View Full Version : Pinkham Notch to Franconia....how long?
Panchito
03-15-2009, 22:39
I've been doing a ton of research and this seems to be the best part of the New Hampshire hike, some of the mountains I have already done on day hikes. We were going to give ourselves 5 days. It's 53.7 miles. We are both moderately experienced and in good shape but i think we may have taken on a little too much. Let me know what you think. This forum is just what I have been looking for. It's nice to be here.
warraghiyagey
03-15-2009, 22:49
:welcome:welcome
Many variables but 3 to 5 days would cover most folks. It'll also come down to te weather and how you manage the hut system.
Panchito
03-15-2009, 22:52
We really were just planning on tenting and not using them. I know there are some rules around this but we were just going to plan as best we could and go at it
warraghiyagey
03-15-2009, 22:56
We really were just planning on tenting and not using them. I know there are some rules around this but we were just going to plan as best we could and go at it
Well there are places to stealth along the way, although it's frowned on, it can be done - it's all timing the mountains with the weather and the daylight. great section - ENJOY!
Panchito
03-15-2009, 23:00
Well there are places to stealth along the way, although it's frowned on, it can be done - it's all timing the mountains with the weather and the daylight. great section - ENJOY!
I definitely want to respect the rules and from what I have read you can camp below t-line off of the trail away from water. Thanks for the feedback. I couldn't imagine getting all of that done in 3 days.
I definitely want to respect the rules and from what I have read you can camp below t-line off of the trail away from water. Thanks for the feedback. I couldn't imagine getting all of that done in 3 days.Neither can I. Even if you used the huts, 3 days would be a death march and unless the weather was perfect, damn near impossible.
Probably it would be a help, since you are camping and not using the huts, to see where the problem areas are. Stealth sites are not as plentiful on the Prezzie and Franconia Ridge, and you run the risk of a Ridge Runner chasing you off. But there are legal sites that make a five day trip very doable.
THe first day you will probably have to stop at Valley Way campsite, 10 miles form Pinkham Notch. There is another camp site a mile further, off of Thunderstrom Junction, but it is a mile downhill from the trail. A very steep mile, and not a fun way to start day 2.
A good second night would be Nauman campsite next to Mispah Spring Hut. It is only 10 miles beyond Valley Way but the whole way is exposed and there are a couple of mean climbs.
10 more miles will bring you to the ethan Pond Campsite for the third night. Great choice.
It is 15 miles from there to the Garfield tenting area, a bit of a long day but certainly doable. The only other tenting area is at Guyot, and that is off the trail and downhill.
From Garfield tentsite to Franconia Notch is 10 miles and the most beautiful part of the hike IMO.
So it can be done fairly easily in five days. Planning on six would give you a bad weather day. A good part of this hike is above tree line, and not a lot of fun when 50 mph winds drive rain sideways.
But five days is a nice number of hiking days. That's how I'd do it.
If you did it from Franconia to Pinkham, the 15 mile day would be mostly downhill except for the 1200 foot climb up South Twin.
Pokey2006
03-16-2009, 00:49
Tenting is really only frowned upon above treeline and around the huts. There are plenty of legal spots otherwise.
I'd suggest going Franconia to Pinkham, so that you can cut it short and go down a side trail to Pinkham if you start to run out of time or hit bad weather at the end of the trip.
The AMC has shuttles between the two notches: www.outdoors.org (http://www.outdoors.org).
Chaco Taco
03-16-2009, 10:23
Yea please dont tent on Franconia, its very fragile! Work for stay is typically only set aside for Thruhikers even though we met some sectioners that did it, but it didnt set well with the thru's left out of work for stay.
Lone Wolf
03-16-2009, 10:27
i've tented on franconia in the old foundation
Neither can I. Even if you used the huts, 3 days would be a death march and unless the weather was perfect, damn near impossible.
Probably it would be a help, since you are camping and not using the huts, to see where the problem areas are. Stealth sites are not as plentiful on the Prezzie and Franconia Ridge, and you run the risk of a Ridge Runner chasing you off. But there are legal sites that make a five day trip very doable.
THe first day you will probably have to stop at Valley Way campsite, 10 miles form Pinkham Notch. There is another camp site a mile further, off of Thunderstrom Junction, but it is a mile downhill from the trail. A very steep mile, and not a fun way to start day 2.
A good second night would be Nauman campsite next to Mispah Spring Hut. It is only 10 miles beyond Valley Way but the whole way is exposed and there are a couple of mean climbs.
10 more miles will bring you to the ethan Pond Campsite for the third night. Great choice.
It is 15 miles from there to the Garfield tenting area, a bit of a long day but certainly doable. The only other tenting area is at Guyot, and that is off the trail and downhill.
