View Full Version : Tarps or tent??
The Phoenix
03-22-2009, 15:14
I've spent 7 weeks in the woods at one time using tarps and I really enjoyed the experience and lack of hassle... I had a buddy who woke up with 3 copperheads (no lie) in his shelter... which really doesn't bother me all too much I personal enjoy snakes... but the con that I saw in the tarps were when it poured for hours and hours it wasn't too enjoyable...
which a tent is usually better for... I think. A tent gives a nice feeling of security, but it can be a burden to set up after a tough hike, or in the rain... etc etc...
I think all in all tarps are lighter too... any thoughts?
(A big dilemma I have is I have a two person tent and it was a gift for me... would it be a terrible idea to take that with me (saving 120-160 bucks)... but carrying that extra weigh??)
I'm grateful for all the advice and opinions
God Bless
The Phoenix
Feral Bill
03-22-2009, 17:05
Tents keep off bugs (and, I guess snakes), no other advantage in summer. Tents are not totally rainproof either. This (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=88643&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1) is pretty cheap and light. needs a ground cloth.
SGT Rock
03-22-2009, 17:07
Go with what you are comfortable with. I like tarps. I find no disadvantage when it rains because I have a much larger area under my tarp than I would with a tent - and with my hammock I sit above the ground so no wet ground and no snakes to wake up with.
garlic08
03-22-2009, 17:54
You can always compromise and use a tarptent. Heavier than a tarp but with netting, ventilation options, you can get a sewn-in floor, some have a vestibule. But they're more expensive, more like $200 new. www.tarptent.com (http://www.tarptent.com)
LIhikers
03-22-2009, 22:16
yup.
Tarptent.com is your answer
Jim Adams
03-23-2009, 16:09
keep your tarp. You'll be happier.
geek
Bootstrap
03-23-2009, 16:40
I am working on moving from a heavy tent to something lighter, and I've been sleeping in my backyard lab. Here are my current conclusions:
Tarp: Much roomier, lighter, many ways to set up. No barrier to bugs. Make sure you seam-seal any seams. Practice in your yard. Condensation occurs, but you have enough room that you don't have to touch anything, and the condensation drains harmlessly in the setups I use.
Tarptent: Much less room than a tarp, lightweight (but heavier than a tarp). Bug-tight and water-tight (once seam-sealed). Very nice design. Much better ventilation than most single walled tents. Condensation occurs, there's enough ventilation to ameliorate it, but condensation is the biggest downside, and you will sometimes want to wipe it down. Getting a bigger tarptent may be helpful so you don't touch the inside as often.
Double wall tent: Bug tight like a tarptent, heavier than a tarptent, 3-4 times heavier than a tarp. Less room than a tarp. Condensation occurs, but there's a layer between you and the condensation. Makes some people feel more secure.
Single wall tent: Haven't seen what advantage these have over 1-3. Someone here probably groks single wall tents better than I do. Most of the reasons people get single-wall tents would make me want a tarptent.
Jonathan
Turtlehiker
03-23-2009, 18:37
I think a you need to decide if you are going to sleep in shelters when they are availible. Personally I would hate to carry a tent (which I don't) for a long hike and find I only used it 10% of the time. Traditionally when do my section hikes I am not with the thru hiker mob so shelters are open, although I have gotten to some and not wanted to deal with the people there in that case I whip out the tarp that weighs 9oz and camp where I want. I use a ultralight bivy with the tarp, but I use that in the shelters to so I didn't count it in my shelter weight.
The Phoenix
03-23-2009, 19:17
Where can I find a solid tarp that is on the larger side
Where can I find a solid tarp that is on the larger side
MLD.. has what you want.:)
Hammock...check out Hammockforums.net
Is 11'x10' large enough? http://www.jacksrbetter.com/11%20x%2010%20Cat%20Tarp.htm
Tipi Walter
03-23-2009, 22:11
You can always compromise and use a tarptent. Heavier than a tarp but with netting, ventilation options, you can get a sewn-in floor, some have a vestibule. But they're more expensive, more like $200 new. www.tarptent.com (http://www.tarptent.com)
yup.
Tarptent.com is your answer
I would do some research before getting too enthralled with the Tarptents. Here are some random reviews from different sites such as BackpackGearTest and BackpackingLight:
Steve Nelson: "Wind will definitely whistle thru the shelter, and therefore it's not as warm as traditional tents."
Graham Blamey/Cloudburst: "As I brushed against the roof and the beak I began to get damp on my head and shoulders so it was better to keep low and scramble out rather than crouch."
SECOND QUOTE: "I have noticed that if the night has been wet or there's been a heavy dew, the silnylon sags quite a bit, no matter how tautly I've pitched it the night before. This has meant that if it's also gusting a bit the tent billows about quite a lot."
Edward Ripley-Duggan/Double Rainbow: "I did experience some spray within the tent. I believe that this was condensation being drummed off the walls by heavy rain."
SECOND QUOTE: "My only significant concern is that the corner sleeves, designed for holding hiking poles in place when pitching the tent free-standing, did not hold up at all well."
THIRD QUOTE: "I have found that the Tarptent Double Rainbow liner is a useful addition, and I try to remember to carry it whenever I anticipate I might run into heavy rain. Though it's not essential, it certainly does minimize the effect of any splattering of condensation."
Jamie DeBenedetto/Rainbow: "One area of concern is the location of the little hook-and-loop strips used to roll away the front beak flaps. I have had problems with the flap unrolling a bit and slipping out of the fastener."
SECOND QUOTE: "I had a fairly brisk leak in the corner just in front of the spot where the cross strut and the rear beak meet. I took a closer look at the seam where the silnylon meets the cross strut sleeve and discovered four tiny holes."
THIRD QUOTE: "Just after dinner the storm rolled in . . . For the next five hours the thing parked on top of us, raining nearly the whole time. My son loved it, unfortunately the Rainbow did not fair as well as I had hoped. The spot along the cross strut where I found the four small holes continued to leak despite my attempts at sealing it at home. About three hours into the storm a few more problems appeared. First, I felt a fine mist breaking through the fabric every so often and then I noticed a minor leak dripping from the little black tab under the rear ventilation beak. What it looks like is water is entering the mesh under the back beak and seeping down the hook-and-loop strip then dripping in via the tab. Sealing didn't really do much to prevent this . . ."
FOURTH QUOTE: "My experiences regarding ventilation in the Rainbow have been somewhat mixed."
Ken Bennett/Rainshadow: "Like any tarp, the Rainshadow requires careful site selection for best performance. I try to avoid well-used, hard-packed campsite, or else rain can run right through the middle of the tent."
Raymond Estrella/Squall 2: "I turned on my head lamp to find the walls of the Squall almost touching me everywhere. The rain had turned to snow and was stretching the silnylon out quite severely. I started banging off the snow and was treated to a rain shower inside my tent! I got water all over the place." ". . . I will not take it on any trip that I even think will get snow."
Andy Goodell/Double Rainbow: "The sides do not go quite all the way to the ground--this is not a problem for rain protection since it goes beyond the floor, but wind comes through. It would be fine for summer as a vent but not great in colder conditions."
Eric Blumensaadt/Contrail: "The one weakness of the Contrail is its need for more stability in high winds."
Everett Kunitz/Contrail: "In very high winds I was forced on a few occasions to physically hold down the sides of the tent from the inside, even when pitched right to the ground."
Albert K./Contrail: "It wasn't meant to be a mountaineering tent and I won't be taking the Contrail on any trips where I'll be sleeping in unsheltered sites with high winds."
