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Bootstrap
03-24-2009, 16:56
The other thing I picked up on, reading between the lines of your post, is carrying 'H2O!' With experience, this time of year, you should have to carry very little, if any, water. Check your trail data and maps and only carry water if it's several miles between sources.

I suppose people carry widely different amounts of water. I would rarely pass a water hole without topping up to at least one liter, probably two. When I see water, I think a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

What about the rest of y'all? What guidelines do you use for how much water to carry?

Jonathan

Manwich
03-24-2009, 17:04
I've got a 3 liter platypus i fill up at the beginning of the day. All I need for one day. I camp where I can get water, use all of my water during cooking and rehydrating by days end then refill in the morn (or at night before i go to sleep in case water source freezes)

Tipi Walter
03-24-2009, 17:10
This is a very subjective thing. If you know the place you're backpacking, hardly any water needs to be carried(southeast backpacking, not desert). On the other hand, in drought conditions like we had last year many known springs can be dry but still if you know the area well you'll know where to tank up.

New, unexplored trails w/o guide or data books require more water humpage, especially in dry conditions. I always carry more water when I go into a new area. Then again, speed hikers who pull 20-30 mile days often don't carry much water since they are making so much distance and they pass numerous water sources. Cameling up, I believe they call it. Not relevant in the desert or some western trails.

The AT in NC/TN has numerous water sources and humpage is determined by choice/drought. If a person just does 7 miles a day, water is more of a concern for that night's camp. If a person does 20 miles a day, they'll be three times the opportunity to tank up. The map/book is helpful in this regard. And some common sense.

Since the AT follows ridgelines alot, there's many unseen and unknown spring seeps below the top and down below the gaps that will have water, even though nothing is written about it. I found a campsite south of Cable Gap shelter once somewhere around Hogback Gap and it was a pretty little cleared knob perfect for a tent. Absolutely dry? Seemed like it. I saw a bunch of jewelweed growing down in the hollow and on a from-camp bushwack found water down the hill in the gap. The stuff could be anywhere.

Pokey2006
03-24-2009, 17:10
All depends on water sources, weather and terrain. Moderate terrain, water sources every few miles, cool weather -- I won't carry any at all. Or just half a water bottle. Hot, with water sources 10 miles or more apart, or on a long climb with few sources, I'll carry a full water bottle, plus a second full water bottle. So maybe between 1-2 liters.

Day hiking, I'll usually just put 1-2 liters in my platy so I don't have to fuss with water at all.

Lyle
03-24-2009, 17:12
Typically, I start the day with between 1.5 and 2 liters. I generally check the remaining at lunch and decide then if more will be needed, based on temp, consumption, availability during the afternoon.

One problem with topping off at frequent sources is the increased possibility of getting "bad" water. Confining yourself to fewer sources means fewer chances of illness. That is, if you even worry about this, some don't ever, some only sometimes.

Big Dawg
03-24-2009, 17:12
I usually carry between 1 & 2 quarts, depending on availability.

Pokey2006
03-24-2009, 17:14
One problem with topping off at frequent sources is the increased possibility of getting "bad" water. Confining yourself to fewer sources means fewer chances of illness. That is, if you even worry about this, some don't ever, some only sometimes.

Naw, I actually think drinking a little from here, a little from there reduces those chances. I figure you're more likely to get sick from drinking a lot of water from a contaminated source, then just a little from that one, mixed in with a little from another source.

My filter-in-a-bottle helps, too.

Kirby
03-24-2009, 17:15
On the AT, under "normal" conditions, you can easily carry a liter. My hiking companion got me onto carrying two liters in two one liter gatorade bottles. Every time we came to a water source, we'd check to see how our water levels were doing.

Tipi Walter
03-24-2009, 17:19
And it depends on where you want to set up for the night. And the time of day. If I'm on the AT I'll keep my eyeballs peeled for the next water source at around 2-3pm. Between then and 6 or 7 I hoped to have found water for my night's camp, which will not be at a shelter but perhaps within a couple hundred yards of a shelter(of course I don't rely on the guide book 100%). There's usually water at shelters. Does anyone know of an AT shelter that doesn't have water?? Most of them do.

Lyle
03-24-2009, 17:19
Naw, I actually think drinking a little from here, a little from there reduces those chances. I figure you're more likely to get sick from drinking a lot of water from a contaminated source, then just a little from that one, mixed in with a little from another source.

My filter-in-a-bottle helps, too.