From Garfield tentsite to Franconia Notch is 10 miles and the most beautiful part of the hike IMO.
So it can be done fairly easily in five days. Planning on six would give you a bad weather day. A good part of this hike is above tree line, and not a lot of fun when 50 mph winds drive rain sideways.
But five days is a nice number of hiking days. That's how I'd do it.
If you did it from Franconia to Pinkham, the 15 mile day would be mostly downhill except for the 1200 foot climb up South Twin.
This is a GREAT suggestion of how to do this section, and if you didn't want to use all the established campsite, there are some stealth site on Garfield Ridge that are in the woods and not in fragile alpine areas. As others have said, on the Pressie Ridge and Franconia Ridge there realy aren't stealth sites, and it is highly frowned upon to camp up there, as you would be destroying fragile apline zones that take hundreds of years to grow.
Even if you went from Franconia to Pinkham, the above suggestion is great, and just to point out, going that way, you wouldnt hike up South Twin until after camping at Garfield, as it is beyond that campsite and just past Garfield Hut.
Enjoy it though, definitely some of the most beautiful hiking!!
I started a long section at Franconia a couple of years ago, and it took me 5 days to get to Pinkham Notch. I think anyone in reasonably good shape could do this section in 5 days. Frosty's itinerary sounds pretty good--it's almost exactly how I did this part of the trail, except that I stayed at Madison Spring hut instead of going off-trail.
Be forewarned: the climb up from Pinkham to Mt. Madison is steep and seems unending (at least it did to me on the way down). But I think that that's about the hardest SOBO climb on this section, with the possible exception of Mt. Garfield.
By the way, you should consider doing work-for-stay at the huts. It's free, the work is ususally easy, and you may get to hang out with some thru-hikers depening on the time of you're there.
This is the itinerary I posted last year for Franconia to Pinkham. We were in no hurry and just wanted to enjoy a week in the woods. We stealthed away from a few of these spots, but our hiking days were pretty close to this. As others have said, Madison up or down is something else, allow extra time. Awesome hike.
AT White Mountains Itinerary
0.0 Franconia Notch
2.6 Liberty Springs Tentsite
7.7 Garfield Ridge Campsite
5.5 Guyout Campsite (0.7 mile side trail)
9.0 Ethan Pond Campsite
9.3 Nauman Tentsite
4.8 Lake of the Clouds Hut (reservations made)
10.0 Osgood Tentsite
4.8 Pinkham Notch
Just want to chime in and suggest that if you don't want to suffer the economic and psychic trauma of the Lakes of the Clouds Hut, the RMC (Randolph Mountain Club) site "The Perch" is a potentially great option.
The distance between Nauman and the Perch is a fine distance for many hikers, and so you can truck on by Lakes without a care.
While you do need to lose a little bit of elevation on the blue blaze down to the shelter, the site isn't very far off the AT and most of the path is above treeline so I bet it wont feel onerous at all. Just bonus hiking.
With an early start, hiking to the Perch from Pinkham notch is not an unreasonable undertaking. Then on to Nauman or a stealth site just past it the next day.
Yeah, I don't recommend the Lakes. Just wanted to spend some time at and near mt. washington summit. Lakes don't believe in feeding hungry, paying hikers. They doled out half rations when I stayed there.
Panchito
03-16-2009, 20:34
You guys are awesome. I can't thank you enough. I just ordered my maps from appalachiantrail.org. Might try to poach out some sites but I will have the utmost respect for the ecosystem. What about bears? Do I hang my food like I have read about?
Hikerhead
03-16-2009, 20:35
You can also do this by going off of the AT and using one car. Start off by going to Crawford Notch and leaving your car here and taking the bus to Pinkham. Started at Pinkham Notch on the BOOTT TRAIL. Up and Over Mt Washington and stop for a little bit at Lake of the Clouds and continued to 1st campsite at Neuman.
2nd day drop down to Crawford Notch on the Davis Path and eat, then continue on by climbing the A-Z trail, 2nd night camp out up on top, you'll cross a stream just before the last stretch to the top or continue down the other side where you'll find water. We went to Twin City our 2nd night because we had a car at Crawford.
3rd day you hike to Guyot campsite stopping by Zealand Hut to eat. 4th day you drop down into the Pemi Wilderness and continue to the Osolo Trail where you climb Mt Flume. You'll cross water just before starting the climb and there was a spring near the top where you could camp on the shoulder. The 5th day will take you to Liberty Springs for water and then on down to Franconia Notch where you can catch the bus to Crawford Notch and your car. We had already done the AT thru here and if you look at at a map, this is more of a direct route from Pinkham to Franconia and it took us on different trails that we haven't done before. Check the AMC site for the bus schedule.
