View Full Version : What about it Ladies? Part 2
dixicritter
03-17-2009, 13:33
Is there an interest in this forum?
Would you use it as intended, meaning to talk about female issues on hiking?
Or would you rather be referred out to an already existing Women only forum that requires more detailed screening?
Should the rules of the forum be looked at and revised or left alone? (see here Welcome to the Female Hiking Forum (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12432).)
Someone had to ask, figured it might as well be me. :)
WritinginCT
03-17-2009, 14:25
I'm sort of torn on the issue.
I like having a place where women can feel comfortable posting more women-centric topics but in all honesty those threads could fit quite well into other general forums.
I also think that men can meaningfully contribute to women-centric topics and should be encouraged to do so. Emphasis on meaningfully.
On any given day here on WB any given thread, regardless how serious/thoughtful the topic, can turn into a dung throwing contest that better belongs in the chimp cage at the zoo. And I would hate to see good women-centric topics/discussions shut down because of idiots. So if that can be taken care of outside a women's only forum- great, if not then maybe we do need a women's only forum.
Am I making any sense? lol :-?
straight forward forums would accommodate what you are looking for writinginct
I read this forum regularly. I like that women's-issues topics are corralled in one place for me.
I don't mind helpful/meaningful replies from men.
I would prefer not to read "boys will be boys heh-heh" replies - they add nothing helpful to the thread. This forum is our girl-zone, the rest of the internet is boyzone.
I don't like to see it when a male voice chimes in with something helpful/on topic and is told to "keep out."
I guess this puts me in the "review the rules" category.
Dixie, none of this trouble started until Alligator got involved and started deleting men's posts. Get the male moderators out of the women's forum and you won't have any more problems. Alligator is causing more trouble than it's worth. I'm a moderator in here, but Alligator has taken it upon himself to take over the women's forum. If he can't stay out of it, I'm out of here.
WritinginCT
03-17-2009, 14:52
straight forward forums would accommodate what you are looking for writinginct
but not every women's issue should have to be in Straight Forward.
but not every women's issue should have to be in Straight Forward.
agreed. if tos was enforced uniformly there would be no need for straight forward
This is Whiteblaze. A public forum. If women want a private, 'no men allowed', forum then form one. I don't see what the big deal is if men post on here. Some men have posted on here before with good advice. You don't like what they say then don't read it.
This forum is our girl-zone, the rest of the internet is boyzone.
Oops! I meant to put a smiley after that.
I hang out in the boyzones, too, and I even laugh at a lot of the joking that goes on. :)
dixicritter
03-17-2009, 15:11
As a member of this site now, I have my own opinion about it. I also know exactly how difficult it is to try and figure out over the internet who is female and who is male. It is next to impossible because you basically have to take someone at their word in their profile that they are who they say they are.
Another thing... say you ban someone from the forum thinking they are male, then actually meet them face to face only to find out you were wrong about their gender. Ooops! You've just screwed up and banned a legit female from the female forum. Man I hate when that happens.
I've recently been chastised to "make sure" that the rules include XYZ... well I'm no longer a Mod nor Admin at this site, just a member asking a question like any other member. I do have that right don't I? If not please tell me now and I'll ask attroll or Rock to delete my account right now and never return to this site again.
the only benefit to a women's only forum is like joon said - it's all in one place - you don't have to dig so much. other than that, what's the point? some men read it regardless of whether or not they post to it. it's not private. you wanna talk private, go find one of your girlfriends.
Here are my thoughts as to why I originally created the Female Forums.
They were originally set up as female only forums but it met some resistance. One of the reason people resisted was because a few of the males said they would like to read the forums because they might get some information they could pass on to their wives. The other reason was because males could also offer some helpful information.
With some resistance I agreed to keep the Female Forums open to everyone to read and post to. However we did post to guidelines about males posting in the forum.
I wanted to have a place where women could go and post where they would not be criticized by some of the males on the web site or have wise ass comments posted for replies. They could also discuss some of their worries and concerns when hiking.
I thought was that the women that did not care if guys read their post or replied to their post would post in the open forums outside of the Female Forums.
I also figured the ones that wanted it kept among other women would post in the woman’s forums.
It only made sense to me.
Like I said we did set some guidelines to the forum. The problem has been enforcing the guidelines. In the guidelines it says to refrain from making rude, crude or otherwise distracting posts. We have continually had to delete post for this reason.