Daniel Schmidt/Squall: "I got pummeled in the lagunas on the PCT in the Squall in April. The wind ate it up and it offered no protection from freezing wind and blowing sleet. It was pitched correctly and very taut. Granted the winds were in excess of 50 mph. However, I carry a shelter so that when I REALLY need it, it works. This is NOT a three season shelter in my experience. Great for summer when you hardly need a shelter anyway. LOTS of condensation too and you cannot sit up in it. Have since switched to a Black Diamond Firstlight and have never looked back."
I like to hammock. Never a wet floor and things would have to work to crawl up into it. I don't have to get onto all fours (in the mud sometimes) to get into it, either, and when I get up, I swing my legs over, unzip the bug netting (in summer) and stand up - nice.
Tipi Walter
Brilliant piece if you are highlighting your total lack of logic, as usual.
Read carefully those "complaints" and tell me where a tarp would do better ?
Correct seam sealing and pitching is paramount, just like any high performance item, Tarptents need some knowledge and practice to be used correctly.
Ever wonder why new drivers crash high performance cars ?
As a matter of fact the last time I went out with the Contrail I pitch that right in the wind and my mate after pitching his high tech spinnaker tarp (GG) went inside the hut to spend the night. I later had to take the tarp down because the guys in nearby tents were complaining about the noise.
Several times camping with another mate that uses a tarp (a BPL Nano Cuben version) I woke up with a dry contrail with him having the tarp dripping on his bivvy (from his breath)
Your cut and paste comments are as relevant as the ones about Hilleberg tents not performing in hot weather. Yes we know that just like we know that Tarptents (except for the Scarp) are not designed to work in winter or at high altitude. Come to think of it I don't remember seeing tarps in Nepal either.
Using your logic (blame the tool) , no one will buy this Hilleberg Nallo on sale now on E Bay.( gee, I would like to read a review of the tent from that guy)
Franco
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Nallonot.jpg
Tipi Walter
Not for you but for other readers I will explain why your post not only is misleading but dishonest.
Lets have a look at the various comments :
Graham Blamey/Cloudburst: "As I brushed against the roof and the beak I began to get damp on my head and shoulders so it was better to keep low and scramble out rather than crouch." </b>
So if you brush against a wet Hex you don't get wet ? ( and yes tipis do get condensation too...)
<b>SECOND QUOTE: "I have noticed that if the night has been wet or there's been a heavy dew, the silnylon sags quite a bit, no matter how tautly I've pitched it the night before. This has meant that if it's also gusting a bit the tent billows about quite a lot."</b>
All silnylon tents/tarps behave like that. However many manufacturers use it because the upside (strength for waight) more than compensate for that for most users.
BTW if you use shockcords you eliminate the problem. But just for the record I have used my Tarptents in all sorts of weather (except for any snow apart from an inch or so) and still wake up with a very taut set up. Could be that I set it correctly before I go to sleep.
<b>Edward Ripley-Duggan/Double Rainbow: "I did experience some spray within the tent. I believe that this was condensation being drummed off the walls by heavy rain."</b>
Not restricted to Tarptents. Condensation happens inside a double wall as it happens inside a pyramid shelter.
<b>SECOND QUOTE: "My only significant concern is that the corner sleeves, designed for holding hiking poles in place when pitching the tent free-standing, did not hold up at all well."</b>
Note "only significant" . Can't wait for Tipi to tell me what the perfect shelter is.
<b>THIRD QUOTE: "I have found that the Tarptent Double Rainbow liner is a useful addition, and I try to remember to carry it whenever I anticipate I might run into heavy rain. Though it's not essential, it certainly does minimize the effect of any splattering of condensation."</b>
So is this a posutive or a negative ?
<b>Jamie DeBenedetto/Rainbow: "One area of concern is the location of the little hook-and-loop strips used to roll away the front beak flaps. I have had problems with the flap unrolling a bit and slipping out of the fastener."</b>
Yes, I have a shirt that has slightly small button holes, somehow I survived the experience.
<b>SECOND QUOTE: "I had a fairly brisk leak in the corner just in front of the spot where the cross strut and the rear beak meet. I took a closer look at the seam where the silnylon meets the cross strut sleeve and discovered four tiny holes."</b>
Yes, first tent ever that has four tiny holes in it. If you take a picture and magnify it they become larger.
<b>THIRD QUOTE: "Just after dinner the storm rolled in . . . For the next five hours the thing parked on top of us, raining nearly the whole time. My son loved it, unfortunately the Rainbow did not fair as well as I had hoped. The spot along the cross strut where I found the four small holes continued to leak despite my attempts at sealing it at home. About three hours into the storm a few more problems appeared. First, I felt a fine mist breaking through the fabric every so often and then I noticed a minor leak dripping from the little black tab under the rear ventilation beak. What it looks like is water is entering the mesh under the back beak and seeping down the hook-and-loop strip then dripping in via the tab. Sealing didn't really do much to prevent this . . ."</b>
Again those tiny holes, maybe he did not sealed correctly ? We have done the mist bit but the "leak dripping" was an early production problem (only happened on very rear situations) that was fixed pretty quickly.
<b>FOURTH QUOTE: "My experiences regarding ventilation in the Rainbow have been somewhat mixed."</b>
Yes to some is too draughty to others it does not vent enough. Is anyone right or wrong here ? ( what is the correct office temperature for EVERYBODY ?)
<b>Ken Bennett/Rainshadow: "Like any tarp, the Rainshadow requires careful site selection for best performance. I try to avoid well-used, hard-packed campsite, or else rain can run right through the middle of the tent."</b>
Yes, LIKE ANY TARP. I could argue that point but according to Ken it's like ANY TARP
<b>Raymond Estrella/Squall 2: "I turned on my head lamp to find the walls of the Squall almost touching me everywhere. The rain had turned to snow and was stretching the silnylon out quite severely. I started banging off the snow and was treated to a rain shower inside my tent! I got water all over the place." ". . . I will not take it on any trip that I even think will get snow."</b>
Well I had a layer of ice inside my Rainbow. Matter of fact I thought that it kept me warm. BTW, Tarptents arte not made for the snow...(except for the Scarp)
<b>Andy Goodell/Double Rainbow: "The sides do not go quite all the way to the ground--this is not a problem for rain protection since it goes beyond the floor, but wind comes through. It would be fine for summer as a vent but not great in colder conditions."</b>
Too much ventilation here but too much condensation for others. That is a mistery. I am now investigating why some wear cotton shirts and others down jackets.
<b>Eric Blumensaadt/Contrail: "The one weakness of the Contrail is its need for more stability in high winds."</b>
Well Eric knows now how to make his Contrail a lot more stable. Not that hard really.
<b>Everett Kunitz/Contrail: "In very high winds I was forced on a few occasions to physically hold down the sides of the tent from the inside, even when pitched right to the ground."</b>
Again see the Eric comment, or look up my Contrail in the wind shots.
<b>Albert K./Contrail: "It wasn't meant to be a mountaineering tent and I won't be taking the Contrail on any trips where I'll be sleeping in unsheltered sites with high winds."</b>
Yes, he is correct. It wasn't meant to be a mountaineering tent. What a let down from a 22oz shelter.
And here is why I stated <b>"dishonest"</b>
Quoting out of context is not just measliding but distorting the facts and somebodyelses oppinions for personal gain. I do not know what Tipi's agenda is apart for trying to prove that anyone not using his "ideal for my winter outings" gear , is not using the right gear ( as with the why by a Neo when only my 4 lbs mat keeps me warm saga)
<b>Edward_Ripley Duggan </b>
Conclusion :
I have every intention of continuing to use this as my primary shelter, in all but the months of true winter, or when I want an ultralight pack weight or a low pack volume.