Cookerhiker
03-16-2009, 20:45
Just want to chime in and suggest that if you don't want to suffer the economic and psychic trauma of the Lakes of the Clouds Hut, the RMC (Randolph Mountain Club) site "The Perch" is a potentially great option.
The distance between Nauman and the Perch is a fine distance for many hikers, and so you can truck on by Lakes without a care.
While you do need to lose a little bit of elevation on the blue blaze down to the shelter, the site isn't very far off the AT and most of the path is above treeline so I bet it wont feel onerous at all. Just bonus hiking.
With an early start, hiking to the Perch from Pinkham notch is not an unreasonable undertaking. Then on to Nauman or a stealth site just past it the next day.
I agree with this. I hiked the same stretch that you're planning, also in 5 days back in the early 80s when I was younger but in worse shape than now. I stayed in The Perch the first night out of Pinkham - I think it's a shade less than 1 mile off the trail. The next day was a splendid hike from The Perch to Mizpah Hut - first up Mt. Washington in dense fog and the rest of the way in clear skies. Nights 3 & 4 were spent at Ethan Pond and Galehead respectively. All of the places I stayed were below treeline where you can find places to camp.
Hope you have good weather - have a wonderful hike!
Panchito
03-16-2009, 21:38
Never mind....did a search still learning how to use the site
Pokey2006
03-16-2009, 21:58
You can also do this by going off of the AT and using one car. Start off by going to Crawford Notch and leaving your car here and taking the bus to Pinkham. Started at Pinkham Notch on the BOOTT TRAIL. Up and Over Mt Washington and stop for a little bit at Lake of the Clouds and continued to 1st campsite at Neuman.
2nd day drop down to Crawford Notch on the Davis Path and eat, then continue on by climbing the A-Z trail, 2nd night camp out up on top, you'll cross a stream just before the last stretch to the top or continue down the other side where you'll find water. We went to Twin City our 2nd night because we had a car at Crawford.
3rd day you hike to Guyot campsite stopping by Zealand Hut to eat. 4th day you drop down into the Pemi Wilderness and continue to the Osolo Trail where you climb Mt Flume. You'll cross water just before starting the climb and there was a spring near the top where you could camp on the shoulder. The 5th day will take you to Liberty Springs for water and then on down to Franconia Notch where you can catch the bus to Crawford Notch and your car. We had already done the AT thru here and if you look at at a map, this is more of a direct route from Pinkham to Franconia and it took us on different trails that we haven't done before. Check the AMC site for the bus schedule.
It would be cheaper and more economical to just take ONE shuttle ride instead of two. Why make it more confusing than it has to be?
Hikerhead
03-16-2009, 22:14
It would be cheaper and more economical to just take ONE shuttle ride instead of two. Why make it more confusing than it has to be?
It gave us the option of only carrying 2 days of food over Mt. Wash and not as long of a shuttle at the end. Plus the option of going to town after Mt Wash before continueing.
It wasn't confusing to us but for some I see where it might be.
Pokey2006
03-16-2009, 23:41
In that case, all you have to do is leave a maildrop at the Highland Center. You stop there anyway if you take the one shuttle from Pinkham to Franconia (or vice versa).
Pokey2006
03-16-2009, 23:42
Oh, and take the shuttle at the beginning, so you end up at your car.
Oh, and take the shuttle at the beginning, so you end up at your car.
that's what we did last year and to save weight/time, we cached at crawford notch
Hikerhead
03-17-2009, 00:06
I'm really happy for ya, but that's not what we did. We drove into town, got a good lunch, a good supper, spent the night in a hotel, came back and finished up.
I'm really happy for ya, but that's not what we did. We drove into town, got a good lunch, a good supper, spent the night in a hotel, came back and finished up.
i'm happy for you too :):)
i certainly didn't mean anything negative to your approach.
Hikerhead
03-17-2009, 00:17
i'm happy for you too :):)
i certainly didn't mean anything negative to your approach.
It's all good, it's just hiking. Me the same.
Pokey and I must be related.... by name and both hard headed as hell. :)
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 00:30
I'm really happy for ya, but that's not what we did. We drove into town, got a good lunch, a good supper, spent the night in a hotel, came back and finished up.
Thing is, most people don't WANT to go into town in the middle of a 5-day trip. Kinda defeats the whole purpose. You might as well stay in town and do a series of day hikes. When I answer questions like this one, I assume the original poster is expecting to stay in the woods the whole time.
I might be hard-headed sometimes. This time, I just didn't want this poor dude getting all confused with take a shuttle from here to here, hike from here to here, take ANOTHER shuttle from here to here, then hike all over the place, and taken another shuttle...it's actually very easy and simple. Two notches, one shuttle, five days.
