
Lemni Skate
05-03-2009, 07:29
It's funny, but I never thought of the location as a huge advantage. 2000 thru-hikers come through a year, sure, but how many of them did the first thirty miles without having already purchased big money items (tent, sleeping bag, pack, etc.). I'm sure that pretty much the same is true for section hikers.
Other than hikers the place is pretty much in the middle of nowhere (I remember wondering how far these guys had to commute to work). I don't think any business can make it off of just hikers wandering thru. I think Mountain Crossings has worked hard to make the experience for most people a big positive and this has made the place popular enough to get "tourist" traffic.
I don't doubt that some have had a bad experience there. I am an ex-pastor and the "ex" part is because I tried so hard to make everyone happy and it was impossible. I imagine when you're trying to make a living the line between service and being taken advantage of is a hard one to walk.
In short, it sounds like most have a good experience at MC, but unfortunately some haven't, and human nature being what it is, people remember the bad experiences more than the good ones.
Personally I'm not a cheerleader for the place...
We showed up there tired, cold, and wet, and the hostel was full. I asked about the cabins down the road, and the fellow behind the counter scowled and said that they were far away and expensive. He proceeded to sell me a room in a house for $55.
The room was fine, but others told me later that the cabins are close by and cheaper than I spent for the room.
They did the shakedown on a friend's pack, sent home his Whisperlite stove and sold him an alcohol stove for like $55. I hiked with him for the next two days (in the snowstorm around April 8) and he never did get a cup of water to boil with that stove. He was furious AND hungry.
Mikiniki
05-29-2009, 15:55
I completely disagree with your oppinion about Mountain Crossings, I stayed with Cool Breeze and Farsang (two of the guys that work there) they BEGED me to do a shake down, but they didn't push the subject when I said no. They tell you before you start that it typically costs $100 per pound you lose through buying new gear. And with that said, They don't try to scam you, infact CoolBreeze GAVE me a sleeping pad for free when he found out I wasn't useing one. I also know of another hiker that didn't have a pack(don't ask) and they loaned him one. They also offered to loan my friend a pack with a hipbelt since she was carrying a sea bag(she carried that thing the whole way to Gatlingburg)
The guys at Mountain Crossings may not be particularly professional about the job, but they know what they're doing and they give you what you need.
I stopped in last year on my last night before completing the trail. I had very few needs: first, get sufficient candy bars for the last day's hiking; second, get some sort of bag to protect my backpack in checked luggage when I flew home (it's a monster, no way to keep it as a carry-on); and third, attempt to figure out some way to get to Atlanta the day after next for a flight home. I was easily able to get a dozen Snickers bars (didn't need nearly that many had I rationed a little and eaten a third or a half at a time, but why even make yourself think about it the last day out if you don't have to?), they threw in an extra for free. They had a lightweight EMS cloth sack with draw string that worked great for transporting the backpack (used it to get home, then again to get to/from this past Trail Days, thing's brilliant). I was able to use their computer for a bit to check on bus/train transit from the nearby cities into Atlanta, and when those options turned out to be unusable (you couldn't pick up tickets same-day if traveling on a Sunday, boo), they gave the option of an expensive but reasonably-priced shuttle all the way to Atlanta (which, thankfully, I didn't end up having to use, but which I would have used if other options hadn't presented themselves). They shuttled another southbounder and me back to Neels Gap from Springer the next day when we finished. (And, of course, the hostel for two nights in then-quite-cold-Georgia was much appreciated as well, and Pirate is awesome.) I didn't need much (certainly not compared to the more typical aspiring thru-hikers they see that far south), but what I needed I had no trouble getting there. No complaints at all from me -- they were a great nearly-end of the trail.
Mrs Baggins
05-30-2009, 06:05
We stopped there when we were attempting a thru in 2007. We took a room in the house a few miles away and it was fine. It's pricey because you're getting a kitchen, bathroom, and washer and dryer. We shared the house with 7 other hikers and there was plenty of room. As for the store, yeah it's pricey, too, but we found everything we needed and didn't mind paying. Also, they had helped another hiker who was carrying something like 75 pounds. She chucked her too-heavy gear and spent so much on new lighter stuff that they gave her free loan of the van and several of us used it to go into town to use the internet at the library, resupply food at the grocery store and get dinner.
Jack Tarlin
05-30-2009, 09:50
I must disagree with folks who term Mountain Crossings "pricey."
When it comes to gear, their prices are right in line with other independent stores: Just about everything they sell (and they sell nothing but top-quality stuff) is sold at the Manufacturers Suggested Retail price, or in a few cases, just above it. They also always have items that are on sale. To suggest that they are highly over-priced or that they mark up stuff higher than other Outfitters (especially other A.T. outfitters) is simply not the case.