<b>Graham Blamey </b>
Conclusion
All-in-all, I'm really pleased with the Cloudburst's performance. I've slept in it comfortably and not needed to get out in the night on any occasions to adjust stake lines or re-pitch the tent. I would class the Cloudburst most definitely as a single skin tent and for me, it bridges the gap between out-and-out tarps and fully enclosed double-skinned tents. I'm looking forward to using it through the summer and into late autumn. For me, I feel it will be a 3+ season shelter.
<b>Jamie De Benedetto</b>
Conclusion
In all I enjoyed this product and I appreciate the opportunity to be part of the test team.
<b>Ray Estrella</b>
I have come to a few conclusions about my Tarptent. I am not concerned about using it in wet weather. It handled the rain with aplomb. I will not take it on any trip that I even think will get snow. I could tell by the build-up of snow collecting around the sides of the tent as I knocked it from the body that it would be easy to get enough snow to block the venting capabilities of the design. (Remember that this is NOT positioned as a winter tent. I am not knocking it.) When I would pack it up I would look back and see a 3-sided rectangle of snow where it was sitting.
I would also like to mention that Henry Shires, the owner of Tarptent, is the most helpful and approachable person I have ever dealt with. I have purchased a Rainshadow and Contrail from him too.
The following are all about the Contrail.
<b>Andy Goodell</b>
Rating 5/5
<b>Eric Blumensaadt/Contrail</b>
Rating 5/5
<b>Everet Kunits</b>
Rating 4/5
<b>Albert K</b>
Rating 5/5
BTWat BPL the Contrail has an avarage rating of 4.73 out of 5 from 22 reviews. Most of those guys have several shelters (IE this is not the only shelter they know)
Franco
Sorry, I forgot about this :
Daniel Schmidt/Squall: "I got pummeled in the lagunas on the PCT in the Squall in April. The wind ate it up and it offered no protection from freezing wind and blowing sleet. It was pitched correctly and very taut. Granted the winds were in excess of 50 mph. However, I carry a shelter so that when I REALLY need it, it works. This is NOT a three season shelter in my experience. Great for summer when you hardly need a shelter anyway. LOTS of condensation too and you cannot sit up in it. Have since switched to a Black Diamond Firstlight and have never looked back."
Well again a tarp would have not been better (IMHO) in those conditions.
I hope that Daniel is happy with the Firstlight but sooner or later it will rain hard enough on him to realise that Epic is less waterproof than 1.3 oz silnylon. ( I have the Lighthouse)
My review on the Lighthouse could have this line in it "every time it has rained on it for more than a few hours, the fabric wets out and it starts to drip inside. This is not a 3 season tent!" and that would be true, however I knew that when I bough it . (I tested the white prototype when it first arrived here in Australia)
Franco
Apologies for my confusion about the use of bold....
Tipi Walter
03-24-2009, 07:15
Tipi Walter
Brilliant piece if you are highlighting your total lack of logic, as usual.
Read carefully those "complaints" and tell me where a tarp would do better ?
Correct seam sealing and pitching is paramount, just like any high performance item, Tarptents need some knowledge and practice to be used correctly.
Ever wonder why new drivers crash high performance cars ?
As a matter of fact the last time I went out with the Contrail I pitch that right in the wind and my mate after pitching his high tech spinnaker tarp (GG) went inside the hut to spend the night. I later had to take the tarp down because the guys in nearby tents were complaining about the noise.
Several times camping with another mate that uses a tarp (a BPL Nano Cuben version) I woke up with a dry contrail with him having the tarp dripping on his bivvy (from his breath)
Your cut and paste comments are as relevant as the ones about Hilleberg tents not performing in hot weather. Yes we know that just like we know that Tarptents (except for the Scarp) are not designed to work in winter or at high altitude. Come to think of it I don't remember seeing tarps in Nepal either.
Using your logic (blame the tool) , no one will buy this Hilleberg Nallo on sale now on E Bay.( gee, I would like to read a review of the tent from that guy)
Franco
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Nallonot.jpg
The only reason I brought all this up was because of LIhikers quote, "Tarptent.com is your answer." Well, maybe it's not the answer. As far as the Hillebergs, if you read any of my TJs you know I have some pretty harsh things to say about them. No tent is perfect. Many glowing tent reviews come from backpackers after a weekend trip, but use those tents for 365 days in four seasons and, like you said, negatives will arise as there is no perfect tent.
When someone mentions or recommends a tent, I feel every effort should be made to point out the negatives of that shelter or shelter system. Otherwise, people don't get an honest appraisal. Problem is, most tents that are reviewed don't get enough testing in all conditions for long periods of time. Show me someone who uses a shelter in all conditions for years and I bet that person will have several criticisms of the thing along with the good points. In fact, you had this to say of the Contrail on BackpackingLight: "Ventilation is the key to low condensation. It also means that(as with any non breathable single skin shelter)it is not a good choice for below freezing conditions."
Taken out of context? Perhaps, but the quote "not a good choice for below freezing conditions" stands by itself. And let's face it, thousands of backpackers go out in the winter and in below freezing conditions. So, if someone recommends a Tarptent, shouldn't they do so with this caveat clearly stated?
you 2 sound like you need to get laid. tbh
OP i'd say go for it, carrying the 2 person tent you already own. you already own it, so if it works for you then it works for you. plain and simple. while out there make some mental notes about what you like and dislike, then maybe check out some other options after you try that one. don't let people talk you out of your tent b/c it doesn't fit some imaginary "backpacking standard". honestly i think some of these gram weenies don't actually do any hiking, and just buy light gear for the sake of saying they own it. that said, lower pack weight is nicer on the body
Tipi Walter
"Show me someone who uses a shelter in all conditions for years and I bet that person will have several criticisms of the thing along with the good points."
I could not agree with you more with that comment, but that is the problem. As I pointed out to you in the Thermarest Neo Air , there is such a thing as "horses for courses", or the right tool for the job, you kept insisting there that only you 4lbs mat is worth using and no lightweight version is worth a damn.
Neither Garlic nor LIhikers have stated or implied that a Tarptent is the best shelter for any condition, they, unlike you, were simply replying to the OP question.
Now to turn it into a "not the ideal shelter for every condition" is to build another straw man as you did in the other thread.
What you have done here is to completely distort the view of 8 out of the 9 persons you quoted by selecting the only negative points you could find and omitting that those 8 reviewers, (some of which are known to me and certainly have a lot of experience with tents) , are either happy or very happy with their Tarptent.
That quote of mine "Ventilation is the key to low condensation. It also means that (as with any non breathable single skin shelter) it is not a good choice for below freezing conditions." should clearly indicate that I am aware that some shelters perform better than others in certain conditions. (For your info I have at the moment 11 shelters).
In fact here is another quote from my Contrail review at BPL "My rating is based on what this shelter was designed for, and not to be understood as part of the "best tent ever, for anybody ,anywhere" award."
That I posted on the 11/07/07.
Most people understand that comments like "great/works well/best of" are not absolutes , they are meant to be taken within context, like for like. Specifically I happen to think that for 22oz the Contrail is a great shelter, yet you will never see me suggesting that to mountain climbers, expeditionists, winter hikers, hammokers, people that are after a double wall tent, people that specifically ask for tarps (but I do if they mention a tarp/bugnet combo) or a pyramid shaped shelter for that matter.
My preference is to share info on what works rather than have a go at folk that use something I don't like.