Maybe what we should do is leave the Woman’s forum that we have set up now and leave it the way it is and then the women that want everyone to be able to read and reply to their post can post I in that forum. Then we could create a subcategory under the Woman’s Forums titled “Women Only” and only women can post and read that forum. That would give us the both options.
dixicritter
03-17-2009, 16:50
Maybe what we should do is leave the Woman’s forum that we have set up now and leave it the way it is and then the women that want everyone to be able to read and reply to their post can post I in that forum. Then we could create a subcategory under the Woman’s Forums titled “Women Only” and only women can post and read that forum. That would give us the both options.
I'm not trying to be a pain here, but who would decide who gets access to a "Women Only" forum? How are you going to prove that someone is really female through this software?
The answer is you can't prove it with any certainty unless you actually know the person posting in real life. If this were a small site that might not be an issue, but WhiteBlaze has over 20,000 members now and is still growing daily.
Nice idea but I just don't see how it could possibly work without even more headaches than you've got now. Again not trying to be a pain or anything, just trying to be a voice of reason here. :)
There isn't a "win-win"
Moderate it and stick to the existing rules. people who continually break them....
And, some of the post, I don't get.
Example: What does asking about Miss Janets new hostel, only go in Women only forum? Is Miss J's new place, womens only? (that could be enforced...the panty raids would be the stuff of trail-lore....)
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47951
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 17:00
It's unfortunate a few bad apples ruin it for everyone else. I think some stricter enforcement is called for. Treat it like the straight-forward forum.
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 17:02
I agree that some posts are better off in the general forum, as well. Maybe make that part of the "rules." That the women's only forum be restricted to dealing with women-specific issues.
dixicritter
03-17-2009, 17:03
It's unfortunate a few bad apples ruin it for everyone else. I think some stricter enforcement is called for. Treat it like the straight-forward forum.
Would that also apply to women who complain about men who are respectfully posting in this forum?
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 17:07
Sure. If you're cleaning up the thread, you're cleaning up the thread, taking out inappropriate comments either way.
I do agree with Lilred, though, that the forum should be moderated by a woman.
I think some stricter enforcement is called for.
It's a PUBLIC FORUM. You want private then start a private.
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 17:14
I never said I wanted it private. I never said I didn't want men commenting in the forum. I just want the men who do post in the forum to show a little respect, is all. Why all this bruhaha over such a simple expectation?
dixicritter
03-17-2009, 17:19
I agree that some posts are better off in the general forum, as well. Maybe make that part of the "rules." That the women's only forum be restricted to dealing with women-specific issues.
Do you realize that the more rules set the more work it means for the moderator of this forum? How fair is that for someone who volunteers their free time?
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 17:24
Yes, I totally understand that it would require more work. But you asked for opinions, and that's mine.
I'm still getting caught up in everything that's transpired today...and I'm still not sure what's going on. Clearly there are some issues with how it's being handled.
dixicritter
03-17-2009, 18:18
Yes, I totally understand that it would require more work. But you asked for opinions, and that's mine.
Understood. Sorry, I guess I just have a soft spot for Mods/Admin since I know exactly what they go through. :)
You are correct I did ask for opinions. It is also my opinion that being overly strict isn't necessarily a good choice either. Here's why I say that, because then you have threads that get taken off topic because some guy comes in and posts something... even if he isn't being disrespectful... then other guys come in and tell him how wrong he is to be posting in the female forum, or women that don't want guys posting in here for that matter... then the thread dissolves into why guys shouldn't be posting in this forum instead of what the thread was supposed to be about in the first place.
Now a Moderator has to come in and clean up the mess to get the thread back on track or just shut the thread down completely. Sometimes this discourages females from ever posting another question in this forum again. So by all this it renders the forum a one time use forum for some women because they don't wish to deal with all that drama. They will just go somewhere else to get their questions answered where they don't have to deal with the whole... Hey you Man you.. you aren't supposed to be posting in here.. crapola.
And that's my opinion, has been for a long time. :sun
cowboy nichols
03-17-2009, 18:31
I would think since we are mostly adult and and hikers we can share , if a subject is to personal it doesn't belong on any forum. Some of the men's coments have been very helpful and I welcome them. I sometimes have a problem because of my name but as I hike alone I find it a help to be mistaken as a man.
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 18:31
I agree completely, and for the same reason came to the opposite conclusion, to treat it like a straight-forward forum. Yes, more work for mods, but it does tend to nip those thread drifts in the bud a lot faster.
Banning men is an even more work-intense solution, I think. That's not the way to go.
But then what? Not sure what the answer is. All this because a handful of men can't refrain themselves? It seems a shame.
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 18:32
Oh, I meant to agree with Dixie's post!
theinfamousj
03-17-2009, 19:58
What happens if we changed the name of the forum to "Women's Issues"? Then there could be posts by either gender, so long as it was an issue that related to women-specific issues (that time of the month, underwear preference, etc.).