And when it comes to non-gear items, such as food, I'm afraid that a lot of folks are ignorant of how retail businesses operate. The reason that you can get a Lipton dinner for $1.19 at your local supermarket is because the company buys literally thousands of them at a time, pays less for them, and has them delivered thousands at a time by truck. A small store (like a convenience store or outfitter) buys Liptons several dozens at a time, and very often, this entails paying an employee for several hours while he drives many miles away to go buy them. In Mountain Crossings' case, it involves sending someone to Blairsville. In a place like Bluff Mountain Outfitters in Hot Springs, it means sending an employee all the way to Asheville every week. This involves a lot of time, trouble, and expense for the store.
What this means is that there's no way that items like food will cost the same at an outfitter's as they would at, say, your local Food Lion or Kroger's.
And when hikers see an item selling for $1.39 or $1.59 on the Trail that costs half a buck less at their local market, their first impulse is to think that they are being over-charged for the item.
This is not the case.
I have never met Winton nor have I ever been to his store but a salesperson at my business is also his salesperson and gave me his # to call and ask for advice before my trip.
The man spent nearly an hour on the phone with me answering all my questions and some I didn't think of.
never once did I feel rushed even though from the background noises one could tell the store was busy.
Being in a seasonal business myself I was very impressed with the attention I was given
Winton even offered to put my son and I up for the weekend for free so we could come down and get a feel for the trail and what they offered even gave me his personal # if I needed anything else.
I couldn't make it down there for the invite but you can bet we will be packing light and stopping in next month to tell him thanks and support his business
no business is perfect sometimes things fall through the cracks
most often in business you can do a thousand things right but you only here about what you did wrong
Sidewinder
05-30-2009, 10:01
I agree with Jack on MXings pricing, it's top quality gear. The food IMO isn't over priced either once you consider the convenience of it being right there and not having to hitch or drive into town. To spent $1.59 for a Lipton side dish or whatever is cheap, folks that's your dinner. I heard a couple of hikers complaining about spending 35¢ for a pack of noodles dinner, again that was their dinner.
stranger
06-04-2009, 22:54
I agree with the recent above posts. All I can say is try operating a high-end outfitters in the middle of f'ing nowhere, good luck staying in business! Even along the southern AT...
Mountain Crossings is not all that expensive, compared to other "on trail" outfitters. You cannot compare places like REI, EMS or Campmor to places like Mountain Crossings, the difference in terms of volume is hard to comprehend for a typical hiker.
For example, when I ran the pack department at Campmor, we would be able to force pack companies to drop their cost price because we promised to buy 2,000 units. Then we would sell the pack barely over cost, usually around 20% above what we paid for it. Often I would have friends at other shops call me up saying "you bastard, you are selling that pack at $99, and it cost's us $109 to buy it!" But we bought 2,000, and they were buying 25. It may be wrong ethically but it's also reality! Places like Mountain Crossings has to keep thier markup to industry standard, which is 42%.
I would also agree that nothing at Mountain Crossings is average, it's all above average to top end gear, with prices that match. You get what you pay for most of the time!
The bottom line is the reason why so many hikers complain about this place is because they start the trail inexperienced, with the wrong gear and stagger into Neels Gap 4-5 days later hating life and discover they had no idea of what they were getting into. Then buy a new pack, tent, spend $800 of their already unrealistic $1/mile budget, and feel ripped off.
Other hikers stroll into Mountain Crossings at 3pm on their second day, scarf down two hotdogs, buy a few food items and put in another 5 miles.
It's all relative
High Life
06-27-2009, 17:17
free hot dogs ! Nough said ..and the prices arent bad
oh and the folks that work there are super nice .. !!
Rockhound
06-27-2009, 17:44
I agree with Jack on MXings pricing, it's top quality gear. The food IMO isn't over priced either once you consider the convenience of it being right there and not having to hitch or drive into town. To spent $1.59 for a Lipton side dish or whatever is cheap, folks that's your dinner. I heard a couple of hikers complaining about spending 35¢ for a pack of noodles dinner, again that was their dinner.
I will agree with Sidewinder only because I could never,in good conscience, directly agree with Jack Tarlin.
TickPicker
06-29-2009, 18:41
I think I've posted this before but will post it again. Back a few months ago my best friend and I went back to hike Woody to Neels gap. When we were dropped off we discovered we had left our hiking sticks back in the carport. We started looking at what they had, actually looking for the cheapest there. A young man there politely asked us if we knew what we were looking at and did we need anything. I asked him if he had any hiking poles for rent relaying our story of leaving ours in the carport. He said they didn't rent but he'd go in the back and see what they had left in demo's. Someone in the back yelled they didn't have any demo's left. He went in the back and brought out a demo set of Leki's. That took care of one of us. Then he went up front and brought back a pair of Leki's and said......."Here use these, they're mine. Just bring em back safe." This guy had known us for a total of about 45 seconds. We of course brought them back safe and sound and would not have been able to complete our hike at that time. And this is the second time for me personally that this has happened. So even if I pay a few cents more than at walmart or REI online, these folks have earned my business. After all was said and done they didn't try to sell me anything..........
Steve