If you had stated that there are con/against points about Tarptents ( and really a lot of those comments apply to all tarp tents) but nevertheless those people you quoted were happy with their purchase, that would have been good information. The way you presented your version is deliberatelly dishonest .
Franco
Bootstrap
03-24-2009, 16:47
I don't have a single wall tent, I have tarps, a double wall tent, and a hamock. But what advantages would a single wall tent have over the tarptent, and why?
To me, a tarptent is essentially a lightweight single wall silnylon tent with particularly good ventilation. I'd expect other single wall tents to have similar levels of condensation when the dewpoint hits, no?
I don't want to be out in a heavy snow storm in a tarp tent. My double wall tent would be worth the extra weight for that. But anything made out of one layer of silnylon isn't gonna be my favorite snow shelter ...
Jonathan
I would do some research before getting too enthralled with the Tarptents. Here are some random reviews from different sites such as BackpackGearTest and BackpackingLight:
Steve Nelson: "Wind will definitely whistle thru the shelter, and therefore it's not as warm as traditional tents."
Graham Blamey/Cloudburst: "As I brushed against the roof and the beak I began to get damp on my head and shoulders so it was better to keep low and scramble out rather than crouch."
SECOND QUOTE: "I have noticed that if the night has been wet or there's been a heavy dew, the silnylon sags quite a bit, no matter how tautly I've pitched it the night before. This has meant that if it's also gusting a bit the tent billows about quite a lot."
Edward Ripley-Duggan/Double Rainbow: "I did experience some spray within the tent. I believe that this was condensation being drummed off the walls by heavy rain."
SECOND QUOTE: "My only significant concern is that the corner sleeves, designed for holding hiking poles in place when pitching the tent free-standing, did not hold up at all well."
THIRD QUOTE: "I have found that the Tarptent Double Rainbow liner is a useful addition, and I try to remember to carry it whenever I anticipate I might run into heavy rain. Though it's not essential, it certainly does minimize the effect of any splattering of condensation."
Jamie DeBenedetto/Rainbow: "One area of concern is the location of the little hook-and-loop strips used to roll away the front beak flaps. I have had problems with the flap unrolling a bit and slipping out of the fastener."
SECOND QUOTE: "I had a fairly brisk leak in the corner just in front of the spot where the cross strut and the rear beak meet. I took a closer look at the seam where the silnylon meets the cross strut sleeve and discovered four tiny holes."
THIRD QUOTE: "Just after dinner the storm rolled in . . . For the next five hours the thing parked on top of us, raining nearly the whole time. My son loved it, unfortunately the Rainbow did not fair as well as I had hoped. The spot along the cross strut where I found the four small holes continued to leak despite my attempts at sealing it at home. About three hours into the storm a few more problems appeared. First, I felt a fine mist breaking through the fabric every so often and then I noticed a minor leak dripping from the little black tab under the rear ventilation beak. What it looks like is water is entering the mesh under the back beak and seeping down the hook-and-loop strip then dripping in via the tab. Sealing didn't really do much to prevent this . . ."
FOURTH QUOTE: "My experiences regarding ventilation in the Rainbow have been somewhat mixed."
Ken Bennett/Rainshadow: "Like any tarp, the Rainshadow requires careful site selection for best performance. I try to avoid well-used, hard-packed campsite, or else rain can run right through the middle of the tent."
Raymond Estrella/Squall 2: "I turned on my head lamp to find the walls of the Squall almost touching me everywhere. The rain had turned to snow and was stretching the silnylon out quite severely. I started banging off the snow and was treated to a rain shower inside my tent! I got water all over the place." ". . . I will not take it on any trip that I even think will get snow."
Andy Goodell/Double Rainbow: "The sides do not go quite all the way to the ground--this is not a problem for rain protection since it goes beyond the floor, but wind comes through. It would be fine for summer as a vent but not great in colder conditions."
Eric Blumensaadt/Contrail: "The one weakness of the Contrail is its need for more stability in high winds."
Everett Kunitz/Contrail: "In very high winds I was forced on a few occasions to physically hold down the sides of the tent from the inside, even when pitched right to the ground."
Albert K./Contrail: "It wasn't meant to be a mountaineering tent and I won't be taking the Contrail on any trips where I'll be sleeping in unsheltered sites with high winds."
Daniel Schmidt/Squall: "I got pummeled in the lagunas on the PCT in the Squall in April. The wind ate it up and it offered no protection from freezing wind and blowing sleet. It was pitched correctly and very taut. Granted the winds were in excess of 50 mph. However, I carry a shelter so that when I REALLY need it, it works. This is NOT a three season shelter in my experience. Great for summer when you hardly need a shelter anyway. LOTS of condensation too and you cannot sit up in it. Have since switched to a Black Diamond Firstlight and have never looked back."
Tipi,i like ul...but i like the way you see things.:)
Sirclimbsalot
03-26-2009, 14:56
Frankly, I do not think anyone here can give YOU the right answer. Backpack as much as you can with various shelters and form your own opinions. Compared to 10-15 years ago, it's much easier to buy shelters, try them out, and then sell them on the internet with minimal loss - maybe even less than renting them. You may find that you need several shelters in the gear closet. I love to use a tarp in the yosemite backcountry, but I would not bring one on a shoulder season hike in the presidential range....
Raymond Estrella/Squall 2: "I turned on my head lamp to find the walls of the Squall almost touching me everywhere. The rain had turned to snow and was stretching the silnylon out quite severely. I started banging off the snow and was treated to a rain shower inside my tent! I got water all over the place." ". . . I will not take it on any trip that I even think will get snow."
Hi Walter,
You would do a better service to people to post a link to a review and let them read the entire thing so they can take away what they want, not what you are trying to manipulate by using snips. Here it is for anyone that would care to read it;
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Shelters/Tarps%20and%20Bivys/Tarptent%20Squall%202/Owner%20Review%20by%20Ray%20Estrella/ (http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Shelters/Tarps%20and%20Bivys/Tarptent%20Squall%202/Owner%20Review%20by%20Ray%20Estrella/)
That incident was something that I never thought would happen. We were caught by two separate freak storms that had not been forecast. Had I been in my Seedhouse SL2 I would have been rained on too if I needed to shake snow off the sides. The Squall was stretching because of the combination of the wetness, the temperature and the weight of the snow.
I still have that Squall 2. I have had some of my best trips with that little tent. And I am selling my Mutha Hubba that I use with my twins to buy the new TT Hogback when it comes out to use with them instead. I plan on buying the new TT Scarp 2 before next winter. Not the actions of a man that is steering folks away from Tarptents.
But thanks for reading my reviews.
Ray
hopefulhiker
03-26-2009, 19:39
I had one bad experience with a tarptent my second night out when I pitched beside a stream that flooded overnight. I woke up floating on my airmattress! But for the rest of the thru hike it performed wonderfully after I knew what I was doing! I think that the tarptent is easier to set up than a tarp, and when you add the bug netting and the ground cloth, it is comparable in weight.
Also as for carrying a two man double walled tent on a thru hike... it might be more enjoyable if you didn't. I would carry something lighter for a shelter.
Bootstrap
03-26-2009, 20:31
I think that the tarptent is easier to set up than a tarp, and when you add the bug netting and the ground cloth, it is comparable in weight.
Either one requires a little more careful site selection than a double walled tent with a bathtub floor.
If you need bug protection, go with the tarptent. If you want a lot more room, go with the tarp. I agree that a tarp is a *little* harder to set up, but not by much if you have a few ways that you are used to setting it up.
I can carry a tarp *and* a tarptent and still be at about 1/2 the weight of my double walled tent.
Jonathan
Jim Adams
03-27-2009, 01:37
Get used to setting up the tarp correctly and you will have no problems.
