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The Phoenix
03-22-2009, 04:52
(not sure if there is a category about gear out there... I didn't catch one but this may be misplaced)

Today I went to a few local outdoors stores in Connecticut and was absolutely appalled and somewhat amused by their schemes, prices, and all around representation. I am not looking to offend them, but I was listening to people who didn't seem to know much about nothin go on and on about all these gear that seemed useless and $$$!!!

I don't know if all stores are like this, but today I experience an abundance of awful stores. I did find some decent success at Dick's earlier this Month and online I've done okay.

I've tried to rationalize the ludacris prices by telling myself Connecticut isn't New Hampshire or Tennessee... the Outdoors isn't a HUGE market, but nonetheless I was just shocked and a little bit outraged by some 300+ dollar pairs of boots that I have looked at online for 160-180 brand spankin new!

I believe there are some very knowledgable on this website, but some of those sales reps just seemed like... well for lack of better terms money hungry sharks with an outdoor IQ of 0.

What I am gettin at is does anyone know some decent buys that I can find on the web or any stores in the CT area?

Sorry for a little ranting

God Bless

KMACK
03-22-2009, 05:05
Some thimg tells me that you havent been living in CT for very long. Turn on the computer, point, click and ship.

Maddog
03-22-2009, 06:09
i agree...i shop almost exclusively online...shipping is usually cheaper than the cost of gas and tax! :)

mweinstone
03-22-2009, 06:22
this is what im talkin bout. shopping for gear must be done online. it cannot occure naturaly in stores. you see we like to actually sniff the screen and touch and rub the picture of the thing as we click it into our warm embrace and eagerly await its comming in the mail. buying gear from a surfer dude at ems or rei is insultingly cold and impersonal. its like the movie sleeper. no the movie robo cop. when rocky has sex with bullock. man that sucked for them. sex online. gimmie a break. shopping online, ahhhhhhhh

***?

Lone Wolf
03-22-2009, 06:26
www.campmor.com

camojack
03-22-2009, 06:54
this is what im talkin bout. shopping for gear must be done online. it cannot occure naturaly in stores. you see we like to actually sniff the screen and touch and rub the picture of the thing as we click it into our warm embrace and eagerly await its comming in the mail. buying gear from a surfer dude at ems or rei is insultingly cold and impersonal. its like the movie sleeper. no the movie robo cop. when rocky has sex with bullock. man that sucked for them. sex online. gimmie a break. shopping online, ahhhhhhhh

***?
Wrong movie. Just sayin'... :rolleyes:

FatMan
03-22-2009, 08:36
There is no substitute for being able to touch and feel when it comes to items where proper fit is imperative. Buying those items online is a crap shoot and you will either end up getting something that doesn't fit properly, or end up spending a whole lot of money and time shipping stuff back and forth. But the internet is definitely the way to go for supplies where "fit" is not an issue.

My advice is find an outfitter out where the action is. And ask plenty of questions to find out whether you are dealing with a wannabe or the real deal.

hootyhoo
03-22-2009, 09:21
I go to my local shop to try stuff on - then order it online. They have corp execs/greedy owners somewhere that are trying to feed the greed with my money, so I do not feel guilty about it. Our local shop only carries brands like MSR that have a huge mark-up. I know the local shops are trying to get rich and feed their own greed - but some of the prices are not in touch with reality.
I try to look at a peice of gear in terms of labor and material - there is not that much involved in a lot of the high priced gear that is offered.

My story - I bought a kayak at Rockcreek. It sucked. A microbat 250. The bulge in the rear of it made it almost impossible to roll in turbulent water. I paid 1000.00 for it. A week or so later I took it back to Rockcreek with a few scratches. I asked them to buy it back and I would buy another new one - they said it was scratched - I said, look give me 700 for it and I will still buy another - the little creep told me that they could order a new one for less than that - they only paid 550 to get them to the store. So they made 450 profit off me. I was shocked. And screwed. I got no support from them even after they made all that profit off my one purchase. That was in 1998 - ever since them I have been very wary of the markup on outdoor gear.
So when I see someone wearing a 90 dollar pair of rubber sandals I think to myself " feeding the greed".

Jayboflavin04
03-22-2009, 09:43
Yeh...I supported my local outfitter really well this past month. Talk about retail sticker shock city! I did buy a couple items on sale which I considered good buys. I try to support the local business as much as possible but cummon'!!!!! I still do majority of my shopping online, but it is kinda hard to do that when it comes to clothing and shoes!

Dont blame you one bit for ranting an raving. I dont think "profit" is a bad word but as hooch said 90% profit.......that is a flat out screwin'. They need to hand you a tub of vaseline and give you a hug after that.

Old Grouse
03-22-2009, 10:06
You don't say where you are in Ct, but it isn't a big state, so if you don't mind driving a little way, you can try REI in West Hartford, Outdoor Sports in Wilton or North Cove Outfitters in Old Saybrook. Then again, if you don't mind driving a little farther, you can get to Campmor from anywhere in CT before lunchtime - and I recommend you stop at the nearby Tom Sawyer Diner so you don't have to shop hungry.

4eyedbuzzard
03-22-2009, 10:37
I go to my local shop to try stuff on - then order it online.
Which is part of the reason brick and mortar store's volumes are down, which leads to higher prices.

They have corp execs/greedy owners somewhere that are trying to feed the greed with my money, so I do not feel guilty about it. Our local shop only carries brands like MSR that have a huge mark-up. I know the local shops are trying to get rich and feed their own greed - but some of the prices are not in touch with reality.
I doubt many small independent outfitters are getting filthy rich, most are barely getting by or going out of business.

I try to look at a peice of gear in terms of labor and material - there is not that much involved in a lot of the high priced gear that is offered.
Except little things like selling it, transporting it, placing it, inventorying it.


My story - I bought a kayak at Rockcreek. It sucked. A microbat 250. The bulge in the rear of it made it almost impossible to roll in turbulent water. I paid 1000.00 for it. A week or so later I took it back to Rockcreek with a few scratches. I asked them to buy it back and I would buy another new one - they said it was scratched - I said, look give me 700 for it and I will still buy another - the little creep told me that they could order a new one for less than that - they only paid 550 to get them to the store. So they made 450 profit off me. I was shocked. And screwed. I got no support from them even after they made all that profit off my one purchase. That was in 1998 - ever since them I have been very wary of the markup on outdoor gear.
So when I see someone wearing a 90 dollar pair of rubber sandals I think to myself " feeding the greed".
They didn't make $450 profit. They made $450 gross margin. Subtract a few things from that like rent, utilities, fixtures, inventory costs, insurance, payroll, etc.

When you paid that $1000 you also had the choice to not buy it at that price. If it was defective, as you claim, then yeah, you got a legitimate gripe in that department. But complaining about the price itself isn't part of it--that's just good old fashioned buyers remorse. We all have the option NOT TO BUY.

wrongway_08
03-22-2009, 10:40
Just sit back and wait for the end of year sales, then the prices are in line with what the product is really worth.

I have bought too many items at full retail, then a month later they go on sale for almost 50% off.

Yes, the store will be a little higher then on line, due to the cost of running a store front but they do rob you if you are one of the "need it today because I'm hiking tomorrow" people.

wrongway_08
03-22-2009, 10:45
4eyedBuzzard, you are correct.

If you go into a store and try stuff on, walk around with it, learn about the product - that is worth the couple of dollars more it cost to buy it from a store.

If your going to complain about the store prices, then dont use the store benifits - try'n on stuff, getting to see the quality of the product, compare it against other products at the store. These are a few reasons why its cheaper to shop on line, your not getting those benifits.

Its kinda like stealing in a way.

4eyedbuzzard
03-22-2009, 10:45
Just sit back and wait for the end of year sales, then the prices are in line with what the product is really worth.

I have bought too many items at full retail, then a month later they go on sale for almost 50% off.

Yes, the store will be a little higher then on line, due to the cost of running a store front but they do rob you if you are one of the "need it today because I'm hiking tomorrow" people.

Yep. Just like paying $600 for an iPhone when they first came out, or $500 for Taylormade's latest Titanium driver. I always figure last years latest and greatest is good enough at less than 1/2 the price.