If a man wants to post and has good advice, so be it. Case in point: some of the good advice on the nookie in the woods thread. ('Course then there was just some male posts that read like, "She said 'sex', heh heh heh.") But in my experience, men tend to see vaginal-issue posts and run screaming for the hills.
They do weigh in on issues relating to footwear, packs, gear choices, and other things which are not directly related to what we are packing in our pants. And when they do, it seems like it is pretty on topic.
As female backpackers, I think it is wonderful that we have a safe space to discuss certain issues. I would love to see it continue. And for the most part, I feel the men on this forum are respectful.
(At the same token, when I need to ask a question that does not require a 'safe space', I post it in the boys-too forum.)
modiyooch
03-17-2009, 22:08
My vote is to keep the woman's forum, and to keep the rules as they are. It doesn't say that men cannot post; it just asks that men behave with their comments. The confusion is with the title of the forum whereas it states that only women can post. Just change the title to women's issues and leave it as a catagory.
wow, is it bright in here?? who painted this room?
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 22:17
My vote is to keep the woman's forum, and to keep the rules as they are. It doesn't say that men cannot post; it just asks that men behave with their comments. The confusion is with the title of the forum whereas it states that only women can post. Just change the title to women's issues and leave it as a catagory.
The problem is that men DON'T behave with their comments.
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 22:18
I should say SOME men don't behave with their comments...it's really just a few comments here and there that keep causing these problems.
yeah, i know. if you could just get those darn people to quit hitting the report button like those research mice on crack.
Pokey2006
03-17-2009, 22:35
For the record, I've never, not once, not ever, hit the "report" button. Never complained to a mod, either.
I'm not trying to be a pain here, but who would decide who gets access to a "Women Only" forum? How are you going to prove that someone is really female through this software?
The answer is you can't prove it with any certainty unless you actually know the person posting in real life. If this were a small site that might not be an issue, but WhiteBlaze has over 20,000 members now and is still growing daily.
Nice idea but I just don't see how it could possibly work without even more headaches than you've got now. Again not trying to be a pain or anything, just trying to be a voice of reason here. :)
I don’t know how to answer this right now because you brought the whole issue up and you asked for opinions and I just offered another alternative/opinion that was listed in you voting poll. I don’t know what brought this all on.
I only posted to point out two things.
1.) The original reason for having the woman’s forum.
2.) To offer an opinion as you were asking from them.
I agree with what someone else posted. I say for the time being keep it the Woman’s Forum and use the same guidelines and treat it as a straight forward forum and see how that works out and pending the possible results from this poll.
My two cents - a woman should moderate this forum. It was fine until gator chased lilred away.
TJ aka Teej
03-18-2009, 08:42
Hi,
First time poster, long time reader.
I'm a father to a 16 yo hiker chick. Some of you might have met ChatterBox over the years as she tagged along with me in Maine. I read some of the topics here to gain insight and knowledge about female hiker issues that a Dad might never be aware of. I hope we keep this forum open to all, and that all act responsibly.
thanks for reading,
Teej
dixicritter
03-18-2009, 08:51
I don’t know how to answer this right now because you brought the whole issue up and you asked for opinions and I just offered another alternative/opinion that was listed in you voting poll. I don’t know what brought this all on.
I only posted to point out two things.
1.) The original reason for having the woman’s forum.
2.) To offer an opinion as you were asking from them.
I agree with what someone else posted. I say for the time being keep it the Woman’s Forum and use the same guidelines and treat it as a straight forward forum and see how that works out and pending the possible results from this poll.
Ummm, not to argue with you here but I did not bring up starting a "Women Only" forum. That was you. I only asked the Ladies for their opinions about the current forum, not starting a new one.
I saw all the bickering over men posting in this forum, was going to bump the poll I did when we first started this forum but that poll had expired... so I tried to recreate it as closely as possible. That's why this one reads "part 2" in the thread title. No ill intent meant on my part at all. Was just asking a question or two. Sorry if I stepped on any toes. Please feel free to close this thread if it is a problem.
In the real world it is easy to know when a group of women are having a conversation and when you might be better to keep you distance and when it might be OK to listen in or join in, either in a limited fashion, or as peer, but perhaps not as a total boar, or bore.
On the internet it is more difficult, but the Female Hiking Forum on Whiteblaze works well.
Some topics I don't read, most I think are ok to read, and some I think are ok to make a comment in, but in a limited fashion. I think the Female Hiking Forum is a forum where essentially all women are moderators, as far as I am concerned. Some men like Lone Wolf do a pretty good job of telling when to bud out either. I don't mind being told to bud out of the womens forum. It might make better sense for it to be moderated by a woman though, or self-moderated by the women participating. Obviously not for me to say.