I have owned / used tarps, double wall tents and single wall tents over the past 30 years in all seasons and weather, at altitude, in swamps, on mountains, on rivers and in a few hurricanes. You need to use what YOU are most comfortable with. Whatever works best for you is what will make your hike more enjoyable. You need to try as many different "structures" as possible then just decide what YOU want.
I use a tarp about 85% of my camping nights and a double wall tent for the rest. Single wall tents are useless and seem to do nothing well and I have sold mine...but that is just the way it works for me.
geek
Tipi Walter
03-27-2009, 06:59
Raymond Estrella/Squall 2: "I turned on my head lamp to find the walls of the Squall almost touching me everywhere. The rain had turned to snow and was stretching the silnylon out quite severely. I started banging off the snow and was treated to a rain shower inside my tent! I got water all over the place." ". . . I will not take it on any trip that I even think will get snow."
Hi Walter,
You would do a better service to people to post a link to a review and let them read the entire thing so they can take away what they want, not what you are trying to manipulate by using snips. Here it is for anyone that would care to read it;
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Shelters/Tarps%20and%20Bivys/Tarptent%20Squall%202/Owner%20Review%20by%20Ray%20Estrella/ (http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Shelters/Tarps%20and%20Bivys/Tarptent%20Squall%202/Owner%20Review%20by%20Ray%20Estrella/)
That incident was something that I never thought would happen. We were caught by two separate freak storms that had not been forecast. Had I been in my Seedhouse SL2 I would have been rained on too if I needed to shake snow off the sides. The Squall was stretching because of the combination of the wetness, the temperature and the weight of the snow.
I still have that Squall 2. I have had some of my best trips with that little tent. And I am selling my Mutha Hubba that I use with my twins to buy the new TT Hogback when it comes out to use with them instead. I plan on buying the new TT Scarp 2 before next winter. Not the actions of a man that is steering folks away from Tarptents.
But thanks for reading my reviews.
Ray
I appreciate Ray Estrella for clarifying and correcting my cherry-picked quotes.
As I said before, every effort should be made to point out the negatives of a tent or shelter system. When someone mentions a tent as being useful, adequate or even great, I then think it's important to find individuals who have, like Ray, used it enough in rough conditions to point out its problems along with its strong points. I am not using somebody else's opinions for personal gain nor do I have a hidden agenda or something against Tarptents.
When anyone recommends a tent wholeheartedly, it stirs my interest to do a bit of research and see if there are any negative comments along with the positive. No tent is perfect, this is a truism when any discussion of a shelter comes up. Backpackers who use a tent repeatedly in all conditions will report the good with the bad--and I am most interested in the "bad" aspects as it shows that a person has used it enough in particular conditions to discover problems. For example, in my research I learned that some Tarptents may not be adequate at unsheltered sites with high winds(Albert K), or used in the snow(with your comment on Post 16: "Tarptents are not made for the snow").
In fact, to discuss these problems means that a person was out during a fierce storm of some kind, or heavy rains with pooling water, or a windstorm on an open bald, or a blizzard at zero degrees. All the tents I've ever used have had problems in such conditions, and I am happy to talk about them. Why wouldn't I? If anything, it shows I at least get out in harsh conditions and get walloped, along with my tent. I have written glowing reports of my current Hilleberg Staika, and consider it to be a near-perfect tent in all conditions. At the same time, I am more than willing to point out its flaws and some poor design features. If all I had to say about the Staika was good, and censored my criticisms, well, I would then become a shill for the Hilleberg brand and not very creditable.
Tipi Walter
Again you are building a straw man argument.
That is, in this case, that because Tarptents (apart from the Scarps) are not designed to be a snow shelter than they should not be considered as a good choice in any condition. You really need to get it through your thick skull that not everybody does winter hiking, in fact the vast majority of people don't. So when someone asks specifically about winter shelters or a shelter that will work in any condition then by any means impart your wisdom upon the poster but refrain from twisting every post into "it will never work for me" scenario.
The OP mentioned the "woods" and not having fun under prolonged rain inside a tarp. He did not ask for the ideal shelter for Tipi Walter and I suspect he couldn't care less what that shelter would be.
Now go to the mirror , look into it and say "the world does not revolve around me" 10 times. Do this for three months and see if you can get over your own greatness.
Franco
Jim Adams
03-28-2009, 03:22
Now go to the mirror , look into it and say "the world does not revolve around me" 10 times. Do this for three months and see if you can get over your own greatness.
Franco
Franco,
Seems as though you need to take your own advice. :-?
Tarptents suck.
They get too much condensation, too much "sag", too much flapping. I watched hiker after hiker on the PCT praising the "advantages" of their tarptents as they constantly fiddled with them just to keep them livable. I saw three hikers around me become so frustrated with them that they sent them home and replaced them with double wall tents that they already owned. To me the idea of single wall tents is a good one that so far has not been done very well....but to each his own.
geek
FamilyGuy
03-28-2009, 09:21
Franco,
Seems as though you need to take your own advice. :-?
Tarptents suck.
They get too much condensation, too much "sag", too much flapping. I watched hiker after hiker on the PCT praising the "advantages" of their tarptents as they constantly fiddled with them just to keep them livable. I saw three hikers around me become so frustrated with them that they sent them home and replaced them with double wall tents that they already owned. To me the idea of single wall tents is a good one that so far has not been done very well....but to each his own.
geek
Yeah - I know 4 people that got rid of their double walled tents and purchased Tarptents and have never looked back.
Double walled tents suck - too heavy, not enough space, and too fiddly with the poles.
Now, if the above seems like a ridiculous post on my part that adds nothing to the ongoing thread, please read your post again to see the similarities.
Let Tipi and Franco work this one out together.
Tipi Walter
03-28-2009, 09:45
Let Tipi and Franco work this one out together.
While we probably will, this is still an open forum on an active thread discussing Tarps vs Tents and so you or Jim Adams or any number of people are free to post opinions, even if they are found to be distasteful or ridiculous. When you say, let us "work this one out together", are you telling Jim Adams to back off and not share his opinions?
FamilyGuy
03-28-2009, 10:10
Not at all. I just have a hard time when a seemingly intelligent thread changes to:
1.) Something 'sucks,' even though the poster has never used said 'something' and
2.) Very little, if any, support to the comment that something 'sucks.' Why? What happened?
I have both used Tarptents and Hillebergs and both have pros and cons. But really, it is like comparing a convertible for the summer and a 4-wheel drive wagon for the winter. Both are exceptional at specific conditions.
daddytwosticks
03-28-2009, 14:13
The arguing and personal attacks are crazy...the discussion is useful! Th OP wanted opinions and he got them. As a section hiker, I get to pick the season, location, and weather for my adventures. These variables dictate wheather I use my tarptent, tarp, or double-walled tent. What's best depends! You all have a nice hike! :)
Bootstrap
03-28-2009, 14:48
I use a tarp about 85% of my camping nights and a double wall tent for the rest.
I'm curious - what double wall do you use?
Jonathan
If anybody cares to look through my previous almost 500 posts (not that many compared to some...) you will find that the vast majority are about gear that works for me and may work for others not about criticising gear that may not work for me but obviously works for others.
The reason I used those strong words with Tipi Walter it is because he has to keep pushing his agenda of "but it does not work in winter .." . Yes great we all understand that, some even hike in shorts but very few do that in winter....
"it stirs my interest to do a bit of research and see if there are any negative comments along with the positive"
To point out the downside of a product is a service and useful to others, but to selectively choose only negative comments from overwhelmingly positive reviews, without saying so, it is not only a disservice, it is intentionally malicious.