I try to buy at the local outfitters in St. Johnsbury, VT or Littleton, NH. Usually I'll wait for a sale unless it's just fuel or something small. But I've also told them sometimes when I can get something significantly cheaper online(factoring in shipping cost). Sometimes they'll work a deal to reduce the price, sometimes not. Either way, I try to give them a chance to get the sale.

WritinginCT
03-22-2009, 13:50
There is a painful lack of decent outfitters in CT. PAINFUL.

Feral Bill
03-22-2009, 14:04
Funny, I often shop online and buy locally. I do have a well stocked and staffed REI and Mountain Gear in town, as well as others. Being cheap, I do shop sales.

Pacific Tortuga
03-22-2009, 14:15
I have wanted to work part time at REI for years, love the sights, smells, hiker grianola bunnys and employee discounts.

My delima is I cannot sell in good conscious totally all their gear to a 'want to be' long distance hiker even when you know you could get away with it.

I would like the hiker to get the best products for him or her needs and I'm sure the powers that be would give me a hand full of rocks :-?
to kick on down the road when they gave me the boot.

Hands on and the web work well together for me.

Franco
03-22-2009, 17:25
All fine comments from people that have never run their own retail operation. Have a go at it and see if you do not change your mind.
Franco

Tin Man
03-22-2009, 17:31
There is a painful lack of decent outfitters in CT. PAINFUL.

as has been mentioned before, campmor.com is excellent and their retail outlet in paramus is not too terribly far

elangomat
03-22-2009, 17:38
For what it's worth, Backpacker named North Cove Outfitters of Old Sayville, CT Retailer of the Year.

4eyedbuzzard
03-22-2009, 17:47
as has been mentioned before, campmor.com is excellent and their retail outlet in paramus is not too terribly far

When I lived in Jersey I used to go to their store up on Rt 17 a couple times a year. Kind of like Tim the Tool Man going into the world's largest hardware store. I could (and did) spend hours in there just looking at everything. Dropped more than a few dollars too. Still have a old brown Campmor brand down bag from the early 70's. Lofts up nice to this day, but it is a bit heavier than the newer stuff. They've done well over the years.

JDCool1
03-22-2009, 17:48
It is really easy to tell that very few on this thread have ever worked in retail. I reallly enjoy letting you try on my good clean gear, rub your sweat all over it, and then go out, leaving me with essentially an used piece while your run over to your online store. You took advantage of my "charity" in training the clerk, providing, a display and the item you "dirtied", all without cost to you. You failed to cover my cost by making a purchase, then you turn around and complain about it. Your greed is a real pain. Now you want to know why there isn't more knowledgable outlets for your pleasure. Some of you are real " pieces of work". You deserve the hassle of numerous online exchanges.

Tin Man
03-22-2009, 17:50
For what it's worth, Backpacker named North Cove Outfitters of Old Sayville, CT Retailer of the Year.

interesting. depends on where folks live in ct. paramus is closer for me. but i will have to check it out the next time i am down that way. thanks for sharing.

Tin Man
03-22-2009, 17:53
It is really easy to tell that very few on this thread have ever worked in retail. I reallly enjoy letting you try on my good clean gear, rub your sweat all over it, and then go out, leaving me with essentially an used piece while your run over to your online store. You took advantage of my "charity" in training the clerk, providing, a display and the item you "dirtied", all without cost to you. You failed to cover my cost by making a purchase, then you turn around and complain about it. Your greed is a real pain. Now you want to know why there isn't more knowledgable outlets for your pleasure. Some of you are real " pieces of work". You deserve the hassle of numerous online exchanges.

have to agree. people are expecting all the service at wal-mart prices. :rolleyes:

sarbar
03-22-2009, 18:04
Our local shop only carries brands like MSR that have a huge mark-up. I know the local shops are trying to get rich and feed their own greed - but some of the prices are not in touch with reality.

.......

I try to look at a peice of gear in terms of labor and material - there is not that much involved in a lot of the high priced gear that is offered.

Much of MSR's line is made in the US, here in Seattle, Wa. One of my friends works for them and has for many years. What some would consider "over priced" is the cost of keeping US jobs and products that work. An $80 stove made here is often well worth it - over a $40 stove made in China.

Local shops are not trying to get rich, they are trying to stay in business! An example.....if I sell a pot set in my shop online it is the suggested retail price. I pay a base price which is around 40 to 50% off retail. Yeah, getting rich....that would be great. :rolleyes:

sarbar
03-22-2009, 18:07
And to which I will add - the cost of raw materials is quite expensive often for metal. As is the cost of R&D for gear companies. They have to as well protect their products from being ripped off by factories in China - which happens often.

If anyone thinks gear is over priced...go buy high end silnylon! It runs $10 to 15 or more per yard - so take 40% off for wholesale and then add in your time.

Yeah, $300 for a well made (in the US) tarp tent becomes a bargain! Skill is worth a big chunk of it.

Kanati
03-22-2009, 18:21
They didn't make $450 profit. They made $450 gross margin. Subtract a few things from that like rent, utilities, fixtures, inventory costs, insurance, payroll, etc.

Wrong! When they tell you what they pay for an item they have figured base cost, indirect cost and variable cost into it. This is usually done by applying a multiplier to their base cost. The multiplier is also variable as cost of doing business changes throughout the year. Most small Mom and Pop stores probably don't get this sophistacted with their pricing, but some are very astute at maximizing profitability. Larger stores, without naming any, are very good at sticking it to the customer. Why else would a pair of hiking boots made in China for little of nothing sell in the U.S. for upwards of $200.00 ??

All specialized equipment is the same. I also deal with cost of archery equipment. Sinful when a hunting arrow cost $16.00 !!!!!

Just the way it is. Happy hiking. :sun

Bearpaw
03-22-2009, 18:30
A lot of high end items don't bring a high percentage of profit. The reason REI's 20% coupons don't apply to most of their bigger electronic (GPS, PLB's), boats or non-Novara bikes is the coop makes no more than about 20% profit at most on those items, often less.

REI may be huge compared to local outfitters, but compared to traditional big box stores, they are still a tiny business. They were pretty much immune to the recession up until this last year. Now even REI has felt some pinching.

For a local, one-store outfitter, margins have to be much tighter still. If you have a local outfitter that you like to visit to try stuff out, BUY FROM THEM!! Otherwise, they likely won't be there much longer.

shelterbuilder
03-22-2009, 20:12
A lot of high end items don't bring a high percentage of profit...For a local, one-store outfitter, margins have to be much tighter still. If you have a local outfitter that you like to visit to try stuff out, BUY FROM THEM!! Otherwise, they likely won't be there much longer.

I have to agree with this. Over the last 35 years, my area has seen a half-dozen GOOD local retailers (often with very knowledgable salespeople) go under because folks would go in, try on stuff, pick the salesperson's brain, and then go buy elsewhere. Yes, we've all done it to some extent, but if you're going to "waste" the clerk's time and then buy NOTHING from them, then you've got to realize that, in the long run, you're only hurting yourself, because when the store closes, you'll have nowhere to go.

I have trouble getting a good fit with footwear. I'd NEVER buy from a catalogue - I have to go into a store and try on several pairs of boots and literally walk around the store for 20 minutes in each pair. After all of THAT, I don't think that I'd have the stones to walk out without buying!!!:o

WritinginCT
03-22-2009, 20:20
interesting. depends on where folks live in ct. paramus is closer for me. but i will have to check it out the next time i am down that way. thanks for sharing.

It will be less hassle for me (I live in Bristol) to head for Campmor vs. Old Saybrook. There is just no good way to get there from here.

And Campmor is certainly a great alternative (and one I intend to use) but it doesn't address that there is a lack of retail outfitters in CT.

And if you REALLY want to have fun- try finding a non-chauvinist outfitter in CT. :mad:

Tin Man
03-22-2009, 20:22
And if you REALLY want to have fun- try finding a non-chauvinist outfitter in CT. :mad:

really? what happened? the ems in danbury is pretty friendly, have women working there, just more of an outdoor clothing store than hiker store

Tin Man
03-22-2009, 20:30
It will be less hassle for me (I live in Bristol) to head for Campmor vs. Old Saybrook. There is just no good way to get there from here.

And Campmor is certainly a great alternative (and one I intend to use) but it doesn't address that there is a lack of retail outfitters in CT.