...it's actually very easy and simple. Two notches, one shuttle, five days.
or two notches, one shuttle, one cache, 8 days, no rush, civilization can wait :)
Hikerhead
03-17-2009, 00:42
Thing is, most people don't WANT to go into town in the middle of a 5-day trip. Kinda defeats the whole purpose. You might as well stay in town and do a series of day hikes. When I answer questions like this one, I assume the original poster is expecting to stay in the woods the whole time.
I might be hard-headed sometimes. This time, I just didn't want this poor dude getting all confused with take a shuttle from here to here, hike from here to here, take ANOTHER shuttle from here to here, then hike all over the place, and taken another shuttle...it's actually very easy and simple. Two notches, one shuttle, five days.
How do you know what MOST people want. Are you some kind of expert on how to hike from Pinkham to Franconia. I never knew there was an expert but I guess I was wrong.
The guy ask for opinions/options, I gave him mine, I never said any other opinion was wrong like someone else.
We were on a 1 week vacaton and this way worked out best for us.
Get over yourself.
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 00:46
Wow, dude, you're the one who needs to get over himself.
No one even cares how you hiked it. Notice that I never mentioned how I hiked that section. That's because no one cares. The guy just wanted advice so he could plan his own hike of the section.
You don't have to be a mind-reader or an expert to know that when someone asks about a five day section hike, he means to hike for five days, not hike for two days, then go to town and stay in a motel, then go back and hike for two more days.
Whatever dude. You got issues.
Hikerhead
03-17-2009, 00:50
You don't give advice....you just come on here to shoot down someone eles's opinion?
Go to the hiking pole forum.... they need you there.
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 00:53
Read back through the thread in the morning, sir. You'll see I simply told him there was a shuttle available, with the website so he could look up more information on his own. You were the one who was all "take the shuttle here to here to here." I then just noted that you were making it more complicated than it needs to be. What's the issue? What's your problem?
two hikers collide in the middle of the notches in the middle of the night, news at 5
Hikerhead
03-17-2009, 00:55
Read back through the thread in the morning, sir. You'll see I simply told him there was a shuttle available, with the website so he could look up more information on his own. You were the one who was all "take the shuttle here to here to here." I then just noted that you were making it more complicated than it needs to be. What's the issue? What's your problem?
Go to bed sug, you've had a hard day. :)
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 00:59
Wow, I just can't get over this nasty attitude. Don't you know how to disagree with someone without getting downright mean?
As for the original poster on this thread, I wish him the best of luck with this hike. However HE does it, it's sure to be a great hike.
Hikerhead
03-17-2009, 01:03
I agree, I think I need to be moderated. Nighty night!
we probably got him so confused, he'll be thinking VA instead
Funkmeister
03-17-2009, 02:29
I don't know if you specifically want to hike the AT the whole way, but if that's not important, you should consider something like the Glen Boulder trail. The Presidential Traverse is cool and all and the walk up or down Madison is memorable, but there a zillion hikers there. Day hikers, Hut-to-Hutters, section hikers. Dogs, people with hiking poles, probably a few with filters. On a nice summer weekend, you could easily see hundreds of others. Is that bad? Only you can say for sure.
Something like the Boot Spur or Glen Boulder trail will have a small fraction of hikers compared to Tuckerman's Ravine or Osgood or other popular trails. For some real fun, try the Huntington Ravine trail. There's lots of alternate paths less traveled.
No one has mentioned Dry River Shelter #3--is it still there? If so, worthy of consideration. So is either of the Rocky Branch shelters or Resolution. From any of those places you could make Ethan Pond the next stop.
And once past Ethan Pond, think about --oh rats, I forget the name, and map not handy-- Thoreau Pond, Thoreau Stream, something like that Trail. Nice walk.
You are right, it's a great section. So is the section across Route 16, across the Wildcat Range. Pinkham to Gorham. Save that for some other time. Way lots less people.
I have nothing to add in terms of logistics....
I'll just say that is where I cut my backpacking teeth and fell in love with the outdoors.
No matter where I've been, I'll always love the Whites.
Have a blast!
Panchito
03-17-2009, 16:26
Wow. Didn't mean to start a forum war, however, I am grateful for the feedback. I will take all of this into consideration. I can't wait for the hike. I heard the Pinkham to Franconia section is the best
It is totally awesome. The hard part is getting up and down from the notches. The rest is relatively easy. Take your time and enjoy. :sun
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 16:51
Wow. Didn't mean to start a forum war, however, I am grateful for the feedback. I will take all of this into consideration. I can't wait for the hike. I heard the Pinkham to Franconia section is the best
It is a great section to hike. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
And don't worry about the forum wars, just, as Tin Man said, a couple of hikers colliding in the night...