(Those reviews are all at BackpackingLight and Gear Test review, or just Google "Edward Ripley-Duggan/Double Rainbow" for example and you will find them. )
As it happens , I had read all of those reviews and mostly agree with them. I can deal with the sagging of silnylon pretty easily, if others cannot, well don't buy a silnylon tent.
The same for condensation. Never had a tent that does not have some condensation at some point. If wiping down occasionally is a problem, don't get a single wall tent.
Pretty silly the comment from Slow too, considering that all of those "negatives" can and do apply to his beloved SMD Lunar Duo.
Not that unusual here at WB, but from "what would you suggest between a tarp and a tent" the thread was hijacked by Tipi Walter to the usual "it will not work for me".
If we all followed Tipi's way we would be going out with a Mystery Ranch G6000, a Hilleberg Staika, a Western Mountaineering Puma and a 3lbs mat. That has a combined weight of about 22 lbs , more than the total weight that many carry for a 3 or 4 days outing.
Again, fantastic if that works for Tipi, but I don't think that pushing others to carry that sort of weight encourages folk to hike.
Franco
SGT Rock
03-28-2009, 16:35
Tipi does this all the time. Saying anything UL around him on the board is like waving a red flag at a bull.
Thanks Sarge, I have noticed; not that I consider my 22oz tent,35 oz pack and 25 oz mat UL, just light but comfy.
The funny thing is that I use, for example, the Contrail not because I want to be UL, but simply because for most of the year that does the job for less weight and packed volume than my other shelters.
Of course it is too heavy for the tarp brigade, still on the ground for hammockers and not "safe" enough for others, so what ?
If someone carried a Staika for me, I would provably sleep comfortably under it, well maybe not when the min temp is 25c (77f)
Always happy to hear about gear the works, whatever it takes to go out and enjoy the outdoors.
To me it is rather amusing to read about how some have given up hiking because of bad knees or and bad backs quoting "I used to regularly carry 50-70lbs but now...." but I am one of those funny fellows that has discovered that the best cure for a hangover is not to drink the night before.
Franco
Jim Adams
03-28-2009, 18:46
I'm curious - what double wall do you use?
Jonathan
Guess I was a little abrupt and harsh there sorry, but yes I have used, did own and still own some single wall tents and tarptents. None of them have worked for me as well as a light doulble wall or a 14oz. 10 x 10 tarp. I guess what really has me fired up is that there are alot of people on WB that simply get down on any newbie that doesn't have a tarptent, the newbie purchases the tarptent and then when out in the field gets disgusted with a tarptent because it won't work for him or her and their hike suffers. This is not an isolated incident, I have seen this many times. I have done product testing and R&D work for a dozen or so manufacturers and realize that not every product is for everyone but if it is a good product it should not be prone to failing. A tarptent may work well for some, a doublewall tent make work for others and a tarp may work for yet another crowd but to make statements that anything else is too heavy or uncomfortable for hiking or thru hiking is just plain bull****.
I tried a hammock once...it kept me dry and warm but I didn't care for it but that was because I wasn't comfortable, therefore I don't get into pro and con discussions about them. Comfort is a subjective topic. I don't recommend tarptents because they fail to work as described far too many times.
My solo double wall is a Hubba. If two of us are hiking together we split the weight and use a 5lb. Kelty Vortex2. It is a 3 season tent that is bombproof and can easily be used for winter with low snow loads. I have nothing to say about Hillebergs because I have never used one but I certainly would like to try one out!
geek
Bootstrap
03-28-2009, 19:22
My solo double wall is a Hubba. If two of us are hiking together we split the weight and use a 5lb. Kelty Vortex2. It is a 3 season tent that is bombproof and can easily be used for winter with low snow loads. I have nothing to say about Hillebergs because I have never used one but I certainly would like to try one out!
Most of my experience is with double wall tents, for the last 5 years I've been using a 5 pound REI Half Dome 2, which is still what I use when sharing a tent. Anything double walled that has room for 2 seems to come very close to 4 pounds, and I don't want to buy an expensive new tent to save just 1 pound. If I found a good double wall tent with plenty of room for two at about 3 pounds and under $200.00, I'd probably consider it.
I've spent a week with a hammock and tarp, very happily, and another week with a tarp and a ground cloth, also very happily.
Just got a Squall 2, and I like it except for the condensation. It's done well with about a week of rain, some of it quite heavy, in my back yard. It helps to use MSR Groundhog stakes and to pitch it really taut, it also helps to add extra stakes to keep the back frame from slipping forward. The tent is small enough that I'm close to the walls, which makes the condensation more of a problem than it would be otherwise, but it's nicely bugproof, and it's less than 2 pounds. If I'm not in a place where bugs are a problem, I like a tarp a lot better because of the extra room and the pitching options.
Still sorting this all out as I add my girlfriend and our kids to the mix ;->
Jonathan
Tipi Walter
03-28-2009, 19:37
I guess what really has me fired up is that there are alot of people on WB that simply get down on any newbie that doesn't have a tarptent, the newbie purchases the tarptent and then when out in the field gets disgusted with a tarptent because it won't work for him or her and their hike suffers. This is not an isolated incident, I have seen this many times.
geek
This is exactly the reason I made my Tarptent post to begin with. After the thread by The Phoenix started, garlic08 mentioned getting a Tarptent and then LIhikers agreed and said, "Tarptent.com is your answer." I sort of saw the same cycle you mentioned repeating itself, and so I got fired up too and as simply as that I wanted to find out why these tents seem to hold sway with so many people and if anyone had anything bad to say about them. I thought if I could counter the overwhelming endorsements with some qualified snippets of criticism, a more realistic view could be shown instead of the usual "100% for the tarptent" crowd. In this way, when a WBer "gets down on any newbie that doesn't have a tarptent", I could offer up at least a bit of tarptent rebuttal.
Yes, very commendable, my point was that you used 10 very satisfied owners (out of 11) to try to prove that they don't work.
Using your rationale I could prove that Obama is a GOP supporter.
What you tried to demonstrate is that Tarptents (and tarp tents) don't work at all, what we agree with is that Tarptents (and tarp tents) don't work for some. ( just like hammocks, tarps, tipis and 7lbs double wall tents)
Franco
ritzhenson
03-28-2009, 20:07
Ok, my vote is ...NIETHER! But then again, I one of those hammock freaks, what do I know?
Tipi Walter
03-28-2009, 20:10
Hey Franco--
On post 16 you said "we have done the mist bit but the leak dripping was an early production problem . . ." and it got me to thinking. Do you work for Tarptent?
Tipi Walter
03-28-2009, 20:29
Ok, my vote is ...NIETHER! But then again, I one of those hammock freaks, what do I know?
AH HA!! HAMMOCKS!! I found some postitive reviews about hammocks:
Billy Furbush had this to say: "I really hate hammocks! They swing gently and it makes me steaming mad!! No trees where I live! Hate 'em. Had one night that was pleasant. The rest of the time they reek!"
Johnny Cornhole wrote: "If I never see another hammock it won't be too soon. I spent two weeks soaken wet and got caught up in cordage and carabiners. Never again. If I see the thing again, I'll run screaming from the woods. BTW, the whole hammock package is pretty light."
Philbert Durwood in his review: "Just got back from a winter trip where the trees popped and the hammock ropes froze to the trunks. Got frostbite trying to remove ropes. Hammock flipped over on me and tossed me into the snow while I was sleeping and I woke up with hypothermia. Hate em. Gotta say though, I really like the choice of colors it comes in."