And if you REALLY want to have fun- try finding a non-chauvinist outfitter in CT. :mad:

the one benefit of going to old saybrook is it is not much further to noank, abbott's and hot lobster rolls overlooking the mystic river. yummy :)

A-Train
03-22-2009, 20:42
It's unfortunate, but just like the good ole' fashioned music/CD stores and video rentals, the internet is killing outfitters for gear.

There is something about sizing stuff out, looking at it, feeling it and trying it on. The internet won't let you do that.

All these stores that are selling out are selling water bottles and Life is Good t-shirts to casual tourists gotta pay the bills. It's certainly not coming from the hardgoods that the techies now buy online (or make their own).

With the high rent/real estates and property taxes in CT and the internet, it's not a suprise that there aren't too many good shops in the area.

sarbar
03-22-2009, 20:47
They didn't make $450 profit. They made $450 gross margin. Subtract a few things from that like rent, utilities, fixtures, inventory costs, insurance, payroll, etc.

Wrong! When they tell you what they pay for an item they have figured base cost, indirect cost and variable cost into it. This is usually done by applying a multiplier to their base cost. The multiplier is also variable as cost of doing business changes throughout the year. Most small Mom and Pop stores probably don't get this sophistacted with their pricing, but some are very astute at maximizing profitability. Larger stores, without naming any, are very good at sticking it to the customer. Why else would a pair of hiking boots made in China for little of nothing sell in the U.S. for upwards of $200.00 ??

All specialized equipment is the same. I also deal with cost of archery equipment. Sinful when a hunting arrow cost $16.00 !!!!!

Just the way it is. Happy hiking. :sun

Pretty much everyone gets their cut along the way. The retailer is the last in the line - in many cases if the item retails for $50, they paid $25 for it wholesale - unless they are buying by the thousands or more. The only companies rolling in the savings are the few big box stores that have so much buying power they can influence the wholesale price (ie...Wal-Mart and others).

So your local small retailer is not buying a $100 item for $10, then marking it up 90%! If one truly believes that these companies are all a bunch of fat cats....they need to run a business first - after spending a long time working retail.

The only time my husband and I fight is at tax time....running a small business is a PITA when you realize how much the gov't wants 5 times a year......

fiddlehead
03-22-2009, 20:49
I have to agree with this. Over the last 35 years, my area has seen a half-dozen GOOD local retailers (often with very knowledgable salespeople) go under because folks would go in, try on stuff, pick the salesperson's brain, and then go buy elsewhere. Yes, we've all done it to some extent, but if you're going to "waste" the clerk's time and then buy NOTHING from them, then you've got to realize that, in the long run, you're only hurting yourself, because when the store closes, you'll have nowhere to go.

I have trouble getting a good fit with footwear. I'd NEVER buy from a catalogue - I have to go into a store and try on several pairs of boots and literally walk around the store for 20 minutes in each pair. After all of THAT, I don't think that I'd have the stones to walk out without buying!!!:o


Get used to paying higher prices for buying from a store then.

The "Times they are a-changin"
Just like many newspapers are going out of business for the same reason: The internet has many advantages.

No, you cannot compare 5 pairs of shoes to see which fit the best. But you can return them.
Shoes are tough. I agree. (But i still bought my last 2 pair on ebay)

You can do massive amounts of research before you buy.

YOu can shop around hundreds of different retailers and they hardly even know you did it (so they won't whine like the store owners)

Reason: Overhead! It's WAY lower.

The future is here now.
Shop where you like. but no whining.

I can't remember the last time i bought something in a store relating to hiking except for food, alcohol (fuel), hardware or : a headlamp (cause i was Christmas shopping for a Cabela's gift certificate so picked up something for myself, or i wouldn't have been in there) (and it still might have ALL been easier online)

Tin Man
03-22-2009, 20:52
Get used to paying higher prices for buying from a store then.

The "Times they are a-changin"
Just like many newspapers are going out of business for the same reason: The internet has many advantages.

No, you cannot compare 5 pairs of shoes to see which fit the best. But you can return them.
Shoes are tough. I agree. (But i still bought my last 2 pair on ebay)

You can do massive amounts of research before you buy.

YOu can shop around hundreds of different retailers and they hardly even know you did it (so they won't whine like the store owners)

Reason: Overhead! It's WAY lower.

The future is here now.
Shop where you like. but no whining.

I can't remember the last time i bought something in a store relating to hiking except for food, alcohol (fuel), hardware or : a headlamp (cause i was Christmas shopping for a Cabela's gift certificate so picked up something for myself, or i wouldn't have been in there) (and it still might have ALL been easier online)

what?? no ems is *****et?

drastic_quench
03-22-2009, 20:55
It is really easy to tell that very few on this thread have ever worked in retail. I reallly enjoy letting you try on my good clean gear, rub your sweat all over it, and then go out, leaving me with essentially an used piece while your run over to your online store. You took advantage of my "charity" in training the clerk, providing, a display and the item you "dirtied", all without cost to you. You failed to cover my cost by making a purchase, then you turn around and complain about it. Your greed is a real pain. Now you want to know why there isn't more knowledgable outlets for your pleasure. Some of you are real " pieces of work". You deserve the hassle of numerous online exchanges.
I think you're way off base, and if people merely trying on your wares are "sweating all over it" you need to turn down your air conditioning.

What you've described here is a smart shopper. This is what shopping has been about since the first marketplace thousands of years ago. The intelligent motivated consumer compares goods from a variety of sources, and chooses to buy where quality and price best intersect. Selling the same gear for more money to cover store costs is perfectly understandable, and you'll get customers from all walks, but especially people looking for the convenience of having the exact item in hand that they're purchasing. That's fine, but you are in no way owed sales from the crafty customer who's browsing.

Franco
03-22-2009, 20:59
They didn't make $450 profit. They made $450 gross margin. Subtract a few things from that like rent, utilities, fixtures, inventory costs, insurance, payroll, etc.

Wrong! When they tell you what they pay for an item they have figured base cost, indirect cost and variable cost into it

Wrong. When a salesperson tells you that they paid $550 for an item, it means that that item was invoiced to them at $550 . So the difference is gross profit not net profit. Please keep in mind that most of the retail staff I worked with never understood the difference either. Some started their own business based on your same assumption, none remained in business.
As for the mark up , as an example , I worked out one day that in the space used to display 5-6 tents in a shop nearby , the one I worked for sold over 10 million dollars (AU) worth of cameras per year(about half of the turnover) . Is it any wonder that the mark up on tents is higher than cameras ?
Franco

Egads
03-22-2009, 20:59
It is really easy to tell that very few on this thread have ever worked in retail. I really enjoy letting you try on my good clean gear, rub your sweat all over it, and then go out, leaving me with essentially an used piece while your run over to your online store. You took advantage of my "charity" in training the clerk, providing, a display and the item you "dirtied", all without cost to you. You failed to cover my cost by making a purchase, then you turn around and complain about it. Your greed is a real pain. Now you want to know why there isn't more knowledgeable outlets for your pleasure. Some of you are real " pieces of work". You deserve the hassle of numerous online exchanges.

I rarely spend my money when the prices are outrageously high. The market is trying to send you a message, drop your prices.

Tin Man
03-22-2009, 21:07
I rarely spend my money when the prices are outrageously high. The market is trying to send you a message, drop your prices.

and retail availability of hiking gear will continue to get rarer, with the possible exception of places near popular hiking trails

wrongway_08
03-22-2009, 21:18
I still say to the ones who go out and waste a stores time tryn on crap and fitting gear - knowing they are just going to go online to buy it - should drop the store a few dollars for the help they just recieved.
-
Its a shame stores cant charge a few dollars to these people. Of course without a customer being honest enough to say thats what they are doing, then the store has no way of knowing.
-
But if your okay with stealing a stores time and knowledge - then more power to your cheap ass...... Karma will get you and I hope its on a cold rainy night, when everything is soaked and that gear you saved $30.00 on by buyn off the internet, right after you screwed over the nice retailer/saleperson who spent 2 hours of his time explaining stuff and helping you fit it properly - fails you!!
-
No, I dont do retail sales. Some things are right and some are wrong, if your not man/woman enough to own up to doing the right thing - you deserve what you get.