Nice having women around though.
D'Artagnan
03-18-2009, 09:26
I believe this is my first post in the "Female Hiking Forums" and it feels a little odd since I am most definitely not a female. Anyway, and I may be in the extreme minority with this opinion, but why not just throw caution to the wind and let people post whatever they want. It's been my observation that on Whiteblaze, the jerks usually reveal themselves in pretty short order and are most often ostracized for their behavior. Shouldn't we all just pull up our big girl panties (or big boy underwear) and get over it?
While I believe some of the complaints are well founded, I also believe much of this drama is overblown and completely without merit.
As I stated at the outset, I am not a female so perhaps my perspective is somewhat skewed. If I have stepped out of line, I do offer my most humble apologies.
I believe this is my first post in the "Female Hiking Forums" and it feels a little odd since I am most definitely not a female. Anyway, and I may be in the extreme minority with this opinion, but why not just throw caution to the wind and let people post whatever they want. It's been my observation that on Whiteblaze, the jerks usually reveal themselves in pretty short order and are most often ostracized for their behavior. Shouldn't we all just pull up our big girl panties (or big boy underwear) and get over it?
While I believe some of the complaints are well founded, I also believe much of this drama is overblown and completely without merit.
As I stated at the outset, I am not a female so perhaps my perspective is somewhat skewed. If I have stepped out of line, I do offer my most humble apologies.But do you not see my point that in the real world it is easy to tell when a group of women are leading a conversation, and that it takes a different tone. Men might still join in, but tend to tread more lightly, even the idiots like me. The woman's forum here is like that, I think. The red background is a good way to give men a heads up. It's good to have variety, and its good to have a woman's forum where threads can naturally take a different tone like they would in real life. Its like at a party, or convention, were all people mix but some conversations are participated in and dominated more by men, and some conversations are participated in and dominated more by women. On the internet that is hard to achieve because you can't get the same visual and body language clues. The red boundary works well. The rules don't have to be cast in stone. Men should know to tread lightly, and women should be allowed to interpret the rules as they see fit, or at least amongst themselves. I've said too much already maybe. Cheers.
I think the Women's Forum has become a source of friction and anger, much as the political forum did. It needs to go.
FWIW, this is Whiteblaze, which apparently has heavier male than female membership. The jerks who have way too much time on their hands WILL post, and the mods will keep having to slap them down.
That said, we female hikers either already are a pretty sturdy bunch, or need to become so. Dealing with whatever comes along (a lot them being men) is part of the activity. Most of us are not overly sensitive about stupid remarks...and if we are, we should grow up and get over it. We do NOT need men rushing in to protect us, but can mostly handle the problems ourselves. (Right, kanga?)
I think a "Women's Issues" forum would be a good idea. One without any special rules, so we can stop this endless bickering over who is or is not allowed to post there. Flagrantly hostile remarks will be deleted by mods, just as they are on any other forum.
I also think it is not the duty of moderators to prevent fools from exposing themselves. The duty of moderators is to keep threads, and the site in general, from going into a death spiral of name-calling and arguing.
(FYI, my parents are both rather ill. I am spending most of my time in various hospitals and doctors' offices, instead of on Whiteblaze. Or at work, unfortunately. It sucks to have a job and not be able to go to it. Illness of oneself, or the near and dear, puts things into perspective. I'm enjoying this brief Whiteblaze respite while I wait for a doctor call-back.)
Best wishes for your family Marta.
I used to post occasionally in this forum. I believe I have completely stayed out for some time now.
One suggestion for future consideration if this proves to be too big of job to moderate:
Could their be a forum specifically to request PM responses to delicate subjects. Then the women, or men could respond to a specific question or concern and volunteer how they have dealt with the issue. Not as broadly educational as one would hope, but perhaps the juvenile responses would be limited if there were no public audience.
Only questions would be acceptable on the forum, any response would just be deleted, no questions asked.
Just a thought.
I think the Women's Forum has become a source of friction and anger, much as the political forum did. It needs to go.
FWIW, this is Whiteblaze, which apparently has heavier male than female membership. The jerks who have way too much time on their hands WILL post, and the mods will keep having to slap them down.
That said, we female hikers either already are a pretty sturdy bunch, or need to become so. Dealing with whatever comes along (a lot them being men) is part of the activity. Most of us are not overly sensitive about stupid remarks...and if we are, we should grow up and get over it. We do NOT need men rushing in to protect us, but can mostly handle the problems ourselves. (Right, kanga?)