Johnny Bottoms Rednotch: "My girlfriend loves her hammock and other men pay special attention to her when they see her with a hammock. I hate em myself, would never use them. I've tried to convince her to never use hers. We fight. No hammock is a good hammock in my opinion. My girlfriend likes her hammock, though."
So yeah, if you follow just the bold statements, you'd think these guys really liked their hammocks, when in fact . . . . . . .
Henry posted about that at BPL and provably here too.
I happen to know Henry mostly because I like and use his shelters. However I happen to know and correspond with a couple of other tent designers and no I don't get anything out of it apart from the satisfaction of seeing some of my ideas used on tents that are in production.
Just in case you wonder, I am also aware of several changes that Ron Moak has made to some of his shelters and no I don't work for him either , neither know him but I am very well aware of who he is and what his designs look like...
Franco
AH HA!! HAMMOCKS!! I found some postitive reviews about hammocks:
Billy Furbush had this to say: "I really hate hammocks! They swing gently and it makes me steaming mad!! No trees where I live! Hate 'em. Had one night that was pleasant. The rest of the time they reek!"
Johnny Cornhole wrote: "If I never see another hammock it won't be too soon. I spent two weeks soaken wet and got caught up in cordage and carabiners. Never again. If I see the thing again, I'll run screaming from the woods. BTW, the whole hammock package is pretty light."
Philbert Durwood in his review: "Just got back from a winter trip where the trees popped and the hammock ropes froze to the trunks. Got frostbite trying to remove ropes. Hammock flipped over on me and tossed me into the snow while I was sleeping and I woke up with hypothermia. Hate em. Gotta say though, I really like the choice of colors it comes in."
Johnny Bottoms Rednotch: "My girlfriend loves her hammock and other men pay special attention to her when they see her with a hammock. I hate em myself, would never use them. I've tried to convince her to never use hers. We fight. No hammock is a good hammock in my opinion. My girlfriend likes her hammock, though."
So yeah, if you follow just the bold statements, you'd think these guys really liked their hammocks, when in fact . . . . . . .
Are these fictional hammocking accounts?
I've never gotten wet or been dumped out of mine.
I wouldn't want my wife to use one if we were hiking together for obvious reasons.
I consider hammocks the most comfortable means of sleeping in the woods for 3 seasons.
SGT Rock
03-28-2009, 21:54
AH HA!! HAMMOCKS!! I found some postitive reviews about hammocks:
Billy Furbush had this to say: "I really hate hammocks! They swing gently and it makes me steaming mad!! No trees where I live! Hate 'em. Had one night that was pleasant. The rest of the time they reek!"
Johnny Cornhole wrote: "If I never see another hammock it won't be too soon. I spent two weeks soaken wet and got caught up in cordage and carabiners. Never again. If I see the thing again, I'll run screaming from the woods. BTW, the whole hammock package is pretty light."
Philbert Durwood in his review: "Just got back from a winter trip where the trees popped and the hammock ropes froze to the trunks. Got frostbite trying to remove ropes. Hammock flipped over on me and tossed me into the snow while I was sleeping and I woke up with hypothermia. Hate em. Gotta say though, I really like the choice of colors it comes in."
Johnny Bottoms Rednotch: "My girlfriend loves her hammock and other men pay special attention to her when they see her with a hammock. I hate em myself, would never use them. I've tried to convince her to never use hers. We fight. No hammock is a good hammock in my opinion. My girlfriend likes her hammock, though."
So yeah, if you follow just the bold statements, you'd think these guys really liked their hammocks, when in fact . . . . . . .
That was a lot of effort to prove a few people don't like hammocks. Lets see you go find some reviews of your gear where people think it sucks. I know, everyone loves your stuff.:rolleyes:
And no, I don't plan to waste my time doing it.
So who exactly has an agenda? I remember recently you posting how terrible it is when people say you do have an anti-UL agenda. But your actions speak pretty darn loud.
SGT Rock
03-28-2009, 21:55
Are these fictional hammocking accounts?
I've never gotten wet or dumped out of mine.
I wouldn't want my wife to use one if we were hiking together for obvious reasons. And I've been cold in one too.
I consider hammocks the most comfortable means of sleeping in the woods for 3 seasons.
Tipi has never used one of them. But he knows they have to suck because he wouldn't use one. Anyone that does use them is not actually enjoying themselves, but fooling themselves they are. He will keep trying until you stop deluding yourself.;)
This is exactly the reason I made my Tarptent post to begin with. After the thread by The Phoenix started, garlic08 mentioned getting a Tarptent and then LIhikers agreed and said, "Tarptent.com is your answer." I sort of saw the same cycle you mentioned repeating itself, and so I got fired up too and as simply as that I wanted to find out why these tents seem to hold sway with so many people and if anyone had anything bad to say about them. I thought if I could counter the overwhelming endorsements with some qualified snippets of criticism, a more realistic view could be shown instead of the usual "100% for the tarptent" crowd. In this way, when a WBer "gets down on any newbie that doesn't have a tarptent", I could offer up at least a bit of tarptent rebuttal.
You cant win ...one way or the other.Look up some of snow loading pics...that he has backed.:-?
Tipi Walter
03-28-2009, 23:16
Are these fictional hammocking accounts?
I've never gotten wet or dumped out of mine.
I wouldn't want my wife to use one if we were hiking together for obvious reasons. And I've been cold in one too.
I consider hammocks the most comfortable means of sleeping in the woods for 3 seasons.
Totally fictional and made up. Tried to make a point, apparently missed. How I'm so quick to blow off gear recommendations and quick to attack them, how I cherry pick snippets of reviews to suit my preconceived notions even though in reality the whole review is in fact opposite, etc. I mean, c'mon, Johnny Cornhole?
Tipi Walter
03-29-2009, 00:01
Lets see you go find some reviews of your gear where people think it sucks. I know, everyone loves your stuff.:rolleyes:
There aren't a whole lot of reviews of my tent out there, maybe around 5 total of the Staika, but I'd be tickled pink to find and read the negative ones. I'm probably one of the few people who has written the most criticisms of both the Staika and the Nammatj 3 on the internet, and yet I still carry them and enjoy using them. I would never try to cram them down anyone's throat but would gladly point out their numerous flaws. I wrote some criticisms of the two tents on both Trailspace, Practical Backpacking and numerous not-so-glowing paragraphs in Trail Journals. There's a lot to not like about my tents, but they're just replaceable pieces of gear and open to useful critique like any other piece of gear.
If I really wanted everyone to love my stuff, well, I'd hide behind the brand name and discourage any amount of criticisms, whole reviews or snippets. I might recommend a four season tent over a tarptent or a hammock, but in doing so I am not specifically recommending my Hilleberg Staika above all others. I'm not so emotionally invested in a brand or a piece of gear to drive me into making personal attacks or overly defensive responses. Hammock vs four season tent? I'll stick with the tent and point out what I see as flaws in the hammock system and welcome someone to do the same against the tent.
Anyway, the whole hammock thing was a joke, a joke on how quoting something out of context may be, granted, a bit misleading. I can see some of Franco's point, in other words. I just never thought the hammock crowd would get so wound up over a few words said in jest. I mean, who the heck is Billy Furbush??
SGT Rock
03-29-2009, 00:09
I guess I see things the other way. Ask me about your tent and I will say it looks heavy, but beyond that I have no opinion about it because I have no experience with it. I steer away from theads where people ask about using tents I don't know about, or when I do add in information it is for products I think are similar to what they want.
On the other hand you love to point out how bad stuff you have no experience with is. You seem to go out of your way to find flaws with stuff you have never used and never will.