I believe a Microbiologist would find fault with your reasoning, but most of it is probably in our minds anyway. I believe we are much more likely to get sick from poor hygiene than from bad water.

Pokey2006
03-24-2009, 17:41
There's usually water at shelters. Does anyone know of an AT shelter that doesn't have water?? Most of them do.

I recall some shelters where the water was difficult to get to. In which case, plan ahead and pick up water at an easier-to-reach source a few miles beforehand. That Peter's Mtn. shelter in Pa. is one example.

bigcranky
03-24-2009, 17:59
The shelters that don't have water are well marked in the guidebooks and the databook. There is usually water within a mile or so on either side of those shelters.

Pokey is right, though, that there are many shelters where the water is far away and steeply downhill.

Manwich
03-24-2009, 18:03
if i remember correctly, west mountain shelter in Ny has a pretty ridiculous water situation. In order to get up to the shelter you gotta scale the nearby Timp Torne and then Descend to the shelter, and if you want water, you've gotta descend another 600ft or so.

Pokey2006
03-24-2009, 18:16
And some water sources dry up when you don't expect them to. I remember a shelter in PA, going down to spring No. 1 to get water. Not a bad hike. But it was dry. So I continued down to spring No. 2. Starting to get a ways down, about halfway down the mountain, but still doable. And dry. So on to spring No. 3, where, thankfully, there was plenty of water. But it was also at the very bottom of the mountain. Dang.

darkage
03-24-2009, 18:20
Sounds like bake oven knob pokey ..... In the heat of the summer i'll pack 5 liter's ... 3 in the spring/fall just cause i drink alot.

Pokey2006
03-24-2009, 18:28
Sounds like bake oven knob pokey ..... In the heat of the summer i'll pack 5 liter's ... 3 in the spring/fall just cause i drink alot.

Yes it was.

PA is a good place to increase your water load.

darkage
03-24-2009, 18:47
Yes it was.

PA is a good place to increase your water load.

I know the trail between port clinton and DWG like the back of my hand ... I knew right away ...

But being local i know about those areas .... so i guess the point is ..

Have with you an extra bladder or bottles to haul extra water ... Ridgerunner's atleast in my area are very good at posting notes about water sources at trailheads and shelters .... Like i said, i carry a 3L bladder that doesn't always need to be filled .... and 2 1L bottles .. and for camp i carry a 6L collaspable water container for cooking/dishes/showers and general cleanup as well as fill my bladder/bottles in the morning to continue on ...

having the means to carry the water you need is more important than actually carrying it .. I may go 20-40 miles carrying 2L ... then need to fill up the bladder for the next 15 ... I've been in the ER with dehydration ... its not fun, i've also had 5 kidney stones ... i can't afford to dehydrate myself on the trail .... Just things to think about .. Hike on!

SGT Rock
03-24-2009, 18:48
I suppose people carry widely different amounts of water. I would rarely pass a water hole without topping up to at least one liter, probably two. When I see water, I think a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

What about the rest of y'all? What guidelines do you use for how much water to carry?

Jonathan
I normally only carry about a liter of water. When it gets to about 1/2, then I start looking for a place to top off. When I find that place I kill the rest of my liter and refill the bottle. Then start treating that liter. By the time I am thirsty it has been more than a 1/2 hour.

Climate and sources dictate though.

garlic08
03-24-2009, 18:50
There are some rules of thumb for water needs. A common one is 1 liter per 5 miles plus 1.5 per night of camping. That's very general and probably on the wet side. I know that in moderate temps I can go with as little as 1 liter per 10 miles and 1 liter per camp.

darkage
03-24-2009, 18:55
There are some rules of thumb for water needs. A common one is 1 liter per 5 miles plus 1.5 per night of camping. That's very general and probably on the wet side. I know that in moderate temps I can go with as little as 1 liter per 10 miles and 1 liter per camp.

Thats about right for me also cept in 90-100 degree days ... Some area's around here are 10-15 miles between water so thats why i carry the 3L bladder + bottles in case they would be needed ... bottles are also good in camp when grabing water from the camp bladder ...

daddytwosticks
03-24-2009, 19:19
I sweat alot and drink alot of water. I usually carry about 60 oz. (3 -20 oz gatoraide bottles) depending on what section of the trail. The most I've ever carried was 80 plus oz while hiking between Hawk Mtn shelter and Justis Creek...glad I did...that June day was very hot! Figuring out how much water to carry, or not carry, seems like one of the hardest things for me to get down on my quest to lighten up. :)

Doctari
03-25-2009, 17:27
On a moderatly warm day, (under 70) 1 ltr will get me 4 miles. Any warmer than that I try to carry 1 L per 2 miles if I can.If it's cold I also carry more because usually: cold = dry air = more water used. At least for me.