Bearpaw
03-22-2009, 21:33
I still say to the ones who go out and waste a stores time tryn on crap and fitting gear - knowing they are just going to go online to buy it - should drop the store a few dollars for the help they just recieved.

The best way is to buy a shirt or pair of shorts or socks or a belt or some clothing item. Clothing has the highest markup of any thing in the store, yet ultimately costs most customers the least. It's a simple way to support your local outfitter with a purchase you may well need any way.

Egads
03-22-2009, 21:35
I rarely spend my money when the prices are outrageously high. The market is trying to send you a message, drop your prices.


and retail availability of hiking gear will continue to get rarer, with the possible exception of places near popular hiking trails

I shop online first and show up at the stores knowing the best online price. I try out the gear and ask the vendor to drop their price.

The sale is usually their decision.

And I have paid more than the online price because of the service and convenience of walking out the door with the gear. I have done so several times at Winton's store.

nufsaid
03-22-2009, 21:38
I go to my local shop to try stuff on - then order it online. They have corp execs/greedy owners somewhere that are trying to feed the greed with my money, so I do not feel guilty about it. Our local shop only carries brands like MSR that have a huge mark-up. I know the local shops are trying to get rich and feed their own greed - but some of the prices are not in touch with reality.
I try to look at a peice of gear in terms of labor and material - there is not that much involved in a lot of the high priced gear that is offered.



Hooty,

You should be ashamed of yourself (but I doubt you are). If you want to go into a store and look and not involve a staff person that is fine. But to take up the time of the workers when you know you are not going to buy anything isn't cool. You can ease your guilt by saying you don't like corp execs or greedy owners. But most owners are just people trying to make a living in spite of taxes and government roadblocks. If you don't like the prices, don't shop there. Go to WalMart. Nothing wrong with WalMart.

BR360
03-22-2009, 21:45
I have this to say to the OP: Caveat emptor. (That means "Buyer Beware.")

You get what you pay for. It is a hassle to buy something online, wait for it to arrive, and try it on, find it's not what you want, pay to ship it back, get another, etc. Or when it breaks, you have to ship it back (your dime) to get it repaired or replaced. Etc.

With local retailers, you've got instant hands-on, plus actual comparison with other gear, plus no wait for the gear, plus someone to go to when the gear fowls up, or you change your mind. I think all those factors are often (but not always) worth the extra price.

As for those who "shop locally, then buy online," well, there will always be jerks in this world.

I ran a small outfitter for 5 years back in the 80's [:eek: has it been that long ago?] Even in that era we had people drain our beta, then go "mail-order" from Campmor or REI (which had few retail locations except Seattle and Denver). These folks always asked too many questions, hypotheticals.

I learned to spot them, but I always took the challenge to present the value that we offered.

If they were straight up with me about what they were doing, such as thinking about a North Face bag that we sold, or a mail-ordering a Holubar bag mail-order, I'd actually help them out.

But the serial abusers, I'd just ignore.

So to the OP, to reframe your question, I'd say: Naive consumers (a joke?)

A-Train
03-22-2009, 21:52
I shop online first and show up at the stores knowing the best online price. I try out the gear and ask the vendor to drop their price.

The sale is usually their decision.

And I have paid more than the online price because of the service and convenience of walking out the door with the gear. I have done so several times at Winton's store.

That seems kinda arrogant, IMO. I used to work at a shop and occasionally people would ask for a better price. Reputable outfitters aren't open air markets. They've got staff to pay, rent, bills to the manufacturers, etc. It's nice that some companies have had the ability to price match, but because you saw something cheaper online doesn't mean that their shop turns into an episode of Lets Make a Deal.

Prices are there for a reason.

fiddlehead
03-22-2009, 22:03
I used to date a girl that worked at an outfitter. One time someone came in looking for some fingerless gloves which the outfitter didn't have. She told them to drive about 10 miles away to a competitor because she saw them there recently.
When he left, she got chewed out by the owner BIG TIME! He told her, next time she'd lose her job.

Another friend worked at REI and had just completed a thru-hike. She was caught talking a future thru-hiker out of the $200+ leather boots and into a pair of $100 trail runners. AGain, she was reprimanded for it and learned that if she wanted to keep her job, she had to start milking the customers for as much money as possible.

Sad but true.

Not saying all outfitters are like this. But it does happen more than you think.
It's a fine line between a good salesman and someone who separates you from your money.

drastic_quench
03-22-2009, 22:09
I don't know how people can take issue with haggling. Just like comparison shopping, it's as old as the hills too. Worst case, the retailer says no - it's his option. Paying retail is for the birds. Now I know lots of people don't like to haggle, and that's their choice, but if someone's got the gumption to deal - good for them. If this economy keeps up, I think more people are going to acquaint themselves with this age old money-saving practice.

The last time I was in REI I haggled the manager down on a titanium pot. It was the last in the store, the display model, and it was missing the handle. All that played into my polite haggle, and I was gladly offered a deal. Big whoop.

A-Train
03-22-2009, 22:18
I don't know how people can take issue with haggling. Just like comparison shopping, it's as old as the hills too. Worst case, the retailer says no - it's his option. Paying retail is for the birds. Now I know lots of people don't like to haggle, and that's their choice, but if someone's got the gumption to deal - good for them. If this economy keeps up, I think more people are going to acquaint themselves with this age old money-saving practice.

The last time I was in REI I haggled the manager down on a titanium pot. It was the last in the store, the display model, and it was missing the handle. All that played into my polite haggle, and I was gladly offered a deal. Big whoop.

Right. It was missing a piece and the display model, so they knew they wouldn't be able to sell it at full price, it was basically used.

I'm talking about brand new items that are fresh out of the box. Ask away if you want, you won't loose anything from it. Just don't expect the shop owner to give you the price you feel like paying is all I'm saying.

An outfitter will see in time whether the price of a product needs to be lowered. Not everything "needs" to be sold at twice the cost of buying it from the manufacturer.

Egads
03-22-2009, 22:21
That seems kinda arrogant, IMO. I used to work at a shop and occasionally people would ask for a better price. Reputable outfitters aren't open air markets. They've got staff to pay, rent, bills to the manufacturers, etc. It's nice that some companies have had the ability to price match, but because you saw something cheaper online doesn't mean that their shop turns into an episode of Lets Make a Deal.

Prices are there for a reason.


Right. It was missing a piece and the display model, so they knew they wouldn't be able to sell it at full price, it was basically used.

I'm talking about brand new items that are fresh out of the box. Ask away if you want, you won't loose anything from it. Just don't expect the shop owner to give you the price you feel like paying is all I'm saying.

An outfitter will see in time whether the price of a product needs to be lowered. Not everything "needs" to be sold at twice the cost of buying it from the manufacturer.

Two comments:

Reread the last line from my post

Ever been to Mexico?

Blue Jay
03-22-2009, 22:39
... the Outdoors isn't a HUGE market, but nonetheless I was just shocked and a little bit outraged by some 300+ dollar pairs of boots that I have looked at online for 160-180 brand spankin new!


The Outdoors is a huge market, just not for those who actually go outdoors. The vast majority of people hate to go outdoors but want very much to LOOK like they go outdoors. They are more than willing to pay a lot for this look.

buzzamania
03-22-2009, 22:41
There is a painful lack of decent outfitters in CT. PAINFUL.

Nothing like the south. . . . The nearest REI is 6 hours away from the panhandle of Florida 6 HOURS! (north of Atlanta) Then when you get there they have 3 within 30 minutes of each other??

You folks talking about greed. There's no greed. . .you watch too much CNN. If you think you can make a butane stove and package and sell it to these retailers for $15 bucks and undercut MSR and all the others then do it. Business is business. Supply and demand. Go to brunton.com and look at all their low end stoves ($40 and up). They are all back ordered. Why is that? Because they can't make em fast enough. If I am in business and I know my customers are used to paying, happy to pay, a certain price then I'm going to price it to sell and not a penny less.

I think if anything this is a great discussion/argument to make as much of your gear as possible from materials you already have or can aquire and have made to fit your needs.

A-Train
03-22-2009, 22:43
Two comments:

Reread the last line from my post

Ever been to Mexico?

Well your post is unclear. Do you ask Winton to drop his prices, or just when you don't know the owners?