I think a "Women's Issues" forum would be a good idea. One without any special rules, so we can stop this endless bickering over who is or is not allowed to post there. Flagrantly hostile remarks will be deleted by mods, just as they are on any other forum.
I also think it is not the duty of moderators to prevent fools from exposing themselves. The duty of moderators is to keep threads, and the site in general, from going into a death spiral of name-calling and arguing.
(FYI, my parents are both rather ill. I am spending most of my time in various hospitals and doctors' offices, instead of on Whiteblaze. Or at work, unfortunately. It sucks to have a job and not be able to go to it. Illness of oneself, or the near and dear, puts things into perspective. I'm enjoying this brief Whiteblaze respite while I wait for a doctor call-back.)
well said once again, marta. i am very sorry to hear about your parents.
Ummm, not to argue with you here but I did not bring up starting a "Women Only" forum. That was you. I only asked the Ladies for their opinions about the current forum, not starting a new one.
I saw all the bickering over men posting in this forum, was going to bump the poll I did when we first started this forum but that poll had expired... so I tried to recreate it as closely as possible. That's why this one reads "part 2" in the thread title. No ill intent meant on my part at all. Was just asking a question or two. Sorry if I stepped on any toes. Please feel free to close this thread if it is a problem.
I took it as you bringing it up when you asked these questions:
Yes, I have an interest in a female only forum here.
Yes, I want a referral to another female forum.
Nope, not interested at all
Let's review the rules.
I only threw in another option for your poll that you might not have thought of.
Sorry no harm intended.
dixicritter
03-18-2009, 13:00
I took it as you bringing it up when you asked these questions:
Yes, I have an interest in a female only forum here.
Yes, I want a referral to another female forum.
Nope, not interested at all
Let's review the rules.
I only threw in another option for your poll that you might not have thought of.
Sorry no harm intended.
No problem. Guess I should've been clearer so the guys would understand. ;)
Blissful
03-18-2009, 13:44
Sorry to hear aobut your parents, Marta. I too am with my parents helping out and just saw this. Unfortunately I don't have time to read through all the comments.
I like having a womens forum to talk about women issues. I know the moderating is tough because some just don't have the self control to uh....butt out... but there are specific areas that women should and need to discuss having to do with hiking. And its nice to have a forum where we can pal together. I found my hiking buddy Mercy through it.
It would be nice if the guys who do want to ocmment can get permsission from the moderator if they are offering a relative comment that might be beneficial (one guy did and his post was excellent, hearing from the male POV).
Otherwise they should please try to use self restraint and control and not post.
Many Walks
03-18-2009, 15:49
My first post in this room. I think a women's forum is valid as you deal with things on the trail that the guys just aren't concerned with, but I think Teej made a valid point. Some guys do hike with women and I think it's good for those of us who do to understand your viewpoint of the issues so your hiking experience is the best it can be and not stressed by a lack of sensitivity from the guy. I don't go on to read 95% of the threads once I see the title, but every now and then I see a title that may apply to my partner and I generally benefit from the insight...expecting in turn my she will too. I've helped her with assembling specific gear (to pee standing up) and I learned on this forum to never borrow the yellow hanky to wipe my face. See, that's good info! I hope it remains accessible so we all can learn. But to ask permission to post...OH PALEEZE! Good luck with this, I'm outta here.
Just Lisa
03-18-2009, 17:53
I like the idea of female forums so I can post and read about topics I would not be comfortable talking in front of a man. I was a little disturbed by the question regarding intimacy on the trail and there was a comment or two from men, one in particular was inappropriate....but what the hell?? This is an electronic discussion, you can't FORCE men to not read ...people are going to do what they want to do...you would just think some might have a little respect and leave the discussion to women. If the women's forum were to go away, it's not a big deal, I would still hang out on whiteblaze because of the wealth of information and experience here...But if you are going to have a women's forum...make it a woman's forum.
One of the problems with having the illusion that it's a women's forum, but without really having the ability to keep men out, is that women say things they might not say if they knew for a fact that men are reading.
Changing the status of the forum would destroy that illusion...which would probably be for the best.
dixicritter
03-19-2009, 08:33
It would appear that the description of the forum has been changed. It now reads... "Female Hiking forums This is for discussing female issues"
Personally I think that's a good call... just my opinion though.
Blissful
03-19-2009, 19:50
It would appear that the description of the forum has been changed. It now reads... "Female Hiking forums This is for discussing female issues"
Personally I think that's a good call... just my opinion though.
Thank you so much, good idea. :)
I had read several posts where women seemed to want the centralization of info for us, and also wanted men's input. It just seems logical.