Summit
03-25-2009, 18:22
In 35 years and well over 5000 miles of backpacking, I can count on one hand how many times I've carried more than 1 liter of water. I drink a lot of water in camp to super-hydrate and can usually do my 10-15 miles a day on 1 liter (if no water is available between camps), which I don't have to do very often. As Tipi said, if you know the area and the sources, often I will drink my fill at each source and maybe carry 1/3 liter as a long ascent finish reward between sources.

A liter weighs approximately 2.2 lbs so some of you are carrying 5 to almost 7 lbs of water starting out the day, when you might come to another source within a few miles of your start. Seems a little counter-productive if you've painstakingly cut the handle off your toothbrush and such to reduce your pack weight. Inexperienced hikers tend to carry more water than experienced hikers driven by the paranoia of running out of water. Overcoming that is the single most significant way to reduce your pack weight. The next most significant way is to eat your 5 days worth of food the first night! :eek:

PS: I don't bring all this up in an anti-HYOH frame of view. We all tend to develop habits that, without thinking them out, run counter-productive to our other efforts. Many hikers go to great lengths and expense to buy super light-weight gear, leave nice-to-have things behind due to weight consciousness, and then tank up with way too much water weight.

PSS: I very seldom dry camp. I like water and lots of it in camp, so I bed down close to water.

daddytwosticks
03-25-2009, 19:14
Summit...guilty as charged! :)

hootyhoo
03-25-2009, 19:26
I might carry too much. If I know when the next water will be I can get what I need. When heading to camp I will sometimes carry 5 or 6 liters. I use it to cook and drink. My dog drinks a lot at camp - less on the trail, but he only likes filtered, or bleached - he won't drink potable aqua and he does not drink much aquamira water. I use the left over camp water for breakfast, coffee, drinking, the dog and trail water to start the day.
It always varies - if I know where water sources are I have much more control. If I pass water before starting a climb to a ridge trail I will get enough to get through to the next morning - a minimum amount for a day, a night and mileage for the next day would be 4 liters. It slows me down, but I eat and quench my thirst.
I ran out of water at Silers and luckily a storm blew through - I tossed my poncho on the ground at the edge of the shelter - and started catching run-off in my pot at the same time - after 30 minutes of poncho pooling and pot grabbing for water I had a full liter - it got me through the night.

darkage
03-25-2009, 19:41
Yeah, i've run out of water myself and it wasn't pretty ... having had 5 kidney stones i don't like kidney pain ... Like i've said in previous posts ... 3L bladder will get me from source to source 90% of the time ... 2L of water every 5 miles or so on warmer than normal days ... With that said, the bottles maybe filled and hike on with an empty bladder, next sign might read ... no water source after this one for 15 miles ... oh no! ... So i'll fill the 3L bladder + 2 1L bottles ... on i go.

Point is, since i can't stop the paranoid issues of running out of water ... I pay attention closely to trail signs left by rangers/trailrunners and fellow hikers looking out for others and judge how much i need for that section and go with it .... Summit is right but i found my method to get the best of both worlds. =]

johnnybgood
03-25-2009, 19:52
Staying hydrated is extremely important for me because I too seem to sweat alot and also have had a long history of kidney stones.
Becoming dehydrated is a catalyst for causing kidney stones.
If I know where water sources are , like hiking in Shenandoah , I'll be less apt to carry more than a liter.

SGT Rock
03-25-2009, 19:52
Yeah, i've run out of water myself and it wasn't pretty ... having had 5 kidney stones i don't like kidney pain ... Like i've said in previous posts ... 3L bladder will get me from source to source 90% of the time ... 2L of water every 5 miles or so on warmer than normal days ... With that said, the bottles maybe filled and hike on with an empty bladder, next sign might read ... no water source after this one for 15 miles ... oh no! ... So i'll fill the 3L bladder + 2 1L bottles ... on i go.

Point is, since i can't stop the paranoid issues of running out of water ... I pay attention closely to trail signs left by rangers/trailrunners and fellow hikers looking out for others and judge how much i need for that section and go with it .... Summit is right but i found my method to get the best of both worlds. =]I've had kidney stones - never on the trail. They suck hard. I've been through it a few times.