I understand simple economics and supply and demand. If you re-read my post you'll see I said retailers will realize when they need to drop prices. But you marching in the day they are putting a new product on the shelf and asking for 30 bucks off is probably not gonna fly, but i'd love to hear otherwise.

All I'm saying is spend a couple years working at essentially minimum wage while your livelihood revolves on little commission and your "expertise" about the equipment and some here wouldn't be singing the same tune.

This is all I will say about this topic, and I've appreciated the different viewpoints.

p.s. No, I've never been to Mexico, but I did reach my arm under the border fence twice before starting walks to Canada :sun Adios!

Feral Bill
03-22-2009, 22:44
I used to date a girl that worked at an outfitter. One time someone came in looking for some fingerless gloves which the outfitter didn't have. She told them to drive about 10 miles away to a competitor because she saw them there recently.
When he left, she got chewed out by the owner BIG TIME! He told her, next time she'd lose her job.

Another friend worked at REI and had just completed a thru-hike. She was caught talking a future thru-hiker out of the $200+ leather boots and into a pair of $100 trail runners. AGain, she was reprimanded for it and learned that if she wanted to keep her job, she had to start milking the customers for as much money as possible.

.

On the other hand, with two major outfitters here, (REI and Mountain Gear) both regularly refer me to the other if needed.

A-Train
03-22-2009, 22:49
I used to date a girl that worked at an outfitter. One time someone came in looking for some fingerless gloves which the outfitter didn't have. She told them to drive about 10 miles away to a competitor because she saw them there recently.
When he left, she got chewed out by the owner BIG TIME! He told her, next time she'd lose her job.

Another friend worked at REI and had just completed a thru-hike. She was caught talking a future thru-hiker out of the $200+ leather boots and into a pair of $100 trail runners. AGain, she was reprimanded for it and learned that if she wanted to keep her job, she had to start milking the customers for as much money as possible.

Sad but true.

Not saying all outfitters are like this. But it does happen more than you think.
It's a fine line between a good salesman and someone who separates you from your money.

My co-workers and I routinely sent people elsewhere if we didn't have what they were looking for. Additionally I often tried to talk people out of hulking hiking boots when they needed something to go on a day hike for one occasion.

Your bosses might not appreciate making less money, but the customer appreciates being told the truth or an honest opinion, and in turn that will benefit your boss (the owner), when they continue to go back to the shop because they feel like the staff are treating them fairly and honestly.

Tin Man
03-22-2009, 22:55
the customer appreciates being told the truth or an honest opinion, and in turn that will benefit your boss (the owner), when they continue to go back to the shop because they feel like the staff are treating them fairly and honestly.

correct. it is all about the customer. the good customers will keep coming back for good service. some get it, many don't.

buzzamania
03-22-2009, 23:06
IBut if your okay with stealing a stores time and knowledge - then more power to your cheap ass...... Karma will get you and I hope its on a cold rainy night, when everything is soaked and that gear you saved $30.00 on by buyn off the internet, right after you screwed over the nice retailer/saleperson who spent 2 hours of his time explaining stuff and helping you fit it properly - fails you!!
-
No, I dont do retail sales. Some things are right and some are wrong, if your not man/woman enough to own up to doing the right thing - you deserve what you get.

Once again this is just business, these people are paid, SALES people. They are to help customers to the extent that they BUY something. If after 2 hours of SELLING you aren't guilted into a modest purchase then the SALES team failed. Window shopping is nothing new, comparison shopping is as old as business itself. Most people don't have money to drop on an overpriced retailer just because they are worried about Karma. If an item costs 30 or 40 bucks cheaper online why would you bother? I admit that I am a total noob in the world of hiking but business and selling are my thing. I have lived off of commission before and I knew that I had to get'r dun to take care of myself and fam. Market forces will continue to the change the outdoor gear industry because the "haves" will have their income redistributed to the "have nots" further driving down the obscene prices.

Wise Old Owl
03-22-2009, 23:11
I go away for a weekend and threads like this get started... and well answered. Hard for me to add 2 cents to the thread when Bearpaw and 4eyedbuzzard have already done such a good job.

Rant Away Phoenix, you are welcome and I am sure you will have some darn good ideas to add to WB, but in your own words, I am appalled you like Dick Sporting Goods over a local outfitter, although you didn't say it, you came across with your post "I'm a know it all and I don't need help and the folks at the local overpriced outfitters are dummys."

"Caves" like Dick Sporting Goods & Sport Authority refuse to pay minimum wage for people in the camping department when the bulk of their income comes from Golf, Hunting & Fish, Treadmills & Clothes. The Coleman product is expected to sell itself. Guess what, I worked in one of these caves. I would trade any day to work at REI. It wouldn't be much pay but the rewards would be great. Everyone there is a hiking, biking enthusiast with great ideas and good work ethic. :cool:

Ohh and before anyone takes this the wrong way let me put this out there, I am not a know it all, But I do have years of experience in retail & loss prevention. "Wise Old OWL" is a trail name given to me for my interests in raptors and Hawk Mountain, nothing makes my night like last night, listening to a Great Horn Owl calling out in the cold to find a mate.

Tin Man
03-22-2009, 23:13
Once again this is just business, these people are paid, SALES people. They are to help customers to the extent that they BUY something. If after 2 hours of SELLING you aren't guilted into a modest purchase then the SALES team failed. Window shopping is nothing new, comparison shopping is as old as business itself. Most people don't have money to drop on an overpriced retailer just because they are worried about Karma. If an item costs 30 or 40 bucks cheaper online why would you bother? I admit that I am a total noob in the world of hiking but business and selling are my thing. I have lived off of commission before and I knew that I had to get'r dun to take care of myself and fam. Market forces will continue to the change the outdoor gear industry because the "haves" will have their income redistributed to the "have nots" further driving down the obscene prices.

yep, everyone who has, should give... to you... cause you're special. :rolleyes:

copythat
03-22-2009, 23:28
For what it's worth, Backpacker named North Cove Outfitters of Old Sayville, CT Retailer of the Year.

it's old saybrook.

and for anyone anywhere near hartford county (or eastern litchfield county), there's Country Sports on Route 44 in Canton. (65-A Albany Turnpike.) i've had decent luck there in general, and they've been willing to special order some pretty odd stuff for me.

Franco
03-22-2009, 23:32
Where I worked we had on the floor between 15 and 40 people serving. I am pretty sure that every day one of the guys said something really stupid to a customer whilst another gained one for life. Sales people are just like us, strange that.
Here is how I purchased my favourite shoes , a pair of Garmont.
Went to see my mate across the road , the assistant manager of the largest specialist outdoor shop . I explained what I wanted (type, weight,fit) he sent me to his cousin a few doors up, his competition. This guy got me a couple of pair of shoes to try and then told me that I would be happier with the Garmont that another non related shop was selling. So I did go there and they fitted me just right. Maybe it helps that I have sent all of them customers over many years and most have purchased photo gear from me. Karma at work.
Franco

Tin Man
03-22-2009, 23:41
it's old saybrook.

and for anyone anywhere near hartford county (or eastern litchfield county), there's Country Sports on Route 44 in Canton. (65-A Albany Turnpike.) i've had decent luck there in general, and they've been willing to special order some pretty odd stuff for me.

have you been to the new cabella's? i hear it is more for hunters and fisherman than hikers... not surprising given their catalog, but i was wondering if anyone found some hiking stuff or maybe boots, i need some new ones. :)

Gear To Go Outfitter
03-22-2009, 23:47
Hey Guys, Please check out my site (www.geartogooutfitters.com (http://www.geartogooutfitters.com)). I only carry what works rather than every product under the sun. In addition to sales I also offer RENTALS. With our "try before you buy" program you can rent a piece of gear and if you like it and decide to buy it from us within 30 days, half of your rental fee is applied towards the purchase price. I offer free delivery in the NYC Metro area and ship everywhere else.

JDCool1
03-22-2009, 23:51
"I think you're way off base, and if people merely trying on your wares are "sweating all over it" you need to turn down your air conditioning." Egad

There is another free perk you expect me to provide.

I know all about shopping, but I do have a problem with the guys who take advantage of the local retailer and walk out without even purchasing a candy bar or trail food and brag about it. That show room will close someday and then they will complain because they have no place to "try it on."