I wonder if you see the irony in that.
I currently have in my shelter arsenal: a Henessey UL A-Sym hammock, three different tarps(not the same as tarptents, Sil Nylon, Spinnaker, and Cuben fiber fabrics, various sizes), two different bivies made by Mountain Laurel Designs(Momentum, EVent fabrics), two different tents(Gossamer Gear-The One(single walled), Eureka Backcountry I(double walled)), and a Henry Shires Sublite tarptent, which is essentially a single wall tent despite the sometimes confusion that is caused because the word tarp is part of the word tarptent. I will borrow a 4 season Integral Designs or Black Diamond mountaineering double walled style tent if I think conditions warrant it. I have weathered many nights in Henry's shelters when they were pitched properly(guyed out correctly and foot into the wind) and when extra care is taken to find suitable protected campsites. I have experienced light snowfalls(6 in or less) in a Rainbow several times. Also, experienced 40 mph winds on and off during more than a week while sheltering in a Contrail. Have sheltered in a Contrail during many day after day driving rains. After 4 days of solid rain while inside the Contrail my gear was still dry inside the tarptent. BUT, in all those cases I sited my camps in protected locations. I found out the hard way that learning better campsite selection decreased or sometimes eliminated condensation issues. This applies to double wall tents as well as single walled. There are people who thru-hike using just a tarptent, double walled tent, bivy, bivy/tarp combo, or tarp. Sometimes, on the AT, I've witnessed thruhikers that used manmade shelters the whole 2200 mile length. I don't know how you feel about manmade shelters but since I notice you are an AT thru-hiker in planning don't forget that you have manmade shelters located on the AT about every 8-10 miles as an added option that can be brought into play. On the CDT one recent hiker did a yoyo using mostly a tarp as a shelter. I thru-hiked the majority of the PCT last year(all but three weeks) with just a water resistant Momentum bivy as my only means of shelter.
Books have been written on just tarp camping. Seek a few out or at least do some reading up on books containing a chapter on tarps. If you think you might want to try one out buy a cheapie tarp and see how it works out for you. Make sure you experience at least one rainy or buggy night in a tarp before you come to a decision. And, also realize I've used tarps for long distance thru-hiking under the same rainy, snowy conditions as I used the tarptents. Have spent many very buggy nights under tarps too. There are ways to work around all these issues.
There are solutions and shelters for nearly every condition encountered and hiking style. All these shelters have their time and place, but I've found no "perfect" shelter for all conditions or experience levels. And I, like Sirclimbsalot, frankly don't think anyone can tell you what's right for you all the time. I think the best that you can do is find out what's right for you right now.
FamilyGuy
03-29-2009, 03:49
Johnny Cornhole is my nickname.....
Actually, Hammocks work exceptionally well above tree line.
sloopjonboswell
03-29-2009, 04:54
buy a blue 8' x 10' at your local hardware store, get a tyvek ground cloth and carry 3 stakes.
Bootstrap
03-29-2009, 09:24
Books have been written on just tarp camping. Seek a few out or at least do some reading up on books containing a chapter on tarps.
I've read the Sgt Rock site and several other web sites, are there books you particularly recommend? It seems fairly simple for the basic pitches and site selection ...
Have spent many very buggy nights under tarps too. There are ways to work around all these issues.
What do you recommend?
Jonathan
Quote:
Have spent many very buggy nights under tarps too. There are ways to work around all these issues. .
What do you recommend?
Netting such as the Serenity shelter from either Mountain Laurel Designs or Six Moon Designs
mister krabs
03-29-2009, 13:30
best tarp setup ever is the one in this video tarp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkBeZqXU4zk), add a second short pole in the back and it's darn near perfect for most situations. If needed, you can make a "door" with a very small binder clip holding it closed.
John Klein
03-29-2009, 16:49
buy a blue 8' x 10' at your local hardware store, get a tyvek ground cloth and carry 3 stakes.
Does that mean you stake down 3 corners and raise the 4th with a pole (or tie it off to a tree)?
SGT Rock
03-29-2009, 16:55
That is a good way to make one sort of tarp shelter. Stake the corner oposite where you want the pole to the wind. Then stake the other two out. Finally raise the pole and tie it off to a tree or something. It sometimes helps to put a pole inside as a secondary support.
SGT Rock
03-29-2009, 17:02
Let me add that by "into the wind" I don't mean set this up in a hard blow. I'd probably use this in low to moderate winds when expecting rain. In higher winds I would go with a set up that requires about 8 stakes and one pole where you put the pole in the center of one long side and put the other long side against the ground to the ind.
Bootstrap
03-29-2009, 18:44
For what it's worth, we've had gusts up to 28 mph today, I've had a tarptent and a tarp outside. This morning I replaced the tarptent's stakes with MSR Groundhog stakes, because it had blown down, but it's stayed up all day.
I also had a tarp up in the trapezoid pitch, no problems there at all. Probably would have been smarter to have it lower to the ground, but I'm trying pitches I use regularly when I can get some tricky weather to test with.
Jonathan
The buggiest areas I've been in with mosquitos, gnats, and black flies have been the Everglades mangroves in Fla, the Sierras, Oregon, and Hawaii. Haven't been to Alaska or Montana yet during black fly season though. I often carry a sleeping bag just barely warm enough or even a bit on the not warm enough side so I have had no problem sleeping under a tarp with a Sea to Summit headnet and my sleeping bag zipped up almost all the way. And, during the day I will sometimes hike with the headnet so it does double duty. I find some headnets are hot to wear and/or offer decreased visibilty to a pt. that I'm not comfortable with. The Sea to Summit headnet works best for me. All my tarps have hanging loops sewn into the ridge on the inside ceiling. I've made a 4 x 6 Tulle fabric mosquito net that I drape teepee style from one of the hangings loops with the tiniest plasti snap and a 18 in piece of the lightest wt stretch/bungee cord I could find. REI or marine hardware stores carry this kind of UL bungee cord and little plastic snaps. I sewed two pockets on two of the corners of the 4 x 6 Tulle that accept a stone or a bit of wt. These pockets are located between my hips and knees. On the other two corners I've attached a 2 ft piece each of the UL bungee cord. The bungees attache to two of the tarp stakes near my head. If I need to get out from under this setup I just flip one of the rock corners in the rear end of the Tulle over to one side. Total wt of this setup is 2 1/2 oz. Cost is less than $10. It's not the strongest netting; it's fragile but with a little care it has lasted me several hikes in the Sierras and in HI. It's still going. It doesn't have a hole or rip yet. For a slightly heavier and durable design you could substitute the lightest wt. Nanoseeum netting. I also like that if bugs aren't an issue or not too big of an issue I can leave this setup at home. I always have the headnet. I also use this Tulle setup when bivying. I can use a low hanging branch or if some use trekking poles they could attache the bungee to them in a buggy situation without needing the headnet or tarp. In areas that I hike where the ground comes alive at night with huge centipedes, rats, rodents, palmetto bugs(cockroaches), snakes, ants, etc like in Hawaii(no snakes in HI though), Costa Rica, or even Fla I like to get off the ground and prefer a hammock.
Bootstrap
03-30-2009, 08:52
For what it's worth, we've had gusts up to 28 mph today, I've had a tarptent and a tarp outside. This morning I replaced the tarptent's stakes with MSR Groundhog stakes, because it had blown down, but it's stayed up all day.
I also had a tarp up in the trapezoid pitch, no problems there at all. Probably would have been smarter to have it lower to the ground, but I'm trying pitches I use regularly when I can get some tricky weather to test with.
Peak gusts hit 39. No problems.
Jonathan