That said, I have only run out of water a couple of times on the trail, and that was only for short periods of time. I still only carry about 1 liter most of the time.

Tipi Walter
03-25-2009, 20:18
I ran out of water at Silers and luckily a storm blew through - I tossed my poncho on the ground at the edge of the shelter - and started catching run-off in my pot at the same time - after 30 minutes of poncho pooling and pot grabbing for water I had a full liter - it got me through the night.

This reminds me of a trip I did last year in the drought when I humped up the Brookshire/BMT to Sled Runner Gap and did a half mile sidetrail to the top of Beaverdam Bald to wait for Mowgli, Two Speed, Generoll and others. It was bone dry all around and I was completely out of water. Thirsty. While I was waiting under the shade of a tree a thunderstorm passed thru so I covered my pack and in about 10 minutes I had enough water pooling on a dent in the pack cover where I was able to quench my thirst. About 20 long sips later the storm passed over and the crew arrived.







A liter weighs approximately 2.2 lbs so some of you are carrying 5 to almost 7 lbs of water starting out the day, when you might come to another source within a few miles of your start. Seems a little counter-productive if you've painstakingly cut the handle off your toothbrush and such to reduce your pack weight. Inexperienced hikers tend to carry more water than experienced hikers driven by the paranoia of running out of water. :eek:

PS: I don't bring all this up in an anti-HYOH frame of view. We all tend to develop habits that, without thinking them out, run counter-productive to our other efforts. Many hikers go to great lengths and expense to buy super light-weight gear, leave nice-to-have things behind due to weight consciousness, and then tank up with way too much water weight.

PSS: I very seldom dry camp. I like water and lots of it in camp, so I bed down close to water.

All good points. The luxury of bedding down next to water is just that, a luxury, and one I always try to include in my nightly camps. On my most recent trip I was up at around 5000 feet camping and saw an energetic fellow pull in after a 3000 foot climb carrying a supernice new pale green Osprey pack and a whole new slew of lightweight gear. He said his total gear weight was around 20 pounds. Then he said he carried almost 3 liters of water! And the trail he walked was next to a creek the whole way. Weekend backpackers sometimes leave home with "known" water and are reluctant to ingest "forest" water, they sort of want to stay on the "safe side". Of course, this would only work for a one night excursion, any more and you'd have to start using the springs.

SGT Rock
03-25-2009, 20:23
All good points. The luxury of bedding down next to water is just that, a luxury, and one I always try to include in my nightly camps. On my most recent trip I was up at around 5000 feet camping and saw an energetic fellow pull in after a 3000 foot climb carrying a supernice new pale green Osprey pack and a whole new slew of lightweight gear. He said his total gear weight was around 20 pounds. Then he said he carried almost 3 liters of water! And the trail he walked was next to a creek the whole way. Weekend backpackers sometimes leave home with "known" water and are reluctant to ingest "forest" water, they sort of want to stay on the "safe side". Of course, this would only work for a one night excursion, any more and you'd have to start using the springs.
I love camping by water. One of my favorite places to stay. Balds are a treat too, but you gotta plan for that - either know where the water is, or go ahead and carry in some from the closest source.

Summit
03-25-2009, 20:55
I don't necessarily camp right up close to water all the time. With my collapsible 2 1/2 reliance jug, I'll sometimes camp at a pristine site, like a bald, and go up to a mile after dropping my pack to bring back water . . . a 'dry camp?" Yes, but with 2 1/2 gallons of water it ain't really! :)

I just won't carry my pack AND that 2 1/2 gallon water jug at the same time. Actually I did, fall a year ago, due to drought. Carried it strapped to my pack (one of the less than 5 times I've carried more than a liter) from Plumorchard Shelter to Bly Gap in order to get in the miles I needed to that day. Reports from folks going SOBO said the water at Bly Gap was not flowing. In doing so, I pulled a leg muscle that slowed me down for two days. I'll alter my itenerary before I ever try that again! :eek:

Pokey2006
03-25-2009, 21:06
I've found it's a lot easier to camp at dry spots since switching over to freezer bag cooking. Especially if you rehydrate your food, camel up and clean yourself up before getting to camp. There's no cooking to do, no dishes to clean. All you have to carry is some drinking water for overnight, and enough to make coffee in the a.m.