Egads
03-23-2009, 06:51
JDCool1,


"I think you're way off base, and if people merely trying on your wares are "sweating all over it" you need to turn down your air conditioning." Egad."

This is not my quote. This comment came from Luxury Bullseye post #37. Don't misrepresent me.

I buy most of my gear on the internet from cottage industries because it is a better product. Gossamer Gear, Mountain Laurel Designs, ULA, Titanium Goat. You can't find UL gear at REI or Dicks.

Hooch
03-23-2009, 08:50
IMO, there is no shame in buying online at all. I buy online fairly frequently when I need gear, especially when it comes to a lot of the cottage gear I use. I do tend to use good, solid, reputable outfitters when I'm near them for one reason or another (BMO, MRO, etc.).


For what it's worth, Backpacker named North Cove Outfitters of Old Sayville, CT Retailer of the Year.Does anyone actually read that useless, advertisement-laden, give good reviews to the highest bidder piece of crap rag? That magazine stopped being useful and informative years ago.

gregugadawg
03-23-2009, 08:51
They didn't make $450 profit. They made $450 gross margin. Subtract a few things from that like rent, utilities, fixtures, inventory costs, insurance, payroll, etc.

Wrong! When they tell you what they pay for an item they have figured base cost, indirect cost and variable cost into it. This is usually done by applying a multiplier to their base cost. The multiplier is also variable as cost of doing business changes throughout the year. Most small Mom and Pop stores probably don't get this sophistacted with their pricing, but some are very astute at maximizing profitability. Larger stores, without naming any, are very good at sticking it to the customer. Why else would a pair of hiking boots made in China for little of nothing sell in the U.S. for upwards of $200.00 ??

All specialized equipment is the same. I also deal with cost of archery equipment. Sinful when a hunting arrow cost $16.00 !!!!!

Just the way it is. Happy hiking. :sun
Actually you are 100 percent wrong here and the original quoter is correct. Most every retailer is making an average of 50 percent gross margin on their products I don't care who you are. It can be the grocery store, hardware store, electronics whatever. But by the time it is all said and done your actual bottom line is typically 10-15 percent. A basic high school economics class could really benefit a lot of the people on here.

skinewmexico
03-23-2009, 10:23
Who do you guys work for that tries to minimize their profits? I'm sure all you guys b*tching about greed work for someone who expects to make a buck. Well, unless you work for the government or in education. I bet if any of you owned your own company, you'd be all about the profit! Well, I shouldn't say that, the public school system is doing a great job indoctrinating all kids in Marxism.

Anyway..........support your local outfitter, or they'll be gone, and online will be your only choice. Sometimes having someone locally with last minute gear is worth a few extra bucks.

Old Grouse
03-23-2009, 10:29
Actually, Outdoor Sports in Wilton will also special order items they don't carry. By the way, I once bought a Patagonia day pack there. The color I liked was mismarked $15 lower than the rest, and I tried to pay the full price, but they wouldn't let me! Said it was their error, and my lucky day. Of course with that attitude I've happily gone back often enough to be sure they've made up their loss.

Rainbow_Brite
03-23-2009, 11:32
I would also like to add that I work at REI, and I am encouraged to send a customer elsewhere if we don't have what they need. So for instance, when I'm outfitting at future thru-hiker, I'm totally allowed to send them elsewhere to get a lighter pack, tart-tent, etc. that's more conducive to their hike then a lot of things we carry. Our goal is to make the customer happy. Yes, we want the sale too, but not at the expense of customer satisfaction. At least that's how it works at my store.

bigcranky
03-23-2009, 12:43
I'm trying to figure out all those "really high prices."

My local outfitter -- a very small shop -- has a decent selection of gear and clothing. His regular prices are the manufacturer's list prices. Mountain Crossings at Neels Gap has a terrific selection of top-quality gear aimed directly at the long distance hiker, and service to match. Their prices are also MSRP. The REI in Greensboro has a wide selection of gear -- bikes, boats, clothing, camping, etc. Again, prices are MSRP. Online, when I check backcountry.com (and others), they have pretty much everything, and their regular prices are MSRP.

For the same piece of gear, I expect the regular prices at all four locations to be the same. When someone tells me that so-and-so shop has "really high prices," that usually means they are selling for the same MSRP as every other retail shop. In other words, it's bull.

Now it's true you can buy cheaper on line. First, you can "visit" more stores, and there's usually one place that's offering a 10 or 15 percent discount, sometimes a little more. It changes from week to week, but if you shop around you can usually find a small discount on new, current merhcandise.

The big sales are in last years' models and discontinued stuff. That's where Sierra Trading Post, Campmor, REI Outlet, and the like, get the stuff that they can offer at 50-60% off. If you can find the right model in the right size, it's possible to score a great deal. But that's generally more difficult, especially if you are a very common size. Plenty of very small-torso backpacks on 60%-off sales online -- not as good a selection of M or L sizes (I've looked.) So it's tough to compare shopping at STP to shopping at my local outfitter. It's like saying you can get a great deal on men's suits at the local consignment shop -- yeah, when they have what you want in your size -- but it's hard to find a great selection in all sizes all the time.

I shop for gear everywhere -- at my local shop, at the regional chain, at REI, and online at cottage gear makers and discount places like Campmor and STP. It depends entirely on what I want, and how much service and selection I need. I've bought some big stuff through my local guy (two Montbell bags, plenty of Icebreaker clothing, all my little supplies like fuel canisters, etc.) I have no problem going to him, asking about a specific piece of gear, finding out that he doesn't carry it, and then buying online. But to handle the gear, try it on, ask questions, and then walk out and buy the exact same thing online -- well, I couldn't do that. (Soon enough we won't have to worry about it, though, since that behavior leads to the local places closing down.)

Rocketman
03-23-2009, 12:58
All fine comments from people that have never run their own retail operation. Have a go at it and see if you do not change your mind.
Franco


In 2007, I stayed a day and a night in Franklin. I went to the local outfitter store to buy hiking poles and look for interesting things.

The sales staff were all eye candy young ladies, who evidently never backpacked. They were in no position to be able to be helpful.

I understand the need to keep costs down when operating a retail (or other) business.

However, there is a point when cost cutting kills the business from the resulting poor service and perception.

Recently, one of the few stores in my local area which carried quality backpacking and winter skiing equipment went out of business. The owner stated that part of the reason was the "customer" who would come in to shop and get the right fit, and then leave to buy it cheaper on the internet.

The greatest insult was when the "customer" would tell the shopkeeper that when leaving the store.

This store did have a policy of hiring people with experience with the items being sold.

It is really sad to think of people feeling OK with the "shop and try on local" and "buy cheap on the internet" philosophy. Evidently, you don't need to be a big banker or businessman to have a problem with personal greed.

The Phoenix
03-23-2009, 13:00
[quote=Wise Old Owl;807726]
Rant Away Phoenix, you are welcome and I am sure you will have some darn good ideas to add to WB, but in your own words, I am appalled you like Dick Sporting Goods over a local outfitter, although you didn't say it, you came across with your post "I'm a know it all and I don't need help and the folks at the local overpriced outfitters are dummys."



Well Mr Owl I had no intention to come across that way. I certainly don't know it all, in fact I joined this site to learn, because I am pretty novice when it comes to all this.

I'd prefer saving 20 bucks or so at Dick's though. I am not out to rip local outfitters, I just wanted opinions from more experienced people... and if that is appalling then I need to check myself I suppose. I meant to have nothing hidden between the lines, but I guess from where your sitting it looked like that and I cannot discredit that because I am not you and you are not me.

God Bless

The Phoenix

RockDoc
03-23-2009, 13:07
This hits close to home for me because I run a storefront retail sales/repair shop (not sporting goods, but high quality stuff, for very particular customers).We are flooded with people (sometimes it's all that happens all day) who bought cheap stuff on the web (far below the quality in my shop), then bring it to us to ask about repair. New items! I always suggest that they talk to the people they bought it from, and they look sheepish and say that's not possible. Then I spend time looking over the item to come up with an estimate for repair, which, because so many things need to be replaced, invariably is higher than their purchase price. I tell them not to do the repair, because you shouldn't "throw good money after bad." So my time is wasted, and the person leaves in a sour mood without even asking what I sell.Here's another folksy old saying: "Cheap people pay twice."If you drive the mom/pop shops out of business buying on the web, soon all you will have is the web.

SteveJ
03-23-2009, 13:57
Actually you are 100 percent wrong here and the original quoter is correct. Most every retailer is making an average of 50 percent gross margin on their products I don't care who you are. It can be the grocery store, hardware store, electronics whatever. But by the time it is all said and done your actual bottom line is typically 10-15 percent. A basic high school economics class could really benefit a lot of the people on here.

Agreed....IF the average retailer had a 50% profit margin, as Kanati seems to be implying, we'd all be in the retail business! [And, logically, we'd start competing for customers because there would be too many stores and not enough customers...and prices would drop....and some of us would go out of business because we COULDN'T make the 50% average profit margin!] :rolleyes:


I would also like to add that I work at REI, and I am encouraged to send a customer elsewhere if we don't have what they need. So for instance, when I'm outfitting at future thru-hiker, I'm totally allowed to send them elsewhere to get a lighter pack, tart-tent, etc. that's more conducive to their hike then a lot of things we carry. Our goal is to make the customer happy. Yes, we want the sale too, but not at the expense of customer satisfaction. At least that's how it works at my store.

That has been my experience wth REI. I shop at REI when I can because of their excellent customer service and excellent return policies. It also doesn't hurt that I have one about 4 miles from my house! However, I do buy many products online because REI doesn't offer the niche lightweight gear that I usually purchase. I also often buy from REI online at REI-outlet.com for last year's model, discontinued models, etc. I have purchased items shippped for free to the local store, and order multiple sizes for things that I'm not sure of the fit (clothes, boots, etc.). They allow me to immediately return the items that I don't want / don't fit.

My two experiences with Mountain Crossings have also been excellent. They had the products that I needed (3rd day on trail with my son), and happily shipped broken filter and other stuff home for a reasonable price. I have also ordered a couple of things from them online - they came quickly, and were what I thought I was ordering.....

Turtlehiker
03-23-2009, 14:27
As a CT resident I can vouche for the lack of Outfitters around here. There are 2 in my area NorthCove and Trailblazers. Trailblazers is good they carry western Mountaineering and similar top brands North Cove also carries top brands. Both stores however are very heavy into Outdoor look clothing but you can't blame them they make more money off the Soccer Moms wearing Arcterxy to the grocery stores than they do off of most backpackers.
I was in ski retail years ago and the normal markup was 100% of course back them there was no internet and the manufactures protected the outfitters by not selling to the big box type discount stores.

The Weasel
03-23-2009, 15:05
There are four kinds of "outdoor" stores.

(1) The 'big box' general sporting goods stores. Cheapest "live" stores, but almost never do you find anyone with real knowledge of backpacking. Gear tends to be lower quality and with poorest warranties.

(2) "Outdoor" chains. Examples are REI, EMS, Adventure 16, and others. Often good to very good in customer service, and staff usually includes at least 1-2 people in each department who are knowledgeable, but you have to ask experience levels in each kind of activity (backpacking, mountaineering, kayaking, etc.) Gear tends to be better quality, with better warranties (REI has lifetime on everything sold.)

(3) "One of a kind" stores. These are non-chain, often located near hiking destinations ("MRO" - Mount Rogers Outfitters) is an excellent example) and have outstanding levels of service and knowledge in almost every case. Usually your best overall choice if you can find one, since price will include generally phenomenal amounts of help in getting the right gear in advance and servicing it afterwards. Almost always the most expensive. Store warranties may not be worth much if the store isn't going to last, but gear from these stores tends to have longer/lifetime warranties.

(4) Mail Order. Almost always the best price, with or little ability to give advise on gear in advance. Some (Campmor) have outstanding customer service; others don't. Warranty info is SOMETIMES posted on the web from these stores, otherwise you have to check manfacturer sites.

Weasey

mrc237
03-23-2009, 15:12
The Outdoors is a huge market, just not for those who actually go outdoors. The vast majority of people hate to go outdoors but want very much to LOOK like they go outdoors. They are more than willing to pay a lot for this look.

Got this from Jack Tarlin: Some people wanna look "hale and outdoorsy"

mrc237
03-23-2009, 15:16
IMO, there is no shame in buying online at all. I buy online fairly frequently when I need gear, especially when it comes to a lot of the cottage gear I use. I do tend to use good, solid, reputable outfitters when I'm near them for one reason or another (BMO, MRO, etc.).

Does anyone actually read that useless, advertisement-laden, give good reviews to the highest bidder piece of crap rag? That magazine stopped being useful and informative years ago.

Much like WB

elangomat
03-23-2009, 16:03
It will be less hassle for me (I live in Bristol) to head for Campmor vs. Old Saybrook. There is just no good way to get there from here. I agree Campmor is a great place but don't tell me it's more convenient for you. I's 45 miles from Bristol to Old Saybrook (1 hr drive) and 110 miles (2 hrs driving + plus crossing the Tappan Zee Bridge).

gregugadawg
03-23-2009, 16:04
Hey Guys, Please check out my site (www.geartogooutfitters.com (http://www.geartogooutfitters.com)). I only carry what works rather than every product under the sun. In addition to sales I also offer RENTALS. With our "try before you buy" program you can rent a piece of gear and if you like it and decide to buy it from us within 30 days, half of your rental fee is applied towards the purchase price. I offer free delivery in the NYC Metro area and ship everywhere else.

I didn't know spam was allowed here

The Weasel
03-23-2009, 16:12
I agree that JDCool1 is wrong.

Outfitters - the real ones - who develop "brand loyalty" will survive just fine. How do they do that? First, they realize who their market is: It's not people who are casual backpackers, or price dogs. They're the people who are serious about the sport, just as much as cyclists, runners, swimmers or anyone else. That "market" wants knowledgeable gear sellers, and will seek them out and pay the price, which includes "service plus", i.e information about places to go, gear details, warranties, and more. Second, the retailer places her or his store where that market exists either by concentration of buyers (more affluent areas) or proximity to places (hiking trails, trail towns, etc). Lastly, they are involved in the "trail" or "outoor community", more than just selling goods, so that they are viewed as a partner by customers.

Good retailers do these things, which is why I buy from small stores - sometimes - and REI - sometimes - and Campmore - also sometimes.

Weasey

Gear To Go Outfitter
03-23-2009, 17:33
I didn't know spam was allowed here

This isn't spam. Some of you know me as Doc Holiday Inn. I'm a member of the AT Community who got tired of outfitters where the staff didn't know what they were talking about and decided to do something about it. Hopefully the community will support my efforts.

Feral Bill
03-23-2009, 18:34
have you been to the new cabella's? i hear it is more for hunters and fisherman than hikers... not surprising given their catalog, but i was wondering if anyone found some hiking stuff or maybe boots, i need some new ones. :)

You might find what you want, but you are not likely to find a helpful sales person for hiking. They are a spectacular hook and bullet store (I am wearing one of their shirts now), and worth a visit, but they are not there to help backpackers.

WritinginCT
03-23-2009, 18:50
I agree Campmor is a great place but don't tell me it's more convenient for you. I's 45 miles from Bristol to Old Saybrook (1 hr drive) and 110 miles (2 hrs driving + plus crossing the Tappan Zee Bridge).

I didn't say a shorter trip - I said less hassle. But that's just my opinion knowing exactly where I live as well as knowing the Connecticut shoreline very well (I grew up one town over from Old Saybrook). For me driving hassle isn't about distance or time but just the overall grief of getting from point a to b. I'll driver further and longer any day to avoid that.

slow
03-23-2009, 19:58
I shop both for my needs... but the little comes first,bottom line.

KMACK
03-23-2009, 20:22
My local EMS (Danbury Fair Mall) does offer 10% or 15% off (cant remember which) if you are fire, police, EMT or military personal (of which I am one). Their staff is hit or miss on the knowledge side. That said I still do most shopping on line.

Wise Old Owl
03-23-2009, 20:50
This hits close to home for me because I run a storefront retail sales/repair shop (not sporting goods, but high quality stuff, for very particular customers).We are flooded with people (sometimes it's all that happens all day) who bought cheap stuff on the web (far below the quality in my shop), then bring it to us to ask about repair. New items! I always suggest that they talk to the people they bought it from, and they look sheepish and say that's not possible. Then I spend time looking over the item to come up with an estimate for repair, which, because so many things need to be replaced, invariably is higher than their purchase price. I tell them not to do the repair, because you shouldn't "throw good money after bad." So my time is wasted, and the person leaves in a sour mood without even asking what I sell.Here's another folksy old saying: "Cheap people pay twice."If you drive the mom/pop shops out of business buying on the web, soon all you will have is the web.

The worst of the worst appears to be on the internet called Drop Shippers. People launch a well made site after paying several thousand for design & launching with credit cards, then have some manufacture / middle man in China supply the product direct based on the site. - nobody is the wiser and there is a appearence of a return door. But good luck... Other sites are lauched in America based from a ship wearhouse and the whole thing is from china.

Tin Man
03-23-2009, 21:10
My local EMS (Danbury Fair Mall) does offer 10% or 15% off (cant remember which) if you are fire, police, EMT or military personal (of which I am one). Their staff is hit or miss on the knowledge side. That said I still do most shopping on line.

Hey neighbor! I think the Danbury EMS offers 15%... at least they do for people with a scout id two weekends per year. Unfortunately, they never have camping stuff when I need it in a hurry. The Sports Authority has a few things, but mostly car camping/fisherman stuff.

saimyoji
03-23-2009, 21:58
You might find what you want, but you are not likely to find a helpful sales person for hiking. They are a spectacular hook and bullet store (I am wearing one of their shirts now), and worth a visit, but they are not there to help backpackers.

maybe in WA. but the cabelas in Hamburg is doing more and more to help hikers every year as it becomes a decent part of their business.

Gear To Go Outfitter
03-23-2009, 22:05
Hey neighbor! I think the Danbury EMS offers 15%... at least they do for people with a scout id two weekends per year. Unfortunately, they never have camping stuff when I need it in a hurry. The Sports Authority has a few things, but mostly car camping/fisherman stuff.

I offer free, next day delivery in the NYC Metro area, including Fairfield County, CT. (www.geartogooutfitters.com (http://www.geartogooutfitters.com))

Wise Old Owl
03-23-2009, 22:53
Kevin I took a gander at your site and I can see the merit & the work that went into it, as it is could you include product weights with items and possibly include Henessey Hammocks in your tent line up might an idea to consider.

Good Luck with what you are doing...

Gear To Go Outfitter
03-24-2009, 00:58
Wise, thanks for checking out the site. You should be able to find the weight of each product under "Specifications" when you select "More Info". Please let me know if I missed listing the weight for a product. I definitely plan to add Hammocks to the product line as soon as I recover a bit from having to meet every manufacturer's minimum purchase requirement and, as a new business, having to pre-pay for it all. Please check back in the coming weeks as expand our product line.

fiddlehead
03-24-2009, 03:11
maybe in WA. but the cabelas in Hamburg is doing more and more to help hikers every year as it becomes a decent part of their business.
They must be improving then.
INteresting story when we were getting ready for a Nepal trip about 4 years ago and right after they opened the big store in Hamburg:
My friend and I went in there in hopes of finding some really good quality snow gaitors for the Himalayas.
We couldn't find any gaitors so asked a guy in the camping department.
He said: The fishing dept is downstairs. We have waders there of all kinds.
We said: We want gaitors, not waders.
He repeated that they had different choices of waders.
We repeated we were looking for gaitors. Apparantly, he didn't have a clue what we were talking about. My buddy with 4 thru-hikes under his belt then said: Let's get the **** out of here!

Like i said, i have been back but it wasn't easy. You have to walk past about 3,000 guns and $200 cotton shirts to get to the camping dept, as i was looking for a Petzl headlamp (which they had), but i had to wait because the salesperson waited on 2 people that came up after me that were wearing total camo outfits. I was dressed wrong for sure for that experience.

Wear your best Camo if you go there. You'll get lots more respect.

fiddlehead
03-24-2009, 03:14
Sorry, Gaiters (above) not gaitors
I didn't proofread (once again)

gregugadawg
03-24-2009, 10:13
I offer free, next day delivery in the NYC Metro area, including Fairfield County, CT. (www.geartogooutfitters.com (http://www.geartogooutfitters.com))
Wow repeated spam, what is this site coming too. I guess we should all post the link to our businesses on here to drum up some sales.

Tin Man
03-24-2009, 10:19
Wow repeated spam, what is this site coming too. I guess we should all post the link to our businesses on here to drum up some sales.

http://www.redneckriot.com/

Old Grouse
03-24-2009, 12:15
Oh, my... and this thread started off so well.

Gear To Go Outfitter
03-24-2009, 12:37
Wow repeated spam, what is this site coming too. I guess we should all post the link to our businesses on here to drum up some sales.

Again, my posts are not spam. This is a thread about outfitters and the frustration members of the AT Community have experienced in dealing with them. I am a member of this community and have shared in the frustration expressed in many of the posts in this thread. I am letting people know that I offer an alternative. If you have a related business that you want to discuss, go ahead, I think everyone will welcome the opportunity to learn what resources are available to them.

DBT fan
03-25-2009, 00:00
Well, I shouldn't say that, the public school system is doing a great job indoctrinating all kids in Marxism.

Pardon me if this comment is off topic but you said mouthful there. What passes for "history" now days in the public schools is a total disgrace.

Anyways, please support local folks first when you are able.

Kanati
03-26-2009, 15:01
Really great discussion and everyone is correct because in a capitalist economy everyone in business has a shot at making it. I love America!!


But here's my question:

As my mothers POA, I purchase her medication. She is 85 and lives in an assisted living facility. She has dimentia and takes aricept as well as seroquel of which there are no generics in the U.S.. If I purchase her medication from a US manufacturer, her out of pocket expense, on average over 12 months, after medicare and her insurance supplement pays their part, runs about $15.00 per day at our local or Wal-Mart pharmacies. I can purchase generic equalivents on-line thru a Canadian pharmacy for about $3.00 per day. In view of our discussion, which does the audience think I should do, support our local economy or buy on-line?

Personally, I believe in supporting our local economy whenever it makes sense and always try to buy something from any store I shop in because I know their time is valuable. It may only be a $10.00 item when I'm actually shopping for a sleeping bag, but I do at least spend some money with them. Likewise, when I stop and use the restroom of any business along the interstate highway, I purchase something, if only a Snickers and coffee before leaving. I suggest you do the same.

Happy hiking. :sun

kanga
03-26-2009, 15:05
Some thimg tells me that you havent been living in CT for very long. Turn on the computer, point, click and ship.


i agree...i shop almost exclusively online...shipping is usually cheaper than the cost of gas and tax! :)


There is no substitute for being able to touch and feel when it comes to items where proper fit is imperative. Buying those items online is a crap shoot and you will either end up getting something that doesn't fit properly, or end up spending a whole lot of money and time shipping stuff back and forth. But the internet is definitely the way to go for supplies where "fit" is not an issue.

My advice is find an outfitter out where the action is. And ask plenty of questions to find out whether you are dealing with a wannabe or the real deal.

find a middle ground. go to the outfitters and try things out to find out firsthand what you like. get the well-priced stuff there (support your local outfitters) and then go online and do a search for the more expensive items and buy them on sale (save money). best of both worlds.

Blissful
03-26-2009, 15:09
find a middle ground. go to the outfitters and try things out to find out firsthand what you like. get the well-priced stuff there (support your local outfitters) and then go online and do a search for the more expensive items and buy them on sale (save money). best of both worlds.


Yes,we do both. We like to support Rockfish Gap Outfitters (great place, BTW) but I got my Montbell sleeping bag just recently from Backcountry.com because they had the brand I wanted and did a price match too for me. They are a great company.

kanga
03-26-2009, 15:11
i love backcountry! super service.

Pootz
03-26-2009, 15:30
The staff of Backcountry Outfitters in Kent was very friendly and helpful when I went through there in 07. Very nice store.

You have to remember that Connecticut is one of the most expensive places in the US for everything, including property to build an outfitter so things are going to cost more.

I say support your local outfitter and other stores. Some things are going to cost more but that is the price you pay for face to face service, helpful advice and getting to try things out before you buy. Do we really want a world of online ordering and Wal-Mart.